The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Hoops Tonight - Nuggets Deep Dive: Nikola Jokic can WIN TITLE after Cam Johnson, Valanciunas, Bruce Brown additions

Episode Date: July 13, 2025

Jason is joined by Adam Mares of DNVR and the ALL NBA podcast to discuss the latest news about LeBron James before doing a deep dive into the Denver Nuggets offseason including how they’re building around Nikola Jokic, adding Cam Johnson, Jonas Valanciunas, Bruce Brown, and Tim Hardaway Jr. in the offseason, what it means for their current role players, and why they have a great chance to win the NBA title.    #Volume See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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here at the volume, happy Saturday, everybody. Hope all of you guys are having a great weekend. We are here at the Sirius XM Studios at the win in Las Vegas. Shout out to the guys from Sirius XM. They're taking great care of us. My good friend Adam,

who I got to meet in person in Denver a couple weeks ago, who I was stunned as I came over to your house for dinner and he opens the door and he's like every bit as tall as me, if not taller. And I'm like, oh my God, because we've just seen each other on Zoom calls all these times. But I appreciate you taking the time to come hang out. Adam ours does DMVR, big Nuggets guy. Also does a bunch of stuff for that company. And they're building a really cool product that covers the league on a team-specific level.

And before we talk any nuggets, Adam, there was a story this morning that came out on ESPN. There's some frustrations, some drama brewing in Los Angeles. What's your take on this whole situation with LeBron and the Lake? What a predictable mess we're in. Honestly, like this Lakers LeBron era has, it's been longer than expected in many ways just because LeBron keeps playing.

He's played there, I think, more consistently, right? More years in a row than anywhere else in his career. It was almost always going to end bad. And when the Luca trade happened, clearly the team's moving on. So there's this weirdness between what do they owe LeBron? And because he hasn't been there his whole career, it feels inevitable that they get to this place

where it's, hey, man, our future doesn't involve you. And so for us to sort of mold ourselves to fit you, you know, would slow us down for after you're gone. So part of me looks at this and says, I get what the Lakers are doing. It sucks. You'd like to be able to send a guy off after all he did. But in my opinion, this is not at all surprising. It's unfortunate for LeBron. And here he is on the other side of some of what he's been on his whole career. Putting pressure on an order to do his bidding. The Lakers are saying, hey, we're not considering you. I don't know. It's kind of funny to me. Yeah, you know, I see. multiple angles here because I

totally think it's reasonable to look at LeBron and be like, yo dude, we can't go all in on this particular season. That's too much to ask with the big picture potential this group has. We're trying to lock Luca up long term. If we go after, let's say, Andrew Wiggins, for instance, and they tried to include a first round pick there,

all of a sudden you're handicapping your ability to make a move down the line. Andrew's 30. There's some downsides there in terms of him being a depreciating asset. I think where I see a little bit more of a LeBron, like I get defensive of LeBron is the contract side of it. Because like, I don't think LeBron is expecting the Lakers to like trade Dalton and a first

for like a 33 year old win now. I don't think LeBron's that unreasonable. I think where he is frustrated is like he was sixth and MVP voting. He was second team all NBA. Even after he got hurt when he came back, he was still playing in that like, you know, 11th to 15th best player in the league type of level at that point. point in time. And I think he looks at it and he goes like James Harden just signed a new two year deal. Like, why is it that I am being like handstrong on just wanting a one plus one like he

wants? And he feels like he deserves. I think he feels like as a basketball player, he deserves a one plus one. And I kind of side with him on that. They clearly spiritually are trying to move on. I think is what it looks like. And I think the big question is just how close are they? Because you're right. LeBron is still great. I don't know if he can be great for 82 plus four rounds. That's the big question. Luca's obviously great. You're 80, 90% the way there. They do need to add a lot of depth.

Could they have done that this off season? I would say no, but I know a team that did add a lot of depth with no assets or resources this summer. So maybe it is possible. That's of course I'm referencing the Denver Nuggets. So maybe it was possible because in today's NBA, I think everybody is trying to make these like four or five year plans,

or at least that's been the status quo for the last several years. I think four or five year plans are out the window. And so the Lakers, with their decision making with LeBron, almost feels like, yeah, but we got to set ourselves up for years down the line. Maybe they'll be right about that. And maybe LeBron is just too much for you to overcome in your planning. But I look at it. I mean, I do understand what you're saying.

Is it realistic that they could have built a contender, giving them a one plus one and said, yes, but we're going to do this for two years and try to happen? Maybe, probably not. Maybe you owed it to him. It's a tough one, man. They just clearly, I think, are spiritually moved on from him. Well, and that's my thing.

I feel like if you give him a one plus one, you know, he's certainly going to be worth the money the first year as a player. like just in terms of sheer production. Like 60 games of LeBron plus the playoffs is still better than a lot of dudes who are making 50 million. 100%. Like Jalen Brown made 50 million for a team that won the championship last year. Like Carl Anthony Towns is going to make $50 million.

Like there are a lot of players around the league that LeBron is just a better basketball player then that are that provide more winning impact at that salary number. So I sympathize with him in that specific regard. However, I do think you're on to something. I think this is a bigger picture like philosophical. we want to clean slate, not just from LeBron, but from the entire era from when Jeannie Buss owned the team. We're going to behave like one of the higher spending, more sophisticated teams in the NBA. We're going to invest more in all of these specific areas where the Lakers organization was not investing the right amount of money.

And I think they're just viewing LeBron as like getting him out the door is almost just like a complete culture shift for the team moving forward. And I think he's just a little offended by that. Well, it's also power, though. It's power and it's leverage. And LeBron has always had power and leverage impressed it. One plus one is, yes, we'll continue to allow you to have that saying, hey, this is the last year. That's like you had no longer have this.

You want to be part of the team. You're part of the team this year. But going beyond this, you have no leverage or power. And whether that's the right move or not again, I just the Lakers are spiritually moving on from it. And that's what that signals to me. Okay. So before we move on to some nuggets, I'm going to put you on the spot about the Lakers

in the West. So we have this top tier, the three teams, and we're not going to put them in any particular order right now, but Oklahoma City, Houston and Denver. And then I think there's a little drop off. But we have like Golden State in this mix. We have the Lakers in this mix. There's the Clippers in this mix. San Antonio could theoretically be in this mix. But there's that group of teams.

Is there a particular team in that mix as a nuggets, as a person who covers the nuggets that you view as more dangerous to be a threat out of that tier? What's interesting about that group to me is you have two. teams, Minnesota, who's had Denver's number, you know, for the last handful of years with multiple bigs. And then look what the Clippers just did. Norman Powell had an incredible year for them. They lose him, willing to lose him, but they bolster their front court with Collins and Lopez.

