The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Hoops Tonight - LIVE: THUNDER-PACERS FINALS GAME 4 REACTION: Shai Gilgeous-Alexander pulls out late W vs Tyrese Haliburton

Episode Date: June 14, 2025

Jason reacts live after the Oklahoma City Thunder come back with a huge win over the Indiana Pacers in Game 4 of the NBA Finals. He discusses the odd game from Shai Gilgeous-Alexander before he took over late, Jalen Williams and Chet Holmgren leading the charge, and Tyrese Haliburton & Pascal Siakam just falling short.    Follow the show on Playback for future “Aftershow” content: https://www.playback.tv/hoopstonight  #Volume #HerdSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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See dkng.c.c.o slash audio. Here at the volume, heavy Friday, everybody, hope all you guys are having a great week. Well, game four in a series like this, when the team on the road steals home court advantage is typically where the series is decided. The team that wins, uh, if you're the home team and you win, you go up 3-1. All of a sudden, it's just too big of a deficit for you to,

overcome. And then if you're the better team and you have home court advantage and you steal that game back in game four, it's two, two, but you have all the momentum. You only need two more wins and two of the last three games are in your home building. And so this game is always the pivot point for most playoff series. And the thunder, when push comes to shove, nobody seems to be able to score against this team. And that's what I will always remember about them. We're going to break down this game from the perspective of both teams. At the tail end of the show, we're going to have Jackson come on the show. We're going to take questions from the chat so that you guys that have questions want to get into any specific details or angles on the series. You can bring them

to the chat comments for the tail end of the show. And then remember when we wrap up here tonight, we're going to be heading over to playback. That's playback.com.com. That's playback.com. T.L.S. And we'll be taking callers. We'll watch some film. We'll dig into what happened in that crazy game tonight. You guys know the drill before we can start. Subscribe to the Hoops Tonight YouTube channels. You don't miss any more of our videos. Follow me on Twitter underscore Jason LT. So you guys don't miss show announcement. Don't forget about our podcast feed wherever you get your podcast on our hoops tonight. It's also super helpful if you leave a rating and a review on that front.

Jackson's doing great work on our social media feeds, Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, and TikTok. Make sure you guys follow us there. And last bit at least, like I mentioned earlier, drop those mailbag questions in the chat. And we'll get to them at the tail end of the show. All right, let's talk some basketball. So I have been pretty consistent with this Thunder team in this postseason run that the true star of this team, the strength of this team, The thing that I will remember most about this team is their defense. I thought J-dub had an awesome game tonight, especially relative to his age and experience,

provided some pretty steady scoring for a team that was struggling to score, especially throughout the middle portions of this game. But I thought Shay was a disaster, the majority of the game. I thought he looked generally disengaged and extremely fatigued to the point where, like, I was starting to wonder if there was something bigger going on, like he was sick or something along those lines. and he made some plays late in the game, which we're going to discuss, but this team was dead in the water and unable to score when they needed to,

even in that fourth quarter for the most part. But we saw a similar thing take place in the Denver series in the second round, where it's the fourth quarter, Denver's up, it's game four. They're on the verge of taking a three one lead in the series, but something happened from that point forward through the end of game four against Denver. The Denver Nuggets, led by the greatest offensive player I've ever personally watched in Nikola Yokic, and they couldn't score. The series was on the line. It was hanging in the balance, and they couldn't score. Even when Denver managed to pull out a game six to send it back to Oklahoma City for game seven, what happened in game seven?

