The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Hoops Tonight - Top 5 NBA Offseasons: Mavericks revenge + Knicks, Bucks & 76ers chasing Celtics

Episode Date: August 3, 2024

Jason Timpf ranks which NBA teams have had the Top 5 Offseasons in pursuit of the 2025 Larry O'Brien Trophy inlcuding Giannis Antetokounmpo's Milwaukee Bucks and Luka Doncic's Dallas Mavericks. Where do Jalen Brunson's New York Knicks and Joel Embiid's Philadelphia 76ers rank after acquiring Mikal Bridges and Paul George this offseason? Later, Jason answers listener questions during an NBA Mailbag segment. 4:15 - Honorable Mention: Spurs & Hawks 10:00 - #5: Philadelphia 76ers 12:15 - #4: Dallas Mavericks 15:15 - #3: Milwaukee Bucks 18:00 - #2: New York Knicks 25:00 - #1: Oklahoma City Thunder 27:30 - NBA Mailbag (Timestamps may vary based on advertisements.) #Volume #Herd   Follow Jason Timpf on social: https://twitter.com/_JasonLT https://www.instagram.com/jtimpf15/See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. Another podcast from some SNL, late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter.

Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the IHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying.

Yep, that's me, Clivert Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, my basketball and college football journey, or my career in sports media. Well, now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifers Show. This is a place for raw, unfilled conversations with athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. So let's get to it. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I put on 10. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth.

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I want to start by going over the top five off seasons that I've seen so far around the NBA. So we're going to talk a little bit about the teams that really hit home runs over the summer to try to step up their chances to win or at least compete for the Larry O'Brien trophy next year. And then we're going to do a mailbag that bounces all around the league. You guys know the drill before we get started. Subscribe to the Hoops Tonight YouTube channel so you don't miss any more of our videos. Follow me on Twitter and underscore Jason LT so you guys don't miss your announcements. Don't forget about our podcast feed, wherever you get your podcast under Hoops Tonight,

and then keep dropping mailback questions and those YouTube comments that we keep hitting them throughout the rest of the summer. All right, let's talk some basketball. So before we actually get into the top five, the five teams that I put on that list are all teams that are in contention, teams that are at least close to competing for the Larry O'Brien trophy. But I wanted to take a chance to shout out two other off seasons that are for teams that are not necessarily contending for Larry O'Brien Trophy, but teams that I think did a nice job revamping things and at least moving in that general direction despite being far away this summer. So the first of

those two teams is the San Antonio Spurs. You know, obviously last year they just had this dreadful lack of ball handling, which made it really difficult to even get a good feel for what Victor Wembeyanamo is capable of playing on a real basketball team with real ball and player movement with a real understanding of how to play alongside each other. And I think adding Harrison Barnes and Chris Paul to that roster, putting some legit shooting in the front court, as well as a guy that can just kind of orchestrate things on the offensive end of the floor, I think that's super exciting. And then especially in light of what we saw over the course of Fiba, and obviously it's still going on, but in the Olympics, a lot of the stuff that Victor Wembeon-Yama has been doing

running four or five pick and rolls, where he's been running pick and rolls with another big I'm really interested to see him doing some of that inverted with Harrison Barnes. You can imagine with his shooting ability, that could be a really interesting action. I just like the direction they moved in. It's just going to make them entertaining in the short term, while also flexible in the long run to see what else you're going to get out of these guys. Guys like Devin Vassell, for instance, in the long run. I thought it was a really smart off-season approach from the San Antonio Spurs.

Secondly, the Atlanta Hawks. So, first of all, getting Zachary Rissachet in the draft. So we're talking about essentially a three-indie wing, a guy who specializes an off-ball defense, a guy with a lot of length, a guy that can shoot the basketball. I really like him as a complimentary fit alongside Jalen Johnson. I do think it's going to be interesting to see which of those two guys prioritizes playing on the perimeter.

Because, again, like, remember, when you have a three and a four, there's basically two different roles there. There's the guy who's going to guard the better offensive forward. That guy's job is typically if it's a wing player to chase and navigate around screens to a certain extent, right? Whereas the other of the two that's guarding the lesser offensive player is probably going to operate more as a low man, right? And so that's a guy that's going to be responsible for breaking up lob passes and pick and roll and closing out to the weak side shooter, right? So like those two roles are pretty different. and Jalen Johnson and Zachary Rissachet have some similar skill sets there.

So one of those two guys is going to have to develop into a little bit more of a screen navigating kind of perimeter chase guy. And I'm really curious to see which one of those two guys ends up doing that. However, I really like the offensive fit as kind of like that Jalen Johnson downhill, freaky athleticism, transition attack. And then Zachary Rishachet, a guy who likes to take and make and actively hunt three-point shots off the catch. is a guy that has a lot of skill attacking closeouts. And so I like that fit.

And then I thought they nailed the Dejante Murray trade. Obviously, as a Lakers fan, I really wanted him in L.A., but I thought the Pelicans' offer was really good. I mean, when you really dig into it, you get the two first round picks, which obviously are on the table if you do the Laker deal. Now, I would argue the first round picks from the Lakers are probably a little more valuable just because of the incompetence of that franchise. And once LeBron James retires, I just have a hard time believing they're going to be competent. We'll see. But I thought the actual players they got back in the deal were better. So, like, obviously you're going to get one of those, you're going to get a one-way guy back from the Lakers.

Like, you're going to get somebody like a Gabe Vincent or a, like a Jared Vanderbilt type of guy. They got Dyson Daniels from New Orleans. He's a really interesting defensive two guard and specifically an interesting guy to have next to Trey Young. If we think of the typical kind of orientation of having a skill guard next to an athlete guard, Dejante Murray was an athlete guard, but didn't focus as much on those details, obviously, as a more offensive-minded player at this phase in his career. Dyson Daniels slots really nicely in there as just like a traditional kind of three-and-d-two guard. And so I thought that was really interesting.

