The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Hoops Tonight - Mark Titus on Chris Paul’s fit with Steph Curry on the Warriors & NBA Draft recap

Episode Date: June 28, 2023

Jason Timpf is joined by Mark Titus of Barstool Sports to recap the NBA Draft. Mark gives his take on who the Charlotte Hornets should have taken at No. 2 between Brandon Miller and Scoot Henderson, and how the Lakers and Warriors did in the back half of the draft selecting Jalen Hood-Schifino and Brandin Podziemski, respectively. The guys also discuss the Phoenix Suns trading Chris Paul to the Golden State Warriors and how CP3 fits on a team with Steph Curry, Klay Thompson, and Draymond Green. #volume #herdSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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We have a very special guest, Mr. Mark Titus from over at Barstool Sports. We actually talked for a little while just before the NBA finals. And I had a blast talking hoops with Mark. We hit a bunch of stuff that was kind of ancillary topics about the NBA. that I liked getting into. And so I've got a couple of fun ideas for that. But we're also going to be hitting some of the draft picks at the top mark as someone who covers college basketball very closely,

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So for starters, we ended up being pretty right about the NBA finals there, didn't we? We were right. We were right, Jason. Let's clap it up for us for being. What a brave stance you took. We were the only two people in the world that said the nuggets were much better than the heat. And I'll be damned we were right. So with the NBA draft, let's just start here actually because I find this super interesting.

So if my knowledge of the situation is correct, four of the top five players went a route that avoided the NCAA to get there. Obviously, Victor, a traditional European prospect. but as you go down the list between Scoot Henderson going through G League Ignite and then the Thompson twins going, which I'm not even, which route did they go? Over time. It's overtime elite. Yeah. And this is confusing for college people as well.

We're not entirely sure what overtime elite is. I don't know if the Thompson twins are entirely sure what overtime elite is. I don't know if overtime people are entirely sure what it is. But as far as I know, my consumption of overtime. time elite content exists just on Instagram that like they'll I'll see like a clip from like something that's called overtime it feels like dude perfect kind of like they just have like a factory where they play basketball and then put out clips or something and I'm I don't know but the Thompson twins seem very good and I'm excited to see them play in the NBA but uh the the the scouting on these

guys is hilarious because I don't know how you watch them I don't know where yeah well and the and the competition like who else is going that specific route it almost like takes on a weird vibe you You know how like when you're watching European prospects and you're like, oh, he's playing in like a church gym. Like what is what's going on here? Like there's like this weird court and like everything about it feels very produced. But for the Thompson twins though, because like they, they are both of them are just disgusting athletes, like just ridiculous raw prospects. It probably was the best route for them to go, honestly, from the standpoint of marketing.

Right. And but to your point, like it is you introduced me as the college basketball guy and that's why we had him on to talk about the NBA draft, but I feel like his time is going to go on. My value is a college basketball guy with the NBA draft is going to, it's going to wane immensely because I feel like you're better suited to have an overtime elite or a Metropolitan's 92 or a G-League Ignite expert to talk about this draft because, yeah, it is for the people in my life that follow college basketball closely, this, it wasn't a surprise because I think going to the draft, like this is the, the, the, the,

The way the draft shook out is what people expected, not just leading it up to the draft, but like, I mean, months and months and months ago, obviously Victor Wenbanian was going to go number one for a very long time. But the college basketball fans of my life were definitely like scratching their head thinking, damn, times have changed. You know, like we're used to, we're used to, especially the guy like me growing up in the 90s, you would watch college basketball. The draft would come around. And generally the five All-Americans, the five first team All-Americans, you would see them pick like in the first. at least 15 picks probably, 20 picks. Like it was just kind of how it worked.

And to have a guy like Oscar Sheewey who I'm, I don't even know if you know who Oscar Sheaway is. No, I don't. Oscar Sheewey, like that's, that's where we're at now with college basketball NBA relationship, is that Oscar Sheeweigh, not this past season, but two seasons ago, was the national player of the year at Kentucky.

This was not a man who was playing at a tiny school on the West Coast. This was not a man who, you know, was, was not in the public eye. He was very, he was at one of the biggest brands, if not the biggest brand in college basketball, won the National Player of the Year award, goes undrafted and nobody even really seems to care or notice or anything else.

