The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Hoops Tonight - USA-Australia Reaction: LeBron, Curry & Team USA "clunky" in Olympic exhibition

Episode Date: July 16, 2024

Jason Timpf reacts to LeBron James, Steph Curry, and Team USA's 98-92 over Team Australia in their exhibition matchup prior to the Paris Olympics. Jason discusses the performance of Anthony Edwards, how Joel Embiid can fit better, Australia's late comeback bid, and much more from Team USA. Later, Jason answers listener questions during an NBA Mailbag segment. Timeline: 5:00 - USA-Australia Reaction 23:00 - NBA Mailbag (Timestamps may vary based on advertisements.) #Volume #Herd   Follow Jason Timpf on social: https://twitter.com/_JasonLT https://www.instagram.com/jtimpf15/See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. Another podcast from some SNL, late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter.

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in Kansas. 21 plus, age varies by jurisdiction, bonus bets expire 168 hours after issuance. Deposit and eligibility restrictions apply. See terms and responsible gaming resources at DKNG.c.c.com slash baseball. All right, welcome to Hoops Tonight here at the volume. Heavy Monday, everybody. Hope all of you guys had an incredible weekend. I am finally back from Vegas. Four nights is a long time to be there, but it was an incredible trip. It was a productive trip. The Jaime Hawkes interview was supposed to come out today, but it might end up coming out tomorrow. We're just still doing some stuff with the footage. So keep an eye on my Twitter feed for that. I'll tweet it out when it's active. On Saturday night, I got to go see Dead and Company

at the Sphere again. They played like the perfect set list. They played all my favorite songs. As you guys can imagine, I was on Cloud 9. It was an awesome end to that incredible trip. And then yesterday, I just got to kind of decompress and relax and hang out with my wife and just kind of get ready for another week. And here we are. Team USA versus Australia is what we're leading with today. US's second exhibition since all the guys got together in Vegas a couple weeks ago. We're going to dive into that game from a bunch of different angles and talk about their progression as they get ready for the Olympics. After that, I tweeted out asking for mailbag questions, and a bunch of you guys gave me a bunch of good ones. We're going to be bouncing all over the league.

We're going to talk some Celtics. We're going to talk some Orlando Magic. We're going to talk some Lakers and Warriors. We're going to talk some Denver Nuggets. We're going to get into a bunch of different topics around the league before we get out of here for the day. You guys know the drill before we get started, subscribe to the Hoops Tonight YouTube channel so you don't miss any more of our videos. Follow me on Twitter at underscore Jason LT so you guys don't miss show announcements. And then don't forget about a podcast feed, wherever you get your podcast on Hoops tonight and then keep dropping mailbag questions in those YouTube comments and keep hitting them throughout the rest of the summer.

All right, let's talk some basketball. So if you looked at the scoreboard, you would have thought the starters played much better, right? They were up 1913 at the first time out, very different from the 12 to 4 deficit they were in against Canada. But actually, most of that came down to just making shots, in my opinion. Like, LeBron hit two threes. Anthony Edwards hit three threes. They were just kind of red out, a red hot out of the gates. And there were a couple of them, like, there were good looks. Like, there were, like, plays where the ball would start on the strong side, and Australia would load up and it would work its way to the weak side for like a catch and shoot opportunity

for LeBron or a catch and shoot opportunity for Anthony Edwards. but a lot of it was like kind of stagnant. They're still dribbling the ball up that right side of the floor and kind of hanging out around the wing and either just swinging the ball to the opposite side for a post-up or just running a single ball screen. They're still not really getting that five-out flow from side to side that I really want to see with this group,

especially with how talented their bigs are. And some of that has to do with the personnel, right? Like I talked about after game, the Canada game. Anthony Edwards was the most impressive player in that game. He was the most impressive player again out the gates tonight. He had three-threes and had a, today I should say, three-three is in a driving floater, so we had 11 points before the first time out. But, like, that is separate from what I'm looking at in terms of plugging and playing

with this particular lineup. Like, as much as I love Anthony Edwards, he's not a great ball mover. A lot of possessions in this game where you would see the ball like two or three passes and then it would end up in ants' hands on the wing and then it's just jab step, pump fake, jab, jab, pump fake. and he's going to get a great look there, right? He's Anthony Edwards. He's freaky athletic.

