The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Hoops Tonight - NBA Power Rankings + Warriors & Clippers West favorites? Will Kevin Durant, Kyrie & Nets drama continue?

Episode Date: November 18, 2022

First, Jason Timpf breaks down his top 10 teams in the NBA in his latest power rankings featuring Luka Doncic's Dallas Mavericks, Ja Morant's Memphis Grizzlies, and a battle for the top spot between Giannis Antetokounmpo and the Milwaukee Bucks vs. Jayson Tatum and the Boston Celtics. Then, Jason Timpf discusses whether the Warriors and Clippers should still be co-favorites to win the Western Conference despite their early struggles. Will Steph Curry and Kawhi Leonard have their squads ready for the NBA Playoffs. Later, Jason debates if the Nets season will get more or less ridiculous as drama mounts with Kyrie Irving and Kevin Durant, if Ime Udoka's impact on the Celtics was overrated, and whether Shai Gilegeous-Alexander is a top 10 player in the league following his hot start for the Thunder. #volume #Herd #ColinCowherdSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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And don't forget, if you're watching on YouTube or on our podcast feed, that Amp is the very first place that you guys can get our live breakdowns like this. So you guys know the drill. We're going to remember, I'm going to mention a lot today things along the lines of in the last two weeks.

or since our last list or in the last chunk of games. And the main reason why is I don't want to be just a standard power rankings list that primarily focuses on the postseason. For starters, I just want to do something different. And then secondly, I just don't really change my opinion that much based on regular season basketball unless I see something super drastic. Like, for instance, with the Warriors, yeah, it's been a rough start. I still think they're a top-tier contender.

If I was doing a playoff power rankings, they'd probably still be in my top three right now. They're not even on the list this week. So the way that these power rankings lists are going to work is I really want to take it as an opportunity to focus on who's playing well right now, just to kind of help us keep things interesting during the regular season. So here are the teams that dropped off the list from last week. First is the Warriors. I had them up at 10 two weeks ago based on respect as the defending champs and their starting lineup was still playing. playing really well. And then they went three and four since that list. They are seventh in

offense during that span, but defense continues to be their issue. Their 16th over that span. And I talked last night about how it's not just the bench. It's the starters that are having issues too. That starting lineup of Steph Curry, Clay Thompson, Andrew Wiggins, Draymond Green, and Kavanaugh-Lunee. Over the course of the first six games, that grouping had a defensive rating of 103. And since that East Coast road trip, their last seven games, they have a defensive rating of 110. So they just, you know, we can talk about the bench all we want. We could talk about Clay Thompson missing shots.

We can talk about Jordan and Pool missing shots. The core five guys are also not defending the way they did to start the season. The Chicago Bulls, I had them at nine after their five and four start. They were defending really well. Well, the bottom has fallen out of their defense. Their 25th in defense over the last two weeks, and they dropped five out of their last six games. The Toronto Raptors, their four and four in the last two weeks.

I was concerned about their inability to score and defend in the half. half court, if you guys remember, like, they were third in offense, but, and they were third in offense and eighth in defense, but if you looked at cleaning the glass and looked at their half court numbers, they weren't good at all. Well, it seems like other teams have figured that out. They were third in offense the first two weeks, 17th in offense the last two weeks. Eighth in defense the first two weeks, 18th in defense the last two weeks. They were fourth in net rating the first two weeks. They were 22nd in net rating the last two weeks. They did get a nice little win at home last night over the heat. O.G. Annanobie was awesome on both ends of

floor. So this is where I enjoy this particular structure. We might never talk about a team like the Indiana Pacers over the course of the season, but with this type of structure and power rankings, we get to talk about them this week. At number 10, I have the Indiana Pacers. They were four and one since our last list. They've won six out of eight overall, pushing them up over 500. They are now seven and six on the season. They beat the Raptors. They beat the Pelicans. They beat the heat and the nets in that span. They're also a fourth in defense since our last list, anchored by Miles Turner, who has been fantastic. He had 20 and 10 with three blocks last night in a win over the Hornets. One of the revelations here in the early part of the season has been Benedict Mathurin.

You know, and I liked him at Arizona. Remember, I'm from Tucson, so I follow the Wildcats closely. And, you know, there were a lot of things I liked. He was an obvious NBA athlete. He already was pretty built into his grown man body. And he was really competitive. You could see that fire in him, which, you know, manifested in his work ethic and things along those lines. So I liked him as a prospect, but my main concern was his jump shot. I thought his form was a little funky. It's got a hitch in it. It's kind of off to the side of his head.

But he's shooting 45% on pull-up jumpers this year, including 52% on pull-up threes. I remember when I started coaching high school basketball. I coach with a really good coach here in Tucson as one of his assistants, obviously, because my availability in the evenings is tough, so I primarily hope in the morning, help in the mornings with like skill development and stuff. And our head coach, you played professionally in Italy for like seven years. He was point guard just a basketball genius. And one of the things he told me was like, don't worry so much about form,

especially with young players because it's just going to get in their heads. Focus on things that are more controllable, like their base, making sure they get good lift every time, making sure they ditch unnecessary movement and things along those lines. And we could talk about Benedict Nathrin's release all we want, but he's always had a really good base to get, great lift. There's not a ton of wasted movement, and that's why he's knocking down shots right now. So a fun little stretch of basketball from the Indiana Pacers, and both Buddy Heald and Miles Turner

look excellent. I still remain shocked that the Lakers didn't see those guys as people that would give LeBron and Anthony Davis a real fighting chance. Number nine, the Dallas Mavericks. They are four and three since our last list. They did drop a game without Luca Donchich last night. They started the year great on offense and poorly on defense, and it's been the exact opposite sense. since our last power rankings, they're 28th in offense and fifth in defense. I watched the Clippers game yesterday from, I believe it was Monday night. It might have been Sunday. Dallas jumped out to a huge lead.

