The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Hoops Tonight - Steph Curry & Klay Thompson lead Warriors over Celtics; why Jayson Tatum struggled

Episode Date: December 11, 2022

Jason Timpf reacts to Stephen Curry, Klay Thompson, Draymond Green, and the Golden State Warriors' 123-107 win over Jayson Tatum and the Boston Celtics. Jason breaks down how Steph and Klay were able to dominate the Celtics, why the Warriors should be title favorites, and how the Jayson Tatum and the Celtics continue to struggle with high pressure situations. #volume #herdSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. Another podcast from some SNL, late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter.

Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque.

Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. On the Look Back at it podcast.

From 1979, that was a big moment for me. 84 was big to me. I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick a year, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. With our friends, fellow comedians, and favorite authors. Like Mark Lamont Hill on the 80s.

84 was a wild year. It was a wild year. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The Volume. Hoops Tonight is presented by Fandual. The NBA is back and there's no better place to get in on the action than with Fandall. This is my favorite sports betting app that is out there.

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so that's why I've got the reindeer clinking the beer mugs. The Boston Celtics had an opportunity to go into Golden State and send a message tonight. And instead, the Golden State Warriors sent an even more resounder. message the other direction. We're going to be diving into that game from a bunch of different angles. You guys know the drill before we get started. Subscribe to the volumes YouTube channel so you don't miss any more of our videos. Follow me on Twitter at underscore Jason LT, so you guys don't miss any show announcements.

And then last but not least, if for whatever reason you guys miss one of these shows and you can't get back over to YouTube to finish, you can find them wherever you get your podcasts under hoops tonight. All right, let's talk some basketball. So we did a show earlier this week, if you guys remember. It was after the Celtics went into Phoenix and beat the crap out of the suns. And if you remember, in that show, I said that I wasn't prepared to move them ahead of Golden State as my championship favorite. And the reason why is I've already seen the Boston Celtics dominate a regular season. From January 8th to the end of the year last year, they were the best defense in the league and the best offense in the league.

They dominated everybody. And yet, against a Milwaukee Bucks team that was down Chris Middleton, they got dragged to seven games. against the Miami Heat team that was at a significant talent disadvantage against Boston, Jimmy Butler had a shot in game seven to win the series. And then after being up two games to one over a Golden State team that was nearly as talented, but I still gave a slight edge to Boston, they got resoundingly beat in games four, five, and six to lose the trophy. It's never been about the talent for Boston with me.

It's been about their ability to execute and avoid their personal pitfalls and weaknesses on the biggest stage against the best teams that directly attack those weaknesses. Why did I pick Golden State to win the title before the season? If you guys remember, I said they are the best combination of talent with management, coaching, experience, and continuity in the league. Talent doesn't define a basketball team. If Boston became a better execution team,

better at executing when the chips are down, they would become my favorite. but that's a significant chunk of what makes a good basketball team, and it's a significant weakness for this Boston team. I didn't care that Golden State got off to a rough start this year, and I didn't care that Boston was killing everyone on the other end of the league, because we know what that Golden State starting lineup is capable of when the chips are down. We know Steve Kerr will give them the best possible game plan to potentially win in any matchup,

and we know the Golden State vets will be locked. into the details. They will execute the game plan. They will be sharp with their coverages. They will sprint back in transition defense. They'll compete in every rebounding situation. They will win in the details of basketball games. Time and time again in basketball history, it's been that type of team that wins the title and not the team that is the most talented. This was a massively important game for both teams. Golden State had an opportunity to remove the bad taste of a mediocre start to their season. It's kind of like the Lakers when they went into and beat the bucks in Milwaukee.

It's like really bad season, but they demonstrated their ceiling is still there when LeBron and AD play well. That's what this game was for Golden State, although on a different level because Golden State has more legitimate title chances because they're more talented. But Golden State, this was their win. You dominate the Celtics on your home floor. That sends the message that, hey, look, we've been sloppy, we've been working through lineup stuff, we're trying to get young guys in the loop.

but when the chips are down, we are still the best. That's why it was important for Golden State. On the other end, for Boston, they're on a three-game losing streak against Golden State. This was their opportunity to send a message that they believe they're better than the Warriors. But when the actual basketball started tonight, Boston wasn't sharp and Golden State was.