He's jump shooting has just been so locked in as of late. But in order to get that true five out side to side flow, you need guys that make quick decisions and when they don't have a great opportunity, get the ball to the next player so that he can run action, right? And like, it's not just anti either. It's Joel Embed 2. Bam and AD are guys that have a lot of experience playing five out and know how to flow from side to side and know how to,

set good screens and roll into the middle of the floor, know when to short roll, no one to roll hard to the rim. They have all of that stuff down, right? And Embed, like, it makes sense for him in Philly in his career. He's an offensive engine. He's a guy that everything gets run through him, and it's just totally different when you're playing with this level of perimeter talent, and what you really need from that center position

is someone that kind of just ties everybody together flowing from action to action. And so even though the U.S. was up 19 to 13, I still think they have a lot that they can get better at with that starting group in terms of just getting higher quality shots and getting more ball and player movement. Some of that too is that they need more reps. They just need more reps. This is very different from other countries where it's like these guys have been playing together forever. How many times have you seen Patty Mills in an Australia jersey, right? Like there's so much of this that just comes from the consistency of these international teams and how they always have the same roster.

versus Team USA. It's like four years ago, we're bringing kind of a hodgepodge group, and then this year we're bringing everybody, right? And then four years from now, we're probably going to bring another hodgepodge group, right? Like, it's going to be just a bunch of random guys, maybe two or three of the higher level stars, right? So, like, this is kind of just how it goes with USA basketball.

And so it is a little clunky. And again, like, I believe Tatum, LeBron, and Steph know what they need to do. and I believe they are a functioning cogs in that system. I think Ant and Embed are where that's kind of breaking up. And it doesn't really have anything to do with what they are as NBA players because they're perfect within what their NBA teams need. It's just more within this particular team's context. And kind of like with the Celtics, it might not matter.

Like I actually did think the Celtics reached a pretty high level in that postseason relative to what their potential was. Like I think they squeezed a lot out of that sponge. But they were talented enough. that they could have won the title playing worst basketball, right? And that's the thing. This team USA team, they might win the gold medal even with clunkiness with the starting group and with Embed not really looking like a great fit.

And with Ant having scoring bursts but being a ball stopper sometimes. Like, I think they can still win with that, right? There is a threat of single elimination. I mean, look at this game today. It gets down to, I think Australia got it down to six, right? And they might have even got it down to three. They got it really close there in that mid-fourth corner. But like Patty Mills, wide-open corner three on kind of a chaotic sequence where he almost

turned it over, wide-open corner three, he misses it. The U.S. team goes down to the other end. Tyrese Halliburton, wide-open corner three, he makes it. Like, all of a sudden, the U.S. runs away with the game, right? But, like, that could very easily have gone the other way. So, like, single elimination, anything can go wrong. The U.S. team can build in more resiliency there and make themselves a less susceptible to a single game kind of weird outcome

if they improve on that offensive end of the floor. Again, I continue to be really impressed by the U.S. defensively when they're playing hard. Even with all their looks, even with their switching groups, even with their drop groups, I've been really happy with the U.S. defense. I just think they can still get to a higher level offensively by moving the ball from side to side.

Again, when they're this talented, they're going to have shifts where they make shots anyways. There's that awkward possession where LeBron is dribbling at the top. of the key and he kind of just hits a simple dribble move in an ISO that develops a catch and shoot three for Anthony Edwards. It's like that wasn't really a great offensive possession. LeBron and Aunt just saved it, right? Anthony Edwards is a step back three before the time out. It wasn't really a great offensive possession. It was a dribble up the floor ISO, but it's like Anthony Edwards is Anthony Edwards, right? And so I'm not trying to be critical in the sense that these guys are so good,

they might win it all anyway. I'm just saying in terms of giving themselves more margin for error, that I think they can still improve a lot on the offensive end of the floor. And again, every single time you see that bench group come in and you see Bam and Anthony Davis out there and you see Tyrese Halliburton and Devin Booker out there, they just immediately start to look like a more classic functional basketball team. Right. Like Anthony Davis and Bam at a bio have a lot of reps running five out. They know how to run this kind of offense.

And they're just a big part of it too is you need activity in terms of athleticism from your bigs in those looks. What that means is, is like, you got to have a guy that runs into the action, executes the dribble handoff, sets a good hard screen, rolls hard, slips out of it if that's the cut, if that's the read that's available in that situation. It's a lot of quick movement. And like, as much as we love Embed,

and again, I do think Embed's a better player than AD and BAM within the context of what he is for the Sixers, which is the best player on his team, right? But specifically in this context, like, Embeded is not an, active big. He's not running into actions and slipping out of them and like quickly getting open. He's not sprinting up and down the floor. He's not making multiple efforts on the defensive end of the floor. He's not as active on the glass as an Anthony Davis is. And so when you see Bam and AD get out there, it's like, whoa, look at these guys. AD, 17 points and 14 rebounds. He had seven

offensive rebounds and two blocks. A thing that Bam was doing that I thought was really important, he hit a bunch of jumpers around that elbow area, kind of in that like 15 to 17 foot range around the foul line. With the coverages that Australia was using, and they used a bunch of different coverages in this game, they were dropping on Anthony Edwards, but then they were like hedging and blitzing on guys like Halliburton and Booker and Steph Curry.

