The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Hoops Tonight - Top 10 Players in NBA Playoffs: Where do LeBron, Steph Curry & Kevin Durant land?

Episode Date: April 8, 2023

Jason Timpf breaks down his top ten players heading into the NBA Playoffs including the Los Angeles Lakers' LeBron James, Golden State Warriors' Steph Curry, Phoenix Suns' Kevin Durant, and Milwaukee Bucks' Giannis Antetokounmpo. Who is Jason's most valuable player for postseason play? #Volume #HerdSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Weekend, I should say, of NBA basketball, lots of seeding up in the air over the next three days. We're going to be going live, or excuse me, we're going to have a video going up tomorrow morning. that's going to be breaking down Friday nights games. And then on Sunday evening, we're going to be going live with Mr. Colin Cowherd to break down what should be a wild Sunday of NBA basketball. But today is a primer for that. We're going to be going over the 10 players you would best want heading into this playoff front.

And I can think of nobody better to get into the nitty gritty of that list than our guy, Carson, who we have on the show pretty regularly, we're going to have him on and we're going to break down our top 10 playoff players. Carson, how's it going, man? I'm doing great, Jason, and I'm very interested to see how this all shakes out for you, because I just came up with my own list for this a couple days ago. And I think so much talent at the top of the league that it really kind of depends on what you value most. There could be a bunch of variety, I could imagine, between our two lists without it feeling totally crazy to me. So very interested in where you go with all this.

So the first question you and I were kind of hashing out before we actually got into this list, before we actually started recording, was whether or not we were going to factor in Luca here. Now, I would say, judging by the point spread, it would appear that the Chicago Bulls are going to rest their players against the Dallas Mavericks,

which will put them in a good position to win their last two games, because I think their Sunday game is against San Antonio. However, Oklahoma City has, I can't remember exactly who it is. I think it's a match up with the jazz that they just won, and then they have one more game, and they play, I believe, at home against Memphis. And in theory, Memphis will probably be resting their players in that game. So I'd say there's a better than a coin flip chance

that Luca Donchich does not factor into this playoff run at all. However, even though I'm not sure that I would put him this far down, um, heading into a playoff run where he had a more secure seed, I don't feel comfortable putting him ahead of anybody else on this list under the circumstances, because I don't think he's been very good here in the last month or so. So I put Luca at 10th. And again, when we break down what he brings to the playoff stage, he obviously brings otherworldly shot making, otherworldly playmaking.

He's that half-court surgeon that I've always been a huge fan of in the NBA, especially on the playoff stage when teams start to switch more and his ability to attack smaller players and generate quality shots. His weaknesses doesn't defend, obviously, doesn't pay attention in the details of the game. He gets beat on boxouts and things like that all the time,

doesn't run back in transition. And then I've really been unhappy with his attitude as of late. It feels like he's been pouting. And again, like, I get it. It's a discouraging situation with everything surrounding what happened to the Mavericks after the deadline. They trade a textbook case of the drop one athlete and then suddenly you dip below a certain like like absolute minimum of heightened athleticism in the NBA.

They lost to Ori infini Smith and they fell apart. And I'm not a Luca, I don't think, again, I don't think it would have been enough. I don't think they would have won a series or or done any real damage in the NBA playoffs this year. However, Luca could have got him there and he did it. And so for the time being, I'm a big believer in winning being the. the top thing that we factor in when we discuss these players. So call it a punishment, call it like a temporary little like, you know, penalty box or whatever it is.

But even though I would probably put Luca higher, I have him at 10th right now. I would have Luca a few spots higher. I'd have him at 7 on this list. And I think that the reason for that is just that he is in arguably the most valuable archetype, which is, as you said, dominant playoff score, extremely versatile there, dominant playmaker who can elevate your team offense far beyond where your talent level would suggest that it should be. And he is legitimately one of the greatest offensive playoff performers we have ever seen. His playoff career stats are 32 and a half 9 and 8 on 58% true

shooting. And we have seen him every single time he's been there, overperform even these incredibly high expectations we have, taking the clippers to back-to-back battles when he was facing a massive talent deficit. And he was the best player. probably in both those series. And then last year, obviously, elevating the Mavs to the Western Conference finals, knocking off a 64-win-Suns team with just this unbelievable offensive barrage.

So I understand the issues with his defense, and I don't think he's quite as skilled as, like, a Steph Curry, a Nikola Yokic, when you're talking about elevating team offense, just because those guys don't need to single-handedly possess the ball every single possession to have a massive impact, like Luke. like Luca does.

Yokic can do so much with quick touches, playmaking Steph, just his gravity at all times when he's on the court. So that's why I'd have Luca below those guys if we're looking at the like all offense, very little defense quotient, but I do still think his offense is so valuable. And he gets me into conversations

that some of these other guys who may be better two-way players may have had better home stretches this regular season. Just don't get me in because Luca is so dominant offensively. Yeah, it goes beyond the defense stuff. there is a lack of versatility with Luca.

