The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Hoops Tonight -LIVE: Game 2 Reactions: Thunder Tie Series vs. Nuggets + Knicks Go Up 2-0 on Celtics

Episode Date: May 8, 2025

Jason reacts live after the Oklahoma City Thunder tie their second round series at 1-1 against the Denver Nuggets. He discusses Shai Gilgeous-Alexander, Jalen Williams, and Chet Holmgren bouncing back to overpower Nikola Jokic and Jamal Murray. Then he discusses the New York Knicks being up 2-0 after the Boston Celtics have another meltdown. Jalen Brunson was clutch in the fourth quarter once again while Jayson Tatum struggled in the second half, especially on the final possession.    Follow the show on Playback for future “Aftershow” content: https://www.playback.tv/hoopstonight  #Volume #HerdSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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I thought, one of their best two-way performances of the entire season. We're going to talk about some of the specific ways on both ends of the floor that Oklahoma City delivered the blowout victory in a must-win game. We'll talk a little bit about the specific ways that Denver kind of let go of the rope tonight and one of the things that they have to clean up heading into game three. And then in our second segment, in just shocking fashion, The New York Knicks come back again, down 20 on the road in Boston to beat the Celtics. Now, I thought it was very different than what happened in game one.

So I want to get in a little bit more detail in terms of just the difference between bad shot quality, or I should say bad shot selection and just needing to add more variety to your offense, which I think was more of the problem tonight. So we're going to be talking about that. I also want to shout out some specific elements of the Knicks defense, a couple of unsung heroes that have been making the things work for the Knicks on the defensive end of the floor. McHale Bridges had a showing in that early fourth quarter was magnificent as the Celtics actually played some really good basketball during that phase. And McHale just hit shot after shot after shot, keep the Knicks within striking distance.

And then Jalen Brunson again, making a case for potentially being the best guard in basketball. I want to dive a little bit into that concept. I think it's between him and Steph right now. and Jalen Brunson's just making a hell of a run once again in these playoffs. So we'll get into that Nix Celtics game from the perspective of both teams. And at the tail end of the show, we're going to take about 10 minutes of questions from the chat. So if you're subscribed to our YouTube channel, hang out, drop your questions. We'll take about 10 minutes of questions there at the end.

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And then keep dropping those questions in the chat for the mailbag at the tail end of the show. All right, let's talk some basketball. So how did Oklahoma City bounce back in game two? I think there's obviously in these sorts of situations a pullback and a change in intensity. When a veteran team gets a important win on the road without home court advantage, there's naturally a little bit of a relaxation in game two. And then I was talking with the guys before we started up, you know, like, I've said some things about O'KC this year. I have my frustrations. Frustrations the wrong word. I had my concerns around them surrounding some of their

ability to go ice cold on offense, some of their issues with perimeter size on defense. But I still firmly believe this is the second best team in basketball. And they are really fucking good on both ends of the floor. And so in a must-win game, I expected them to come out and throw an incredible punch. That is exactly what they did. But it can be too reductive to just be like, well, okay, OKC, brought the effort. Denver didn't. They won game two. I want to get into some of those specific dynamics. Ultimately, you know, this is kind of a natural part of that playoff process. I similarly expect Minnesota to kind of beat up on Golden State tomorrow as a veteran team gets a home court advantage in game one in a very similar set of circumstances.

But the only way you're going to flip the scoreboard is by changing basketball dynamics. So let's get into some of the specific basketball things that Oklahoma City did turn this series back to 1-1 headed to Denver. So first of all, in the early part of the game, much better interior passing. As a team, they had 11 assists in the first quarter. They had 12 in the entire second half of game one. A lot more, you know, J-Dubb in particular had a couple nice feeds to Hartenstein in different spacing spots on the floor.

He also was just taking quicker reads that were available. Throughout the game, I thought J. Dub just was much crisper with his decision-making in the middle of the floor. As a team, they looked a lot more like they did in the Memphis series, moving the ball through the middle of the floor. They were also doing a ton of scoring and transition off of their defense, which we'll talk about here in a few minutes.

I thought they were doing a couple of specific interesting things on the defensive end of the floor. And then in the second quarter run, I want to stay focused on J-Dub here for a minute because, again, J-Dub's young, and he doesn't have a ton of experience, and he's going to be inconsistent because of that, right? And, like, I thought game one was, you know,

an example of that type of inconsistency, but J. Dub is really, really good. And one of the things that he was struggling with in game one was getting into the middle of the floor in precarious situations where he didn't really have much of, like, a downhill advantage, and he was taking some bad shots in there. I thought J-Dubb was fantastic to lead that second-quarter unit in the early second quarter.

And again, that was the group that really blew the lead out into that, like, 30-point range. It started with the semi-transition drives. Like, Christian Brown looked like he was caught dead to rights on his heels multiple times in that stretch because J-Dub was just getting the ball in bounds and bringing up the floor, bringing the ball at the floor with pace and just hitting those semi-transition moves. So he'll get up the floor, get into a high hesitation. Like, he's still cruising at the same speed he was running past half court with, sit in the high hesitation and either just boom crossover or push dribble to the right just making

really simple aggressive downhill moves he had a drive on christian brown in again i think it was off of a made basket too if i remember correctly but it wasn't like any sort of crazy turnover or anything it was like a normal live ball transition situation and he uh christian brown didn't pick him up until he was like at the charge circle and he ended up just kind of having to wrap a jdub up and send him to the foul line like jub rim pressure in that early second quarter shift was amazing. In general, I thought Shay and J. Dub just made a concerted effort to apply excellent dribble penetration at the point of attack. That combined with the way that they were moving the ball better, they were just getting fantastic