That's crazy. It's crazy because up until 2004, Jamir Nelson was the first guy who was National Player of the Year in college basketball to not go in the top 10, Jason. So not only the guys, like, not only was winning National Player of the Year a guarantee to get drafted,

up until 2004, every single guy that won national player there in college basketball, went in the top 10. And now in less than a 20 year span from Jemir Nelson going, I think you went like 20th that year in 04. And he ended up being awesome, by the way. Yeah, and he was good. And then Frank Mason was the first guy a few years ago, five years ago, I want to say, that goes Yeah, Frank. Yeah, Frank goes in the second round. And that was kind of like a paradigm shift where you're like, whoa, this is crazy, a national player of year in the second round. And it's just the way

it's moved so quickly to where now you have national players of the year. Zach Eady won it in Purdue this year. He was the national player. It put his name in the draft. The feedback he got was basically like, you're not guaranteed first round. So he's back at Purdue. And I guess that's just where we're at with like the relationship

because it's so, uh, it's frankly just foreign to me because that's how I grew up consuming basketball. I was like, yeah, if you're one of the best players in college, you might not be the number one overall pick, but like your game is going to translate. And now I don't know if it's,

if it's representative of the, the split that's kind of happened where it's too. different sports or if it's more that like NBA people are a little smarter about what they want from players versus just trusting if you put up big numbers in college, you're probably going to be good in the NBA. I don't know what's more to blame is the right word. But yeah, it's wild. It's wild to watch the draft as a college basketball fan. I'll put it that way. Well, and maybe it has something to do with the fact that a lot of the top end prospects just not even playing at that level. And so the overall level of competition freaking them out a little bit.

So really quickly, before we move on to Brandon Miller, do you think? this is a trend like do you think this is what it's going to look like in the top of lottery moving forward did you think this was kind of an anomaly i well i think name image likeness stuff with college basketball is going to uh i think some of the the talent that goes pro um might be more interested now in going college because he can make some substantial money going to college route but uh no i i do think that that it's never going to go back to the way it was and i do think that uh kind of what i was speaking about earlier like the guys who are dominant in college i don't think are going to be, the scouting of the stuff isn't as simple as like, let's take the first team

all-American. So I don't think, I don't think we're going to go back to that because I do think that the sports are drastically different with how they're played. And I think that that's going to continue. I mean, there is some sort of push at the college level from a small faction of people to make it more like the NBA. But I think if you talk to the people that live and breathe college basketball, we want college basketball to be different than NBA. Because if you, if you turn college basketball into the NBA and you widen the lane and you link them the three-point line and you shorten the shot, then what's the point of watching college basketball? At that point, you're like, why would I watch this when the diversion of, you know, so the oddities of that

sport are what draws people to it. But with that, I think the people that succeed at college basketball are necessarily going to be the guys that the NBA wants. And I think that is here to say. I think the idea of like the guys winning national player of the year going undrafted. I think that's going to be more normal but asking like are our GILI ignite and overtime elite are we going to see more of that? I think that this was probably anomaly because I think I think like the scoot Henderson's of the world are now going to start getting offers for like $500,000 to play it. You know, in Kansas per year. And I think I think he's going to look at that and be like, yeah, I could go, I could go to,

I could go play college basketball for one year. So that's the way that makes sense to me. That makes sense to me. It seems like, yeah, like there's just too much money going around. I mean, we're seeing guys who's the kid that from Michigan that, transferred right before his final season. Like that, I think we're going to see a lot of that kind of stuff.

And to your point about changing the rules, like, I'm 100% with you. Like the level of play is not great at that level. So if you want to make it look exactly like the NBA, it's just going to be a bad television product because the players aren't as good. It's got to have a unique kind of like, it's got to have a unique kind of traditional feel to it in order for it to drive up

its entertainment value because the quality of the play is not great. So the closer three point line, the collegiate rules, the systems that they run, you know, it's, you don't want it to look like NBA basketball. I think that kind of defeats the purpose. Exactly. And those guys don't have the skills. So if you do make it look like NBA basketball in terms of the rules, the style of, it's just going to look disgusting. And the 24-second shot clock, I mean, these guys have trouble creating offense with a 30-second shot clock.

