The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Hoops Tonight - Mitchell contract is a Cavs MISTAKE, LeBron latest rumors, Darryn Peterson summer league debut

Episode Date: July 10, 2026

Jason reacts to the Cleveland Cavaliers extending Donovan Mitchell and why it's a mistake; the latest rumors surrounding the next team for former Los Angeles Lakers star LeBron James including the Cavs, the Golden State Warriors, Minnesota Timberwolves, and more; and Darryn Peterson's impressive Summer League debut for the Utah Jazz. Then he answers mailbag questions on a variety of NBA topics. All lines presented by Hard Rock Bet.  #VolumeSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Happy Wednesday, everybody. Hope all of you guys are having a great week so far. I've got a jam-pack show for you guys today. We're going to be reacting to some news around the NBA. Donovan Mitchell, four-year, $273 million extension. I want to talk about my thoughts there, as well as a brief update on the LeBron saga. talk a little bit about the Philadelphia 76ers who are getting a lot of buzz in recent days,

especially as Bob Myers went on the podcast with Rich Paul and Max Kellerman and essentially openly made his case for LeBron to go to Philly as LeBron's kind of bizarre free agency continues to play out. I want to talk a little bit about the Golden State situation with the leverage involving Anthony Davis. Then after that, I want to talk about Darren Peterson's first couple games in Summer League. I think that that is a legitimate data point worth considering when we're talking about Darren and his long-term development. He has

looked amazing in a higher usage on ball role playing for the jazz in Summer League. Then after that, as promised, we're going to get to eight mailbag questions from around the league. We're going to bounce around with a bunch of other topics. You guys know the joke before we get started. Subscribe to the Hoops Tonight YouTube channel.

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We get to them in our mailbags throughout the rest of the season. All right, let's talk some basketball. So details of Donovan Mitchell's contract, four years, $273 million. an average annual value over $68 million. And I'm just going to essentially reiterate what I said after the Cavs lost in the postseason this past year. I, when it comes to Donovan Mitchell, this was my greatest fear for the Cavs,

was you were staring down the barrel of this long extension. And Donovan is, you know, I think Donovan versus Jalen Brown is actually a really good kind of framework to use when you have this discussion. When you're signing up to pay this much money for a player, I think there's a certain expectation that you're going to get a superstar, right? Like a legit, bona fide superstar. But the reality is, there just aren't that many guys like that in the NBA. As of right now, I've got five on my list being just Janice,

Yokic, Luca, Shea, and Victor Weimonyama, put him in whatever. order you want. We'll debate that over the course of the summer. But those are the only five guys that I think are like bona fide top tier superstar talents in the NBA as of right now. And obviously we've got some young players that are up and coming and entering into that conversation. The reality is, is that with the way the CBA works, there will be players that are off of that tier that sign these types of deals. That it kind of comes with the territory. I kind of had a similar conversation when we were talking about Austin Reeves. Everybody wants Austin Reeves to not make 40 million, because they don't, because they think it's going to tie up too much money and they don't

think he's worth it. And then you forget conveniently that there are a lot of players in the NBA that make over 40 million that just aren't that good guys like John Moran, Brandon Ingram, players that Austin Reeves are just like clearly better than, right? And that's just kind of the reality of the NBA is a lot of dudes get paid. And that extends even to the highest levels with these long term extensions. Donovan Mitchell versus Jalen Brown to me is an interesting example of when you're off that superstar tier, what caliber player am I looking for in terms of a person that I'm comfortable tying up this kind of money with? And when I look at Jalen Brown, for all the flaws that exist in his game, and they're fair, and we've talked about

them at length over the course of the last couple of weeks, he's an on an island player. There's a lot of like parts of his game that can struggle over the short sample, right, or over the large sample, excuse me, with the way it shows in the data in the sense that the team doesn't necessarily score super well when he's involved. But there are like two things with Jalen Brown that are Trump cards for me in that specific conversation. One, and they both involve his apex, his apex athleticism. One is the fact that no matter what the caliber of the defense is, I feel like Jalen Brown can get a good shot for himself because of his physical tools, right? So there's a certain amount of like his game becomes immensely valuable in tight space situations

at the highest levels of the NBA playoffs. And I thought he showed that especially in his finals MVP and Eastern Conference Finals, MVP run in 2024. Then you look at the defensive end of the four similarly. one of the most iconic memories to me of Jalen Brown's career is picking up Luca Donchich full court in the 2020-24 NBA finals and doing about as good a job as we've ever seen an individual defender do on a superstar talent in a high-leverage situation like the NBA finals. Jalen Brown brings enough alternative methods to impact winning and enough physical imposition on the game that I'm

comfortable with paying him that kind of money, even though he's off the top tier of superstars. I thought that that was a relatively lame excuse from Boston in terms of moving on from him. There were cases to be made. That was one I didn't understand, but like the financial side of it. I just think, I think Jalen Brown's worth the money. Donovan Mitchell kind of tilts into a type of player that I don't think is worth this kind of money. His primary impact as an NBA player, is as a shock creator. Once you get beyond that, there's not a whole lot else he brings to the table.

He had a miserable offball scoring postseason. He was 10 for 46 on spot-up threes in this year's playoff run, just barely over 20%. That was a huge problem for Cleveland throughout the playoffs. He is not a good defensive player, either on or off the ball. Donovan Mitchell doesn't bring a lot of impact beyond, him being a shot creator.