And I just look at those moves and I go, that's a Denver Nuggets move. I don't know who that's for. I mean, there are there Houston's, perhaps that you're going to need that depth or even just getting through the regular season. You want to guys come in and out of the lineup. You want to have somebody there. But I look at that and I go in the playoffs and I say, okay, Zubat's guarded Yokich really well, but Yokes still overcame it, still got them through that series.

But now they have 48 minutes of at least one big, if not two. And so to me, I think the Clippers now move into that category. The only difference is the Clippers nailed this season. They were healthy. Everything to damn. They were healthy going into the playoffs. Can they do that again? I doubt it.

But if they are healthy, I would say Clippers in Minnesota, those are the two. It was also the first year of Kauai didn't look like a world beater in the postseason. because if we remember in those other years when he would get hurt, like for the few games that he'd be playing, he looked like, it's like, oh my God, he might be better than KD in the series. Like, oh my God, he might be better than this guy or that guy. He had that one game. Do you remember? What was it, like 17 and 19 or something? Yeah, the one game he didn't miss any shot. Yeah, he had the one really good game in the first round.

Other than that, he was, he just didn't look as indomitable. And some of that, too, is a credit to Aaron Gordon and just the job that he does. But yeah, the clippers are an interesting one for me. It's the ball handling shortcoming there. Like, I like that team a lot. if they do get Bradley Beal. But without Bradley Beal, I look at it as like, okay, what if Kauai does play 35 games again?

It's a lot of James Harden at that point. Okay, let's talk some Denver Nuggets. So as we zoom out from the offseason, they trade Michael Porter, Jr. And an unprotected first round pick for Cam Johnson, a move that I absolutely loved. We're going to get into that a lot. They signed Bruce Brown to one-year deal.

They signed Tim Hardaway, Jr., and they trade, Dario Sarge for Jonas Valenchunus, a backup center. You also have the potential for Darren Holdens to come back from his Achilles injury and potentially be an alternative big slash a too big kind of option that they can look at. So a significant influx in talent. And the first thing that I thought about when I saw this was just the ability of Yokic to elevate and maximize offensive talent. and I think Cam Johnson is just a better player than Michael Porter Jr.

Tim Hardaway Jr. to me, as a movement off-screen score, is such a perfect fit alongside Nicola Yokic. Bruce Brown has demonstrated a fit in this matchup. I was, you shared this clip. And when I saw it, it made me think of just like what a testament it is to Nicole Yokic and just what an all-time great offensive player. I've said this before my show. I believe he's the greatest offensive player I've ever seen.

Tate with, I think it was Old Man of the Three, asks Cam Johnson and Tim Hardaway, Jr., like, what do you guys think about the prospect of playing with Nicole Yokic? And both dudes just started cheesing. Like right away, simultaneously, like, not influenced by each other, they both just get actively excited. Is that literally what you were feeling this entire summer as all this was taking shape? I mean, it happened so quickly, to be honest with you. I thought, we were joking over on the DNVR show where we said, what would Par be for the? the offseason. I was like, all right, maybe they add Conard, Luke Conard, Bruce Brown. That's par. Anything better than that? This is way better than that. And it all happened in 48 hours.

And here's how I would put it with Cam Johnson. And actually, Tim Hardaway Jr. is one of the guys. I was trying to think of who's going to be the biggest winner from this. And it might be Tim Hardaway Jr. But here's what I'll say about Yokic. Forget talent. He's never played with an all-star, all-defensive player, all-M-B-A guy. Some of that is, by design, not all of it, but some of that is, when you play Yokich's style, everything goes through him. Some guys are so much better at it. it because the skill you need there, in addition to ball handling and shooting and whatever you specialize in, it's the ability to read the court. And even if you go back and watch when the Nuggets made their title run, Michael Porter

was a huge part of that, but there were games, including in the finals, where Bruce Brown closed. And the reason he closed, it was we have to collectively solve whatever the defense is throwing at us right now. And KCP could do it. Jamal Murray could do it. Aaron Gordon could do it. Michael Porter can make shots, but he can't always think on the fly. I think Cam Johnson, among your elite.

role-playing shooters is as good as anyone at, okay, what are they trying to do? What are we trying to do? Read it on the fly. So I think it is a perfect fit for Denver. I think Cam Johnson is a perfect everything you got with Michael Porter, plus everything you wished you got from him, but didn't. And then even the ball handling, like he was even been in Brooklyn these last couple years. And, you know, role player, low usage guy gets to Brooklyn this last year and a half and they

say, hey, expand a little bit, attack. He's so good at it off the dribble handoff, off the pick and roll. and good at it in the exact way that I think is important for playing with Yokic. Not eight dribbles, not nine dribbles. It's, I'm coming off the handoff and I'm not open. So how do I extend this quarter advantage into the next thing? He's so good at it. I think it's going to be a seamless fit.

And it's why I'm so high on the Nuggets and so excited. I think Yokic looks at this and says, this is like if you put in a lab, you put together a bunch of guys that I want to play with. This is the group. Is this the best team that Nicole Yokage has ever played with? I actually asked somebody on the Nuggett staff this, question. And they said, I think so. But I also know that the West is better than it was when we

won the title. And so I think yes. I mean, we'll have to see it on paper. Bruce Brown knows how to play this style. That's six. I think Denver has had six guys who could play this style before. I think Tim Hardaway, Jr. You mentioned him earlier. Great off the ball off ball coming off screens, gets his feet said. He can knock down the shots. He's not a great like ISO score. One or two dribbles, though. It's almost like his limitations feed into what you want because you don't want a guy taking three, four dribbles. Come off if you need to take one or two to get to extend the advantage to do it. So I think he's going to have a great year because he fits as well. And then you got the Valanchunus piece of this, which is, you know, a little bit of a wild card, but they've never had a backup center of his caliber.

So I would say that gives me eight guys that I really feel confidence in. I've only ever had confidence in six. So yes, I think this is the best team. Hey, it's us, the Jonas brothers. And guess what? We have some big news. What's the news, huge news? we created our own podcast called Hey Jonas.

We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to a... We're the first people to do podcasts. Pretty, yeah, pretty wide range of podcasts throughout there. But this one's extra special. So how do we actually come up with a name Hey Jonas, guys? I honestly don't remember.

I think it was on a call about what we should call it. Well, we were thinking I'm originally calling it one of the early names of our band before Jonas Brothers. This is how you guys remember it going down? Yes. I have a very different memory of this. We were talking about a thing, a bit for the podcast, where people could call in and say, Hey, Jonas.