You shave six seconds off. It's going to get even worse. So, but no, the final thought on this, on this sort of stuff, I just want to say is like, I do think, though, it's interesting hearing people talk about, like, I don't know if college basketball is dying or just kind of the shift that's going on. But for what it's worth, the people that do love college basketball,

I don't think we care about what the draft means for our sport. You know, I think the mistake that NBA people make is believing that college basketball exists solely to be a minor league system for the NBA. And that is just not true. And I don't, I don't blame NBA people for seeing that that way. Because if I was, if I only cared about the NBA, that's how I would see it. This is the, this is the feeder system, Darley. But I swear to God, if Ohio State this, this next season,

you told me they were the number one team in the country going into the season. But the caveat is that every single guy on the team is as talented as I was. And there, you know, like, there's been such a talent drain in college basketball that like, this is what the number one team in the country looks like is that they're as good as I was. I would I would just stroke my shoulders and be like, hell yeah, let's go. Number one, baby, we're going to win the national. Like that's, I don't watch the sport. So I, you know, so it's not disheartening to me that Victor Wimbunbinole and Scoot Henderson aren't and the Thompson twins aren't playing in college. That's not why I watch the sport. And I think there are a ton of people across the

country that are that way. And the mistake, that's the only way I would describe is like, I think NBA people think that the reason people watch college. is that we think that this is the best best. We're not stupid, Jason. Like, we know we understand that the NBA players are more talented. There are so many other reasons that we watch. And as long as those reasons exist, then the talent, yes, we would prefer to have the best players in the world, the best non-N NBA players in the world be playing in college. But if they're not, we're still going to watch and we're still going to care immensely about whether our teams go to a final four. That was such an important layer to the whole paying the players thing that just never got brought up.

And I'm pro playing the players for the record. But it just, just like anything else, it's a complicated topic. And one of the complications is everyone's like, oh, well, they're driving all this revenue. They're driving all this revenue. And I'm like, yeah, they do and they deserve to be paid. But like you're lying to yourself if you don't think the Duke across the chest also brings people to the arena and gets people to tune into the game, regardless of the players that are on the floor. Obviously, if there was a massive talent drain, it would hurt ratings. But there's no doubt that the brands of the universities also drives a great deal of traffic.

and that just never got brought up in that debate. It's like it was so much more complicated that people were willing to admit. Yeah, it is. It is. And it's weird because the conversations that are had privately are very different than the conversations you have publicly, which is fascinating to me because you talk to coaches

and the people making the decisions in college basketball. And the way they talk about the name image likeness and the transfer portal and all that sort of stuff is very, very different than when there's a microphone and camera in front of their face. And they know that recruits are watching you know. So I find that hilarious.

It's just like nobody really likes the changes that are going on, but it's just kind of a necessary thing that has to happen because I think the powers that be got a little too greedy. And yeah, it does kind of stink right now. But anyway, I don't think it's that big of a deal, though. I don't think this is an indictment on college. I don't think this draft. That's the way I say.

I don't think it's an indictment on college basketball. I think it's just more representative of how different these two sports are becoming, which, I mean, honestly, it does sort of make me sad because I love bad. I mean, that's what we talked about. You came on my show. I just love basketball, man. I watch, you, you can throw any basketball game on television. I want to watch it at any level.

I'll watch high school if it's on. I don't love it as much, but like that's, I, and so to see, I don't want to say it's like a war, but it does sort of feel like there are walls being built where like, you know, the crossover that used to exist when I would, when I was growing up doesn't seem to be as, as prevalent today. And that's kind of a bummer, but it is what it is. I don't know. That's part of getting older.

Changes it. We're becoming the grumpy guys on the porch. That's what's happening. So we're going to do the draft picks rapid fire style. I've got four picks for you. Just give me a quick 30 second. This is what Mark Titus thought about this dude watching him this season. Okay.

Number one, Brandon Miller. Super long. Great jump shot. Struggled finishing at the rim. like weird I can't get the NCAA out of my mind had one of the worst NCAA tournaments

anyone's ever had literally anyone in the history of the tournament I think the San Diego State game where he couldn't they ran him off the three point line and then made him try to finish on their shot blockers

and it did not go well he was three for 19 I think that's like the worst case scenario of Brandon Miller and then the other concern I have is that the one game that everyone points to as to why he was awesome

happened against 11 and 21 South Carolina Carolina team. They went to overtime and he had 41 points and everyone's like, that's why he's going to be a superstar in the NBA. And I was like, they won 11 games this year. That team did that it. But I do like him. I think he's very good.