But then when you dive into the shock creation data, he is a good, not great shot creator. And there are a lot of like specific metrics with that that stand out. Like when you're talking about points per possession metrics, to me, the high volume

pick and roll guys, I want them up over 1.1 points per possession, including passes. I want a high level of efficiency from my primary shock creator in pick and roll. Donovan Mitchell is a level below that. He's usually in the mid 1, like 1.05 territory as a shot creator in pick and roll, including passes. I want strong on off data with the way that, like, because again, what is the role of the

shot creator? Like, dating all the way back to the debate that I had between Donovan Mitchell and Jaylen Brunson back before their playoff series, God, what was that three years ago now when they, when they faced off in the playoffs, the main thing that I was nitpicky about with Donovan Mitchell's game is that he's not a good game manager. Meaning there's a job with a shot creator, which goes deeper than the singular possession, which is it's not about can I score efficiently for myself or can I get a shot that I can make. It's more about I'm about to run or manage 60 to 70 possessions in this game, either by running ball screens or even just getting the ball at the floor versus ball pressure

and getting the ball to the appropriate spot to start the possession, right? Like I am an offensive engine. I'm going to command three, four dozen possessions every single game. And I need to be able to generate not just good shots for myself, but for my team. And that usually manifests in those points per possession, including passes and pick and roll, being higher than the rest of the players in the league. That manifests in strong on-off data. And one of the things that is consistently flashed to the surface with Donovan Mitchell's game,

is that despite the fact that he typically hovers in that, even in the postseason, in that 25 to 30 points per game range and somewhere in the high 50s in true shooting, which is fine. He's not anywhere near as efficient as the upper tier scoring guards in the league, but he's fine. He's right around league average or above as a high volume score, right? Like, despite that, when he's on the floor, it's not generating good team offense. and that is the thing that is consistently risen to the surface. This last postseason run in the, dating through first round, second round conference finals, the Cavs offense was 11 points better per 100 possessions with him off the floor versus when he was on.

The year before when they went to the second round and lost to Indy, the Cavs offense was 15 points better per 100 possessions with him off the floor versus when he was on. Now, there are some stronger data points as you go further back in his career, but now we're talking about a younger, more explosive player. He turns 30 in two months. You want to know why the Hardin-led offenses did better last year? And this is a guy in James Hardin who is not considered one of the great offensive engines in this league. But it's really that simple. Hardin has always been a master of the game management piece. understanding the goal of 50 to 60 possessions that are under his command and how important it is to make easy reads early in the clock that generate flow and get the defense in rotation and help generate quality shots for his teammates. That has been where Donovan Mitchell has struggled. And again, not every offensive engine has to be a hardened level, Luca Donchich level, high volume pick and roll guy. We've seen the likes of Shea Gildes, Alex.

Alexander as a scorer drive that level of offensive impact. But how by being surgically efficient like mid 60s true shooting percentage? By the way, Shea struggled to do that in the postseason, but surgically efficient and they never turn the ball over. Those are the two things you need if you're going to be a score first guard to be one of the great offensive engines in the league. And so when I look at Donovan Mitchell, about to turn 30 in two months, I'm talking about a scoring guard who's not particularly high volume or particularly efficient, who there's pretty strong data points that show that the offense functions better when he's off the floor, not to say that he doesn't carry any offensive value,

just that his offensive impact doesn't necessarily lead to the team scoring at an extremely high level. And then beyond his shot creation talent, he doesn't impact winning in any other way. that tilts to a level of impact that is below that Jalen Brown tier of like non top tier superstar, but a guy that I'd be willing to pay the 35% max to. I think that this was a mistake. I thought that in his current situation, Donovan Mitchell was actually a pretty valuable asset because there are teams out there that would pay Donovan Mitchell and would pay you for his services.

And his value will never, ever, ever again approach the value he was currently holding before this extension. From this point forward, as he's a 30-year-old, and as that extension starts to look more daunting, it will be harder and harder to move him. And again, this isn't Jalen Brown. This isn't a caliber of player where you go, man, I just think we need him to win. I don't think Don. Donovan Mitchell is that level of player for Cleveland. So I thought they should have traded it this off season. Even in the context of LeBron, I think they should have moved him. I would have been calling Dallas and been like, y'all want Donovan Mitchell?

We'll take Kyrie Irvin. I'm getting a better player with more financial flexibility for the future. I just, I was really, really surprised when I saw that deal. And I understand the idea of like, oh, we want stability. we want to demonstrate that we're building something here in Cleveland. I just think that Donovan falls below that kind of mandatory minimum level of talent I'm expecting when I'm tying up that kind of money. And with or without LeBron, you've put yourself in a really tough position in the future.

Let's say Evan Mobley blossoms over the next couple of seasons and you want to make some sort of pivot two, three years from now, it's going to be a hell of a lot harder to do when you've got a guy eating up 70 plus million dollars on your cap who's a 32-year-old small guard who is years removed from when he was a inefficient shot creator. And so I was just really surprised by the deal. Today's show is brought to you by presenting sponsor, Hard Rock Bed, Florida's Sportsbook.

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or you're just getting into the game, there's a seat for you right here. Listen to everyone watches women's sports. On the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. quick update on the LeBron situation. Quickly on the Cavs front, there's been some sort of like explanation that Cleveland actually stands to benefit more on the LeBron front with the Mitchell extension. I don't really understand that at all. I don't know why LeBron would care about Mitchell's extension in particular.