shots. They found an action that they could spam in that early second quarter run. They started the Nugget started with D'Andre Jordan on Kassan Wallace. And so they just started running ghost screens. And then when Adelman takes D'Andre Jordan out of the action, they end up putting Jamal Murney on him. Same exact sort of thing. They just were spamming, again, J-dub coming off of a screen from Kaysan while his Kaysan slipping out of it to the three-point line, him just pitching that lefty over the top pass, two on the ball, easy slip, wide open three at the top of the key. He hit two of those there. He had, Kaysan had one of those impressive transition sequences. He had a nasty kind of like up and under super explosive looking right-handed layup on the right-hand,

right side of the rim. And that group ended up blowing the lead up to 29. And just in general, I thought it was an extremely impressive offensive game from OKC. That first half was insane. And again, like, like I mentioned at the top, I've been critical of OKC and their propensity to go into these extended offensive droughts this year. They had kind of a brief version of one in game two in crunch time in a couple of minutes of crunched clutch basketball that they played. I think they had a 66 offensive rating in game one. That's how they ended up losing the game, a couple of bad half court possessions, but this was the third best offense in the NBA this year. And they are certainly capable of explosions like the one they had tonight.

Hell, I was on the wrong end of one as a Lakers fan, one of these 80 point halves back in early April in the second one of the games against OKC where they came out and threw a very similar type of offensive punch where it's just unbelievable transition pushes, rim pressure, crisp passing, shot making all over the floor. Dudes just hitting every single open three, whether it's Jay Lynn Williams coming. off the bench. I thought Jay Lynn played an amazing shift in that first half just came in and just started kicking Yokic's ass with physicality, hitting those spot-up threes. I thought Jay Will was amazing. But 87 points in the first half for Oklahoma City. Beautiful half court basketball and

beautiful transition basketball. All their units functioned well, even though it was in different ways based on the personnel that was on the floor. The shot making was absurd. Just a magical half of basketball from O KC in a must-win situation. But I want to talk about the defensive end for a minute. More good ball pressure from Dort throughout the game. And that was consistent through game one, too, but a lot of really good ball pressure that forced Denver into a lot of late clock situations just because it took them a long time to get into their offense.

And then the big thing that was triggering a lot of their transition sequences, they really kicked Yokic's ass in this game and all of the areas where he likes to catch the ball. And we'll talk about Yoko Chia in a minute because some of this is on him as well. but every single high post entry, they were jumping it and getting like basically just not even making,

because Yokich wasn't making contact on his seals. He was just kind of standing at the high post and calling for the ball. And those thunder players were just shooting the gap with their speed and just taking the ball away from him. They were doing it all over the floor. On his post-ups, extra efforts digging down at the ball. Every single time he caught the ball in the pocket,

there's like three thunder arms in there grabbing at the ball, jumping those high post passing lanes, getting out in transition consistently. they forced 21 more turnovers tonight and scored 34 points off of those turnovers. So they actually extended their advantage in points off of turnovers over what they had in game one. It was a 20 point advantage in that specific margin for Denver. And then the last thing I wanted to shout out on the defensive end of the four, just all the extra efforts that they were making at the rim. The numbers will take a little while to update, so we'll have to get into them

on playback later tonight. But I bet you when we, pull the rim finishing numbers from Denver in this game, I bet you they shot below 40% at the rim or within five feet of the rim. You can you can force guys into misses at the rim just by getting a bunch of dudes making those good vertical contests without fouling and making it so that guys can't just go into their traditional rhythm around the rim. You make them change angles on layups, change footwork on layups. Even against good NBA players, you'll force misses there. And every Thunder player was making those extra efforts in rotation at the rim tonight. So many misses at point at point blank range. In game one, Denver at 54 points in the paint. They finished tonight with

28, but a lot of those came in garbage time. When I started focusing on my notes after Denver pulled their starters, I believe they were at like 17 points in the paint. So like just a dramatic difference in paint dominance between game one and game two. Like the Thunder just threw an incredible punch. They absolutely needed this win, and it might have been their best two-way punch of the season. That was an ass-kicking of epic proportion. Super balanced scoring down the roster.

They ended up getting eight players and double figures tonight, albeit there was some garbage time involved, but just a really well-rounded ass-kicking championship type of effort from the Oklahoma City Thunder. On the Denver front, like I said, Yokin shares, I think, the majority of the blame for a lot of those turnovers that were taking place at the high post in the sense that your job, there's a passing angle to it where it's like the passer needs to get the ball to where the passing window is. But at the same time, when that dude's also facing Lou Dord or somebody else in a lot of ball pressure, there needs to be from Yokic a better effort to just create a cleaner passing angle by finding the defender that's trying to stock that pass. and making contact so that he can't jump into that passing lane,

make a clear window available. I thought in general, Yokic just kind of had a little bit of like a lackadaisical night in a lot of those details. I just thought he just kind of succumbed to the physicality in a lot of ways and, you know, just didn't, you just let go of the rope. And I thought he shared a good amount of the blame

just for a lot of those turnovers that were taking place in the middle of the floor. Denver's point of attack defense was absolute garbage tonight. The good amount of this is on Christian Brown, but it goes down the roster is, Shea and J. Deb were both picking on different switches there, but they were just losing control of the ball over and over again right at the top of the key, right in the first few seconds of the possession. And when that dude's slashing downhill, their only way you're going to contain them is by conceding the types of wide open threes on kickouts that they were conceding throughout this game. And so Denver just has to do a much better job on the ground at the point of attack of keeping the ball in front, flattening out those drives, making it so that, hey, maybe Shea has to make two or three counter. moves to get into the paint instead of just high hesitation beat the dude off the dribble j was doing a ton of that type of damage tonight so got to be much better at the point of attack i thought

they missed a couple of really good looks early in the game that affected their overall just kind of like energy and belief and their ability to win they had five like wide open threes for christian brown and michael porter junior in the first quarter that all missed and i thought that really kind of took the wind out of denver sales and i thought collectively as a group they just let go the rope from there and they were just never within any sort of real striking distance. I still like their shot quality when they don't turn the ball over. There are a couple concerning things. They need to get Michael Porter Jr. and Jamal Murray to start hitting a higher percentage

of their jump shots in particular. Both of them just look really uncomfortable. Their misses right now are MPJ started to hit a couple later in the game, but both of them have had a lot of outside the rim misses, which tells me that they're just kind of out of rhythm. Those guys need to get going in Denver for Denver to have a good chance to win this series. So through two games and through rewatching one of them, I rewatched game one. I obviously haven't rewatched game two yet. But I'm still sticking with OKC to win the series by a very slim margin.

