The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Hoops Tonight - LeBron James & Lakers eliminate Stephen Curry & Warriors in Game 6

Episode Date: May 13, 2023

Jason Timpf reacts to LeBron James and the Los Angeles Lakers defeating Stephen Curry and the Golden State Warriors in Game 6 of the Western Conference semifinals. Jason breaks down LeBron's 30-point performance, what's next for Steph, Klay, and the Warriors, and the Lakers' matchup against Nikola Jokic and the Denver Nuggets in the Western Conference Finals. #volume #herdSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. Another podcast from some SNL, late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter.

Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. On The Look Back at it podcast. From 1979, that was a big moment for me. 84 was big to me.

I'm Sam Jay. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick a year, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. With our friends, fellow comedians, and favorite authors. Like Mark Lamont Hill on the 80s. 84 was a wild year. It was a wild year. I don't think there's a more important year for black people.

Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me, Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, my basketball and college football journey, or my career in sports media. Well, now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifers Show. This is a place for raw, unfilled conversations with athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard,

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Happy Friday, everybody. Round two coverage of the NBA playoffs here at Hoops Tonight. It's brought to you by Chase Freedom Unlimited. How do you cash back? Well, Los Angeles Lakers win in dominating fashion over the Golden State Warriors in game six. To end that series, I have so many thoughts of vintage LeBron James performance, Anthony Davis magnificent defensively, once again, Laker guards carrying the offense for various stretches.

Just an all-around really impressive performance from the Lakers. We're going to dive into that. We're going to dive into a little bit of a look ahead for the Lakers into the next round. Not going to do a full series preview yet, but we're going to look ahead a little bit. And then talk a little bit about the Steph LeBron rivalry and a brief look ahead for the Golden State Warriors, which just got a little bit more interesting because of a report that just dropped from Shams Sharania. So lots to get into. You guys know the drill before we get started, subscribe to the volumes YouTube channel, so you don't miss any more of our videos. Follow me on Twitter at underscore Jason LT, so you guys don't miss any show announcements. And last but not least, if for whatever reason you guys miss one of these videos and you can't get back over to YouTube to finish, don't forget, you can find them wherever you get your podcasts under hoops tonight. All right, let's talk some basketball. So the reason why I picked the Lakers to win in six and didn't go off of that pick is I've grown very familiar with this team covering them over the course of the season. and they have a tendency to conserve energy for these big defensive bursts.

And game four in particular was kind of concerning at first when I was watching it live. It felt like their offense really got bogged down. They were really struggling in pick and roll. But I'm a big believer in trusting film. The film is where you learn more about the game because you can stop and watch the same possession three or four times in a row and pick up on all the little rotations and all the little details that take place on a possession. And when I went back and watched game four again, I was super encouraged on the Lakers front

because I did not think they brought a great defensive effort. As a matter of fact, as we look back through the series, they'd have these like weird quarters and halves where they'd give up a ton of points, but then they'd have these halves at a time where they would lock in. And over the course of the series, after the first half of game six, they ended up holding the Warriors under 50 points and a half, five times in a series. And so in the series. So when I looked at game five and just kind of the way they were defending in that first half,

I felt pretty good about them in front of their home crowd, bringing the requisite defensive effort and closing the deal. That set, they made it, at Darwin Hayham made a very interesting adjustment. He moved Dennis Schroeder into the starting lineup for Jared Vanderbilt, in large part because that was their best lineup in this series. The three-guard lineup has been an issue for the Lakers a lot over the course the last couple of years because of LeBron and Anthony Davis kind of coasting through games and not really engaging themselves physically to cover for the lack of size.

