The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Hoops Tonight - Kevin Durant & Suns, NBA Finals or Bust? Giannis & Bucks favorites to win East?

Episode Date: February 23, 2023

Jason Timpf answers five questions heading into the second half of the NBA season. Will Giannis Antetokounmpo and the Milwaukee Bucks win the Eastern Conference over Jayson Tatum's Boston Celtics and Joel Embiid's Philadelphia 76ers? Are Luka Doncic and Kyrie Irving destined for failure with the Dallas Mavericks? And is it Finals or bust for Kevin Durant in his first playoff run with Chris Paul and the Phoenix Suns? #volume #HerdSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. Another podcast from some SNL, late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter.

Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the IHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque.

Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, what's good, y'all? You're listening to Learn the Hard Way with your favorite therapist and host Kear Games.

This space is about black men's experiences, having honest conversations that it's really not safe to have anywhere, but you're having them with a licensed professional who knows what he's doing. How many men carry a suit or armor? It signals to the world that you're not to be played with. And just because you have the capability that does not mean that you need to. Listen and learn the hard way on the IHard radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. The volume. It's Hoops Tonight presented by Fandul. The NBA season is kicking into gear and there's no better place to get in on the action than with Fandul.

The app is safe and secure. Getting your money out is super easy. You can jump into the action at any time during the game with live betting. and I love building those same game parlays. And Fandual is now live in Ohio, so use promo code Jason T and download the Fandul app today to start making every moment more. 21 plus in select states, gambling problem, call 1-800 gambler,

or visit fanduel.com slash RG in Colorado, Iowa, Michigan, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Illinois, Tennessee, Virginia, and Ohio. Called 1-800 Next Step, or text, Next Step to 533442 in Arizona. Call 1-8-88-78-9-7-7-77 or visit c-cpg.org slash chat in Connecticut. Call 1-8009 with it in Indiana. Visit KSgamblinghelp.com in Kansas. Call 1-877-7-750 stop in L.A. Visit www.md-Gamblinghelp.org in Maryland.

dial 1-8778-8-Hope-N-Y or text Hope-N-Y to 467-369 in New York. Call 1-800-5-22-4-7-0 in Wyoming or visit www.w.w. www.1-800 gambler.net in West Virginia. All right, welcome to Hoops tonight, presented by FanDuel here at the Volume. Happy Wednesday, everybody. I hope all of you guys are having a great week so far. We've got a fun show for you guys today. my buddy, Carson, come on.

And we are going to hit on the five biggest questions for the second half of the NBA season. I'm going to talk a lot about the teams near the top of the league. And then we have a little bit of an NBA draft topic at the end as well. Carson's always amazing with the draft. So I'm excited to get into that a little bit. You guys know the drill before we get started. Subscribe to the volumes YouTube channel so you don't miss any more of our videos. Follow me on Twitter at underscore Jason LT.

So you guys don't miss any show announcements. and if for whatever reason you guys miss one of these shows and you can't get back over to YouTube to finish, don't forget you can find them wherever you get your podcasts under hoops tonight. And last but not least, you guys have heard me talk about Game Time, the fastest growing ticketing app in the United States. If you're looking to get out to any NBA, NHL, or even a college basketball game, or a concert or a comedy show, Game Time has amazing last minute deals on tickets to all of these. I personally am very excited in the next couple of months to get up to Phoenix to check out the suns. They're right up the road for me, about an hour and a half. And the sons have never, I was talking with some of my friends the other

day, and I'm not sure that the sons have ever had a star nearly as big as Kevin Durant playing for them. Charles Barkley is my best guess. But even when I get to like Steve Nash and Amari Stottemeyer, I'm not sure that we've had somebody that's this big of a deal playing right up the street from us. So I will be getting on game time. and getting a ticket to a son's game very soon. I want you guys to check the app out because it's super easy to use. You're going to get a good deal. You're going to know exactly where your seat is.

Overall, it really is a great experience. No matter where you live, get out and have some fun this week. Download the GameTime app. Enter your email and redeem code Hoops for $20 off your first purchase. Terms apply. Again, enter your email and the code Hoops. That's H-O-O-P-S for $20 off. Download game time today.

Last-minute tickets. lowest price guaranteed. All right, we're going to bring my guy Carson on. I got to meet Carson in person finally at the Volumes's yearly party up at the Super Bowl a couple weeks ago. And you guys will be stunned to find out that Carson is an enormous human being, almost as tall as I am. I tried to get him to come play in my men's league team,

but he told me he's had a thrice dislocated kneecap. So it wasn't going to happen. But dude, it was really good to meet you in person the other day. We've done a lot of work in the past, and I'm excited to talk some basketball with you today, man. How are you? I'm great, Jason. Yeah, that was a lot of fun.

And I will say, I think you rounded me up a little bit. I mean, I pulled up. You told me I was 6.5. I'm about 6.3 and a half, you know, no shoes, not my NBA measurement. But I appreciate that. And yeah, it's great to see you. Yeah, man. So I'm excited to get into, I mean, I will say, unequivocally,

this is the most excited that I've been for a stretch run of the NBA in a long time. the league feels wide open. A bunch of teams that, a team that I root for in the Lakers has made some moves and has made themselves a little bit more serious here down the stretch. And they're going to be fun to watch. The Warriors are going to be playing at the absolute peak of their capability to try to make up ground.

And at the top of the league, we've got a bunch of super interesting teams. So I'm excited to dive into it today. We got five questions for you. What's our first question, Carson? Yeah, well, first off, I agree with you completely. It also feels sort of like the season is really starting now just because of how much turnover we've seen in terms of rosters with teams that could potentially be contenders. So very exciting on that front.

But as you said, we've also seen some teams that have been consistently towards the top of league. And we very much have that picture out east where there's sort of a pack of three that has separated itself with the Celtics, the Bucks and the Sixers. So Jason, out of that group, who do you think actually ends up as the one seat out east? So you know what's funny is I, it's very close. Bucks are a half game back and they've been killing everybody lately. But I think this is going to be one of the more important races here down the stretch. You, you know, I talked a lot over the last couple of weeks about teams having the flexibility to kind of ease their way into the postseason. And I do think if it comes down to injuries that both the Bucks and the Celtics,

even the Sixers, will prioritize taking care of their players and their health. That said, I think that the one seat is super important this year. On two different levels, first of all, I think Philly is a much, much more dangerous playoff opponent than Cleveland. I think there's a massive drop off there. I think I would be almost certain that the Bucks and the Celtics would beat the Cavs. I would give the Sixers a legitimate puncher's chance to beat either of them, especially if James A Hardin and Joelle Ambide play well.