But I think it's much, much closer to a coin flip than what I saw before the series, which was I didn't have OKC as substantial as a favorite as Vegas did. I thought it was going to be a long series. I ended up picking Oklahoma City in seven, if I remember correctly. but this is a series now that I view much closer to a coin flip. I think Oklahoma City deserves to still be the favorite. I would pick them to win the series at this point, but I would not even be the slightest bit surprised

if Denver ended up closing this thing out in six games, for instance, like winning three and four, losing game five and winning game six. We'll see how it goes. I think the clear advantage for Oklahoma City that is shown through the first two games is their dribble penetration. like even in the even in game one like they were able to contain the ball through double teams and just kind of baiting Shea and J. Dub into some poor decisions and packing the paint. They were able to slow down dribble penetration a little bit today with some zone.

I'll be curious to see how the numbers look with that when the data actually updates. But that's their advantage in the same way that Denver has this huge advantage in the form of size, which manifests with Yokic as this indomitable shot creation force and then just their ability to get a ton of offensive rebounds. For Oklahoma City, it's just their speed. It's their dribble penetration and what they can do in transition. Even though Denver has a win in this series, both of these games, they got sliced and diced in those like points off of turnovers, you know, fast break opportunities off of bad misses and bad turnovers. And so Oklahoma City has their advantages in this series. And they're younger and they're more athletic and they're going to stay fresher over the course of the series. I think that's what keeps me from bailing on my pick to start the series. But I feel much more confident in Denver's ability to win the series now after two games than I did before the series started.

Hey, it's us, the Jonas Brothers, and guess what? We have some big news. What's the news, huge news? We created our own podcast called, Hey Jonas. We invented a podcast. Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to it. We're the first people to do podcasts. Pretty, yeah, pretty wide range of podcasts throughout there. But this one's extra special. So how do we, how do we actually come up with the name, Hey Jonas, guys? I honestly don't remember. I think I was on a call about what we should call it. Well, we were thinking I'm originally calling it one of the early names of our band before Jonas Brothers.

This is how you guys remember it going down? Yes. I have a very different memory of this. We were talking about a thing, a bit for the podcast, for people could call in and say, Hey, Jonas. And then I wrote down on my little notepad, Hey Jonas, and offered it up as a potential title for the podcast. But thanks for remembering that, guys.

Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL, late night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smigel and Friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform?

We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in.

I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves. Their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context, and ask the questions everybody wants answered.

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Jench and won. I mean, she went down in three to Rabakina, but I'm delighted. She's an outsider to win the French, me. And she likes Clay. Listen, Lena Rubakina is arguably the best player in the world right now and I actually can win on any surface because if she's serving, well, good luck. Consider this your court side seat to the French Open.

Listen to the Renee Stubbs tennis podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHeart Women's Sports. All right, let's go on to Boston, New York. What an insane game this was. There's so much interesting stuff. to get into with Boston, but I want to kind of set that to aside for the, for a minute, because as well, as poorly as Boston is playing, New York is also playing incredibly well.

And there are a bunch of specific things that need to get shouted out. I want to start on offense and then we'll work to the defensive end of the floor. On offense, once again, when they go down 20, they've been Pacers-esque with their willingness to just keep pushing the ball in transition, playing with pace, not letting go of the rope, and just knowing that they have such a high-powered offense that in any little short five-minute span of time, they can score a bunch of points and make something a game. Like it was Ogen and Obey in game one

that hit a couple of big threes right after they won up 20 that cut the lead down to 14. Tonight it was Josh Hart. Jason Tatum was straight up ignoring Josh Hart, helping off of him. Jalen Brunson was just kind of probing in the paint and made a couple of easy kickout passes to Josh Hart on basically concession threes

from the Celtics defense, he knocked him both down. In that early fourth quarter stretch, Mikhail Bridges was amazing. And remember, he was so good defensively in game one, but really didn't get going offensively in that game. He got his jump shot going in that early fourth quarter stretch. I think he hit like five or six jump shots. A couple of them were his classic kind of movement threes,

but several of them were really tough mid-range jump shots off the bounce. He had a nasty reverse layup with his left hand out of a ball screen against Drew Holiday. Michael Bridges' fourth quarter scoring was key in a big way because the Knicks were playing well on offense in that stretch. That was a stretch where Peyton Pritchard got a couple of wide open threes that he hit. I think Porzinc got an and one in that stretch. Al Horford got a bucket right at the rim. Like that was this phase of the game when the Celtics offense was actually playing pretty well

and continued to kind of stiff arm the Knicks. But Mikhail Bridges just kept scoring. And then he hit this three, I believe off of the right wing that cut the lead to seven right around the middle of fourth quarter and then Brunson came in and Brunson just completely took over the game from there and once again late in the game he gets a big three off of an offensive rebound from Josh Hart. He finds a matchup that he likes in drawing two on the ball with Horford that ends up setting up Josh Hart with the layup that he missed but he occupied the rim protector. So Carl Anthony Towns was able to get an offensive rebound put back for an and one.

And then late in the game just continually every single game in this postseason when the Knicks need him to generate offense late. Like, he's literally coming through every single time. Like, I don't think people realize how crazy this is. Crunchtime basketball is extremely hard. The refs swallow the whistle. All of the defenders are playing at a higher level of intensity. Drew Holiday, once again, like, just refusing to give up switches,

fighting through screens where, like, there were several possessions late where Jalen Brunson had to create a shot against Drew Holiday. like he regardless of this incredible difficulty of these situations he's literally coming through every single game this is crazy guys this is one of the most reliably great clutch performers i've ever watched and you know again those drew isos like drew holiday is consistently throughout the season done a phenomenal job one-on-one against jay lumbrunson he's the one guy on the celtics that he really struggles to get separation from and twice down the stretch there we had there were like three possessions where he attacked him directly.