So like there were short roll opportunities in drop coverage. There were like kind of like roll opportunities around the foul line because on all drives and post-ups and ISOs, the Australian team is really loading up the strong side. And so there were a lot of opportunities where you would see BAM just kind of find a soft open spot around that foul line, and that's where he needed to make them pay for not guarding him. Because they weren't just ignoring shooters.

They were helping off of the bigs, and they were overplaying in that painted area. And so rolling hard into the paint could be an issue too, because there's just so much congestion in there. there's not really a lot of room to take off and get vertical spacing opportunities. So like that short roll around that foul line is where you can make Australia pay for bringing their bigs up along the baseline to attack ball handlers and guys that are posting up. And so bam hitting those shots, AD hit an elbow jumper, kind of catching with hooks

around the basket too, like just making yourself quickly available, catching and turning and firing a little left shoulder hook. Both AD and BAM hit those. Activity on the offensive glass. How many times in this game did we see BAM? a catch around the basket and like miss, but then AD would clean up the offensive glass or vice versa. Like they're just, those two guys were so active on their roles in crashing the offensive glass that it just was a huge problem for Australian and it added a layer to the offensive attack from

the USA team that just made them so much harder to guard. And again, they're just more functional bigs than a five out offense. I'm not trying to pick on Embed. It's just the reality of the fact that like Embed needs to be the best player on his team and he needs everything run through him. And you really saw that in that second half. How many times in that second half did you just see Embed like dribble the ball up the floor into a post up and then like try to spin into a hook shot and get blocked because he just didn't even see the double team coming or take a really bad contested hook shot in the lane as he tries to run everybody over to get inside.

Like it just it's just clunky. And that's the thing is like like Australia is like pretty hard doubling on him. Embed because they know that he's not going to handle it particularly well, and it just, it just looks clunky. And so, again, it's not really a commentary on Embed within the context of the Sixers. It's just strictly within this team. Bam and AD are just more natural fits. And it doesn't really matter because they're going to need him for the Serbia matchup. Like, I still think in the long run, you want AD in that starting lineup. We got to see a little bit of the starters with AD in the second half. But with that Serbia matchup, as much as I love

AD, and he does a good job on Yokic, Yokic can still kind of kind of bully him around on that block. He can't do that with Embed. And so he's important to have on the roster. He's a very important weapon. He's a specific adjustment that you can use against some of these bigger European front lines. But yeah, in terms of like just getting to what they want to get to offensively

with their perimeter players is just a little clunky. The late run from Australia. So they were, again, they were dropping on AIM, but then they were blitzing and hedging on Steph and Devin Booker. There were a lot of these short roll opportunities for Anthony Davis and Bamette a bio and there was just a lot of turnovers. The guys just weren't kind of cutting at the right time

and the role men weren't identifying that very well. Like they would catch and turn and then there was like some of it too was just like clunkiness where like there was one in the late fourth quarter where AD caught on the roll and made like a nice move to like throw a bounce past to Bam and Bam just like fumbled the ball. Right. And some of this too again like I talked

about earlier the Australian team, these guys all play together. Right? They play together all the time. This USA team doesn't have that continuity. They don't have that chemistry. They're still building that out. That comes in time. They had 18 turnovers today after 15 in the game against Canada. So 33 turnovers in two games with 10 minute quarters. That obviously is not good enough, but that's to be expected given the circumstances. I understand that part is something that will improve naturally as they continue to get more reps together. But once they got into that run,

the U.S. was really deliberate on the other end of the floor. They had a post-end, to Bam at a bio on the right block. He quickly drew a double team, kickout pass. Devin Booker had a really nice cut from the slot to make himself available to Bam. Bam hit him there. Devin Booker made a nice extra pass to Drew Holiday at the top of the key, who made a nice extra pass to Tyrese Halliburton in the corner as Australia was in rotation.