I just think that like, yeah, there are some concerns there. And I think he's going to be a good NBA player, not a great NBA player. Yeah, which is kind of like the, everyone kind of points to Paul George as one of his comps. And I think that's definitely the top end because because of the shiftingness. to pull up. But like, here's the thing, Paul George, has he ever been a top 10 player in the league? Like, it's hard to say. And so that, that, let's, one quick follow up, do you, would you have taken Scoot Henderson instead? I would have. Yeah, I love Scoot. I think, I think Scoot's got the,

the, I, I think Scoot's got the, I, I think Scoot's higher than Brehna Miller's in my mind, because I think Scoot is, uh, the, the reason people seem to talk to themselves out of Scoot is because he's smaller and he's like, it feels like guys like him are more a dime a dozen and six, nine guys that can shoot threes so smoothly aren't but uh i i'm i'm i'm more that's the reason i like scudis because i'm more familiar with like seeing a guy like him who's just like explosive a tank that can go to the basket and finish through contact and all that sort of that feels more familiar to me so that's the reason i like like whereas brandon miller it's just like he his game is a little he could shoot but like i i think he succeeded this year because you're so much taller and people

could just rise up and shoot over him and is that going to be something he's going to be able to do in the NBA consistently. I don't know what else. Let's see it against Jaden McDaniels. Let's see what that looks like. Yeah, exactly, exactly. So, but he was, but for what is, I mean, Brandon Miller was dominant this year and was awesome,

but the NCAA tournament, I just can't get that out of my head. Like, I'm an old school guy. I think the biggest, brightest stage. I want to see how good you are. And he was a little banged up, but like that, that, that San Diego State game was disgusting.

That was just a disgusting game of basketball from Brandon. Six turnovers, three for 19. It's basically a Paul George stat line to be honest. He got put like the psychological torture chamber too because it was so obvious what Sandigo State was doing. They were just daring him to take mid-range jump shots. He wouldn't do it. It was it was just a gross display of basketball.

And yeah, for that for that reason, I was like, you can't take this guy number two. And then the Hornets were like, watch this. The number one high school prospect in the class of 2022 was Derek lively. He ended up playing only about 20 minutes a game for. Duke. He did have a legendary shot blocking gamer hit eight blocks. Can he anchor a decent defense in Dallas? I think he can eventually. I think he's the thing I love about Derek lively is that he he has a very high defensive basketball IQ, which is to say that like he he has a good feel for like challenging shots and like knowing when guys are going to go up with their shot. He's a

really good shot blocker. Great timing, great instincts. Super long. And also has a has a very high voter, which is underrated for young centers. I mean, I think this is, I've done this exercise with people before, but I'm like, think about like some of the most frustrating basketball players you've ever watched in your life and just make a list. Now look at that list. They're all 70% of them are probably centers. And the reason they're so frustrating is because normal people like you and I, Jason,

watch big guys and we lose our minds because we're like, if we were that big, we would just be dunking on everybody and blocking every shot. And why can't, John Dr. Aiton, why can't you care more, you know? Derek lively cares. He's got a high mode. He's going to run the floor. He's going to, I do think he can, he's got like some mechanic issues where like sometimes his rotation is not as clean and fluid as I would like it to be.

But I think he's going to be very, very good defensively. Now, the problem with him is offensively, I'm not really sure what he brings to the table at all, which is why he didn't put up like eye popping stats for Duke. Why he didn't play a ton for Duke? The other issue I have is he does file a ton. I mean, he got in foul trouble, like constantly. That's a reason he didn't. That's why his minutes were down, you think?

That's why his minutes were down. I think he can be that guy. Now, part of the appeal of a rookie like him is that he's not going to come in and try. The Mabs aren't going to ask him, obviously, with the roster that they have. They're not going to be like, you're our first round pick. You are now the face of our franchise, like some rookies. You know, some rookies, that's what's expected to them. That's obviously not going to happen with him.

And he's going to be put in a position where it's like just play really hard. and play the dunker role on offense, and that's all we really need out of you. And I think he can excel at that, but he's got to, he's got to figure out how to protect the rim without fouling a little more. But I really, really like him. And I think Duke's, like the second half of this Duke season, Duke was a little rocky to start the season, but the second half, they really, really came on. And they were, they were looking really dangerous.