The Nuggets couldn't score. They couldn't even get the ball to Yokic, where they needed to get it to. come into this series, the Pacers kind of methodically generating quality shots, even throughout the game tonight. Like they had at least 25 points in every quarter through the first three quarters. Throughout the series, I've talked about how the Pacers have shown some ability to be able to break down the defense as long as they don't turn it over. And in this fourth quarter, when everything was hanging in the balance, I think the Pacers led by as much as seven or eight in the fourth quarter,

if I remember correctly, they couldn't score. When it came time to be able to pull this series into a 3-1 lead in a situation where they would be probably favored in Vegas to win at that point, they couldn't score. And that's what I'll remember about this Thunder team. They can leverage themselves athletically in a way that Indiana can't match. They can leverage themselves athletically as a team defensively that nobody in the league can match, even the best and most reliable offenses. Denver had the best offensive player, possibly in the history of the game, couldn't score. Indiana has the second or third best offensive engine in the NBA surrounded by a good amount of cumulative ball handling and shooting ability, couldn't score.

That's where it all comes down to. I talked a lot after game three, if you guys remember, in all the content that we produced over the last few days. I explained to you guys why I still had Oklahoma City as the team I expected to win the series. I said they win game four. I said they win game five. I said they'd win one of game six or seven. So Oklahoma City and six or seven.

And if you guys remember, the specific thing I said was that Oklahoma City had two semi-reliable actions they could run to be able to generate offense when things really bogged down and everything's on the line. I said, Shea attacking Turner and pick and roll, which is not what they went to down the stretch of this game. and then Shea Isos, which is exactly what they went to down the stretch of this game. Those were two actions that no matter what Indiana does, Oklahoma City can either get a good shot for Shea that he can make or draw a double team that leads to some sort of quality look. And we saw an example of that where Nemhard dug down on Shea and got kicked to J. Dub. J. Dub drove the close out and ended up generating a wide open three for Shea on the right wing.

but ultimately Oklahoma City, when things really bogged down, had a couple of things they could go to that were going to generate good looks. For Indiana on the other end, Dort is flying over the top of screens and not allowing Tyrese to free up. They finally get a good screen and he gets switched on to Chet and he's able to go to a step back three, but it's a step back three versus Chet. That's not a super high percentage look.

The Pacers throughout this series have established a lot of cumulative success. through their ball pressure, fatiguing Oklahoma City's ball handlers. I underrated. If there was one thing that I underrated in terms of Indiana's chances to win this series, it's that Oklahoma City is really light on ball handling. Even though they're a super talented roster, their talent comes in the form of quickness, athleticism, defense, a lot of different things that aren't necessarily dribbling the basketball in high-level playmaking.

And so they've been more susceptible to, to Indiana's ball pressure. They've been more susceptible to fatigue as Indiana's ball pressure has worn them down. But that weakness made this series more competitive. But even throughout that, as Indiana had their moments, as they got their offense going in various ways at various points in the series,

they never established one single action or play type that they could go to that's like, this is going to get us a good shot every single time. the Tyrese ball screens, it's like, well, what if Dort just doesn't get screened, or if they switch? Now it's a Tyrese ISO. We're not getting anything super reliable out of that. Siakum has had moments attacking out of the post in the series. It hasn't been something that has been super reliable generating great shots. They tried the Tyrese, Seacom two-man game at various points.

They can switch it. There have not, the Pacers never established anything that they could really, really depend on. down the stretch we saw a steady diet of shay j dub two man game one of the interesting subplots of the series is you know we talked about going in how like we didn't really get any opportunity to see neesmith spend some extensive time on shay and carlyle ended up making the right decision in going with nemhard in this series and nemhart has done an incredible job on shay throughout the series j dub has spent the majority excuse me uh neesmith has spent the majority of the series on j dub and J. Dub has cooked his ass, just cooked him.

And down the stretch, instead of having J. Dub go at Neesmith, they just ran two-man game to get Neesmith switched on to Shea, and Shea cooked him. Now, I have some frustrations about the specific manner with which these situations led to points, which we'll get to in a minute, but it wouldn't have mattered anyway with how good Oklahoma City's defense was. They were going to win this game, but they were able to get a triple threat ISO against Kneesmith

where he had his arm on Shea's left arm and so Shea took a non-basketball shot and got rewarded with two points for it. Then they went to that another ISO off of the right wing. Nemhard pinches down. It gets kicked back to J-Dub. J-Dives the close-out. Both guys react.

