The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Hoops Tonight - Top 25 NBA Players: Anthony Edwards SKY-HIGH CEILING, SGA & Thunder have ARRIVED

Episode Date: September 3, 2024

Jason Timpf continues ranking his Top 25 NBA players with Anthony Edwards and Shai Gilgeous-Alexander. Jason discusses Anthony Edwards' rise to superstardom with the Minnesota Timberwolves and shares why he expects Ant to get even better following the Wolves' loss to Luka Doncic and the Dallas Mavericks in the Western Conference Finals. Next, Jason breaks down why SGA is one of the most dangerous playmakers in the NBA for the Oklahoma City Thunder right next to Luka and Nikola Jokic. The show ends with Jason answering listener questions during an NBA Mailbag segment including why he ranked Anthony Edwards over Jayson Tatum following the Boston Celtics' championship season. Timeline: 4:00 - Introduction 10:00 - #5: Anthony Edwards 39:00 - #4: Shai Gilgeous-Alexander 58:00 - NBA Mailbag (Timestamps may vary based on advertisements.) #Volume #Herd Follow Jason Timpf on social: https://twitter.com/_JasonLT https://www.instagram.com/jtimpf15/See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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NFL Plus premium offer available only to new and former NFL Plus subscribers. Additional NFL plus premium terms at NFL.com slash terms. All right, welcome to Hoops Tonight here at the volume. I hope all you guys had an incredible weekend. We're getting into our top five, the final tier of our player rankings today with number five and number four. And then everyone's really pissed off about who I have at number five. So we're going to be doing some mailbag questions centered around that and a little bit of debate in the tail end of the show. You guys know the drill before we get started.

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And the last minute at least, keep dropping mailbag questions in the comments. If you disagree with these rankings, in any way, shape, or form, leave your case for it in the comments, and we'll debate it at the tail end of these shows. All right, let's talk some basketball So as we head into the final tier of this list, I have this tier listed.

It's a little complicated because I have this tier titled Perennial MVP candidates. I believe these five players will have at least two top five MVP finishes in the next three seasons, which is something I don't think the rest of this list is going to do. Everybody I have from 6 to 11, I don't think you're going to see multiple top 5 MVP finishes in the next three seasons. seasons from that group of guys. But at the same time, I do see a drop off from number four to number five. So the guy I've had number five, which is Anthony Edwards, is kind of like a tweener for me because one of the many reasons we're going to get into it. But one of the reasons why I had Antisiza had is because I do believe he's going to be a perennial MVP candidate and the

guys below him, I don't believe, will be. But at the same time, I do think the guy that I have at number four, there's a little bit of a gap between him and Ant at this point. So like, if you want to call it your top tier super duper star tier of players, that's going to be one through four. But my perennial MVP candidates here is going to be one through five, which we're starting today with number five. We had a couple people that were confused by the criteria, which I went over extensively in our first video. The one that had Kyrie Irving in it was number 25 and number 24. If you scroll back on the feed, I did like a 10, 15 minute kind of explanation of how we do this. The way I see it, there are three different ways to rank.

You can rank players like just who's the best basketball player today. Like we got to play basketball game right now. Who are the best basketball players in the world? Everyone's healthy. Everyone's at the top of their game. Just who's the best? That's one way to look at it, right? But it's kind of an unrealistic way to look at it because you never get to win a Larry O'Brien by just playing a basketball game tomorrow. You win a Larry O'Brien by going from October all the way to June, right? The second way to look at it is bragging rights. This is what I did. the last couple of years with my list. It was more of like a, just a representation of who had the best season.

Like, it was more of like an awards kind of thing. Like, let's give recognition to who played the best basketball in the last 12 months, right? I've done this list. This is my third time doing this list since I got with the volume. The first two times we did it, that was kind of what it was more like. It was more of like a bragging rights type of list, right? But that has flaws, right? because as soon as you pass out the Larry O'Brien trophy in mid-June,

it's like, now we're starting over again. Now let's look forward. And so I have tweaked it to this third kind of format, which is what we're using this year, which is like, if we were just doing a draft of all the players in the NBA for a season that starts October 1st for training camp, and goes all the way through mid-June for the NBA finals, who is the best player that brings me the most overall winning impact?

regular season kind of like durability and greatness combined with the playoff translatability, like how well their game translates to the playoffs, but also I have to build a team around them from scratch in this scenario. And so versatility plays a role at that point. And so all of those things are kind of wrapped up in like this theoretical, basically like a theoretical fantasy draft, right? For a season that involves everything from October to June. That's the way I'm looking at this particular list. So, like, there are a lot of people that it's like, no way Anthony Edwards is top five. And it's like, okay, well, let's talk.

Is he top five in bragging rights? I don't know. He had a pretty impressive season last year, but I'd have to look at that again. Is he top five in a vacuum for like a game that starts tomorrow? Like, no, I'm taking other players over him. I've seen people be like, there's no way Ant should be over Steph. And it's like, yeah, like, if I have an NBA finals game that I got to play tomorrow, I think I'd rather have Steph.

you know, I'd rather have LeBron. There's a lot of guys that I would rather have for right now. Like, even a guy like Jason Tatum, like for a game that's tomorrow, I might just barely rather have Tatum, but that's not the purpose of this list. The purpose of this list is October to June, like kind of a fantasy draft kind of concept. I thought that was just kind of the way to best capture everything that you need

from a player for an actual NBA season. Because at the end of the day, that's what this is. This is an actual NBA season that's about to start. They're going to hand out an actual NBA season. Larry O'Brien trophy. And the way they're going to hand it out is they're going to give it to the team that wins four playoff series that are based off seating based on how they perform over an 82 game sample. That's how you get the Larry O'Brien trophy.

And so that's the way I want to use kind of like our format in terms of player rankings as we move forward, at least for this year. Who knows? Maybe I'll have some massive change of heart by next year. But that's what we're looking at. So without any further ado, number five, Anthony Edwards. Last year, 79 games played. This is back-to-back seasons playing 79 games.

25.6 points per game. One of the things you'll notice, too, is Ants Leap kind of took place in the postseason run. So his regular season numbers are still really good, but relatively pedestrian compared to the way he performed in the postseason and the way that his peers performed in the postseason. But 26 points per game, 5.4 rebounds per game, 5.1 assists per game. He's one of only seven players in the entire NBA last year to average at least 25, 5, and 5 in at least 70 games played. in terms of just production over a long NBA season. He's in some rare company there. 1.8 stocks per game.

He finished seventh in MVP voting at age 22. The next guy I have on this list is a young guard, Shegilded as Alexander, and he didn't get his first MVP vote until he was 24. So that goes to show you just like, in terms of how ahead of schedule aunt is. Now, mind you, he's not a better team at age 22 than Shay was. But he's had a lot of success earlier than most of his peers do, right?

Shooting splits. percent from the field, 36% from three, 84% from the line. That comes out to 52% in effective field goal percentage, but 58% in true shooting, which is totally respectable. He's increased his scoring volume and efficiency every season of his career to this point. He also just increased his assist total, again, every year of his career, up to 5.1 as a career high, while dropping his turnovers year over year. He had a little stat to kind of demonstrate that. He had 12 games with at least eight assists this year. That's double what he had in the previous season. He had only six. Shooting numbers per synergy. Just 0.9, 4 points per jump shot. Not a great jump shooting season,

but again, it really seemed to take off in that postseason run. We'll get a little bit deeper into that here in a few minutes. And it was kind of, he kind of had a similar type of season to Jason Tatum. He was really good off the catch. 1.16 points per jump shot. When he was unguarded 1.58 points per catch and shoot jump shot. That's 53% field goal percentage, 79% weighted for threes, which is insane. Very, very good off ball catch and shoot type of player. But similar to Jason Tatum had a rough off the dribble, regular season, just 0.88 points per shot off the dribble, just 35% overall, just 44% weighted for threes. He also takes a lot of like jab step face-up jump shots. He took 105 of them this year and got 0.95 points per

shot. I'm not even going to get into the playoff numbers until we kind of look at that in totality here in a few minutes. Shot 44% on floaters, about one and a half attempts per game. 63% at the rim, which is awesome for a guard in really good volume. He made 3.7 shots in the restricted area per game. That was the most in the league among guards or any players, for that matter, that are 6'5 or smaller. And one of the things you got to remember there is that's with Rudy Gobert clogging everything up in the paint. And that's, you know, that became a major issue in the Dallas series, which we're going to talk about in a little bit. But for him to be basically the highest volume, small guard or smaller NBA player in the

anything below 6-5, 6-5 or shorter to be in the paint as much as he was given his circumstances, like to have a guy that really can't catch and finish around the rim to kind of clog things up, allowing opposing teams to really jank things up for their offense. Like, I thought that was really impressive. Play-type data per synergy, 990 pick and roll. So he just barely missed our high-volume list by 10 reps. He would have ranked eighth on that list had he had those additional 10 reps. 1.06 points per possession including passes that's in the 80th percentile.

