The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Hoops tonight - Luka & Zion go off, Warriors win 3 in a row, + Anthony Davis hypothetical trade

Episode Date: December 31, 2022

Jason Timpf breaks down Luka & Zion's historic performances, discusses the secret to the Warriors winning 3 straight, and postulates on a hypothetical Anthony Davis trade to the Suns. #herd #volumeSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. Another podcast from some SNL, late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter.

Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year.

Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, what's good, y'all? You're listening to Learn the Hard Way with your favorite therapist and host Kear Games. This space is about black men's experiences, having honest conversations that it's really not safe to have anywhere, but you're having them with a licensed professional who knows what he's doing. How many men carry a suit or armor? It signals to the world that you're not to be played with. And just because you have the capability that does not mean that you need to.

Listen and learn the hard way on the IHard radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. The volume. It's Hoops Tonight presented by Fandul. The NBA season is kicking into gear and there's no better place to get in on the action than with Fandul. The app is safe and secure. Getting your money out is super easy. You can jump into the action at any time during the game with live betting. and I love building those same game parlays.

And Fanduil is now live in Ohio, so use promo code Jason T and download the Fanduel app today to start making every moment more. 21 plus in select states, gambling problem, call 1-800 gambler or visit fanduel.com slash RG in Colorado, Iowa, Michigan, New Jersey, Pennsylvania,

Illinois, Tennessee, Virginia, and Ohio. Called 1-800 next step or text Next Step to 533442 in Arizona. Call 1-8-88-78-9-7-7-77 or visit ccpg.org slash chat in Connecticut. Call 1-8009 with it in Indiana. Visit KSgamblinghelp.com in Kansas. Call 1-877-7-70 stop in L.A. Visit www.mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland.

dial 1-8778-8-Hope-N-Y or text Hope-N-Y to 467-369 in New York. Call 1-800-5-22-4-7-0 in Wyoming or visit www.W.W.W.1-800 gambler.net in West Virginia. All right, welcome to Hoops tonight, presented by Fandle here at The Volume. You guys know the drill before we get started. Subscribe to the volumes YouTube channel so you don't miss any more of our videos. Follow me on Twitter at underscore Jason. so you guys don't miss any show announcements. And the last but not least, if for whatever reason you guys miss one of these videos

and you can't get back over to YouTube to finish, remember you can get them wherever you get your podcasts under hoops tonight. So the Knicks led the Mavericks by nine points with half a minute left. First time in something like 13,000 tries in NBA history that someone came back to win that game. Ironically, very similar instance with the Lakers and the Sixers earlier this year where they were down by nine with I think 28 seconds left. and Anthony Davis actually had a free throw at the end to win that game and he missed it. So that was your other time that it almost happened earlier this season.

Classic things you see in big collapses, like there was a missed free throw at the end of the game. There was a turnover, which was a jump ball effectively that Luke ended up winning the jump ball. And then just some bad Knicks defense, like they conceded an easy post up to Luca Donchich in the final minute on a sideline out of bounds. They just let Christian Wood take a wide open three on the right wing. and then they botched a switch or Spencer Dinwood he got open on the left wing and knocked down a three.

Even on Lucas and won, the crazy putback, not the putback after the missed free throw, but the one before that, Emmanuel quickly was guarding him and missed a box out, and Luca ended up getting an and one. So again, little details.

If you're up nine, with 30 seconds left, you should be able to win that game. You just have to continue to do the job. And that's an important thing I wanted to go on a quick rant about because we saw Chicago and Milwaukee. This happened again last night where Milwaukee

had a big lead late in the game, and then they choked that one away. You know, teams get accustomed to playing a certain way that allows them to gain an advantage in the game. They build a lead playing their brand of basketball. But then what happens is they get a lead, and they get into the fourth quarter, and instead of continuing to play the style of basketball, they played when they got the lead, they changed their style of play, and they start to pull their foot off the gas, and they start to try to strangle the pace and work the shot clock down every single time, and there's very little player movement,

and then teams slowly start to chip away at them because usually those possessions end in late-clock jump shots. Jump shots lead to long rebounds. Long rebounds lead to transition opportunities. The other team is trying to play fast because they're desperate and things tend to fall apart. So a little less in there. You know, obviously you want to rein in your decision-making a little bit.

Like you want to take away the high-d difficulty plays or the high-risk, high-reward passes. But you want to continue to play with the same style of play that you had when you got the, lead in the first place. Sometimes teams are so obsessed with running the clock out that they end of costing themselves games in the process. But then Luke could close the deal in OT with a nifty turn-around jump shot over Julius Randall. He finished the game with 60 points, 21 rebounds, and 10 assists, which is just ludicrous. I mean, what words am I supposed to use to say,

what words should I use to describe what's effectively a stat line that not even Willed Chamberlain that at his peak could have pulled off. Every time I dive into Luca film, I'm always amazed with the ease with which that he gets to his spots. And, you know, there's a combination of a couple of different things that he does to get to his spots that I think in particular, young players should pay very close attention to. So there's two concepts that I wanted to talk about really quick with Luca.

First of all is the way that his ball fakes and his body fakes allow him to get defenders out of position. Because at its core, in order for Luca to get to his safety, spots, he has to beat Supreme athletes off the dribble. We're talking about supreme athletes in the entire NBA, because those are the types of defenders that are getting the Luca matchup. In general, and Luca, look, again, if we saw Luca playing in a pickup game, he'd be one of the most athletic players on the floor.