So for starters, getting that one seat allows you a much easier path towards the conference finals, which that series is going to be a bloodbath, literally and physically. So like I look at that one seat as vitally important in the east. And then coming out of the West, I mean, the two teams that I think are most likely to win that conference are Golden State in Denver right now. and Denver is going to have the elevation factor. That's going to be huge. And Golden State, as bad as they've been this year,

they have not been bad at home. And so I think home court advantage is really going to matter for those two teams. And so I think they're going to go for it. Now, the one big wrinkle here is the Celtics are getting healthy. Marcus Smart just played his first game in a month on Wednesday before the All-Star break. And then Jalen Brown played in the All-Star game with that mask on. So they're kind of coming together. and we also have heard that Janus might miss a couple of games as he waits for the pain in his wrist to subside.

Now, the bucks have been okay without Janus this year. They're only minus 0.7 points per 100 possessions when Janus is off the floor. And they have a pretty easy schedule coming up. I was looking at it. And I think that they should win five of their next eight games at a minimum, even if Janus doesn't play in any of those games. But I'm still going to go with Boston. And here's why.

because there's one other big wrinkle that we're glossing over here. Boston has never relinquished the top seat. And every time they've had a down stretch where they've lost some games and teams have caught up, they've immediately gone on a run. So like they lost five out of six when Golden State embarrassed them in that one game. And then right when it looked like they might get passed, they turned around and won 13 of their next 15. And there was a gap again.

And then they lost three in a row in late January. Everybody caught up again. And then before anybody could pass them, they ripped off seven out of nine before the All-Star break. So, like, I think they know they have a higher regular season ceiling than any of these other teams. And I think any time they sense real danger in the standings, they're just going to hit the jets and pull away. So I'm going with Boston. What do you think, Carson?

I think that makes a lot of sense. And I honestly think that the margin between Milwaukee and Boston in this conversation, as it is in terms of who you like as the favorite come out of the conference come playoff time is very slim. I think the Sixers are sort of a little bit out of this as good as they've been. They have the toughest schedule in the league left and they're already three games back. That's going to be tough to make up. But I actually lean Milwaukee here. And the reason for that is sort of that I feel they were only seeing their potential being realized. Well, we haven't even seen it yet.

But they're on that trajectory. Like over the last 15, they've finally been a top 10 offense after struggling so much on that end of the floor compared to expectations for lot of the year. And they've been unstoppable, right? They've just ripped off 12 straight. I just think with the influx of offensive talent that they've had with the addition of a Joe Ingalls, with Chris Middleton getting healthier, hopefully becoming the sort of star caliber player that we expect him to be. And with the unstoppable level that Janus is at, again, it's very close. But I really like Milwaukee. And I also think come playoff time, I slightly prefer their combination of three legit stars. insanely consistent elite defense with just a really stellar cast of role players.

Yeah, it's funny. We know what that matchup is going to look like. Like, we know that Milwaukee is going to run a drop coverage with Lopez, just literally just blatantly ignoring Robert Williams or Al Horford, whoever's the five, to hang out at the rim. And they're basically going to funnel everybody to Brooke Lopez and try to force them to make the right reads. and that series will swing back and forth as Boston makes good decisions driving and kicking the basketball.

And as they get stupid and take bad shots, we've just seen this movie a million times. Then on the other end of the floor, it's going to be a steady diet of Grant Williams and Al Horford on Janus and whether or not guys can make plays off the ball. And I'm glad you brought up Ingalls and Chris Middleton. It's been a really small sample size, but those two guys, when you've put them on the floor with Drew Holiday and Janus this year, they've been scoring the shit out of the basketball. And this is something I've been preaching the entire season. And we're going to get into this a little bit more as we move on to our next question

as we're talking about MVP. But like, I don't think people have given Janus enough credit for the way he floated this team with that lack of offensive talent. Because I'll give you a wild stat. Did you know that the bucks are 22 and 6 in games that have involved clutch situations? Wow. despite being a bottom five clutch offense. Because teams can load up on Yonis

and they haven't had the requisite offensive skill around them. Now, we've seen why Yonis has become a defensive wrecking ball at the end of games. And so I'll give you an example in the Clippers game. Just took on isolation defense of Kauai Lennard and just completely shut him down over the course the last five minutes of the game, right? Like those are the elements there that Yonis has been able to,

to cover for all of these gaps on the roster as guys have been in and out of the lineup. So, you know, I tend to think that, I tend to think that Boston has a slightly higher ceiling when they're really clicking on all cylinders and moving the basketball around. And I almost think they look better offensively when their guards start their action. When, when Derek White and Marcus Smart and Malcolm Brogden actually make that initial decision and Tatum and Brown play off of that, I think they actually look a lot better. I do think they have a higher ceiling, but I do think Milwaukee is a much more like a safer pick for who's going to get out of the conference. I agree. And I think that that decision making factor is always going to be a swing thing for Boston.

Like we know how brilliant their offense can be. We've seen it for so much of this season. And we know how low it can at times get. Like we saw different points in that Warriors series throughout last regular season. So I agree with you. I think Milwaukee's the pick. But Boston has an unbelievably. high ceiling. So let's move on a question number two, which is one that has been pretty hotly debated as of late. And there was a bit of outrage over a recent ESPN straw poll on this topic. But Jason, will Nikola Yokic win a third straight MVP this year? I believe he will. It's just my time following the NBA, I've noticed that voters in particular also have egos, which I get it. Like Carson, if I called you and I was like, hey, buddy, guess what?

Congratulations. You get to vote on NBA awards for the rest of this, you know, for the rest of your career. You'd be like, hell yeah, dude. I'm one of those guys. You know, and like, and I think they, I think they have a little bit of ego and I think that they write about it throughout the season. And so they make arguments throughout the season for why they feel a certain way. And so it's really hard for them to come off of that. And that Tim Bond Temp's article that MVP Strawpole is very much a, it's a it's kind of weirdly prescient like it's right almost every time um so given the advantage that yoke chad in that poll and where i've seen on twitter the way a lot of these voters are arguing this point i i think it's a runaway train i don't think he's missing it now to be clear if he wins his third straight

and he's deserving i have no problem with that i don't think that just because a guy might may or may not have not deserved a previous MVP. It doesn't mean he shouldn't get one that he absolutely deserves if he deserves it within the season. But I have a big question for you, Carson, and I'm hoping you can help me reconcile this because the issue that I have with it

is if you ask me who is the MVP if the season ended right now, I think it's a toss-up between Janice and Yolkich, and I think Joe Lambeed is right there behind them. And so it bothers me that the narrative has it as a runaway freight train kind of thing. So I wanted to kind of read this to you. And Carson, you can tell me if I'm being crazy.