Boston tried to win the game on the sheer power of their talent, and Golden State won by trying to execute in the details. For instance, Clay Thompson, big time night tonight. I think he had 25 points in the first half. Shot the lights out. But more importantly, from the opening tip, he did an outstanding job defending Jason Tatum. Something that doesn't show up on the box court.

There was an early possession where Jason Tatum had the ball on the left elbow. And Clay just got up into his airspace, made him feel super uncomfortable. I ended up knocking the ball loose and Golden State ran out the other way. there was another play where Tatum beat him back door and it's like nine out of ten times you just concede that layup it's 48 minute game a lot of basketball left you got beat no no clay like sold out went to try to meet Tatum at the top of the square and blocked it he sent a message early in that game that he was not going to give Tatum

anything easy he was all over him it was peak clay monster defensive performance from him but it's because Clay knew he wasn't wasn't going to win the game based on him getting 25 or 30. He was going to win the game by fulfilling his personal responsibility in the game plan, which involved Andrew Wiggins is out. I have to guard Jason Tatum. Jason Tatum has been one of the best players in the league this year, but in our defensive scheme, if I press up on him and I make him feel uncomfortable and we funnel him into our help, it will test his decision making and he might make mistakes. That was his role in the game plan, and he fulfilled it.

Another great example was transition defense for both teams. Boston was giving up runouts, like flat out like cherry picking runouts all night long. Not cherry picking, but it looked like cherry picking based on how open Golden State players were down the floor. There were two plays in the third quarter back to back when the Celtics were back within six, where on one play, Jalen Brown is standing as Clay Thompson is walking past him. And instead of Jalen Brown sprinting back as was his responsibility with the floor balance, because he was back. He got outrun by Clay Thompson,

wasn't even close, easy dunk. Very next possession. Marcus Smart, three, top of the key. Jordan Poole contests the three. There's three Celtics above the brake line, and none of them ran back. Jordan Poole was by himself for a layup.

That's a detail. If you intend to send a message to the Golden State Warriors on their home floor that you thought it was a fluke that you lost to them in the finals, you have to come in sharp. and they weren't sharp. They gave up 19 fast break points,

which was the difference in this game. And then on the other end, Golden State was super sharp. Time and time again, Boston was trying to get out in transition to find something easier than what they were getting in the half court. And Golden State was just sprinting back,

communicating, getting matched up, and forcing them to score in the half court. Golden State dominated on the glass. That's about competing, crashing or boxing out. I also thought, I mean, and this is another big part of why pick Golden State to win the title this year.

I think they have the best coach in the league. Their game plan was better. Basserand drop coverage all night long. And again, I know it's Blake Griffin, but, you know, if you're going to be a Celtics fan and complain about Horford being out, let's be clear. Andrew Wiggins is more important to the Warriors

than Horford is to the Celtics. This year, the Celtics are plus 14 per 100 possessions when Horford is off the floor. Golden State is minus 7 per 100 possessions with Wiggins off the floor. He's their second best player. And really, they're only legitimately reliable two-way six-eight wing right now. But like Blake Griffin all game long was too far back in drop coverage. And you know what?

It was the exact same thing that happened last year in the finals when it was Al Horford and Robert Williams. They were too far back in their drop coverage and the Warriors were hitting pull-up jumpers over them all game long. As a matter of fact, I've charted a bunch of possessions. When they played no center and they switched everything, they stagnated Golden State, got more stops and got out in transition. They were minus 14 and 28 minutes with a big on the floor, not counting the Noah Vonley minutes at the end in garbage time, and they were minus four in 18 minutes when they didn't have a big on the floor.