Then, you know, the Clippers methodically worked their way back in by playing good defense, forcing Luca and a bunch of misses getting out on the other end and scoring. John Wall had a really nice game, getting to the basket, knocking down, pull up 15 footers and stuff like that. The game was tied at 93-93-late, and both teams were done. double-teaming the stars. So the Mavericks were double-teaming Paul George, and the Clippers were double-teaming Luca Donchitz. But in this four possession sequence, the Clippers went down, they double-team Paul George, he turned it over. Then the Mavericks went down, they double-team

Paul George, he turned it over. Then the mavericks went down, and they double-team Luca Donchich, he made the right play. Dwight Powell on the short roll, hit Reggie Bullock on the left wing, he hit another big shot and the game was over. So it was kind of an interesting game back and where Luca just made the right plays at the end of the game and PG turned it over twice. It's also good to see Reggie Bullock finally get going, hitting those massive threes. Christian Wood is also averaging 20 points per game in their last three, and they're toning back Luca's usage a bit. It's only 36% since our last list when it was up over 41% to start the season. All right, number eight, the Memphis Grizzlies. They are four and three since our last list, 24.

first in offense and third in defense. I wanted to talk about Desmond Bain for a second. He heard his big toe, so he's going to be out for a few weeks. But he's having a fantastic season fueled by his improvements as a shot creator. If you guys remember, I always really like Desmond Bain's spot-up shooting and a little bit of his relocation shooting. Some of that stuff's off the dribble, but not too much, more mostly attacking closeouts, right? And I love his competitiveness. He competes on the defensive end as well. Lots to love about Desmond Bain. But I've never thought he's a little too upright and he doesn't have a great, first step. And so, and he doesn't handle the ball super well. So I was concerned about his

shot creation. Well, he's put a ton of work over the course of the offseason. I was listening to a Grizzly's broadcast the other day and they were talking about this. He, um, relentlessly focused on his off-the-dribble shooting and just his ball handling in general. Well, look at this. He's 46% on seven pull-up jumpers per game, including 47% from three. And he's getting into the restricted area to attempt shots four point three times per game, up from 2.7. last year. So he's just getting to the basket a lot more, although he is missing some layups right now. Memphis desperately needed a second legit shot creator. If Desmond Bain becomes that, that's huge for them. Number seven, the New Orleans Pelicans. They're five and three since our last

list, wins over Chicago twice. They beat Memphis. They also beat the Warriors. Ninth in offense and 10th in defense since our last list. Really balanced attack. They got six guys averaging double figures in this stretch. They've also been really good in crunch time. Closing games. They're three in one in games that involved crunch time with a 127 offensive rating and a 95 defensive rating when the game is within five with less than five minutes left. The Sacramento Kings at number six, they are five and one since our last list, seven and two since their 0 and four start. They're second in offense and 19th in defense over the last two weeks.

Deerrin Fox's improvement as a jump shooter is one of the main things that is driving this resurgence from the Kings. Last year he shot 34% on catch-and-shoot jumpers. This year he's shooting 50% on catch-and-shoot jumpers. Obviously a big deal, especially with Demona-Sabonis on the floor and the attention that he commands around the basket. DeMontas has also been fantastic over the course the last couple of weeks. And then Deeran Fox is up to 42% on 8.4 pull-up jump shots per game,

which is really solid. He's been going to that pull-up too a lot at the end of games, and it's been going in for him. All right, number five, the Phoenix Suns. they are three and four since our last list, but they've been decimated by injuries. CP3 has a heel issue. Cam Johnson tore his meniscus. Obviously, Jay Crowder has been out the entire season because he demanded a trade. So they're just a little thin right now. But they're still 13th in offense and 14th in defense over this stretch. And manufacturing some wins, including an impressive win last night against the Golden State Warriors. I was really impressed by Devin Booker last night, yet again, passing the basketball. That's been something that I've been on all season.

I think it's been the biggest driver of his success as he's been rising up the league over the course of the last couple of seasons. And then campaign is doing a really nice job filling in for Chris Paul. He's averaging 19 points and six assists. He gets a ton of dribble penetration. Last night I was talking about how he's like the fastball to Chris Paul's change up. You know, Chris Paul methodically works in the lane and tries to bait defenders into getting out of position so that he can make passes to advantage situations. Campaign, it's a lot more straightforward than that. He's just getting downhill and drawing help, kicking out.

Everything with Phoenix is about getting to that backside, so you can have guys like Damien Lee and McAilbridge is making plays because they're really talented, and when you give them advantages, they're going to score. And Damien Lee, for instance, is shooting 17 for 30 from three since our last list. Number four, the Portland Trailblazers. They're five and two since our last power rankings with wins over the Pels, the heat, and the suns.

They're 18th in offense and 12th in defense. They're doing it in crunch time. They've won three games in crunch time during the span. As a team, they're shooting 56% from the field and 64% from three in clutch situations over the last two weeks. Jeremy Grant is playing incredibly well in this span, despite some injuries, you know, because Dame's been in and out of the lineup with that calf issue. He's averaging 27, 6 and 3 in this 5-2 stretch on 56% shooting from the field and 60% from 3. you know, I was kind of intrigued by Jeremy Grant a lot over the last couple years.

I wanted the Lakers to get him when I was covering the Lakers. You know, when he went to Detroit, from Denver, for the same amount of money that Denver offered him, he wanted to be a lead ball creator, right? So he goes to Detroit and he has a pretty productive season. I think he averaged somewhere around 24 points per game and he was relatively efficient. Next year he was kind of injury plagued, right? But what you're seeing is, you know, when someone goes that route, transitioning from off ball to on ball type of creation,

there's an adjustment period. And then there's like a comfortability that builds over time. And what you're seeing is a player that is only in his third season, really in this type of role. And he's thriving in it now because he's getting a lot more reps. He's a lot more comfortable. You're seeing development as a pull-up jump shooter. His handle looks great.