But in this series, that's actually been one of their best lineups coming into the night. There were plus five, not net, but plus five total on the scoreboard in 18 minutes. And so he leaned on his best lineup. And that lineup absolutely dominated the Warriors in the first shift to start this game. And then again, towards the end of the first half, and then again to start the second half before Dennis Schroeder got ejected. So it was smart for Darvin Ham to lean on his best guys. That's set. It only works if you get a vintage effort out of LeBron James to go with the consistent

effort you've been getting out of Anthony Davis. And you know what's funny? And like, we don't talk a ton about my kind of history of being a fan of LeBron on the show. We kind of just focused on the basketball, right? But like, LeBron is the player that got me to fall in love with the game of basketball, as I've told you guys before. And for me personally, what's been so interesting about rooting for him. And I'm sure you Warriors fans have felt a little bit like this with Steph over the years. But I always felt like going into a big game that LeBron James was going to play great. And it's been, like I said, a super interesting experience as a fan because it's kind of, it kind of gives you like a little bit less anxiety heading into these bigger types of games, right?

And we're talking about a postseason run where LeBron James is averaging under 30, under 23 points per game for the first time in his playoff career. He's shooting a percentage nine points below what he shot in the 2020 playoff run. He's going through an uncharacteristic jump shooting slump. So many things not going well for LeBron. The only thing I really noticed on tape is he's definitely trying to conserve energy as much as possible. I think that stems from the foot injury and him just realizing that he's going to have to do

so much down the line and his team is talented enough to carry him through these certain stretches of the game, so he holds it in reserve. You saw that a lot in this game, right? First shift to set the tone of the game. He's attacking Andrew Wiggins in the post. He's getting downhill. He's scoring at the rim. He's creating shots for his teammates. Super aggressive, 27 to 10 lead. The rest of the first half, he kind of just chills. And I've grown to notice with him that that's how he kind of conserves energy. Second half, all half, just attacking in the post, attacking by bringing Steph up into high pick and roll, by bringing Jordan Poole up into high pick and roll, pushing at every single transition opportunity he had, absolutely dominating the defensive

glass and flying around just in general in his rotations to make plays, closing out to shooters on the weak side, offering help at the rim. It was just an unbelievably dominant LeBron James' performance. 30 points, nine rebounds, and nine assists on 14 shots. His first 30-point game of the postseason. You don't think this game mattered to LeBron James a lot. First 30-point game in this postseason when his team needed it most wasn't settling for stupid. I thought he took two tough fadeaways in the first half. Other than that, I loved every single shot he took in this game. And the craziest part is that I just believed going into the game that that's what he was going to do. How insane is that that in 20

seasons with all of this mileage and undergoing the type of circumstances he's been dealing with in this playoff run that I just knew LeBron was going to play great. And to me, that's a testament to LeBron's greatness and what he's been able to accomplish in this league. The most dependably great playoff player in the history of the NBA. He's less reliant on shot variants than anybody else in the NBA. And the most interesting thing with this particular team is he's been able to evolve into whatever the team needs him to be.

he can for 20 minutes at a time just be a screener and roll to the rim did a ton of that in game four but then when his team needs him to take on on ball responsibilities he can he's done it a lot out of the post in this series but they're at the end and you saw it a little bit at the end of game four when he was kind of setting up Lonnie Walker on Steph Curry

but just at the top of the key calling the guy that he thinks is the worst defender on the floor into the screen and just either getting downhill or getting the little hedge there was a three-party corner that Lonnie hit in the fourth quarter where he brings Steph into the screen. And Steph is literally begging for Clay Thompson to come over as Steph is hedging and trying to recover, just throws behind the back pass to Lonnie, knocks down the three. Those are little surgical things in the half court to generate good shots against an elite

defense that make him the type of reliably great player that he can be. And then on the defensive end, he can switch out onto Steph Curry on the perimeter. he can rotate on the back end of shooters. He can control the defensive glass. He is the ultimate Swiss Army knife. And it's just insane to me that he still, he was by far the best player on the floor tonight. It wasn't close.

And he didn't need to be that for the first five games. But when he needed to be that tonight, he was able to tap into that. And I just can't believe it. And again, like I, I've been critical of LeBron a lot. lot over the course the last couple of years, just by nature of the way that the show works, right? Like, we're going to talk about the basketball.