And on two of those possessions, he managed to score, a nasty one-leg fadeaway, got his shoulder into Drew and then just leaned back on a one-leg fade-away around the right elbow. And then he drew a foul on that final possession, the one that got the lead. He knew Drew was going to be aggressive. He knew Drew was going to be physical. And he just trusted his handle. He trusted his counter move. He spun off of Drew.

Drew got out of position. Drew had no choice but to start hacking him. And he drew a foul there to get to the line. So again, four points. out of those late ISOs against Drew Holiday. Like that's really high level production in those situations. You got to transition right-handed layup on Al Horford, just taking, you know, being opportunistic about an advantage

that presented itself in transition, just kind of shot the gap, got around Horford, got to that right-handed layup. I just can't say enough about Jalen Brunson and the job that he's done in the clutch for this team. But I want to hold off about the conversation about him and where he stands among the guards right now, because he was incredible on defense in this game again.

But I want to talk about the Knicks defense in the big picture. We talked a lot about O.G. Annobe and Mikhail Bridges after game one. And those guys were amazing again tonight. Like, O.G. forced Tatum into a really tough left shoulder fade on a clutch possession late, kind of a late clock situation where Tatum had no choice but to attack him, defended him extremely well. Mikhail Bridges had that late peel off of Jalen Brown where he got the deflection off of

Tatum on the final possession that forced the turnover. They both had big, like, kind of help. defense sequences in the fourth quarter out of the post. Like, McHale Bridges scramed, Deuce McBride out of a post-missmatch. Porzingis slipped. He had McBride. He scramed him out of it and actually forced Porzingis to give up the ball and they ended forcing a miss.

O.G. Ananobe, he had that big baseline double team on a post up late in the game. Those guys were amazing. They do so much to clean up messes for this Knicks defense. But I want to shout out two other guys tonight. Mitchell Robinson and Jalen Brunson. First of all, Mitchell Robinson. one of the big reasons why he continues to be such a reliable piece for New York in this matchup is his ability to defend in switches. Plus 19 tonight in 22 minutes.

I'm pulling up the plus minus from game one because I wanted to see. In game one, he was plus 13 and 21 minutes. So they've consistently been very good with Mitchell Robinson on the floor. And a big part of it is, is, you know, we saw. you know, they can attack Carl Anthony Towns and pick and roll. That was how Tatum drew that late foul call, the one that brought the three-point lead down to two, was he just basically flipped the screening angle on Kat.

Cat had to rush over to the other side of the screen. He quickly split him with a crossover dribble, and then Kat had no choice but to hack him as he was going downhill. But like for the most part, Mitchell Robinson, when he switches in those ball screens, has been able to keep the ball in front and force them into a contested mid-range pull-up or a contested three-point pull-up.

And that's winning those matchups because Tatum and Brown can't make that shot right now. Both of them are just so broke with their jump, with their jump shot. And like there was a little thing that you saw there late that the play where Tatum got the dunk to get the lead, the dead giveaway or the obvious difference was that they just gave Tatum a massive runway and let him run the length of the floor. And they set the ball screen, damn near at half court. And so he was already, he had such a head of steam by the time he got to Mitchell Robinson that it was so easy for him to break him off with a simple move there. but Mitchell Robinson's defense and his ability to switch in pick and roll on those guys has been a huge part of how they've been

able to be so good defensively in the lineups when he's on the floor. Joe Missoula like flat out admitted after the game that he's hacking him not even because of the free throws. He's hacking him because he's trying to get Tibbs to take him off the floor. I like freely admitted it. He's like like he said after the game. He was like I hacked him on that late possession just to get tips to take him off the get off the floor because look at his plus minus. and then look at the plus minus of all the starters. I thought that was a super interesting bit. First of all, for for Missouri to even admit that in that situation, I thought was fascinating.

But yeah, it's, if Mitch has been kicking everybody's butt. And then Jalen Brunson, I shouted him out, if you guys remember after game one, for a couple of key defensive sequences. He had two stops against Tatum on an island where he beat him to spots, enforced him into tough pull-ups. He battled Horford on a couple of post-mishmatches where he fronted the post. a bunch of the same stuff again tonight.

Just battling in post mismatches, being willing to hold up on an island. Again, with both guys, with Kat and with Brunson, they're still mixing in the hedge and recover with Brunson. They're still mixing in a bunch of drop with Kat, you know, just to try to, you know, one of the interesting subplots here is, I think part of the reason why Tibbs is sticking with that

is because Boston's shooting the ball so poorly. Because, like, they're getting, getting clean looks out of a lot of those actions late in the game. They got Horford a couple of wide open looks in pick and pop situations late in the game just like that. But they're just Brunson is competing defensively and it's making a world of difference. Kat is still really struggling but Brunson has made it so that there's

one really weak defender on the floor instead of two. And like I talked a lot about, you know, during the Nick's struggles this year, I've talked a lot about the idea that they kind of, you know, that teams have missed the point about what made Boston great. You know, what made Boston great wasn't necessarily just Tatum and Brown. Obviously, those guys are a big part of it. But it's that they can keep putting together these five-man lineups where all five defenders are great. And like, by the way, Boston's not losing

this series because of defense. They held the Knicks to 91 points tonight. They, the Celtics can guard one through five in basically all of their lineups, the majority of their lineups, with with with except for like Porzingis is like the one guy that they're really struggling to guard with in this particular phase of the season. But like with the Knicks, one of the reasons why they never had any sort of sustained success against great teams this year, frankly, any success against great teams this year, was because Brunson and Kat were these like obvious entry points. And so it doesn't matter how good Mikhail is on the ball.

