The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Hoops Tonight - LeBron James & Russ on Lakers, Kyrie defends himself, James Harden down "100 pounds"

Episode Date: September 27, 2022

Jason Timpf reacts to the NBA's media day including LeBron James and Russell Westbrook on the Lakers upcoming season, Kyrie Irving and Kevin Durant breaking their months long silence following an offseason of drama with the Nets, James Harden reportedly losing weight ahead of 76ers' camp, Zion Williamson reportedly being in excellent shape for the Pelicans, and Deandre Ayton's awkward answer when asked about returning to the Suns. #Volume #HerdSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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getting their picture taken, interviews, all the good stuff. The Twitter timeline was full of NBA basketball. It felt good. That is the day that kicks off nine months of NBA basketball going through mid-June, and I could not be more excited. Here's the plan for this week. Today we're going to cover Media Day. But inevitably, I'm going to miss some stuff because there's just hundreds of different quotes

some pieces of information that we're going to get today. Tomorrow, we're going to focus on the Warriors Media Day, as well as anything that I missed today. Today it's going to be a lot of Lakers, a lot of nets. We'll also hit some Sixers. We'll hit some suns. We'll hit some pelicans. Tomorrow is going to be Warriors and anything else that I missed.

We're also going to continue our power rankings this week. Number four will be tomorrow, and then 3-2-1 will go on Wednesday, Thursday, Friday. Then a week from today, we'll have eight games worth of preseason basketball to react to. So we'll be back into our game breakdowns at that point. But today is going to be NBA Media Day, largely focused on the Lakers and the Nets. You guys know the drill before we get started. Subscribe to the volumes YouTube channel so you don't miss any more of our videos. Follow me on Twitter at underscore Jason LT.

So you guys don't miss any show announcements. Last but not least, if you miss one of these shows and you can't get back over to YouTube to finish them, you can always find them wherever you get your podcasts under hoops tonight. Quickly before we get started, as you gear up for fall, It's never been more important to have the right people on your team to make sure your small business is humming on all cylinders. LinkedIn Jobs is here to help you find the right people faster and for free. My wife helps run a small business here in Tucson,

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Post your job for free at LinkedIn.com slash temp. That's LinkedIn.com slash temp to post your job for free. Terms and conditions apply. And on that note, let's talk some basketball. We're going to start with the Lakers, and we're going to start with Russ, but it's going to be quick, because as you guys know, I have a rule. We'll get to that in a second. So there were two quotes in particular that stood out to me from not just this media day,

but also from this weird article that came out from ESPN. I think it was last night or the night before that was kind of like an interview from him going over this offseason. So first of all, the quote from Media Day. he said whether they want me here or not doesn't really matter my job is to be a professional and show up to work as i've always done emphasis there on as i've always done end quote in the woge article he had a very similar quote responding to a very similar question he said quote i think the most important thing is that i show up for work and i do the job like i have always done it. Be professional and go out and play my ass off and compete, end quote. So before we go any further, this season I'm going to have a one-minute rule for Russ.

And we don't actually have that little timer thing set up yet. But it's just, I can, he's a very frustrating basketball player for me. And I coach the game. And so I, my job is to pay extra close attention to the little details of the game of basketball. And those specific things are things that Russ struggles with mightily. And so I find him to be a very frustrating basketball player to cover. So I could spend a lot of time complaining about him this season, but I really don't want to. It takes away from the show. I think it's actually a bad thing.