LeBron is my one big blind spot with the NBA. I grew up in Tucson. I'm not a fan of any particular team. I root for the Lakers because I'm a fan of LeBron. And so when we're on the show, and what do I do with everybody? Like every player, regardless of who they are, what team they're on, they're playing well, going to point it out, playing poorly, going to point it out. And there have been long stretches over the course the last few years where LeBron is coasted or left meat on the bone. I think we can look back in retrospect and say that it's just all about conserving energy for when he thinks he absolutely needs it.

Because that was one of the most dominant two-way performances I've ever seen. And he just has not been at that level at all in this playoff run before that. Just unbelievable stuff from LeBron. We're going to get into him a lot more as we get into the series preview for Lakers Nuggets. But I just wanted to give him a shout out tonight. again, you knew he was going to be great tonight. And that's what sets him apart from really anybody else in NBA history. And he's got a chance to gain even more ground as time goes on.

Anthony Davis, I thought, was the best player in the series overall. Obviously, LeBron James demonstrated that he can tap into that for any brief stint that they need for one game here, one quarter like he did in the fourth quarter against Memphis in game four. He's shown the ability to tap in when he needs to. In terms of the night in and night out, dependably great, like I said, on a game-to-game basis, Anthony Davis was the best player in the series. I told you guys after Janus lost in the first round that that best player in the world title is up for grabs. To me, Anthony Davis is in the poll position.

I know Nicola Yocch has been great, but I have a rule. Don't call a guy best player in the world until he has the Larry O'Brien trophy. End of story for me. And Anthony Davis has a Larry O'Brien trophy. He did it for 16 wins in the 2020 bubble, including against Nikola Yokic. So for me, I'd be happy to give Yokic that recognition. Once he has the Larry O.B., he does not. Anthony Davis just took the title away from Steph Curry, in my opinion.

I think you have to call Anthony Davis the best player in the world right now, which is crazy. Crazy redemption from being so down on his luck with injuries, where we were on pace for three consecutive seasons where he probably, like, where you were, as a Laker fan, you were sitting there like, he's this dude's not going to be available again going from there to being in my opinion the best player in the world what a turnaround and ever again in Colin coward and I talked about this I think a week and a half ago or so but I think it's a super interesting concept every adjustment in this

series had to do with anthony davis every warrior adjustment was to try to pull anthony davis away from the paint every laker adjustment was to try to keep anthony davis in the paint as much as possible that was the chess match of the series. Every move had to do with Anthony Davis. And that's what made him the best player in the series. And we're going to talk about Steph here in a minute. I thought Steph had an extremely difficult task throughout this entire series and we'll get to that.

But you know what? Like I'm a big believer in rewarding guys for winning. And Anthony Davis, I think, deserves a recognition for now. Laker guards. Austin Reeves, great defense all night, timely scoring, timely playmaking. an incredible half-court heave that completely changed the tone and tenor of the first half of this game. The Warriors are like, just, I will say this, Warriors fans. Obviously, I've never rooted against LeBron, so I don't know what that's like.

But I have never feared a basketball player or team as with rooting interest the way I feared that Golden State team. I was joking with my wife. I was like, they're up 19 in the fourth quarter and I'm still nervous. Like, it's crazy. And I just, I have so much respect for that franchise. The number of punches. They were down 27 to 10 and got it back to five. But like everything was going the Lakers way.

They dominated the offensive glass. They forced the Lakers into turnovers. They packed a paint, forced him into bad shots, got out, got going in transition. Dante DiBenzhenzo had a run. I am just so blown away by how good. how well-run and coached that Warriors team is. And we're going to talk about them a little bit more in a minute as it pertains to their future. But I can just say definitively, I'm so glad that that series is over because that was a hell

experience for the one team that I have a rooting interest in in the NBA, which is the Los Angeles Lakers. Man. But Austin Reeves was awesome that he, I thought, changed the tone from that first half. DeAngelo Russell up and down as he usually is, but he made some big shots. Dennis Schroeder, again, one of the worst objections I've ever seen in the history of sports with him talking a little bit of trash to Draymond Green and getting kicked out of an elimination game as Steph Curry's primary defender. But I thought he did a great job defensively on Steph Curry for two and a half quarters. And then Lonnie Walker, some timely three-point shots during that run after Dennis went out. Obviously not the same defensive player that Dennis is.