And then I wrote down on my little notepad, Hey Jonas, and offered it up as a potential title for the podcast. But thanks for remembering that, guys. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, Not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and Friends, me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier.

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That's where SportsClice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves, their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls,

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Because if she's serving, well, good luck. Consider this your court side seat to the French Open. Listen to the Renee Stubbs Tennis Podcast on the Eyeheart. radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHeart Women's Sports. Yeah, you know, the point you're making about, like, interchangeability is really important. And I think, like, a lot of it with Bruce Brown was just as much about Michael Porter Jr. and his shortcomings as it was about Bruce Brown and his strengths.

And, like, you know, Michael Porter Jr. had some utility, his ability to be like a secondary rim protector slash defensive rebounder gave some flexibility for Denver to use Aaron Gordon as a perimeter defender. And that was the one, like, if someone asked me, like, what's, what is Michael Porter Jr. better at than Cam Johnson? That's what I would say. I'd be like secondary room protection, defensive rebounding. Like those are the two things that I think that.

And if you wanted to say like straight up, standstill, wide open three point shooting, he's probably at the same level, if not maybe a little higher because he's had some. I think a little higher, but that's such a low part of shooting. And yeah, and how many of those are you really getting? How many of these like wide open catch and shoot threes are you really getting, right? And so Cam Johnson to me, like, Cam is not a guy that I would feel comfortable with guarding the other team's best player in four rounds. But I do think he's a guy you can deploy on the second best perimeter defender or perimeter initiator on the other team. And so I think that kind of puts Aaron Gordon in a situation.

And you and I were actually texting about this shortly after the deal. Like it's it allows Aaron Gordon to remain in the backline, which I actually think is better for him with the mileage that he has on his body now to. like I want him by the rim rather than out chasing guys around on the perimeter. But it also opens up this door to where like, I think, I think Adelman will be able to choose between Cam and Bruce based solely on their strengths and not be hamstrung where it's like MPJ is not in this matchup. MPJ is struggling with the physicality in Minnesota. MPJ is struggling with this.

Instead, I think he's going to have like legitimate options that he can go to. I love the way you framed this because first of all, your point about the defensive end was, I think you were the first one on that. And I think it's very accurate that it allows, Aaron Gordon to be in the right spot. But what you just said is interesting. Denver would go with, oh, this is the better option. But I think now they can go to this is the right option. It's not like it's it's the better of two evils. It's no, this is the tool we need for this moment. And so we'll go with Bruce or we'll go with Tim Hardaway or we'll go with Cam Johnson or whatever it is. And the nice thing about

Bruce Brown, you know, because a lot of people ask me, why has he been so bad, you know, over these last couple years? He is really good at versatility, which is a weird thing to say. But if you don't need that and you're like no we need a shooting guard it's like well he's an okay shooting guard he can do some stuff but he can play the one he could play the two he can play the three and he can even play the four i mean he's one of the rare examples of a guy his size that plays the four at a pretty good level and denver needs that because to your point you might need christian brown cam and bruce you might need bruce cam and aaron gordon any combination of those guys you can throw him in and it was proven that's what they did in that title run and he could just plug whatever a hole it is so

I agree. I don't think any longer you have to pick the best of bad options. You actually have, in theory, good options for just about everything. So specifically with Cam, I think one of the other elements to this is I think he is like legitimately a full tier, if not two tiers ahead of Michael Porter Jr. as like an off the dribble shot creator. He's got a much higher capability of generating separation off the dribble and like rescue possession situations. He's got a good side step three going both directions or step back three going to his left. He's got like just a little bit more of like a bag, for lack of a better term, in terms of being able to create his own shot.

There was this idea that Michael Porter Jr. could scale up his offense alongside Yo Kitch and certain matchups like if Jamal Murray was out or anything along those lines. And I think that that was true to an extent, but it felt very matchup or like matchup dependent. It depended on like the type of coverage he was facing the type of perimeter defender he was on. I think that Cam is going to give them a substantially higher floor offensively.

because of the different options that they can go to. Like, Aaron Gordon has developed into a nice little low post, low post option as a shot creator. I like, obviously, Jamal Murray with bench units has been a switch attacker. Actually, we're going to talk about it a minute, but Jonas Falunas, I think, is going to unlock a little bit of some of the first team offense with the second team, which I think is going to be some, you know, scheme consistency there. But Cam Johnson just gives you guys an entirely different entry point on offense that didn't exist in the past. And I think that that's just going to add an entirely different element.

Like, so let me just ask you this. Do you think Cam changes the way Denver plays at all on either ends on either end of the floor? A hundred percent. I'll go further. I think it's actually significant. And I'll even disagree with you with what you said about Michael Porter. And this is no knock on him. I think he's a great player. And he had to quote about, I feel like my game plateaued and I'm excited. I hope he's right about that. Honestly, I'm not trying to, I'm not trying to like cloud on the guy. I hope he's right about that because I like Michael Porter. But he actually has been. been a pretty robust creator, like individual creator. And you were saying there's matchups. I don't know if I agree with that because I don't know if there were guys where you're like,

oh, he has a size advantage, throw him into the post. He wasn't very efficient at that. Oh, we have a slow-footed guy. Let's clear out and give him space. I don't know that he was great at that. What's great about Cam Johnson is, yes, it changes the way they play because they have Christian Brown, who actually got a lot better as the season went on and over the years, over his three years in the NBA, and just being able to take these one and two dribble. We run a handoff, nothing's there, turn a half step advantage into a full step advantage and then move the ball to get everybody into rotation. He can do that.

Aaron Gordon's phenomenal at it. And Cam Johnson, I think, is this is the thing from going through the tape and watching, you know, over the last week, I've been watching a lot of him in this last year. He's actually really good at it. And in Brooklyn, they gave him a lot of freedom to say, we're running pick and roll. It's probably, if it gets you wide open, great, but it's probably not do something with it. Get the guy on your hip and do something with it. And he was remarkable, not flashy, not doing crazy things, but he was remarkably good

it's just reading the court and figuring out which way to go to get shots off. So now I look at it and I say your bread and butter is Murray and Yokic. Aaron Gordon knows what to do to keep the ball moving and turn these advantages into big advantages. Christian Brown's getting better. Cam Johnson's probably the best third option of that that Denver's ever had and probably even the second option behind Jamal Murray. So I think yes, Denver, I think the ball's going to be popping this year.

I think their offense when it finds its flow is going to be incredible. And so I'm really high on that starting five. I just think it's the most, we call it Yokic ball. Keep the ball moving. Nobody slow it down. No resets. Just keep going into the next action. They have five guys that can do that.