So Nigley-Yokic is averaging 25, 12, and 10. He's obviously got a 70% true shooting percentage, which is absurd, although he's not relying on almost any self-creation. Like, he's not doing a ton of isolating or posting up. He's doing a lot of work kind of within the flow of the offense, relative to some of the other guys that he's competing with. That's going to lead to inflated true shooting percentages in my. my opinion. The Nuggets are 41 and 18. I do think he has demonstrated himself as the best

offensive player in the league. I think that's a hill that you've been on for a couple years now, and I think I'm on that hill now too. But we honest, I'm getting 32, 12, and 5, 60% true shooting, albeit on a totally different type of shot diet. They're a half game better in the standings, 41 and 17. I would argue he's done more with less. We just talked about in the last segment about the influx of offensive talent for the Bucks and the way that's completely transformed their offense. There's been a lot of this season with like Janus out there with Brooke Lopez and just a bunch of guys.

You know what I mean? Drew Holiday's been in and out of the lineup. Chris Middleton's barely been in the lineup. Joe Ingalls just started playing in the last like what, dozen or dozen or so games. So like it's one of those things where I do think he's done a little bit more than less. With less, I think he's a top five offensive player in the league.

And I think he's the very best defensive player in the league. We mentioned that clutch stat earlier, the 22 and 6 in clutch games with what he can do defensively. So I'm not saying it is Janus, but why is it that Yokic fans, and you're a Yokch fan and you're a Yokch supporter, why is it that Yokch fans feel like this is kind of a done deal? Well, first of all, let me just say that I don't feel that way at all. And if anybody picked Yonis, I completely understand it. I think these are the two guys who have consistently carried their rosters the most. Yes, they have good rosters, but are clearly like in a completely different tier in terms of superstar ability from anybody else on their team.

Janice has done so much defensively, although the Bucks are really talented there as well, but they've been unbelievable on that end. And I mean, his raw production and what he has done to raise their floor offensively and make them an elite team without Chris Middleton for so much of this year. is remarkably impressive. I guess I'll just make the case for why I do still think it's Yokic. It is the most efficient scoring season at this volume that we've ever seen by nearly three points true shooting. And I understand what you're saying about the shot diet. That being said, his versatility is unprecedented for a big man, right? Like, he is actually the highest volume post player in the league and he scores at 91st percentile efficiency there.

He's a 90th percentile role man. Jason, he's a 60th percentile role man. He's a 68th percentile pick and roll ball handler. He's 7 foot 285 pounds. Like the inverted pick and roll are legitimately important for the Nuggets. And he crushes it. He is a 55% shooter from mid range, 70% on floaters. So like to me, the shot making the scoring is remarkable.

And that's obviously not the primary selling point, which I think is the playmaking and the overall ability to lift a team offense. Like his on-off splits this year plus 24.7 be best of this century, of any player, point blank, plus 13.7 on court net rating. That's how many points for one hundred possessions the nuggets outscore their opponents by when he's on the floor. It's easily the best of any candidate. It's five points per and under possessions better than Janus. Meanwhile, Janice's team, yes, is mediocre when he's off the floor,

but they don't fall apart as Yokic's nuggets do. And I understand if people are growing a bit tired of that argument because it's like, yeah, well, part of that is that the nuggets don't have really a playable backup center or haven't for so much of this year. And I understand that. But nevertheless, he is so fundamental to not just elevating this offense, but to making it the best in the league.

They're 38 and 13 when he plays. So to me, I think he's clearly the best offensive player. I think he's at the best offensive season. And I think he has had the largest impact on team success. I actually do. But I think the margin between him and Janus is slim there. And if you want to make the two-way better all-all-law, around argument for Janus, who has also had such unbelievable offensive production and propelled

his team to being elite. I really have no problem with that. I do think it's a toss-up. And I could see Janus actually taking the lead down the stretch. I mean, if the bucks just run away with it now that they're at full strength. And I would have no problem with that. Yeah, it's interesting because specifically with the shot diet stuff, I want to be clear. Like, I don't think you get bonus points for making it more difficult. I always joke about, like, I'll have, I'll have guys when I'm playing sometimes. It'll be like, they'll be like, why you call him for a ball screen or something like that? I'm like, do you think I get bonus points for scoring on you? Like, no, it's like, I'm trying to win this game. Okay. Like, I don't care what how we go about doing it, right? You know, it's like,

what I appreciate about Yokic is, I think the fact that he scores so much in the flow of the offense is part of what makes them such a dominant regular season team, because there is such a rhythm and flow to the way they play offensively. But I do, and you pointed out the post-up stuff, and I want to be clear, it's not like Yokic is never looking to create his own shot. Of course he does. Primarily, he's doing it out of the post. A lot of times against mismatches that are generated through the flow of his, you know,

inverted pick and rolls and the things that he does push in the ball in transition. But I do think there's something to be said about, especially when you get into late game situations and in the postseason, that rhythm and flow offense tends to have a little bit of a ceiling to it. You saw that in that Philadelphia game. Like at the end of that game, Philly got in front of all of those Denver actions, and nobody on Denver wanted to take and make a tough shot. And on the other end of the floor, Joel Embed was just staring Jokic right in the eyeballs

and hit and pull up jumpers in his face. So like, and that's just one game. And there's also a version of that game where Yon B doesn't get hot at the end. And then Denver wins. And then everyone's talking about how great Yokic is, right? So, but what I'm just saying, though, is like in terms of like, oh, he's having one of the most efficient scoring seasons in the history of the NBA. I do think that there's an important footnote there, which is that Yokit, the way that Yokic is

doing it is different than a lot of the other high volume scoring seasons in NBA history. So I do think that factors into the efficiency. I do want to push back on one last thing, though. I can't stand it when I hear the Yokits proponents point out the on-off stats. Not that I don't appreciate the on-off stats, but there's a couple of, There's two huge factors there. You mentioned one of them. They don't have a good bench, at least not until before the trade deadline.

I do think Reggie Jackson and Thomas Bryant will help a lot in that department. But the Nuggets also use kind of a line shift system. And that's a huge difference between the way the way most teams in the NBA do. Most teams in the NBA like to stagger a little bit more to give themselves a little bit more continuity with talent on the floor throughout the game. The nuggets are very much a, we're running our starters, and then we're going to bring out our bench group, and then we're going to come back to our starters. And so that massive drop off in talent is a big part of why they struggle so much when the starters or when Yokic is off the floor. That's why you see, like, Contavius Caldwell, Pope's on off numbers are through the roof, right?