There was that game against the Pels that we covered, I think, last week, where he was hitting pull-up jump shots to get the defender to come up on him and then using counter moves to get to the rim and make him big plays to lead his team to a win without Damien Lillard or Yusuf Nerkich on the floor. So a really, really nice pickup for Portland and, hey, they're a top four team here early in the season. Number three, the Denver Nuggets. They're five and two since our last list, and one of those two losses was without Nicola Yolkich. This has been a weaker stretch of their schedule, though, just for a little bit of context. The only really good team they played during this fan was Boston, and they did get rolled in that game.

But they're making some progress on defense. They're up to 13th in the league in defense over their last seven games. And then Jamal Murray, just looking a little bit more like himself every single day. Hit some big shots last night against the Knicks. He's up to 19 points per game on 53% true shooting in his last seven games, and 41% on 10 pull-up jumpers per game. I'd like to see that closer to 45%. but once he gets there, that's one we'll really know that Jamal Murray is back to what he used to be

because he's one of the best pull-up jump shooters in the league. Bones Highland, after a rough start to the season, is also starting to get going. He made three massive threes in the late third quarter and early fourth quarter against the Knicks last night. He had one to start the fourth quarter where he got an and one falling forward. It was one of the most bizarre, you know, and-one threes that I've ever seen. That gave them a big lead. I think they went up like 88, 80, but they ended up falling apart just without Yokic. they just don't have the interior presence that they need,

especially against a Knicks team that has a good amount of interior size. Bones Island is shooting 55% on five pull-up threes per game since our last list. All right, number two, the Milwaukee Bucks. They are four and three since our last list, but still just a half game back of the best record in the entire league. And injuries are really the driver of this current little somewhat less impressive stretch. Janus missed three games. He had a foot- ankle issue.

He's also only averaging 24 points on 39% shooting in the four games that he did play. So he's obviously a little banged up right now. Now Drew Holiday is out with an ankle issue. So they went into last night's game down three starters. And with one of their starters, not quite at 100% yet. Bobby Portis was starting. Javon Carter started, who's been really good. And then Marjohn Beauchamp, I hope I'm pronouncing that correctly.

He's a rookie, and he had a little bit of a rough shooting night last night. But he shows a lot of flashes defensively, and he's got a good frame. they're still just finding a way to win games. How is that? Because they defend. They're sixth in defense since our last list, despite being down all of those players. And Brooke Lopez is one of the early season favorites for defensive player the year this year. He made seven threes and blocked three shots last night in that win against Cleveland.

And so despite all that bad luck, despite Janus being hurt and out of the lineup a little bit, despite Drew being out, despite Pat Conantin being out, despite Chris Middleton being out, despite all of that, they went four and three. because that's what teams with championship aspirations do. They have a real identity that they can lean on when there's lineup turmoil. There is a large chasm for me between the top two teams, Boston and Milwaukee, and the rest of the league right now. I expect some other teams to join that level over the course of the season,

but right now, Boston and Milwaukee look like they're in a class of their own. Number one, the Boston Celtics. They had a defensive clinic versus Atlanta last night to bring them to 8-0 since our last list. They are first in offense since our last list and first in offense for the season with a comfortable margin. They're up to 11th in defense over their last eight games, driven in large part because of their really good defensive performance last night against Atlanta. Jason Tatum and Jalen Brown are still killing it. They're averaging 56, 13, and 8 in the last two weeks. And then I wanted to talk about Marcus Smart for a second because, you know, I've been a little, as good as Jason Tatum has been offensively,

I was a little disappointed because he kind of stopped being the playmaker that he was towards the end of the year last year. Now, I wanted him to do that because he wasn't a great isolation player, and he wasn't getting to the basket and finishing well enough. And he needed to improve more in those areas, and he was already showing some promise as a playmaker. So I thought it made more sense for him to take that role and for Jalen Brown to kind of be your point him and shoot him type of score. Well, as Tatum has kind of gone into this season,

he's been much better isolating, much better getting to the rim, much better scoring efficiently. so it's kind of worked out that he let go of some of that playmaking rope. And the guy who's slotted into that role is Marcus Smart. He's been, I want to say he's averaging a career high in assists right now. He's averaging like eight or nine assists per game since our last power rankings. And he is taking on that specific role of getting dribble penetration, starting the advantage creation process for Boston that they do such a good job of extending

because they have so many good players in Grant Williams and Jalen Brown and Jason Tatum and and, you know, Malcolm Brogden on the back end. Al Horford, you know, spotting up in the corners, whatever it is. They just have so many guys that can expand the advantage that they just need that guy to get that initial dribble penetration and kick out. And right now, Marcus Smart is the guy that's filling that role. And then lastly, Grant Williams, he's 50% on four threes per game and has been excellent defensively in the last. couple of weeks. You know, like I said last night, he bet on himself turning down that extension to try to get more. And he's been so good to start the season that he's probably going to get it. And then Luke Cornett has done a really nice job filling in for Rock. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way,

the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care which I'm saying.

Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated.

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Hey, this is Robert from the Stuff to Blow Your Mind podcast. Joe and I are both lifelong Star Wars fan, so we're celebrating May the 4th with a brand new week of fun, thought-provoking Star Wars-related episodes. Join us as we tackle science and culture topics from a gas. galaxy far, far away, such as the biology of taun tons and wampas on the ice planet hot, or the practicality and corporate business sense of the Sith rule of two. Listen to stuff to blow your mind on the iHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Everett Williams, they look like the best team in the world right now and they deserve the top

spot on our list. You might notice next to me here on the screen, my good friend, Mr. Carson. We've had no Carson for a while because we've been. waiting on a specific piece of equipment that we finally got installed so that we can functionally make this whole thing work. But dude, it is good to see you, man. How are you today? Oh, Jason, it is just a joy to be here. And I'm great. Very happy. Some great basketball going on. Hell yeah. We've got five questions from the early chunk of the season here. Really quickly, before we get started, please subscribe to the YouTube channel so you don't miss any more of our videos.