Wide open three knocked it down. Very next possession, a little ball screen action from Anthony Edwards and Bam on the left wing. and Australia helped out of the strong side corner, which happened to be Tyrese Halliburton. He knocked it down again, and then the game was over. And that was a huge defensive mistake from Australia because you never want to help out of the strong side corner in general,

but you definitely don't want to help on the same guy who just made a three from the same spot. And that ended up being what burned Australia. It's so funny how, like, we talk about matchups and we talk about personnel and all these different things. A lot of times basketball games come down to execution. And, like, to the U.S. team's credit, they executed really well down the stretch and they pulled it out.

But yeah, we're going to be covering the Serbia game on Wednesday. That one's going to be really fun with Yokic in there. But still I'm looking for more ball and player movement from both groups, but especially with the starters and then just kind of maintaining effort. I thought that was the other big one. They were up 24 and they kind of let their foot off the gas. You always got to be careful, especially in modern basketball with the three-point shot, with guys getting out in transition quickly.

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Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential.

Either way, the podcast, The last Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What's up, fam? It's Isaiah Thomas. And I'm C.J. Toledano, and our podcast, Point Game is about defying the odds. Like LeBron heading into the playoffs without Luca and Austin Reed.

And finding ways to win no matter what. He's the smartest player to ever play the game. His IQ is at a level that we've never seen before. And he knows. Without Luca and Austin Reeves, I got to manipulate the game. We get a player's perspective on the challenges of the playoffs. I think Joker's going to be exhausted this series because when they don't have Rudy in the lineup,

he has to really guard guys like Nas Reid. He has to guard Julius Randall. And then he has to give us everything he gives us on the night-to-night basis on offense. And when IT's friends stop by like Quentin Richardson, we dive into some playoff history too. Steve Nash will get that thing. That man, hell get the flying. He running up the court, licking his fingers

why he got the ball. Like, you go through a training camp with that Isaiah, you figure it out real quick. Get your ass up and down the court, and you're going to get the ball. So listen to Point Game on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. All right, let's move on to the mailbag.

There's no, whoops in my mailbag. What is your point? opinion on Grant Hills, we're building a team rhetoric as a, we're building a team rhetoric. As a Celtics and huge Jalen Brown fan, I get the white pickup. However, I'm confused as why Kauai was on the team in the first place and why Embed is playing as well. A couple things. Embedd, I think, is playing because he's the fifth best player in the world. And I think that, I think that, one, he's got just more star power than Jalen Brown. And I think that that kind of gives him a certain leg up in these discussions. Two, they absolutely need him for the Yol and

matchup. He's a specific matchup tool that they need. Why was Kauai Leonard on the roster? He's Kawhi Leonard. He's, you know, a guy that when he's healthy is considered in that same tier with all those guys at the top of the league, right? Like, this is a guy that like is going to hit 55% of his pull-up jumpers, 40% of its threes as an elite defensive player. Like he's, when Kauai is healthy, he's better than Jalen Brown. I don't know what else to say. Like, yeah, if I'm a general manager, I'd rather have Jailen Brown because for an 82 game season, I want Jailen Brown. I just trust him to be available more, more, right? But like, in terms of their ceilings, Kauai is a much better player than Jailan Brown when he is healthy. And so it also just kind of brings

a certain cachet, like if Kauai Leonard call, his agent calls Team USA and goes like, hey, Kauai's healthy and wants to play, like, they're going to answer in a different way, different way than they will for a player that's outside of that tier of the way that Jalen Brown is. As far as the Derek White piece, I didn't think it was that complicated. They're running a lot of drop coverage. I thought they'd be more of a switching team. They still do with the Anthony Davis-Bamm groups,

but they're running a lot of drop, especially with Embed on the floor. They only have one guy on the roster who's like a professional screen navigator and Drew Holiday. I think they view Jalen Brown as another switching forward, which they already have a lot of. And so they opted for a guard that kind of fits that specific role. as like an off-ball cog who also can chase over the top of ball screens and gives them two options there in case something happens with your holiday.

You got some flak for suggesting Canada should not have led up in the friendly against the U.S. Why do you think it's important for teams to push themselves even in pre-tournament games? I just think about it from the competitive nature side of it. Like if you're Canada, you want to beat USA. There's a chance that you don't even get to see them overseas by virtue of maybe just being in a different pool and in single limit. going different routes, right? So like, like, there's no guarantee you get to see him again. And what a cool moment. Like if you got, if you, I was there in the arena, guys. That was a, that was a

basketball moment. The arena was completely packed. There were all these celebrities and famous basketball people there. Both teams were trying super hard. Like, that would have been a cool game to win if you're Canada. And I just thought it was strange that they, they pulled the plug the way that they did while the game was still in reach. Again, I'm not, I'm not criticizing the decision in the I'm not saying it's wrong, but as a basketball fan, I wanted to see Canada go back to their starters. And then two, I just can say that I feel pretty confident that the actual Canada starters wanted to go back in. It was a decision from the staff because they are competitors and they wanted to beat the USA team. Who is the better win now player between Kaminga and