He ran 469 ISOs for 469 points. You guys can do the math on what that efficiency is. That ranked 16th out of 24 players on our high volume list. Really good post-up season, though. 102 post-ups, 1.17 points per possession. That's in the 83rd percentile. When he likes his matchup, he'll just dribble the ball up the side of the floor. Doesn't really matter right side or left side.

He definitely likes that left side of the floor, so he can dribble in his left hand for that right shoulder fade. That's like his preferred side. But he'll bring the ball up the floor. And if he likes his matchup, he'll just wave everybody through. And like, it's so funny, you'll see Gobert come over sometimes to like try to set a screen for him. And it's like, dude, I'm posting up. Like, get the hell out of here. And like he'll take that kind of cleared side and he'll just kind of sit in that high hesitation.

And if he likes his separation going over his right shoulder, he loves to go to that right shoulder fade. But he can also fade over his left shoulder. You also seem to make aggressive moves with his left shoulder to go into more like hooks and floaters kinds of things. He'll draw some vows that way as well. But really, really impressive post-up season for a guard. That turned into a reliable direction for him to go in the postseason as well. Already at age 22, one of the most efficient high-volume ball handlers in the league. Again, 1,661-361.35 points in total, including passes. That's all. pick and rolls, isos, and post-ups, 1.05 points per possession on massive volume for a 22-year-old on a team that kind of can have some issues on the offensive end because of all of their defensive-minded personnel.

There are a lot of people comparing Tatum and Ant, and we're going to get a lot into that when we get into the mailbag. And it's like, it's a little bit different playing with Drew Holiday, Derek White, and Jalen Brown, and Chris Sop's Porzingis, and Al Horford, all guys that can play both ends of the floor at a high level, than it is playing with Jaden McDaniels, who's a defensive specialist, Rudy Gobert, who's a defensive specialist, Nikiel Alexander Walker, who's a defensive specialist, Mike Conley, who's an offensive specialist,

and Carl Anthony Towns, who's an offensive specialist. Like, it's a completely fundamentally different challenge to operate in that setting. And again, with all those circumstances, with all those defensive-minded personnel, that most good teams are just comfortable conceding catches to, both on the role for Rudy or on the perimeter for Jaden, to get in massive volume 1.05 points per possession,

that's really impressive shot creation. And all of those numbers pale in comparison to the player that Anthony Edwards became when he got to the postseason. And to be clear, he has consistently become this guy in the postseason. And finished his last Western Conference Finals game at just 22 years old. At that point, he had played in 26 career playoff games. And in 26 career playoff games, he's averaging 28 points, six rebounds and six assists on 60% true shooting.

22 years old, 26 games under his belt at those averages. That's insane. And the most impressive part is he has consistently shot his jump shot, especially off the dribble really well in the postseason. And that's really the fundamental kind of like genesis of what makes Ant such an exciting player to build around. In terms of guards, I think you got to go all the way back at like, man, I can't, like even with Dwayne Wade, he just wasn't the shooter that aunt is, but like true downhill force combined with elite pull-up shooting as a counter.

That's just a really rare duo. And you don't see it a lot in the NBA at all. It's why it's why I really like players like Jaden or excuse me like Jalen Williams for instance with Oklahoma City. When I see players that have like legitimate like guys are on their heels because they're worried about getting beat off the dribble. But at the same time like he can just settle into that high hesitation. pull-up jump shot or a quick step-back or a quick dribble combination and hit it at a really high rate. Like that's super exciting and that's Ant Superpower. He's like the best at getting to the rim among players below 6-6 and he is an elite pull-up shooter in the playoff setting. And again, like his jump shot is, it's continued to be deadly in a pretty large sample at this point. Like, first of all, he did it in the postseason before. He was 1.15 points per jump shot in 2022, 1.02 points per jump shot in 2020, including 1.09 on pull-ups, which is really good. This Western Conference finals run 1.10 points per jump shot on volume. He took 184 jump shots in

total, took 151 pull-up jump shots, shot 43% on them and shot so many threes that it amounted to 1.08 points per pull-up jump shot. That's like insanely good. He also took 14 face-up jumpers, hit 43% of those, but because most of them were, or threes, it amounted to 1.29 points per shot attempt. Like, he just deadly. And then he continued it into the Olympics. He took 69 jump shots with Team USA through the five exhibitions in Olympics, in Olympics play, made 30 of them.

That's 1.14 points per jump shot. 1.13 points per pull-up jump shot. That's insane. Five for nine on face-up jump shots, four of which were threes, that amounts to 1.5,6 points per shot. This is an extended run of deadly jump shooting from a player who's also arguably the best athlete in the league. And that was the real thing that stood out to me in that playoff run was he proved to be basically unguardable one-on-one. Like he got 179 post-ups in ISOs, including passes in the Western Conference Finals run.

That's strictly in the playoffs. It got 1.09 points per possession, including passes. That's insane. I want to get a little bit further into that concept because he ended up running into some issues against Dallas. And we're going to talk about that extensively here in a minute. But I want to get, before we get to that part, I want to talk about the defense event. The defensive end is definitely a mixed back. Clearly a result of energy usage, in my opinion.

Like, he's a A plus ISO defender. When you are like matched up with one-on-one, that's just a problem. He's arguably the quickest lateral player lateral movement guy in the league. like he's got he's gonna beat you to a spot you're not gonna dribble around him and he's built like a fire hydrant so you're not going through him he's got the athleticism to contest so like you just you just don't even try to score on aunt and ISO unless you're like yokech right like unless you're just way way bigger than him right because it's you're probably just gonna get ripped and he's gonna go down the other end and get a dunk but he's mostly a bad screen navigator to be clear he can do it and he can do it really well um but the good possessions are are just too far, too few and far between. Sorry, I'm butchering the expression there.

He's a big target, like he's a big body, so he's a big target for guys to actually set screens on it. When he gets picked, he basically just dies on it. But to be clear, it is mostly an energy and effort thing.

And the reason why we know that is, if you go, guys, I really watched it and did a whole film session on it when we were in the postseason run. So you can actually find it if you go back into our feed.

But during the Minnesota comeback in game seven against Denver, Jamal Murray didn't score a single point and Anthony Edwards literally had him in jail. And like, I think, I think, I think aunt ended up talking shit after the game saying he had him in handcuffs and he's right. Like, Jamal, like, straight up didn't score a single point. So, like, and it's just on him. Ball pressure, chasing him over the top of screens, getting deflections, like aunt was all over him.

So we know it's there. Like, we know it's in there. But then he turned around in the next series and did a really bad job against Kyrie Irving and many times looked lazy. and was dying on screens. And I actually called that out before the series. I was like, okay, you want Kyrie, that's great. But, like, you know, Kyrie's really damn good, just like Jamal Murray.

And if you don't bring Game 7 intensity from the start, like Kyrie will cook your ass. And guess what? Kyrie cooked him in game one, right? So, like my guess is just like every other star of his ilk, which is like the supreme athlete archetype. I think eventually will become a great defender. I think just his competitiveness, his hatred of losing,

that scar tissue that I always talked about that builds up on your psyche as a result of tough losses, I think Ant will become an elite defender, but it's worth mentioning at this point that he's kind of a mixed bag. It's a lot of good and it's a lot of bad. Elite ISO defender, bad screen navigator, inconsistent effort, that kind of stuff. I think we're a little ways away from Ant being, I think he's going to continue to take leaps every year, but we're still a ways from where he needs to be on the defensive end of the floor. Let's talk about the Dallas series, right? So Ann had a pretty damn impressive playoff run offensively

outside of a couple of stretches and it really started to come to the surface at the tail end of the Denver series and then Dallas kind of piggybacked off that game plan and kind of took it to a greater extent in that Western Conference final series. And the main thing there was just bringing the Biggs up to the level of the screen

and really getting aggressive as Ant was coming off of ball screens to basically force him to get rid of the ball. and there's a bunch of different factors here. Some of this was like Denver was running a little bit more passive coverages in the early part of the series, and Ant was able to get ahead of steam. And after he got ahead of steam, Yokic just couldn't keep him from the rim, right? But like, it's hard to get ahead of steam to actually get your momentum going if that runway is taken away by you coming off the screen and just running into another defender right away.