It's going to be so beautiful. I'm particularly excited. I, like Cam, I think too, is a guy that we has developed a lot since he left Phoenix. And I think his reputation is something that is a little bit misunderstood around the league. Like, this is a guy who showed real on ball chops, both offensively and defensively over the course of the last year and a half. A couple of like kind of like smaller questions on the frame. into the roster and then I want to kind of zoom out and look bigger picture with the league. What are you hearing about the Jonas Valenna's situation? Is he going to be a Denver Nugget?

I think he will be on the Denver Nuggett roster. I actually think that it will be resolved relatively shortly. And a lot of this has to do with Denver holds the cards here. I mean, Denver can force him to do what they want. You know, how much of a fight is he going to put up? I think he wants to be in Denver for basketball reasons. You know, I think he, I've heard some people say he doesn't want to be a backup or backing up Yokich is so tough. I don't think it has anything to do with those things. I think being part of a winning culture is great. He's bounced around the league a lot. And I think it's been tough on him. And I think he sees stability over there. Denver can't offer him that. But they do hold the cards. And I do think they'll be able to talk him into, hey, look,

this is going to be a fun year. This isn't Memphis. This isn't Washington. This isn't New Orleans. We like each other. We like each other. You know, just in a holiday had this great quote the year he was here, which was 2024. And he said, this being here this year made me believe in basketball again. Because he was a journeyman. And there was a lot of teams. And I hear of this from a lot of people. There's a lot of unsurious teams and organizations and you go there. And if you're not part of the like toxic culture or whatever that's going on here, you're just like, I'm in a loony bin.

People that go to Denver, not all of them, but people that go to the Denver that just want a good stable culture, they find it there. And I think Valenciunis will find it there as well. They'll talk them into it. But at the end of the day, with Valenciunis on the roster, I put Denver in Tier 1.

And I put them not like 1B or, you know, number 2 or number 3. I put him right there with whoever you think is best in the NBA. I put him there. Without Valenciunis, they have the same problem they always have, which is every second Yokin is on the court, we're going to be hemorrhaging points. So he's essential to their title odds,

and I think that's the reason that they're going to say, sorry, man, we can't budge on this. So before we look at where they rank at the top of the league, because I am fascinated by that concept. I have a couple more small ones. Centering around Jonas Valenchunis, with Dayron Holmes, do you view him as a guy that will potentially,

potentially threaten Jonas and his backup spot? Or do you view him as more of like a guy who's going to be in two big looks as essentially an oversized four? I cannot imagine him overtaking Valenzhenius. I mean, for one, just the size. He's not that big of a guy. I mean, he's a young guy, so he's still filling out. He actually, I think it did really good work over the last four months or so getting his body

bigger than what it was. But Valjunis is a seven footer with, you know, broad shoulders, big, big thick guy. So number one, no, absolutely not. But the second part is I'm not sure he'll be in the rotation. You know, he'll compete with Zeke Naji for backup power forward. But Denver also can play Cam Johnson at Power Forward. They can play Bruce Brown at that spot. They can play Peyton Watson at that spot and move other people into the guard.

So to me, Duran Holmes doesn't only have to beat out Zeke Naji, or Aaron Gordon, stagger, whoever it is. But then you have to beat out all the other guys that you can just play small. So I like him. I think it'd be putting too much pressure on him to expect him to be a part of the rotation. I think he'll get minutes just by 82 games. season. But my expectation is that this will be a true, like, training wills year for him, and he won't be a meaningful part of their season. Yeah, it's an important thing to remember.

He's literally not played NBA basketball for. So it's good. There's good, there could be an adjustment there. One of the things I'm specifically excited about with Jonas Falunas, we talked about this a little bit earlier. We hinted at it. But like, is the scheme consistency. So one of the things I've noticed consistently with Denver over the years is that when they go to their bench, because they haven't had a good backup center option, the majority of the time, they've gone smaller. And it's, you know, maybe it's Ignati. Maybe it's Aaron Gord. net the five, but they just go to a switching defense. And then on the offensive end of the floor, the opponent,

because they're going against a bunch of perimeter players, also ends up switching everything. And then it kind of just devolves into this like yoke, or excuse me, Murray and Gordon like picking on matchups. It might be Gordon attacking out of the post. It might be Jamal taking a big out on the perimeter or a smaller guard to the post and just working a lot of ISO against switches. I think Yonis will give them the ability to essentially have scheme consistency

from the starting group to the bench, essentially meaning Yonis can run the same version of the drop coverage that Nicola Yokic does up at the level or a deeper drop depending on the matchup. And then I think he's going to allow them to continue to run a lot of their five-out type of attack with a dribble handoff fulcrum at the top of the key in the form of Yonis. And Yonis is capable of popping the way that Yokic is in ball screens.

Jonas is capable of like he's got a big, a backup big who can't handle him on the block. We're going to toss him the ball and he's going to be able to go to work there. And so in terms of all the versatility we were discussing earlier, now the Nuggets will have small ball looks and the ability to maintain some schemes consistency when they go to the bench. You might be right about that. I think Valenciunis is good at those things. Maybe he's better than we've seen.

And when you have a team that's, you know, you're not, if a guy has a good at a thing, do you alter your offense to run that style? Whereas Denver already runs that style. So if he can do it, then of course we'll allow him to expand on that. So it's interesting. David Adelman said this yesterday on the broadcast. So I think you're on to it, even though to me it seems a little bit foreign. David Adelman said that exact thing. He reminds me of Yokic. He'll be able to play like Yokic with the second unit. And it will be interesting if he knew that. You know what's interesting. I'm taking this a little bit of a different direction. I don't know if people know this. But Serbia, well, really Yugoslavia and then Serbia and then Lithuania have a nice history. I mean, it's a 30-year history. You're really going back because the breakup of Yugoslavia and the breakup of the Soviet Union happened at similar times. And so you get this like golden era of Serbian basketball at the exact same time as the golden era of the Soviet Union, the Lithuanian basketball.

And they had a nice rivalry. And who did they have? Vladi Divats or Vita Sabonis, two all-time great European centers who just happened to be hitting their peak at the same time and played similar styles more or less. And so there's always been a nice rivalry between these two countries. I say nice. I don't know if they would say it's nice.

I think it's been actually contentious. But what's cool about it is those are two basketball nations. In Europe, those are the two, in my opinion. I mean, Italy, if you go back even further, and then France, Spain, they've had their different areas. But if you go back 100 years and just say, okay, those countries really adapted basketball. And now you've got two of the best of their, you know, own countries now on the same team. And I'm just curious if it brings out the best of them in that way.