I'm not interested in that. So we have a rule this year when Russ stuff comes up. I'm going to go for a minute and then it's dead and we're not allowed to talk about him for the rest of the show, at least not in a focused way. So here's my quick like two cents on this Russell Westbro. Media Day and article from last night. What I've always done, which is the key word or key phrase from those two quotes that I gave you, what I've always done means that he still hasn't acknowledged the problem. All of the other quotes from Media Day, quotes about his role, whether or not he's

going to start or come off the bench, conversations he's had with LeBron James and Anthony Davis, conversations he's had with Darwin-Han, friendship with Patrick Bell. Everly. Any of that doesn't mean anything unless Russell Westbrook acknowledges the problem. And he has not done so. He is in denial in that aspect. He was in the season ending press conference to end last year, and he was this year in the season starting press, season starting press conference as we expected him to be. What does that mean? I do not expect him to change. I expect this year to be more of the same. I think he thinks, that if he makes more of his layups, or if he makes more of his pull-up jumpers, and he has

fewer turnovers, that means that he's fixed the problem. That is not the case. The problem went so much deeper than any of that. And I'm not going to get into it here, because like I said, the time limit. So the bottom line is, he has not acknowledged the problem. Therefore, I don't think there will be change. If he does change, it will be because he's acknowledged that problem. And that's all I'm going to say about Russ for right now. We're going to move on to Rob Polinka because he was the one I was most interested in hearing from today, mainly just because he's the guy in the chair. He's the guy holding the steering wheel, guiding this thing down the road.

And he had a job this summer, and that job was to get better role players around LeBron James and Anthony Davis, which he's done a little bit of, and to get Russell Westbrook off the roster. And he did not accomplish that goal. And so I was really curious to hear what he would say today. And we're going to get into that right now. So a couple of quotes quickly about the Russell Westbrook thing from Rob Polinka.

He said, quote, Russell Westbrook is a great part of our team. One of the greats to ever play the game. And I think Coach Hamm is going to bring another level out of him, end quote. That is a continuation of that denial of reality on Rob's part. If you're banking on things like Russ figuring it out, or Kyrie Irving coming next summer to fill up your cap space, that's a severe case of wishful thinking. Yes, they both might happen.

And if they do, you'll be in great shape. Like, if Russ does figure it out this year, like, yeah, that's going to solve a lot of the Lakers' problems. If Kyrie Irving comes in signs next year for whatever cap space they have, that's going to solve a lot of their problems. But what is the more likely scenario? Is it more likely that those things happen? Or is it more likely that Russ is more of the same this year

and that Kyrie ends up resigning with the Nets or with somebody else who will be able to offer him more money next summer? That's far more likely. So you're banking, you're putting all your chips in the middle for two very unlikely variables. And to me, that's just bad management. It's a dangerous gamble. After that, he went on this long kind of meandering rant

talking about how LeBron James and him recommitting to the franchise via the extension for three years was the signaling of their partnership and how the two of them were in this together and that there was a mutual trust. And he, in that rant, elaborated about how he understands the pressure of having LeBron James,

one of the greatest basketball players of all time under roster control. And he talked about how that implied that he inevitably is willing to spend the draft picks. But he said he's going to hold back and wait to do so until the right deal comes around. And that's been the company line all summer. We won't give up the picks unless we become a contender. We're waiting for the right deal. We don't like the Indiana deal. We don't like the jazz deal.

We think we're going to get something better if we wait. I've even heard intel from people who are involved in those trade negotiations that the Lakers seem to believe they can get Kyrie Irving via trade during this season, which again is that's a really pie-in-the-sky type of mentality. But the reality is the pursuit of the perfect deal is costing the Lakers elsewhere. For starters, the pursuit of the perfect deal is unrealistic because Russell Westbrook is involved in that actively hurt your negotiation position. The Lakers are desperate and that actively hurts your negotiation position.

The Lakers don't have the leverage to get a great deal, to get great value for those two draft picks. It's the reality because those two draft picks are attached to a negative asset in Russell Westbrook, a player that none of the other 29 teams want, it would likely buy out or send home if they got him in a trade. That takes away from the value of the draft picks. You know, everyone talks about like, oh, Boyan-Begdanovitch, he ended up going to the Detroit Pistons, and they didn't even send a draft pick. Yeah, that's right, because Boyan-Begon, Boyan Bogdanovich's market value is very different from what the Lakers price is.