Follow me on Twitter at underscore Jason LT so you guys don't miss show announcements or any film breakdowns that we do. And if you miss one of these episodes and you can't get back to YouTube, remember you can find them wherever you get your podcast under hoops tonight. And on that note, Carson, let's get to question number one. What are you got? Question number one. Despite their struggles, the Warriors and the Clippers are still co-favorits to get out of the West, Jason. They're both plus 3.30 on Fandul to win the Western Conference. Does that make sense to you? Are they still deserving favorites?

Yes, because, well, specifically with the Warriors, I'll say yes. I don't feel nearly as optimistic about the Clippers. I mean, for starters, there's nobody else in the Western Conference that's really blowing anybody away. Like Portland's off to a good start, but then they drop a game at home to the Brooklyn Nets last night. You know, like the Nuggets, they're nine and five, but they have lost a lot of games to good teams and their defense isn't nearly where you expect it to be. So no one's really impressing in a way that would lead you to believe that the clippers or warriors are in trouble out west. Now, is there a chasm forming between them and the Bucks and Celtics? Absolutely. I think everybody would agree with that. But in the Western

Conference, I'm not overly concerned. With the Warriors, they've got a bunch of issues. Their defense has fallen off a cliff. They're 17th in the last seven games. Their starters have a 110 defensive rating during that span as well, which is not good. Clay Thompson and Jordan Pool are both struggling a bit offensively. And then their bench has trouble holding leads. They're getting outscored by 13 points per 100 possessions with Steph off the floor when they're outscoring teams by seven when Steph is on the floor, which is a 20 point swing. But everything is fixable. The starters aren't defending, but we know they can and we know they will. They were one of the best defensive units in the league to start the season and they were outstanding in the playoffs last year. So they

will again be outstanding soon. It's just a matter of commitment. Clay Thompson is shooting 27% on a wide open threes hot take here carson i think those are going to start going in eventually yes he's had some shot selection stuff but if really you want clay to be aggressive you just want him to be making shots people are really only complaining about the shots because they're not going in and then jordan pool's a young player who's occasionally going to have some cold stretches but they're going to find a way to bolster the bench they've got trades they can make um involving the young players they're going to be a buyout destination because they'll have minutes available it's a great culture you know a West Coast and a chance legitimately to win a title.

They're going to get a good buyout wing somewhere. And then they could always do things like dusting off Andre Guadala or increasing the starters minutes as we get closer to the playoffs to just make the bench less important. And then with the Clippers, like they're playing better, but they're 27th in offense in this last 10 game stretch, even when they've gone seven and three, they can't score. And then, Kauai, like, dude, Kauai was doing janky stuff like playing one. first half shift to try to limit his minutes. And he still broke down. So like what in what universe is he going to suddenly survive the rest of the season, let alone ever look like the old Kauai?

So with with the clippers, I'm a lot more pessimistic, but the Warriors issues I think are fixable. I think the Warriors are certainly in an interesting spot. And I think you've been a big advocate of make the midseason move, go out there, put all your pieces in because this is a title caliber core with an all-time great player and the future entry you get from the Moody's, the Comingas, the Wiseman's just does not compare and value to the immediacy of, hey, we can win a title right now. And I completely agree with that. I also think it is absolutely necessary because this top six is title caliber. We saw it last year. That is undeniable. I don't think anybody's really significantly regressed here. Steph looks even better. Clay is playing very poorly. But it's like

you said, I mean, for most of his career, Clay's job has been to make contested shots. And guess what? He's been inconsistent since coming back from injury, but I still think he'll shoot 37% from three. He'll be okay. But the reality is that the loss of Gary Payton the second Otto Porter Jr. Have really completely changed the outlook of this bench. And, you know, Anthony Lamb is the best bench player outside of Jordan Pool right now. And so I like Dante DiVincenzo. He has not looked like the same player he was before his injury in Milwaukee. Jamichael Green has been very mad. So I just don't think you can count on this bench rotation right now

to be good enough to really make a meaningful push in the playoffs. But they're not that far away. So I think they have to make a move, but it's not a move that's at all impossible to make, especially with the assets they have, which are decreasing in value, but I'm sure still holds some entry. Yeah, and a lot of the options, you know,

because I've had Warriors fans ask in the comments, like, hey, can you provide some options? And it's the same kind of trade targets that you're seeing elsewhere around the league. They could go the route of trying to poach a couple of the role players that are playing for the Utah Jazz, right? They could go after, you know, Yacquip Erdo and Doug McDermott from the San Antonio Spurs, giving them a legit, because like right now they're one front court injury away from the season basically being over. Like if Kevon Looney or Draymond Green goes down, they're going to have an extremely hard time winning any games. You know, I look at, you know, Miles Turner, for instance, as a guy who, you know, was playing. playing really good basketball this season.

And yes, he's been mentioned with the Lakers, but the Lakers don't seem to want him. So someone else is probably going to get him because the paces aren't going to ride this out. Yeah, they're over 500 now, but they're eventually going to pull the plug on all of this. And they're going to, you know, take a first round pick or something along those lines.

And you might be able to get him from one of those young players if your Golden State, especially since I'm sure Indiana would like to get a good wing in there alongside their new backcourt. So, you know, there's options out there. They just have a bunch of different directions they can go. If Anthony Lamb pans out, which he's been playing really well, shooting the ball well, guarding multiple positions. If Moses Moody gets it together, they dust off Andreguodala.

