The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Hoops Tonight - Top 25 Players in the NBA: Why Kawhi Leonard and Devin Booker are NOT in the top 10

Episode Date: August 5, 2023

Jason Timpf continues his ranking of the top 25 players in the NBA by revealing Nos. 12 and 11. Devin Booker of the Phoenix Suns, and Kawhi Leonard of the Los Angeles Clippers just miss joining the top 10. #Volume #HerdSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Each episode, we pick a year, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. With our friends, fellow comedians, and favorite authors. Like Mark Lamont Hill on the 80s. 84 was a wild year. It was a wild year. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

The Volume. All right, welcome to Hoops Tonight here at The Volume. Happy Friday, everybody. I hope all of you guys had an incredible week. We are also live on Amp. So if you're listening on YouTube or on the podcast feeds, don't forget that Amp is the very first place that you guys can get these shows. We are continuing our player rankings today with number 12 and number 11 before we go 10 through 1 over the course of the next. two weeks. You guys know the drill before we get started, subscribe to the volumes YouTube

channel so you don't miss any more of our videos. Follow me on Twitter at underscore Jason LT, so you guys don't miss any show announcements. And if for whatever reason you miss one of these videos and you can't get back over to YouTube to finish, don't forget you can find them wherever you get your podcast under hoops tonight. And last but at least, you guys have heard me talk about game time, the fastest growing ticketing app in the United States. Obviously it's a slow time for sports, although baseball fans out there know that it's increasingly hard to find your favorite team on television. So going to Game Time is actually one of the best ways to see Major League Baseball these days. However, it is concert season. And a lot of people are going around the country

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Again, enter your email and the code Hoops. That's H-O-O-P-S for $20 off. Terms apply. Download game time today. Last-minute tickets, lowest price guaranteed. All right, let's talk some basketball. starting with number 12, Devin Booker, finished the season averaging 28 points, five rebounds, and six assists per game, 60% true shooting, and then went up an obscene level from there in the playoffs,

34 points, five rebounds and seven assists on 69% true shooting through two rounds. Had one of the craziest pull-up jump-shooting hot streaks I've ever seen in my time watching basketball. In back-to-back home games, home wins against the DeVs. Denver Nuggets, he was 19 for 25 on pull-up jump shots, including six for 10 from three. Oh, and in the paint, he was 16 for 21 in those two games, meaning he averaged eight makes per game in the paint to go with the outrageous pull-up jump shooting. He did cool off in games five and six, shot just 12 for 32 from the field as they lost those last two games.

Kind of got their butts kicked, too. Average margin of victory for Denver in those last two games was 21 points. It's the weirdest thing about that series. Phoenix was both the only team that got two wins off of the Denver Nuggets and the team that got their ass kicked the most because outside of those two wins, they just got pretty much dominated. So it was kind of a strange playoff run from that perspective. But so I want to zoom out before we zoom back in on Devin Booker.

To me, I told you guys kind of coming in that there were tears. And to me, everybody from roughly about number 13 all the way to number 39, call it, with the 14 guys that I had that were kind of honorable mention. Those are all really close. The guys I have listed, I've listed based on who I think is better for sure, but there's small gaps between all of those guys. But from here on, from number 12 on, starting with Devin Booker, I believe these are the superstars in the NBA.

I view this as a very exclusive club that includes a top-tier regular season performance for a team, as well as a top-tier playoff performance for a team. team. I think there's only 12 of these guys in the entire MBA. But I thought Devin Booker this year cracked into that group. And I want to zoom in in exactly why so that you guys can see, because I do think there are some specific checkmarks that I look at for that superstar tier. And I think Devin Booker has officially hit those. Oh, and by the way, they're my one through 12. I do have those split into two tiers as well. So like one through three for me is like my top tier superstars. These are the guys that I think are just a small level above the rest of the