Because there's two different things that set the price. Market value helps set the price, how good the players are. That sets the price. But your leverage also sets the price. Sometimes market value is different from leverage. I've been dealing with this. I don't work in real estate anymore, but that's what I did before this. And I worked in real estate during the crazy boom over the last couple of years.

years. And the market value of a house might have been $2.50. But if there are 15 people negotiating and the leverage is in the hand of the seller because he's got 15 offers, then it's going to inevitably bid things up above what market value is. And the truth of the matter is, the Lakers, because they were desperate, because they have LeBron James in year 20, and because they're offloading Russell Westbrook, those three things undercut their leverage and made it so the market price for these deals is different for them than it is for other teams. And that's why they can't get Boyan-Begdanovich for the same price that the Detroit Pistons can. And that's why they might have to include their draft picks in order to get a deal. But that's the only one side of this.

Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque, others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds.

I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care where you're saying. Yep, that's me. Cliver Taylor the 4th.

You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment. And the next, we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose. and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast.

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Let's say that there is a better deal in the future. Let's say that around the deadline, there's a better deal. Or next summer, they think they can get more for some combination of picks or cap space or whatever it is. Whatever you view in the future as the better outcome, opportunity cost still plays a role here. Losing training camp as an opportunity to build continuity with your players. That hurts you. That is a loss of value. There's not a lot of practice during the regular season. If you make a deal at the deadline, you might get four or five practices the rest of the season to sort things out. So not getting the deal done this summer cost you in value.

You're losing a season of LeBron's prime, especially if you wait into the summer. Or if you wait to the deadline and it hurts your seeding so much that you lose in a first round series against the Warriors because you're a seven seed or an eight seed and you didn't take this regular season seriously with an eye towards the future. That's value. Your 20 of LeBron, your 21 of LeBron, and your 22 of LeBron

will experience significant declines in all likelihood. That's just father time. That's just how it works. That's part of the value and you weight it. How much does that counteract the value proposition

of an alleged deal? If I factor in LeBron's age and continuity and all of those things, it hurts you. So maybe you can get something better than Boyan-Begdanovich, or let's just say Miles Turner, because he's gone now. Let's just say Miles Turner and Buddy Healed.

Maybe you can get something that's 20% better, but you're going to lose 20% in value in LeBron aging and continuity and all of those things. That's what I don't understand about this approach. And the bottom line is, I think it's because they want a star. I think they think that a star is going to fix their problems. and for whatever reason they've never been able to wrap their brains around the concept that LeBron James, Anthony Davis, and good role players

equals a basketball team that has a chance to win an NBA championship. It's always been that simple. The one year it all worked out was the year they didn't chase after. Well, they tried, and they literally tried to. They tried to go after Kauai, and it didn't work out. And as a result, they had a LeBron James, Anthony Davis, a bunch of role players, and they won an NBA championship. ever since then they've been looking for the third guy.

First it was Schroeder, then it was Russell Westbrook, now it's Kyrie Irving. Their endless pursuit of that, in the face of evidence that is to the contrary, is why they're in this predicament. So the whole thing surrounding Rob Polinka's in his strategy with these trades does not make any sense to me.

And I think it's actively hurting their prospects moving forward. One last note on the Rob Polinka front. There was a little moment where him and Darwin-Hammer talking about shooting, which is, you know, look, in the LeBron James Anthony Davis era, the Lakers have never had good shooting. You know, this past season they had some good shooters,

but they still didn't actually perform to that extent because of the fact that they often had to divert to defensive players, right? This year is going to be worse than all of them. This is going to be the worst shooting roster in the NBA this year. This is going to be the worst shooting roster that the LeBron James Anthony Davis era has ever had. This is probably the worst shooting roster that LeBron James has ever played.

played with, a player that has consistently played well alongside good three-point shooters. And this was Rob Polinko's answer when he was asked that. He said that he expects players on the roster to grow and improve. Well, okay then. I hope they do. Because if they don't, it's going to be a problem. Darvin Ham, when he was asked the same question, said, quote, we're not trying to find specialists. We want basketball players, end quote. And you know what's funny? I have a hundred percent believe in that. That basketball ideology is one that I believe in very strongly. You know, especially as the game has gone towards five out and driving kick has been the best way to get good shots, it's been more important ever to have guys that are well-rounded.