But in the NBA, he's not, like the vast majority of perimeter defenders he goes against are significantly quicker than him, and probably have longer arms than him, probably can jump higher than him. But he has to find a way to get around them and step up. one is using amazing ball fakes and head fakes to get advantages that he can then attack with his size and physicality. I talk about this all the time with my young players when I'm training them with the high school team that I coach. It doesn't matter if you do a dribble combination, like an in-and-out crossover through the legs, if it's just the ball moving. Every single one

of those moves has to be associated with a credible attack. So, If I'm in a high hesitation, the high hesitation isn't going to get a defender to step up on me unless I'm credibly able to rise up and knock down a jump shot. If I do a hard step forward into a step back, I'm not going to get any separation from that unless there's a credible threat that I'm going to drive to the basket. And the same thing goes with every single dribble move. And in and out isn't going to accomplish anything unless you've shown a tendency to cross over to the left side. If you've shown a tendency to cross over to the left side, then when you pull it back,

the defender might lunge that way. Same thing with the crossover, same thing with the between the legs triple, same thing with the behind the back triple. Everything needs to be associated with a credible attack. And that's what's so cool. If you watch Luca, Luca might take a little 15-foot fade away over Julius Randall, but if you watch the possession, he's making six or seven moves. And on every single move, if you pause it right when he's in the bridge of the move,

you're going to see that he could go that way. And he probably has gone that way during that game. game. Everything is built on a counter, and so defenders are constantly off balance. But this is where it's key, because if you beat a guy off the dribble, and he's a better athlete than you, he can recover. And so this is the second lesson. Lesson one, you've got to sell every single move with every part of your body, and you have to have a credible ability to do the counter to that move for it to work. Step two, this is the advantage of having real size and strength as a ball handler. short, don't skip the weight room. When you have an angle and you blow through that angle like Luca

does, in order to stop the recovery from the defender, you've got to be able to pin him on that shoulder or on your backside. That's where the weight room is so important. Luca gets these guys that are supreme athletes pinned on his side or pinned on his backside and then they can't do anything with him because he has them in jail and they're not going to bother him at all at that point. then he can methodically work down to either a mid-range spot, a short-range spot, or all the way to the rim, or to draw that help defender to start making those passes. You know, it's funny because coming into the league, that was the big concern, and a lot of the Luca detractors were so heavily focused on the fact that he was slow

that they didn't think he'd be able to get dribble penetration, but everything, when it comes to dribble penetration, is a combination of what you can do to get defenders off balance. You know, it's kind of like route running in the NFL. If you sell everything well, you don't have to be the fastest guy. You just have to sell every move really well to get people off balance. And then when people are off balance, what is your advantage? Are you super fast?

Because if you're super fast, you're John Morant, you're getting all the way to the room every single time. Are you super strong like Luca is? Then you can pin guys on your backside or on your side and start to work yourself to your spots. 60, 21, and 10 just doesn't even make sense. I wanted to show you guys something just for a little perspective. Usually when we see a big man put up 20 points and 20 rebounds in a game, we considered that complete physical dominance of the game. That was like the Shaq stat or the Dwight Howard Stavert. It's like, oh, 2020, he's controlled that game as a big man.

A 40.10 assist game is considered like an offensive masterpiece for a perimeter initiator, right? That means you're scoring the shit out of the ball and you're creating shots for your teammates. Luca did both in the same game. He had a 2020 game and a 40-10 game separately in the same game. He dominated the game physically and he dominated the game as a perimeter initiator. Absolutely wild stuff. The talent in the NBA is getting out of control. So if we're talking MVP candidates, which we've done a lot over the last week,

we talked about Jason Tatum, who I believe is the Vegas frontrunner right now. We talked about Janice, who was my pick before the season. We talked about Yokic, who's on-off stats are so ridiculous that if the Nuggets finished well enough, he's going to be in that conversation. We talked about KD the other day, who if the season ended right now, would be my pick for MVP. And Luke is playing just as well as those four guys are. So we have like, now obviously the Mavericks need to win more games, but we have like five guys that are really legitimate MVP candidates. And then you have like Steph Curry, Joel and B., John Morant, Zion Williamson.

and these are all guys that are kind of like on the fringe of that conversation. It's wild to see nine legitimate MVP candidates this far into the season. You know, if we look at the standings, so the top eight teams in the league right now are Boston, Brooklyn, New Orleans, Denver, Milwaukee, Cleveland, Memphis, Philadelphia. All eight of those teams are separated by just four games in the standings. So what that means is any of those nine names that I mentioned are really just, a few dominant weeks of basketball away from entering the MVP discussion with legitimacy. Obviously, Steph and Luca are the weird ones there because they're so far back, but in the Western Conference, both of them are still not that far back relative to how many games

there are left in the season. So it's crazy to think that, like, I still think Janus will be the one who ends up getting it at the end of the day. I think he's been dealing with a lot of injury issues, and I believe that when they get healthy, they'll go on a run, and Janus will remind everybody what he's capable of. But really, it's any, it's anybody's award at this point, and Luca's just as capable as anybody else. And it seems like every day we focus on someone new, like today it's Luca. There's just another guy the next day that plays insanely well, and then we have to talk about him. But the league is incredibly stacked with talent.

And then you look at it from a global standpoint, Janice, Nicola Yochich, Luca Donchich, and Joel Lambeed. That's four of the top, what, six, seven, eight players in the world, and they're all international players. which makes me really excited just for basketball in the future because, you know, like the NBA is never going to compete with the NFL from a rating standpoint within the U.S. But because basketball is a global game, the actual gap in revenue that their leagues generate is not that crazy. Like, if I'm not mistaken, I think the NFL makes about $17 billion a year

and I think the NBA makes about $10 billion a year, right? And so, like, that's an achievable gap. but that gap can only be achieved outside of the United States because of the stranglehold that the NFL has on the United States. So to see the top of the league, basically half of the top-tier superstars in the league be international players is super exciting. Because what that means is over the course of the next 10 to 15 years,

over the length of these guys' careers, the league will only grow further and further in popularity outside of the United States of America. So it's just a really good time to be an NBA fan. I'm really excited to see where we're going to be 10, 15 years from now. All right, so the Minnesota Timberwolves and the New Orleans Pelicans had a super entertaining game last night. First of all, I am not going to talk about officiating in this game.