I want to cut him some slack because he's in the middle of a season and he's incorporating a new player. But like I'd like to see him over the course the next few years demonstrate the ability to be an involved offensive cog without being the heliocentric guy. And that's something that I'd like to see him work on. But like at the end of the day, his game has been proven to translate to this level

between the two Clippers series over the previous two, years and then him taking the suns out last year and getting to within three wins of the NBA finals, you'd be lying to yourself if you acted like Luca's game doesn't translate to the playoffs or contribute to winning on that stage. It's just, yes, it's plain and simple. There are players that are better than him. So at number nine, and again, I want to be clear, this is not the same as like a traditional player rankings. Like, to me, a traditional player rankings is like a hierarchy in the league that is a combination of like what you bring during an 82 game regular season, what you bring in terms of your championship pedigree, what you bring in terms of your playoff

resume recently, but also like, like with a with an eye towards the future and what we can expect from you. And like to me, it's like a hierarchy that's a factor of a bunch of different things. This list is intended to be for just this playoff run based on how guys are playing right now. So it's a totally different type of list. But at number nine, I have Jason Tatum. And, you know, obviously his three-point shooting bumps up his efficiency from a scoring standpoint to a level where you look at the points per game and you look at the true shooting percentage and you can't deny that this is a scoring machine that generates points at a high rate. To me, he's the closest thing we have to like a modern James Hardin in types,

in terms of just the pure scoring results. Obviously, he's not in the same stratosphere as a playmaker. But it's one of those guys where every day you go back and you look at the box score and he's like, oh my gosh, he had 35 again on, you know, 16 shots or 17 shots or whatever it is. But it's his, he has, he's got a little bit of the grifts to get to the foul line now that he didn't used to have. He's consistently tweaked his shot diet to take higher value shots. He's taking a lot of shots at the rim and a lot of shots above the break at the three point line and not a lot in the middle. And it's resulting in some efficiency. The biggest thing that freaks me out with Jason

Tatum, a couple things, decision making. He's, actually a better playmaker than he gets credit for. And the Celtics are at their best when he's passing the basketball. But he does have a tendency to go through these long extended stretches where his decision making is poor. And he usually, Jason Tatum and his offensive approach to me is the big like bellwether for how the Celtics are playing as a team. And then lastly, just a lack of shot making versatility. So like his, his go-to moves are so rigid. And there's only a few of them. And as a result, like, he becomes a little predictable at the end of games. Whereas, like, Jalen Brown has this real creativity and audacity to his shopmaking that I think

helps him thrive on those stages. And a lot of times, I think Tatum becomes predictable and guardable at the end of games. So that decision-making piece and that, you know, like, in terms of pure production, he belongs on this list. But I don't think he has the versatility, really on both ends of the floor to be higher than the guys above him. This is exactly where I have Tatum, and I think that you've laid out a lot of the strengths and weaknesses of his game really well. If you look at him, he's in the archetype of like, ideally, if we were to get the best version of Jason Tatum, that value would be like a 2019 Kawhi Leonard. But the reality is there are just a few areas in which he's not on that level.

Very good defensively, not quite at that level in terms of impact. But more importantly, it's what you laid out. It's the overall offensive inconsistency, if it's, It's a question of being heavily reliant on that three-point shot, creating it for himself off the dribble, which at times does leave him. If it's at times issues with decision-making, playmaking. And just the reality that he doesn't have the sort of relentlessness, I'm going to get to my spot, and that spot might be 12 feet away, and I'm just going to hit my fade away that I trust myself to make it a 60% clip that like a Kauai Leonard does.

So there's a difference in terms of consistency, ultimately efficiency on the biggest stage, I think. I think that this is where you have to have Tatum, probably in that nine or 10 range. The only reason I don't have him at 10 on my list, honestly, is because of availability. He has been quite consistently available. But if he were in that true top tier, the Celtics would have won the title last year. And they would be clearly my title favorite this year. They've had the most talented rosters. But the reality is his inconsistencies has held them back in that really high stakes arena. That's a hunt. It's really that simple. Like, he,

would have won last year and he'd be the runaway favorite this year if he was one of those guys because Boston has the best team. It's literally that simple to me. I have at number eight, Kauai, and you pointed out something that I think is so vitally important because Kauai and Tatum are similar archetypes in a lot of ways. Like they've both kind of come along as playmakers to the point where you can at least count on them to make the right reads when they're in certain situations and they bring that efficient scoring, right? But the part that you got to, and this is where points per possession is actually kind of a bad indicator of just the overall scoring versatility of a player. Doesn't mean that points per possession doesn't have value. It's just,

it doesn't tell the whole story. So Jason Tatum on a points per possession basis on different shot types is going to have a similar type of efficiency to Kauai Leonard. If you look at it like isolation, high pick and roll, all these different things. But because he relies a lot on above the break threes and obviously getting to the rim has a lot more to do with the schematic of a five main unit and spacing and that sort of thing, then actually like a reliable possession by possession type of result. You pointed out perfectly. Kawhi has these moves that he can go to. That's like, okay, it's only worth two points. But like if I get to my spot, I'm hitting this 60% of the time. And that's that's so immensely valuable when you get to the late game