I won't reiterate this any more than I already have other than to just say everyone wants to say that LeBron wants a better role, a better opportunity to command the basketball and to be involved as a playmaker in the offense. And all I can think about is like, I'm not 100% sure Donovan Mitchell is better than Austin Reeves, let alone Luca Donchich. And if LeBron was like going on podcast talking about how he's fine playing that role for now, but not for long, as it pertains to Luca freaking Donchich in Austin Reeves, I don't know why he would suddenly be okay with doing it behind Donovan Mitchell and James Harden. I am going to have a really hard time getting behind the Cavs as a destination

unless they can make some sort of substantial pivot to look like a different basketball team. As is, even if they, like, especially if they dump Struis and Strudor, like a shrew, I think are good basketball players. I don't think the Cavs are particularly good with Mitchell Harden, LeBron, Jared Allen, and Evan Mowgli. I think they're just another good team in the Eastern Conference, not anything that really moves me. On the Philly front, it's really the exact same thing. Everyone wants to talk about how there's this open hole at the four spot. You've got M. Bid,

you got Jalen Brown, you got VJ Edgecombe, you got Tyrese Maxie. Once again, Jalen Brown, as we've talked about, kind of plays on an island. Maxie and M.B., there's a two-man game partnership there for the two of them, but it's a spread pick and roll attack with people occupying the corners and opposite wing. There is not like a rhythm and flow offensively that will come naturally with that group. I think it's a lot of like diminishing returns, right? Like every basketball player has a fit that will maximize their talent and a fit that kind of marginalizes their talent. And to me, LeBron going to a place where he can fill roles physically as a big, strong athletic forward that that team doesn't have. There's a like an enhanced return on that, right? That's like kind of like

just a physical profile. So yeah, does LeBron physically help the Philly at a position of need? Sure. Would he physically help Minnesota at a position of need? Sure. Like, those make sense to me physically, but then you look at his skill set. Again, like, do I think LeBron will have a better jump shooting season next year? Yeah. But do I think if you envision him as a spot up shooter, I think you're going to get diminishing returns. This is why I've been so keyed in on Denver and Golden State. Denver and Golden State are the two teams that can offer LeBron a role that specifically highlights his playmaking talent. Or in a case of Denver,

you want to know why I'm high on Denver? Denver can legitimately space out fives. LeBron has struggled to deal with rim protection for years now because he's played with bigs that can't shoot, including Anthony Davis. And somehow he still gets to the rim a ton, and he's still super efficient when he gets there. Can you imagine a Denver situation

where Yokic is constantly pulling the rim protector away from the basket and LeBron's able to drive with impunity and not have to worry about dealing with rim protection when he gets there. And they don't have another ball handler that is reliable beyond Jamal Murray. So like LeBron is literally your secondary ball handler from the perimeter. And they play with so much flow that LeBron's not going to spend very many possessions standing in the corner there. He's going to be involved in the offense. So a team like Denver can get an enhanced return from LeBron physically and, an enhanced return from LeBron and his skill set. Same thing goes with Golden State.

LeBron would literally be the second best ball handler on the team beyond Steph. Steph does play off ball a ton. Steve Kerr's offense does involve high post playmaking in a variety of off ball screening action and a ton of movement. Those are those are the only two teams that can benefit from LeBron both physically and with this skill set. You go to these other teams and they can benefit physically. The calves would love to have a big. physical forward that can help them in a lot of ways. So would Philly. So would Minnesota. They can't benefit from the skill side of what LeBron brings to the table. There would be a diminishing return there. And frankly, that that's the part that I think is being under discussed

in all of this. I just can't imagine LeBron wants to go spend his final season in the NBA standing in the corner. Miami is the other team. And this is why I think Miami has to be taken seriously. They similarly, LeBron would probably be their most reliable ball handler. Like, I legitimately could see a universe where it's LeBron Janus two-man game at the end of games. And LeBron's either

screening for Yonis, Janus is screening for Lebron and they're dealing with switches, but I could see Yonis like straight up leaning on LeBron as a primary shock creator at the end of games. Like that's a role where and they're going to have to be really good with their interior passing because

they're basically playing two big lineups with Janice and Bam. So like Miami can benefit from LeBron's playmaking talent. It would be a little clunky just because of the team construct, but they at least have a specific need for LeBron's skill set. That's a part that I think it's underdiscust in all of this. Lastly, on the LeBron front, this Golden State AD piece of it. So it was, it's been reported that Washington is asking for the kitchen sink when it comes to the Anthony Davis trade. And I totally understand that. And my whole thing is, like, if there is an understanding that LeBron's not going to Golden State unless they get AD, it does put Golden State in a tough predicament.

Because paying multiple unprotected first for Anthony Davis would be foolish simply because of the fact that that would be way more than Washington originally paid for Anthony Davis. That would be an overpay, right? and you need to be subsequently situated to make additional deals for perimeter talent. If you bring it Anthony Davis, it all goes well. There's a chance you're looking at February and you're like, shit, we're really good, but we need another guard. And it would be really nice to have another first round pick to trade if you had to at that point in time or another wing. You know, with Moses Moody being out and with Andrew Wiggins' departure a few years ago,

like Golden State doesn't have your stereotypical primary point of attack defender. right? Like they need to be situated for a subsequent deal. So they kind of have to hold firm. But at the same time, Washington has no obligation to necessarily get rid of AD. And so I think really where the Golden State part of this comes in is there needs to be a line of communication, essentially that we're going to get this done, but we're going to play a little bit of hardball because we need to make sure that we are situated for subsequent moves. And maybe there's a happy place to be found here where it's, you know, Jimmy Butler, an unprotected first and like two second round picks and a swap or something

like that where you can situate it in a way where you find a happy middle ground between the urgency of the situation, the leverage that Washington has, and the fact that they're going to want to get a decent payday before they just ship Anthony Davis to Golden State. but ultimately if you're golden state, it's not trading draft picks for Anthony Davis. It's trading draft picks for Anthony Davis and LeBron. That's what you have to keep in mind. Everyone shits on the Paul George trade, but that's because Paul George and Kauai couldn't stay healthy and couldn't get the job done. The actual deal in and of itself, if you really think about it, you traded,

Shea Gitzis Alexander and the four first round picks or whatever it was for Paul George and Kauai Leonard. That actually is a decent price tag for two. of what at the time were the top six or seven players in the NBA. Similarly, if you're Golden State, yes, I understand playing a little bit of hardball with Washington, but ultimately you pay what you got to pay if you're going to get Anthony Davis or LeBron, if you're going to get Anthony Davis and LeBron. And lastly, and this is the part that drives me the most crazy about it. If it's not AD, make another move.