So your point about Valenciunis can play like Yokic, I almost wonder if it's like, hey, Lithuanian, Serbia, here we are. Let's both, you know, kind of play this style and get things going. Yeah, can Yokch bring the best out of him? Correct. Exactly. No, and honestly, like, I'm not trying to sit here and say, like, Yonis can do a Yokic impression.

That's not at all what I mean. It's more just like, scheme consistency is good in terms of being able to run certain types of sets, but then also there's a lower bar with the bench groups. Like, Yonis will also be going against lesser talent. And that's really good thing. It's like, can he run a reasonable facsimile of what Yokage does? against lesser talent and still have some impact.

And I do think that he has the potential to do that. And again, like if there's a specific set that's getting Jamal good looks because of the matchup and the scheme that they're running, you can run that with Jonas in a bench group and still have some success there. And some teams his backup center is Trey Liles. Exactly. Sometimes. Yeah.

And you just handle the ball. And you're like, hey, all right. Sorry, you're giving up 60 pounds. Good luck down there. Exactly. A couple other small ones. Any chance the Nuggets bring Russell Westbrook back. I don't think so. I don't see it.

Is it more of like we have too much guard depth now or is it like we had the Russ experience and we're done with it? What I think it is is that Russ is a loud player. Denver had a shallow bench last year. So you have a guy who makes up the entire personality of your second unit. That's good because you didn't have anything else. They do have personality now. They do want continuity.

Russ changes that. He changes the entire dynamic. And then on top of that, and I know Russ fans, I enjoyed Russ. I thought he was phenomenal this last year. People are going to be mad at me for saying that. I look at this year, every team has one guy who's sort of like the odd ball, the odd character. Yeah, but he's the curveball to the character of the locker.

I don't think Denver has that this year. Maybe Peyton Watson, he gets an extension this year. We'll see he's kind of still coming into his own. But I look at that. I go, Russ isn't a curve ball. Good and bad. I think Denver looks at it and says there's nine, 10, 11 guys that can all play in any given night and they all want the same thing and are aiming for the same thing.

You bring Russ in. It's like, okay, everybody changed because now we have a different personality, a different style. I think they enjoyed their rest experience and I think they're done with it. They did get the most out of him, not of anybody post primary ball handler, Russell Westbrook.

I think also like just in general, last year you guys were in a different position. I remember you came on the show. We talked before the season and you like straight up said before the season. You're like, I don't think we can win the title this year. And you guys actually ended up overachieving and getting closer to it than we thought, you know, but like last year you guys were in a situation where high risk,

high reward options were like something you had to consider. this year we just talked about earlier this might be the best team Nicole Yoko's ever played with so like there's no need to take a high risk high reward option in this particular situation hey it's us the Jonas brothers and guess what we have some big news what's the news news huge news we created our own podcast called hey Jonas we invented a podcast well we didn't invent it we just contributed to us first people to do podcasts pretty yeah pretty wide range of podcasts we're starting a trend but this one's extra special so how do we how do we actually come up with name hey Jonas guys. I honestly don't remember. I think it was on a call about what we should call it. Well, we were thinking I'm originally calling it one of the early names of our band before Jonas Brothers was... This is how you guys remember it going down?

Yes. I have a very different memory of this. We were talking about a thing, a bit for the podcast, where people could call in and say, hey Jonas. And then I wrote down on my little notepad, Hey Jonas, Jonas, and offered it up as a potential title for the podcast. But thanks for remembering that, guys. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,

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Last question before we zoom out and start talking about the rest of the West. There has been a narrative surrounding the team, especially with the coaching change. and the idea that the young players were not being given enough of a leash to show what they can do. We talked about how two playoff runs ago, Peyton Watson was like playing extensively down the stretch of the regular season and then was just like literally not used against a Minnesota Timberwolves team that was huge and athletic, and you might have seen some utility even your big athletic forward that could help the situation. So with the influx of guys like Bruce Brown, Tim Hardaway Jr., even at the forward spot with the Duran Holmes, are you worried at all about this potentially taking minutes away from guys like Jalen Pickett, Julian Strather, Peyton Watson, and not affecting their development? Well, let's put Pickett to the side because I just don't know how much. I love the guy. I'm the biggest Jalen Pickett fan in the world, but I just don't know if he's in the cards for the nuggets.

Strother and Peyton Watson and Duran Holmes, I guess you can add him there. Those are the three guys. But I'm not worried about it because Denver had relied on those guys to hit in years past and they don't now. Tim Hardaway Jr. is there, Bruce Browns there, Valchunis is there. If those guys don't hit, you're fine. The problem for me, because it's like, did they play the young guys, would they have won? I don't think so. But here's what happened.

Calvin Booth was very specific about what the plan was. We have drafted these young guys because we have to. and we might suffer. He even came out and said in the title defense year. It's going to be one of our worst years. I don't know if we're going to defend the title this year, but we have to use it as an investment. The Nuggets didn't invest in it.

And then it was like, well, we don't have the flexibility now because, and then last year they signed Zieg Najee to that contract extension, or actually at the same time they signed him. And it was like, is he an $8 million a year player? No, but let's get him there. So we could trade him. That's our only middle of the road contract. He never played.

So I think what my problem was wasn't play the young guys, they're good, they're going to be good. It's the plan requires those guys to at least be tradable. Yeah. And they weren't even given a chance. They weren't tradable. And you didn't win. So it was like to me, you lost on both fronts.

So Jalen Pickett, obviously, as we talked about, most likely going to be out of the rotation. We talk about Julian Strother and Peyton Watson. Do you think one of the, do you think Julian gets squeezed in this situation? So Julian is competing with Tim Hardaway Jr. Yeah. And they are kind of similar players. Yeah. Tim Hardaway Jr.

I think obviously a veteran more consistent, even though he's funny for a veteran. and he's not the most consistent player. I think he will be when he plays with Yokic. But Julian Strother is competing with him. I think the challenge David Adelman has, and by the way, the biggest X factor to me, outside of Jamal Marie's just health and everything else, which is always an X factor.

We'll be in shape. We'll leave in shape all that. David Adelman, we saw him in a playoff run. Awesome. That's different from managing an 82 game season, especially when you talk about 10, 11 guys who could play. A deep rotation. How do you manage that?

That's its own sort of challenge of leadership. But to me, Julian Strother is competing with Tim Hardaway Jr. and I think Tim Hardaway Jr. will have a leg up in it. Adelman's challenge will be how do you win on both fronts? Tim Hardaway Jr. plays, but where do you find minutes for Julian Strather so that he's not just sitting on the bench for months on end? And I wonder if it ends up being, because of how deep they are at other position groups and with Cam Johnson,

I wonder if they can buy Jamal Murray more days off, which could be a thing that ends up, you know, allowing for more opportunity for guys like Julian to play. Like, you could argue that with Jamal, every time there's three games in four nights, he just give him a night. You almost have to. honestly with him.