playoff scenarios because again, even if Tatum's like, oh, I'm hitting this pull up three at 38%. That's great. That means you're going to get, you know, roughly 1.2, 1.3 points per possession, right? Awesome. Here's the problem. You don't get to take that shot at the end of the game and just notch 1.2 points to the scoreboard. No, you're going to miss two of them before you make one. Maybe. Or maybe you make it. But from a percentage standpoint, there's a better than 50% chance that possession's ending in nothing. And if you need a bucket on that possession or it's a rescue possession at the end of a clock, having a go-to move that is an extremely efficient shot like Kauai's mid-range pull-up jump shots over both shoulders or out of the post over, or out of the post over both shoulders,

or going right or left in pick and roll, those are just immensely valuable shots in the grind of NBA playoff games. So the big weaknesses for me with Kauai, health obviously, like this dude, last time we saw him healthy heading into a playoff run broke down in the second round. He relies a lot on pull-up shooting. So if he does start to miss, he's not a guy that gets to the rim super consistently. And then from a playmaking standpoint, there's a little bit of a ceiling there. But right now I have Kauai at eight. I would have Kauai even a little bit higher at number six.

I think he is an all-time playoff performer. And I think that his game just seamlessly translates, the dominant wing scoring, the solid playmaking, the dominant defense. that we can see from him on that playoff stage. Last four times he's been to the playoffs, he's averaged over 29 a night on 51, 3889 splits. That's so crazy. As he's worked his way into full health this year,

he's been the normal Kauai that we expect. He's been that dominant guy. So I agree with you, the availability is a concern, but there is no doubt that when we see him there, 2017, right, he's a different player since then, but he was kicking the Warriors, what some people considered the greatest team ever.

He was kicking their ass after he had two incredible series before that. both Clippers years. He was great with the exception of like that finishing stretch against Denver and then he got hurt. And Toronto was one of the best individual playoff runs of this century. So I just believe in that value. I think that offensively he is every bit as good as he's ever been. And I'm going to bet on that translating because we've seen it translate with him every single time he's been there. And some of these other guys who may have had more impressive regular seasons, can't say that in the same way that he can. Well, what bums me out though is that team is not very good. And he's had it for a quick exit.

And it's just really unfortunate. Number seven, LeBron James. Ooh. I still think when it comes to this playoff stage, and the reason why I have him down low is a couple of things. His health, obviously, is a big question mark. There's just not a guarantee that he'll be available throughout this entire playoff run.

And then also he's having his worst jump shooting season since 2000. 15. And that is just such an important part of his. Now, he has shot the jump shot well since returning. Just in the last couple of games, I want to say he's like seven for his last 16 from three. And particularly in the second half against the Clippers the other night, he really had everything going. But it's been a little bit of an issue this year and that I think lowers my confidence in him a little bit. But LeBron James to me is the, there's a reason why LeBron in his career has been. been the most dependably great playoff player, in my opinion in NBA history, even in the LeBron MJ debate, regardless of who you think is better. And I think Michael Jordan has definitively

had a more dominant NBA career in terms of the way he performed relative to his peers. But LeBron James is far more dependably great because Michael Jordan was reliant on shot making to a certain extent. And he had bad playoff games. You'd get, you'd have a game where he goes seven for 30. You know what I mean? LeBron James, I've never seen a player in my life where if it was a big playoff game, you could count on him to play extremely well. And I think it's because he has the perfect combination of tools. When you combine his ability to score at all three levels and to attack matchups,

which is so important at this level, he is a top tier surgical half court playmaker. And defensively, he's incredibly versatile. Yeah, he's not the same defensive player in terms of consistency that he was when he was younger, but we've seen this time and again, and we saw it in 2020, and he's done it even just since returning this year. When he's engaged defensively, he is still a very impactful defender that can succeed in help, that can protect the rim a little bit,

that can guard on the perimeter. LeBron, I believe, brings all that versatility to the table. And as a result, he is capable of impacting the game in so many different ways that if, hey, my jump shot's not falling, cool he's going to go eight for 22 he's going to have 27 9 and 8 and he's going to be a net positive on both ends of the floor that's his bad game and that then it's like if the jumpers start falling now we're looking at 35 9 and 7 in a totally different type of game so like again it's the health and his jump shots a little finicky this year but i still think i still think on this playoff stages every bit as good as any of these

guys i'm really surprised i have lebron higher than you jason which i have about expect. I think that the reality is we have never not seen LeBron James translate to the playoffs since he became that reliable, solid pull-up jump shooter. Obviously, you have the 2011 finals, but that was an entirely different player. I think that if you look at the combination of physical imposition, getting to the rim at will, genius playmaking, the only thing, keeping him from being a bona fide top five guy to me is the inconsistency of his jump shot this year. But at the end of the day, I have faith in LeBron shooting at a respectable level on the playoffs. I think that this regular season is probably more of an aberration than his overall body of work

where he's consistently been that 35, 36% range from three. And then I just think there's a control of the game. There's an all-around offensive dominance and the ability to be at least not exploitable defensively. Like, for example, Luca, who has this unbelievable offensive value but can get picked on on that end more than LeBron, I just can't bet against it. I mean, he's still putting up his efficient 30 a night, having a massive impact on winning while having a horrible pull-up jump shooting season, while having had some health issues. He's 38, but he is still, to me, immortal.