They ended up losing to Tennessee in the NCAA tournament, which that game barely resembled basketball. That was just a rock fight that, that, uh, I think their bigs were bigger. Yeah, yeah, that was just. just that, I don't, that, I rarely cheer for Duke to win a game. And by the end of that game, I was like, man, I hope Duke wins this because they were getting the shit kicked out of them. And it felt like it wasn't even basketball anymore. Yeah. But Duke, Duke had some serious momentum. They were sort of a trendy pick for people to win to the NCAA tournament, honestly,

and a big reason why is because Derek lively had like exploded into the best, certainly the best interior defender, if not the best defender in all of college basketball. So I think the potential is there. He's just got to, He's got to clean up his fouling a little bit. And I, but otherwise, he's got great, great instincts for a young big man, I think. His motor was the first thing that stood out to me watching, like, that dude plays hard. And then when you combine that with his mobility, like his ability to like come up and show on the level of the screen and then sprint back into the paint to be able to guard the role man or protect the paint, like, yeah, I see this. Let's just put it this way.

The last time we had a kid with his physical tools, motor and like natural defensive. instincts had turned into Nick Claxton, who was basically the foundational piece of a really good defense there in Brooklyn last year. So like I actually really like this pick, but just like with anything else, there's also a million guys who kind of came up with this type of physical profile. It just didn't, it just didn't materialize into anything. So, but that's the draft. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year.

Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college.

football or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast.

It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So, if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to The Clifford Show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tap Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people.

I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do a little kill? Well, you can find out on the Look Back at It podcast. I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick it here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill, waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 is big to me, not just because of crack.

I'm down to talk about crack on day, but just so you all know. I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack. so I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now. Thank you finishing that sentence. Yes. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really?

Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Brandon Podzamsky. With the Warriors, obviously. a little bit of a log jam at the guard position already with Chris Paul and with Steph Curry, Clay Thompson. Do you think he's someone that can help them right away or do you view him as like a future

trade vehicle? I, yeah, Pajemsky, like the appeal of Pajewski is on the Warriors is that, but I feel like we've done this with the Warriors since Steph and Clay exploded into who they are where every single draft pick they get, you're just like, oh, that's perfect. That's a perfect. It's a perfect spot. Yeah. It's great for the rookie they just took because now they can,

now they can kind of what I was just saying about lively where like you're not expected to come in and be the guy. I feel like that's what we say about every single warrior's picked. You're just like, oh, that's perfect for him because you can just go in and not, he can learn behind Steph and Clay. And then when it's his time, he can be the guy. I actually don't love it for him because I, like you said, there's a log jam at guards. I, he was the most polarizing prospect I felt for this draft.

Like people I talked to because he, his feel for the game. is incredible. So his story is he went to Illinois for a year. He averaged like he barely, not only was he an afterthought on this Illinois team, I don't even know if people even knew he was on the Illinois team. I don't even know if Brad Underwood knew he was on Illinois team.

He averaged like one point a game. He was putting up tightest stat lines for Illinois. Transfers to Santa Clara doesn't sit out a year. There's not like there's not like some like cocoon period where he's like blossom, you know, taking his time to like blossom

Or Lidipo, Instagram, like six-pack photos. Yeah. No, he just like basically just transferred and immediately turned into the West Coast Conference player of the year was putting up numbers this year for Santa Clara that were absurd. And, you know, it depends on how you want to look at it. And that's why he's so polarizing it because some people were like, he was being obviously held back at Illinois. And he wasn't, he wasn't given a chance to flourish. And like when you put the ball in his hands and let him cook, he's going to be.

He's so good. He's got an incredible feel for the game. great catch and shoot guy. I have more of a pessimistic view, which is like I trust that Brad Underwood saw something with his, like he's not a great athlete. I don't think he can keep his shadow in front of him defensively. And I'm worried about that because I think like he felt to me like a guy at Santa Clara

that like, yes, he is really good when he has the ball in his hands, but like that's not going to happen to gold. Like Golden State is not going to throw him out here and be like, all right, for the next five minutes, it's all you. Yeah, you're running all the office. offense. So I think he's going to be really good as a catch and shoot guy for Golden State. I think like in certain scenarios where the ball ends up in his hand late in a shot clock, maybe he can dip into some of the magic he had at Santa Clara. But he's not a great athlete. He's not, I don't know how much he's going to create offense for himself. But his feel for the game, Jason, I will say like as much as as I don't think the physical traits are there. I do think that like he's got a great IQ and he has a great touch from like every spot on the floor. So like you can kind of. You can kind of. kind of see the vision, but he feels a little bit like, like, I don't think he's anywhere close to as good as Dante Divencino.