Like there's a huge part of that is the way they stagger those lineups. So, you know, for Milwaukee, for instance, they run a more traditional rotation with guys in and out of the lineup. There's a lot of Janus at center as they go to their bench. So I do, I do think that there's some context there. I really put it, I really put it this simple. Like, these are two of the top, you know, five players in the world that are having other worldly seasons. Yokic has a more offensive edge. Yonis has a more defensive edge. I think that I would probably end up favoring the guy, provided that no one misses too much time. Like if Yonis goes and misses seven games here with his wrist, then it's a done deal. Like Yonich gets it. And that's a huge thing with Yonis.

in the last few years is his availability. That dude is just always ready to play. I think even when he's missed games this year, it's been like COVID. You know what I mean? So like he, his availability is a huge factor there. But they're close enough at this point that if, if, you know, if it's still just a five to six game gap between the two of them in terms of playing availability and the in the bucks finished ahead of them in the standings, I'd probably lean towards Janus. And I'm fine with that. And I will say, I think that those are both important and fair contextual points that you made on the on-off number. I would then simplify it.

And sure, you're still getting the value that he's playing with a lot of starters. But I think just that pure on court number, right? I mean, outscoring opposing teams by 13.7 points per 100 when he's on the floor is remarkable. And it's the best of any of these candidates. So I think that this should be viewed as a very even two-man race. I think that Embed because of sort of games missed doesn't have quite as strong of a case, although he's not too far behind in that conversation, but doesn't quite have the team success.

Like the margins are slim here. So if you want to make an Embed case, I would hear it out. I just think it's pretty clearly the weakest of the three. But if I could just, for a moment, vent, Jason, from the perspective of a longtime Yokish fan, a guy who actually picked him to win MVP this season before he did it, I don't know that I want him to win this MVP,

because the narratives that have started, just the disgusting level of outrage and disingenuous arguments that are born out of him just being announced as a strawpole frontrunner. It's absurd. Like we're getting so many bad faith arguments. We're getting the, well, hold on. Everybody ragged on Russ as a stat pattern when he averaged a triple double. By the way, for which he won an MVP. An MVP that he actually didn't deserve in my opinion, but he won the MVP.

And now we're not doing the same for Yokic. It's like these could not be more different cases, right? Yokic has led the best offense in basketball without another legitimate star. He is this remarkable blend of efficiency and offensive versatility and playmaking. There's a massive impact on winning, right? Russ's team offense was 16th. Russ was wildly inefficient. Russ was, by the way, having his rebounds padded.

Like Stephen Adams was trying to get him the ball so that he could initiate the offense more quickly. Look at his contested rebound rate. And then I just think the playoff success argument, it's like if you think anybody could have contended with the Nuggets roster, the last two years, you're tripping. Fekundo Campazo and Austin Rivers where there's starting guards in a playoff series. They haven't had Jamal Murray. And Yokic has been incredible.

So I just think it's going to put him in just an absurd position of people being like, all right, well, you got three MVPs. You need to win a ring right now or you're a fraud. And it's like, well, this is actually his first title caliber roster. And guess what? There's other title caliber rosters out there. Like, I just think it's going to be unfair on that front. But let me commend you, Carson, really quickly before.

we move on. You went through that entire debate without mentioning a single catch-all metric, which is all I've been seeing on the damn Twitter timeline over the course of the last couple of weeks, which drives me completely insane. You made a basketball case for it, and I sincerely appreciate that. Well, Jason, you and I are aligned in our dislike of catch-all one-number metrics. I think the idea that we could encapsulate a basketball player's value with one number is absurd. And I think defensive metrics are overwhelmingly offensively bad. But that's a conversation for another day. And by the way, defensive metrics clearly overrate Yokic.

There's no doubt about that. But I think he's the best offensive player in basketball. I think his impact on team success in this regular season has still been unrivaled. But Janus is incredible. And we've known from the jump that this was going to be an MVP race for the ages. And I think it's lived up to the hype. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games.

Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care where I'm saying. Yep, that's me. Clipper Taylor the Fire. forth. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show.

This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream,

this is right where you need to be. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tapped Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do with Little Kim?

Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick a here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill, waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 is big to me, not just because,

of crack. I'm down to talk about crack all day, but just so y'all know. I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack. So I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now. Thank you finishing that sentence. Yes. I don't think there's a more important year for black people.

Really? Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Bet the NBA on T&T with a no sweat same game parlay from Fanduel, America's number one sportsbook. It doesn't matter if you're new to Fandual or already have an account. Every Thursday night, you'll get bonus bets back if your same game parlay doesn't hit. NBA same game parlays are the perfect way to combine your bets for a chance at a bigger payday.

Build your own or choose from one of the popular same game parlays already made for you in the Vandle Sportsbook app. This Thursday, I'm on the Lakers to cover their minus four and a half spread against Golden State, and I like the under. This new version of the Lakers plays at a much slower pace, and with Jared Vanderbilt in the starting lineup, there are a much better defensive team than they were earlier in the season. So I think that game's going to go under, and the Lakers are going to win comfortably.

However you want to play, you can bet the NBA on TNT every Thursday night with a no-swet-same game parlay. Just head to fenduel.com slash jason T to download fendul today and get in on the action. And if you're in Massachusetts, get ready, because FanDuel is coming soon. Make sure you check out FanDuel.com slash mass and take advantage of their great pre-live offers.

Make every moment more with FanDuel, an official sports betting partner of the NBA. Let's talk now about a guy who was in that conversation early has fallen out of a bit due to sort of the team success factor, but now has his run-in-mate, they could put them in that contending conversation. That is the Luca Donchich, Kyrie Irving duo in Dallas. Jason,

will their season, will this duo be a success or a failure? I think it's certainly possible. I don't think this season is the season to properly evaluate them. I mean, just everything we know about playoff basketball. I've pointed this out on the show before, but you need a certain amount of defensive front court talent to have any chance to win the title. Just look at every defensive front court that's won the title in the last like 30 years. And you're not, like the weakest one you'll find in there is maybe like, you know, Dirk Novitsky and Tyson Chandler, who Tyson Chandler was an awesome rim protector at

that point, right? Like, you're just not going to be able to compete in the NBA playoffs without real defensive front court versatility. And so a lot of it's played out exactly like we expected. We talked about a real, a real secondary ball handler to help with usage and things along those lines and to give a different kind of change up to Luca, elevating them on offense, but then really, really struggling on the defensive end. And that's exactly what's happened. So here's the lineup data so far since Kyrie's come to Dallas with both Luca and Kyrie on the floor in 109 possessions. They are plus 10.5 net with a defensive rating of 121. So they're beating the crap out of teams despite giving up an egregious