Larry Nance Jr., this is a type of big that Atlanta hasn't had yet. you know, obviously with Capella and Anyaka Kongu, it's a lot of rebounding, it's a lot of athleticism. And Larry Nance brings athleticism to the table, but Larry Nance can shoot the ball a little bit. He can shoot the ball a little bit. He can drive closeouts a little bit. He is a kind of a more quintessential, modern kind of perimeter-oriented big and has some ability to defend in switches. And obviously, like, I just think you're getting two really high-quality role players, guys that can help you on both ends of the floor, and you get the two draft picks that you're hoping for. So like all things considered for the Hawks this summer, man, that's a pretty nice

little turnaround there to get a really high quality role player in the draft, two more high quality role players in the trade to bolster your draft compensation if you wanted to jump on a particular type of deal. If you're, let's say you find yourself in a situation where Zachary Rissachay and Jalen Johnson can't really play together because they're both fours, for instance, as an example. And then Brandon Ingram becomes available and you want to jump in and make a deal. Or if you want to go after a different star around the league that becomes available at some point, you're more well equipped to jump on that type of opportunity, really like to the offseason from the Atlanta Hawks.

All right, let's get to our top five off seasons for our contenders. And number five, I have the Philadelphia 76ers. adding Paul George, Andre Drummond, Caleb Martin, Eric Gordon, and Reggie Jackson, losing Nick Patum, Buddy Heel, De Anthony Melton, and Paul Reed. Now, obviously, losing De Anthony Melton is one of those things where, like, when he's healthy, that's a substantial loss. I think De Anthony Melton is a quality starting two guard in this league. But there was health question marks there, and obviously they wanted to direct their cap space

in other directions. I thought, you know, getting Caleb Martin is kind of that athletic wing to kind of, to play in that type of role at a discount was a nice move. Giving yourself Andre Drummond for the 82 is going to be vitally important because again, I think you got to keep Joel and beat around, you know, 50 games. And that's going to require a pretty substantial load management schedule throughout the season. And in order to do that, you just have to have an excellent backup center. And Andre Drummond's as good a backup center as you'll find around the league right now. And at least at the bare minimum just eats up a lot of rebounds and just kind of takes those,

takes all that physical contact underneath the basket. I think he's a perfect fit there. Obviously having Tyrese Maxey and Paul George as offensive initiators gives you a better chance to put it simply, if you put a lineup out there with Tyrese Maxie, Caleb Martin, Paul George, you know, Kelly Ubre and Andre Drummond, you give yourself a solid chance to win an NBA a regular season game. Like you can go 500 with that group without Embed. And if you go 500 without Embed and then you win, you know, 75% of your games with Embed, you can be a top-seated team while resting your superstar for a third of the

season. And so here's the thing. They took on some risk. Taking on Paul George long term at that number, there's some real risk there. However, you're not in a position where you can be risk-averse. Having Joel Lambed with his health history at his age, after a couple of couple of disappointing seasons. You had no choice but to be aggressive. And I thought Darrell Mori did a nice job being aggressive. This is an interesting team that he has put

together. I have the 76ers at number five. Number four, the Dallas Mavericks. After getting Spencer Dinwiddie too recently, they have now added a considerable amount of ball handling and movement shooting. So Clay Thompson, obviously, the major signing of the summer. You get Quentin Grimes as well. Those are two movement shooters. particularly two movement shooters that Clay Thompson has a history of being able to defend. We'll see if he can still defend at this phase in his career. And I think Quentin Crimes is a pretty solid athletic perimeter defender. Did a lot of work for the Knicks two years ago in the playoffs as their primary point of attack guy

that they would put on the other team's best player. And so you get two movement shooters that theoretically can defend. And then you add two additional guys that are really high quality ball handler. Spencer Dinwiddie can handle the ball run action. Naji Marshall can handle the ball run. on action. And so two additional ball handlers, two additional movement shooters, you're losing Josh Green, who's a guy that struggled to put the ball on the floor and make plays. Derek Jones, Jr., a guy who was not a great ball handler. And then Tim Hardaway, Jr., who is a decent upside type

of offensive player, but a lot of ups and down is not a very good defensive player and just, quite frankly, he didn't make enough shots, right? So what you did is you took some specialists, and you turn them into some more versatile guys. There's some downsides, right? Like Spencer Dinwiddie, a pretty bad catch and shoot guy. That's something that can be an issue, right? So you've got to make sure the ball is in his hands, right? Clay Thompson, at his age, obviously a little bit of defensive decline is to be expected.

However, I like the two movement shooters and the two guys that can dribble. That to me is a clear sign from the Dallas front office that they want to lean into more ball and player movement. We talked a lot about this after the playoffs last year, but there's a certain ceiling to four out offense that's heliocentric and centered around a star, especially in the modern NBA with how much ground coverage these teams have with the schematic approach that teams take, the new strategy of just putting a forward on your opposing big man so you can switch ball screens and force lesser shooters to take above the break threes. That four out thing, it's a little easy to guard at this point. And so putting yourself in a position where you have more ball handling, you have

guys that can come flying off of screens and shooting, that just gives you more offensive, It gives you a better chance of holding up in more matchups. Yes, it worked great in certain matchups, worked really, really well against Minnesota, not so much against Oklahoma City. There are some struggles there, right? Like, as soon as you have multiple high-quality perimeter defenders that can make your guys work really hard, it gets tough. But when there's lots of ball and player movement, you get the defense and rotation more.

You have more opportunities to play with an advantage. Then those elite perimeter defenders can be mitigated to a certain extent. And so I just thought it was a really smart kind of like a philosophical approach from Dallas this summer to try to improve the overall offensive skill of the roster. Number three, I have the Milwaukee Bucks. And again, this is about grading on a curve because there's nothing overly exciting here. The Bucks added Tori and Prince, Gary Trent Jr., DeLon Wright, and they lost Malik Beasley. Nothing like super exciting to talk about there.