It's a wide-open three for Shea, but that wide-open three was generated by Shea because of his ability to draw the second defender in an ISO against Kneesmith. and then the push-off there along the baseline, once again, a bucket against Neesmith, and then the step-through move. I actually thought Neesmith played really good defense on this possession

and kind of bailed Shea out. I thought Shea also traveled on the possession, so it was, again, kind of a questionable call. But all of the buckets down the stretch were Shea going at Neesmith. They had a reliable action. They had something they could run. Shea is capable of getting his one-on-one game off against the majority of the guys on this roster,

but he found a specific matchup in Indy's starting five in their closing five that he liked to attack, and he was able to get the buckets that he needed to put his team in position to win the game on the strength of their defense. Another huge element I thought in the fourth quarter of this game was the offensive rebounding of Chet Holmgren and Isaiah Hartenstein. We had a boatload of free throws down the stretch, so Oklahoma City ended up with 31 points, but it wasn't as easy, breezy for them scoring throughout the majority of the fourth quarter. I thought Shea and J. Dubb was pretty good throughout the night, but I thought Shea played pretty shitty half-court offense, the majority of the night. There were a lot of misses in there.

And in those misses, time and time again, Shet would just come flying in off that left wing for offensive rebound putbacks. He had, I think, two that led to direct buckets, one where he tapped it out in another, Shea ended up getting a bucket off of the tapout. And then Hartnstein had an offensive rebound put back. Just by my count, eight second chance points for the thunder in that fourth quarter that bolstered their offense when they needed it. So like when push comes to shove, when I think about this series, when I think about this team, when I think about them winning the championship,

the best attribute of this team is their defense. When push comes to shove and it's time for them to win, they just tighten the screws and teams can't score. and they were able to dominate the margins. Those huge offensive rebounds from Chet and Isaiah Hardinstein in the fourth quarter. The steals at half court, Dork got another big one down the stretch where he drew a foul.

How many times in this game like four or five times where they ripped a pacer, usually Halliburton, right at half court? Almost every one of them led to buckets. We pull up the points off of turnovers here real quick. Yeah, we had on 16 pacer turnovers, 25 points for the thunder going the other way. That's a huge margin there.

The grifting drives me crazy, but it's a way to win basketball games. In the modern NBA, like we could talk all we want. It got rewarded in this game. And it's generally been rewarded. There have been a couple of lane line bump fouls that Shay's gone for in the series that he hasn't gotten,

but there's ultimately that's a margin. It's a competitive margin. and it's a margin that Shea's really good at. And that has been a big part of how they were able to overcome a lot of mediocre half-court offense in this game. Looking forward, as we talk about how this series progresses, do I think this has a good chance to go seven? Yeah, because Indiana, especially in a non-urgent situation for the Thunder

where they're up three to, Indiana at home is going to be tough to be like in that sort of situation. So I think the series has a decent chance to go seven. but whenever it happens, whether it's game five and the Pacers play hard and keep things close, but there's five minutes left and the thunder need to tighten the screws or whether it's in game six in the fourth quarter, it inevitably ends up in a game seven in the fourth quarter. When it really comes down to this next four or five minute stretch is going to determine who wins the finals, Oklahoma City is going to tighten the screws and Indiana is not going to be able to score.

and that ultimately is what is what makes them the champion when it's all said and done and that's ultimately why I think Oklahoma City is going to win. It's the guards and their unwillingness to get screened, physical switching. As bad as Shea was tonight, I thought he was very good defensively in the second half. I got a huge block on a stepback three at the top of the key, had some steals and pokeaways, you had like an over-the-top steel and a post-entry. Even Shea gets involved in what they do defensively. Chet homegrin. Chet's ability to switch in ball screens. And like, yeah, Halliburton's got them a few times in the series, got them with a little scoop shot there in the fourth quarter. Or for the most part, Chet's ability to switch onto the perimeter and have success