amount of points. And it's because they have an offensive rating up over 131 points per 100 possessions. When Kyrie's on the floor without Luca, they've done, they've had a hundred and 99 possessions of that so far. A 116 defensive rating, 123 offensive rating plus seven net. That's about as good as you're ever going to do without Luca, uh, in this era. Uh, probably worth mentioning. And this is, you know, I was talking about this with Ryan, uh, shortly after this all went down. But dude, he, he, went right away with one practice and beat the clippers and the kings on the road without luka like like that you know and it always bothered me during this whole debate how everyone focused

on the issues with kairi with while completely glossing over the fact that he is an unbelievably good basketball player um so you're seeing you're seeing that benefit already there and then this season with luka and no kairi and 3,500 possessions obviously because it's a full season they have a 120 offensive rating and a 116 defensive rating. So they're getting really good like Luca quality offense even when Luca's off the floor, which is the huge advantage there. Now, I think from an actual basketball standpoint, and I'm wondering if you're seeing the same thing, there's a lot more tempo and pace to the way they're playing. Now, not necessarily in pushing and transition, because I was looking at the numbers, they were a 12% transition

frequency without Kyrie and a 13% with them. So not much of a tick up. there. But in the half court, there's just a lot more quickness of decision making with Kyrie on the floor. And I think, I think a lot of that is Kyrie initiating possessions just because he makes quicker decisions and he's, he's not the super methodical approach that Luca has. But even when Lucas had the ball, I'm not sure if you've noticed this, Carson, but even Lucas is making quicker decisions knowing that if it leads to an opportunity for Kyrie to run second side action or for them to move the ball a little bit more, they're getting good, better stuff out of that.

And you're seeing that reflected in the offensive ratings. But I just, I thought they were literally the worst watch in basketball this season. For a guy like us, for guys like us who have to watch it and have to watch the good teams, I hated watching them the most because it was just so predictable. And I love Luca. But the television product, it was just so every possession looked the same. Adding Kyrie to this mix has made it. a must watch team for me.

And that's just a testament to the way that he's kind of made their offense more palatable. And I think it invigorates the team. Like in that game, that comeback game against Minnesota where Anthony Edwards and Jalen Jada McDaniels shut them down on the final possession, the energy that was flowing through that arena as Kyrie led that comeback was palpable. And I think that there's something to be said about stagnation and the effect it has on the energy of offball players versus pace and tempo and movement in the way that keeps players engaged.

I think Kyrie has been monumentally good for them offensively. Now, the defensive end is going to be a problem, but that was never going to be something they could address within this season. That's going to be something they can look at this offseason. And the beauty of it is because of how damn good Kyrie Irving and Luca Donchich are, you can do things like get severely offensive limited players, offensively limited players because they're pull-up shooters, because Luke is such a half-court surgeon,

you can go after front-court players that have severe offensive. defensive deficiencies that specialize in what the, like a guy like Stanley Johnson might be someone they look at even within this season to shore them up on the wing. But they need, they need to like reform the front court in the offseason to have a real chance to compete. But I love this deal simply because of the fact that it makes them such a more fun and fluid offensive basketball team. I completely agree that the offensive fit is dreamlike. And that's how I thought it would look and in practice, it's been perfect. I mean, Kyrie is the ideal compliment to Luca. And there were some people who were talking about how they thought it was two ball dominant guards playing together,

which it really isn't. And we've seen Kyrie consistently play that complimentary role to a more ball dominant star. If it's LeBron, if it's playing with both Hardin and KD, he is that quicker decision maker. He is obviously a brilliant isolation and pick and roll score who can attack mismatches and go get you a bucket quickly. And he's also a great. spot-up player. And, you know, he's even increased his volume there, obviously, playing alongside Luca. And he was an 88th percentile spot-up guy this season in Brooklyn. So I think that the fit is great there. You mentioned how brilliant they've been offensively. I do think, though, if you're expecting Dallas to contend this season, it's not going to happen because of what you

laid out. I thought that that game against Minnesota was a defensive abomination. And I think that overall, we've seen them unable to stop people at the point of attack. and then unable to challenge them at the rim. Like since they added Kyrie, they're allowing opposing teams to shoot 75% inside five feet, Jason. That's 4% worse than any other team in the league. And they're allowing the most makes per game in that area because it's like Christian Wood with his limited drop coverage

is not intimidating anybody. Dwight Powell is not intimidating anybody, especially when you're dealing with two liabilities at the point of attack. You have to play for 35 minutes a night because thereby so far your best players. So I agree with you. I think this is a move that you look at as being a potential elevator into contention for next year. Because they have movable contracts with THJ.

Maybe Breton's you can attach a pick and get off that money at least. Reggie Bullock is another like mid-level size contract, although I think they probably want to keep him. And they've got a couple expirings this year. So it's concerning to me still being invested in Kyrie, as good as he may be at basketball, It's just frightening to have him on an expiring deal, and you never know when the volatility is going to come into play. And they're not good enough yet.

And so that's what's a bit scary is that it's no like, oh, man, well, if Kyrie goes insane after this year, at least we had our shot at a title because they don't have that shot at a title yet. They're 24th in defensive rating. We've never seen a team that bad on that end make the finals. And so I think the precedent there is clear, but they are really good offensively. And you're right. I mean, if they shore up the wings down the line, yeah.

then this absolutely could be a true contending team. That's super interesting. Like I'm making the case for Kyrie as a long-term upside. And the long-term element is what's so terrifying about Kyrie. Now, I will say that I think Mark Cuban is crazy enough to give him what he wants. And I also think that there are severe limitations for other teams to obtaining him because sign and trades get super complicated from the standpoint of like hard capping you. So like if the Lakers wanted them, it's like you've got kind of two options.

Like if Anthony Davis plays awesome down the stretch of the season, you look to maybe do a sign and trade deal with DeAngelo Russell, but then you have to get the Mavericks on board, so you might have to give up picks. And then now even if you do a double sign and trade with DeLo and Kyrie, you're immediately hard capping yourself, which limits your ability this offseason to add talent around those guys. There's a bunch of like different elements that make it super complicated. And I think it really just comes down to Mark Cuban writes the check after the season. So I'm less worried about that. The one last thing that I thought you said that was super interesting before we move on is that

spotting up part. You know, Spencer Dinwiddie was a good off-ball option in Dallas. And there are nights where he looks like an all-star. But the one gigantic chasm, and I do think, Heir is a much better on-ball player than Dinwiddie. That goes without saying. But where an even larger chasm exists is in that spotting up element. because Spencer Dinwiddie is very streaky jump shooter. And in a spot-up situations is someone that defenses feel at least somewhat comfortable conceding shots to. Whereas with Kyrie Irving, it's like that thing's going in every single time if you leave him open. And so that element is a huge part of their complementary offense together.