They increase minutes for the starters. They might not need to do anything. But when the time comes in February, they'll have the flexibility with a bunch of different ways that they can go. And so, I mean, that's why, like, of all the teams to be concerned about, I just wouldn't be. Like it's not, like you said, Steph looks better than ever. there's the best lineup for the warriors just isn't guarding the way they used to and it's it's only

been like four months it's not like they've lost that capability they're just this is classic you know title defense malaise right the clippers are also interesting to me because they have been so great defensively number two and defensive rating on the year and that is probably i would say actually certainly the more reliable predictor of if you're looking at which end of the floor which can we trust more. Certainly, it's the defense compared to the offense without Kauai because so much of what the Clippers do is predicated on the isolation, the drive and kick, trusting their perimeter guys to go out there and get buckets, like their third in isolation percentage, their 29th in passes made, which is just how they've always played basketball. But when Reggie Jackson has not been great,

when Norman Powell has not been great, when John Wall hasn't been great, and when you don't have Kauai, that's basically their entire offensive identity kind of thrown out the window. So, I'm not overly confident that Kauai is going to be himself or healthy. We just don't know. So I think right now I would certainly put the Sons and the Nuggets right in that same tier. I think all these teams are flawed. I think there's uncertainty with all of them, and I don't think any of them compare to the top tier of teams out east.

I certainly agree on that. Yeah, I put the Nuggets as the one team that I would put as a legitimate Western Conference threat. They're nine and four when Yokic plays, and that was despite at the start of the season, Jamal Murray still kind of working his way back. And Bones Highland did not shoot well to start the season. But Jamal looks a little bit more and more like himself, each and every game that he plays. Bones Highland is shaking off that rough start. Now he's making his shots again in this recent stretch from the Nuggets.

He's shooting like 55% on pull of threes or something insane like that. Their defense is still just terrible. But we know that they're capable of playing. better than they have. They're never going to be a top five defense, but they should be closer to 15, and I think they're 23rd right now. So they've just got a bunch of different ways that they can improve. And then to put it simply, the clippers and the Warriors, that Yokic matchup is just really tough for them. You know, the Warriors have beaten the nuggets in the playoffs with the injuries that they've sustained, but they've suffered some losses to the fully healthy version of the

nuggets during the regular season because it's just a different matchup for them physically. And then obviously we've seen what happens when Yokic comes into contact with the clippers. So I'd put the Nuggets as my biggest threat to those two teams. I would agree with you there. Sons have looked good, but I think their depth is a bit of an issue. And the Nuggets have the potential of being the best offense in basketball on any given night. And that gives you a pretty high ceiling. Let's flip here from some teams that have struggled, but overall, there's still a pretty high confidence level.

And I mean, certainly Vegas is still respecting them to a team that has been a complete circus this entire. year and it seems that every, not even week, every few days, there's a new obstacle thrown at them. So Jason, does the net season get more ridiculous or less ridiculous as the year goes on? You know, because the nets have so much talent on paper, there's always the chance that it could improve, you know, like if what we saw from Ben Simmons last night is the way he plays the rest of the season, that's encouraging. KD. plays like an MVP. Kyrie Irving comes back. They defend the way they defended. You know, getting what you're getting from you don't want Nabi, for instance, who by the way did a really nice job defending Damien Lillard on switches.

He's just super tall and super long and can knock down threes. And he's actually a pretty decent athlete, right? Like, you know, there's a bunch of good there. But as I'm putting that all together, it kind of feels like one of those like same game parlayers where I make a $2 bet that has like a $1,700 pay. out like yeah it could all go that way and we could all get rich or the far more likely scenario is that one or two of those things go wrong which leads to the domino effect of everybody else going off the rails and then it goes south you know like the we've just we've just seen this movie before they can play good basketball in the right matchups two or three games in a row like last night that was an impressive win they defended damia lillard extremely well

they um down the stretch of that game kind of strangled the pace got better shots and it looks good, but it's a lot of its matchup dependent. You know, they struggle against the Kings because they've got a couple front court players that are more physical, right? You know, and then Portland, not so much. And then, you know, there's also the reality of the Celtics Bucks matchups. Like, no matter what the idealized version of this Nets team is, specifically Boston and Milwaukee are equipped to not just beat the Nets,

but kind of snatch their heart with the way that they play on both ends of the floor. like you know what jos i never stops believe it and he's like the the the ex the ex that's still or the guy who's still in love with his ex and no matter how often she stabs him in the back he just keeps going back you know it's one of those types of deals but my guess is it gets more ridiculous but there's it's always on the table that karee comes back ben simmons turns into winged jrameh david plays like an MVP set curry does his thing joe harris makes a bunch of threes like he did you get a couple of key role player performances yeah there's it's it's it's there is a ceiling here, but that same ceiling has existed all season for various reasons,

and it just continues to go up and down the way that it has. I don't know how much more ridiculous things can get, but I also wouldn't really predict them to get less ridiculous. And I agree that last night was outside of that Knicks game, maybe their best all-around effort of the year. I still think Portland, I mean, clearly just felt to me like a more talented team. it was kind of an issue of shot making for them in spots, but the nets were locked in defensively, like you said,

Wadenaabe was great. Joe Harris was finally making shots. But it still just feels far too ambitious to bet on everything consistently coming together and jelling, especially when you reintroduce Kyrie, even though obviously he elevates your offensive ceiling. It's just like the defense was abysmal when he was out there. We have no reason to have any sort of confidence in the chemistry, in the cohesion of this team.

I mean, he finally scored 15 points and, you know, he attacked a couple times downhill and out of the post. But he's just so clearly not the same athlete. He's not the same defensively. I think he's still in his head. I mean, he only took six shots. A couple of them were like, one was a lob off inbound. He made every shot and took six. Exactly.

It's like he is just so, so far from what he was, what we could have ever expected him to be. So I think we should just buckle in and not. invest in any net's success and invest in a lot more hijinks and mayhem because I really, I don't see this team winning a playoff series. It's like to be fully healthy and committed and together and like each other and play both ends against a really good top tier out east, I just think, no way. Well, that's the key because bad things happen to every basketball team. That's a dirty little secret. There's two different kinds of teams out there. There's the teams that complain as the bad things happen as they spiral out of control.