But with Peyton Watson, though, circling back to him, he's the one guy I look at it. There's one thing that concerns me about Denver, it's this. Peyton Watson is the only defensive player on the bench.

Bruce Brown can defend, but I don't know if he's a stopper. Tim Artaway Jr. isn't. Julian Strother isn't. Valchunis isn't. And you have Christian Brown, who's very good against Pacific types of defenders,

and you have Aaron Gordon, who's good. There's a gap in there that is for Peyton Watson. He has to become playoff playable. for them so that they have all options. They're versatile enough to guard everybody. And then there's some teams that you can need all three of them out there because

you know that you have a lot of offense that you have to cover. So to me, he's going to start out as a guy. He's the one guy that I think has to play through good and bad games and play every single night because he has to get to the point where Denver can rely on them in the postseason. Yeah, he could be an interesting look. If you, if you've, I mean, I actually, I think Christian Brown played really well. I thought he at in big spots, uh, in, in important moments in the series, he figured out how to at least be somewhat effective against Shea at times.

I actually want to talk a little bit about Denver's defense in a second in that playoff run because I thought it was fascinating. But Cam, I think, could play the two. And so you could see a universe, especially with how well Aaron Gordon shot the ball where like if you needed to go super big and athletic, you could theoretically play a couple of those forwards alongside Yokic with the defense. I thought it was really fascinating that up until I can't remember which game it was of the finals, but there was a point in the finals before.

I think it was before they beat the hell out of them in game six, before Indiana beat up O'KC, where Denver had logged the best defensive rating out of any team against Oklahoma City. If you had to explain in 60 seconds how Denver managed to get as many stops against Oklahoma City in that series, how would you break it down?

Well, here's the thing. And it was funny that you mentioned Quay Leonard not having a great series because what Yokic specifically, I mean, Yokich is your anchor on defense and that he has limitations. But I always said he's actually a phenomenal, nominal defender at a lot of things. He's really bad at the most core thing, which is spread pick and roll, especially if you

can put shooters out there. Kauai Leonard doesn't like the spread pick and roll. James Hardin did, and he had some really nice games. Yokic King Guard guys that are trying to ISO on the elbow. He's just smart. He knows how to cut off the angles and do what you do. Oklahoma City is similar in this way. They do have a good pick and roll.

But what Denver really did was they threw zones out there. And David Adelman, well, actually, I should say, Andrew Munson, who's coaching the the summer league team, one of the assistants, with the. in the lead up to Summer League said Adelman wants us experimenting with a lot of things this Summer League because we're working on some new identities next year and I pride them on it.

Hey, what is that? What is that? What is that? And he finally let go, well, we're going to play a lot of zone in Summer League. And I thought, man,

they ran a lot of zone against Oklahoma City. They didn't do it a whole lot all year, although they did do it against Oklahoma City in the regular season a lot. And then they did it the playoffs. The two three where they doubled Shay every time across half court.

That was a fun game. They weren't the ones that invented. Who is it that invented that style and Denver copied it. But yes, it was, it kind of threw them off. They didn't know what to do in the regular season. You put up 140 on them in that game. Something like that.

Yeah, it was pretty dominant. So Denver went to zone in the playoffs and it was very effective. And I think they looked at that and said, is this less of a gimmick and more of something we can build our identity on going forward? And I'm of two minds about that because one, I do believe in. I remember I used to do a show with George Carl and he was so big about teams aren't running zone enough. If I was coaching today, I would be running a lot of zone, a lot of zone.

And George Carl, whatever you think of them, very. good forward thinker about where things are going. He always was. So Denver's going to, I think they use that, and I'm excited for them to experiment with it. But also, 82 games is a long time to scout. And if they run it all year, I think it worked as a curveball in the playoffs. He run it all years. That just, all right, Denver's his own team.

Here's how we do attack it. I don't know. We'll find out. Yeah, like, if I think defensive IQ is an underrated element of that part of the floor, in the sense that you obviously, basically had Christian Brown and Aaron Gordon, two players that I think are good defenders on the floor. But Jamal's smart and he's a little bit of a defensive playmaker and so is Yokic. And in general, they just were a smarter defense than the other teams that went up against Oklahoma

City. And I want to credit Adelman for this too because Minnesota and Indiana, their dumb asses went out there and tried to pick up Shea full court, which compromised them at the point of attack almost immediately in every single situation. And there was some success that Indiana had with their ball pressure and wearing Shea down and exposing a little bit of a lack of ball handling depth for Oklahoma City. But for the most part, it was like abundantly clear, especially with Jada McDaniels, who was just literally looked lost against Shea in that third round. But I thought Denver went into the series with the appropriate pickup point, the mixing

up of coverages, the sagging off and the short closeouts, the passing link closeouts. They forced Oklahoma City to beat them with their brains. and they didn't lose that series because they didn't get enough stops. They lost that series because in the fourth quarter of game four and in the fourth quarter of game five, nobody showed up offensively other than Yokic. And that ended up being the nail in the coffin. But like if they get a couple,

like Michael Porter Jr. misses a couple wide open threes at the top of key in game five. Jamal Murray misses a wide open three in the right corner in game four in a big spot. That's the thing that's exciting for me as we look forward. They just have so much more depth offensively and depth in general to where I don't think they'll wear down at the end of games the way that they did. But I thought that they just showed a very intelligent approach defensively to getting stops against that Oklahoma City team. And I just want to give them credit for that because like I think it's a proof of concept, so to speak, because Denver was not just bad defensively to end the season,

but like kind of embarrassing for Denver Nuggets basketball to be as bad as they were. This is why you're so good at this. I don't mean to compliment you on your own show. This is why you're so good at it because you get to the heart of something for a tell. You're watching all these teams. You're not a Denver guy, but you're getting to the heart of like a core identity for Denver and what I think it is is they are going to force you to play the game on their terms and a lot of people think that of Yokic's pace. He's going to slow it down and you're going to have to be at his pace. But you said they were going to make this a mental game. They were going to say, okay, we're not good. You're way more athletic. You're way quicker.

So we're going to turn this into, how do we turn this into where we're on level footing and now you're going to have a skill advantage, but we're going to make this a slow down mental game. And the zone was a part of that, you know, playing low. Shea, I had this great staff from Mark Campbell who said, I'm picking roles. I think he was one of the lowest point guards in terms of where he received screens because he's not a great pull-up three-point shooting threat. So teams would sink and say, hey, no, you have to pick a screen below the line.