I've never really seen anything like this with the team where they command basically the entire future of their. draft, but they have multiple years in a row now where they've got a legendary superstar in his post prime that you seem uninterested in bolstering the talent level at all. And frankly, like I, I understand why if you had like one or two picks left and you had made efforts and nothing had really worked and you were looking towards the future, that's fine. You've passed on everything. You pass on OG and NNobi. You pass on past. I'm passing. the one deal you made was for a distressed star in Jimmy Butler and you gave up one pick.

There has not been a steady intentionality to improve the team to make them better while also having some control of your future. The whole point is, is you're going to be bad. I'm sorry. The warriors are going to suck in the late 2020s. Guaranteed. I don't care if they never sell. I don't care if they don't trade a single pick. and they let Steph ride off into the sunset. They let LeBron go somewhere else. They may start accumulating draft picks right now. They're going to suck in the late 2020s.

Guaranteed. They don't have a single good player in their young core that can actually lead a playoff team or anything close to it. They're going to suck. So if you're going to suck while you're sucking, you can take in assets by taking in bad money and you can quickly recoup the draft compensation that you sent out to improve the team. Like, don't suck for no reason.

When you suck is when you can start accumulating what you need to not suck. And what bothers me about this situation is there is a pathway where the warriors can be very good now. For like two years, you can be really good. and then while you suck in a couple years, you can recoup what you've sent out and build for the future. But what I'm worried is going to happen here for Golden State is they're going to be sitting in a situation where it's 2028, Steph's retired, LeBron's retired, Draymond's retired,

you suck, and it's going to look really bleak. And then it's going to look really bleak the next year. and then it's going to look really bleak the next year. And you're going to be like, man, why didn't we capitalize on that more? Why didn't we make a greater effort to try to make the most of that group? And like even if you don't get LeBron, like if you go get Trey Murphy and you don't get LeBron, you're better this year. And at least you have an opportunity to have more joy and more opportunity

the in in what is the twilight of one of the great eras in NBA history. I just hope they do something, even if it's not involving LeBron. Darren Peterson. So one of the things I said before the draft, if you guys remember, is that I picked AJ Devonsa to go number one, but a couple of specific things. I did say that I think Darren Peterson is a better basketball player right now. And I said there was a good chance that he would be a better NBA player than, than AJ DeBonsa in the short term.

And I specifically said, we could be having a conversation 20, 30 games into the season where we're talking about Darren Peterson as rookie of the year and did the wizards make the wrong pick and all of that kind of stuff. But then I said, I think that Darren Peterson's ceiling is somewhere in that like Devin Booker territory, whereas I think AJ DeBonza has a higher ceiling.

And so as the years go by is where AJ DeBonza could make his number one overall pick decision, the right decision. I felt strongly that way, despite the fact that I'm not the biggest draft guy in the world, as you guys know, but I also am a big believer and don't overthink things. And I also trust my eyes. And I think that this Darren Peterson's summer league debut is like a real data point. It moves me. Does that necessarily mean that he was the wrong pick to take AJ de Bonza number one. No. AJ DeBonce hasn't played yet. That is

kind of an important detail here. It's like we're all kind of getting excited and getting all worked up and Asia de Bonza doesn't play until tomorrow. Jackson and I will be there in the arena to watch. But what I do think is important to acknowledge is that it has been a very long time and it is exceedingly rare to see a guard that is this comfortable as a primary shot creator running high volume pick and roll, high volume ISO at this phase of his career. Darren, the biggest difference between these summer league games and what you shot Kansas was the sheer amount of time that they put the basketball in his hands and let him get into a spread pick and roll attack. If you dig into the numbers at Kansas,

this, Darren only averaged about 7.7 pick and rolls per game, including passes. A lot of off ball work, a lot of catch and shoot opportunities. We haven't seen very many at all in these couple of summer league games. He's not working off the ball at all. It's him live dribble, running ball screens from the top. I obviously don't have the exact numbers, but I'm sure he's running over 20 pick and rolls of games. So we're talking like triple the volume of on ball opportunity compared to what he got at Kansas.

What is interesting there is it's allowed him to like really find a rhythm. And you could see it. Like he's dribbling the ball so much and he's getting so many opportunities that he's really comfortable. He's really settling in. He's not afraid to make a mistake. He had eight turnovers in the first game. Certainly as Mrs. Sherr's shots. He looks comfortable and confident on the ball by virtue of the high.

usage and the many opportunities he's getting to work and pick and roll. From there, there's been a couple of specific things that have really stood out to me. One, one of my concerns when I was scouting him was his first step quickness. And like, is he going to be able to just like look at really good defenders and just get by them off the dribble? And we did see some of that. I had a couple of straight ISOs at the end of the game against Central Coward that were really nice. one off of the right wing where he kind of got a hesitation dribble, got to his left hand, bumped him and shot a little floater. And then he had another one where he shot a little

turnaround fade away in the lane. And I think Cedricoward's kind of a classic, really good NBA perimeter defender talent. So like, he certainly can do that. But I don't think that's going to be, I don't think he's going to be an Anthony Edwards-esque, like, you can't freaking guard me one-on-one type of talent. Where I was super impressed was how he worked in ball screens with like the timing of his attacks, the way he set up defenders, the understanding of leverage and change of pace. If you don't have a great first step, that's the stuff you have to have if you're going to be able to get to your spots. You have to understand like when a defender is caught between steps and you have an opportunity to hit a gap. You have to understand when you can change pace,

how if you like wait for the big to like, if he's showing at the level, but then he recovers, you wait till the big starts backing off before the guard gets in. And then you can, could shoot the gap. He had like a little driving, scooping layup on a similar type of shot off the right wing in one of the two games. He has this like combination of creativity and confidence, but also an understanding of the angles and change of pace where he was consistently just getting to his spots. Oh, I got you kind of trailing the action on the three. I'm going to slow down so that you catch up and you slow down. But then I'm going to hit the pound dribble side step and get plenty of separation and rise over the top. Like, oh, I'm working you downhill in the ball screen.