You know, a great example of this is like an Andre Guadala versus a Kyle Corver. And I'm not even talking about the defense event. On the offensive end of the floor, it helps to have a guy that can put the basketball on the floor and finish at the rim or drive and kick to players and consistently make the right reads. I agree. It's basketball. You need basketball players. You need guys that are well-rounded. Here's the problem. Not only does this team not have great shooting, they don't have great basketball players outside of LeBron James, Anthony Davis, Patrick Beverly, and Dennis Schroeder. The role players, the guys playing on the wing,

Like I like Austin Reeves. I think he's going to be a good fifth starter in this league for a long time when he figures out his shot. That he's good there. But Troy Brown Jr., Juan Tuscano Anderson, if you're relying on those guys to be good basketball players, meaning consistently making the right decisions as driving kick players on offense, I think you're setting yourself up to be disappointed.

Look, Austin Reeves is a great example of this concept. Austin Reeves did not shoot exceptionally well last year. But he was great attacking closeouts, and he always made the right read. That's being a basketball player. That's value. But you need, if you're not looking for shooters, fine, but find more of those guys. That's why I wanted them to make the deal, whether it was the Utah deal or the Pacers deal. Bring in some more basketball players that can come in and help you on the offensive end of the floor.

The bottom line is, is this team is not good enough. you had an opportunity to make them better. Rob Polinka did, and they did it. Even if your reasoning was sound, which I don't believe it is, this team is still not good enough. So that means you're punting. You are punting LeBron's age 38 season with Anthony Davis flanking him.

Any perceived improvement by a more measured approach, by waiting for the future and something that might be better, is undercut by the opportunity cost. of losing training camp, of potentially losing a season of LeBron James's career. Even if you get something a little better, it's undercut by the loss of time. And this team has been set up to fail. And so it was a frustrating media day. I had a feeling Rob Polinket would come out and say the things he did, and he did.

And you know what? Like maybe it all work out. Maybe Russell Westbrook will evolve and become a winning basketball player. maybe Kyrie Irving comes at the deadline or comes next summer and then everything works out. I just find it extremely unlikely. There was a more likely outcome. Give me LeBron James, Anthony Davis, Patrick Beverly, Dennis Schroeder, Austin Reeves, Kendrick Nunn, Miles Turner, you know, Damien Jones, Buddy Healed.

I can win a championship with that group. But the hypothetical of Kyrie, I can't take that to the bank. and that's why I didn't understand the approach. One last note on media day, LeBron James and Anthony Davis. LeBron was asked about his most important thing coming into this season, and he said, quote, unquote, availability is the most important thing in this league, end quote. LeBron James and Anthony Davis's availability is going to be the thing that determines the outcome of this season,

regardless of anything else. Even if they did make a deal and bring in better players, if LeBron and AD combined to play 90 games, they're going to be a playing team or miss the playoffs. but if they both play 70 plus games, that covers a whole lot of stuff. It keeps Russ in an ancillary role, which gives him at least a better chance of becoming a better role player. It also demonstrates to the front office that this group is something that they can believe in and invest in more by making the traits. And the big guy I want to watch in this department is Anthony Davis.

He said in the press conference that he plans to have a chip on his shoulder this season. I had him 18th in my player rankings. ESPN came out and had him 20th in their player rankings. I think that's fair. He doesn't deserve to be above the players that are in front of him, not with the way he's played even when he's healthy the last couple of years. And when you factor in health, you could argue he should be lower. This is the season that will define Anthony Davis's career.