So obviously negative in both situations, but they fared a lot better when they were switching than when they were running their drop coverage. It's a consistent, schematic thing that the Celtics do that I disagree with. I think it leaves, I think it's a missed opportunity for their personnel strength. what makes Boston so good is they have literally like seven or eight players that can defend multiple positions and dribble pass and score. They should be the best five out switching everything team in the league. And they are doing a lot more switching with Al Horford, which I think is a big part of

their success so far this year. Meanwhile, on the other end of the Florida Golden States game plan, they were packing the paint and testing Boston's decision making, leaving shooters open, baiting Boston into shooting over help instead of making the right reads, which has been a consistent. consistent problem for Boston throughout this last year. I complained about that nonstop, especially in the second round series against Brooke Lopez and Yon Tenacompo, and in the finals against Kavanaughan and Draymond Green, they were overpacking the paint, giving wide open kickout opportunities.

In Boston Celtics, guards and wings were driving into traffic and trying to score over the top instead. When the Celtics drive and kick, they get quality shots. score more frequently, they're able to get back, set their half-court defense, and get more stops. When they drive and miss over help, they have bad floor balance because they have a guy under the rim who just missed a layup and then they get run out on in transition and give up baskets. That happened again tonight. The Boston Celtics missed 19 shots in the painted area tonight. They were 19 for 38. Jason Tatum was four for 12 in the paint.

Time and time again, just trying to score over help. They're baiting them. into it. It's a game plan thing for Golden State. There's a play there in that fourth quarter. Marcus Smart, driving into the basket, beats his man off the dribble. Kevin Lune's there in help. He ends up losing his dribble and is trapped, gets the ball back and instead of making the kickout pass to a shooter, just tried to shoot over Kevin Lune and got blocked. It's like they can't help themselves. It's like the ugly side of themselves that pops up when teams bait them into it and they struggle to stop that. You know, I thought it was really interesting

when I was watching the film back. There was a clip of Joe Missoula and a timeout in the second half, and he said, quote unquote, we have to make better rim reads to get great looks. That is something that we've literally been screaming on this show for seven months now.

The bottom line is that winning basketball games at the highest level, and I'm not talking about winning in the regular season, I'm talking about at the highest level, conference finals, NBA finals, against the best teams, against other superstars, against teams that have been there and done that. It's not as simple as who has more guys who can score and who has more guys who can defend. We know Boston has that over everybody.

It's about 48 minutes of hundreds and hundreds of basketball decisions. Constant unrelenting effort and attention to detail. Getting back in transition every single time. Boxing your man out every single. single time, being relentless about making the right read every single time, understanding the game plan dynamics that are at play. Like for instance, Boston has been a good transition defense overall this year. They are sixth in opponent fast break points scored per 100 possessions, and they are sixth in overall transition defense according to cleaning the glass on a points

per possession basis. But here's the thing. They were good at that stuff last year too in the regular season, and then they fell apart in the playoffs. That's the difference between the highest levels and the regular season. In those settings, teams will actively try to make you feel uncomfortable and get you out of your element, which can disrupt your rhythm, disrupt your confidence, and cause you to have slippage in the details of the game. Boston kind of loses sight of who they are in these settings. They see the Golden State jerseys, and they, they kind of just denigrate back into an older version of themselves. That's the problem.

That's why I can't get all very, I can't get excited about them dominating a regular season. They have demonstrated time and time again that when they see these Golden State Warriors jerseys, they forget how to play good basketball, good discipline basketball. And that's the difference between the way Boston has won over the last couple years and the way that Golden State has won for a decade then.

When the chips are down, Golden State leans on their commitment to the details. Time and time again, we see Boston get sloppy when it counts, and we see Golden State execute. I wanted to give a couple of specific shoutouts. So I thought Clay Thompson made really great reads all night against Boston's drop coverage.

He's got a really good feel for where his defender is trailing the screen. So if he's got enough space to elevate right away, he can, and then he's really good at using escape dribbles. So, like, you come over the top of the screen, and you don't have enough separation from the defender to raise up. You feel like he can back pressure you, but he's still lingering on the screen a little bit. Push that ball out in front of you. Go to a spot that's five feet further and elevate.

That'll buy you that extra bit of separation you need to get a clean look. It's one of the things that Clay is best at. That's where almost all of his pull-up threes come from. And then another big thing that both him and Steph were doing this, but re-screening. So with how far back Blake Griffin was, you know, And this is the challenge with drop coverage in general. You ask your guard to fight over the top of the screen. That's difficult in and of itself.