So I have him in my five spot. Interesting. Yeah. So to be clear, like, if I'm going into a first round series and LeBron's healthy and I know he's going to be available for that game, just because of how big of a fan I am of his game, I'm always going to be looking at that going like, LeBron might be the best player on the floor in this game. Like that is such a firm possibility in every matchup. But going into a two-month-long playoff run, you would be foolish to bet on him over some of the guys above it. So number six, I have Nicola Yokic. Strengths, obviously, outstanding playmaking and play finishing.

His efficiency is just hard to even fathom. I mean, what he's pushing 70% true shooting this year, right? The big thing, there's two things that worry me with Yokic. obviously defensive versatility. I actually think when he's really locked in, he can be an average rim protector, which is enough to be fine defensively. But in the versatility department,

with the way that teams are going to try to pull him away from the rim, obviously that's a weakness. And then I also get a little bit worried with Yokic as it pertains to aggression. So like he reminds me a little bit of early LeBron where when the game calls for him to just go make his own shots. Sometimes he can be a little bit too much of an

offensive engine that's just trying to create shots for his teammates. Instead of doing the Joel Embed thing, which is like, I'm Joel freaking Embed, you can't guard me. The next five possessions, I'm going to shoot over the top of you. You know what I mean? And it's not that he can't do that because obviously, like when we look at it,

his post-up scoring is the very best in the league, basically. He does have that ability, but it's more of a mentality thing for me. I think he struggles with identifying when the team needs him to just shoot every time down the floor. So that's why I haven't met six right now. The one thing that I will say is that I think we have seen Yokic get that a lot more on the

playoff stage than he might on your average regular season night. Of course, this has been with abysmal backcourt talent in the last two years, but his last two post seasons, he's been over 30 points a night very efficiently. So I do think he gets it a bit more on that stage. And the reality to me is that he's the best offensive basketball player in the world. And so that to me has to put him in my top four. But the differentiator for me between him and my two and three spots is his exploitability defensively. Because it's not just that he's a below average defender.

It is the fact that he's playing the most important defensive position. And it's just easier to involve a center in any action, right? Bring him up into pick and roll. Just attack him at the rim and challenge him as a rim protector. So that knocks him down for me. I still do feel like six is too low, though, because we've seen Yokic lift his team to be a top five playoff offense every single time that he's been there. And the only time that we've seen them with the kind of playoff talent in these last few years

that you could expect to even win a series when that roster wasn't as talented as this year. But in the bubble, they went to the Western Conference finals. They beat a Clippers team that was clearly more talented and Yokic was out of this world. In the last two years, individually, offensively, he's been everything that you could have hoped for. So I just think that offensive value, the fact that he's proven. that that translates clearly is something that, for example, a Joelle Embed has not done in the playoffs. It is something that an Anthony Davis can't claim to have because he can't be that reliable number one every single night offensively who will make you a lead on that end. And so I do think

that Yokic should be a little bit higher than this. I get the defensive concerns, but he's so great offensively, so monumentally great that I have him at my four spot. And again, it's about like this list is splitting hairs. Like all the guys that I have ahead of him are so insanely good. I think there's one you'll probably disagree with, which is my number five, Anthony Davis. So when I was thinking about his strengths, the first thing I put down is just physical tools.

And I just want, obviously we can go at like the play finishing, the rim protection, all these different things. But Anthony Davis to me is the number one athletic wrecking ball in this playoff field. with what he can do defensively protecting the rim and switching out onto the perimeter. I actually believe, even though I think Janus deserves to be called the best defensive player alive because of what he actually does on a nightly basis and his availability, that's his crown. I actually think Anthony Davis has the highest defensive ceiling in the NBA.

I believe that when Anthony Davis is at his best, nobody can protect the rim while also coming up high out of a drop coverage, while also switching, blitzing, rotating, everything that he does. Nobody can do what Anthony Davis does. It blows up NBA offenses. I've actually never seen a defensive player due to an NBA team what Anthony Davis did to the Miami Heat in the NBA Finals in 2020. He absolutely and completely devastated their offense to the point where they did not know what to do. And that was an NBA finals team.

And then on the offensive end of the floor, say what you want to say. Obviously, there's some limitations there. And there's no doubt that he's not the same offensive. offensive player as someone like Yokic or someone like Mbid, but you're going to get 26. You're going to get high 50% shooting. And on any given night, he can go for 40, 45 points if he's got his touch going on a handful of his particular shots that he leans on. This to me is the textbook playoff translatability quotient.