Even on that last play with Gobert and Zion, like, he's a straight up, but then as soon as Zion went up, he came down on him. Riffs are always going to call verticality a foul if the arms come down. And like, yeah, are there some calls here? there that I might have disagreed with, sure, but you guys know how I feel about officiating. Like, officiating is on any given day going to benefit one team or the other. I think it's lame to focus on it. It's outside of your control. In general, I think the officiating in the NBA needs work, but it goes with all 30 teams. There is no one that's benefiting from it

more than another team or anything along those lines. And quite frankly, I just think it's boring and uninteresting and you're not going to get me to talk about officiating much. we're just going to focus on the basketball in this particular game. But it was a two-point game early in the third, and then Rudy Gobert committed two quick fouls to start the third quarter. Then Nas-Reed comes in. And in today's episode of Jason Hates' Centers that Can't Shoot, the wolves were plus six in Nas-Reed's minutes last night and minus six with Gobert.

Now, I do want to say I did think that Gobert played a really nice shift in the fourth quarter. He had a nifty transition layup where he took some long steps around a defender to right. He had that kind of Rondo fake where he stuck the ball out and then came around and shot a hook shot. And I thought he defended pretty well, aside from that last play on Zion, like keep your hands up. Like Zion was going to miss that layup. He was completely off balance. Instead, he came down and bailed Zion out with a foul. But Nas Reed came in early in that third quarter and the wolves just took off from there. Natural five out spacing, driving lanes open up. Anthony Edwards started getting to the rim a lot. There was even a really nice play where

Nas Reid caught on a pick and pop with DeAngela Russell and pump faked, and Jonas Valanchunas came out of his shoes. Nas Reid got downhill and made a really nice kickout pass to Austin Rivers in the corner for three. The offense just looks so fluid with Nas Reid on the floor. I also wanted to shout out Jalen Noel here. I think he only finished the game five for 11, but he was really impressive with his shot making in the second half, and he's got some legit three-level scoring ability with some real

athletic pop. He's actually a very exciting young player for them. someone that I think, you know, if you really start to look forward with the Timberwolves, it's hard to imagine DeAngel Russell being here long term. So if that's the case, J-Lo Noel kind of is projecting to be a good two-guard to put alongside Anthony Edwards in the long run. But, you know, and then at Delo, just, DeLo, again, after the game was complaining about Zion playing football. And again, I just think it's lame to complain about officiating.

It makes you sound soft. And the other thing, too, was Zion, before we get into Zion here, because obviously he's the hero of the night, We're going to talk about him a lot. The, yes, he drops his shoulder and tries to run everybody over. So does Janus. So did LeBron in his prime. So did Shack back in the day. But the reality is, regardless of how you feel about it, it's allowed, and it works.

And the three guys who did it before Zion, all won championships. So if we saw Shaq do it and we saw LeBron do it and we saw Yannis do it, you have to understand that Zion going to do it, and it's kind of part of the deal. So you had better build a wall, and you had better put your body on the line, or he's going to be finishing around the rim all game long. That's just the reality. No amount of complaining to the press is going to cover for that. It's the official, I don't care how many a handful of calls either way that you might get to sway because you've been complaining. The reality is, is if you can't stop Zion from getting to the rim, you're going to lose. just like everyone else who came before him.

So it's just a lesson that DeLo and the Wolves need to learn. Really, the rest of the league needs to learn. But I thought the story of this particular game was Zion's passing. He made really nice reads all night long. There was actually a stat that came from the Wolves broadcast that I was watching. More than 60% of Zion's assists this year are to three-point shooters. It's got really good chemistry with Trey Murphy, two plays in the third quarter,

where he drew double teams and made really nice cross-court passes. to Trey Murphy for three. But then in the fourth quarter, it was just a complete wrecking ball of him going to the rim. He also hit a huge three with two minutes left that put the Pels back within two when they were down five. And then he had a defensive play, a steel on a swing pass that he ran out for a dunk

to put the Pelicans up by two with less than a minute left. Then they go down on the other end, and Anthony Edwards just hits Jackson Hayes with like a hesitation, gets downhill with his left hand, and takes like a jump stop and then just elevates up and just dunks on the entire team. And I remember sitting there thinking, like, remember what I told you guys about. And I view him as like a kind of like a guard LeBron, just this relentless downhill threat.

And he's young now, so he's still trying to figure out, you know, the timing of when to do that and when not to. But when he gets going downhill, there's just really nothing anybody can do with him. His finishing ability is really impressive. He had a late, I think it was in the fourth quarter, a drive along the right wing where he went up and under and finished with his left hand. in traffic on the other side of the rim. I think over Jonas Valenciennes, if I remember correctly, and I was like, this is just next level, rim finishing from this guy.

But then we get to the final play. And Zion draws a double team, and he kicks it to Najee Marshall in the corner, he misses a three. Delo throws kind of a pitiful box out towards Dyson Daniels, just kind of turns and puts his back on him. But Dyson's taller, more athletic, and was being more physically aggressive on this play,

gets the offensive rebound, throws a kick pass to Zion who's cutting down the lane, and Anthony Edwards gambles into the passing lane instead of just keeping his body in front of Zion. He gambles and misses, so Zion's got ahead of steam. Rudy Gobert goes up with verticality, and I think he would have got Zion to miss, but he came down with his arms,

and that's going to be a foul call every single time. Then they go down to the other end of the floor, and Anthony Edwards misses... He kind of fell over, trying to dribble towards the baseline and missed a little pull-up jump shot. And then the game was over. But I want to talk about Zion, because the Pelicans have now won four games in a row,

and they are now tied for the third best record in the league. Just two and a half games back of first place in the entire league. Zion is starting to build a real MVP case like we were talking about earlier. So for the season, he's averaging 26, 7, and 5 on 65% true shooting, which is a career high in efficiency. Last 11 games, 31 points, 8 rebounds and 6 assists, 64% from the field, 40% from 3 on low volume, 72% from the line, 2.3 stocks per. game and the Pelicans are seven and four in that span despite Brandon Ingram being out for every

single one of those games. You know, Zion's attack, his success is built on a similar, it doesn't look the same, but it's built on a similar formula to what Janus does. Teams cannot keep him away from the rim with the single defender. Even with teams building walls and stuff, he gets to the rim a ton. He's second in the league in restricted area makes per game at 8.3, and he shoots 70% when he's there. Then, while he's not a surgical passer, he's very good at hitting shooters and cutters when teams build the wall in front of it. So it's one of those things where it's not the same as