superstars. And then from 4 to 12, it's all very close. And you can actually make a case for any one of the guys from 4 to 12 to be above any of the other guys and totally would respect and understand if any of you guys disagreed with the order that I had in this stretch. But as I look kind of below Booker, I see a little bit of a drop-off. Like, Cheyieldess Alexander is insane, but he needs to build a playoff resume. He literally is not. played a play-to-playoff game as the number one option on his team. So I can't call him a superstar, right? Damien Lillard has only won two playoff games in the last four years and has missed the playoffs a couple times. So, like, it's hard for me to put him in that group until he kind of gets

back to the point where he's playing meaningful basketball. And then Anthony Edwards, who I had at 15, is just 21 years old and has only played in 11 playoff games himself and has never gotten out of the first round. So like, as we go up from Dame SGA and Ant, there's this clear elevation in regular season dominance and playoff dominance within the recent years. And so that's where I have that delineation there at number 12 with Devin Booker. He was one of only nine players in the regular season last year to average 27, 4 and 5. At least 27 points, 4 rebounds, and 5 assists, only 9 guys. Devin Booker has now played in 43 career playoff games all in the last three seasons.

And in those 43 playoff games, he's averaged 28 points, five rebounds, and 5 assists on 60% true shooting. That's a ridiculous resume for a 26-year-old shooting guard. So in my opinion, as you kind of zoom out on this three-year stretch in the regular season for three years now, he's 27, 5-5 on 59% true shooting. And in the playoffs, he's 28, 5-5 on 60% true shooting. So he actually has consistent regular season dominance, and he goes up a little bit of a level in the playoffs. So the last box there for being considered a legitimate superstar is, can he be the best player on a title team? And in my opinion, the answer is absolutely yes.

Because let's not forget that three years ago, a lesser version of Devin Booker was the very best player on a team that came two wins away from an NBA championship. You can talk all you want about that being the season after COVID and all the weird factors that were at play there. But you guys know how I feel about that kind of stuff. Everybody's dealing with the same circumstances.

A win is a win is a win. I do not believe in diminishing playoff success, regardless of the circumstances. I feel the same way about the bubble the year before that. I feel the same way about the lockout year. I just don't care. Like to me, everyone's got the same circumstances. A win is a win is a win. And the bottom line is it was two really close games too.

That kind of swung the outcome of that series. The sons were this close, and that was a lesser version of Devin Booker. So I absolutely think Devin Booker can be the best player. on a legitimate championship team. And I mean, on that team, his second best player is Chris Paul and his third best player is DeAndre Aten,

or maybe Mikhail Bridges, depending on who you ask. So I didn't actually think he had some sort of super team either. I think that you can easily, relatively easily build a championship quality roster around Devin Booker. And I actually have Kevin Durant above Devin Booker on the list this year,

but we'll see how it plays out. Devin Booker has a chance over the course of the season to demonstrate that he's a better player. And like I said, the gap between 4 and 12 is really non-existent in this group, and all those guys can be jumbled around in a bunch of different ways. But as we look at that superstar list, I think he's clearly at the bottom of that list, but I think he's clearly on the list.

Consistent regular season dominance, consistent playoff dominance, even going up a level, a clear pattern of winning basketball games for your team, and you get to be in the club if you do those things. That's just the way that I view it. Devin Buker has turned himself from a pure score into a really versatile offensive engine. The Sons scored 1.05 points per possession and pick and roll with Devin Booker this year. That was 74th percentile. He's actually become a very good passer out of pick and roll over the course of this season. That was one of the biggest things that stood out to me every time I watched the Sons this year,

was just how gifted he was at making the right play as he was coming off of ball screens. He was down in ISO situations in the regular season, down to 0.87 points per possession, kind of just fluky, missing a lot of shots. But he was great in the post, 1.1 points per possession, which was in the 69th percentile. His shot making was ridiculous, 47% on catch-and-shoot jumpers, 43% on pull-up jumpers. And he made 4.9 pull-up jumpers per game, which was second in the entire league against,

you guessed, at Kevin Durant in first place. He was 49% on runners in a really, really good mark of 68% in the restricted area, which for a two-guard is really, really good, although somewhat low volume, only 2.6 makes per game, which is in the middle of the pack for starting guards around the league. That's kind of like one of the biggest week. weaknesses, in my opinion in Phoenix's roster is they've got tons and tons of offensive skill, but they don't generate a lot of rim pressure. As a matter of fact, between Beal, KD, and Booker all