It's either going to look back at this as Anthony Davis, the guy who quickly became one of the best power forwards of all time, who had a dominant NBA championship winning run in 2020. who then had a couple of bad years with injury and then went right back to kicking everybody's ass or the story is going to be he won the title in 2020 and he never was the same player. This is the season where we find out because once you've done that three times in a row, that's just who you are. If you don't take care of your body and you come into camp out of shape and you play overweight

and you end up suffering a bunch of injuries and you do it in 2021, in 2022, and in 2023, then that's who you are. But if he comes back this season and he kicks everybody's ass, he will categorically explain the previous two years as an outlier. And so the pressure's on AD to get it done.

Moving on to the Nets. So Kyrie said, quote, I didn't appreciate how me being unvaccinated came to be a stigma within my career that I don't want to play. End quote.

Said later on, I gave up four years and a hundred something million dollars to be unvaccinated, end quote. And this is just kind of similar to the Rust thing, just another example of a lack of self-awareness. We were all here watching the team in 2021 when you took two leaves of absence for personal reasons, when you were healthy during the season without telling Steve Nash, just off the face of the earth, forcing your coach to answer tough questions, forcing your teammates to answer tough questions, disrupting the continuity of the team, hurting them, inceding. All of those things are true.

That happened in 2020. You were healthy when the bubble was organized in 2020. You could have gone to play. You chose not to. Any one of those things in a vacuum you can get away with. For instance, if he didn't play in the 2020 bubble, but he played through his contract the next two years, no one's going to give a damn about 2020.

They'll explain it away. Hey, the bubble was weird. The nets weren't very good. KD didn't want to play because he wasn't done rehabbing yet. You know what? It wasn't worth it. Cool. Bam.

You'll get the benefit of the doubt there. If you just did what happened in 2021, but you played in the bubble and you played the entire season vaccinated in 2022. Then everyone's going to go like, hey man, he just had a rough year. Mental health stuff. Needed to spend some. time with family. They'll get it. But no, it's all of them. It's the bubble. It's the, it's the first leave of absence in 2021. It's the second leave of absence in 2021. It's the vaccination thing.

All of those combined to make your reputation. I have no doubt that he would have got his contract that he wanted had he just gone unvaccinated last year. There are a lot of players around the league that did that. Jonathan Isaac did that. It's not like the magic are trying to dump Jonathan Isaac, at least not, not yet. And if they do, it's going to be because of his knee injury. The reality is, his reputation is well earned. And he doesn't see that. And that's, that's the biggest thing that stands in the way of Russell Westbrook and Kyrie Irving in their own self-improvement in this league is acknowledging their own shortcomings. They're just, they go down with the ship. They're in denial. You know, in general, in Nets training,

or Nets Media Day, I was looking at the drama, the drama between Katie and Kairie, right? and everyone said the right things. You know, they asked Steve Nash about it. He said the right things. You know, KD and I are family. This kind of stuff happens with family. We sort it out. You know, Sean Marks, this is a partnership.

If KD wanted to be gone, he'd be gone. KD, I understand the dynamics. I have a ton of trade value. It was going to be tough to move me. Everyone said the right things. But the reality is that damage was done. The Kairi stuff caused damage. the Kevin Durant stuff caused damage, the ultimatum surrounding Sean Marks and Steve Nash, that caused

damage. All of it's still there. How much damage? I don't know. They only know. But there's some amount of damage that was done there emotionally for the people involved. If they win right away and often these issues will sink under the surface. But if the losses start to pile up, everyone will immediately revert back to that damage and remember that damage. So the risk is not gone. Even though they say all the right things, even though everyone is allegedly bought back into this thing, the damage is not gone. If the losses pile up, everyone will circle back to this summer.

So it's on the basketball players to erase this thing. If Ben Simmons, Kyrie, and Kady come out and they beat everybody's ass, no one's going to care about this summer. But make no mistake, the damage is still done and it is not gone. It just can be hidden as long as they're successful. So there were a couple of quick hitters I wanted to hit before we get out of here. Philly. James Hardin said he's been dieting and that he's lost 100 pounds.