Janus, like I said, he's not nearly the defensive player that Janus is, but in terms of fundamentally how he can warp a defense and create shots at the rim or passing to shooters or cutters, it is very similar to what Zion does. Or to what Janus does. So when Zion passes out of the post this year, the Pelican scored one point. 1.19 points per possession, which is best in the league among players who have passed out of the post at least 50 times this year. When he passes out of ISO, the Pelican score 1.06 points per possession, which is third best in the league among players who have done it at least 50 times behind Janus and Joel and Bede. So, like, it's not surgical. You know, it's not Luca, it's not LeBron, it's not Chris Paul, it's not Nicola Yokic.

but because of the amount of gravity he has towards the rim, he is creating shots with the pass at an extremely high level, arguably in the top tier of players in the league, when you're looking at post-ups and isos. So detractors are going to still point to, like, his defensive limitations, which there's some legitimacy there. Like, yes, he's better than he has been. He's more of a defensive playmaker now than he used to be,

kind of like that steel. Like the steel for the dunk, that's defensive playmaking. That's not the same as, like, being. consistently good on the defensive end on a possession-by-possession basis, but he's adding defensive playmaking, which is good. But detractors are going to point to the defensive end, and they're also going to point to the fact that he's missed eight games, which will hurt him in the MVP case.

But he unquestionably has a case. And most importantly, you know, you've got to look at where we are in this field right now. All the top eight teams are four games apart. It might stay jumbled all year, but somebody might pull away. and if somebody pulls away from that group, that guy is going to end up getting the MVP. Like, he would, it would be really hard for me to vote for Zion just because you guys know my criteria. Like, you've got to be in the conversation for best player in the world, and I don't think Zion is. And then, you know, obviously the defensive end of the factor is going to factor insignificantly for me.

So just be, but that's just me that wouldn't necessarily vote for him based on my criteria. Everyone's got different criteria. The voting pool loves new young players. I wouldn't be surprised at all if Zion ended up. getting some MVP votes, especially if the Pelicans end up pulling away from the field. Last on Anthony Edwards, he's really picking up Steam over the course of the last couple weeks. Obviously, he's great last night. He's averaging 29.7 rebounds and six assists in his last six games. Really benefiting from the spacing provided from those lineups with Nas Reid at center.

Shooting 50% from the field, 39% from 3 and 79% from the line. We're not going to do a deep dive into Ants today. I'm going to save that for some other time, but I did want to give him a quick shout out. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all,

embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying.

Yep, that's me, Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show.

This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast, it's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So, if you've ever supported me, or you're just chasing down a dream,

this is right where you need to be. Listen to the Clifford Show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Hey, this is Robert from the Stuff to Blow Your Mind podcast. Joe and I are both lifelong Star Wars fan, so we're celebrating May the 4th with a brand new week of fun, thought-provoking Star Wars-related episodes. Join us as we tackle science and culture topics from a galaxy far, far away, such as the biology of tontons and wampas on the ice planet hot, or the practicality and corporate business sense of the Sith rule of two.

Listen to stuff to blow your mind on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Looking to get more out of the NFL this season? Well, now is the perfect time to download Fanduel, America's number one sportsbook, because new customers can get a no-sweat first bet up to $1,000. That's free bets back if your first bet doesn't win. Just download the Fandle Sportsbook app.

It's safe, secure, and super easy to use. Then you can bet on everything. from the money line to touchdown scores to over under yards. My two favorite bets this week are the Buccaneers and the Packers at home, two teams that desperately need wins at home led by two of the great quarterbacks of all time. Plus, Fandual even lets you combine your bets for a chance at a bigger payout with a same game parlay. Fanduel is also live in Maryland. So Marylanders, make sure you get in on the action, also with great offers just for you.

So don't miss the chance to get your no-swet first bet. up to $1,000 in free bets when you join Fandul with promo code Jason T. Make every moment more with Fandul an official sports betting partner of the NFL. So the Warriors, an impressive come from behind win against the Jazz last night for their third straight win, finishing up at 112.107 at home against Utah. What I'm going to do, because there's a couple of specific things that I want to talk about with specific players. but I think the easiest way for me to do that

is to go through the comeback on a play-by-play type of basis kind of dive into each guy as we go along. So we're going to zoom in on the Warriors trailing 101 to 97 in the fourth quarter. So Jonathan Camiga ends up making a great rotation on Jared Vanderbilt at the rim and forces a stop. The Warriors run out and Anthony Lamb leads the break, drops it off to tie Jerome, he makes a couple shot bakes

and makes a layup. And then on the other end, Lori Markin and Misses, is a three, they go to Jonathan Kaminga on the post on the right block, and he ends up drawing a foul on a post up and making both free throws to tie the game at 101. So first of all, Jonathan Kaminga has been a nice little release valve over the course of the last few games, particularly in the post, for a team that's needed shot creation, obviously, with Steph Curry being out, which is exciting, obviously, for his individual development, but most importantly, they just need options right now as they're trying to float this particular

stretch. And Jonathan Camingo scored on a post-up to the tune of two points in each of the last three games. And I don't think he had scored out of the post at all in the previous five or six games. Overall in the season, with his recent success, he's elevated himself to 31 points on 34 post-ups total, which is 0.9-1 points per possession, which really is not bad for a player his age, especially since you have to factor in that that's been much better as of late. So it was 101 101,

and Jordan Clarkson runs a pick and roll with Jared Vanderbilt. And Kevin Luni comes up, Kvon Luni comes up to the level of the screen, so Jared Vandebilt ends up getting behind him on the roll to the basket. And Ty Jerome is in the weak side corner. And because Loonie's up at the level of the screen, Jared Vandalbilt is rolling behind Luni to the rim. And what Jerome does is he fakes like he's going to tag the roller

and then comes out back to the shooter. And it completely fools DeAngo Russell. He throws the skip pass to the corner, and Jerome just picks it off, takes it down the length of the floor, and shoots a transition pull-up three, sticks it to put them up 104 to 101. I thought it was the play of the game last night that kind of changed the momentum. Obviously, it was a tie game at that point, but that was the play that really, you could tell the crowd was in it at that point,

and you could tell that the team really believed they could win at that point. After that really nice game against the Grizzlies the other night, Ty Jerome followed that up last night. It was 17 points on 50% shooting, and he grabs seven rebounds. He's playing some good ball. Again, they just needed some ball handling, and Tidram stepped up. He's plus 27 in his minutes during this three-game winning streak. So it's 104-101.