Um, and when you think about it like that, like Dante Divencino to me was a guy that I was really excited about when he was coming out of college and not that he's had a bad NBA career, but he's just kind of, he's just kind of like a throw in for the Warriors, isn't he? I mean, does Dante Divens, he's not an integral part of what the Warriors are doing? So I don't think I, I, it's an interesting pick though, because there are people that are very, very high on him. And I, I, the Warriors seem to be high on him because that's why they took him. I felt like they took him a lot earlier than, then. and other teams might have taken him.

So we'll see. I would love to be wrong on him, but I saw that as like a damn. This is a long-term project for them, I think. Well, I think Warriors fans are actually a lot more excited about Jackson Davis than they are about Brandon. And the entire pitch for the pick is Dante Divencenzel replacement. And what they're looking at there is like great rebounder.

Dante was an awesome rebounder. someone to crash the offensive glass constantly and Brandon average something crazy like eight and a half rebounds a game or something like that at Santa Clara. The thing is, is like Dante was a really good athlete, like deceptively good athlete, like very, very quick and was a good ball pressure guard for Golden State. Like Brandon's got short arms. Like he's only got like a six four and a half wing span. That's not doing him any favors. He's a great vertical athlete, but he's not super laterally quick. I do think he'll be actually a little bit better offensively than Dante was.

He's just a more consistent shooter. And then he's got all that weird. The comp that I've seen a lot of draft experts throughout is DeAngelo Russell. And I definitely saw a little bit of that on tape. Like every bucket he gets in the mid-range just looks a little weird. You know what I mean? But I do, I do think he'll be able to help them a little bit offensively. But yeah, like the Dante Diven Chen's own replacement thing is just dead on arrival for me.

Because not only is he not the same type of athlete, but like Dante's had years. years of NBA experience taking on perimeter defensive assignments, learning how to do all of the things that he needed to do to be a functional part of an NBA defense. He's miles better at, like, Devin Chins is a miles better athlete than Pishinsky. But then the other thing, like, you're making the Russell comparison. Like Russell, I like the comparison for a lot of junk to the game and the mid-rate, like you said, like every shot feels a little weird. But with, with a guy like that, you have to have patience as a fan almost where you're willing to let him, have the junk.

He's doing weird shit again. Doing weird shit again. And you're like, I got it. And I think when you go to a team like the Warriors, I don't exactly think the Warriors and the Lakers and the Celtics and, you know, like franchises like that, I don't, I'm going to go ahead and guess that they don't exactly have patient fans that are like,

oh yeah, let's, as we have our title window open, let's also let this guy, like, figure out who he is at the NBA level. This is awesome. Let's use huge minutes of every game to like let this rookie figure out who,

you know, that's not going to happen. Yeah, that's not going to happen. So I don't love it, but, you know, I hope it works out for him because he was fun to watch this year. He was definitely fun. We'll find out one way or another. Okay, really quickly on this one, because I want to spend a couple minutes on Stefan and Chris Paul.

So are Lakers fans going to like Jalen Hutchifino? Do you think he could run a backup unit in the NBA? Yeah, yes, yes. He's got size. His basketball IQs through the roof. If you want to believe in Jailen, Huchafino, go watch the game at Purdue. His mid-range game is elite, his feel for the game. game as a lead. He's obviously got some weaknesses. He's not going to be, you know, the face of the

franchise and all that sort of thing. But yeah, his pick and roll game is for a freshman is absurd. And I really, really like him. He's got to, he's not as great of a shooter as I'd like him to be. And he's definitely got stuff to work on. But I, in the role that you're saying, Jason, I think he's going to be awesome. I do. I don't know if it's going to be right away, but I think he's super, super mature for for a 19 year old. And I watch a lot of, a lot of terrible 19 year olds play point card in college basketball. This is what I do for living. And that guy stood out to me with how poised and mature and understanding of speeds and, you know,

fast to slow, back to fast, back to, you know, just all that kind of stuff. He was so, so good at. And I think he's going to play in the NBA as long as he wants to. Yeah, I, I, he definitely has some issues in pick and roll. Like he's not great at making the cross court pass. That was something that stood out to me, but he's actually really good at feeding the role man, and he did a ton of that with Trace Jackson Davis. So putting him alongside Anthony Davis and LeBron, and the Lakers use those two as screeners constantly. And the real question is, like, can he do what, can he run pick and rolls as efficiently as Lonnie Walker did? Absolutely. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Like, can he step in?