there makes their defense kind of impregnable in a lot of ways. Because their guards don't get screened. And if they happen to get screened, they can switch just about anything. And that's the, that's the foundational trait that makes this Thunder team a champion. level team. Before we get to our mailbags, the grifty stuff at the end. I have to just speak up for just a second here. To be clear, the Thunder won this game with their defense. The Thunder would have won this game, I believe,

even if one or two of these fouls didn't go Oklahoma City's direction. But one of the things I've talked about is with grifting, it's about the television product. I have no problem with Shea Gilder's Alexander taking advantage of competitive advantages that are available to him. So for instance, if you're standing in the NBA and the guy's got his hand on his shoulder, like just sitting there on Shea's right shoulder, and you just go up and you, like, you're standing there in that position, you should just go up and throw your arms into

his arm and try to shoot. Why? Because it's going to get rewarded with points. And so you're just taking advantage of a competitive advantage that's available to you. But it's not a good basketball shot. That shouldn't be a shot. It should just be a foul. Like if a guy's going to put his hands on you,

like that. First of all, it's kind of ridiculous considering how much handsiness takes place in every single one of these possessions. Look at how Hansy, Oklahoma City was on defense in the fourth quarter. But like, we don't want to see the finals get decided on a non-basketball shot at the elbow. We don't want to see the finals get decided by knee-smith sliding his feet well in a super-physical possession that literally led to Shea traveling and him going into. to like a step-through floater and bailing him out over some light forearm contact. And by the way, if that's the one call, no one's going to care. That sort of thing is going to happen here or there throughout the finals.

But like that in conjunction with that little touch on the step-through, that Halliburton got fouled worse on his drive, the one that he went into the lane than Shay did on his little hand on the shoulder thing. And then the push-off there right along the baseline. Like if Shea has iconic playoff moments where he hits big, big shots getting separation from defenders, it'll go on historic playoff highlight reels that everyone will remember for all time. But when you see a guy like straight up like doing the same grifty bullshit that he's been doing all season to win a finals game, it's not a fun television product.

It's not fun to watch. And it just kind of was a buzzkill. You know, Jackson and I were talking in the middle of the fourth quarter. this was one of the most entertaining NBA finals that we've ever seen. But my biggest fear in general with Oklahoma City and their success is just that grifty bullshit and how it just makes for an ugly television product. And I wasn't a huge fan of that down the stretch. It just kind of felt like, like guys, you don't like you don't have to give them that call.

Their defense is good enough. They're probably going to win. Shea's a good player. He can knock down shots. He might make shots here or there. By the way, like, this is the thing with the push-off. I don't care about the push-off if you don't call the grifty bullshit. Let Shea push off.

Let the defenders use their hands. That's all I've ever asked for is consistency in that regard. You can't reward Shea with free throws for non-basketball shots or bad basketball. And then also let him get super physical with defenders and shove them off to get to his spots. That's straight up not fair. And I just thought that that was frustrating down the stretch of the game.

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Yes. I have a very different memory of this. We were talking about a thing, a bit for the podcast, where people could call in and say, hey Jonas. And then I wrote down on my little notepad, Hey Jonas, and offered it up as a potential title for the podcast. But thanks for remembering that, guys. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

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And if there's like a thunder fan out there that wants to cape for this shit, I want to hear it. I want to hear it. Yeah, there are some thunder fans in the chat saying, you know, caping for the for the grift. But we got a couple of questions about the refereeing. So I don't know if you want to stay on that for a minute. Yeah, stay on the rest for a minute.