Lori Markinen misses a wide-open corner three. The Warriors go down, and Dante Divencenzhenzo runs pick-and-roll with Kavanaugh-N-Luny. Keli-O-Linnik is guarding Kavanaugh-N-Luny, and he's in drop, so he's way back. Lori Markinen is guarding Dante DiVincenzo on the ball, and he goes under the screen. Dante DiVincenzo just dribbles over the top of the screen and just sticks a pull-up three. He's had three 17-plus point games since the Steph Curry injury. Again, like I said before, we're tied to Rome. They needed somebody to step up on offense, and those two guys in particular, Dante and Thai

have done some really nice work during this stretch without step. So it's 107 to 101 at that point, and we're going to fast forward a few possessions. now it's 107 to 103 with two and a half minutes left. So Mike Conley runs a staggered pick and roll with a guard at the front and then a big at the end. And Jordan Poole and Dante DiVincenzo switched the first screen, but right as he's about to go off the second screen, Mike Conley rejects it and just completely dust everybody. Now he's heading downhill.

So he's going downhill with Jared Vanderbilt coming out of the dunker spot two-on-one with only Draymond Green there. And Draymond Green steps up, forces Mike. Connolly to throw the drop-off pass, then Draymond turns and just on a drop step, rises up and blocks Jared Vanderbilt at the rim. Then they go down the other end and the Warriors miss a couple shots at the rim. They missed a couple offensive rebound putbacks. I think Jordan Poole missed like a floater and then Draymond missed a put-back and then Jonathan Camina missed a put-back. Then Lori Marketing and Kelly Olinick run a pick and roll on the other end of the floor.

And Cominga and Ty Jerome Switch, Jerome switches out onto Markening. Marketing and just quick spins, like a really nasty spin move to get downhill. Again, dusts everybody, and he's just going right down towards the rim. All there is is Draymond Green and Jared Vanderbilt in the dunker spot. Except for this time, Lori Marketing is scared to throw the drop-off pass because he just saw Dremont, he erased that shot at the rim, so instead he tries to score over Dremont. Dremont, contests it beautifully, forces him to double pump, and he misses the layout. again, it was 107 to 103.

Those two-on-one downhill pick-and-roll possessions are a bucket for every single other defensive player in the league, except for maybe three or four. It's like Rudy Gobert, Anthony Davis, Janice, Santinacompo, and Dremont, Grie. That would have tied the game, those two possessions. But Dremont just erased those possessions with just ridiculous defensive plays around the rim. A couple possessions later, Jordan Clarkson hits a super tough step back to re. So it's 107 to 101, 106. Then Jordan Poole gets into the mix with a nasty crossover driving layup on Mike Conley to put them up 109, 106.

He's averaging 28 points since Steph went down. He hasn't been super efficient, but he's been getting to the line a lot. He's attempting eight free throws a game during that span. Again, I'm not a huge fan of guys that can draw fouls. Obviously, I complain about that a lot on this show. there's a difference between grifting and getting players out of position to draw fouls. And I don't get the vibe from Jordan Poole that he's grifting. So let's just call them eight honorable free throw attempts per game. But most importantly, with free throw attempts, it allows you to set your defense. Because on those possessions, you're resting, everyone's back. You're just, you're much more likely to get a stop in that specific static situation. So even though Jordan Poole hasn't been super efficient, I think when you factor in the free throw

attempts, it actually kind of evens out to some pretty productive 28 point per game scoring from Jordan Poole. So Mike Conley goes down and he misses a floater and Kelly O'Linnick gets an offensive rebound, rises up to take a hookshot, and Draymond Green off of a straight vert with no momentum rises up and blocks Kelly O'Linnick's hook shot. The Warriors allowed just six points over the last seven and a half minutes of the fourth quarter. And all I can say here is do not take Draymond Green for granted. I'm not sure why he's so polarizing even among Warriors fans. I think a lot of people really struggle with his box score numbers if it's surface level type of stuff. He was only two for seven from the field from

two for seven from the field last night. I can get why that's discouraging in some in some ways. I actually think Draymond Green's a good offensive player if you factor in the fact that he's one of the better short-roll passers in the league. So when Steph is drawing traps or when Jordan Poole is drawing traps, he's so good at making the right reeds barreling down the lane. He's also just a great passer in general with a live dribble in the open floor. So the Warriors get a lot of good stuff in fast break because Dremont can rise up and grab a rebound and start to break by himself to find open shooters. And then most of his spacing concerns by his inability to shoot or he's been knocking down some shots lately,

but most of his spacing concerns are mitigated by him just quickly going into dribble handoffs. Like we've talked about so much on the show that the Warriors do with Loon. and Draymond to get open shots. So, you know, like, I actually think Drayman's pretty good offensively, but regardless, he's polarizing for some reason. And I think one of the big reasons why is I think people don't really quite see the defensive value

to the extent that it really is. And I think that's sad because I think he's one of the best defensive players of all time. And, you know, when we look at this warrior's era, like, Steph is the ultimate foundational piece. That goes without saying. I think he might be the best offensive player ever. Like the guys who are above him all time

are all monsters on the defensive end, but he might be the best offensive player ever. He makes everything work on that end of the floor. Steph Curry is the ultimate foundational piece of this dynasty. But what is the second biggest foundational piece of this dynasty? I think it's Draymond Green and what he can do on the defensive end of the floor. He is their defensive ceiling.