And then the teams that like you're, you just look and it's like, oh, the bucks won again last night. And whoa, two starters were out and Janus was six for 17. Like what in the world? Like you look at it and it's like like Janus messed up his foot and is, has been like below 40% from the field in his last four games,

has missed three of the last seven games and Drew Holliday's out with an ankle issue. Pat Connitton's out. Chris Milton's out. And they're just winning games because they're just in the locker room. There's such a buy-in down the roster that every night you're getting a consistent product. And yet even in the downsides like this past two-week stretch, all that went wrong for the bucks. And they went four and three, you know, and they beat a Cavs team the other day that was, you know, obviously down Jared Allen, but had everybody else available.

So like it's just it's just the difference between the top and the bottom. Like the Nets have demonstrated that a little bit of adversity kind of causes them to fracture, you know, and that sort of thing isn't going to suddenly change in this case. Yeah, I completely agree. And before the Nets started destroying themselves and embarrassing themselves, they were destroyed and embarrassed by the Boston Celtics in the playoffs last year, who have been really exceptional this year. They're 12 and 3.

They're on pace to have the best offense in basketball history. And obviously, they've done this all without e-mail. O'Doka. So, Jason, do you think that his impact on the Celtics was overrated? Not necessarily, but I do think that in general when we see things like this, we don't give enough credit to the other party. So for instance, like, IMA Udoca is a tough guy. And he was brought in to help specifically with toughness with a core of players in Marcus Smart, Jason Tatum, and Jaylon Brown, who had struggled a little bit with toughness over the course of the years, right?

And yes, you doca helped with that transition that led to that finals run last year, but you also got to give those guys credit for changing. To me, it reminds me of, like, Kobe and Pau Gassol. You know, the narrative is like Kobe changed Pau Gassal. And like, I don't doubt that Kobe's competitiveness and toughness had an impact on him. But give Paugasol some credit for just toughening up as he got into late round playoff series consistently. You know, a lot of times it's the pain and suffering of the loss that helps leave. to that toughness as well. And again, so it's, it's kind of that kind of thing. Like, I give a good chunk of the credit to Kobe and I give a good chunk of the credit to Powell. In this case, what did I say

all summer after the EMA Udoca thing came down? I was like, yes, EMEA helped with this. But I think the change has already been made by the core players and they will continue to exhibit that toughness now that email Udoca is gone. And that's exactly what has happened. And, you know, give those guys credit. They just, you know, Jason Tatum and Jalen Brown came out three, four months. months after an embarrassing loss in the finals, and they both look like better players than they were last year. That's a credit to them. Jason Tatum was a bad isolation player last year. This year, he's been a good isolation player. He's increased his efficiency in a bunch of very important areas. He was a bad mid-range score last year. This year he's a good mid-range score. You know,

like you're just seeing improvement from those guys. Give them credit. Jason Tatum and Jalen Brown, too, in key moments of this season, even though the team defense hasn't been as good as you'd hope, they've locked in and they're still two of the best perimeter defenders in the entire league. And then, dude, Mark is smart. What he's done for them offensively as a dribble creator, just getting into the gaps of the defense and creating that initial advantage is super impressive. He's one of the best pick and roll ball handlers in the league this year.

Yeah, I think you put it very well. My thought is kind of what Udoca did last year was extremely important and extremely impressive. but I also thought this year bringing in Joe Missoula, who has been there, it's a lot easier to sustain that defensive culture once it's been established, those offensive principles once they've been established. It's like how Luke Walton could come in and coach the Warriors to being 39 and 4 because they had already done the handiwork behind Steve Kerr in establishing those habits, those principles.

And then, of course, it's difficult to sustain those things, but then it's a matter of the commitment by the players. they're aware of what they need to do. And clearly the Celtics players are committed and continuing to improve. So I don't really think that that'll ever come back to bite them. Do you think right now, if you had to pick between the top teams out east, are the Celtics the team that you would trust the most to win at all? No, I still give an edge to the bucks.

But I do think that the Celtics have gained ground in a sense compared to where you might have felt about those two teams after their Eastern Conference semifinal last year. But yeah, I wanted to give one last story to just kind of like hammer this point home. When I was in junior college, when I was playing up in Utah, I had a coach. His name was Carter Row. Now he coaches at Arizona Western,

which is in a conference here in Arizona. And like he was one of the guys who really targeted my lack of toughness when I was a young basketball player. And I remember like vividly like ice cold, Utah mornings, doing planks on the soccer, field where the grass is frozen and I'm like quitting on the drill and stuff and he's like down just screaming in my face telling me I'm not tough and stuff like that and like he worked on me really hard

over the course of that season and it's like he hasn't been my coach since that season for obvious reasons but his impact has lingered with me and a lot of the things that changed about me as a player that year are still a part of my basketball identity to this day and that's kind of like the way that a coach can impact any basketball player and so that's kind of the way I see the UdoC thing. He came in. He worked with those guys for a year. He targeted some specific weaknesses for them in terms of mental toughness. That impact is there even now that he's gone. And now that role in your life is taken on by producer Ryan Brumley, who's yelling at you when you're down there in the cold. All right. So one of the main stories of this season,

or one of the most fun stories, I think, has been the explosion of Shea Gildes-Alexander. And you've talked about it recently. He's now at 37 plus in three straight games. He's averaging 32 on the year. Is he a top 10 player in the league now? So this is a delicate conversation because I've been doing, I've been going out of my way for this season to really focus on evaluating players based on this season. Because I have some like longstanding philosophies. Like I'm not going to put younger players over experienced players that have been there and done that in terms of the way I rank them in the grand scheme of things. You know, like for instance, I had LeBron fourth before the season. I will not adjust that in my grand scheme rankings until after the playoffs this year, right? But as we zoom in on

this season, has LeBron been a top of top four player? Absolutely not. He's been somewhere between 15 and 11, right? Like, you know, Tatum, I had him down at six. He's actually been better than that this season. in terms of just in the vacuum of this season. You know, like as we go down that list, there's kind of a difference between talking about what's going on this year versus the grand scheme of things. Has Shea Gilders-Alexander been a top 10 player in this season? Unquestionably.