Hey, Jason, I thought the rest tonight called the game much differently than the rest of the playoffs, but at least it felt like it was happening both ways. What was your take on sort of the zoom out of the refereeing, like it being definitely different than earlier in the playoffs. And then specifically it felt like Scott Foster was kind of trying to, you know, put his hands on the game a little bit. Yeah, Scott Foster is one of the most performative refs have ever seen. You can always tell just by like the little extra flare that he puts on all the BS that he does. I was frustrated in general throughout the flow of that game because it's, it goes both ways. Because on the

one hand, it's super physical. It's game for the teams are starting to hate each other. They're starting to get a little chippy. So you got to kind of keep things under control. But at the same time, when the stoppages and the reviews just get so excessive, it really bothers the flow of the game. My thing is one of the most consistent trends that has been frustrating for me watching the thunder in this postseason. And it's the Chris Finch quote. They foul the shit out of you, all game. And then you allow the grifty stuff to happen. I mean, I texted you before that Shay run, when the Pacers built a little bit of a lead, and then we had a lane line bump foul call for J-dub on a on a drive.

And it's just like, it just feels lame. It's like, here comes the Thunder Run. We're headed to the foul line. Like, it just, it feels like that is the way with which they generated offense in a game, like where they played bad offense. And that's the thing is like, I'm a big believer in like, I want good basketball to be rewarded and I want bad basketball to be punished. And I thought that the Thunder played a lot of bad offensive basketball in this game.

They got rewarded with points. Yeah, it's just, it's tough. I understand the Thunder fans and the Shea fans saying, like, what do you want him to do? And it's, at a certain point, it's not Shay's fault. Like, I'm not saying he's the one who's the problem here, but the ecosystem of the fouls and what is allowed on the other end, it's challenging a little bit, I think. Do you agree with me that, like, the problem is you can't, like, like, you got to have one or the other, like, you got to either let Shea push off and let these defenders put their

hands on them. Or you got to call the offensive foul in addition to calling the grippy stuff. I think it's that combined with the the physicality of the contact that's allowed on the other records for. Which is not to take away from the way the Thunder play defense. I don't have a problem with the way the Thunder play defense. Just like I don't have a problem with Andrew Nemhart plays defense on Shady Guild of Alexander for the most part. And I don't have a problem with Tyreys Halliburton leaning into Chet when there's in the bonus to get it, you know, like that's fine. That's basketball. But there's a certain, it becomes it becomes something else sometimes.

And it's just not fun to watch, is the bottom line. Like we don't want to see a huge, iconic playoff game get decided like that. We don't. Like, we want to see the action that they ran that generated Shea, the wide open three at the top of the key,

that felt like a huge playoff shot. That felt like just a massive playoff shot for Shea in a game where he had been pretty rough. The other stuff just felt like him exploiting loopholes. 100%. All right. Next question. move off the raft so everyone in the chat can take a breathing.

Do you think, I love to the chat, of course, do you think, Jason, that the Pacers, now they have to win one game on the road if they want to win the NBA finals, have a better chance in game five or in game seven? Game five for sure. I think there's always a natural kind of ebb and flow back and forth as the series kind of flow. I mean, we even saw Denver take a commanding nine-point lead in the early fourth quarter of game five.

It just, to me, it just doesn't matter because the thunder could be down by 11 with nine and a half minutes left of game five. And I would just feel like they could tighten the screws and then Indiana would suddenly just go life. Like, this is legitimately crazy. It's a consistent trend. Like, they just completely shut your water off. They shut your water off and there's nothing you can do. And again, I do believe their best chance to win is going to be game five. Like, if the Pacers are going to win the series, they win the next two games.

I just don't think, I think when all the stuff is on the line, I don't think anybody can score on this, this Oklahoma City team the way they need to. I think Indiana's one chance as Oklahoma City comes out really flat in game five, and Indiana brings a ton of energy, and all of a sudden it turns into a fourth quarter close game, but somehow Oklahoma City goes colder than Indiana does. That would be their one chance.

Yeah, the, the Dord Caruso combination, plus the switchability and length of Chet on the back end. Like they have so many unbelievable athletes, unbelievable defenders, just a million ways to get stops and a million ways to create havoc. It's really, when they decide we're ratching it up right now, it is, it is startling to watch.