Struggled a lot defensively over the course of the last two games, but made enough shots to make sure that the game kept that tone of being kind of like stiff-arm distance, than being really, really competitive. One of the underrated things about the Laker guards is, for instance, LeBron James, and we saw this with Steph Curry. So Steph Curry gets targeted on defense the entire game, right? And in those stretches, it's easy to be like, oh, Steph, weak defender, getting targeted, you know, and don't get me wrong, like when you're attacking the Warriors and the other guys on the court are Clay Thompson, Andrew Wiggins, and Dray Monger.

You're like, it really is your best bet, you know, to target Steph Curry, just because he's the smaller guy that's not as good of an athlete, right? Even though he has turned himself into an average to above average defender, he's just your best option. But the bigger part of it has to do with his workload. The only chance the Warriors ever had to generate a quality shot against that Laker defense was through Steph Curry. That's an incredible amount of pressure offensively and an incredibly large workload

offensively. And so he needs to save energy and he's doing that on the defensive end. I mean, a lot of people have been critical of LeBron or with that over the years. But I've said the same thing with LeBron. Like on some of these teams where Anthony Davis is hurt and LeBron's out there playing, like he has to conserve energy defensively because he's their only hope to score on the other end. So I'm not going to be critical of Steph in that specific situation. But Anthony Davis and LeBron, that's the opposite form of that dynamic.

Austin, Dilo, Dennis, and Lonnie bring enough offensive punch that Anthony Davis and LeBron James can literally focus. on the defensive end of the floor. Anthony Davis was pretty much not involved in that game offensively, so he was able to save all of his energy for the defensive end. That's a luxury brought on by a really talented guard corps from the Lakers. Looking forward for the Lakers, like I talked about with Denver, they just check a lot of boxes that I look for in championship contenders.

I'm going to pick them over the Nuggets, probably in six games. I'm going to do a deeper dive into the film before I finalize that, but that's where I'm leaning. And the main reason why is they literally check all the boxes. They have an outstanding perimeter defender in Dennis Schroeder, an outstanding wing defender in Jared Vanderbilt, a power wing defender in Rui Hachamur that you can throw up bigger, stronger guys, and they have the best defensive player in the league in Anthony Davis

and a Swiss Army knife in LeBron James alongside him, and the other guards just do good enough, right? Kind of like what Jamal Murray does for the Nuggets. They just do good enough defensively. on the offensive end of the floor, they generate high-quality shots through rim pressure, which is consistent in something you can generate from game to game. And they have two different types of complementary superstars. They can run action together, similar to Murray and Yokic.

They both can operate out of the post to get shots close to the rim. And as LeBron James has demonstrated, when the chips are down, he is able to go to a level offensively that allows him to run the offense almost entirely. And so they check a ton of boxes, and they have every bit as good a chance to win the title as anybody else does remaining in this field. Looking at the Steph LeBron thing. So I tweeted before the game. I joked that this was the talking head bowl. And the reason why I said that is this game tonight, this series, is inevitably going to be used as fodder by, you know, debate shows, everybody in your social media,

feeds, just when you're talking sports at the bar, at the water cooler, this is going to be the series that colors the way that this rivalry is discussed. Now, for me, it was already set in stump. I thought LeBron James was a better basketball player than Steph Curry in 2016, in 2017, 2018, 2019, 2020, in 2015. The only time I ever thought Steph surpassed LeBron was in that brief window there from 2021 forward after LeBron started to decline a little bit physically, right? I just thought LeBron was better. And I thought that the Warriors won because they had better teams. And then LeBron obviously got 2016 from them before Kevin Durant joined the town.