Denver did that as well. And they mixed in some zone. And to me, that was their way of saying, take everything out. We're playing this style because it's slow and it's cerebral. And we feel like we can beat you there. So I think that's part of it. And now they have a smarter team than ever. And even in that series, I don't mean to pick on Michael Porter.

You have six great possessions in a row and one where you completely screw up and give a layup. That was him all, his whole career is that six good possessions, one where you just completely messed up and it's a wide open dunk. I think just take out those wide open dunks. Take the three or four you give up a game. Erase those. And it makes a huge difference on how effective you are defensively. It's the attention to detail. like I when it comes to especially big possessions in crunch time it's actually the higher floor guys the coaches trust the most can I trust you to be in the right spot not make a mistake so that my star can dictate the terms of what happens because like ultimately it is going to be that guy who ends up determining everything all right now top of the west right now according to draft kings the Denver nuggets have the third best odds to win the title Houston is in first in second place at plus 750 you guys are at plus 800 I think Oklahoma city is right around like plus

250 in that range. I am very tempted to pick Denver as my favorite to win the title. The biggest thing that I keep coming back to is I think separate from anything having to do with on-paper talent, I just think they match up extremely well with Oklahoma City. So I'm on the fence. I don't know where I'm going to land. I'll probably decide when we get closer to October. Make the base to me for why Denver should be the team that is favored to win the title.

Well, first of all, I'm going to start by saying this. I've only once ever picked the Denver Nuggets to win an NBA championship. And that was in 2023. So I'm one for one on picking up. Hell yeah. Now, I will say, because I heard you say this on a show the other day that you're like, this is a July prediction. We'll have an October.

I might make a January, February, March predictions. And I think it's true. Like, we're making predictions. We don't even know if Valenciana's coming over. I think the nuggets are going to win it this year. I think they have everything that it takes. I just have such faith in Yokic's ability. I happen to agree with you.

I don't know. Ranking guys number one, number two. offense. I don't know. At a certain point, you're just saying this is a short list of guys that are so good that you can't, they can solve every problem. Yokic is one of those guys. And he's never had a team with this many guys that can contribute to his brain. That can be an extension of what it is that he's trying to do. So I look at that and I agree with you. I mean, they gave Oklahoma City trouble and they had the most flawed roster of the last four years and they still gave him a hard time. I think they're going to do it again this year. If they can be healthy

and everything comes together for them, uh, I do think Houston's going to be a great regular season team. and I think there'll be a good playoff team. I'm skeptical about Kevin Durant's ability to make it through four rounds. And I'm just skeptical of the accumulation of talent does not always equal, you know, oh, this is a great team. It's going to have to come together.

They might do that. I think Emeadoc is a great coach. Defensively, they certainly did it last year. I don't know, I can't see the finish line for Houston the way I can for Denver. And then Oklahoma City, we know they're great. I mean, they've already done it. I think that's going to be by far the biggest challenge.

But to your point, there's something about their style that I think Denver kind of understands and can compete with. And there's just no solution for Yokic. Hartstein's great. Shed Holmgren, by the way, guarded him for one game before they said, we're never doing that again. Not even on switches are we putting you there?

So I look at that and I just say, you know what, that's going to be a great series if we get to it. But I think Denver might have the pieces to get it done this time. Yeah, I keep coming back to a couple different things. Yokuch's best player. And I think he's on a tier by himself, which I think is a unique advantage in this sort of situation.

They are the most experienced. team and have like the best continuity out of the contenders. Like Oklahoma City to me. Yeah, strangely. Like they, they, I also think in general that teams can scale up more on defense in the playoffs and they can scale up on offense. For example, like a team like, a team like Denver is able to approximate a good playoff defense despite no evidence of that during the regular season.

But you're never going to see a team on offense be just like ass all. year long on offense and then suddenly just start picking teams apart when they get into the postseason. And so I think that's part of it for me. Like a team for like Houston for instance. Like I could see Houston like if you if Houston loses in the playoffs, how does Houston lose in the playoffs? How does Houston lose in the playoffs? They can't score. That's what it is. Kevin DeRey faces a super physical defender struggles to get separation as a 37 year old a player at that point in time. And he's just not able to do quite enough. And the defense is still really good. But so did the great offense that they lost to who scaled up their defense and they ended up having an

issue. Oklahoma City to me still has major offensive warts and experience warts. That's kind of the angle that I see them fitting into. But now you got me all interested before we get out of here. I have to just like make the case for you why I think Yokic is the best offensive player that I've ever seen.

I think Steph Curry is the best advantage creator I've ever seen in the sense that just his sheer presence on the court creates more openings than any player that I can remember in terms of just like he just breaks the brain of every defense that he goes against.

And guys start making mistakes and jumping out on switches and and leaving dudes open and there's dunks and layups that they give up. The thing with Steph is Steph was never as reliable as the top guys as like a key possession late in the game. He needs to get a bucket. The team does switch everything correctly. He just was never as good at that. And there was a little bit more variance being that he's a jump shooter.

So he was prone to some cold shooting nights. LeBron, to me, was not quite as good of an advantage creator. Steph, but he was still nearly as good of an offensive player because he had the big physicality, the ability to get to his spots. Yokic to me bridges the gap between both of those guys. He is a top tier historical advantage creator in terms of the ability to break the defense and create all of these openings. He has a similar impact to Steph where his ability to consistently bring the rim protector out to the perimeter, inverts the defense to where now there's less size waiting at the rim for your cutters and your slasher's and your close.

out attackers and stuff like that. But then he adds to that this, if you let me go one on one and you switched everything properly, I have a shot that I can get to that I'm going to hit 60% of the time. And there's no variance. And like even in the games where he played poorly, like game four, for instance, down the stretch,

he was able to get to the bucket a few times and get a couple, like makeable shots for him. And so to me, like he brings the best combination of indomitable on an island scoring, but like defense, breaking advantage creation. And that to me, like, puts him,

I just can't ever remember watching a player that had that same impact on a defense. You made a great case. I like it. I mean, look, here's how I feel about Yokic. He's the only to the, not the only. More so than any other player, including LeBron, there is no defense for him.