They're the best defense that I've watched in my time covering the league. I just, I can't remember a time where I saw a team consistently strangle the life out of like truly elite. offenses. There have been a lot of really great defenses that have come close. You know, like I think the 2019 Raptors was a very good defense. I think the 2020 Lakers was a very good defense. Even the Warriors in 2022, very good defense. But I don't think any of those defenses come close to just the overwhelming, like, just physical, oppressive ball pressure

and unscreenable, but still switchable. It's just, they're frightening. I tweeted out right at the end of the third quarter. I was like, this is where Oklahoma City is going to throw their best defensive punch and we're going to find out if Indiana can score and they couldn't score. Ultimately, that's that we, we all knew it was coming. Everyone knew. It's like staring everybody right in the face, but it's just as an unconquerable demon. And credit to Shea, you said it earlier, that he was bad, most of the game offensively, but he was very good defensively in the fourth quarter.

He had the block on Halley. I think he had two different poke like steals when they were trying to do a post entry. He was very active. And I think that is sort of what's one of the things amongst the many things with their defense that contributes to them being an all-time defense. They, their worst guy that you're picking on is competent at worst. Yeah. No, I totally agree. It's those last possessions in the game.

It's like those are makeable shots. Like the Tyree's step back against Chad. He got decent separation, but that's a really long defender. He's shooting over. The Nemhard step back that he missed off the back room, like that was a really good contest, even though it was a decent. look like yeah i i think the ones that you'll think back to if you're a pacer fan are the wide open looks that knee smith and turner missed there were there were a solid half dozen great three point looks that knee smith and turner got in this game and they just couldn't make them do you think carlyle

should have gone with like maybe a ben math or matherin came in at the very end but like math are in and and top and more down the stretch of this game it's it's a good question it's one of our questions. Why is my that we got in the chat? Why does Miles Turner get so many minutes when he has been pretty bad for most of the series? And Topin has been so good. And it's it's hard because one of the things that they were getting killed on was the glass. And you know, in theory, Turner's a better better player there on the glass than Top of it. And Neesmith had like nine rebounds. So it's it's tough to to say who they should go with. But it does feel like the top and Siakum front court minutes are the best ones for them. And I think,

Matherin, at least in game three, it felt like he was doing a better job staying attached to some of these guards, Jamie Williams and SGA specifically, than Niesman. So I think if you're a Pacer's fan or if you're Carlisle and you're looking for what, we have a desperation punch. Like hopefully we're just in the game in general. We don't have to do that. But if we need to, if we're down seven with four minutes, what is our big swing? I think it's probably the Matherin and top and over Niesmith and Turner.

I agree. I mean, Niesmith, like, was, he was hacking. He was hacking, like, on a bunch of, like, he hacked Chet on a play where, and again, it's all like, it's good defense in principle until the very end, but it's like, especially with the way that game was getting officiated for Shea. And, and, like, you, you can't be, you can't be as handsy as he was. And it just, it was frustrating. It felt, felt very much like a missed opportunity for Indiana. But, like, the only reason why I, like, even with the stuff with, like, let's say a couple more of those Turner threes go down or something like, dad and Indiana's up by like, you know, 12 going into the fourth quarter instead of seven or

whatever it was. I still, I still just feel like push comes to shove. This Oklahoma City team can tighten the screws and no one can score on them. And that really is, that's the thing that I'm going to remember the most about this team. Yeah. One, one, we got a couple more questions. One from me and then one from a super chat question to end with. I was thinking about the Nismit problem. And a lot of the switches that they got for Shea at the end of the game were guard guard screens where they were like, well, we can switch these. We don't need. need to chase over with them hard we can switch these how if they don't want to switch if we're saying that knee smith is going to get cooked by shay or at least not every time but you know the majority of the