He said tweet that. Obviously, he's joking. But I have been the first guy on the James Hardin Revenge Tour take. And I like what I'm seeing so far. Obviously, we need to see real basketball, but I like what we're seeing so far. He did specifically mention dieting. He did specifically mention him being healthy and being able to work out this summer. I did think that was a little strange, though, because the reality is a lot of his health issues were associated with his weight, in my opinion.

But I like what I'm seeing from James Hardin. I think he's poised for a big season, and if it's true that he's lost weight, that's the first step. Speaking of losing weight, Zion Williams and looks good. it's got some muscle definition, less doughy. And for him in particular, it's important on a couple of different levels. Specifically, health, his body will continue to break down if he plays heavy, you know, foot injuries like he had, that's associated with weight. That's impact, that's you landing.

Him being slim will help in that department. And the big one is defensively. I never looked at Zion's weight as an issue on the offensive end of the full. floor, if anything, when you put on weight, you just become more difficult to keep away from the rim. But on the defensive end of the floor, if he's going to cover ground in rotation containing on the perimeter, if he ever is going to be a good backline defender, and if he's going to be able to hold up over the course of an 82 game season and a playoff run, he needed to keep his weight down in order for him to be able to do that. He looks good. Again, same with James Hardin. When it comes

to Zion, and when it comes to James, it's not about the stories. It's not about what you see in media day. It's about what happens on the court, but I like what I'm seeing so far. Last but not least, Phoenix. There was this awkward moment where one of the reporters asked DeAndre Aiton, what he thought when the sons matched the Pacers offer to him this summer. And he said the right thing, but he said it in kind of an awkward way. He was like, I'm glad. I'm glad it was over. Glad to be here. And then the reporter's like, is that all? And he's like, yeah. Just kind of like, dead. bedpan. And there's kind of a weird energy hanging over the Phoenix Suns this season. And we talked

about them in the season previews. I had them at 7th in my power rankings. All the talent is still there. You know, Chris Paul, Devin Booker, McAle Bridges, and Jay, well, Jay Crowder, I guess, is going to be traded, Cam Johnson, whoever it is that slides into that spot in DeAndreighton. They're going to kick a lot of people's asses. They're going to win a lot of regular season basketball games, I believe. But there is a lot brewing under the surface. There's the lack of faith in Chris Paul in his weight, or his health, excuse me, and whether or not he can hold up over the course of the playoff run. There's Devin Booker who had another injury in the playoff run last year,

and he's been dealing with injuries over the course of his career. The DeAndre Aitin's situation. Jay Crowder demanding a trade. There's a lot of just stuff underneath the surface, and it's very similar to Brooklyn. If they come out and they win, it'll be fine. But that's another team to watch where if they start three and five, if they start five and ten,

if things get ugly for whatever reason, which I don't think is likely, but if they get off to a rough start, everyone's going to circle back to the summer. Everyone's going to circle back to the issues. That's just what happens. When things go bad, you look for reasons. You look for scapegoats. And you know what? If it's bad, everyone's going to look at DeAndreit and be like he's not playing defense. He got paid. Now he's not working hard. He didn't even want to be here. That's going to be the kind of stuff that comes out when this kind of stuff starts to go south. So that's a team to keep your eye on. All right, so like I said before, any other media day stuff that I see today, we're going to touch on tomorrow. Tomorrow I'll be covering Warriors Media Day and whatever else I see.

And then we'll also in the evening have number four of our power rankings coming out. So keep an eye there. And then Wednesday, Thursday, Friday this week will be number three, two, one. And then next Monday we'll be starting our game breakdowns. As always, I sincerely appreciate your guys to support. I'm super stoked for a full NBA season. We got nine months of basketball on the horizon. I'm looking forward to it.

I will see you guys tomorrow. Volume. Another podcast from some SNL, late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and Friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day

and head writer Streeter Seidel help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends. on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,

or wherever you get your podcasts. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds.

I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, my basketball and college football journey, or my career in sports media. Well, now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifers Show.

This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but the show. celebrated. So let's get to it. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok podcast network on TikTok. This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed human.