But I thought you laid it out pretty well. It's a long-term upside with a player that you don't feel comfortable having a long-term attachment to. And so it's going to be an interesting challenge for them. And it's like you said, it had to be long term because they couldn't get it all done this year. They had two clear needs on this roster, really high level second creator, and then that front court defense. And they had to compromise one of those, giving up Dorian Finney Smith to then gain a much better player in the category that is probably, well, I don't know if it's more important to their long term ceiling. I think they really need both. But Kyrie is that first building block you hope alongside Luca.

But man, does it scare me? Because you just don't know, dude. I mean, he teamed up with, you know, his best buddy. And then, of course, the Nets are sort of incompetent. That fell apart. He left LeBron James in three straight finals to go to, you know, the most talented young core in the league. And then wasn't happy with that.

Like, it's just a really scary guy to be invested in. So we will see. how that plays out over the home stretch of this season and the coming years. But we just mentioned Kevin Durant, his buddy, who obviously is now in Phoenix. So Jason, we have not seen Katie on the floor for the suns yet, but I think the expectations are obviously very high. Is this a finals or bust season for them? I don't think so. Now, I do think unlike Dallas, I think they have a real chance to win the title this year. I've said this before, but I think I think they have the worst perimeter defense out of any serious NBA finals contender.

For instance, like, even the Lakers are like, oh, DeAngelo Russell and Malik Beasley. Yeah, but Jared Vanderbilt is a much better, like, swing man defender than anybody who's playing for the Phoenix Suns right now, right? So, like, in terms of teams that you're looking at there, they just don't have anybody that can contain the ball. Chris Paul at this phase of his career struggles with quicker guards. And so it's one of those things where I do think. that they're flawed and I do not have them as my favorite this year under any stretch of imagination.

However, like Devin Booker's 26, DeAndre Aten's 24 locked up long term and is a tradable contract because he's in the mid 30s for millions. Chris Paul, I don't think matters much to this team's ultimate ceiling. Like I do think he'll find a way to contribute within this season and maybe a little bit next season. But I don't think, even if you just completely erased him from the equation. I don't think it changes my calculus of the suns much at all, especially with how well guys like Josh Okoji are playing, you know, in point of attack defense roles, which you can almost look at him as a defensive point guard for that team if they needed. And then I think KD's going to age really well. I think overall, the way that his game is structured, he's going to be a very

effective score for at least the next three, four, five seasons. So I'm not concerned about that at all. I would say, though, that next season would be their best and most likely opportunity to win after they make a couple of moves on the margins. And with that, will come real pressure. So next year, there's going to be some real serious pressure on Kevin Durant to get his first NBA championship outside of that warrior's environment where he had the massive talent advantage. But I don't think I'm going to be holding him to that standard in this season. I think that they're sort of on the border here when we're talking about finals or bust. It's not really right because they don't have an overwhelming talent advantage and they certainly have depth concerns. They have continuity challenges just in terms of having 20 games now to get this all together.

But my gut reaction when this move happened was I think this makes them my favorite out west. I still don't think that they're complete enough to- You pick them over Denver? Well, that was my gut reaction. Now as I'm reflected and I'm like, I don't know, man. We still haven't seen it. Like Denver is a well-oiled machine with 20 plus games to go. Phoenix has not played basketball yet together with 20 plus games to go.

So you think Kevin Durant's going to struggle to fit in with the suns? No, I don't. But it's more about, okay, well, when we're looking at this wing depth, how much of a problem is that? When we're looking at point of attack defense, like handling some of the dynamic guards, you will have to. There's actually not as many as you might think in the West, but, you know, certainly as Steph Curry, right, if that happens in a meaningful playoff series. I think Jordan is the best option there. Jordan Poole even. Like, you know, if Portland isn't going to matter, but even if they had to guard like Damon and Aunt Simons, it's like all of those

matchups would be really problematic. So I have my basketball concerns there. I obviously think Katie is unbelievable. I know you've said you think he's been the best player this season. I have zero problem with that. And I might agree. The top four for me is so close between him, Janice, Yokic and Steph. I think those guys are all basketball gods. But my thought was kind of there is just an overwhelming star power factor here with like maybe the best scoring wing tandem we've ever seen with booking KD. Like that's an unbelievable level of talent and versatility. And CP, although he's had his struggles as a score this year, is still so effective in that playmaker, tempo setter, especially if you have two just monsters to feed.

Like, he's going to be so great in that role. And Aitin, you know, if he's consistently dialed in defensively and doesn't really have an offensive burden to try to create for himself can be this super efficient, positive two-way force. So, yeah, I don't think anybody else is matching that top four. And the question is just how far behind the rest of the contenders are they in that five through eight range? And I think the answer is clearly behind.

I don't think that they're beating the bucks of the Celtics. I honestly don't think anybody out west is. If I were to pick somebody, it would be Denver or Golden State because I think we've seen with Golden State the two-way ceiling last year. We trust their role players. Denver again, trust their top six a lot. Phoenix, we don't have that level of confidence yet.

But I don't know, this is a really, really, really talented basketball team at the top. So I think we should have high expectations. And guess what? you may be fair to KD. I think KD will get grilled if they don't win a title. Like that may be unreasonable. I mean,

a title is certainly unreasonable because they shouldn't, right? They're not as complete or as good of a basketball team. We wouldn't think as Milwaukee or Boston. But that's what happens when you take things into your own hands.

There's a certain subsection of people who don't like that, especially with KD. And I think we'll hear that. Well, that's where you just got to get off Twitter, my brother. It's like,

come on, man. I get like, like, he's not doing that. You're going to face a ton of negativity on there no matter what you do. Like literally, I mean, I've seen like shows like ESPN first take talking about LeBron having pressure during this season. It's like, come on, man. Are you freaking kidding me?

He hasn't done enough, Jason. He hasn't done enough. Well, he hasn't done enough to apparently make your list of top four players in the league. I got a little bone to pick there. Would you have him there? Have you seen the work he's done over the last three months to float that God off? Lakers roster. Have you looked at the on-off numbers? Have you looked at how they've won every single one of his shifts with like fringe NBA players around him? I think he's top six.

Okay. All right. I'll accept it. I'll accept it. I have one follow-up question. Okay. Do the sons limit their ceiling if they keep the ball in Chris Paul's hands too much, given how good of a offensive initiator Kevin Durant has met this season? Like if they slot him into the McAle Bridges role off the ball. Doesn't that limit their offensive ceiling? Yes, unequivocally. I mean, we know that Katie is unbelievable in really any offensive role. Like we've seen him play more off ball like in Golden State.