Doesn't matter how good OG is on the ball. They're just in rotation too much. And like Brunson being able to hold his ground the way that he's been holding his ground in conjunction with the job that Mikhail and OG are doing. all these help and recover situations and Josh Hart as well, it's just made it so that the Knicks defense is so much more sturdy in these spots. And like obviously there's a Celtics element with them knocking down shots and, you know,

this will bear out over the course of the series. Like whether you want to ask me whether or not the Knicks can win this series, it really is going to come down to whether or not that defense can hold up. Because we're going to talk about Boston here in a minute. Boston was consistently better on the road than they were at home this year. this series is not over. Boston, I would not be even the slightest bit surprised if Boston went down to MSG and won two

and brought this series back to Boston at 2-2. So like, this is not over, but the pathway for the Knicks is that defense that we just talked about holding up, Brunson holding up, to help and recover holding up, just them in general holding up on that end of the floor. But hell of a punch from the Knicks.

You know, it's so funny. I was talking with Josh Rodriguez. He's a guy used to do some work for this show. a big Knicks fan. And we were talking after game seven, game six of the Piston series. And he was like, man, Knicks fans are so sick of this team. Because they just didn't have the same like juice, competitive juice that they did in last year's team. And, you know, like you cats joking after the series.

Like we just like to do things the hard way. And it's like, well, you guys kind of don't do the work for large stretches of games and make things really difficult on yourself. but for whatever reason, it's like all come to fruition here in the first two games of the series. And all of a sudden, this looks like a Knicks team that has a decent chance to win the title. Like they're a legitimate threat in a way that I did not see them as a legitimate threat at all coming into this postseason run. So shout out to the Knicks for discovering a sturdy defensive identity. And then there's the second piece of it, which is Jalen Brunson. And again, like, this is a conversation for the summer.

and I would lean Steph still at this point because I just am such a believer in late round playoff success. But Jalen Brunson, you know, especially with Steph starting to age out, Jalen Brunson is making a strong case to be the best small guard in the league with the way that he's been playing as of late. For him to be as sturdy defensively as he has been, and then to just routinely be arguably the very best closer in all of basketball to the point where the Knicks did the job of getting them into too close.

games against the Celtics late and twice. Jalen Brunson stared down Jason Tatum and was just flat out better than him. And I just want to shout out Brunson. I think he at the very least now has a case to be the best small guard in the league. And again, we'll approach that again this summer. But man, like he's just playing at a crazy high level. So let's talk about Boston's offense. A couple of things.

First of all, the hilarious thing was that after OG's, offensive foul when he dunked all over. Who was it that got in front of him? Was it Derek White? I think it was Derek White. Dunk's all over Derek White. Derek White gets the charge call and the Celtics immediately go on a run and blow the lead up to 20.

What's hilarious is after the charge, they got five buckets right at the rim in that run to get it up to 20. Derek White went right through Brunsson to the rim. Tatum had this angry looking post up of Mikhail Bridges where he just backed him down and got right to the front of the rim. Derek White had another driving layup and pick and roll. Then Tatum and White both set up Cornette and Porzingis for buckets right at the front of the rim. They got that lead up to 20 getting stuff right at the rim.

And we're going to talk about that in a little bit as it pertains to the versatility element. But honestly, guys, like, when I watched the second half of game one, I was like, I called it CTE basketball as a joke. But like, it was just an enormous amount of poor process and terrible shot selection. I didn't feel that way at all watching the second half of this game. I thought their process was generally good, and I thought they mostly got great shots. Yes, there were some bad ones mixed in there. That Tatum had that bad left shoulder fade over OG and Anobie and clutch time that he missed.

Jalem Brown had a shot where he went right at Brunson and tried to like grift a foul around the left elbow. That was a bad possession. Obviously the final possession where Tatum shot it, tried to pass out of a double team and turned it over against McHale Bridges. That was a bad possession, but there was a lot of good. You know, I saw Jason Tatum trying to split ball screens against Kat and, and Mitchell Robinson late and getting to the rim.

Jalen Brown did have a play where he tried to bully Jalen Brunson right to the front of the rim, and he just missed like a really easy shot right at the front of the rim. And like, Horford, butt naked three in the right corner, missed. Derek White, butt naked three on the left wing. missed. Jason Tatum and Jalen Brown both missed about the easiest wide open threes you'll ever see down the stretch of this game. Tatum's was off the catch in the right corner and kind of a semi-transition sequence. Jalen Brown missed one at the top of the key out of a ball screen where there was nobody up at the level and the screen wiped out the defense. I mean, he's standing unguarded. And so it was very

different from game one in the sense that like, you know, the Celtics of Tade. The Celtics took 60 threes in game one, but they were bad threes. I've seen the Celtics take 50, 55 threes in a game and have them mostly be good threes. It has nothing to do with the volume of threes for me. It has to do with where they get them. But there is a reality to the fact that if your offense is primarily designed to generate threes. and the propensity of the team is to hunt those threes, even if they're good threes,

every three has a certain degree of variance to it. To take it a step further, shooting in general is kind of a mind fuck. The best shooters in the world don't make half their threes. Meaning like if you take a three, you're probably going to miss. And so as they start to stack up on you, often it can get in your head, you start to tweak your release.

Like, guys, Jason Tatum's jump shot has not just been off, it's been way off over the course of this series. He's clearly in his head about it, because that's what happens. When shots start to miss, it can spiral on you. You know, there's been a lot of like analytical attempts over the years to try to explain shooting variants, and I've seen pieces that try to say that there's no such thing as the hot hand. I don't have any idea of how to explain it to you guys other than to say that if you've played, you know. you know that it's a real thing. And it could just as easily flip.