But this was a team that was in a really tough spot. They kind of needed to run it back, but they needed to make some slight tweaks to the roster, particularly in guys that can play both ends of the floor, right? And here's the deal. You're in that situation basically handcuffed to the mid-level exception and veteran minimum deals. So you're not in a situation where you can really go out and be overly aggressive and bring in a high-quality starter. That's not an option for you, right? but what you did is you turned Malik Beasley into a much better version of him and Gary Trent Jr. at a veteran minimum contract.

That is a home run 10 times out of 10. Gary Trent Jr. last year, shot catch and shoot jump shots just as well as Malik Beasley did, except for he's a much better ball handler and he's more active with his hands at the point of attack, even though he leaves a lot to be desired on that end. Gary Trent Jr. is capable of being a better perimeter defender than Malik Beasley and is at least going to be more disruptive.

Gary Trent Jr. is a guy that gets a lot of deflections, a lot of strips at the point of attack. And so I just think that's an upgrade. Is Gary Trent Jr. a perfect player? No. If he was, he'd be making a lot more than the $3 million a year or whatever he's going to make next year. But at that number, you cannot do better than that substantial of an upgrade going from a league Beasley to Gary Trent Jr. DeLon Wright, a professional point of attack defender. That's why he's in the league. A little older now, but that comes with better shooting as well. He shot the ball really well last year. If his body can hold up and if he can defend like he's capable of when he was younger, that's a really nice pickup. And then Torium Prince, again, I've said to two Bucks fans, you don't want him starting

in the moments when Chris Middleton is out of the lineup with an injury and Torian Prince has to start. He will leave some to be desired in the sense that like he struggles to hang athletically with starting forwards. But he's a good catch-and-shoot guy, a good close-out attacker, a good NBA player, And if he's in your rotation, as in a bench player who starts when he has to, you're good. If you use him the way the Lakers did as a full-time starter, that's where it can get disappointing. And so as long as they use Toriumprints, the way that I hope they will as they bench forward,

which mainly is going to rely on Chris Middleton's health, that's three substantial rotation spot upgrades executed within the confines of a really tough situation with their cap. So I just got to say that's a damn good offseason. I have the bucks at number three. Number two, the New York Knicks. You add Mikhail Bridges, you lose Isaiah Hartnstein, a couple of bench guys, namely Alec Berks and Boyin-Begdonovich. So here's the thing.

The Hardinstein piece sucks, but a lot of this just has to do, and we're going to talk about this when we get into the mailbag. A lot of this just has to do with the reality of the center market. Nick Claxton got $25 million a year. Isaiah Hardinstein gets $27 million a year. Jared Allen, who's a. somewhere around the eighth to 12th best starting center in the NBA just got $31 million a year in an extension.

And so the market on centers is if you're a starting center that is one of the top 15 to 20 starting centers in the league, you're getting $25 million. And so unfortunately, the Knicks were kind of in a predicament where it was going to be really difficult for them to retain Hartnstein under any circumstances. So that's not something I'm going to necessarily hold them accountable to. They got Mikhail Bridges. Did they give up a lot? Yes. But this is not going after

Paul George. You're going after an in his prime, incredibly durable two-way wing. So like, anytime you're doing something like that, a guy who's in his late 20s, notoriously available to play, and a guy that plays both ends of the floor, if you're going to overpay, you're going to overpay for a guy like that. Mainly, we can see now that the Knicks are stocking up on guys that can play both ends of the floor, right? Dante DiVincenzo can play both ends of the floor. Mikhail Bridges can play both ends of the floor. O.G. and Anobi can play both ends of the floor. Deuce McBride can play both ends of the floor. That is a really solid foundation when you need to get out of the Eastern Conference against the Boston Celtics team that specifically targets

weak points for you on the defensive end of the floor. We saw it with Dallas. It's like they got Derek lively out there. He's sliding his feet. They got Derek Jones out there. He's sliding his feet. They got PJ Washington out there. He's sliding his feet. They got, you know, Kyrie Irving out there. He's sliding his feet.

But they just went after Luca, right? And that's the thing. Like Jalen Brunson is a guy that at least competes and does his job. And he'll throw a hedge and recover if he needs to. Surrounding him with a bunch of guys that can play both ends of the floor gives you a solid chance to contain that Boston dribble penetration, keep your defense out of rotation and have a better chance of holding up. I like the move.

And again, like your setup specifically for a bunch of different looks. You've got a Julius Randall at center look where you can go small and just play literally five good two-way players. You've got a bench or a big group where you've got Mitchell Robinson at the five. You held down a precious to Chua as an additional kind of like a kind of hybrid look where precious can switch onto some guards. They've got a lot of different looks they can go to. They've got a trade to make still because they've got Julius. If he's an awkward fit, there's going to be someone out there that will take advantage of what Julius Randall brings to the table, especially teams that are looking for size in the front court. So, like, they're in a really good spot.

They're going to be immediately good and they've got moves to make like where the Knicks are at. Preparing for your upcoming fantasy football draft, do you wish that you could wave a magic wand and somehow know who exactly your league mates are going to take? Well, with draft intel from fantasy pros, you'll know exactly how your league mates draft better than they do. Draft Intel will automatically analyze your league's history to see who rushes to the draft board first to take a quarterback, who takes too many rookies, and who is going to reach for their favorite teams players over and over again. Everybody hates a homer and every league has one of them. But right now, you can put all that intel to the test by bringing those patterns directly into a mock draft and make your mock draft feel like the real thing. Check out Fantasypros.com slash volume today to get an edge over your leaguemates right now and find. Forever.

Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth.

Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits,

the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes,

creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast, it's a space for honest conversations,

stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So, if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeard radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes,

at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tapped Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do with Little Kim? Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English.

Each episode, we pick it here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill, waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 was big to me, not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack all day, but just so you all know. I mean, at this point, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack. So I'm starting to see that there's a through line.

We also have AIDS on the table right now. Thank you for finishing that sentence. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really? Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Number one, though, the Oklahoma City Thunder.