But what if he has to fight over the same screen three times? Because Blake is so far back that it's like, okay, Marcus Smart fought over this screen, but then it's a retreat dribble and we come over the screen again. And it's a retreat dribble and we cover the screen again. And maybe Marcus Smart gets over it the first two times. But on the third time, you know, Looney turns and gets the angle right. Now you get the separation and you knock it down. Clay Thompson and Steph Curry were both really patient tonight,

just making sure that they got the right looks out of drop coverage. And then Clay was outstanding with his defense on Tatum, as we mentioned earlier. You know, I was never worried about Clay Thompson, even for a second, this whole season. Because we saw what he was capable of in the NBA finals. We know that the journey back from these injuries is a complicated process. He was going to eventually figure it out. And this was a home run type of performance for him to kind of hammer that point home. Jonathan Caminga did some really nice work in isolation defense on Jason Tatum.

When he was in the game, he had 14 points on nine shots, a really nice left-handed drive in the second half. He had a nasty dunk on Jason Tatum where he tried to post him up and Tatum pushed him under the basket and he lost his dribble a little bit. And he elevated from straight vert from behind the backboard and got over the top of Tatum and dunked it on his head. That was disgusting. He continues to blossom into an incredibly exciting young. prospect. Kavana Luni and Dremont Green. They defended the paint incredibly well, for the most part, without fouling. The Boston Celtics have shot just a hair under 60% this year in the paint,

and the, and Luni and Dremont held them to 50% tonight. And then Steph Curry, you know, I'm running out ways to describe the way he's playing this year. He also torched Boston's drop coverage time and time again, 32, 6 and 7. His shot difficulty was off the charts. The amount of like momentous, incredibly difficult shots that he hit tonight was ridiculous. To go 12 for 21 on the types of shots he was taking tonight is insane. I think he's been, I don't want to change my actual player rankings until the off season. It's kind of like a rule of mine. But in terms of my rolling regular season player rankings, I think Steph's been the best

player in the world this year. And moving over to the Celtics, speaking of incredibly difficult shot making, Jalen Brown, 31, 9, and 3, and he made a ton of high difficulty shots. You know, as far as Jason Tatum, we're going to talk about him in a minute. He's got some issues with Golden State. Like, Tatum, or excuse me, Jalen Brown has been very comfortable in this particular matchup and has had a bunch of big games against the Warriors. He was great against tonight.

Malcolm Brogden, excuse me. Malcolm Brogden's 16 points, five rebounds, and four assists in 23 minutes. His ability to keep his dribble alive while protecting the basketball, mainly with like a really sharp behind the back dribble. It allows him to get to his spots really easily because a lot of, a lot of players when they see an angle, they need to gather the basketball. So they're kind of committed to their move at that point. But like Malcolm Brogkin just keeps the dribble alive and waits for a defender to gamble one way or another,

and then he's got a counter-dribble back to the other side and he can go. I thought he got really high-quality shots through most of the night. Moving on to Jason Tatum, though, six for 21, just 18 points, four for 12 in the paint, like we talked about earlier. This particular matchup against Golden State is very clearly in his head. he was really bad in the NBA finals for the most part. It kind of reminds me of, you know, because I think it's mental. It really reminds me of what LeBron and the Cavs used to do to Demard de Rosen, where regardless of what you think about Demar de Rosen in terms of his placement in the league,

he's not as bad as he looked against the calves in those series. That's the same thing with Jason Tatum. He's been undeniably great for this entire calendar year, with exception of this Golden State Warriors matchup. Even if you look at the Miami Heat series and the Milwaukee Buck series, Tatum had huge moments in that series. Tatum was amazing in Game 6 against Milwaukee. He had a bunch of big games against the Miami Heat.

He looked out of sorts that entire series, and he looked out of sorts again tonight. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast, Superhuman, documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year.

Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care which I'm saying. Yep, that's me. Clipper Taylor the 4th.

You might have seen the skits. the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music.

The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So, if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to The Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app,

Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tapped little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking.

What the hell does George Bush got to do a little kill? Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick it here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill, waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 is big to me, not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack on day, but just so you all know.