And so Dallas just took this to the next level. And we saw him struggle a little bit in that late portion, middle-late portion of the Denver series. And to two-a-t's credit, he made plays. He made some big plays in Game 7. He kind of cracked through to just enough to win that series and get into the next series. But Dallas basically doubled down on that game playing. Guard-guard screens, he was getting doubled a lot of the time. In actual Big Man screens, Gafford and Lively were both coming way out and forcing Ant to get rid of the basketball.

And like it's two factors. Ant wasn't doing enough of a job trying to counter that, and I'm going to get into some specifics in a minute. And the second factor of it was Gobert. Like, you're just running a lot of four on threes, and there are four on threes with Jada McDaniels and Rudy Gobert on the floor. Sometimes Nikiel Alexander Walker on the floor and sometimes Kyle Anderson on the floor. And like, those are just really limited offensive players. Specifically, Gobert is often the decision maker in those situations. Like, you, like Dallas just knew they could get, because what do you, what's the fear? If you send your big,

to the level of the screen. What you're scared of is they're big getting behind. Because if he gets behind, you can just throw it up to him, and all the really good role men in the league are going to score that every single time or make a pass out of it every single time. And like, Gobert will occasionally make a decent read in a four on three, but he's certainly not great at it. And he's definitely one of the worst pick and roll,

like catch and finish in traffic guys that we have in the league. And so it just, it was one of those things where, like, I thought it specifically with pick and roll. There wasn't a whole lot that Ant could do. Now, where I do get really critical of Ant is it led to him being passive. Instead of, like, getting rid of the ball and then immediately trying to become a threat again

to make something else happen, or, hey, maybe don't attack with a ball screen anymore. Like, one of the things that really bothered me about Ant's play in that specific series is he didn't look confident going against Derek Jones Jr. Now, Derek Jones Jr. is a very good athlete, and so I understand why, like, it's not the same type of advantage as he had in earlier series.

like KCP is just way too small, not athletic enough to hang with him. Like Christian Brown was big and strong enough to kind of hang with Ant. He had some good reps against Ant, but Christian Brown also has his offensive limitations. And, you know, when you go from KCP to Christian Brown, you take some damage on the defensive end, right? If you're Denver. But Derek Jones Jr., like, for as athletic as he is, and was a lot bigger and stronger than him. And so I wanted to see Ant like do more of what he did in the regular season, like bring the ball up the right side of the floor and like clear the side and like just go to work against Derek Jones Jr.

Like, go to work and try to bring a second defender in a clear straight-up double team on a cleared side, see if you can't get some better opportunities there. Rather than doing it in the ball screens where, like, it was really easy for Denver, for Dallas, excuse me, to make him get rid of the ball and then just run really basic rotations on the weak side to make sure that it was like Jada McDaniels trying to knock down a three or or Rudy Gobert trying to like catch and finish in traffic, which wasn't working very well. Like, that's really the main thing is like, I think he, only took something like 33 shots in game one and game two of that series.

And I think he only had like 40 points, if I remember correctly. Like that was the real disappointing part. It was Ant faced an aggressive coverage that made him get rid of the ball. And so he was like, fine. And he just got rid of the ball. And then he backed off. Now, I don't think people realize, like, he really did respond to that well. Over the last three games of the Western Conference finals,

Anthony Edwards averaged 28 points, nine rebounds and eight assists. That's right back to like top tier superstar. level production in those last three games of the series. But at that point, I thought it was too late. They went down 02 on the road. And as we all know, Luka went in there in game five and just landed the executing blow in that first quarter. And then the series was basically over.

But, you know, what really bothers me is that playoff run is disgust as though Ant got exposed. Like so many people, it was so interesting to watch as a fan as like, as we headed into that Western Conference final series, there was all this hype around Ant. And it was like, oh my gosh, rise of the next great superstar, this is going to be crazy. And then like, he had a couple of bad games in a series against a much more established superstar, who is the second best player in the league, in my opinion, in Luca Donchich, and had some issues. And it's like, okay, like, I get it. He had some issues. But like, everyone immediately jumped off the bandwagon.

and it's not even close to ready. Like this guy's like got exposed. And it's like, did he get exposed? Because he had a couple of really bad games. And that sort of thing happens. Like, guess what? Like the majority of stars have bad playoff games. And as we like kind of zoom out, it's like, okay, wait, he just played a 16 game

playoff run where he made it to the conference finals, where he swept a team with Kevin Durant, Devin Booker, and Bradley Beal on it, where he eliminated the defending champs led by the best player in the world where he like single-handedly removed their second best player from the game in the second half during their run with what he could do on the defensive end. And he wrapped up his playoff run averaging 28 points, seven rebounds and seven assists on 60% true shooting. And everyone's talking about how he's exposed. Like, I don't get that.

That's not being exposed. That's just a tiny taste of a dominant basketball player starting to realize his potential, which is literally astronomical. So that takes us to the big question here. Why do I have Ant this high? And I have five reasons for you guys. I'll go through them quick. Then we'll move on to our next player.

Reason number one, it fits my tiers perfectly. I think Ant is a perennial MVP candidate. He averages so far in his four-year NBA career, 76 games played per season. He played 79 games in each of the last two years. So he's basically the most available superstar in the league right now. I think he's going to average somewhere around 28, 6, and 6th, on 60% true shooting this year.

I think he's going to get there. I think he's going to translate that jump shooting to the regular season sample this year. His team is set up for regular season success. They're not as talented as the Boston's and Denver's of the world, but they're young, they're athletic, they're huge on the front line.

And that's going to keep in a lot of close games where he can push his team over the top. So I think they're going to be a top four seed. He already finished seventh in MVP voting last year before he took his leap. So I think Ant's going to finish top five in MVP voting. and I think he's going to continue to do so for the next five years or so.

So that was reason number one. He kind of fit my tears perfectly as a perennial MVP candidate. Reason number two, he's a 23-year-old high motor athlete. Again, this is not about a series that starts tomorrow. Guys like Anthony Edwards and Jason Tatum, they're going to be much closer to 11 on this list for a series that starts tomorrow. I think there are better guys.

If everyone's healthy and we're already there, there are guys that I would take over them. But both Jason Tatum and Anthony Edwards are safe bets to give you 75 plus games of superstar production this year. And the guys below them on this list are just not a safe bet for that. And so that was the second reason for me. Like he's available to play every night. He's a freaky athletic player who's going to apply a ton of rim pressure

and have bursts of defensive dominance mixed in with obviously his sketchy defense. But all that other stuff is stuff that older guys struggle with over 82 games. And I just don't have to worry about that with A. I don't have to worry. Like, there's going to be a game this year where I'm watching LeBron on a Tuesday in February, and I'm like, LeBron's straight up, like, just not trying. Like, that's going to happen. Whereas, like, with Ant, like, that'll happen, but it'll be like maybe three or four times the entire season.

Like, he's young, he's got a ton of energy. That brings a lot of value in the 82 game sample. Reason number three, he has a proven playoff superpower already. He has a lightning quick first step that can beat just about anybody off the dribble, combined with a deadly pull-up jumper. That's the push and pull, right? When you're a defensive player, are you on your toes getting ready to contest

or on your heels getting ready to retreat? And Ant's one of the rare guys that puts you in a position where you have to make a decision there and neither decision is a great decision. Most teams are going to back off and try to make Ant shoot. We have a pretty large sample size here now

of Ant just being a flat-out deadly pull-up jump shooter. So that makes him basically impossible to guard one-on-one. Again, as we looked at his struggles, his struggles that he had in the postseason, and they stemmed mainly from team-related issues combined with his passivity after Dallas, like straight up double-teamed him everywhere. And Denver did the same thing.