They added Alex Crusoe and Isaiah Hartinstein and lost Josh Giddy. Put it simply, you took the one guy in your rotation that didn't make sense last year. You turned him into a guy that can step in and immediately contribute on both ends of the floor and Alex Crusoe. And you addressed your biggest individual weakness as a team last. year, which was your ability to hold up under physicality in the front court, including, like, dealing with bigger-bodied players, and most importantly, defensive rebounding. As the Thunder were one of the worst defensive rebounding teams in the league last year, Isaiah Hartinstein is a human wrecking ball, and he's going to help so much in those areas, but most importantly, Isaiah Hartinstein is a

player that is a wheel greaser, so to speak, in five-out offense. I talked about this a lot with Team USA as it pertains to Joel Embede, but the five-spot is the most. important spot to have a guy who can make quick decisions and get the ball from side to side in five out. If you have a guy that struggles with that specifically, it gums things up for everybody because the center is the bridge to both sides of the floor in five out offense. He's the guy that like when you run action on the right side and you throw the dribble hand off and then you short roll and you catch and nothing's open, he's the guy that's got to turn and go to a dribble handoff on the other side of the floor. He's the guy

that's got to get up and down the floor in transition. He's the guy that's got to set those screens and the dribble handoffs, roll hard, but then also get back out for the next sequence. It is a motor position. It is a decision-making position. It is a position where you can't have hesitation. You've got to be quick, and Isaiah Hartnstein

is really, really good at that. He can make all the backdoor passes. He can set good screens. He can make those floaters. Love the fit there. I think the Thunder immediately, addressed a couple of their biggest weaknesses, and they were already the one seed that already had an impressive second round showing that came this close to making it

to the Western Conference finals, and they made themselves substantially better, and that doesn't even count for the fact that all of their young stars have a lot more experience now after having two rounds of playoff basketball underneath their belt. Really, really excited about the Thunder next season.

I thought they had the best offseason. Small, simple, to the point, and addressed their specific needs. All right, let's get to the mailback. Why is Jason Tatum not considered a top five player despite being selected first-team All-MBA three years in a row? Had a bunch of Celtics fans bring this up to me. First of all, first-team all NBA is an award.

It's something that is voted on, and it typically has a lot more to do with team success than anything else. And so as a result, like, we comment, we'll see situations where first team all NBA does not represent the top five players in the NBA. Like just a couple of quick examples. 2002, Devin Booker made first team all NBA. I didn't think he was a top five player in the league. Last year, Nicole Yokic didn't make first team all NBA.

He was very clearly the first team in the best player in the NBA. That was back in that was 2023, not 2024. So like the first team all NBA is not just a clear. ranking of the top five players in the league. Secondly, anybody who has followed me on the show knows I've been consistent. Ever since 2022, literally before the finals even started with Golden State, when I picked the Warriors to win that series, I still said, I think Boston has the most talented roster in the league.

I thought they had the most talented roster in the league in 2023, and then I thought they had by far the most talented roster in the league in 2024. Boston has the most talent. They just do. They've had the most talent three years in a row now. And what ends up happening is when you have a lot of talent, you win a lot of games. When you win a lot of games, especially in a week Eastern conference, you're going to have a lot of really favorable metrics, right?

Because those metrics are fed by the results that are taking place on the floor. And a good percentage of the NBA voting pool, they legitimately make decisions based on numerical evidence over what they're seeing on their TV screens, which is something I personally disagree with, but I've literally had voters tell me that. I've had voters tell me that they believe that numbers are less fallible than, and I'm not talking about like, raw counting stats. I have talked to voters who believe that catch all metrics are more reliable than what we see on our TV screens, which is something I personally very much disagree with. I think catch all metrics are incredibly flawed. And so the point is, Jason,

Tatum, while I do believe he's a top 10 player, has benefited from being on the most talented rosters in the league, which has led to incredible team results, which has led to incredible individual metrics, which has led to him getting a lot of voting support in the all-MBA voting. In my opinion, he is not one of the top five players in the NBA. He's not a good enough offensive engine in the half court to be that. I do think Tatum is underrated by a lot of his haters. And by the way, this is something that I understand where Celtics fans are coming from. I am one of those guys that, like, I personally very much value the offensive engine archetype. I think it's the most valuable skill a player can bring to the team.

That's why a guy like Shea Gilders-Alexander, for example, is better, in my opinion, than a Jason Tatum. If I need a guy to lead my team for four playoff rounds while surrounded with a bunch of talent to just generate quality shots, give me Shea over Tatum every single time, right? That's just my personal view of the game. too often, and I know this is especially from Laker fans, and God knows that we've got a lot of Laker fans that we deal with on this show because I am a Laker fan myself and we cover the Lakers very closely. And we got a lot of Lakers fans that follow me on Twitter and a lot of Lakers fans that are in the comments. And so I understand that there can be a lot of Tatum negativity, but like, I just want to have an honest conversation about it. I think he's an underrated defensive player.

I think his size and strength, even though it's led to some drawbacks with his jump shot, has allowed him to become one of the most versatile front court defenders in the league. His ability to guard opposing centers was a huge part of what made Boston's defensive schemes work during their two-month playoff run. I'm a huge believer in Jason Tatum. I think his offensive kind of like approach

worked really well with this Celtics group that had so much talent. Big Jason Tatum fan. But he is just not the, he is not the offensive force that the top players in the league are, That, to me, puts him below that top tier of superstars, and I do not think he's a top five player. That said, he's going to continue to make first team all NBA because he's on the most talented roster in the league.

He'll make first team all NBA again next year. And I'm probably not going to think he's a top five player. And so, again, that's just my take. I know you Celtics fans disagree. Doesn't mean you're wrong. Doesn't mean I'm wrong. These are just our opinions. That's where we're hashed them out.