We know that he's a lethal catch and shooter. But yeah, of course. I mean, he's been probably the best pick and roll weapon in basketball this year. And Book is also obviously an unbelievable pick and roll bucket getter and playmaker at this point. So yeah, those are your two guys. But I do still think there's value in being able to run actions for those guys, getting them open away from the ball, that having CP being so savvy in that role, it's just nice to have that variety and to be able to create them looks in different ways. And I think Phoenix can do that at a level for their star wings that I don't know if anybody else around the league can. So when it comes down to it, yeah, I mean, I think we could see CP get faked.

out a little bit, but also, I mean, he's still the lethal switch hunter, man. Like, he hasn't been quite as good at his signature mid-range, short-range shot-making this year. But we know what he's done the last two playoffs. I mean, he's scoring skyrockets, and he just will run pick and roll at the weakest defensive player time and again and again and get that switch. And if you're playing drop, it's just, oh, wow, CP wants to shoot 65% for mid-range. Okay. So I think having that is your third guy offensively with the ability to pick his spots as a score and with his playmaking genius. I still think CP3 really helps this team.

I do. I think he helps. And I think there's a role for him, especially in bench groups. I just look at it like this. I know the way Kevin Durant's going to look at this. He's going to be like, all,

you just keep playing ball the way you have all slide into that Mikhail Bridges role. We'll make this whole thing work. I know that's what Katie's been saying behind the scenes. That just seems like something he would do. And the way I look at it is you're right. Like Devin Booker, coming up in that Spain pick and roll action getting shots has worked well. Chris Paul

switch hunting and doing all that stuff has worked well. But Kevin Durant is one of the small handful of players like the two or three players in the league this year where every team in the NBA has been like trap every one of his pick and rolls. Like we cannot allow this guy to come off of this pick and roll clean. And playing four on three in the back end with Kyrie and you know, Ben Simmons and Nick Claxton and Royce O'Neill has generated absurd. offensive ratings. Just imagine if that's Chris Paul, Devin Booker, DeAndre Aiton, and Josh Kogi, or whoever it is that's in that spot. I think that the ultimate offensive ceiling of this team is Kevin Durant has the damn basketball. And so I'm just really curious how long it takes

them to get there because I do think they'll eventually go that route, especially when the chips are down. But like you talk about continuity, like those four on threes, you build continuity in making those quick decisions and those four on threes. And I'd like to see them get more practice with that in the coming weeks. That's just one of those small little storylines with the Sun's offense that I'm going to be keeping an eye on here in the next couple months. And I think it's a very interesting one.

And I think it's a good point, right? Katie's your best player. He's your best offensive engine. And it would be interesting to see CP3 back in sort of an off ball role, which the only time we've seen in his career was Houston with James Hard. But he did pretty darn well. And obviously, I don't think he's quite the same player

he was, but great decision maker, again, can be incredibly effective as a shooter. So a guy who can pick his spots and still really have a pronounced impact. Okay, we've done a lot of talking about the best in the league here, Jason, of course, as we enter the home stretch.

But on the flip side of that, we have the tankathon going on, which is inevitable in today's NBA, but especially this year, given the prizes at the top of the draft that have been discussed so much with Victor Wenbanyama and with Scoot. Jason, we've already done a decent amount of talking about those guys.

So I went ahead. I told you that my next favorite guy in this class is a men Thompson, the overtime elite guy. Have you had a chance to take a look at him? What are your thoughts? Yeah, it took a look at him yesterday. Thank God for Synergy. It makes it a lot easier to get a good feel for these players

in a short amount of time. You know, I think he's one of the best wing prospects I've seen in a long time from the standpoint of his physical tools. He's extremely raw. The jump shot has miles and miles to go. Like, he's not just missing shots. He's missing them badly. There's going to be need to be tweaks to the form. There's a little bit of stuff with, like, the way he sees the floor. he just flies into packed paints without really making reads of where the help is and he'll turn the basketball over and a lot of young basketball player stuff there. But just strictly from the standpoint of his physical tools, you know, we see a lot of like really twitchy and springy wings. And he obviously has that twitch and he's got that spring. But what he has that I find super

fascinating is he's got that like downhill element, like that real straight line power. going downhill that we don't see from a lot of wings these days, you know? And I think that that we've seen that so much, especially in playoff basketball, like just Andrew Wiggins and his ability to like rip through and drop a shoulder into the center's chest and make like a little floater in the lane. Like that's sort of like downhill rim pressure from the wing position, I think is super valuable. And even though he doesn't see the four super well yet, he does dribble extremely well for a player his size.

And he's got one of the nastiest hesitation move first step combinations that I've seen. Like, you know, put that ball into his right hand, kind of sitting at high hezzie for a second. And he'll hit the jets. And there's like a ridiculous first step. He's got that LeBron off arm thing where he extends that left arm out and just starts clearing space. And like you're watching these guys in the footage that I've been watching really sitting on his drive because he can't shoot. And he's still just getting persistent rim pressure as a downhill guy. is what drew me so much to Anthony Edwards was that real combination of downhill power with his

vertical athleticism, his pull-up jump shooting and all those different things. That's something that I've been placing a lot of value on around the league. I mean, even just, Shea Gildes Alexander is one of my favorite guards because of his persistent ability to get to the rim. Like that, I just, especially in playoff basketball and the way that warps defenses and the way the defenses are kind of spread out these days, I put a lot of value to that. Now, it's got a lot, like I said, a lot of stuff he's got to clean up. The jumper's got like he's going to have to have like a five year plan to fix his jump shot. Like it's it's that far away. And the floor vision stuff, you know, what's funny is you actually impresses me as a passer from the standpoint of like these rifle

cross court passes because he can throw over the top of the defense. But he struggles a little bit with the with the pile driving into just, you know, throngs of people and turning the basketball over. I find I like this is a guy that you'd probably look at as a potential number one pick and some other drafts in recent NBA history just because that physical profile at the wing dude he's kind of he's got wide shoulders and he's already filled out pretty well too like he he he was it was kind of jarring to watch because I just haven't seen a wing prospect like that in a long time he's incredibly unique I think like first off probably along with his twin brother, by the way, who for those who don't know,

was maybe also going to be a top five pick in this class of SAR. Is that the guy that I kept seeing on the footage where I thought it was the player? Yes. I was like, who's this guy that looks exactly like? Yes. And they were one in zero. So, yeah. And they're actually pretty similar basketball players.