I thought that was pretty clear. I think most people outside of the Golden State Warriors fan base agree with that. But Steph fans feel differently. I know most Steph fans think that Steph was better than LeBron in 2015, as good as LeBron in 2016, as good as LeBron in 2017-18, better since. I know, and look, like everyone, this is not something that's just really easy to measure. Everyone's got their own belief system, right? But for me, it was already set in stone. So the way I was always going to remember the Steph LeBron rivalry is that LeBron was the better player in the era and during those years.

But at this phase, now that Steph is 35, I think he is a better player. And, you know, like when you actually look at the schemes and what was taking place in that series, Steph played better basketball in this series than LeBron did for six games. Now, in game six, LeBron was the best player on the floor by a mile. And he deserves all that recognition. But to me, whatever happened in this series was not going to change that dynamic. But on those debate shows, it was going to change everything. If Steph wins this series, it's he's four and one against LeBron.

You know, that's your talking point until the end of time, right? Whereas LeBron wins the series, it's LeBron's two and one against Steph without Kevin Durant. and his one loss was when Kevin Loving, Kyrie Irving, both got hurt. Right? So that stupid low-brow analysis, you guys know how much I hate that stuff, but that's how this game was always going to color that rivalry. Inevitably, whoever won was going to have those bragging rights. So what really happened here?

Like I said, I believe LeBron James, the second best player of all time, was better than Steph throughout the Warriors dynasty in the late 2010s, right? since then LeBron has aged a lot. He's injured, not the same player. I think Steph's a better player than LeBron now. But now LeBron has a better team. And you saw that. The better team won the series.

And that's why it's so stupid to make those arguments during those years when Steph has Kevin Freakin Durant and Andre Guadala and Clay Thompson and Draymond Green and all those guys on the team. It just doesn't make sense to make those arguments because you put yourself in a situation where now those arguments come back to bite you in 2023 when LeBron James, when he's old as shit, has a better team, and he beats you. That's why I hate talking about this stuff on this show. That's why we don't do that. What do we do on the show? We talk about the basketball. The better basketball team won this

series, just like the better basketball team won in 2015, 17, 18. And I thought the better team won in 2016 when all the Cavs players were healthy. It's a team sport. LeBron and Steph have both contributed to those teams at a great extent. I think LeBron's a better player. brings a great deal of offensive manipulation and scoring, and he can dominate games defensively. He was just a level above what Steph could do. I think Steph is my second favorite player ever. He's been the second best player in this era.

I think he's clearly better than Kevin Durant, for instance. So it's not an insult to Steph. He's just up against the dude who's in the same conversation with Michael Jordan. How many guys are in conversations with Michael Jordan? Zero, except for LeBron. So there's no shame in the way this all went down. But I'm not going to be making sweeping declarations about this rivalry, because to me the rivalry already was what it was.

LeBrah was a better player, Steph had better teams. To me, that was the rivalry. And here's the thing, too, I'm not going to convince you guys. I've never had a conversation with a Steph Curry fan. I talk with a half dozen warrior fans or so on Twitter that I've met over the years, and never had a single one of them have a conversation. with me and then go, oh, you know what, you're right, Jason. LeBron's better. I'm not changing your mind. You guys feel the way you feel. You should. Routing for Steph,

rooting against Steph was freaking terrifying. Like, I get it. I understand why so many people are a big fan of him. I'm a huge fan of him. But no one's changing anybody's minds. I'm just glad for LeBron's sake that he won this series because I do think it would have provided fodder for people to try to misrepresent what happened over the course of this era. All right, looking forward for the Warriors. Like I said, I was terrified. the whole game. Steph Curry's ridiculous. I've never seen a player warp a defense the way that he does, but they need some help. I know that's the random word that we throw out a lot in this debate, but it's just the truth. You couldn't get anything out of Clay Thompson down the stretch of the series,