You're over pursuing towards my left hand drive. I'm going to stop on a diamond. I'm turn over my left shoulder and shoot a little hook. Or I'm going to turn over my left shoulder and shoot a little fade away in the lane. I'm going to bump you off with my right shoulder to get to space. Getting the little moves that help get the defender caught on the screen before he gets going downhill in the ball screen. There was just like a very natural feel. for the pacing of an NBA pick and roll and how to get to his spots out of those actions. And then when you combine that with the shot making and the shot making is ridiculous. And like, I thought one of my favorite shots was the dagger he ended up hitting in the,

I think it was in the game against Memphis where he gets a small on him and he dribbles off the ball screen faces a hard hedge. The hard hedge pushes him way out to half court. But he ends up beating the hedge and the hedge recovers. and he's looking down at the dude and the dude is small is guarding him and he just dribbles into a hesitation pull-up because he knows

I've got separation because of the hedge so I don't have to worry about getting into a specific move let me just rise up over the top the dude can't bother the shot he's too short. There's just like a really good natural scoring. I've always talked about scoring talent to me as like

it's a specific talent. We always think of individual basketball traits. How well do you shoot? How well do you dribble? What's your footwork like? To me, scoring in and of itself is like a very natural trait that some people have. There are a lot of players that are great shooters that rep all the footwork, that rep all the ball handling, but they lack natural scoring field. And again, we've talked about all the time. The scoring feel is about creativity and audacity or confidence, whatever you want to call it. And then skill is the third piece of it. That doesn't work if you don't have supreme confidence in your ability and the

creativity to constantly be kind of reacting to the defense rather than telegraphing what you're doing. That's what that flow is when they talk about a basketball player that's kind of found his rhythm or gotten into a flow. He's just reacting. He's not thinking. He's just playing. And there's a natural scoring talent that just kind of rises out of the player in the form of that creativity. When you get to that like tough left shoulder fade away over cedric coward it's not like he drove into the lane and thought i'm going like at the start of the possession like i'm going to drive at him and i'm going to get to my left shoulder fade no he's just playing basketball and when he makes that hard move to his left and he feels the defender over pursue he knows he can turn over his left shoulder

from there it's a feel thing like oh i've got a ton of space i'll go to the hook like he did in the early one no i'm going to actually need to get a little bit more separation here now i'm going to turn and fade over my left shoulder with a little jump shot. It is very like impromptu improvisational and it requires a certain amount of creativity. And I just think that Darren Peterson's scoring talent was screaming off the screen in these games in a way that was like, oh, this looks fundamentally different than it did at Kansas. And so again, I'm not, no one should ever change their opinion about a player because of two summer leagues. AJ DeBonsa hasn't even had their, his chance to play. But I also think, It's important to acknowledge that like what Darren Peterson showed in those two games

is shit that really works in the NBA. And if you're a jazz fan, you should be extremely excited because he looks a lot better in those two summer league games than the guy we watched at Kansas last year. A lot of basketball to play. The challenges will continue to get tougher as the as the months go by. And as he's playing against real NBA competition and when he's trying to share, like here's the thing cante george is going to have the basketball a lot how does that disrupt darren peterson's rhythm i would argue that'll be helpful because he'll get more of those offball

opportunities too but i just think if i'm a jazz fan i am there's a spectrum of how you could feel about a prospect between he's living up to expectations he's exceeding expectations or he's failing to live up to expectations and through these very small uh this very small data set these couple of summer league games. I think it's a strong data point that Darren Peterson looks even better than we could have hoped to this point as a prospect.

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I'm always searching for inspiration, for support, and useful tools to help maximize joy. So this podcast lets us uncover all of that together. We're going to have these meaningful conversations with those. the world's most fascinating people. Like when actress Olivia Munn shared how she overcame fierce health challenges that she never saw coming. I've gone through breast cancer and then helped my mother through breast cancer and that was more difficult.

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What's up, fam? I'm sports journalist Ari Chambers. Hey, what's up, y'all? It's your girl, Sam Jay. And we're the host of everyone watches women's sports, a new podcast from Together and I Heart Women's Sports. Because let's be real. Women's Sports is giving us way too much to talk about these days. The highlights, the rivalries, the breakout stars, the moments to take over your entire timeline. And the conversations that start during the game and somehow keep going all week. Every week we're breaking down the biggest stories across women's sports.

We'll give you our takes, our debates, and probably a few disagreements. We'll talk to athletes, celebrate big moments and get into what's happening on and off the field, sport, track, and beyond. Because we're not just interested in what happened. We're interested in why everyone's talking about it. Because everyone watches women's sports. So if you're already a fan, you're just getting into the game. you're just getting into the game.

There's a seat for you right here. Listen to everyone watches women's sports. On the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. All right, we're going to rip through this mailback quickly because I went long on the first part of the show. First question, the financial return for a team, the financial return a team would experience for just having LeBron on a team would be immense. I think the Warriors should mortgage a couple of first round picks to maximize Steph's final couple of seasons to acquire late 20s, early 30s players who can be, a transition leader heading into the post-step era. That would also increase the odds of LeBron joining.