No one in the world would take Anthony Davis over Nicola Yokicich or Joelle Embeded with what they can do to raise the team's floor over the course of a season because of the their higher offensive ceiling. They are better options to build your franchise around. But when the ball gets tossed up in the NBA finals, and it's the Western Conference Finals, or it's in one of those late round playoff series against an elite team,

what he does translates to that level in such a visceral way that it's hard to describe, but it's just like a sheer force of nature type of thing, that to me increases his playoff impact to a level that very few guys in the league can actually reach. There's a case that he's the best guy in this setting because, like, he was better than LeBron through that entire 2020 run, basically until, until late game situations where LeBron's half-court surgery became the value piece.

But he was the best player in the bubble, basically, in terms of his overall impact on winning. I think his, I think his injury history has turned people away from him in a lot. lot of different ways. But I think Anthony Davis, there's such a huge gap between his ceiling and his actual level of consistency, but you could argue his ceiling is higher than everybody, and that's why I have him at number five. It's interesting. I think that AD is a tough guy to rank, but I think that for me, the issue is with the offensive consistency, with the playmaking limitations, with the fact that as liable as he is to go for 35, he is to go for 17. He might only take

eight shots in a game. And I just think there's a burden offensively on a lot of these other guys that AD has not had to bear because he has LeBron. And so that allows to cover up for some of his limitations because when he can be the best defensive player in the world and this awesome second option offensively, it's like, yeah, AD is unbelievable. But a lot of guys are single-handedly asked to elevate their offenses to being elite, which is what gets their team into those elite conversations.

And so that combined with availability moves AD down a bit. for me. I think that bubble AD was like the best version of him we could ever possibly hope to see unless he shoots that well from three again this year. And still, I think that push come to shove, LeBron was the more valuable player. The LeBron was the better player. And that's just an archetype thing. If you are that great perimeter initiator who can also defend, especially, it's just more valuable if you're that great offensive engine. And so even compared to a guy like Kauai, the reason I would lean him is because I just trust the offense more and I know he's going to have a high level impact defensively.

So I don't have a problem with 80 at 5. I just am not sure that the consistency makes me comfortable having him up that high. For sure. And again, the reality is, is like you are a product of a basketball team. And take away shot making from Janice, like from his teammates, suddenly some of his offensive limitations come to the surface. There's no doubt that in a vacuum, Anthony Davis is not the same player as Nicolioch or Joel Embate.

Bottom line, though, you put him with LeBron, and he can cover some of those weaknesses. His winning impact is so massive in all of these other areas of the game that it kind of unlocks that. And like, the reality is, is he is with LeBron. And so we can talk all we want about these different varying factors. But if the Lakers happen to end up the eight seed because they lose to Minnesota in the first playing game and then beat OKC in the second playing game and they head up to Denver for game one, it's not like Yokic gets to look at him beat and go like, hey, I'm better than you. It doesn't matter.

He is with LeBron. And that means in that series, he's going to have LeBron and as his teammate, which means he's going to be able to impact winning in that context. And to me, that's what makes him such a terrifying

playoff player. But again, all your points are completely fair and we are splitting hairs at a certain point here. Number four, Joel Embed, the big things that I worry about with him are basically just the same things that I worry about with Yokic defensively,

foot speed and defensive versatility, getting lost in transition or getting pulled away from the rim. That actually became a problem consistently in the playoffs last year, him giving up straight line drives when he got pulled out to the perimeter, particularly in semi-transition when he was kind of away from the rim. But this is the modern-day version of Shaq, in my opinion, in terms of just the way that he warps the defense from the center position. You cannot guard him in single coverage anymore. He's so deadly with that

damn pull-up jump shot at 15 feet that it forces defenders to come up on him. And he's so damn big and strong that when he goes to those rip-through moves, it just, he's going to win that confrontation 100% of the time. It is, he has reached a point in proficiency as a jump shooter that he is a huge problem now. Just a gigantic problem. And so, like, he, in terms of a player that consistently dictates double teams and causes you to have to completely fundamentally change the way you defend, I actually think he's one of the most, he's one of the most imposing, like, game plan changing players on this.

list. And then again, for what you want to say about his defensive versatility, he is an outstanding rim protector, in my opinion, especially here in this last couple of months. So I've Embeddead at four right now. I totally get it. I think Abed is a different version of himself than we've ever seen before because of how incredibly proficient he's been as a jump shooter. And also because I think the other dimension to his game that's been unlocked is the pick and roll game. I mean, a couple years ago, we never really saw Embedd's run much pick and roll at all. He didn't have a great pick and roll ball handler.

Now he does in James Harden, and he's gotten so good at that free throw line jumper and everything that feeds off of that, getting to the rim, getting to the line that he's the highest scoring pick and roll player in the league when you're talking about role men. So I do think this is the best NBA that we've ever seen. That being said, I think his playoff resume is easily the weakest of anybody in this top 10. And I don't think that we discuss that enough. We have consistently seen his decision making, playmaking, fall apart in the

playoffs. 2.8 assists per game to 3.4 turnovers in his playoff career, Jason. And yes, he's a better playmaker, decision maker than we've ever seen him be, but he's still probably the weakest out of this entire group there, and he will see a lot of doubles. And so he has to consistently make the right reads there, or else some of his value is going to diminish. We've seen him struggle as a shot maker. He has not been the same jump shooter, finisher in the playoffs, under 47% from the field, under 30% from three. We've seen him struggle to get to the line. His free throw attempts from the regular season to the playoffs have gone down by basically to a game in these last two post seasons, which makes a lot of sense.