couldn't get anything out of Jordan Poole in the entire series, and too often the Warriors were stuck in a predicament where they had to play defensive personnel at the expense of their spacing. We also know, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that if you give Steph space, no one can keep you. him in front without throwing multiple defenders at him, and no one can take away threes from him without throwing multiple defenders at him. So moving forward for the Warriors, you have to understand the value of what you have there. Like Anthony Davis is the best player in the world now. Steph is right there next to him. So if you have that guy and you have the pieces with which to build a roster around him that makes him a championship contender,

you are obligated to do so, in my opinion. Now, we, a sham shan, reported immediately after the game that the warriors are leaning towards bringing back Draymond. Great news. Guess what? You ditch Draymond. You immediately lose your championship contention. I've been talking about that all season. You cannot win a title without legitimate rim protection.

Draymond's that guy. He's done it four times. It's not his fault that this series went the way it did. It's the rest of the roster. So you've got to bring Draymond Green back, and I'm glad the Warriors have noticed that. Clay Thompson apparently is considering taking a pay cut to stay on board. That's great news. I still think Clay Thompson can help.

I just don't think you can run your offense through him against higher tier defenses as you saw. Like, you wouldn't really getting good looks in this game. But, you know, if you can get him to stay on at a discount and make sense to keep him there. Andrew Wiggins, obviously still a vitally important piece. So who are the odd men out there? As we look at the young guys,

I think Moses Moody demonstrated that he can be an impact role player in the NBA playoffs. Defends at a high level, play super physical, was just dead eye with his corner threes. Moses Moody, I think, is worth keeping. But Jonathan Caminga and Jordan Poole are the two guys that I come back to. Look, Jordan Poole was amazing in last year's postseason run. As Clay Thompson said, you don't win the title without Jordan Poole. So I want to give those guys, you know, I want to make sure that he's remembered properly as a champion.

That said, he's declined, especially on the defensive end of the floor. And by virtue of the way his salary is structured, he's your best bet to try to bring in higher quality role players. So I think the move is you've got to package any draft compensation that you have, and Jordan Poole and Jonathan Caminga, and bring back two-way role players, players that can both shoot and defend at their position, so that you can give Steph the space to operate. This tiered system where you always have one big on the floor,

either Looney or Draymont, that works. It's when they have multiple non-shooters on the floor that the Lakers were really able to stagnate them offensively. there were possessions in this game where like AD would end up on Moses Moody and Steph is getting, Jordan Poole's beating dudes off the dribble and making layups. You can space good defenses out. You just need the right personnel. So I'm glad to hear that they're prioritizing the right guys,

but it's time to go all in. We talked about after last year, they held some chips back because they thought they had enough. At the time, I didn't think they had enough. I was wrong. Joe Lacob was right. They won the title. But this year it has been,

become clear that they don't have enough. So if you've got one of the best players in the world and you've got assets at your disposal, you're obligated to surround them with the talent he needs to compete for a title. And so I hope that they do so this summer. You know what I'd love to see? Lakers Warriors again in the playoffs next year.

And then maybe we can have one more giant legacy debate on all the talking head shows for a full day. All right, guys, that is all I have for right now. After I record this, I'm going to be recording a video on Nick's Heat. that'll be up tomorrow morning when you guys wake up. So keep an eye on that in your feeds. As always, I appreciate you guys. Sunday, we're going with Colin after game seven of Celtic Sixers.

And then probably sometime on Monday morning, I'll have your first series preview in the Western Conference for the conference finals involving the Nuggets and the Lakers. I appreciate you guys, and I'll see you tomorrow. The volume. Another podcast from some SNL late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends,

me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

On the Look Back at a podcast. For 1979, that was a big moment for me. 84 was big to me. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick a year, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. With our friends, fellow comedians, and favorite authors. Like Mark Lamont Hill on the 80s. 84 was a wild year.

I mean, it was a wild year. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me. Liver Taylor the 4th.

You might have seen the skits, my basketball and college football journey, or my career in sports media. Well, now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, the Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfilled conversations with athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. So let's get to it. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeard Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast.

And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. IHeart Podcasts. Guaranteed human.