Like, whatever you do, because he has every skill. So every defense is a compromise to something else. And there's a lot of teams where even LeBron in his heyday, it was, well, we're going to force him to some, mid-range. We're going to run them off the line. We're going to protect the paint. We're going to do this to that. Theokic is comfortable with literally everything. The question is he's a team player. He's a

as they called Steph a collaborative superstar. And so you need the guys around him who can complete the plays because sometimes the right plays to drag things over and then find the open guy. I just don't think he has any weaknesses. I tell people, I think, they say best passing big man of all time. He's an S-tier passer. I mean, he's the top five passer, I think,

of all time. And then it's not his number one skill. His number one skill is probably his touch from floater zone. Yeah. I mean, he's 10 percentage points better than average from that spot and he can get to there anytime. And then the third skill he has that's also probably number one all time or at least on a short list is he has the best hands I've ever seen. Every loose ball, every pass. Every, every pass. Evensive rebound. You could throw him. I mean, this is why Russ was so good. One of the reasons Russ was so good. He'd throw a 90 mile per hour pass for from me to you. We're with those close as we are. Whip a pass like that. And you just would grab it out of nowhere and finish it. So he has three skills to me that he might be number one all time. I'm in, or at least has a case for it, and he can do everything. So it's a strong case. Here's where I disagree here. Here's where I go different.

The goat conversation or the greatest or any of those types of things, basketball is such a diverse game. It's such a wide game that there's so many different ways to dominate. I think there were guys who were more individually, like the thing they did best, there were guys that were better at that than Yokic is at any one thing. So if you had to, if you could press that advantage, it was like, yeah, that's the most dominant thing I've ever seen. And so there's that way to win.

There's, oh, I can do more different types of winning. And then the last thing is, the game is just so different. I mean, this is what makes LeBron so incredible is he came in in 2003. He was on TRL. I saw this on Twitter the other day, which is. I don't think anybody listening to the show even knows what TRL is. It was a cable show from 30 years ago. I don't know what TRL is.

He was on TRL on MTV 25 years ago, and he's still playing in the NBA. And he went from those Piston Spurs era, grinded, out. You know, he played with Verrajao and Elkowskis at the same time. And then he evolved at all these different evolutions and his skill set fits all of it. I think Yokic is standing on the shoulders of giants, both from the NBA history, but also from European history. And it's just hard to compare and say what would have a lot of these guys done if they, they, Yokic learned the game from them and then built on top of it in a way that I think is underrated how much he's added to the game. I mean, Yokich coming into the league and what he's added, even though you don't have

another Yokic, the game has changed and how the coaches think about it because of his impact. And so it's so hard to compare guys that didn't have that advantage to stand on his shoulders. Yeah, you know, it's been fascinating. I had a mailback question the other day where someone was like, why does nobody high volume post up anymore in the NBA? And there's like a chasm. If you look at Yokich's post, if you just like sorted all players in the NBA by the number of postups they run. Yokic is just on a, it doesn't even look right. He's like off the chart. And I've always, I kept, obviously on the spot had to come up with an answer. And when I immediately went to was like, NBA defenses are so sophisticated now with their ability to shrink the floor and to make things feel

tight on a post up. Like I watched this with Anthony Davis for years. I watched Laker fans be like, why don't they force the ball to Anthony? I'll tell you exactly why they didn't force the ball to Anthony Davis because he'd get down there and they would load up the strong side and the open man would be in the weak side corner and he was just unable to get the ball there in a way to where he actually had an advantage he could attack there. And so as a result, like there's just like I was watching DeAndra Atenh Foothage, you know, obviously scouting him for the Lakers. And like if you watch Aitin's postups, he just like doesn't know what's happening around elsewhere on the floor while he's down there. And like Yokic just has that like court awareness level 100 to where like he didn't even have

to look to know where help defenders are and he just is always aware of what's happening around him. And so he can actually abuse size mismatches and take advantage of where the opening is in the defense in a very sophisticated era of NBA defense. And it just, to me, has been the separator. And this is like some fun because we're both basketball players. So I think you might resonate with this. When you're playing, not just pickup, but a bit really more structured game. And you get the ball in the post. What direction or what kind of move, at least for me, that I'm going to try to attack with has a lot to do with how I'm being guarded and where the help is. because, and this is what Yokish does every single time.

It's okay, I see this guy over here. So I'm going to make the move towards the center of the paint because I want him to be the help guy. And this is what he's doing all the time is like, I'm attacking here. Oh, he's not helping. All right, I got to my spot or I spun the other direction. And that's what he's doing every single time. So when people say they can't post up or these numbers, I always look at it, go, this game was straight up. Nobody helped, nobody double.

Yokish would have a 1.9 points per possession on postup. But he's not just going to score. He's going to just read. And he's constantly manipulative. everything he does is to manipulate somebody else on the court. And it's fun. And when you watch it over and over again, you see it more and more.

And you're like, this is fun to watch, man. It's just a cat and mouse game with all five guys. And all five guys are kind of sitting there a second behind him going like, am I doing the right thing? Am I? Wait, nope. Oh, he was attacking me.

My bad. It's so funny because I, in general over the years, different players resonate with me more or less than others. Like, I have grown to enjoy watching Steph Curry so much. But then like, Shegilds,

Alexander, for instance, I don't enjoy watching him play basketball as much. Even Luca, and I'm a believer in Lucas talent, I don't think Luca would derive the same reaction from Tim Hardaway Jr. and Cam Johnson playing with, now, they would be like, yeah, we're going to get some open looks, but they're not going to enjoy playing in that system as much because Yokic is very much collaborative talent in the sense that his success comes in ball and player movement, whereas for Luca, it comes in pounding the air out of the basketball and passing with four seconds left on the shot clock to an open shooter. and I just I thought that that clip that you shared of those guys reacting is just a is like the embodiment of the Yokic experience.

You watch him and you just smile because it's beautiful basketball. I get to participate in it. Not to be the recipient of it, I get to participate in it. And I think for a guy like Tim Hardaway Jr., that especially, I think that's what he's looking forward to. And it's one of the reasons I think he of everyone is going to benefit because it's not just stand in the corner. It's, hey, come run some pick and roll with me. I'll read what's going on. I'm going to flip the screen.

I'm going to slip it, whatever it is, and it's like you're involved in it. Yeah. Adam, I sincerely appreciate you taking the time. Tell everybody where they can find your work. All-MBA show with me and Tim Legler. And then, if you're interested in more Nuggets coverage five times a week with DNVR Nuggets, we have fun over there. And we have some, I think Bruce Brown's going to come on sometime in the next week or two.

So we're going to have some cool, some of the new guys hopping on. That's awesome. I really appreciate you coming on the show. Everybody, thank you so much for supporting us. Shout out to Sirius XM for taking care of us here at the studio at the win. We will be back tomorrow night. with some more Summer League reaction. I'll see you guys.

As always, I appreciate you for listening to and supporting hoops tonight. It would actually be really helpful for us if you guys would take a second and leave a rating and a review. As always, I appreciate you guys supporting us, but if you could take a minute

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