They could go into game three and suddenly Tatum Brown and White could go 12 for 20 from three and they could blow out the Knicks and send us to a game four, two games to one. But there is variance. It's an inherent part of shooting

and it tends to be streaky. It tends to be as a team you'll go cold and as a team you'll go hot. There is a momentum behind that sort of thing. Now this is where the variety comes in. to the picture. The closer you can get to the basket with pet action, meaning like, let's say that Jason Tatum

just made a concerted effort to post up legitimately like six, seven, eight, nine times a game. If he made that effort, that makes it so that there's a huge chunk of the way that he can generate offense that generates shots that are closer to the rim. The closer you get to the rim, the less variance there is.

Tatum is absolutely big and strong enough to be a guy that can bump a defender off and take a left shoulder hook. There's nothing that says that he can't take that type of shot. Tatum also, with his jump shot, will have less variance on short little 10-foot turnarounds than he will on 17-foot turnarounds or on three-point shots.

As a team, this offense is entirely geared around the ability to generate three-point shots. this is where I got to go to the stars. And guys, like Jason Tatum had the best season of his career. And this was the first season where I said that I thought that he was a legitimate top-tier superstar in this league. He combined the versatility that he had really built out over the previous years as a big, strong athlete that could do everything as a rebounder and as a defender. He combined that with a dramatically improved overall just like floor presence as a playmaker and as just like a half court kind of, a flow of the game guy.

And then he took a leap as a shot maker to the extent to where he looked fantastic in the first round. But as I've consistently said, like when Tatum can't make his jump shot, he is no longer a top tier superstar in this leap. And the reason is, is because he doesn't have any elite first step that can consistently beat people off the dribble, good defenders. And he doesn't have any sort of legitimate, reliable, close, range game. And so if his jump shot isn't there, if he can't rely on that piece of his offense,

he dramatically dips overall as an offensive talent. And suddenly this Celtic team, and again, like remember last year when Tatum was faltering, Jalen Brown was playing the best basketball of his career. The problem is that Jalen Brown is also in just as big of a shooting slum. And so it's really tricky because the two guys that are primarily responsible for generating shots for this offense are two guys that rely on consistently getting to the rim and knocking down pull up jump shots. And neither of them can get to the rim right now. And neither of them can make their jump shot. And so all of a sudden you have a Celtics offense that even though they're surrounded by all of this play finishing talent,

they are unable to generate something that doesn't have a great deal of variance involved, which is that three-point shot attack. When we look at the top players in the league, when you look at like Nicola Yokic, for instance, his game is impervious to variance because he shoots like 65% on shots that are within 10 feet of the basket that are not layups. Shea Gildes Alexander is going to get into the mid-range and he's over 50% from there. He's much less susceptible to variance there.

These guys at the top of the league, they have a reliable element to their game that at this point in Tatum's career hasn't really developed. And so as a result, it's like Tatum's making jump shots. He's the third best player in the league. Tatum's not making jump shots.

He's like the eighth or ninth best player in the league. And like you want to know why the Celtics are down 2.0. it's because their best player is like completely decomposing in these games. Now again, the series is not over. I would not be the slightest bit surprised if Boston went down in one game three, four, five, and six. But it's going to turn on Jason Tatum. If Tatum goes down there and gets back to that top tier superstar level, the Celtics will win.

if he goes down there and drops another five for 17, then they're not going to win the series. Once again, these series keep coming down to the play of these superstars. And I just think it's really fascinating. Hey, it's us, the Jonas Brothers. And guess what? We have some big news. What's the news?

Huge news. We created our own podcast called, Hey, Jonas. We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to it. We're the first people to do podcasts. Pretty, yeah, pretty wide. range of podcasts throughout there.

But this one's extra special. So how did we actually come up with a name, Hey Jonas, guys? I honestly don't remember. I think it was on a call about what we should call it. We were thinking I'm originally calling it one of the early names of our band before Jonas Brothers. This is how you guys remember it going down? Yes. I have a very different memory of this.

We were talking about a thing, a bit for the podcast where people could call in and say, Hey Jonas, and then I wrote down on my little notepad, Hey Jonas, and offered it up as a potential title for the podcast. But thanks for remembering that, guys. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite.

Unhumor me with Robert Smigel and Friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Dave. and head writer Streeter Seidel help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes.

Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened.

That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise. Breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves, their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context and ask the questions everybody wants answered.

Sports slice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to SportsSlic on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slicelife 12 in the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. The French Open is one of the toughest tests in tennis. And I know firsthand because I competed there myself. I'm Renee Stubbs. And on the Renee Stubbs tennis podcast, I'm breaking down everything happening at Roland Garris. Every match, every upset, and what it really takes to win on clay.

Jen Chinchin win. I mean, she went down. three to Rabakina, but I'm delighted. She's an outsider to win the French for me. And she likes Clay. Listen, Lena Rubakina is arguably the best player in the world right now. And I actually can win on any surface. Because if she's serving, well, good luck.

Consider this your court side seat to the French Open. Listen to the Renee Stubbs Tennis podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHeart Women's Sports. All right, let's bring. Jackson, let's take about 10 minutes of questions and then we'll head over to playback. Let's do it. Let's do some questions. We got mostly questions about the Celtics game. We'll take a couple about some other stuff. But let's start with this one, which I think is sort of a

prevailing sentiment. Is this the quote unquote same old Celtics from 23 and sort of years past before they had gotten over the hump and won the championship? So game one felt like same old Celtics to me where they just took a lot of really bad shots. I thought this game was mostly specifically about Tatum. Like, I saw a Celtics fan talking about it on Twitter. I can't even remember who it was. But someone was saying something along the lines of Tatum's in, like, the complete upside down right now.