Like they handled him with aggressive coverages. It wasn't like he struggled to have success in a one-on-one setting. It's just he, and it's his fault too, but him and the team couldn't solve the puzzle of the four-on-threes on the back end when Aunt would draw that second defender. That's not just on Ant. It's also on Ant, but it's not just on Ant. Number four, he will in all likelihood experience the largest individual improvement on this list, other than maybe Wemby, by the time the playoffs come back around next April. Again, as I've mentioned many times, this list is not about a series that starts tomorrow.

If you can get through the regular season in a position to succeed, which we know Ant will, then it's about a playoff series that starts in April. That is seven and a half months away. That's a lot of time for Ant to continue this path where he is improving exponentially. And then lastly, number five, he is already a proven playoff riser. His last three regular seasons, 24, 5, and 5 on 57% true shooting. His last three post seasons, 28, 6, and 6 on 60% true shooting. Now, for the record, this is relatively common in NBA history among the dominant athlete

archetype, the guys that are like truly transcendently great athletes. The playoffs become more intense, more physical, right? All of a sudden, that's where the supreme athletes can really flex their muscles. And in many cases, actually further the gap between them and their peers. And so that, I don't think it's hard to figure out, like his scoring volume and efficiency goes up, his rebounding goes up, his playmaking goes up. It's all just a product to the fact that he's a supreme athlete in a setting that is advantageous for Supreme Athletes. So to put it simply, he's one of the most available and productive

regular season players in the NBA, who's a proven playoff riser, and who's likely to be a substantially better player by the time we get to April. And when you factor that, I also view him as a perennial MVP candidate, which is literally the name of this tier, and it got the number five spot for me going into this season.

Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth.

Listen to Superhuman on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The story I've told myself about love or relationships can then shape my behavior, and that can lead me to sabotage the possibility of connection. This Mental Health Awareness Month, tune into the podcast deeply well with Debbie Brown and explore the journey of healing, self-discovery, and returning to yourself. We explore higher consciousness, emotional well-being, and the practices that help you find clarity, peace, and self-mastery in a world that can feel overwhelming.

The world is becoming lonelier. not becoming more social and connected. We're becoming more individualized, but we actually meet people in connection. If you've been searching for a soft place to land while doing the work to become whole, this podcast is for you to hear more. Listen to deeply well with Debbie Brown from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Hey, I'm Jordan Arano. You might know me as that loud guy who yells out, help on the internet. Help! Somebody! Please! But there's so much more to me than that.

I'm an actor. I'm a comedian, and recently, I've become quite the helper myself. And on my new podcast, Hope I'm a Hippocrat, I'll be changing lives, helping people in need with my sage advice and thoughtful solutions. Sike! I'm a comedian! I'm not qualified to give good advice. Join me and my comedian friends as we riff rant and recommend some of the most legally dubious advice. to man. If I'm calling you, even if you're on your phone, let it ring twice. One ring is too scary. Cream a chicken suit. Hey, cream a chicken suit. This is Help from a Hypocrat. The worst advice from the dumbest people you know. Listen to Help from Hypocrite as part of the Mike Cultura podcast network available on the IHart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Hey, it's Edwin Castro, also known as Castro 1021. And I'm Kunky, his best friend and business manager. And we've got a new show called The 1021 Podcast. I'm taking you behind the scenes on how I became one of Twitch's most popular streamers. We also love sports. And with the World Cup right around the corner, we'll be breaking down the biggest storylines ahead of the big tournament here in the USA. Listen to the 1021 podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,

or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, I'm Deanna Maria Riva, actress, mother, lover, and a Gen X woman walking through life one hot flash and hormonal crying jag at a time. You ladies know what I mean. I'll bet you a perimenopausal chin here you do. So let's talk about it. Join me on my new podcast. How hard can it be with Deanna Maria Riva, where I call on my Gen X squads from Ohio to Hollywood as we navigate midlife's most fantastic BS. All of a sudden, I'd had hanginess happening on my own.

I was like, what the hell is that? was married when I had her, so I didn't even consider how empty that Ness was going to be. Mood swings, night sweats, fupas, sex drive. Wait, what sex? Dating at 45. How high can it be? How can it be? Getting naked at 50 with the new guy. That one's kind of hard, well, that's lighting. They say we can't polish a turd, but we're sure going to try. So let's get blunt with laughs, tears, or tears of laughter, and dive into it, unfiltered and unbothered and ask, how hard can it be? I cannot believe I'm about to say this out loud in public. to How Hard Can It Be with Deanna Maria Riva

as part of My Cultura Podcast Network available on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Number four, Shea Gildes Alexander, speaking of perennial MVP candidates, he's coming off of back-to-back seasons with top five MVP finishes, finished second last year.

Played 75 games, 30 points per game, six rebounds, six assists per game, 2.9 stocks per game. Only Dier and Fox had more steals per game than Shea Gildes Alexander last year. SGA was one of only three players in the entire NBA to average at least 30 points per game and at least six assists per game.

You guys can guess who the other two are Luca Donchich and Janice Antenacumpo. Shooting splits. 54% from the field, 35% from three, 87% from the line. That comes out to 57% effective field goal percentage weighted for threes. 64% waited for free throws with true shooting percentage.

Only three players in the entire league last year had a usage rate of at least 30%, meaning they were of the top tier of high usage players in the league, while also having a true shooting percentage of at least 62%. Janice and Joel and Bede were the other two. So basically among guards, the only guy, among primary perimeter players, the only guy that was that efficient at that level of usage.

Shooting numbers per synergy. 1.03 points per jump shot, 1.05 off the catch, only took 74 off the catch jump shots, season was a little iffy of a spot-up player. You know, Shea's so good in the other areas that it didn't play as much of a role for me, but in terms of versatility, Shea kind of tends a little closer to the Luca Donchitz, like I'm not sure he could play in like a real equal opportunity type of system. Not as bad as Luca, but he's kind of in that direction a little bit.

And it just stems from the fact that he's like not a great offball player at this point in his career. Now, that said, who knows what's going to happen in the long run, like Chet can get way better, and Jalen Williams, you guys know how much I believe in him. So, like, we're going to learn more about Shea as an offball player over the next couple years, and I'm just curious to see how that part of his game develops, but it's definitely not a strength of his right now. Interestingly enough, 1.24 points per shot when he was unguarded on catch and shoots,

just 0.55 when he was guarded. I thought that was interesting because he has a real set shot kind of low to the ground when he's in catch-and-shoot situations. So it kind of makes some sense that he would struggle when he's contested. 1.03 points per shot off the dribble, though. 730 attempts, which is insane volume. 47% and field goal percentage,

52% weighted for threes. Only Kevin Durant and Devin Booker had a higher field goal percentage on pull-up jump shots among players to attempt at least 500. So that's some rare company that he's in there. And when you wait it for threes, out of the 16 players to attempt at least 500 pull-up jump shots,

Shea finished sixth in efficiency. So one of the best pull-up jump shooters in the league. He also got 1.06 points per face-up jumper. Only took about a little under one per game, though, so not a huge part of his game, but he does occasionally do that. 54% on floaters, although only 59 attempts the season. And then 64% at the rim, which is awesome for a guard. An awesome volume, too, he attempted 6.3 shot attempts in the restricted area per game,

which is outstanding. You know, what's really fascinating to me about Shea with the way, that he gets to the rim because like Shea is different than a guy like aunt where like the way aunt gets to the rim is like he's just hitting the gap like he just sees an opening and he shoots it and he's so damn fast that there's just nothing you can do right so damn fast so damn strong you can't knock him off his line like it's very much a power rim pressure kind of concept shea gets to the rim a totally different way it's all about a couple it's a couple of different things that combine into like a very difficult player to guard in space.

So like, first of all, it's the fear of the pull-up jump shot. As we mentioned, among players to shoot at least 500, the only guys to actually hit a higher percentage of them on a field goal percentage basis are KD and Devin Booker. So like, as you're guarding Shea, you're constantly worried, as we talked about earlier about being on your toes or being on your heels, you're constantly worried on your toes that Shea's about to rise into a pull of jump shot. That keeps you off balance.

That combined with change of pace. Shea isn't particularly fast. but he changes his speed from stop to go to stop to go multiple times on the same drive, which will catch you as a defender in between steps or where you step out of your stance just barely as you kind of rise up to maybe contest a shot, and then he'll shoot the gap and get around you. Protected dribble combinations. This is something that's always been really fascinating to me about Shea.