This was a direct message I got from Kevin. Hey, Jason, longtime fan and listener. Please more Devin Booker love. man. He's been so good defensively considering his skill set. He has been at the top of Team USA and plus minus since the beginning of camp. I want some Jason Tim Flav from a man, D. Book. So the Devin Booker thing has been really fascinating to me. I actually was talking with the Spears and Ali, they're a local radio station here in Tucson, actually. I was on there this morning. And we were talking, they specifically asked me like, with the play of Devin

Booker and Kevin Durant in the play of Anthony Davis and LeBron James, should Lakers fans and Sons fans be excited? And my answer was they should be annoyed. And the reason why they should be annoyed is the reason why the Sons and Lakers struggle is because outside of their stars, they don't have starting caliber NBA players that play both ends of the four. Like, Austin Reeves is the third best Laker. He's a very good offensive player, and he tries on defense.

But because of his limitations, he's an average to slightly above average defensive player. DeAngelo Russell, very good offensive player, very bad defensive player. Rui Hachamura, very good offensive player, very bad defensive player. Jared Vanderbilt, very good defensive player, very bad offensive player. Gay Vincent, decent offensive player, a decent defensive player, pretty bad offensive player. they got these one-way guys. And so the Lakers are full of holes, and they've had a bunch of issues,

which is why I've been preaching they need upgrades at the two and three now for two years, right? Look at the Sons. Same sort of thing. Beyond Kevin Durant, Devin, Booker, and Bradley Beal, it's a bunch of guys who play one end of the floor. Yusuf Nurkich is a really useful five-out fulcrum, who sets good screens, sets good dribble handoffs,

can finish under the basket, can get offensive rebounds, can occasionally knock down the three. And while I was impressed by his effort, defensively last year, he's limited there. You know, Eric Gordon at this phase in his career, not exactly a dominant two-way player, right? Josh Akoji, really good defensive player, limited offensively.

We can go on and on, but the reality is, is the Sons and the Lakers are struggling because from the front office down, and for the Sons, it has more to do with their constraints after making the deals that they made, for the Lakers, it has more to do with organizational incompetence, but those teams are struggling because, as we saw, having the Derek Whites, having the Drew Holidays, having the Al Horford's,

having the role players that play both ends of the floor is what wins you an NBA championship. You've got to have superstar talent plus two-way role players. And the Lakers and Sons have the superstar talent. They don't have the two-way role players. And this is taking it back to the Jason Tatum thing. This is why that kind of conversation is stupid. I think Kevin Durant, LeBron James, Anthony Davis are all better than Jason Tatum right now. I think they all are.

But especially with Jason Tatum in this miserable shooting slump, it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter because their team has these limitations. Tatum's playing alongside good two-way role players. His team's winning a shit ton of games and winning the title. Anthony Davis and LeBron and Kevin Durant, Devin Booker, they're playing alongside one-way role players. Their team is really struggling. Basketball is a team sport at the end of the day.

And by the way, when I say LeBron, Anthony Davis, and Katie are better than Tatum. I'm mainly talking in a playoff context. I think for 82 games, you still take Tatum over most guys just because of his durability. LeBron turns 40 next year. But the point is, is like, we did get a healthy LeBron and AD last year, and they still underachieve. And a lot of people are going like, well, if LeBron and AD are that good, why aren't they winning more? And it's like because it is better to win games to have the Drews and the Derek Whites and the Al Horford's than it is to have the Rui Hachamura's, the DeAngelo Ruffles, and the Jared Vanderbiltz.

It just is. It just is. Like two-way role players win titles. That is what happens. And so I hope that we can kind of like see past that. As far as the Devin Booker part goes, and I want to take it back to the mailbag for a second. The fascinating thing to me is that those four guys have played well.

If you were to rank the top five players with Team USA so far, it's going to be LeBron and AD, Booker and KD, and it's probably Bam as the fifth guy. And I think that's really fascinating. 80 and Bam, why have they succeeded? They are two traditional five-out bigs, really good at flowing from side to side, multiple dribble handoffs in the same possession,

the ability to be a scoring threat on the role, while also being able to get up and down the floor and transition and defend in multiple ways. That's obviously why they've worked. Why has Kevin Durant and Devin Booker worked so well? Kevin Durant, Devin Booker have worked so well because they are the quintessential plug-in play guys. Devin Booker has been asked to be Clay Thompson on this team,

to guard on the perimeter, to chase over the top of screens, and to operate with an advantage created by other stars. He's done a masterful job of that. And then Kevin Durant, the exact same thing, obviously from the forward position. He's benefiting from the attention other guys are getting, knocking down a ton of these perimeter jump shots, which are so valuable in FIBA,

with the defensive three second rule. And just one of the big reasons why Book and KD in particular I played so well is quick decision-making. They are just guys that catch and quickly read the floor, make a read, keep it moving. That is really easy to play alongside. When you go play pickup and you're playing with a guy that you know what he's going to do, it's easy.

Because when you throw him that pass, if you know he's going to shoot when he's open or he's going to drive when he's guarded and he's going to always make the right play out of it, it's easy to play. when you throw it to the guy who catches and holds and jab steps and you don't know if he's going to randomly decide to ISO or if he's going to randomly decide to do something else,

it's frustrating and difficult to play with. The flip side of that coin, why has a guy like Joel Embed really struggled in this setting? Because he's going to struggle to play five-out basketball flowing from side to side, getting up and down the floor, playing alongside other stars, quick decision-making. I find that fascinating.

And what Devin Booker and Kevin Durand are telling you is they are professional basketball players, meaning they can play many different styles of basketball. It's like a session guitarist who, like, plays blues for one guy, a little bit of classic rock for another guy, country lines for another guy, he's a professional.

His job is, what is the band need? The band needs me to do this. I'll do that, right? That's what KD. and Devin Booker are doing. They are slotting in two roles on this team because they are professional basketball players. whereas a guy like Joel Embed, force of nature, and by literal definition of professional basketball player, but it needs to play a certain style. And if I ask Embed to do something that's a little out of his comfort zone, he's going to struggle.