And you can tell all of the other players, like, don't know what to do about it. Like, you can tell all the other players are like, one of us should probably take control. but like who's going to be the guy that goes like hey tatoom give me the ball you know what i mean and like i that's like i thought i thought this game in particular came down to the fact that like the the Celtic stars are just legitimately unable to make shots right now game one felt much more like years past where it's like why do these guys keep taking these really stupid shots but i didn't really have a problem with their shot

selection in the second half of this game what did you feel your Celtics fan jackson what did you feel about the shot selection late in this game i thought the shot selection and the process was mostly fine this game. I agree with you in that sense. The thing that I think you can point to you, if you were trying to say this is this quote unquote same old Celtics is I think the the same old Celtics did two things poorly. They settled for way too many three as much like game one. And then also they were making a lot of the right plays and they were just like making a lot of the right place from a process standpoint, but not finishing those right plays. And that's that's the version that you saw tonight. They it's it. It's it. Game.

one, it felt like they were playing stupid. They were just playing so dumb. And this game, it's like, it almost felt a little bit worse. It felt much more like a mental meltdown for me than game one. Because game one, they played so dumb. Like we, I have no problem saying they played idiotic offensive basketball in game one, right? Tonight, it's like they're in their head because they're missing a lot of shots. You're seeing Jason Tatum brick, butt naked threes from the corner.

Jalen Brown is missing wide open threes. Al Horford is one for 10 from three this series. They are just bricking shots, missing them badly in a way where you're like, man, are they thinking about it? Are they? And that's why I feel like it's a little bit worse than game one, because you see the game one result. Process-wise, you've solved the problems from the game one. But once you get into the fourth quarter and the Knicks start coming back, it's like, uh-oh, are they going to do this? Are they going to do this again?

Are we going to do this again? You know, it's becoming more of like, at least vision on the surface. I don't know what these guys are actually thinking, obviously. But from a viewer standpoint, it feels much more like they are falling mentally, as opposed to just playing a little bit stupid. You can want to see, you know, parse the difference of those. I think you're absolutely right about that. I think this is like they are entering into the yips.

Yeah. And it's going to be a question of, it's going to be a question of whether or not they can get that right. They generated 14 unguarded catch-and-shoot jump shots in this game, made three of them. Three of them. Like, that's, that's brutal. but that's the thing like guys that was not what happened in game one in game one they actually shot well on their open shots in the second half tonight totally different uh second half seven unguarded jump shots catch and shoot point four three points per attempt so like they just they're just they're just

completely out of whack with their jump shooting but this is the thing like this is the advantage of having a player that can consistently generate quality twos close to the rims. when you have that type of player, it gives you a certain floor offensively to where like, even when you're missing your threes, you're still getting a handful of layups during that stretch or easier shots during that stretch that kind of raised your floor. Like, even like with Steph Curry,

because like Steph Curry has always had a great deal of variance in his game. I mean, the first half of the Rockets game is, uh, uh, Rockets Game 7 is a good example, right? But with step, he,

because he inverts the spacing by bringing multiple defenders to perimeter constantly, he will generate easy twos for his teammates over the course of the game, where, like, you're seeing Steph, like, have a night where he shoots poorly, but the offense still functions at a really high level. And so Steph is, like, the one guy that I can think of in my life that is, like, a jump shooter primarily that is like, there's variance in his game, but there's still a pretty high floor in those situations. And ultimately, Jalen Brown and Jason Tatum are incapable of generating quality twos on a consistent basis close to the basket, which makes them very dependent on tough jump shot making. And that's been an issue for them consistently in the series.

Yeah. And I think it's where you see the biggest difference between those two players and Jalen Brunson, right? And it's it's a thing that I sort of, I am no problem admitting that I am generally pro analytics. And that's why I'm a fan of the Celtics and Missoula ball as an overall concept. But the thing that I think most people miss about analytics and the three point in take away the mid, no more mid-ring shooting is three-point shooting high volume is better from a macro long-term perspective. You are going points per shot. The more shot do you get at a high points per shot, better for your offense. Undeniable. It's just math. But at the end of a game, when there's only so many shots left to come in the game, it's not about the best expected value of the shot.

It's are you going to score at all on the shot, right? Which is why it's not a, it doesn't become a 1.14 anymore. It becomes a two or a zero or a three or a zero. So it's not about expected value. It's about is it going to go in, which is why you want a closer or a mid-range shot or a, you know, in the paint, a paint touch, which is what Jalen Brunson is doing at a dramatically, dramatically, dramatically, dramatically, dramatically higher level than Tateham and Jalen Brown. Yeah, Jalen Brunson can beat elite defenders off the dribble consistently. Like that, that's an important detail. Like, he solved Dennis Schroeder over the course of that series. Like, he, was able to get close range twos or to the foul line against drew multiple times late him hitting

the gap against horford that's not to say that tatum can't do it tatum can but tatum needs like some circumstances like oh we got to give him a massive runway and set the screen at half court you know like that sort of thing for him to beat a mitchell robinson off the dribble whereas like yeah like if he gets a favorable matchup he can beat that guy off the dribble but like that's the thing like the selfics did that stuff well tonight they they did the hunting the right matchups building the advantages generating the quality shots. My thing is like, sometimes you got to stare down the best offender that's guarding you and be able to generate equality too.

Like, that that's the difference that, that like prevents Tatum from being like a consistent guy that produces at that top tier superstar level. 100%. Sort of big picture here. The Knicks now on draft kings are minus 120 to win the series. The Celtics are plus 100. So Nick's slightly favored over a pickum up too well in the series going home. where do you land on the series at large, on that price, on the Nix, you know, potential to actually

win the series? I think that's perfect. That's exactly how I'd put it. I think the Nix deserve to be slight favorites at this point. I think if you're a Nix fan and you think this series is over, you're an idiot. Like, this is not the team that got almost swept by the Miami Heat and it ended up forcing a game seven. and like that team was less mature, less able to like stabilize in terms of process.