There's a lot of foul baiting. You just don't get that in the same way in the playoffs. And then we've seen his health fall apart. Every single time that Philly's been to the second round, he's missed a game. And on top of the game that he's missed, right, he's been playing with some sort of injury probably at some point in some of those surrounding games. And just in a lot of do or die situations and a lot of those series where Philly has a talent advantage, he's falling apart. He was bad last year versus the heat with an orbital fracture, sure, but under 20 a night, 43% from the field, 26% from three, more turnovers than assists. Year before that was the disappointing loss of the Hawks, you're before, or yeah,

year before that, they just got swept by the Celtics. Year before that, they got, he was terrible against the Raptors. So I think this is the best version of Embeddead ever, but I do think he needs to prove it. And I do think the archetype of, I can lift everybody off fence. is more valuable than Embed's. I will be this dominant score when he hasn't been a dominant score in the playoffs and I do agree with you in a playoff setting

you play against a great pull-up jump shooting team. You play against a team that's going to involve him in a lot of pick and roll and he's got to cover a lot of ground. I do think that his defensive value is not what some people might expect it to be because he is a slower plotting guy. So I'm lower on MBD of the consensus for this.

I just think the LeBron, the Kauai, the Lukatiers, those guys, we've seen it offensively. And Embed has been better than any of them this year, but I just have faith in what we've seen on this playoff stage a bit more. So I had Embed at eight when I did my rank. Wow. Yeah. Everything you say about Embedd's playoff resume is real and true, in my opinion.

However, I actually think he is not just the best version of himself now. I think Embed is considerably better than he was last year. It's hard to describe, but like I noticed this in my own basketball development as I was growing up, like it doesn't happen linearly. Like you take leaps. Like you figure things out and you take leaps. There's like a like it almost happens overnight sometimes when something clicks for you in a specific area of your skill set.

And it's like, oh, suddenly like this makes sense to me now and I can do this at a higher level. I actually think M.B. legitimately has taken a leap up to the next like tier of super stardom in this season. And so everything you're saying about his playoff resume is true. But I want to see if you can do it this year. I want to kind of give him the opportunity to prove that. he's improved. Number three, and I actually think this guy has been arguably the best player I've seen this season when he's been healthy, but I'm tossing just basically the, I'm giving

essentially leeway to the two guys in front of them based on their championship pedigree in recent years. But in number three, I have Kevin Durant. I think, obviously he's having, I believe, the best pull-up jump shooting season in history of the league. And maybe not in terms of a effective field goal percentage compared to some of the three point hunters. But in terms of like dynamic three level pull up shooting or two level pull up shooting, I should say, it's the best in the history of the league by far. Someone tweeted out last night, KD himself tweeted out. He's shooting over 60% on twos, 40% on three, is 90% on free throws.

It's unbelievable. He's actually having an incredibly underrated playmaking season. It's one of the biggest things that I think is misrepresented about Kevin Durant's game is he's kind of portrayed as a score that can't pass. but he's other than maybe Janice, a lot of these top tiers forwards, he's a much better passer than Tatum. He's a much better passer than Kauai Leonard.

Like KD is a legitimate playmaker. The only real weakness with Kevin Durant is he does not get to the rim. And so that kind of limits him in terms of reaching a ceiling in playmaking that you have to apply consistent room pressure to get. And then he can be dependent on his pull-up jump shot going in, which it almost always does. But we have seen it not. And it's absolutely a risk because here's the reality.

Kevin Durant was awesome last year in the regular season two. And then he ran into Boston. The shot stopped falling. Next thing you know, they were out of the playoffs in four games. So I want to cut him some slack. It's one week of basketball. But that I think is the thing that kind of holds him back from. KD, I think, has never definitively been the best player in the league.

And I believe that is a result of the fact that he does rely on jump shooting, pull up jump shooting, to have that top-tier impact while some of the guys around him have impact, while some of the guys around him aren't as reliant on pull-up jump shooting as he is. That's interesting. I would say, though, that I think that ever since he arrived in Golden State

with the exception of last year, Katie has been an exceptional playoff performer. And I think that, honestly, 2019 and then 2021 in Brooklyn, those were the two best playoff versions of Katie that I have ever seen, like just an unstoppable scoring, level in that series against the Clippers, for example, in 2019.

And then in that series against the bucks, the level of complete offensive engine that he was, scoring and playmaking, just dominant. I mean, across those two playoffs, he's over 33 a night on 51, 40, 289 splits. It's just, I do believe that he is largely unstoppable. And last year was weird. I do not think that that is a replicable result. I think there is a completeness with him offensively where he elevates any team so immediately in the NBA. we've already seen it in Phoenix.

He just comes in and he's like, yeah, I'll shoot 65% from the floor. And we're undefeated. And we're undefeated and I'll do so much off ball. And to me, he's the top two score of all time. He has been a great playmaker this year, as you said, and he's had the best defensive year of his career probably. And I think that that is the distinction.