And I find that to be fascinating. And again, like, and I said this on the radio this morning, like, that to me is what's so fascinating about basketball. It's more art than science. You don't just add talent and get talent benefit. You add talent and you get what's complimentary. out of it. And Devin Booker and Kevin Durant have incredibly complimentary play styles that can fit alongside other good basketball players. For the mailback, why does the media hate BAM? I don't think the media hates BAM. I think there's a certain limitation there offensively that has been baked in

for a long time. And the three-point shooting is exciting, right? And that is something that kind of changes the equation with BAM, right? Everyone's always been a huge fan of BAM on the defensive end of the for obviously everything he's capable of there, one of the probably the best switching big in the league, if not one of the best switching bigs in the league. He's a guy that is a really good passer on the short roll, a guy who's been a really good dribble

handoff guy in five out offense, but there have been some limitations for him offensively in his career, namely, like last year guys, for Miami last season, bam shot below 50% on layups. That was a huge issue in the finals two

years ago against Denver. ability to make those short shots right by the basket. And so the reality is, as Bam, as good as he is, there are still just a little bit of like an offensive limitation there that prevents him from getting to the next level, right? But I still think Bam is incredibly valuable. I think he's underrated. I think he's showing what he can do at this level. I think, and here's the thing, if he's going to struggle to make layups, his ability to knock down three-point shots would be an excellent counter to that. But like, I mean, I don't think, I think hate is the wrong word. Bam flies under the radar because he has offensive limitations.

That's really all it is. But like, anybody who watches Bam and understands the game knows that he brings so much good to the table. And if he can mitigate some of his issues around the basket by knocking down three-point shots, that goes a long way to increasing his value. And he shot the ball really damn well in these FBA games. And like one of the specific things that I've also liked,

I'm pulling up Bam's jump shot numbers so I can show you guys real quick. but one of the other things that I've appreciated with Bantu is you're getting a good look at what it's like when he plays alongside another big when he's been with Anthony Davis. And that's fascinating because one of the things we talk about is when you have to use your big to defend ball screens, it gets a little bit tougher for your smaller players on the back line to make the low man rotations. Right. So that's the guy that has to step over on the ball screen to deflect lob.

when BAM is up at the level, and then the guy gets back to the shooter when the ball gets worked to the opposite side, right? Well, if you have another big in the equation, there's more opportunities for BAM to actually be in that situation. And we've seen more of that with Anthony Davis. And so I think it'd be really cool just to get more opportunity to see BAM in that type of role. Bam has taken 12 catch-and-shoot jump shots so far with Team USA, and it's got 15 points out of them. That's 1.25 points per shot. really, really quality shooting from Bametabio. The NFL seasons right around the corner.

We'll be breaking down all the off-season storylines on the Colin Cowherd podcast. My Best Takes, guests like my buddy Nick Wright, check out the Colin Coward podcast, part of the Volume Network, available on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential.

Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win.

I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me, Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement

to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment. And the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music.

The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tapped Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do with Little Kim?

Well, you can find out on the Look Back at It podcast. I'm Sam Jett. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick a here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill, waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 is big to me, not just because,

of crack. I'm down to talk about crack on day, but just so y'all know. I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack. So I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now. Thank you finishing that sentence. Yes. I don't think there's a more important year for black people.

Really? Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your All right, we have five more questions. The Warriors acquired Melton and Anderson. Both were on the Grizzlies in 2022. The Warriors won a chip but had the toughest and most intense series against Memphis.

Memphis Challenge because they knew Warrior basketball, hence the signings. Clever move? I like them because they fit kind of traditional Golden State Warrior roles. De Anthony Melton is, in my opinion, like a poor man's version of KCP, but he's a better ball handler than KCP. ACP is more of a movement shooter type of archetype. Melton's got a little bit more off the dribble bounce, like Pot to be able to make plays on his own on the bounce.

Kyle Anderson fits the other half of that Golden State Warriors mold. The Golden State 5 out mold typically kind of feeds around two fulcrums and then three decision makers, right? So whether that's Draymond and Andrew Bogut back in the day, or it's Draymond and Looney a couple years ago, or if it's Draymond and Cominga now, they have these two guys that function primarily as the guys that are throwing the dribble handoffs while the other three guys are running action around them.

And so you need three guys that can run action that can all dribble and pass and make quick decisions. Then you need the guys that can set those screens, roll into space, flow into the next dribble handoff, all that classic stuff for the warrior offense. Kyle Anderson, to me, fits wonderfully into one of those fulcrum spots. He's a guy who's really good at operating with an advantage on the catch, in that short area where he can make those little floaters and stuff like 10 feet from the rim. He can make passes out of there, set good screens

while also being a very, very good defensive player on the other end of the floor. And then DeAnthony Melton, because of his ability to put the ball on the four, gives you another guy who can run action while also defending on the other end of the floor. You added two two-way guys that pretty seamlessly fit into the Golden State Warrior offense. I thought they were really nice additions.

Can you briefly discuss how either, Elite, Derek White is at basketball. Where does he rank in the NBA on the impact value scale? So I don't have any real like impact list for Derek White, but I do want to talk about his impact for a minute because I talked a lot about Derek White when I went on with Ethan Strauss about a week ago. And we were discussing just kind of like what makes a winning basketball player. And we were discussing some Team USA stuff. And one of the things that I found, find really fascinating about Derek White. Because Derek White made another game-saving play the other day. And he's made plenty of them in his life, right? He famously last year in the Eastern Conference Finals

gave the Celtics a chance to win in game seven by stealing game six in Miami with the offensive rebound putback, right? And against South Sudan, not in the Olympics, but in the exhibition, on the final possession, there's a play where Carlic Jones is working against Drew Holiday, makes a really nice right-to-left move and kind of like, ditches Drew. And goes into a floater, Anthony Davis has no choice but to abandon his man and step up and try to block it, which forces his car like to shoot a really high floater, which goes way over the backside of the rim. And Anthony Edwards does not peel off of his man in back, a box Anthony Davis's man out.