He'll sit in what I call a high hesitation, which is basically just a bridge move, right? So like if I go through the legs and I end up in this in my left hand and I hesitate in the high hesitation dribble, from there I can rise up into a jump shot, I can cross back over, I can go behind the back, or I can push forward or I can throw it in and out. Like I can chain any dribble combination together from that high hesitation. The second piece of it is dribbling in contact. So like a lot of guys can dribble through cones, but then they run into physical defense and then they lose control of basketball. That was one of the major issues with Jalen Brown over the last few years in the posties. before this year where he kind of had a more successful season in that regard. Shea Gildjus Alexander is constantly contacted you. He's got his like shoulder on you and he's

dribbling and making those those changes of direction while dealing with contact, which is a rare ability. And so what that all amounts to, because he can get in that high hesitation and have you out of position because you're worried about that pull-up jump shot, and because he can chain multiple changes of direction and multiple moves in the same dribble drive, and because he can handle the contact, he's basically just going to dribble at you until you cut him off, and then he's going to fake the pull-up jump shot, and he's going to find a way to counter back the other way, and he's just going to keep countering back and forth until you fuck up. And then once you fuck up, he's past you, and he's all the way at the rim. And when he gets to the room, he's got such good

size and length. I mean, he's 6-6 with a 6-11 wingspan that he can just kind of finish in traffic, and he gets good finishing angles there, right? And obviously benefits from the 5-out spacing and the Chet-Holmgren factor as well, getting to the rim. But again, for a guy that doesn't necessarily have, like, peak athletic traits to get to the rim as often as he does is super impressive. And to me, it all is just like straight skill, like fear of that pull-up jump shot, always being able to daisy chain multiple dribble combinations together, even in traffic, and also having that like ability to deal with contact. And when you piece all of that together, it just makes him really, really damn hard to guard. Play type data, purse energy. Pick and roll.

Well, Shea was the second best high-volume pick-and-roll player in the league last year. 1.16 points per possession, including passes that ranked second out of the 15 players to log at least 1,000 reps. He shot-few-gall-goes on his own shot attempts in pick-and-roll. So if Shay shot anything in pick-and-roll had more than half, more than half of them went in, which is insane. As you know, number one on that list was Tyrese Halliburton. But Shea, second-best pick-and-roll player in the league last year, super impressive. ISO. 1.12 points per possession on 656 reps. That is massive volume. Only Luca Donchich had more ISO reps and to be precise 80 additional ones. It goes to show you like 656 for Shea

feels insane and Luca had 80 more ISOs than that. He was fourth on our high volume list. Out of the 24 players to run at least 250 ISO's, Shea's efficiency ranked fourth. And then also to really interesting post-up season, similar to what we were talking about with Anthony Edwards, 144 post-ups for 170 points, 1.18 points per possession. That is in the 83rd percentile. So in total, for those of you guys who are doing the math, 1,891 possessions of half-court shot creation. That's all post-ups, ISOs, and pick-and-rolls, including passes. 1.15 points per possession. That's insane. I think Shea is the third best shot creator in the league right now. So when it comes strictly down to the concept of generating quality shots for your team in the half court,

only Luca Donchich and Nicola Yokic are better than Shea, in my opinion, at this point in time. And you can combine that with him being a really useful defensive player. He actually holds up pretty well on the ball, although he doesn't log too many reps there. Oklahoma City has really, really talented perimeter defensive personnel so they can kind of keep him off of that type of role. can be overpowered by some bigger forwards for sure. That's to be expected by most guards. And he's a little on the thin side. But Shea is a super useful help side defender.

He has really good length for the position, as we mentioned earlier, 6-6 with a 6-11 wingspan. He's particularly good at swiping over the top of players as they gather in traffic and digging down. It's like he comes from off the ball and he just gets a lot of deflections and blocks just using his length actually closer to the baseline, which is unique among guards.

It's like in situations where Shea ends up as the low man, meaning where he's the guy that's kind of in charge of the big man rolling to the basket as well as the corner, he gets a lot of deflections and makes a lot of plays, gets a lot of stops in those situations, probably better than most guards in the league, and certainly better than most of the star guards that are in the league. She has turned him into a legitimate two-way player at this point, and that's what makes him a bona fide top-tier superstar.

He's a top-three offensive engine in the league, a legit two-way player who's a net positive on the defensive end of the floor, and he's durable and dependably great on a night-to-night basis in the regular season, which is obviously going to put you very high on a list like that. And I thought his first postseason run as a legit number one went pretty well all things considered. Average 30.7 rebound, six assists, totally respectable 58% true shooting. It's obviously down. It ran into a couple of issues.

He failed to reach his regular season free throw attempt average in six of the 10 games. that's to be expected. You're going to get a tighter whistle. He had some games where it was like the regular season. He was getting every call, but several of the games where he wasn't getting the same whistle. He missed some driving kick reads. That was kind of a big problem for the entire Oklahoma City roster. But you can say that about basically every player in the league aside from a small handful. Like the Yokic Luca LeBron tier, like those guys that are elite passers at the top of the league, they never miss a read. It's extremely rare that they'll miss a read.

But pretty much everyone else misses reads on occasion. And so, Shea ran into some of that, but it's not too. too hard to believe. And they had Dallas on the ropes. Like, had Shea not fouled PJ Washington in the left corner of Game 6, they probably get a Game 7 at home, and they're probably favored to win that game.

Now, obviously, Luka, Game 7 on the road, anything can happen, but they're probably favored to win that game. So, like, that's how close they were to being a Western Conference Finals team. And Shea had some real moments, too. Like, he had the game winner in Game 1 against New Orleans, that little A&1 he got, I think it was against C.J. McCollum in the

mid-range. He had 15 points in the final 14 minutes of game six against Dallas, just kept hitting tough pull-up jumper after tough pull-up jumper. The kind of big playoff moment you kind of imagined was Shea, considering his skill set, as you just imagine him hitting a ton of really tough pull-up jumpers, and he did. And he had what could have been the game-winning assist of driving lob to Chad Holmgren, but he just made that one mistake. Just came one play short and ended up fouling PJ Washington in the left corner, and they got eliminated in the second round. Now, I don't think Shea will ever be what we'd consider to be a playoff riser the way that Ant is, just because he's so damn efficient in the regular season that it's actually

kind of impossible to replicate in the playoffs. And also because he relies on the whistle a little bit. That said, I was really impressed by Shea, and I thought he held up better than it could have been. There are versions of that, the heliocentric, you know, foul grifting, pull-up shooter. There are versions of that that doesn't translate well to the playoffs, but Shea has so much versatility in the way that he attacks. No two possessions look alike. He's so many different dribble combinations, so many different spots on the floor where he can be a shopmaker that he and guys like Luca just have more resilience than the James Hardin types where it's like all step back three's left hand drives and and you know, that's pretty much it,

right? Like there's definitely enough variety in there to keep some resiliency. So in summary, Shea is a top three offensive engine. He is a reliable and dependably great regular season Foundation. He's not the most versatile offensive player, as we talked about earlier. He struggles a bit off the ball, but not enough to move him down this list substantially, and I am curious to see how that develops over the next few years as his teammates get better. And to his credit, he is a versatile defensive player. I think you can find a bunch of useful defensive roles for him on many different types of rosters, which gives, in this case, a theoretical GM like myself in this theoretical draft, gives me some leeway in terms of the types of defensive looks that I can

build around him. And then lastly, his game translates, his game translates well to the playoff setting. So that makes him a clear cut top tier superstar and currently the fourth best player in the NBA to start a full season with, in my opinion. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your

podcasts. The story I've told myself about love or relationships can then shape my behavior, and that can lead me to sabotage the possibility of connection. This Mental Health Awareness Month, tune into the podcast deeply well with Debbie Brown. and explore the journey of healing, self-discovery, and returning to yourself. We explore higher consciousness, emotional well-being, and the practices that help you find clarity, peace, and self-mastery in a world that can feel overwhelming. The world is becoming lonelier.

We're not becoming more social and connected. We're becoming more individualized, but we actually meet people in connection. If you've been searching for a soft place to land while doing the work to become whole. This podcast is for you to hear more. Listen to deeply well with Debbie Brown from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Hey, it's Edwin Castro, also known as Castro 1021. And I'm Conky, his best friend and business manager. And we've got a new show called The 1021 Podcast. I'm taking you behind the scenes on how I became one of Twitch's most popular streamers.