And by the way, like, there's a lot of focus on his shooting, but he shot over 40% on pull-up jumpers last year. So, like, yeah, he's got some issues with his mechanics and catch-and-shoots situations, but he really does shoot the ball well when he's off the bounce. And so can he run a bench unit? I think he can't. My fear is that they put him off the ball more. And he's just like a, if he's like a, if you're putting him in the corner, it's like, his role is like catch and shoot when LeBron draws defenders and he's kicking it out to him. Like, I don't know if I love him in that, but like, yeah, play in the second unit. Yeah, just go. That's my, that's my homework for Lakers fans that want to talk themselves into Hote Chafinos. Go watch the Purdue game. I'm sure highlights are on

YouTube. They're playing job coverage against him with their big center, Zach Edy. And he just diced up. He was hitting mid-range pull-up after mid-range pull-up. And it was just, it was clinical. That's the only word to describe it. And for a freshman point guard, a rivalry game, on the road, all that sort of thing, that just doesn't happen at the college level. And he was, it was honestly a legend. I would remember that game for the rest of my life. And I don't say that lightly. So I'm very high on Hoognevina. I'm going to have to check that game out later. All right. So the biggest and most important question of the day, is it unfair for ESPN to running to be running highlight reels of Steph Curry crossing over Chris Paul while they're

interviewing him about his book and asking questions about the fit with the Warriors. I think Chris Paul kind of, I don't know, as a guy who doesn't live in the Chris Ball universe that much, but just dabbles here every so often, I will say, I do feel like Chris Ball brings a lot of the negative stuff upon himself. I think there's something about him that's just such an easy target for jokes. And like when he was complaining about his son getting comments in school about how his dad will never win a championship, I was, Jason, I was like, get lie, man. That's, that's part of going to junior high.

Like, I can't, I don't know a single person that went to junior high that didn't have to deal with their dad getting jokes. Like that was, that's a, like, that's a comment. Like, at least your, at least his dad is playing in the NBA and it's Chris. Yeah, you're like, how many. How many dads are like in prison or like working like shitty jobs that like, you know, they're getting clowned at the line. lunch table every day by the by the rest of the group so uh stuff like that i think he just brings it

upon them there's some about him that's just like so easy to pick on but uh what what are your thoughts on the trade like is this i felt like this was a perfect this is a perfect NBA trade to me because i think the warriors are demonstrably better i think uh obviously the warriors are one of the brands that the pop and the NBA um and so for for a team like that to get they are they are better basketball team than they were before the trade and and it's going to be uh awesome to watch them now try to go after another championship, but I, but this obviously isn't a deal like Durant going to the Warriors where it's like, yes, one of the teams got, one of the contenders just got better, but now the league's kind of

ruined because we all know what's going to happen. It's not, there's still question marks on how they're going to fit. And for that reason, it's like a perfect trade because it's, it's sexy enough to talk yourself into like, uh-oh, are the warriors now, should they be favored against the nuggets? But then you also see the path where it's like I, as is always the case, every time Chris Paul joins a new team, you say there's only one ball and can Chris Paul be the point God while at the same time letting Steph Curry do everything he does well, can they both do that? It's fascinating.

Oh, it absolutely is. I think in general when we see trades like this, there's the obvious side of it and then there's the more complex side of it. It's like the Bradley Beale trade. It's like, does trading Chris Paul and Landry Shamit for Bradley Beal make you better? Obviously, you know what I mean? Does this flipping Jordan Poole, one of the worst defensive guards in the league and a guy that was super inconsistent

in offensively for a more steady backup guard. Does that make the Warriors better? Obviously. And the case for it, the two, the two elements that I look at is one, they had a, like a, they were plus 47 in the playoffs with step on the floor and minus 49 when he was off. So it's about managing the Steph off minutes, which totally makes sense to me. Two, these are some crazy numbers that I found on Synergy. Steph Curry, uh, ran pick and roll in about the pick and roll or ISO on about 63% of his