I mean, at this point, this is the second episode where we've discussed correct. So I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now. Thank you finishing that sentence. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really? Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history.

Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And my theory is kind of like what LeBron and the Cavs did DeRosen. It's like there's an aura of confidence that surrounds the warriors and surrounds Steph Curry and that they play with. That can be intimidating, you know? Like, LeBron was crazy enough to roll up into Toronto and just be like, I'm going to take 18 fadeaways tonight. You know, like he is so comfortable in that matchup that it rattled de Rose it.

And that's kind of the way that I see it. Steph has been so good in this matchup. And Steph in general is this four-time NBA champion that is arguably the best player in the world that's been around the league for more than a decade, just an established force. And in the Golden State Warriors, you know, the most successful franchise of this era, it's intimidating. You know, because like, here's the thing. Everyone thought it was Andrew Wiggins that messed him up in the finals. Well, Clay Thompson did a similar thing to him tonight. It is not about personnel. You know, Jason Tateum has been lighten up good defenses all year long.

He's been lighting up great defenses all year long. He's been seeing a lot of the same coverages. there is clearly something mental going off there. And you could see it because, you know, he doesn't shoot confidently against them. Even when he's open, he had back-to-back missed threes in that third quarter that were way off. Like he had like a nice little step back where he got good separation and good lift. And it was like two feet long and a foot to the left. Damier put a hole in the backboard. You know, like he had a couple of free throws in the fourth quarter.

Celtics are down by eight. Chance to get it back to six. He shoots the first free throw way long and then shoots the second free throw. way short. That's mental. I don't think that's about a schematic thing. Don't come me wrong. Golden State is trying to bait him into his specific weaknesses, but a lot of teams overhelp on the Celtics and try to do that. This particular matchup clearly has an effect on Jason Tatum. And he eventually needs to get over it because I think Golden State's going to come out of the West this year. He needs to have a big game against them to kind of remind himself of what

he's capable of. In general, just kind of zooming out on Boston, they need to improve in ways that are really difficult to improve on during the regular season. They don't need reps for the sake of reps. They have a year's worth of really solid reps this year where they've killed everybody. They need high pressure reps against great teams in high stakes environments. Kicking the shit out of everybody in the regular season is just not going to help them there. They need to face their ugly side, this ugly side of Boston, which is they're driving into help and shooting over the top of the defense and not getting back in transition, not being

sharp in the details, that ugly side of them that shows up in these big environments, they need to face that and they need to beat it. And I don't think they're going to get a chance to really face that again, aside from a handful of, you know, maybe a matchup against Milwaukee there or another matchup against Golden State in the regular season. They're not really going to get a chance to prove that until the conference finals against Milwaukee this year. So it's tough. It's unfortunate because this was a great opportunity. And again, like, if you go in to Golden State and you're sharp in the details and you get back in transition defense and you make all the right reads and you just shoot poorly and they shoot better and you lose you go home and you're like you know what

they got us tonight but this that's got to be a frustrating loss and i mean you could hear it a little bit in joe mazula's post game comments when he was talking about uh testing their ability to make the right read but like it was exceptionally disappointing because it looked just like last year that looked like an extension of the NBA finals. It didn't look like a Boston team that had learned a lesson. I'm going to try to rewatch this game a little bit, especially once some of the data updates on some of the tracking services that I use. We'll probably touch on this a little bit more later next week.

But that's all I have for tonight. We're going to take tomorrow off, Monday off entirely, and then Tuesday night we'll be going live again, I believe after the Warriors game that night. And then we'll break down a bunch of other games. games from Sunday and Monday as well. As always, I sincerely appreciate your guys' support, and I will see you on Tuesday night.

The Volume. Another podcast from some SNL, late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smigel and Friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter.

Where does your group perform? We do some retirement home. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential.

Either way, the podcast's superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. On the Look Back at it podcast. From 1979, that was a big moment for me. 84 was big to me.

I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick a year, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. With our friends, fellow comedians, and favorite authors. Like Mark Lamont Hill on the 80s. 84 was a wild year. It was a wild year.

I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed human.