Anthony Edwards makes a mistake. This becomes something that could be an issue. When you and Gabriel goes up, gets two hands on the basketball and is right there to tip dunk it in, Derek White comes flying in from out of the play, barely gets a piece of it, and causes one you and Gabriel to throw it into the front of the rim, and Team USA wins. And it's an example of what makes Derek White such an elite role player. The motor never stops. And I was talking about this with Ethan, because the Anthony Edwards corollary on that same possession

as he doesn't make that extra play is stars are always in the, energy conservation business. They're trying to make sure they got the legs they need to make plays down the line. Role players are always in the energy expending business. They know that their role is to constantly point and shoot their effort in all of these areas, knowing there's another guy that can step in and do their job when they're tired and vice versa, and their job is to never leave any of that meat on the bone. And that's what makes Derek White the quintessential role player. He's got the tools, he's athletic, he's got long arms, he's a useful offensive player, a very quick, accurate three-point shot release, makes quick reads, can play driving kick,

can offensive rebound, but he's also, but most importantly, he directs his 6-6 long-armed frame into just constant effort and energy on the details. Active as a rebounder, one of the best shot-blocking guards in the league, a guy that fights over the top of screens consistently. That is, that is what makes a good role player. It's having athletic gifts, but also being relentless in your attention to detail in your effort and energy on every single possession, which is something that you can't expect out of stars. And that's what makes a really good role player. All right, three more. Hi, Jason, big fan. I really enjoy listening to you talk about the game. The situation with Jason Tatum's jump shot got me thinking. How do players get into these slumps where the mechanics are all out of whack?

I imagine these guys are shooting hundreds of shots a day. It's surprising that they all of a sudden lose rhythm in mechanics. So usually when you go work on your shot, you are working on some sort of mechanic thing, right? A huge one for me is footwork. I rep footwork every single day because that's the part of my shot that I choose to focus on. But even with my release, like, I have a specific thing that happens to me every once in a while where like every once in a while my hand will drift a little bit in front of my face instead of getting my elbow tucked. It's just something that happens when I play for months and months, like there'll be a stretch where just my form gets a little out of whack. And I got to take time to go into the gym and like make sure I'm

getting that elbow tucks so that I'm getting a good straight release every single time. Right. Like everybody works on those, those little details. I've listened to Kyrie Irving, talk about how he tweaks, it goes into the gym and works on his form. Steph Curry shoots, does form shooting for several minutes before he even gets into his shooting drill. So I'll just shoot little five-foot jumpers until his form feels right. Like, when you go work on your shot, you work on your form. And I think in a lot of cases, when you enter into a bad slump, it can cause you to over tinker with it. And it's very clear that, because here's the thing, when you, like, just take that example I talked about with getting your elbow underneath.

So, like, if you're, like, really hyper-focused on getting that elbow in, you might start to exaggerate it and, like, add a little hitch into your shot. And you never want to do that because you want to have good energy transfer. You want to have a, good flow from the bottom of your shot to the top of your shot. And so in all likelihood, my guess is that Jason just wasn't shooting well, and it started to get to him mentally a little bit. And so he started to tinker with it, and now he's over tinkering with it, and now he's got some issues.

This is what happened to Anthony Davis. Like, his release on his jump shot is way slower now than it was in the bubble. But he's probably tinkering with it a lot more because he just hasn't shot well in a long time. And so Tatum just needs to get out of this Olympic. setting and he needs to get in the gym all day I'm summer and polish that shit up and make sure it's ready for training camp. Two more. Jason, if the Lakers got Jeremy Grant

in a trade and couldn't get an athletic guard at the two, who would be the fifth starter at the two for you? Max Christie, since you said for Max to start, you need an awesome wing at the three or Jared Vanderbilt to increase the length and size of the team, which would most likely be a switching group. I think that we are going to see Max Christie

do some starting this year, especially if they end up trading DeAngelo Russell. The thing with Max Christie, that makes it really hard for me is I just haven't seen him play a substantial NBA role for a large sample size. There's a lot of stuff I'm really excited about. He's a very good athlete. I was actually watching some random footage of the Laker Warrior game earlier this year. It was the one that went to double overtime and LeBron had like 36, 20, and 12. It was like one of his crazy games this season, and he hit all those pull-up jump shots in overtime to win the game. But in that game, there was a play

where like Max Christie set a quick pick on LeBron and then slipped into open space. And LeBron like hit him with a perfect bounce pass. And Max like caught in traffic and like elevated off the two feet and dunked on Dremongry. And I was like, man, like Max has like such great natural athletic gifts. Excellent frame, excellent foot speed, competes at the point of attack, navigates screens well, active with his hands, absorbs contact. he's put on muscle, shoots the ball really well.

My main concern with him is driving and kicking, like how good is he at just like making decisions when he has to put the ball on the floor? But again, like, I just got to see it. And I need to see a lot of it. And I hope that he gets a substantial role all season so that we just get a lot of time to see what Max Christie has. But bottom line, NBA history tells us

young players struggle to contribute in the later rounds of the playoffs. And so if you're counting on max to be your starting two, I think you'd have to be really good at the other four spots. And it's a lot to ask with where the Lakers are at at this point. And so we'll see, like even Jeremy Grant, like I like Jeremy Grant, the thing that I like about Jeremy Grant is just the athletic waves. Jeremy is big and freaky athletic. And if you put him next to LeBron and AD, that's just a lot of, a lot of size and athleticism. But Jeremy hasn't defended super well since he left Denver.

He's notoriously a guy that cares more about just making his money and playing chill basketball somewhere than playing a hard job for a winning team. That was kind of the story on him when he went to Detroit. and so like I don't know that we're going to, I don't know what Jeremy Grant we get. Like if we get the Jeremy Grant from the bubble who was really competing and guarding the other team's best player, like that that's interesting to me. But I'm curious to see if that's what we get if that deal ends up getting done. And obviously there's no guarantee that that deal ends up getting done. And so we'll see like the Lakers are in a tough spot.