play types in the regular season, but that number shot way up to 72% in the postseason, which is natural. Like in the playoffs, they scout your sets. Your sets don't work as effectively a lot of late clock situations where you're bailing out possessions or just you saying, screw it, let's just run high pick and roll time and time again. And so I think Chris Paul gives them that added dimension to their offense in those particular situations. But again, I just look back at the team wide thing and the use of the asset. Like did Phoenix really, need another high pick and roll shot creator or would they have been better off moving assets for like real athletes, kind of like what the Lakers did. Like let's bring back a bunch of dudes

who do the dirty work and let's see if that helps my LeBron James and Anthony Davis core bring us over the top. Like there's a question over the use of the asset for Phoenix. The same thing goes for Golden State. Like would you have been better off taking Jordan Poole's big salary slot and moving him for multiple useful front court players for a team that's been super small? And that's kind of the way that I look at it. It's no doubt Golden State's going to be better. There will be multiple times next year where as a Warriors fan, you're going to be glad you had Chris Paul instead of having Jordan Poole.

But like in a bigger picture, was it the right use of the asset? That's kind of where I'm at. Yeah, I agree. But for me as like a neutral NBA observer, I think that's what makes it a fun trade is because we don't really know. And the trades that happen where you're immediately like, damn, this team just became a juggernaut. And the rest of the league is screwed.

like, okay, so this team's obviously going to be a disaster next year. Those aren't quite as fun because we kind of already know where we're headed. And the Warriors, I don't think it's obvious either way. And it's going to be, they're not going to be bad, obviously. Like, it's not like they're going to bottom out. I don't mean to say that. But yeah, you can talk yourself into like the Warriors should be the favorites to win the title now. Or you could be like, well, we'll have to see.

Like for all the reasons you mentioned. Like, is it a roster that makes 100% sense? Time will tell. We will see. I admire. I admire the fortitude of them being like, this group can do it. This group can do it. And that bet has paid off for them in the past.

It paid off for them in 2022. They have a reason to feel confident in them the way that they do. For what it's worth too, like I do go back to like every time, like I said earlier, every time Chris Ball joins the new team, I'm like, all right, there's one ball. How is this going to work with, you know, if him and Steph are on the floor at the same time, obviously Steph can play off the ball. But like, like I said, like you want Chris Paul to be, if you want to maximize Chris Paul and maximize Steph Curry, can they both.

happen with both of them on the floor at the same time. I don't know. But we said all that about Chris Paul and James Hardin, and I think people, because of who those two guys are, and they're so easy to make fun of, and they're so easy to rip on, that you look back on their time in Houston and consider it a failure because they didn't ever make the finals.

That was a success. Like, that team figured it out. They were very, very good. They should have, they had the Duran Warriors on the road. They were this close. They were this close. So I think if you look back on that, quote-unquote experiment and say,

obviously having two guys that are that want the ball in their hands at all times to do what they do. And that can't work with Chris Paul and someone else who needs the ball. Like it can. We saw it work with the rockets. It just didn't work to the extent that like a lot of brain dead morons that consume basketball think it has to work. It's a success, which is that you have to win a championship. Otherwise, you're a failure. That team was good.

That team was good enough to win a title. Just sometimes in basketball, you miss 27 straight threes, Jason. Sometimes it happens. And there's no doubt that the play styles are weird. I shared the stat, but like the Warriors ran a pick and roll on 24% of their play types during the regular season last year,

which was dead last in the league. And Chris Paul ran it on 77% of his play types, which was number one in the entire league out of all the players. So there's definitely like some fit stuff. But just like with the Houston thing, we always underestimate the power of like just smart basketball players figuring shit out.

They just do. They just find a way more often than not. All right, we are officially out of time. time. But Mark, this was a blast man. I hope we can work together a couple more times this summer to help kill the time between the seasons. I really appreciate you coming on. One last note for everybody listening. We're going to be doing a mailbag episode either Wednesday or Thursday this week, depending on whether or not Damien Lillard finally comes forward and demands a trade. But drop some questions for the mailbag in the comment section. We will hit them later this week.

As always, I appreciate you guys and we will see you tomorrow. Volume. Another podcast from some SNL late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and Friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest,

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