That roster would have an incredibly high ceiling with a major risk of availability issues due to injury and load management. Still would be worth it. You only get Steph Curry once in a lifetime and LeBron is on the table. What do you think is the right balance for Golden State to invest their picks and capital now versus a post-step era?

Put on your GM hat. I won't get too far into this because we just talked about it, but I would make a deal. And if your concern is the long-term viability of the team, don't get AD, go get Trey Murphy and DeJante Murray, make some sort of splashy deal with New Orleans. And again, to your point, like, I think there's this idea that draft picks lose their value as soon as you spend them. They only lose their value if you spend them on bad players. Like, yes, if you spend two first round picks on AD, you're probably not going to be able to turn around and trade AD for two equally valuable first round picks.

But let's say you go get Trey Murphy, there's nothing stopping you from turning around trading Trey Murphy two years when Steph and LeBron retire and recouping some of what you sent out, especially if he looks awesome playing alongside LeBron James and Steph Curry. If LeBron retires after a season, you train him in that off season. And you probably recoup a good amount of what you sent out. Just make your team better. Make your team better because maybe it gets you LeBron, but if not, it just makes your team better. I think a lot of this has been overthought from the standpoint of the Warriors front office. Hey Jason, keep up a good work with your content. Question, with the way that these superstars are getting paid $300 million,

would the lower-seated teams or playing teams keep their superstars or trade them before they end up paying them $300,400 million? I don't think teams want to pay out massive contracts to just be a playing team. That goes to the conversation that we had early in the show as it pertains to the difference between like a Jalen Brown and a Donovan Mitchell. The main line of demarcation for me is like multiple areas of impact. We talk about checking boxes on a basketball. team on both ends of the floor. If I'm going to be paying a guy at 35% max, I want him checking a lot

of boxes. The difference between the Donovan Mitchell and a Jalen Brown is with Donovan Mitchell, his one box that he checks his offensive engine and he doesn't check it very well. And there's nothing else that he provides. Is Jalen Brown a mediocre offensive engine too? Yes. But he also comes with a lot of other utility as an athlete and as a defender on the floor. Even if he's not a perfect basketball player, he brings a lot of other value. And that's why with the guy like Jalen Brown, it just kind of rises above what I'd be willing to pay versus, you know, Donovan Mitchell, I'm in a different kind of bracket there.

What is Minnesota's case for LeBron that you want to, why is Minnesota's case for LeBron that you wouldn't want to see LeBron stand in the corner while Lamello and Ant put up bad shots? Lamello came to Minnesota to help facilitate offense. The addition of playmaking directly decreases the style of offense you just described between Rudy, McDaniels, T.J. Shannon, Bones, and Joan Barrenja, that's a good squad.

LeMello and Ants Gravity would help LeBron creatively attack off the catch, find pockets to shoot or put the ball on the floor to kick out. I don't see LeBron standing in the corner. I do believe that generation gap is a factor, so that's a fair point. Adding LeBron to Denver does not fix their core weakness, size, and athleticism. Aaron Gordon's injury concerns aren't cured, and it's tough to say whether Watson will be retained. To be clear, I don't necessarily like Denver unless they can retain Watson, too. Like, I think that's the whole thing, is LeBron, AG, and Watson kind of combine into the amount of front court size and athleticism that they would need.

The big difference, you know, Lamello is an offensive engine, but he's a Lamello, he's an offensive engine as a spread pick and roll creator. He is not an offensive engine like Steph running around off the ball or like Yokic, inverting the gravity of, inverting the rim protection of the defense to the perimeter and running a bunch of like DHOs and keeping everyone involved. Lamello is on an island pick and roll shot creator. Anthony Edwards is literally a guy that loves to shoot over multiple defenders. So like, to me, it's, it's less like, do I think.

that the Minnesota Timberl has have enough offensive talent. Of course they do. It's you're dealing with primary defensive players in Jada McDaniels and Rudy Gobert and who are not necessarily the greatest feel for the game offensive players. And then two kind of on an island offensive guards that are not going to be playing in a style or way that's going to heavily incorporate LeBron James as a playmaker. So to me, it does relegate LeBron to like a Rui Hachamura-esque, staying in the corner and shoot a bunch of catch and shoot threes and occasionally get to run a play when we're in our bench groups or when one of Lamello or aunt is sitting out a game.

But beyond that, I think like when the wolves are at their best, I think LeBron's offensive skill would be marginalized. And from that standpoint, I just don't think it would be as much fun for him. Next question. Even though San Antonio made it to the finals this year, I don't think it's a guarantee like many people say that they're going to be back a ton in the next five to six years. The league is constantly evolving and teams are getting better,

even though I and Nick's fan think we can reach the finals, there's so many factors that come into just making a finals again that don't make it a guarantee. Injuries, more hunger to win it than other teams, bad matchups, and second apron could dictate whether a team wins at all or is a first round exit? So my question is, do you think teams should be changing their rosters every year when we see big star movement each year going forward

like this current offseason based on each team's success in the postseason of the show? I do think that there is a certain amount of like the parody in the league right now is what's instigating the heavy amount of player movement. So I do agree with you there. As far as the like getting back to the finals piece, yeah, absolutely. There's no guarantee. Specifically for San Antonio, like, okay, see, he's running it back and they've got a damn good team. And if J-Dub is healthy and AJ Mitchell's healthy, like I, they're like San Antonio's got their own improvements to make in order to be able to survive that matchup. And yeah, you're right. Like for the Knicks, there's just better teams in the east this year.