There's a few differences that I think makes a man a better prospect. Primarily, in my opinion, that I love his playmaking ceiling. And I think I've been more impressed by his vision. than you. I do agree sometimes he just sort of barrels into traffic. And I also think the key with him all around is polish, right? I mean, I think his handle needs to be a little bit tighter and better in traffic. He needs to be a better finisher. He needs to add like a floater element to his game. And his jump shot is not polished. It's broken. It's, as you said, I mean, needs to be completely reworked mechanically, especially given that he doesn't even have like natural touch to carry it. So not only is his lower body

totally out of whack, and I think at times his follow-through, he just doesn't have that touch to begin with. He's not a good free-throw shooter. So that is going to be a huge swing factor for him, but you have this six-seven super athlete. I mean, unbelievably in terms of quickness, unbelievable in terms of vertical ability, who is this insane pure passer. Like you talk about the ability to rifle stuff one-handed is incredible. And he's very invariable. And he's very, like no looks jump passes. He disguises them well and he's accurate. He's consistently accurate at a level that if you saw from any NBA guard, you'd be like, oh, wow. I mean, that guy's a playmaker. And this is that 6-7 so he can see so much. He sees over the top of a lot of these defenders.

And I do think his vision is generally pretty good. I think that I actually kind of like that although he's this super athlete, he does do a nice job of playing at a relatively controlled pace, I think. Not to say that he's perfect. Blown away by the way he handled ball pressure in the footage that I watched. And what I like is he sort of has that natural NBA tempo. Like you need to have change in pace, right? Look at Jha.

I mean, he's the master of trapping guys behind him and still hitting the floaters and all that. On top of being this insane pure athlete. But a man, I think, has some of those tools. He comes around his screen. He gets his hang dribble. And he sort of surveys, okay, you know, what is this pick and roll coverage? Am I going to have the lob here? Am I going to have a shooter?

and I think given his athleticism, given his passing ability, it's good that he sees the floor that way and has that point guard mindset. Like I think he loves playmaking and I think that he looks to do it consistently. So I think you said it very well. Oh, also, by the way, this is a guy who I think is a very high two-way ceiling, like great lateral athlete, long, really good ball instincts and generally pretty committed to that end. And he's a transition monster, as I'm sure anybody can imagine, this six, seven insane athlete,

handling the ball, running the floor as a wing, just lethal there. if you plot this guy in like 2020 with aunt who was this incredible athlete but was a flawed prospect I think playmaking questions defensive consistency questions all that yeah he'd be right up there for the number one prospect he's an insane ceiling he can be this six seven hyper athletic playmaking machine who if he even has a competent jump shot I think is moving into that potentially superstar range and even if he doesn't I think his defense and his playmaking in his athleticism, give him like a starter level floor.

It's hard if you can't shoot in this league, but it's like you said. I mean, sometimes it doesn't matter. You could drop and you can sit on his drives and he might still beat you. So I really, really like a man. And again, like, you don't have to be a great jump shooter if you're great at everything else.

What you need is like a base, like anything in the low 30s. Yeah. is going to be if he is a willing shooter like that's the thing that everyone that i wish ben simmons could figure out like dude no one's expecting you to go shoot 40% they're like but you have to have a you and what i have liked about a man is he's he is an aggressive jump shooter like he's taking them things he's just not making him you know what i mean so like like like he will he will take a step back three and he will if you sag way off of him he will rise up and shoot he does have the um

he does have the wherewithal and the willingness to take the shot. He just needs to get up to a certain point. And in NBA offenses, they're going to find a way to make him useful because he does everything else so well, because he passes so well, because he can handle ball pressure and bring the ball up the floor. He can, you know, get you into your offense in that sense,

like that transition threat. There's going to be so many other ways that he can impact the game just has to reach that baseline level. And if he goes, you know, three overall and ends up in some situation where he, can take three, four years to really grow, there's no pressure involved with it. I think that was an underrated element of the Ben Simmons thing, is they were so damn good right away with Joel and B that he was pressured into his weaknesses being hyper-analysed right away. You know what I mean?

Like, no one's going to, no one's going to care if Jaden Ivy is sitting in Detroit running pick and rolls at 0.65 points per possession for two years because he's in the Detroit, he's with the Detroit pistons, you know what I mean? So like that's, that's where that leeway is bought. But I, I will say in this particular draft coming into next season, I understand now why, you know, why the jazz made the deal they did at the deadline to Danny Age getting them down into a situation where they can tank a little more. I, I can see now why Oklahoma City with that kind of like, let's trade Mike Muscala out of here kind of deal where it's like there's just a very good chance you getting a very good player at the top of this draft.

And it's just not something that we see very often. Yeah, but I will say every year, especially over the last few, it feels like, oh my God, what an incredible draft class. Because prospects are getting better. Like think about the combination we had last year. Palo's this 610 freakish, high level ball handler, difficult shot maker, playmaker, while he's, you know, 250 pounds and super athletic. And Chet is this.

insane rim protector seven foot who can also shoot 40% from deep and is quick positionally and is comfortable handling the ball. And the year before that, we have Cade, who's this incredible big ball handler, shotmaker, playmaker had it all as a prospect. Evan Mobley, insane defensive weapon with legit offensive skill. It's like prospects are just getting better. The game is evolving. And big picture, I'm incredibly excited for how that looks because a six, seven guy before, I don't know, maybe wouldn't have had that kind of ball handling. responsibility, the kind of time to build up that playmaking potential that a guy like a man Thompson has. So it's very exciting. I'm excited for this draft and it's nice to have that on top

of an incredibly exciting home stretch to this NBA season. Have you watched any Bronny James? A little bit. Did you see that thing this morning from ESPN that Jonathan Gavoni sees him as a top 10 draft prospect. That surprises me, but I would have to dig in more to confidently speak. I do know that people are getting higher on Brani as a legit prospect. The one thing that was interesting to me there is like the focal points where his perimeter shooting and his on ball defense, which are two things that I've seen in the little bits and pieces that I've watched of him.

But like to have a guard that isn't considered like a star level initiator to be considered a top 10 pick feels a little bit of a stretch to me. me. So when we get to the point where, I don't know who he's going to sign with, I'm not even sure if he's picked a school yet. I think he's still undecided. But like when he, when I do get an opportunity to watch him in college, that's going to be the number one thing I'm watching because that's going to be the thing at the guard position that's going to be a prerequisite to him being a lottery pick in my opinion. All right, guys, that is all we have for today. As always, we sincerely appreciate your support. We're going to be starting things back up tomorrow

night on AMP right after the final buzzer of Lakers Warriors. And then it's going to be a grind for the next three and a half months, tons and tons of basketball. We are very, very excited. The volume. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier.

This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel, help an acapella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged.

It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds, I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, what's good, y'all? You're listening to Learn the Hard Way with your favorite therapist and hosts Kear Games. This space is about black men's experiences,

having honest conversations that's really not safe to have anywhere, but you're having them with a licensed professional who knows what he's doing. How many? How many people are you? How many people? men carry a suit or armor. It signals to the world that you not to be played with. And just because you have the capability that does not mean that you need to, listen to learn the hard way on the IHard radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. This is an IHart podcast.

Guaranteed human.