When I'm comparing him to Steph and Yokic, the other guys in my top four, those guys are better offensive players in my opinion because there is a more complete impact. There is what we've already talked about, Steph elevating everybody with his mere presence. Yokic's genius playmaking. But the reality is both those guys in their own ways can be exploited defensively.

And KD, in a role that he has played for a majority of this year, that secondary rim protector, can be a very impactful, positive defensive player while being the best score alive and being able to play so many roles offensively, dominant pick and roll, dominant isolation, dominant catch and shooter. And so I really, really value that. I value how consistently we've seen it from him. And I think this is the best KD that we've ever seen. I have him at number two on my list.

Again, he could just as easily be one for me. Again, you're right. 2002 was an anomaly. That's a fact. But it can happen. That's like it's, here's the thing. Pull-up jump shots are the most difficult shot in basketball. That's just a fact.

He's the best at them. But really good physical defense can disrupt his base. and we've seen him, again, it had been a very long time. But we did see him running to pull up jump shooting problems relatively often from 2013 to 2016. We did. And then he had this stretch where he was excellent, and then we saw that anomaly again last year. Again, you can make a case for him to have him at number one.

I'm not, I don't think there's a player on this list that's perfect, for the record. The last guy I would have put on this list that was perfect was 2018, LeBron. He had every box checked resounding. There was not a weakness in his. game. Every guy on this list has a weakness now. That's kind of the difference in my opinion. And that's why LeBron's the second best player to ever pick up a basketball. But number two, I have Steph Curry. And again, there's the, the gravity thing sometimes gets overplayed because people want to prop step up in some ways. And that is a fact. But it is real.

As is always the case, the truth is somewhere in the middle. Like, all superstars dictate multiple defenders. That's just a fact. So sometimes like portraying Steph is the only guy that does that, I don't think is, is a accurate representation of reality. But what makes Steph's defensive attention so unique is that it pulls multiple defenders away from the basket.

We talk a lot about basketball efficiency, right? And, oh, like a quality three-point shot, you know, even an average three-point shot is better than a quality 15-footer because sheer math, right? But what's the most efficient shot in basketball? A layup. And even on Steph's bad shooting nights, he is constantly pulling multiple defenders away from the rim

and creating opportunities around the basket. And those opportunities are extremely high percentage opportunities. That's why I think even though Yokic, you think Yokic is the best offensive player in the league, I still think Steph is. And I think he, and I think you would agree that Steph has been the most dynamic offensive player or best offensive player of this

era in terms of like the total picture. Absolutely. The only thing that really holds him back again is his physical tools. And to his credit, he's bigger and stronger than people think. He's 6'4 3. He spends a lot of time in the weight room. He's well built. But at the end of the day, he cannot impact

the game with his size and strength the way that guys like Janus and Kevin Durant and LeBron and LeBron and even Joe Al-Lambide can. And those sorts of of that sort of thing, I think, as always held Steph back just a little bit, but it's irrelevant. The dude's a four-time champion, and he's won a title as the best player twice. And I gave him the nod over KD here, quite simply because I am such a big believer in applying,

applying the appropriate respect to an NBA champion. He went into Boston, the most talented roster in the league last year, down two games to one, on the road. And he killed those guys. and and there's just there's just there might be three or four guys on that list that we're doing today that are even capable of that. And to me and to me that resulted in the trophy and that needs to be paid the appropriate amount of respect. I have him at number two.

One of the things that I think is really funny about just the evolution of skill in today's NBA. And I was just thinking about this the other day is when we talk about peak Steph, a lot of people people probably still go to 2016, right? Unanimous MVP, this efficiency we'd never seen. Steph has so clearly been better these last three years at basketball than he was then. If you want to talk about relative to the competition, that's fine. But absolutely, right? He's stronger.

He's had these unbelievable pull-up jump shooting seasons last year and on the regular season, but last year's playoffs was the most impressive individual run we've ever seen from him on that stage because he elevated this team that didn't have another consistent offensive star to be great offensively in the playoffs. We talk about their defensive foundation all the time. They were a better playoff offense last year. They were fourth than a playoff defense where they were sixth. And so they've always had that two-way formula.

But Steph has always been the offensive foundation that makes them brilliant year and year out. So I will not push back against Steph being number two for you. Again, to me, I slightly lean Katie just because Steph, as much as he has improved defensively and worked on that. It's like you said, if you're not an exceptional defender at 6-3 with the level of switching that we see in today's NBA, you can be attacked, you can be exploited.

And so it's not a strength for him, whereas for Katie, it can be. But his playoff resume is so underrated. He's consistently been great on that stage, one of the most prolific and efficient playoff scores ever. And it's so much beyond that, elevating the offense. I agree with you. Obviously, every star is attracting multiple defenders, but I don't know who was reshaped an entire defensive approach every single possession just by being on the court like Steph.