We also love sports. And with the World Cup right around the corner, we'll be breaking down the biggest storylines ahead of the big tournament here in the USA. Listen to the 1021 podcast on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, I'm Jared Adano. You might know me as that loud guy who yells out,

help on the internet. Help! Somebody! Please! But there's so much more to me than me. I'm an actor. I'm a comedian, and recently I've become quite the helper myself. And on my new podcast, Hope from a Hypocrite, I'll be changing lives, helping people in need with my sage advice and thoughtful solutions.

Sike, I'm a comedian. I'm not qualified to give good advice. Join me and my comedian friends as we riff rant and recommend some of the most legally dubious advice known to man. If I'm calling you, even if you're on your phone, Let it ring twice. One ring is too scary. Cream of chicken suit.

Hey, cream a chicken suit. This is Help from a Hypocrite, the worst advice from the dumbest people you know. Listen to Help from Hypocrite as part of the Mike Coutura Podcast Network available on the IHart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, I'm Diana Maria Riva, actress, mother, lover, and a Gen X woman walking through life one hot flash

and hormonal crying jag at a time. You ladies know what I mean. I'll bet you a perimenopausal chin here you do. So let's talk about it. Join me on my new podcast. How Hard Can It Be with the Adamani Arriva, where I call on my Gen X squads from Ohio to Hollywood as we navigate Midlife's most fantastic BS.

All of a sudden, I'd had hanginess happening on my own. I was like, what the hell is that? I was married when I had her, so I didn't even consider how empty that nest was going to be. Mood swings, night sweats, fupas, sex drive, wait, what sex? Dating at 45. How hard can it be? Getting naked at 50 with the new guy. That one's kind of hard, you know?

Well, that's lighting. They say we can't polish a turd, but we're sure going to try. So let's get blunt with laughs, tears, or tears of laughter, and dive into it, unfiltered and unbothered and ask, how hard can it be? I cannot believe I'm about to say this out loud in public. Listen to How Hard Can It Be with Diana Maria Riva as part of my Cultura Podcast Network available on the IHeart Radio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. All right, let's get to the mailback. Lots of people mad about Ant being this high. So let's get into some of your guys's comments. First, kind of a big picture one, and then I really, really good, well-thought-out basketball case. I'm going to read you guys. I don't understand how a dude has one conference finals,

has one playoff conference run, and he leapfrogs a dude that's been to five conference finals, two NBA finals, and has a chance. championship so far. Remember, this list is not about credit. Tatum has certainly had a more productive and celebrated NBA career so far. If we were using last year's criteria where it was mostly about credit, Tatum's going to be well over Ant, right? But that's just not the way that this particular list works. I'm talking about guys to build a team around for this coming season. I'm saying that I like my chances to win the title building from scratch a little bit more with Ant

than I do with Tatum. All of that said, Ant made my perennial MVP candidate list, but I do view him a little bit, I view a gap between four and five, meaning like I view one through four as like the top tier superstars. And going from five to 11, I think those guys are kind of bunched up. So I don't see much of a gap between five and 11. So to be clear, I'm not saying I think Ant is much better than Tatum. I think he's barely better than Tatum, even though Atteum, even though Ant is all the way up at number five. We're going to get into some of the basketball specifics in this next question. I'm sorry, I can't understand Ant over Tatum. Ant has the exact same key weakness that Tatum does, less than elite efficiency as a jump shooter, but still shoots

them at volume. But he has that weakness as a guard. Tatum was 27, 8 and 5 on 60% true shooting last year, turnover rate of 8.6%. It was 26, 5, and 5 on 58% true shooting turnover rate of 10%. So Tatum put up superior offensive numbers despite having lower usage than Ant does. And then defensively, as much as Ant is an elite perimeter defender, Tatum is unquestionably a higher impact defensive player overall. This is mainly because he offers legitimate secondary rim protection, which was exactly why the Celtics were able to successfully shut down some, the same Mavs attack that the

Wolves vaunted defense couldn't figure out. Tatum's size and athleticism offers unique versatility when scheming on defense in general that Ant does not. But on top of all that, Tatum is likely the superior perimeter defender as well. Think about that game this year where SGA was cooking Derek White and Drew Holiday because they didn't have the length to stop him, then Tatum switched on to him for the fourth quarter and shut off the faucet. Think about the Nets series two years ago where Tatum clamped Durant and was getting legit blocks on his jumper. I highly doubt Anthony Edwards can contain longer perimeter stars like that at the same level Tatum can. It's just not, it's just Tatum isn't asked to be on the perimeter night in and night out.

The Celtics also had eight more wins in the regular season than the wolves and took home the chip. So Tatum is a better player on both ends of the floor, higher efficiency, more experienced in every aspect, plays as many games, more versatile for scheming on both ends because of his size and strength, and just coming off of a title, which Ant has never won. How can Ant then be the better player to build around for 24? 25. You've admitted multiple times during Ant's Hot Street last year that he was becoming one of your favorite players in the league. I think you've got to own up to a little bias coming into play here due to Ant being such a charismatic dog and a fun player to watch. Respect everything you do on this

channel. My experience of the NBA has been much richer for listening to your content. That is probably the best comment that I've received in terms of making a basketball case since I started doing this list. So I sincerely appreciate you taking the time to write that all out. That's damn good case. You did a very good job. That's how you argue about basketball. You don't just call someone a jackass and say they're wrong. You tell them why. And I really appreciate you taking the time to do that. That's what makes this sort of thing fun. These are the kinds of debates that I love having. When I was a plane in college and we were done at practice and we were taking our shoes off and stuff just sitting down on the sidelines talking shit or on the bus or on the plane or at the

restaurant or whatever, these are the kinds of conversations we would have. And, you know, obviously we weren't as much into the statistical weeds as I am now. But that was the kind of conversations that we had, and that's what I enjoy doing as a basketball fan. Also, before we get to Ant, one of the things that I thought was really fascinating is you talked about how Tadem's secondary rim protection is how they shut down the Mavs, and specifically putting Tatum on the center. And you put that the Wolves vaunted defense couldn't figure it out. The reason why I'm singling this out first is I don't think it has anything to do with Ant. I was really fascinated after that series, after watching the finals, that Minnesota didn't try that. That Minnesota

sort of didn't try putting, just like putting Gobert on PJ Washington or on Derek Jones, Jr. And letting someone like cat guard the center so that they, but the thing is this cat can't guard in space. So it would have to be like Jaden. But then again, it's like, I don't think go, I don't think Gafford and Gafford and Lively didn't get enough offensive rebounds in the finals. And I'd be curious to see like if Jaden McDaniels was there and you like just tried switching

that, maybe with a bigger look, with kind of. Kyle Anderson on the floor and you put like Kyle Anderson on Luca or maybe Jaden on Luca and Kyle Anderson on the center and tried switching that with Gobert roaming off PJ Washington. I'm just curious like, I'm not curious why we didn't see it because it was kind of a new look. Like this concept of like putting your centers on opposing week above the break shooters and guarding their center with a like a Ford. That's still a relatively new NBA concept. And so give the credit to Joe Mazur.

for conceptualizing just a really good defensive game plan against Dallas. But there is some truth to the fact that you have to have a big forward like Tatum that can one guard centers and switch on to the ball handler in order for that look to make sense. But there's another side of that too. You also have to have your on-ball guy be big enough. Like it only works if Jalen Brown can also switch on to centers because you're going to switch that Lucas center pick and roll in that case. And so I know we're not talking about aunt at this point,

but like just strictly talking about defensive game planning, that is a really interesting point. Like that concept of putting your forward on the opposing center and putting your center on their weakest above the break shooter, I think we're going to see a lot more of that in the NBA in the coming years because it's Copycat League and Joe Missoula leaned hard into it. Most of the season too, like you go back in the regular season, Tatum's guarding centers a lot.

And so like I think that it's going to be just a really interesting concept to see over the next couple years as more teams try to adapt that. but there is a personnel element to it that extends beyond one player. You have to have like a group of personnel that is capable of executing that type of coverage. On that note, let's get into some of your points. One, you were talking about his regular season production. I've said in this episode, and obviously you wrote this comment before I wrote this episode, but Ansela took place in the postseason run.