I mean, here's the thing. There's been a lot of talk about Gabe Vincent, Max Christie, and Jared Vanderbilt, just kind of being the defense and athleticism that joins the team by Max actually getting playing time without Darwin Ham in the picture and by Jared Vanderbilt and Gabe Vincent being healthy. I'm okay with the approach that you wait till the deadline at this point because you already missed out on Dejante Murray and it looks like you weren't getting Dejante Murray unless you included Austin Reeves, which is a difficult decision to make, right? Outside of that, I haven't seen, like Donovan Mitchell was not a realistic target. So there's not really a great

option out there right now. And so while I would like them to upgrade the role player spots, I'm okay with you at least taking it into camp and seeing what Max can do, seeing what Jared Vanderbilt looks like from a health standpoint, seeing how Gabe Vincent looks. But come hell or high water, if it doesn't look right, you got to make a move at some point. Because LeBron and AD are too good and you owe these guys a legitimate final chance. and I think you owe them the use of those two first-round draft picks to try to make that happen. All right, last one. Hi, Jason.

I'm curious to hear your thoughts on the future of centers in relation to the new CBA and cap management. Obviously, the tier one guys, Yokic Mb, and Bede, and AD, deserve the max, and I'd assume if you didn't have one of those three guys, you'd want a basic rim protector or runner, like a lively, Jalen Duren, et cetera. Or a genuine stretch five, if you were lucky, like Miles Turner or Christopps Porzingis. The issue arises if you're someone like Sabonis or Bam, who are clearly more skilled than average centers but aren't close to the two. tier one guys. And when they are on max deals, both the ceiling for Miami and Sacramento are limited.

If you were a GM looking for a center, would you just want them to simply rebound slash protect the rim slash catch lobs or try to find the next tier one center? Having that genuine tier one center gives you a true advantage come playoff time, but the numbers suggest that this is way harder to find compared to a tier one wing or guard. Thanks as always for your content looking forward to disagreeing with your player rankings. So this got really fascinating for me after the Jared Allen deal. because if you look at it, Jared Allen is probably a slightly above average starting center

in the NBA, and he got over $30 million a year on his extension. Isaiah Hartenstein is an average starting center in this league, $27 million a year. Nick Claxton average starting center in this league 25 million a year

and that's not even close to the top tier guys that you mentioned where you're getting into Yokic Mbid Anthony Davis Bametabio you mentioned Sabonis like there's so many of these guys too like what about Zubach what about Chet Holmgren like we can go on and on there are so many

of these like quality centers and if the running rate on them is 25 million a year at a minimum a couple of things are interesting there. First of all, it's fascinating that it's fascinating that the league is telling us that that center position is so damn valuable now which is telling you with the problem

that Yokic and M.B. and Anthony Davis and all these guys present, you got to have interior size. The second thing that's fascinating about it is, okay, what do you do if you're a job, GM then. And this is where I look at like, who is it that Jalen Smith went to?

Let me check real quick. But Jalen Smith I saw I went for like $9 million a year. Bulls, he went to the Bulls. So like, that's where it gets difficult. Like, would you be better off paying $9 million a year for a guy like a Jalen Smith or $30 million? a year, or 27 million a year for a guy like Isaiah Hartenstein. And those are tough decisions to make.

And that's where it comes down to what the rest of your roster looks like, right? So if you're a team that doesn't have the ability from the same point of the cap to go after a higher level center, then you've got to look at that lower tier, right? And it's just all about resource management. And so from there, I think it just depends on what your predicament is. Cleveland had to resign Jared Allen. Evan Mowgli's not big enough to play center. They had to appease Donovan Mitchell during a little bit of a win now type of predicament, right?

The Thunder, that's an interesting example, spending $27 million a year on a center when you already have Chet Holmgren on the roster. But they lined it up so that Isaiah Hartenstein's option is at the same time as Chet Holmgren's deal. So they can at least address that when they get into the future. and my guess is that when they max Chet, they probably won't retain Isaiah Hartnstein at that point.

They probably will go after a bigger forward, right? And so these are, it's all about resource management, but the thing that's been fascinating to me is just to put it simply, the centers in the league just cost a lot of money now. And I don't think there's such, like, if you want an average starting center, you're paying $25 million a year.

And that, that's just a lot. That's a lot to deal with with the cash. Now, the one flip side there is when the new TV deal kicks in, $25 million is kind of like the new $15 million. You know what I mean? And so, again, like, it might be one of those deals where when we get into the future, the teams that got in, guys, the teams that locked up, Claxton and Jared Allen and all these guys in that $25 to $30 million range, they might be really happy a couple years from now on the new CBA, or sorry, not the new CBA, the new TV deal, because that might be. the new discount. A starting center might go for $35 million a year in a few years. And so, and so again, we're in a little bit of a transition period, but I do think it's really fascinating how much the league is valuing those guys. All right, guys, that is all I have for today and for the weekend. We're going to take the rest of this weekend off, probably going to

take Monday off too because Team USA plays on Tuesday. In all likelihood, we'll do an episode on Tuesday that covers the quarterfinal game. From now to Tuesday, I'm going to keep working on player ranking stuff because I'm going to have that player I go out of town next Thursday and I'm going to have a player ranking stuff that's going to be releasing while I'm out of town. So I'll be working on that. But our next new episode will be on Tuesday. As always, I sincerely appreciate you guys for supporting me and the show. I'll see you guys. What's up guys? As always, I appreciate you for listening to and supporting hoops tonight. It would actually be really helpful for us if you guys would take a second and leave a rating and a review. As always, I appreciate you guys supporting us

If you could take a minute to do that, I'd really appreciate it. Another podcast from some SNL, late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and Friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes.

Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the I-Heart Radio. app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Clivert Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, my basketball and college football journey, or my career in sports media. Well, now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Cliford Show. This is a place for raw, unfilled conversations with athletes,

creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. So let's get to it. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year.

Within probably 10 days, I put on 10. 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Heart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed human.