Like there's a chance that the Celtics come out and play the exact same game in game three that they played in game two and win by 15. Like they are, they are definitely capable of going down there and winning. But it's really hard to win four times in five prize. And that dude, Madison Square Garden is going to be bumping in game three. And that's where I kind of feel like it makes sense for,

to be a coin flip because like I think the Knicks are about a coin flip to win game three even with like you're going to get what whatever the best version of the Celtics is you're getting that in game three like that they're going to come out like guns blazing in that game but the Knicks are also going to be playing with an opportunity to really put the series away and to go up three oh so like I view that game as a coin flip and I think whoever wins that game probably wins the series and so at that with that being the case it kind of feels to me like roughly a coin flip, but you're going to obviously give the team that has like a big home court advantage at this point in the Knicks the advantage. To put the hammer on the coin flip analogy, to lose two 20 point leads, you also have to gain two 20 points, right?

This helps us have been up by 20 in both games, period. Did they lose both games? Yes. Did they lose it in embarrassing fashion? Yes. They were, but they were up by 20 in both games. So the series is by no means over. one more question about this series. Who is, I guess it's sort of about this series. Who is more clutch? Jalen Brunson or Tyrese Halliborne? I'm going to go Brunson just because Brunson, it feels like a career long thing for him. Halliburton's on one hell of a clutch run.

And if you ask me who the most clutch player this season is, I'd probably go with Halliburton, because, I mean, he's literally hit two game-ending jumps, or shots in this, in this playoff run. But, like, Brunson, this has been a multi-year sequence where he's like this. So I would give the slight edge, to Bronson at this point. Great question, though.

For sure. We got a few questions on the refereeing. One, a specific question, which is, do you have a take on the officiating in the Denver game tonight? Because a lot of Nuggets fans are in the chat, screaming about Scott Foster letting the Thunder mall Nicole Yokic.

So the first question is sort of a more specific view about the officiating tonight. And then sort of big picture, do you like the physicality that the refs are allowing in the playoffs so far? Is there, how would you, I know consistency is important, but how would you, how is your feeling about the officiating sort of at large? So first of all, and just fair warning for Nuggets fans,

I am the worst person to ask this question to, because I will never blame the refs ever for a game, ever. So that's the first little bit of context. But I am generally of the belief that the team that plays with more force gets the better whistle. And I thought Oklahoma City came out and kicked your ass tonight. and I thought it also manifested in a lot of these like whistle situations where Oklahoma City was on the right side of it. I generally feel that way. Like there's there's so many examples where like you'll see a team win a game and then the other team will win the next game by bringing the requisite effort.

And in that game, they'll get a better whistle. And everyone will think it's like the league office stepping in and being like, we need to tie this series. And it's like, no, what's happening is the team that's desperate that absolutely has to win this game. like this is not like Boston, New York. Like Boston could afford to lose tonight and still, they've been better on the road all seats. Like Boston has lost so many games at the TD Garden. It's not even funny this year.

Like they, like, I think they have like, I think this is like their 14th loss at home this year. It's something crazy like that. They have been a very good road team all year. They've looked much more like last year's team on the road than they did at home this year. And so Denver OKC, it's very different. You drop that game tonight. night, like, and send Denver home. Like, you're not winning two in Denver. You might get lucky to

get one there. Like, the series could be over if you lose tonight. So, like, Oklahoma City brought the requisite effort. They're, they're an awesome team. They physically kick to us. Guys, I'm watching Yokic not even seal at the high post. Like, I'm not going to blame the refs when Yokic, I thought, played just a poor game by his standards. And, like, guys, that's the thing. I'm, I, like, in order for me to feel like it means something for me to say that game one was one of the greatest playoff performances that I've ever watched, we also have to be willing to look and be like, he sucked tonight. If we don't do that, then it means nothing when we say he was awesome. And it also means nothing when we say somebody sucks. We have to be honest about the way that these guys played.

Yokic was awesome in game one, his team one. Yokic was not good tonight, and it was a big part of why they lost. And by the way, he's not the only one ever. Michael Porter Jr. was awful again tonight. Their point of attack defense was awful all night long. Christian Brown had a bad night. A lot of guys down the roster were bad, but, you know, obviously Yokic is a guy I hold to a very high standard.

I think he's the best player in the world and one of the best players in NBA history, and I don't think he did his job tonight. Let's do one more question, and then we will go over to playback. This is not about any games from tonight, but do you feel that Jimmy Butler still has it in him? to be playoff Jimmy, but as a lead score, as a we need you to lead us to a win tonight type or is he sort of past that phase a little bit? We're going to find out, that's for sure. This is a really tough matchup in terms of just the types of defenders that he's going to

consistently go against. I also think that Jimmy's going to need to provide a certain amount of scoring over the course of these games, but I think it's still the ball and player movement of goal. Golden State, putting Minnesota in the blender that is their best pathway to succeed. Minnesota, if you play into the matchup attacking trap with them, that's right up there alley. Trust me, I just went through that as a Laker fan. Like, as much as I like Jimmy, Luke is better. And Luca was having a hard time finding advantages from to attack one-on-one. This is not a one-on-one type of attack kind of series. Your advantage is, yes, Jimmy looks to be

aggressive. Yes, every time there's four seconds on the shot clock, you want to throw him the ball and he needs to go try to create something off the dribble. But this is a a series you're going to win defense to transition and by putting minnesota in the blender in the half court all right guys uh playback dot dot tv slash hoops tonight the link is in the description head over there right now we're going to be starting up there in just a couple of minutes we'll take some callers we'll take some questions from the chat we'll hang out and just uh watch some film talk some basketball in an informal setting for about 45 minutes we'll see you guys over there in just a minute thanks as always for supporting the show we'll see you guys in just a couple

minutes. What's up, guys? As always, I appreciate you for listening to and supporting hoops tonight. It would actually be really helpful for us if you guys would take a second and leave a rating and a review. As always, I appreciate you guys, you guys, you guys, supporting us, but if you could take a minute to do that, I'd really appreciate it. The volume. Hey, guys, it's us. The Jonas Brothers. I'm Joe. I'm Kevin. And I'm Nick. And guess what? We created our own podcast called, Hey, Jonas. We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to...

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