So I think he's up there for the greatest offensive engine of all time. And I think he's as good as he's ever been. So I think he belongs in this top three at the very least. And that's where I have him at three. Yeah. And it's similar to LeBron. His bad games carry so much impact as a result of that. But you're right, there's a limit.

The best way I could describe the Steph Curry defense thing is like it's not a good option to attack him because he is a good. good defensive player, but it's a much better option to attack him than anybody else on the floor. Right. And so what ends up happening? They target stuff. And it's just, it's just, it's just a ceiling, so to speak, that that kind of caps him from reaching like that, that next level. But to me, it's like such a testament to his greatness, because to put it simply, how many

guys that we consider to be top seven, eight, nine players in the NBA are, are not supreme athletes. None of them, except for Steph. He's the one guy who overcame what, and what's crazy is compared to other humans, he's a freak athlete, like literally a freak athlete with great size. Like he's probably what, 98th percentile for men on planet Earth and height. But it just doesn't matter because in the NBA, they're all like that, right? But yeah, I have him at number two. Number one, deserving, in my opinion, Janus, unbelievable, relentless rim pressure. I think he's the best passing wing in the league other than LeBron and Luca. Defensive versatility, his ability to protect the rim as a primary rim protector

and pick and roll, while also devastating teams as the low man guarding the weakside corner and blowing up plays behind Brooke Lopez and his ability to switch out onto most of the wings in the league. And he actually does okay on guards as well. I believe that that in combination with just the way that his game translates to this phase and the fact that as the level of physicality increases, his advantages increase, as it becomes more and more like football

and a little bit less like basketball, the only weakness you can really, you can really attack with him is his over-the-top shot making. And he's actually regressing a little bit in that regard. But it's just kind of like the Anthony Davis thing. Like they have Chris Middleton, although Chris Middleton just received an MRI and is going to have to, like that. We haven't talked about that and we'll probably get into it, Carson, the next time we talk when we start focusing more on the playoffs. But that Chris Middleton knee injury is very significant because, you know, kind of coming into that Celtics win the other like a week or so ago, we were kind of you in Milwaukee as kind of separating themselves. And then they tailed off a little bit and now Chris Middleton's hurt. And now things. feel more open than they've ever felt in the NBA,

which is kind of why everyone's kind of coming back around towards Boston, because it's like they're the most talented team. But the reality of the basketball predicament is, is Janice does have Chris Middleton. He does have Drew Holiday. He does have Joe Ingalls. And so they don't need him to be an over-the-top shot maker in order to succeed. And so even if you want to look at him in the face and say,

yeah, well, I'm better than you at this specific thing, within the context of team basketball on the bucks, in the way that they cover for his weaknesses, nobody in the NBA impacts winning on both ends of the floor the way Janus says right now. I think that you're absolutely right. And there's a couple key differences, in my opinion, between this Janus

and the version of Janus that we could see exploited, right? Like we saw teams that were built similarly to Boston to stop Janus with these great variety of wing defenders who you could build the wall with and you could really challenge him. We saw it in Toronto and they beat him and we saw it in Miami and they beat him. And then Boston beat him, but not really. I mean, without Middleton going seven, Yonis was unstoppable for many stretches of that series.

And the keys are his playmaking development. And I agree with you, the addition of like a Drew Holiday presence. And now you can't really even say that that inability as a perimeter shotmaker holds him back from being number one when he is so physically dominant, very good as a playmaker. And I think right up there for the best defensive player alive and so versatile on that end. It's like the guy walks into 31, 12, and 6 efficiently and will wreck the game defensively. It's really, really tough to say that anybody else is better than that, has a higher baseline than that because of the just physical imposition and the defensive floor and ceiling that he has every single night. So, Yonis to me also has to be number one. Yeah, so one last thing I want to shout out with Janus before we get out of here.

He he's kind of figuring out the pacing himself elements now too. This has always been one of the most underrated parts of LeBron James's career. And he gets criticized a lot for it. And it makes sense because it's like, yeah, like if you're voting for MVP and he's kind of mailing it in on two thirds of the nights. And, you know, so like Janus in 2020 is just attacking every game like it's his last game. game, you know, I get that within the context of awards. But what part of the genius there for LeBron is he's like, dude, I got a two month grind ahead of me, you know, and that two month grind, I'm going to need to be at my best physically. And I think Janus, like, I love the way he

approached this season. He kind of had like a baseline gear, which was still arguably the best player in the world during the first two-thirds of the season. And then here in the last third, he's like, all right, guys, time to pick it up a little bit. And he's been good. good. Like, he's just been utterly bludgeoning teams really ever since. And, and I think that's a testament to just how he's kind of grown as he's become more experienced. But that's all we have for today. Guys, shout out to Carson. Thanks for coming by to chat through the list. We are going to be back tomorrow morning breaking down this Friday night slate. And then we'll be back on Sunday evening with the great Colin Coward. And then we'll get into some stuff on Monday breaking in the

playing games. And then, hey, from there, from Tuesday, we're going every night. until the NBA finals when we'll start having fewer games. But I appreciate you guys rocking with us, and we will see you tomorrow morning. The volume. Another podcast from some SNL, late-night comedy guy, not quite.

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