time what's the move there do you just chase over the top and hedge and hope that jalen williams isn't good enough on the back end to beat you like what's this what do you do if you're the pacer's that worked really well down the stretch to get switches yeah all you can do is blitz or hedge those are really your only two options and i mean there are variations of hedges you can like you can do uh you can do like a or really soft like catch hedge where you're primarily just functioning to take away a drive if he turns the corner. But even then, like if you linger at all on the ball and J. Dub slips out. We talk about baked in driving lanes a lot on this show. Basically, to make a long story short, if you slip out of a screen or even if you're just in spot up, a spot up situation

on the opposite wing. So like balls on the right wing, you're standing on the left wing or you're slipping out of a guard guard screen to the left wing. If that defender, is in nail help or if he's lingering in a hedge or doing anything along those lines, all you have to do is throw a swing pass and then rip to the left and then you're in good shape. I think honestly, like if there was a, if there was a mistake made down the stretch from Indiana in terms of their defensive execution, it's the lack of double teams. Like they, they had a lot of success double teaming shade throughout the game. I mean, it's zero cyst. And then down the stretch, they let him play one on one. And they did dig down to the nail,

but it's like you end up giving up closeouts anyway. Like it's just, I would have liked to have seen a little bit more aggression thrown directly at Shea, but none of it matters if Indiana can't score on the other end. And that's what I keep coming back to. Last question. This one is a super chat question from JM. Shout out to you, J.M. Every game in this series, it feels very similar to the OKC Denver series.

OKC blows a fourth quarter leading game one. They win game two by a lot. It was a close game three and then actually make the comeback to win in game four. What is your take on that? it feel similar to you and then does that mean that we're going to get seven of the suits? So it's, I don't think it feels similar in terms of like the basketball because the basketball dynamic in the two series is so different. You know, obviously Yokic was just straight up indomitable at times. Denver, their defense was much more of like a pack to paint. We're mixing

in a lot of zone, more passive, more contained, that kind of thing. Indiana's applying a ton of ball pressure. So there's a lot of like differences in the schematics. The reason why it feels like the Denver series is that this is actually a very common series progression that we see in the history of the NBA, which is you have a massive favorite, or not even a massive favorite, just a favorite. Because I think we can all agree that Oklahoma City probably shouldn't have been favored by as much as they were now. Again, my big misjudgment there was just Oklahoma City's lack of ball handling and not properly accounting for that with Indiana's ball pressure.

But you have this progression that takes place where the underdog steals a game on the road, whether it's game one or game two, it really don't matter. And then they come home and they're super excited. And game three has this like buzzsaw feel. And then you also have to keep in mind like even for the road team, it's still not really that desperate. It's just a one one series, you know? And so they end up getting game three.

But game four always feels like the pivot point. The underdog always knows like if we do not win this game, we're probably not winning this series. And so it brings a level of urgency. And game four kind of takes the feel of a game. seven in terms of like both teams know they desperately need that one. And the better team usually wins that type of game. Like, especially in the pros, like in college, there's a little bit more variance. And that's why the NCAA tournament is the way that it is. But in the pros, there's a

little less variance. And so it kind of feels like the better team tends to win that game for. And, you know, from here, it just comes down to whether or not Indiana has the pride to win one more of these games, especially game six at home. And we've seen teams that don't, you know, we've seen teams that come home in game six and just get rolled. I don't think the Pacers will get rolled. I think that'll be a good competitive game. But like it just, to me, Oklahoma City was the better team and they got punched in the mouth by Indiana. And it's definitely been more precarious than it looked on the surface because of the reasons we've discussed. But ultimately, Oklahoma City is the better team. And when the shit hits the fan and they need to win a game,

they're going to be able to win a game against this team. All right, guys, that's all we have for YouTube tonight. As always, we appreciate you guys for supporting us and supporting the show. Head over to playback.tv slash hoops tonight. We're going to be hanging out there, taking callers. and watching some film. We'll see you guys. We'll see you guys. I appreciate you for listening to and supporting hoops tonight. It would actually be really helpful for us if you guys would take a second and leave a rating and a review. As always, I appreciate you guys. You guys, you guys, you guys, you guys, supporting us. But if you could take a minute to do that, I'd really appreciate it.

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