combined last year. I think they were right around like eight restricted area makes per game. I mean, I think the top tier guys in the league are averaging that by themselves. So they're not getting a ton of rim pressure from those guys. And that's going to be the interesting thing to look at with that team. But as we've seen with teams like Denver, if you're really good at everything else, you can win anyway. And so that will be the challenge for Phoenix this year. These are Devin Booker's ridiculous shooting percentages during this year's playoff run. 63% on catch-and-shoot jumpers, 51% on pull-up jumpers, 58% on floaters, and 71% at the rim. Legitimately one of the most accurate shot-making playoff runs I have ever seen in my time

covering the NBA, albeit only in two rounds. One of the key things in my opinion, opinion that has helped Devin Booker reach the superstar level. And we talked a little bit about this yesterday, especially when we were talking about Jamal Murray, or two days ago with Jamal Murray. He's actually committed to the defense event. And I think the tool that Devin Booker used to kind of reach this level is his competitiveness. Evan Booker is a freaky competitor. He talks a lot of shit.

He takes this stuff super personally. And I think that's kind of a need when it comes to winning basketball games at the highest level. And he has channeled that into just working. and committing on the defensive end of the floor. Now, he's not the quickest player or the most athletic player in the league, and he doesn't have great size. So even at that level of commitment,

he's just become more of like an average defensive player at his position. But again, so many of these stars, they're giving you a lot on one end and taking away on the other end, and it diminishes their overall winning impact. By becoming average on the defensive end, Devin Booker has made it so that his offensive impact can shine through for the basketball team. And not to mention, it sets an example when your stars are willing to

commit, that works its way down the roster and then other people defend. It also just flat out helps you win games to have another player on the floor that's at least average defensively at his position. He's become a very well-rounded player. He's a bona fide top tier three-level score, a very good playmaker and an average defensive player at his position. To me, that puts him in the superstar tier. We got 12 of them in the league. He's at the bottom of that list, but he's on the list, and that's a very big deal in my opinion. Moving on to number 11, Kauai Leonard. this is a player who at his peak, I genuinely believe, is a top five player in this league. He's going to be, I won't reveal it right now for the sake of the suspense, but I would either,

if I was just looking at healthy peaks, I'd have him at either four or five in this current field of superstars. I thought he demonstrated that pretty profoundly in the two playoff games he played this year before he got hurt. He's down at 11 because of health issues. end of story. Looking at his last three seasons, he looked great in a playoff run and then got hurt in the middle of a series, missed in a season entirely, and then looked great in a playoff run before getting hurt in the middle of a series. So it doesn't really matter how good you are if you're never able to actually complete a playoff run, which is why I have him down at number 11. But at his best, he is so clearly better than just about everybody in the league that I have to have him up at

11. I still think that there's all, let's just put it simply. There is a chance, not zero chance, probably a pretty decent chance, not a great chance, but a decent chance that Kauai can finish the season this year. If he does, he's a top five player. That flips all of the math and all of the way that we have to project this NBA season. So in my opinion, if we're factoring that in, you're a superstar, so I still have Kauai Leonard at the superstar level. This year he played in 52 games. A scoring volume was way down, 24 points per game, seven rebounds, four assists, but super efficient, 62% true shooting, off the charts. creation season, 1.14 points per possession of pick and roll, which is insane. That's 92nd percentile,

although somewhat low volume, only 445 possessions. 1.08 points per possession in ISO. Do you guys remember that list I had of the 25 players that I considered high volume ISO players running at least 250? Kauai came in on 8th at that list, at 8th with that list, at 1.08 points per possession. And then he was 1.12 points per possession in the post. There were 31 players in the NBA this year that ran at least 150 post-ups. Kauai came in at seventh on that list with 1.1, 2 points per possession. So still super, super versatile with his shot creation. He's, as we kind of zoom out from there, 62% true shooting, obviously low volume compared