Maybe even top five, right? But as I'm ranking him against the other players in the league in the grand scheme of things, I would wait until after the season. I would want, like, how am I supposed to, for instance, I had Paul George somewhere around like 11, right? in the list before the season. Why would I put SGA over Paul George, who two years ago, when Kauai went down,

dragged his team to within two wins of an NBA finals birth? Like, that's not fair, in my opinion. So just remember in general, for everybody who's listening, when I'm having these kinds of conversations and talking about these kinds of lists, if it's during the regular season, it's a different type of kind of like measuring system than what I would use outside of the season.

but he's unquestionably been a top five top 10 top five ish player this year he's a top tier rim finisher like he finishes at the rim better than just about everybody except for the the usual guys you'd expect at the top he's a top tier pull-up jump shooter he's shooting the high 40s on huge volume he's excellent in pick and roll he's 84th percentile among pick and roll ball handlers and he's a massively disruptive defender gets a ton of steals and blocks for a hundred ninety five pound guard you can't you can't argue with the results this season I think that that's very sound logic, and I'm generally pretty tentative. At least I try to be to lift people above somebody else because of a regular season or certainly only a stretch of regular season play.

But he looks like a top 10 player right now. And I think honestly, there might only be concretely like seven or so guys who I would say they're better than SGA right now. I think that you hit on it. I mean, he's a top three paint guard in the league unequivocally. He's always had that unbelievable change in pace and stuff. linkiness to his game. His paint footwork is ridiculous, the variety of finishes in there. And then now he's paired it with this elite mid-range pull-up jump shooting game where he's

51% for mid-range and everyone's terrified of SGA getting all the way downhill. And he just has this incredible ability to stop on a dime to step back and to make all those shots. And it's also just incredible that now we have a couple guards in the league, him even more so than Jop, but guys who they're both shooting well from three this year. and they have that a bit in their game, but really guards who are predicated on getting downhill, getting to the bucket, and that's their greatest strength,

and they are truly among the best players on the planet. Let me ask you this. How do you feel about the OKC approach around SGA? When they have maybe a top 10 player, when he's on the floor, they outscore opponents by four points per 100 possessions. There are 11 points per 100 possessions better with him, and yet still obviously their roster is so far away from accomplishing.

anything of significance. Is that justifiable to you at this point? Is that going to become an issue in your eyes? Like, what's your take on that? Well, I think we can make that call from this point looking forward. Because at the end of the day, we knew SGA was good. We didn't know he was this good. You know, like the way we're talking about this,

I guarantee you the front office is talking about this too. Like they're having new conversations now like, okay, it turns out we have one of the 10 best basketball players alive. What do we do about this? You know, like there's Chet Holmgren potentially coming back. They actually sneakie have a bunch of really good wings, including Lou Dord, who's one of the best defensive wings that we have in the league. Chet Holmgren and Alexey Pocoshefsky represent two really interesting stretch bigs so they can consistently play five out basketball in a way that a lot of teams can't functionally play. You know, they're, like specifically with SGA to, what you said that's so interesting.

We have a lot of guards who are excellent downhill. And then we have a lot of guards that are excellent pull-up jump shooters. What we don't have is like a guard who's both. You know, the Bradley Beals and the Devin Bookers and the Jamal Murrays of the world, they'll get in the lane and they'll make one or two shots a game, right?

Like, it could beat you to the basket if things shake up a certain way. Shea is like finishing at the rim more frequently than Ja Morant while taking in taking 11 something pull up jump shots a game and making like 47% of them like that is the thing that is kind of unheard of here is he's got the all the pull up jump shooting with all of the downhill stuff and that's what makes him so so exciting but my guess is that whatever approach the thunder had which was to absorb as many picks as possible you know develop these young wings and give SGA plenty of time to to develop his skill set while at the same time not wearing him out physically because they're resting him all the time and all this kind of stuff they were doing that now they've got to change their approach chat's coming back now they'll probably target more veteran players to surround sGA and them you know they might look to i know they signed dort to an extension they might try to piece a couple of these guys together and target a star wing out there for a couple of picks and try to go at it with, you know, Chet and some kind of star wing and SGA.

But I'm not going to be critical of OKC's front office necessarily unless we're looking at them this time next year. And SGA is putting up massive numbers on a garbage team again. I think that's when we could start having that conversation. But I mean, what were they going to do? Go all in on SGA last year when he wasn't this good, you know, like, and he was good last year. But this is different. What we're seeing right now is a whole other level. It's completely different. And you talk about blending the skill set of the pull-up jump shooting and the finishing. Just one stat that I think is remarkable on that.

The short mid-range pull-up game especially, in terms of people who are leading the league and field goals made from 10 to 14 feet, SGA's second, he's only in a tier with KD right now. Last year, he was not even in the top 25. He's over two and a half times as many makes on 58% shooting from that range. So I agree with you. He has completely taken a leap. He has still been for three years now, though, young, of course,

head and shoulders above everybody else in OKC. So it is a strange dynamic, but I agree with you. This is a different tier. Like now you're looking at Young Star to Superstar, that adjust your outlook, I'm sure. We have a guy who's also in that Young Star category, though, already, I think. And that's Paolo Boncaro, who is dealing with an injury right now, so he's missed a few games, but has been one of the most prolific rookies

that we have seen in a long time. Jason, he was your favorite guy in this draft, ended up going number one. Have you been surprised by his immediate success in the league? Absolutely. I mean, I knew he could score, but it's more just the sheer efficiency of his scoring that is so unusual for a rookie. He's averaging 1.11 points per ISO, including passes. which is 75th percentile in the league. He's averaging, this is insane, Carson.