He just turned 23. So like that's the way this is going to work is going to be much more of like a like Ant is at a different phase of his career where he's improving exponentially on a year-over-year basis, right? And he's a different player now than he was in the regular season. He's been a flat-out deadly shooter his entire postseason career and just had a really good summer shooting the basketball through both his playoff run and with Team USA. So like I agree with you that last year in the regular season, Ant had the same issue as Tatum, which was high volume, inefficient pull-up jump shooting. but Ant seems to be kicking that issue and shooting at a really high rate

in a large sample size. And again, who knows what's going to happen in the long run? Maybe Ant will take a huge downturn in shooting and maybe Tatum will take a huge upswing. But I am betting, I am saying that I believe Ant's jump shooting is real. He's also a great free throw shooter.

He shot 84% on free throws last year. That is always a strong indicator of shooting touch. And then lastly, he gets better looks than everyone else because his first step is so crazy that has everyone on their heels. So like, I think a big part of why he shoots so well is he just gets a lot of really good looks. So to put it simply, like, I think Ant is a more useful offensive player in a vacuum because he's a substantially better athlete with a much quicker first step who's also a better shooter both off the catch and off the dribble. So he's

giving me more rim pressure and more jump shooting to counter it. So like building from scratch as a GM, I think that's easier for me to work with. Now, get into Tatum a little bit. Tatum is definitely a better passer. But he's not an elite passer either. He's just better than Ant. And that carries a lot of value in the Celtics roster where they're surrounded by all these really good players, right? But this list implies, I'm not getting Tatum, Jalen Brown, Derek White, Drew Holiday, Khrsingsings, and Al Horford. Like, I'm likely getting, in this scenario where we're drafting, chances are all the teams are going to be relatively even with talent. And so chances are, instead of Tatum playing with five other great two-way players,

he's probably going to play with maybe like one really great two-way two-way player, and probably like two offensive specialists, and then probably like two defensive specialists, right? Like, it's going to be much more of like a mix of different types of talent, which at that point, Tatum's lack of offensive high end becomes more of a problem and his playmaking becomes less valuable in that specific regard. And that's really the thing is like Tatum is kind of hard to build around from scratch because he's kind of like a B minus to B plus on everything when it comes to the offensive end of the floor. Right.

Like his durability on offense is impressive. He's always available and he shoots enough threes and gets to the foul line enough that he can maintain efficiency and volume. That's why he's always going to be like 27 points per game, 60% true shooting. 27 points per game, 60% true shooting. But he doesn't have an elite first step. He's got good size for the position, but he's not, like, physically dominant on offense the way guys like Kauai Leonard or LeBron James are. He's a good shooter. Like, I genuinely think he's a good shooter who's just in a bad slump.

Like, and I've said that many times. But he's certainly not a great shooter. And he's a good passer, but he's certainly not a great passer. So, like, he doesn't really have an A plus offensive trait. And so, like, when I have aunt where I have this real A plus offensive trait, which is like, among players below 6, 6, 6, he's the best at getting to the rim. definitely gets to the rim more than Tatum, despite significantly inferior spacing. And when I combine that with him also being a much better jump shooting threat, I just think that that top end ability is something that I can build around easier

as a kind of a vacuum draft sort of situation where I'm not going to have like massive talent advantages the way that Tatum does within Boston. I do think Tatum is a better defensive player. You broke it down at length. We went into it a little bit earlier. But I do expect that gap to continue to strengthen. rink as the years go by. Again, as we know, Ant does have all-world defensive potential that we do see in spurts,

like we saw with Jamal Murray in Game 7, but it's definitely too inconsistent at this point. I also definitely agree with you that Tatum is much more versatile defensively. I can do more with him. I can plug him into different types of roles. So if you were making the case for Tatum over Ant, like if I, like if you were making a list and you had Tatum at 5 and Ant at 7, then that would be the angle I would take. Like that defensive angle is the one that makes a lot of sense to me,

and you're making a really good case. Comparing the Celtics to the wolves is pointless, in my opinion. One, the record is thrown off a little bit by the fact that the Western Conference just was significantly more talented. I can't remember them to stat off the top of my head, but the West kicked the shit out of the Eastern Conference and head-to-head matchups this year. And then the Celtics just had a lot more talent.

Like, again, like, Tatum was surrounded by five legitimate two-way players. If you want to say Porzingis and Horford are somewhat one-dimensional defensively because Horford's not as big and Corzenghis can't guard in space as well, I'll give you that, but at least four awesome two-way players around him, right? So like, or at least three, I should say, between Jalen Brown, Drew Holiday and in Derek White, most teams in the league don't have that type of two-way talent. Like that's like the other team that does is like Oklahoma City, right? And that's the team that you're looking at.

But most teams don't have that luxury. Most teams don't have the luxury of like every guy can shoot well, pass well, and defend well. That's really rare, you know? And like to put it simply, like if you put Anthony Edwards on that Celtics team, he's getting to the rim a dozen times a game. Or you're going to have to double him every time at the rim where he's going to generate a bunch of driving kick opportunities. like Anthony Edwards with real true five out spacing where everyone can shoot would be a terrifying thing to deal with for any defense. And like that's the thing.

When you look at that Wolves roster, like they had elite defensive personnel. That's a good roster, really big on the front line, some really interesting, talented players. But everyone's got flaws, right? Like everyone there, it's like Mike Connolly is a really interesting offensive player to help kind of grease the wheels and run pick and roll with Rudy Gobert and to spot up shoes. and to hit his textbook, you know, kind of famous right-handed floater that he makes. And Carl Anthony Towns was going to have his games where he gets 26 points. But like neither of those guys are truly useful defensive players. And Jaden McDaniels might be the best perimeter defender in the league.

I don't necessarily think I'd pick him, but he's in the top tier. And Rudy Gober is not, he's certainly in the top tier of defensive players in the league, is in the top five of all around defensive talent in the league. but both of those guys have some real limitations on the offensive end of the floor. Like you're, the concept that the Celtics, they even just simply through this lens. Like, the game plan for Dallas, against Dallas for Boston, was to concede wide open above the break threes to iffy shooters like Derek Jones

or PJ Washington. If you tried that against Boston, they would light you on fire because all of them can shoot so well. So like, again, like I, again, I still have Tatum at some. you guys know how much I value Tatum and his defensive versatility and how well he fits in with that group. But like guys, that Celtics roster is like other than like true superstar laden rosters, like the 2017 Warriors or like the 2013 Heat or like the 01 Lakers,

aside from the teams that just have insane top end talent, like that's damn near a perfect roster that Brad Stevens has put together. And it makes basketball a lot easier for guys like Tatum than it does for other guys around the league. The last bit, I will freely admit that I, as a fan of basketball, like Ant more than I like Jason Tateau. He's quickly becoming one of my favorite players. That's just, that's just, I'm just being honest with you. I don't go into it with the preconceived notion. I watch the games, and there are certain players that I really like and certain players

that don't like as much. It's all just normal. It's the same way you guys feel when you watch. You guys probably just have different players that you like or dislike, right? but to be clear, I try very hard to fight my biases on these lists, and you kind of just have to take my word for it that I'm being objective. I understand that some of you guys don't believe me, and then I'll never be able to change your mind, but I really am trying. I really am trying the best I can to be objective. But to be clear, that comment was the best and most well-thought-out one that

I've seen since we started this list, so I really appreciate you taking the time to write that down. Hey, Jason, love the show in the ranking segment. Tatum should be way higher, specifically over Shea. He's the most versatile player in the league right now. During this playoff run, he was the primary offensive initiator while drawing the toughest defensive assignment. He finished the playoff run leading his team in points, rebounds, assists against Bam, Mobley, and double teams from Indiana and Dallas. On defense, he can guard one through five and through everyone's offensive game plan off by guarding centers. Against Dallas specifically, he shut down the lob threat completely. His shooting slump was brutal, but he still contributed at the highest level.

Shea is a more efficient score, but that's really it. He takes the fourth assignment on defense and can operate, can only operate with the ball in his hands. It seems like your ranking is a lot on projection, but Shea is only a year younger than Tatum, and the bodies of work aren't comparable. Tatum has won more playoff series than Shea has won playoff games. That's a crazy stat. He's gone toe to toe with Janice, Embed, Butler, Durant, Curry, LeBron,

and Luca in huge games and come out on top consistently. Shea's best playoff run was a second round exit, and the only series he's won was against a Pelican's team without Zion. His team is poised to have a lot of success in these next few years, but if OKC and Boston beat in the finals, I'll take Tatum's experience and resume every time. So I'm not going to get into some of the specifics with Tatum because I just did that with the previous comment.