to his peers, but in terms of actual shot-making efficiency, some top-tier stuff from Kauai this season, and then he had two incredibly dominant playoff games, 35.7 rebends and 6 assists on 67% true shooting, which, by the way, in the 2021 playoff run, before he got hurt. He was at 68% true shooting on 33 points per game for 11 games. So he's only played 13 playoff games in the last three seasons because of his injuries, but in those 13 playoff games, he's been off the charts good. And that's, again, why I keep talking about how I view his ceiling so high. But obviously, we've talked enough about his injuries to this point. So I want to kind of focus on why Kauai is such a dominant playoff player compared to his peers.

Because again, as we look at that, you know, averaging, what's that over two years, somewhere between 30 and 35 points per game, probably closer to 31, 32, right, because of the small volume this year. But like 32-ish points per game on 67 and a half percent true shooting, that's like way better than everybody. That's like Steph Curry stuff, right? That puts you in the very top tier in terms of offensive production, right? And we know that that's not fluky because we've seen Kauai do it as a finals MVP. and in long playoff stretches before that. So what is it about Kauai Leonard that makes him so freaking good in the NBA playoffs? I put it down to four things.

First of all, he has no shot making weaknesses. 48% on catch and shoot jumpers this year, 50% on pull-up jumpers, 46% on floaters, 60% on hooks out of the post and 65% at the rim. Those are all off-the-charts good percentages. If he gets to his spot, he's got a really good chance of making it. Secondly, he's one of the strongest players in the league at his position. We talked about this a lot with Anthony Edwards yesterday.

It's about the concept of getting to your spots. When you are physically strong, especially when you have a low center of gravity, meaning you have strength in your legs, that makes it so that when you fight for position anywhere on the basketball court, whether that's setting your man up for a screen, whether that's ducking into the post,

general calling for post position, just for an ISO if you're 15, 16 feet away from the basket, whether that's dealing with hand-checking in ISOs, dealing with hand-checking in pick-and-roll, putting your defender in jail in pick-and-roll, dislodging your defender when you're posting up on those back-down dribbles. Every single one of those things becomes infinitely easier when you have a strength advantage, particularly with a low center of gravity. And so, in my opinion, that's what gives Kauai the ability to get easy shots so frequently.

He's so good at getting to his spot. Now, again, we talked about this a little bit with the strong guys yesterday. that are more skilled than the big strong guys in the league. And Kwai has great touch for the record. Like he's got better touch than the Anthony Edwards and LeBron James comps that I used yesterday. But he probably has less touch than the top tier guys, right, in terms of scoring, right? Like he doesn't have the same touch as Steph Curry or Kevin Durant, Devin Booker. You know, those guys all probably have a little bit better touch than Kawhi Linder does in a vacuum.

But the difference is, is Kauai's always getting great looks, like fantastic looks, and so he hits them at an insanely high percentage. And to me, that comes down to that strength. The comp that I used, and we talked about this actually when we did our player rankings last year, but I'll do it again here. I look at Kauai's fadeaway jumper is the perfect example of this. The vast majority of guys who shoot fadeaway jumpers do it with their athleticism. Like even as we go back to Kobe and MJ, like they'd do a shoulder bump,

but most of their separation that they're getting on those fadeaway jumpers is just outrageous athleticism. Like Michael Jordan could do a drop step into a pivot fadeaway over his left shoulder and make it look so outrageously quick that the defender just didn't have a chance to get there. And so he's getting a good look every time. Kauai does it 100% with strength. And I think that's kind of one of his calling cards and what allows him to be so efficient shooting over both shoulders out of the post. He doesn't hit that shoulder and then fade.

He hits you hard with that shoulder and almost goes straight up and down. Go on to YouTube and just look up Quile Leonard highlights from any one of his big scoring games and just pay close attention to his turnaround fadeaways over both shoulders out of the post. He is not fading a dramatic amount. He is getting into your body with physicality and rising up for largely pretty straight up and down jump shots. and that's the difference because guys like MJ would shoot 50% on post-fadeaways with ridiculous fading athleticism. Kauai is shooting ridiculous percentages on post-fadeways by going straight up and down.