His ability to protect the rim. What he does is a captain of the defensive. defense in terms of communicating and organizing guys. You know, obviously he's loud. He's talking through coverages, can snuff out plays before, you know, he can see plays before they're happening, that kind of thing. And then also what he can do switching onto the perimeter to guard wings and guards, like what he did to Jalen Brown in the finals last year, all of that makes him, you know, especially with him being only six foot six, he's kind of one of the great anomalies in NBA history. But what he does on the defensive end of the floor is the second most important foundation

piece of this entire dynasty. You know, it doesn't take away from Steph's greatness. No one wins championships by themselves. But make no mistake, there is no Warriors dynasty without Draymond Green. I just wanted to, like, I thought he was so incredible defensively down the stretch that game. They probably lose that game if anybody other than Draymond Green is out there defensively in that fourth quarter.

But this three-game win streak means the Warriors are now four and three since the Steph injury. So they're above 500. Their upcoming schedule. Portland, at home. Atlanta, at home. Detroit, at home. Orlando, at home. The Phoenix Suns without Devin Booker at home. Those are all winnable games. Like, four and one is on the table for that stretch. And then they go on the road, but it's on the road for San Antonio, Chicago, and Washington. Those are all winnable games. Now, then things get really tough and they go to a pretty crazy

stretch of their schedule, but that doesn't start until January 19th. And Steph Curry, should be back at that point because he did say he's going to start getting back on the court probably January 1st, which is what, Sunday? So, like, he's going to maybe take a week or two to get his conditioning, but he should be back out on the floor at that point. So all things considered, this really couldn't have gone much better for the warriors under the circumstances. This stretch without Steph is probably going to end several games above 500. That's crazy. They're going to gain ground considering the fact that they were below 500 when the injury actually took place on that night against Indiana. You know, my theory is, as we talked about, like so many of the Warriors' problems this year,

there's some depth stuff with the bench, but they really solved that to a good extent. Not completely solved, but they remedied that problem to a good extent by staggering their starters with their bench better. So, like, I believe that a good portion of their issues was a lack of urgency. And a blessing in disguise with the staff injuries, it seems to have triggered that urgency. because the night in, night out commitment to the work has been much better. And they're actually playing some pretty damn good basketball without Steph right now. They are one of the most talented teams in the league. Do I think they're as talented as Boston?

Probably not. Do I think they're as talented as the clippers are top to bottom? Probably not. But they're right up there. And they just weren't playing hard enough, consistently enough, especially on the road for the first chunk of this season. But there is a lot of talent there. And you're seeing that with them winning some games without Steph now. This show is going to be a little bit different than most of the stuff that we've done over the course of this season.

It's going to be entirely focused around a hypothetical trade. So, no, that sounds crazy, but it gives us a chance to talk about two teams that are kind of struggling right now. And I find this particular trade very interesting. So last night, I was just talking with the buddy of my name Sam. Sam covers the Warriors with Light Years. Those of you guys who listen to that show, him and Andy do an amazing job covering that team. their engagement with the fans. It's a very engaging show, and they're also really smart basketball minds as well. And I was bouncing my big trade idea off of Sam, that idea being

Darius Garland for O'G Annanobie, which I think makes so much sense on so many different levels for both of those teams. And he came back at me with a trade involving the Los Angeles Lakers and the Phoenix Suns that I thought about a lot this morning, and I think it makes a ton of sense. So what we're going to do today is we're going to dive into that trade from a bunch of different angles. And I'm really curious to hear what you guys think. If you think it's insane, tell me in the comments. If you dislike it for one reason or another, if you tweak it in any way, put that in the comments as well, and I'll check that out later tonight. You guys know the drill before we get started, subscribe to the volumes YouTube channel so you don't miss any more of our

videos. Follow me on Twitter at underscore Jason LT, so you guys don't miss any show announcements. Then last but not least, if for whatever reason you guys miss one of these shows and you can't get back over to YouTube to finish, remember you can find them wherever you get your podcasts under hoops tonight. So foundationally, the reason why this trade makes sense is both of these teams, the Sons and the Lakers, are in crisis mode. The Phoenix Sons were the runaway best team in the NBA last year. They won 64 games. Then they started hot this year. They started 15 and 6, which was the third best record in basketball when the calendar flipped over to December. But then December happened. And they've been 5 and 10 during this month, which is the fifth worst record in the league.

their defense has completely fallen apart. They have the 27th best defensive rating in the league in December, and they have slipped all the way down to fifth in the West. And now they're going to be without Devin Booker, who's their best player, for at least a month. But more importantly, and this is the big reason why I view the Sons as in crisis mode, because when you look at the standings, they're not that far back. But more importantly, we've seen the ceiling of this team.

We know fundamentally that when you have Booker and Paul, with DeAndre Aiton and the role players that they have, even with all the talent they have down the roster, at the very highest levels. When they play against the best players in the world, there seems to be a ceiling to what they can do. Booker and Paul have not been able to rise to that level. So I think they are in full crisis mode,

and I think that they'd probably be more willing to break things apart than people realize. Then we have the Lakers who lost to Miami last night. They're now 14 and 21. They're still playing solid basketball with LeBron on the floor, but they can't do a damn thing on either end. the floor when he's off the floor. After the game, LeBron said, quote, I am a winner, and I want to win and give myself a chance to win and still compete for a championship. Playing basketball at this

level just to be playing basketball is not in my DNA. It's not in my DNA anymore, end quote. So LeBron now starting to basically publicly come out and imply that he's not happy with where the roster's at. And now they're in this weird predicament where they're so far down in the standings that things look kind of bleak even with Anthony Davis returning. a few weeks. We had a report a couple days ago that Anthony Davis is not feeling any pain in his foot, and seven to ten days from now they're going to reevaluate him and probably ramp him back up. But this idea that, you know, the Warriors are going to probably not do anything, that's something that we kind of saw coming into the season. They set the team up for failure. Then they'd fail.