But to really simply respond, I think Shea is in like a completely different stratosphere than Tatum as an offensive player, specifically as an offensive engine, while also being a legitimately good two-way player. So to be honest, I never even considered Tatum to be over SGA. I just never gave that a real look. What's wild is you said ant over Tatum mid-play.

off run. Then you came back after he was eliminated and said you were caught in the moment that Tatum is better right now, but you wouldn't be surprised if Ant passes him even next season. Then Boston wins a ring and now Ant is back over Tatum. You do realize Ant hasn't done anything Tatum hasn't already done even when he was Ant's age. So I understand that this can be confusing and I kind of talked about this a little bit earlier in the show. But like, talking about who's better is all about what criteria we're using. Like if I was just sitting here and I was like, well, I think that LeBron's better than Tatum. Like, what do you mean?

Like, for tomorrow? Like, because, like, yeah, I probably agree. But, like, for starting a season tomorrow, like a full season, it's a completely different conversation, right? Like, when someone says who's better at basketball, it's usually one of three things, right? Like, it's, of which I went over at the beginning of the show. Best for a game or series who starts tomorrow.

Best for an entire season from start to finish. Or the bragging. rights piece, right? Like, that's the bragging rights piece is tough, right? That's what a lot of Celtics fans are playing right now. That's what a lot of the people have been done doing in these comments. Like, Tatum just won the title. Why isn't he higher? Okay, so that's bragging rights. You're saying, regardless of what all the team's circumstances and other things going on are, Tatum has the trophy, therefore he should be number one. That's bragging rights, right? Best for a game that starts tomorrow? Totally different conversation. Best for an entire season that

goes from start to finish, totally different conversation. Adding the modifier that we're doing a whole draft from scratch, that's a different conversation, right? And so, like, yeah, at the moment when Aunt lost. And I'll even extend it to today. If I had to start a playoff series tomorrow, I'm giving Tatum a slight edge over Ant. And that's with me giving him grace because of his poor jump shooting.

Like, that's me thinking that he would shoot better if he was like the number one option on the team and everything was flowing through him, which by the way he just did in the playoffs and didn't shoot very well. But giving him that grace, yeah, I'd give Tatum a slight edge over Ant right now, but I think that by next April,

Ant's going to pass him. And I also think that Ant in the regular season is a really useful offensive engine. And I think specifically, if I was building a roster from scratch, Ant's A plus offensive trait, which is elite downhill athleticism combined with his pull-up shooting,

which has been far more deadly than Jason Tatum, especially as of late, I want, I want Ant. And so, again, that's where these conversations get a little bit tougher. Bragging rights, yeah, it's Tatum. Best for a game tomorrow. Yeah, it's Tatum. But that's not the purpose of this particular list.

And that's why I broke down the criteria at the beginning. That's why I've re-emphasized and gone over the criteria like 35 times over the course of this list, because I think that's where most of the gap in our perspective has come from. Two more. A.D. Shea and Ant over Tatum is hilarious. Only one of those players has proven that they can be the best player on a team and win a championship. Tatum being a team player and all about winning while taking a hit to his counting stats is exactly why he'd be the perfect player to build around. He's already shown he can average 30 in a season.

Dude just played point guard on offense and guarded the other team's center on defense. So first of all, like this is where it gets tricky with the bragging rights thing. And this is why I don't do bragging rights anymore. We do bragging rights. I'm going to do a video. So like after this week, next week on Monday, I'm going to do one video where I rank like the top. five bragging rights guys from last year. So we're going to do it.

But like for the purpose of this list, I don't like to do that anymore. I think that we made some mistakes. One of the biggest mistakes was last year I had Luca at 10 because he missed the playoffs. So for bragging rights, I had to have him lower. But then, like, he went and kicked everyone's ass this year

and got all the way to the playoffs, or all the way to the finals. So, like, that's where that type of list has a certain amount of flaw to it, right? Let's put it this way. This is why the bragging rights thing is silly. Tatum won the trophy, and he just played the worst playoff basketball of his prime by far. Like, he wasn't close to as good as he was in 2022 when he lost.

So that's what's kind of ridiculous. Like, to put it, here's another angle for it. Like, you know who else won a title and didn't win finals MVP? Anthony Davis. Anthony Davis's two-way play in the 2020 playoffs was infinitely more impressive than Jason Tatum. He was better than Tatum on both ends of the floor. in that playoff run, by a wide margin. So that's why I think just pointing to this particular playoff run

and them winning the trophy is just a weak case to put Tatum over people for. Last question. Why can't the Lakers make the playoffs outright with two top 10 players? That's weird. I get versions of this question all the time. It's really this simple. The Lakers were a hell of a lot better than their record would lead you to believe because they had one bad stretch over about three weeks in late December.

early January. They were one of the best teams in the league to start the year, and they were one of the best teams in the league to end the year. Also, the Western Conference is super, super deep with talent. If you actually just look through the Western Conference standings, there's just not much of a gap in that middle portion. All of them are just kind of jammed up on each other. Like, there's just more good teams in the West. When there are more good teams in the West, it's going to be more competitive. It's going to be harder to jockey for playoff positioning. It's going to be harder to put up bigger win totals. That's just, that's just to be expected. The West head to head kicked the shit out of the Eastern Conference this year.

Even Boston, for as good as they were, they were just three and five in their eight matchups against the top four seeds in the Western Conference. The Western Conference was just an entirely different battle. Other little known fact, like, if you take out that three and ten stretch, the Lakers just look like an awesome team. Like, again, awesome to start the year, won the in-season tournament. From January 7th on, they were like one of the top four records in the league. I can't remember exactly off the top of my head.

I'll pull it up in a minute. but like they were one of the top records in the league. They had 17 wins, according to cleaning the glass, against teams that were in the top 10 in point differential. The only team that had that many wins other than the Lakers was Boston. So like the Lakers, and then they went and played the defending champs and outplayed them the majority of the series. They just got gamed by Jamal Murray twice, which ended up costing them the series.

They went blow for blow with the team that, hoisted the trophy last year. So, like, again, like, were the, I didn't think the Lakers were a top-tier championship contender. I had, I had Denver one, and I had Boston two, and then I had a gap, and then I had everyone else. And I think I had the Lakers sixth. I had them, like, fifth or sixth. So, no, I don't think the Lakers were going to win the title.

I don't think the Lakers were going to beat Boston. I didn't think the Lakers were going to beat Denver. I picked them to lose that series. But I do think the Lakers were a hell of a lot better than their, than their, than their, than their position in the standings would lead you to believe. And quite frankly, like for LeBron and AD to be what I considered to be the sixth best team in the league, to be the sixth best team in the league with LeBron and AD on the roster,

that goes to show you they overcame a lot. That was with the limitation of Darvindham as the coach. That was with the lack of two-way role players. Like, honestly, I thought LeBron and AD did more than pulling their weight. And when people say, like, why didn't they make the playoffs outright, despite the fact that LeBron and AD are top 10 players? And it's like, did you watch them play? They were awesome every night. They were literally awesome all the time.

And the issue was some rotation stuff in the middle of the season. And then the fact that they literally do not have, like, their starting five is Austin Reeves, D. Lo and Rui. Good players. But it's poorly balanced. There's nobody in, none of those guys are above average defensive players. that's the problem. And so, like, they were constantly trying to overcome that. But by the way, I pulled up the number over their final 46 games of the year,

which was from January 7th on, they were 30 and 16. That was the fourth best record in the league. Like, that was more than half the season sample size. They were one of the best offenses in the league. So, like, a lot of people, like, to be clear, like if you were under the impression that the Lakers were a bad basketball team, that's just not accurate. That's just not accurate to what was actually happening last year.

Were they a top-tier championship contender? No. But they were firmly in the mix in that next group. That was below them. All right, guys, that is all I have for today. As always, I sincerely appreciate you for sporting the show. Don't forget to argue and tell me how I'm wrong. In the comments, make a basketball case.

You have a much higher chance of getting picked in the comments. We'll be back on Wednesday, the number three and number two. I'll see you guys then. The volume. The NFL seasons right around the corner. We'll be breaking down all the off-season storylines on the Colin Cowherd podcast. My best takes, guests like my buddy Nick Wright. Check out the Colin Coward podcast, part of the Volume Network.

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