Toronto's going to be better. Boston's going to be better. Boston's going to be better if Tatum can stay healthy. There's a, like, you know, we'll see if LeBron ends up going to Miami or Cleveland. Like, you're going to have, Indiana is going to be back. Like, you're going to have like real challenges in the east. And so no one has like an easy path to the finals. But the thing with San Antonio that I think is important to understand is the best trade of their team is defense. Like, it's just really hard to beat the spurs four times out of seven when Steph Castle and Dylan Harper and Victor Wemnon Yama are all on the floor, getting up in your jersey and funneling you into rim protection at the rim. And you also have the internal improves.

admit they're all going to get a lot better over the course of this off season, especially after an embarrassing loss in the finals. Like, do I think the spurs are a safe bet to make the finals? No, but they're just, I'm telling you right now, they're going to be my championship favorite next year. Next question. Hey, Jason, given O'KC's offseason moves, bringing in a day Mara alongside Bennett Sturts and Otega away, how do you see Mark Degnell adjusting O'KC's frontline defensive and playmaking geometry specifically to counter the San Antonio Spurs? What do you think would be the lineups? I'm going to be honest with you. I think it's going to look exactly. exactly like next year. They retained Isaiah

Hartenstein. You still have Jay Will, you still have Chet Holmgren. That's your front line. I don't think a day Mara is going to be more than just a regular season guy who pops in when guys are missing time. You know, we could see Bennett Sturts with the loss of Isaiah Joe and Aaron Wiggins. We could see him crack into the

perimeter rotation. And I think that OKC in general is favoring shooting a little bit more and being a little less dependent on just defensive-minded players, understanding how they need to space out a team like San Antonio. like it just doesn't matter how good you are defensively in the regular season if you can't score against Victor Wemian Yama. So I think that's a big part of why they're kind of exploring

more shooting talent on the perimeter. But Ademara is not going to bump one of those three centers from the rotation. For all intents and purposes, next year's game. If, if, if, okay, C and San Antonio run into each other in a series, will we see some Tobias Harris? Yeah. Will we see, you know, uh, you know, maybe some Bennett Sturts or more J. and AJ Mitchell, sure. But other than that, it's going to look exactly like last year, guys. It's going to be a rematch. Those teams are basically more or less running it back

in terms of their core rotation talent. Next question. Shout out to DNVR where I first saw you there. What roles could you see Nas Reid filling in Charlotte? I could see him taking a larger, unexpected role. Totally agree. I think he's going to have a lot of jump shooting opportunities in the flow of just how much that team can space teams out and just having a reliable catch-and-shoot guy at the four.

but Nas is like a legit matchup attacking forward. He's got some real ball skill attacking matchups. And so when Charlotte runs into switching teams, and that was a problem for them at various points last year. When Charlotte runs into switching teams, Nas Reid is a legitimate switch beater, which I think is a real asset. All right, three more.

I know you'll be doing your player rankings at some point. It's something I look forward to every year. I was wondering if you would ever do a ranking of your all-time favorite players. For me, those two lists vary drastically. Thanks for all the great content. I don't have time to watch many games so I could catch every episode

to keep up with it all. Thank you so much for supporting the show. So this is an interesting question. LeBron, obviously my favorite player, he's the one player that I like have like an actual real rooting interest in in terms of like the way you think of like a traditional fan. I've told the story of the show before.

I won't tell it in full right now, but LeBron was the guy that got me to fall in love with basketball. I grew up in a baseball football family and I just randomly turned on the TV and saw LeBron playing in the Eastern Conference. semis in 2006. And that was what kind of got me into basketball. So like LeBron is always going to have like, I'm going to have like a little bit of that like young, youthful, emotional fan rooting interest there. And when LeBron retires, that will fade. But like I have a lot of players that I've really

grown to like as an adult basketball fan. Steph Curry is like my favorite natural became a fan as an adult type of basketball player. Probably my second favorite player of all time behind LeBron. It's probably the biggest reason why LeBron going to Golden State doesn't bother me because I just really like Steph. I really like LeBron and I just want to see them play together. I think it would be a blast. But there are a lot of players over the years that I've really liked. I wore number 15 in college because I was a big fan of Carmelo Anthony in his high post game specifically. And if you watch any of my college tape, it's a lot of like face up, jab step kind of midpost stuff. I did a lot of that kind of shit just because I was such a big fan of Carmelo Anthony.

Anthony Edwards is a modern player that I've been a huge fan of. Kobe Bryant was a player that I became a much bigger fan of after he retired. Really after he came back from his Achilles, I just like had such an appreciation for the comeback. And you know how it is when you're a young fan. When you're a really young fan, you have your guy that you love and then you hate everybody that they compare him to. So that's why I didn't like Kobe. I didn't like Tim Duncan. I didn't like Steph. I didn't like KD when I was like young. But as I got older and I really, realize that, you know, actually I just, I'm a basketball fan and I love all these dudes. I became a huge KD fan. I became a huge Kauai fan. I became a huge Kobe Bryant fan. Like,

Kobe, you know, I have a similar frame. I have long arms and I'm six six. So like I play a lot of, you know, high post, mid post stuff and practiced a bunch of footwork that Kobe did just because I wanted to look like him because I'm a fan. And I just want to, uh, you know, it's just, I just wanted, I just grew to love and appreciate all these basketball players for different reasons. And, you know, I think that one of the most fun parts about being a basketball player is you can kind of pick and choose little pieces from everybody's game and you can practice it and you can add it to your game. And that's kind of what I think is fun when you watch any young up-and-coming NBA player is they usually just look like kind of a collection of a bunch of previous