Then they wouldn't do anything. We're not going to hash that out again. We've hashed that a million times on this show. But Sam proposed a trade between the Sons and the Lakers that I think makes an alarming amount of sense for both teams. So what I'm going to do is I'm going to give you guys the framework of the trade. Then I'm going to look at it from the Lakers perspective, and then I'm going to look at it from the Sons perspective. So the framework of this trade would be Anthony Davis to the Sons, and Jay Crowder, DeAndre Aiton, and three first round picks to the Lakers. So now there's a couple of caveats first. So the trade cannot be executed till January 15th, per the CBA rules surrounding the new deal that Aiton signed. And D'Andi And D'Aton would have veto power over

any trade for the rest of this season. Although I doubt DeAndreighton would veto a Lakers trade. Why? Well, let's just talk about what his role would look like with the Lakers. Obviously, it's great to go to L.A. I also think he'd just be used a lot more there. So first of all, with the Lakers, I'm a huge believer in the LeBron and Anthony Davis core,

when they're healthy, as you guys know. When Anthony Davis is actually good the way he was over the course of this season and not kind of disengaged and out of shape the way he was the previous two seasons. When Anthony Davis is playing like that and LeBron James is playing the way he's been playing, you saw what happened when they went into Milwaukee and beat the bucks. They still have a ceiling as high as anybody else in the league. But this is the third consecutive season that Anthony Davis has suffered a significant injury causing him to miss significant time.

And I also think he's had a huge workload in Los Angeles because of the roster limitations that has exacerbated that particular issue. Then we look at DeAndreighton. DeAndreighton is a super talented 24-year-old player that immediately gives you a legit center to build your defensive foundation on. Yes, he's had some issues with missing games himself, but not nearly to the extent that Anthony Davis has had,

and he's younger. He's 24 years old, so it's far more likely that he'll be available in the coming years than Anthony Davis has been. And most importantly, and this is a big part of it, you know, I think Deandreton's capable of a lot more offensive creation than what he's shown in Phoenix. They're a pick and roll offense with two outstanding pick and roll ball handlers.

The vast majority of their offensive organization is geared towards those guards and not towards getting D'Andratton touches. He does get touches, but they're typically as a role man or as a pop man not usually in the post. When he does get the ball in the post, he's been good. He scored 1.02 points per possession on post-ups, which is really solid. That's 16th in the league among players who have attempted at least 50 shots on post-ups. He's also shooting 46% on jumpers this year, including 39% from 3, albeit on low volume. I think when DeAndre gets into his late 20s, he's going to be a very reliable jump shooter on volume.

He's already a pretty dependable jump shooter right now on lower volume. He's not a perfect player. Like he can take some possessions off. We know he can be pouty. He can have bad defensive games. But, I mean, I also want to cut him some slack because clearly he doesn't want to be in Phoenix. He went out and signed with another team. And Phoenix made him come back, obviously, with an arrangement that's in the CBA to protect your draft right.

So I don't have any problem with it. But make no mistake, the sons don't really want him. And he doesn't really want to be there. So I think that probably factors into his behavior a little bit. That said, I do believe it's a little bit in his personality where he could take some possessions and games off and have a bad attitude from time to time. But to zoom out, DeAndreitin is very, very good. And he probably will get much better. that's just a fact at this point.

What would the Lakers do with DeAndre Aiton if they got him in that kind of trait? So there's basically two directions you can go from there. You can, because we've got to look at it like this. You're also getting J. Crowder in that deal, who's not my favorite wing in the world, but with how, I say thin, the Lakers do not have wings. They just don't. So even though Crowder is not my favorite wing in the world, he would immediately fill a very specific roster need and make them a lot better in that specific area.

roster, and with the influx of three first-round picks, you would now have five tradable first-round picks within this season. So from there, you'd have two directions you could go as the Lakers. You could win now with LeBron. You have a solid front-court rotation there with LeBron, DeAndreighton, Jay Crowder, and Thomas Bryant. You flip Russell Westbrook, Patrick Beverly, Kendrick Nunn, and all of those draft picks for as much talent as you possibly can find. I'd call the Wizards and try to throw Russ and a three, four, five pick. to try to get Bradley Beal. You could call the Pistons and try to get Boyin-Begonovic.

You could call the jazz and try to get some real shooting that they don't really have on the roster. You could call Charlotte and try to get some of the younger athletic wings. They have over 60 million in tradable salary that doesn't really touch their core players and five draft picks. There's a lot you can do there and still have Austin Reeves, Lonnie Walker, Dennis Schroeder, LeBron James, DeAndreight and Jay Crowder.

It still have like a little foundation to pair with whatever you can bring back in the trade market. And the key there is LeBron has been a top five player in the world over the last five weeks. In his last 17 games, he's averaging 30 points, eight rebounds, and six assists on 61% true shooting, which is outrageous box score production, and the Lakers are outscoring teams by five points per 100 possessions over that span when LeBron is on the floor. with arguably the worst supporting cast in the league. So as ridiculous as it might sound, you know, when we're talking about retooling around a guy who's 38 years old,

it's a legitimate option that's on the table. But the second option there is full rebuild. If you do nothing or if you trade Anthony Davis this season and you don't invest in him after that, LeBron will probably request a trade in this offseason. Now that's a whole separate conversation because that'll be a really ugly moment in Lakers. history for LeBron's first trade request to be before his 21st season.

And there's a case to be made that that big of a fiasco would make it very difficult for the Lakers to bring in stars in the future because as long as Rob Polinka's at the helm, they won't get anybody. But even if they fired Rob Polinka and brought somebody else in, Jeannie Bus is now the poorest owner in the NBA. And as we know, when you want to compete at the highest levels on a year-by-year basis, you have to be willing to dip into the tax. and Jeannie Bus let Alex Caruso go,

a player that would be monumentally helpful to them for $10 million a year. Obviously with the luxury tax of 30, but Jeannie Bus can't foot that bill. She's the poorest owner in the NBA. So, you know, this whole thing going up in flames would be a disaster for Jeannie Bus, which is precisely why it's so important for her to protect competency during this phase. But if they did decide to go the whole rebuild route,

even at LeBron's age, he still has some kind of value, and he would bring back some kind of asset return. How much we don't know. I mean, LeBron being this good at his age is so unprecedented that we don't really have anything to fall back on there. I don't really have any idea what he would fetch. I mean, I would imagine on the low end of the spectrum, you're going to get a combination of two young players and picks, whether that's two young players or two first or one player, one first. I would think that would be the low end, potentially more, if LeBron finished. the year healthy.