1.41 points per post-up, including passes, which is in the 99th percentile in the league. I went back this morning and I watched every single Palo Boncaro ISO and post-up from this season. And like, okay, starting with the ISO, everything's built out of this high hesitation in his left, hand. He actually prefers to drive left because he likes to drop his right shoulder. But what's wild is there's clips in this in this set where he's going against some of the best perimeter

defenders in the league who just can't handle him when he drops that right shoulder. You know, there's not really a player like him in the league right now. We have guys who are bowling balls, but that are kind of unpolished. I kind of think like Julius Randall, right? And then we've got like, you know, Janice, which is just an alien, doesn't even really compare to anybody else in the league. And then we have a lot of really skinny wings and forwards that have some good footwork and pull up jump shooting ability and a good handle. He's really the only guy of his archetype in the league who's like giant,

like just a grown man on the basketball court as a rookie, who's got the handle to keep guys off balance. And he's always just kind of dribbling and waiting for you to lean one way. And then as soon as you lean one way, he's just punching that gap with physicality dropping his shoulder and getting to the rip. And then when you're sending extra defenders, he's making the easy reads that are there. In the post, he's going, like, what's really interesting about him in the post is he's doing it in every single conceivable way. He's balanced on which side of the floor he's attacking from. He's going over his left shoulder just about the same amount as he's going over his right shoulder.

He'll turn in face and he does like kind of this violent rip through where he brings his elbows up high. and dribbles on the right side of his body and then drops his left shoulder and then tries to go physically to the basket. He's got so much versatility there that he's unpredictable. And what's wild about it, Carson is like he's a rookie. Doesn't know, doesn't really kind of feel the game yet, doesn't really necessarily see the floor super well yet. Over time, he's just going to get better and better and better and better at this stuff. And just wait until the jumper is really polished. He's going to put on a number, another like five pounds of lean muscle. Like he'll probably be right around the same weight, but be more lean. And like this kid is going to be so damn good scoring the basketball.

Obviously there's all these other different things we've got to look at like how he develops as a pastor over the years, how competitive he is as a defensive player. What does he like just in terms of his demeanor on a night and night out basis in terms of bringing good effort and energy? There's always that kind of stuff that could be the things that derail him or prevent him from being, you know, instead of a top 10 player, he ends up being a top 30 player. Those are all the little forks in the road for him. But he is massively exceeding any potential expectations as a scorer in this league. In fact, he's already one of the best ISO and post guys that we have. He has a remarkable skill set. And in terms of just his production

historically, he's scoring the most points per game by any rookie since David Robinson in 1990. And by the way, he was 24. He was kind of cheating in the rookie category. And still an all-time great player. So I was really high on him. I think that you look at just the prospects we're getting overall. These are super evolved freaks who like didn't use to exist before. I thought he could score close to 20. This is 23 and a half. On league average efficiency as a rookie is so impressive when he is the complete focal point of the magic offense.

It is remarkable. And like he's been better in probably just about every way than we could have expected. But still as a prospect, this guy was a six, ten. 250 crazy powerful athlete with a pretty darn good handle who could look like a wing in spots with the pull-up jump shooting who could attack out of the post who could roll who could push in transition and he's even you know overachieve those expectations I think the post game's been one of the most impressive things I don't remember him demonstrating that kind of variety in college it's been really impressive and I think with the playmaking you want to see it be

more consistent but his best moments as a passer He does some pretty advanced stuff sometimes. He makes some pretty remarkable finds in the corners, the ability to sort of adapt midair and still get the ball out with velocity and accuracy. So I agree. He has to develop there, but I think he really will because the moments that you see are so tantalizing, so impressive. The guy's a freak. I was a believer in Chet over him.

I thought they were both great prospects. And Chet's going to have to do a lot to validate that opinion right now because I'd be pretty confident that Paolo is going to be. be an all-MBA guy. Yeah, I've seen him get Andrew Wiggins off the dribble and just dogwalk him to the basket. Yeah. I've seen him in the fourth quarter of a close game just bully Jason Tatum to the rim with a spin move for a basket.

Like the physical tools that he possesses are legitimate problems for people. Yeah. And not only that, it translates to the postseason specifically because we know that the bully ball stuff always translates better in the postseason, then pull up jump shooting and things along those lines because everyone loses their legs and the shot accuracy and stuff goes down. He's got good passing chemistry already with Wendell Carter Jr. Where like he'll kind of work into the lane as he's posting up and then Wendell will just kind of cut behind the basket and he'll just elevate like he's going up for a shot and then

just dump it down for an easy layup underneath the rim. He's good, man. I got to see him up close and personal when I was in Vegas. Vegas this year. And I remember sitting there thinking like, okay, Jaden Ivy was the most impressive player in the sense that like I came away from that thing being like, wow, I can't believe how good he is. I didn't expect that. And we could talk about Jaden Ivy some other day. But like, but yeah, like even in spite of that, the Palo thing just was just hitting everybody in the face in that arena because he's huge. He's just bigger than everybody. It's like he's he's kind of an archetype

of player that we haven't seen in a long time. He is an inevitable mismatch. Oh, go ahead. I was just saying you're completely right. We don't see people like him. No matter who you try to guard him with, he's a mismatch. He will overpower your wings. He will get by your fours and bigs.

He's just a monster. Yes, he is. And I'm very much looking forward to watching him. This was fun, Carson. We've got to do this more often. And we've got to get into some more of these young guys. All right, guys. That is all we have for today.

As always, we sincerely appreciate your support. We are off for the weekend. And then we're going Monday, Tuesday, next week, before we take some time off for Thanksgiving. As always, I appreciate your support, and we will see you on Monday. Another podcast from some SNL, late-night comedy guy, not quite.

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