So again, he buys himself leeway with his touch just by virtue of him having such a ridiculous strong base and the footwork to get to his spots on any spot on the floor. So one, his ridiculous shot, to his strength compared to his peers. Third, he can impact the game at a very high level defensively. That always is a huge part of playoff winning impact. And then lastly, Kauai Leonard has worked really hard to become an above-average playmaker. He used to be flat out bad at it.

Kauai averaged 2.3 assists per game in San Antonio. He logged an eight-assist game just once in his entire time. There was a playoff game against Houston Rockets in 2017. He's done it 21 times since joining the Clippers. And has averaged five assists per game during his time in a Clippers jersey, which is perfectly fine. That's like right around where his peers are, right? Like most of the big scoring wings in the league are somewhere between four and a half

and five and a half assists per game. Like that, that's just what those guys average. So Kauai legitimately went from being a guy who was bad passing the basketball and not good at setting up shots for his teammates to perfectly fine at it. he took one of his biggest flaws and turned it into something that no longer hurts his game. This season, he was over a point per possession in every single type of pass out of pick and roll, out of ISO and in post-up situations. He also handled traps well, 1.29 points per possession when he was trapped in pick and roll.

And that happened almost once a game to him this year. And then he handled doubles out of the post super well, 1.1 points per possession, passing out of doubles in the post. So, like, obviously, like, it's, Kauai is, a super interesting example of an archetype of player that is more of a late bloomer right and we this is what makes jabari smith junior so exciting is like you're looking at these guys that come out of college and they have like maybe one thing that stands out as a skill like i remember early on kawai leonard showed some flashes of shooting ability jabari smith junior was actually a really good

shooter at auburn but like there's a lot of raw stuff outside of that like mostly a defensive player so was kawai you know, couldn't put the ball on the floor, neither could Kauai. Like those guys struggled in a lot of those areas. And then there's like two phases to their development when they get into the league. It's like the learning the skill piece, like just relentless reps in the gym by yourself with the trainer, working on your pull-up jump shot, working on your ball handling, working on all these different dribble combinations and footwork, right? But then there's the on-court reps part of it. And when it comes to making reads and becoming a decent passer, you just need a shit ton of five-on-five.

reps against NBA level competition. And so that's why when I look at guys like Kauai, like to go from 2.3 assists per game for his entire San Antonio career, which by the way, he was consistently in MVP conversations, won multiple defensive players of the year, if I remember correctly, and also was literally won a finals MVP, multiple long playoff runs, just was a dominant player in that run and was a bad passer. and he's taken that and turned it into something that actually helps his game a good amount now with the clippers. I think that's a testament to his work ethic and a good example looking forward when we look at really competitive,

really hardworking young forwards that have a lot of raw potential. And that's what I'm looking for with Jabari Smith Jr. in the future. But Kawhi Leonard, again, bona fide top five player in the league when he's healthy. and he's a bona fide top five player in the league when he's healthy. And obviously we have to factor in his health in this list, which is why I have him down at 11. But all I'm hoping is that we get to see Kauai finish the season healthy this year because I think the league is better when he's playing

because I think he's a lot of fun to watch. And I think he's a really good example for young basketball players on the things that they can work on to become better in every situation on the court. You guys know that's all I have for today. As always, I sincerely appreciate you guys. We have number 10 coming on Monday, and we'll go 10, 9, 8, 7, 6, Monday through Friday next week, and then 5, 4, 3, 2, 1 on Monday through Friday the following week. As always, I appreciate you guys, and I hope you have a great weekend, and I'll see you on Monday.

Volume. Another podcast from some SNL, late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes.

Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's superhuman documented it all.

embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. On the Look Back at it podcast. From 1979, that was a big moment for me. 84 was big to me.

I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick a here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. with our friends, fellow comedians, and favorite authors. Like Mark Lamont Hill on the 80s. It was a wild year. It was a wild year.

I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed human.