But let's just say for the sake of argument that it's two first-round picks, okay? That puts you, because at that point they also get another draft pick going into next season that's tradable. So going in the next season, they would then have eight, I can't get my fingers right, eight tradable first-round draft picks. Crowder is an expiring, so he'd be off the books. All you'd have on the cap sheet would be DeAndre Aten, who's a max contract, but an affordable and tradable max contract.

He only makes 32 next year, 34, the first. following 36 the year after that. Damien Jones has a player option for 2.6 million. Max Christie is on the books for 1.7 million, which is very little. So if you flip LeBron after the season, you've got a ton of draft picks to work with and an open cap sheet, or there's another direction you can go. Because when the LeBron, if they trade LeBron, there's two directions they can go. You can target expiring contracts for cap flexibility in which case you're probably going to get less in the way of draft compensation. Like maybe it's expiring contracts, but you only get one first round pick, you know,

or one first round pick and a second round pick, right? But the other route you can go is you take on salary with draft picks and you use that salary partnered with those eight draft picks to go trade for a star. Like we talked about earlier, the incompetency that the Lakers have demonstrated to the league will make it hard for them to get stars. So having draft capital that you can pair up with salary is actually a good thing for them, especially in the modern NBA,

where that's turned out kind of one of the better ways to get stars in the first place. So no matter what, you have some real flexibility there with lots of draft picks in either cap space or salary filler. That leaves two interesting options for the Lakers. You can win now with Aiton, or you can go the full rebuild route. Looking over at the Sons,

Crowder isn't with the team right now, so there's no real loss there. Phoenix clearly doesn't like Aiton, like we talked about earlier, it's mutual unhappiness. And Anthony Davis, when healthy this year, was one of the five best players in basketball.

He's been the best defensive player in the league this year when he was available. He rediscovered his jump shot during this recent run, which was making him a terrifying ISO and post-up threat. And in Phoenix's pick and roll attack, which is basically the lion's share of where they were in their offense, he'd be a much better version of Aiton. He's a better vertical spacer. He's a better passer out of the short roll.

He's got better hands. DeAndre Aten also has great hands, but Anthony Davis's ability to catch and finish and pick and roll is insane. And he's better at beating switches. 16 players in the league this year have logged at least 75 role man possessions, and AD is second in the league. On a points per possession basis at 1.37. Trivia, who's first. it's Christian Wood. That's with the Lakers team, too, that's so devoid of talent

that Anthony Davis is typically catching in traffic surrounded by two or three bodies at a time. So I think he significantly raises Phoenix's ceiling on both ends of the floor. But most importantly, he gives Phoenix a player that can go toe to toe with the best players in the world. They ran into Janus, and Janus was too much for them. They ran into Luca, and Luca was too much for them.

This year, it'll be someone else. Do you want to have Anthony Davis on your team so that you can look eye to eye with that guy and feel like you like your chances? Or do you want to have a repeat of the same history that we've had over the last couple of seasons? I've seen Anthony Davis give Nicola Yokic fits and outplay him in a playoff series.

I've seen Anthony Davis give Joel Embed fits. I've seen Anthony Davis give Janice and Tenacompo fits. He's that ultimate ceiling-raising piece that the sons need. and because of his injury history, he's getable in a way that Kevin Durant is not. And that's what I think makes him so interesting. I've seen a lot of Suns fans saying, like, oh, we should go get Kyle Kuzma. And I really like Kyle Kuzma, and I think that he would really help a team with legitimate title aspirations.

But specifically for the Suns, I don't think it raises their ceiling enough because the stars are still the issue. But most importantly, if you make that trade, it kind of resets the culture. Like, ever since that loss to Luca, the sons have had a weird energy around them. And a lot of that, I think, stems from the negativity of the Aiton relationship. So not only does it make you much better within this season because you alleviate some of that negativity, but then you kind of have an interesting core to move forward with between Devin Booker and Cam Johnson, who I really like, and Anthony Davis, that's a really interesting core that you can build even new teams around in the future. So to me, I think it makes a lot of sense for both teams,

gives the Lakers some options to potentially contend in the immediate future and to contend in the future. And I think it gives the Suns a real championship ceiling that they've lacked over the last couple of years. So I think it makes sense. Obviously, with any of these trades, there's a great deal of unlikeliness or unlikelyhood just because of the fact that so many things have to break right for a trade

to get consummated. But I'm really interested to hear what you guys think. So if you guys think it's stupid, tell me. If you don't like it for one team more than the other, tell me. If you would tweak it in any way, tell me. But I'm genuinely curious what you guys think. And I also want to hear some other AD trade ideas because I do think that's a direction the Lakers could end up going before the deadline.

All right, guys, that is all I have for today. We are going to take the rest of the weekend off. And then we'll be back Monday to talk about the MVP showdown between Nicola Yokic and Jason Tatum. As always, I sincerely appreciate your guys as support. And I'll see you guys on Monday. Another podcast from some SNL, late-night comedy guy, not quite on humor. with Robert Smygel and friends,

me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, S&L's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes.

Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque.

Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, what's good, y'all?

You're listening to learn the hard way with your favorite therapist and host, Kear Games. This space is about black men's experiences, having honest conversations that it's really not safe to have anywhere, but you're having them with a licensed professional who knows what he's doing. How many men carry a suit or armor. It signals to the world that you're not to be played with. And just because you have the capability that does not mean that you need to,

listen to learn the hard way on the IHard radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. This is an IHart podcast. Guaranteed human.