players that came before them because you can tell they watched those guys and they became fans of their games for various reasons, and they kind of implemented those things into their game. But yeah, like, the truth of the matter is, is I, as an NBA fan, there are very few players that, like, I just don't like. I, for the most part, end up finding things that I like about everybody's game, just because I find their skill level so impressive. Two more. This is beside the point of the pod, but why aren't the Knicks considered first-tier contenders? They just set a million records and won the title. They went 16 and 3 in the playoffs. They were so dominant that they set records that apply to the regular season as well. They should also improve next season since

they can build off some of the offensive looks they stumbled upon in the playoffs. People criticize how easy their path was, but if you look at at the seating they had to beat, it's basically the same as previous champions. Definitely easier than the Celtics when you factor in injuries. Even though you could say the Spurs were a good matchup, putting the Knicks in that tier would just form a rock scissors paper with the spurs okayc and the nix so uh the big difference between the nicks and a real top tier contenders the regular season like how many of you guys throughout the season talked shit in the comments about how bad the lakers were for various reasons no one ever thought the lakers were a top tier contender i at best in march when they were fully healthy thought of them as a second

tier contender the nicks and the lakers won the same amount of regular season games last year yes, did the Knicks face a relatively easy postseason run? Yes, until the finals, and their finals opponent was a team that I thought they matched up really well with. That's true. But yeah, Boston, easy playoff run for the most part. OKC, for the most part, easy fortunate playoff run when it comes to injuries. Denver, relatively easy playoff run. You go down the line that most of these champions recently have had relatively easy playoff runs. The difference is, is like Boston won 64 games. OKC one, I can't even remember how many games,

but it was in the 60s. Like the difference between a top tier contender and a second tier contender is a top tier contender from day one of the regular season through the time that they hoist the trophy looks like a top tier contender. To me, the Knicks kind of fall more in line with like a golden state where they were more dominant

in the post season, but again, a big part of that had to do with their, their opponents that they faced in the Eastern Conference, they're more dominant in the postseason, but during the majority of the season, they just looked like a second tier contender. I think that's the main difference. I think if you want to be viewed as one of the great champions in NBA history,

you need to win 60 plus games and then cruise through the playoffs. And by the way, that's kind of why that Thunder team isn't remembered as like super, super dominant. Because they were dominant in the regular season, but then they weren't dominant in the postseason. They won, but they scraped by and got, some injury luck, right? Like, it's very rare that you see a team like Boston, for example, that has 64 wins and then kicks everyone's ass in the postseason, and it's just a resounding

top-tier championship contender season. And I just didn't think the Knicks' totality of a season rose to that. Last question. Hi, Jason. How would you assess Detroit's offseason? Trajan called out adding more ball handling, shooting, and shot creation prior to free agency, and thus far, he's only really addressed shooting. The Collins and Joe moves are certainly useful, but without that second initiator, cough hero, I can't say with any confidence we've improved. The best way I've heard it described is that Cade's role will be easier given the additional shooting and play finishing, but ultimately the usage will remain unsustainably high as the only guy that can break down a set defense. Curious to hear your thoughts, how we could proceed moving towards

this free agency. Thanks as always for your content. So I've been actually pretty happy with the Detroit off season in the sense that I really do like Isaiah Joe. I've been telling you guys, John Collins was my favorite power forward that was available not named LeBron. So they got my favorite power forward. Isaiah Joe, I think is just a really good player. I think you guys are going to be impressed by him defensively as well. There's a lot that I really like there. To me, the one thing I would say about the ball handling piece is I don't mind them waiting

as long as they eventually do something this season before the deadline, the trade deadline in February. Because, like, frankly, do I think Tyler Hero would help the pistons? Yeah. But do I think Tyler Hero is the guy that elevates them top-tier championship contender? No. So maybe they're holding out for a Devin Booker. Maybe they're holding out for a Kyrie Irving. Maybe they're holding out for a higher-level player at that spot.

For instance, the reporting is that they put together a real offer for Austin Reeves. I'm on board with that. I'm a huge Austin fan. Austin, I think, is a much better player than Tyler Hero. I think he'd be the kind of player that could actually elevate Detroit to another level. So, like, to me, it's them kind of moving on the margins with savvy moves, but waiting to pounce on the right guard is the move. And from all indications, guys like Booker, Kyrie, they're not available yet. So, like, as long as they eventually do something, I'm on board.

I'd rather have them wait and do something more splashy before this deadline than them take a move on Tyler Hero right now and then not be good enough to win the title next season. All right, guys, that's all I have for today. As always, I sincerely appreciate you guys for supporting us and supporting the show. Joy is essential and it's also elusive. But now there's a new and exciting way to start your journey toward a more joyful existence. Joy 101. It's a new podcast hosted by me, Hoda Kotby.

If you're craving inspiration to maximize your joy, tune into these candid, uplifting, and moving on-air chats. Open your free IHeart Radio app. Search Joy 101. and listen now. Joy 101 with Hoda Kotfi is presented by CVS. I'm Jake Brennan, and on the Disgraceland podcast, I explore the wild lives of rock stars

and unbelievable true crime stories from music history. These are the stories you haven't heard, the kind you'll end up telling someone else. Like the time Paul McCartney spent in a notorious prison or the bizarre crime Lady Gaga is accused of or that time Blondie's day, Debbie Harry escaped Ted Bunny. Listen to Disgraceland on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

What's up, fam, it's sports journalist Ari Chambers. Hey, what's up, y'all? It's your girl, Sam J. And we're the hosts of everyone watches women's sports, a new podcast from together. We're breaking down the biggest headlines, the viral moments, and the stories everyone's talking about across women's sports. From game-changing performances to culture-shifting conversations, we'll give you our takes, our debates, and a few laughs along the way.

everyone watches women's sports. Listen to everyone watches women's sports. On the IHeart Radio app. Apple Podcast or wherever you get your podcast. My first guest is Paris Hilton. Shaquita. Luke and Yerrin. Have surprises.

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