Pizamski? Seems to me like backup point guard is a bigger need than wing depth for the warriors with their current roster. Sounds like both would need to go for Lori, but it's a better. if you could somehow keep one of them, who do you trust more to help Steph win? Now, I'd give up both of them if that's what it took. But if I had to choose keeping one, I'd keep pots. Like, Kaminga's going to be a better player than Pizamski in the long run. He just has too many athletic gifts. But right now, Pazamsky is much more of an easy plug-in-play guy that fills a very specific

role, a guy who can run five out, a guy who can defend at the point of attack, a very good rebounder. He kind of fills that Dante DiVincenzo role from last year, right? like, or from two years ago, I should say. Like, I think Brandon Pizhamsky is much more capable of being a good rotation piece right now within the Warriors than Jonathan Kaminga. So take advantage of Jonathan Kaminga's long-term potential by using him as a trade piece. I know that there are still some Warriors fans that are hung up on Kaminga.

But, and again, I would give up both of them if that's what it took to get Lori. But if I had to keep one, I'd keep Pizamski. I think he's just a better fit in the short term. Jason, Denver fumbled big time. by not winning this year. Things undoubtedly get way harder for them. Had they won, I think you could have put Yokic in a top 20 discussion. Now I think he's firmly not in that. Couple this with the fact that he may win another ring. And then in parentheses he says, would say that he doesn't. So a couple things. I'm not ready to punt on Denver. I do think that they are a different basketball team now. One of the specific

things that I've always talked about is you have to pick your poison with Denver, right? You've got to double the post. You've got to defend pick and roll three on two. You need to put your, a lot of times, have a big man running that low man spot so that he can navigate the Aaron Gordon problem along the baseline, right? Like, there are things that they do, but a big part of that is KCP and Michael Porter Jr. on the weak side. They both are just incredibly efficient spot up players to the point where if you do send extra defenders, because that's the whole dynamic, right? You let Jamal Murray and Yolkits play two-man game two on two, you're screwed. Yeah, or three-man game, I would even call it with Aaron Gordon on the baseline.

If you defend that three-on-three, you're screwed. If you defend Yokic one-on-one in the post, you're screwed. If you switch and let Jamal Murray work on an island, you're screwed, right? But if you send extra defenders, here are these two, like, other worldly spot-up players on the other side of the floor. With KCP, it's more close-out attacking with Michael Porter Jr. It's more three-point shooting. But by the numbers, the two of those guys are two of the very best spot-up guys in the league. And so when you take a player like that and you turn him into, let's say, let's just say Christian Brown, right?

If it's Christian Brown, that goes from being a like cannot leave him open spot up guy to like somebody that's, here you go, 82nd percentile for Contavius Calvo Pope, 1.16 points per possession in spot up situations. That's really, really good. That's hard to replicate. And so let's just say they slide Christian Brown into that spot. Now all of a sudden it becomes a very simple thing. You're going to ignore Christian Brown the same way that you ignore Aaron Gordon. Those guys are still going to be active as athletes and they're still going to make a lot happen.

But as long as you're big enough around the rim to kind of contend with those guys vertically, you won't have to worry as much about chasing Christian Brown off the line. Now, there's, so there's no doubt that Denver got a little bit easier to guard with Contavius call what Pope going out. but most basketball teams have that same problem. Denver had this uniquely fitting starting five. Now they have four of those guys and they're going to have a downgrade at one of those positions, but they're still going to be really, really difficult to guard. Yokic is still the best player in the world. The Yokich Murray two-man game is still incredibly difficult to deal with.

Aaron Gordon is still a handful underneath the basket. They're not going anywhere. It's just their margin for error has gone down a little bit. A couple things. I think Christian Brown is probably spending his entire summer focusing on ball-sacal skills, like the ability to run second side action, the ability to hit catch and shoot threes consistently and to drive closeouts because he knows that could potentially be his role. And then who knows, like, Gary Trent Jr. is still out there. And of all of the spots that I think, and I want Gary Trent Jr. to go to the Lakers, that would be ideal because I think they need an athlete at that two-guard spot, but I don't

think he's going to go there. And if I was Gary Trent Jr., and I did have to take something like a veteran minimum contract, which, like, hopefully it doesn't end up being the case for his sake. I think he's probably going to end up getting the taxpayer mid-level. But like, if he ends up going to take a discount, if you were to play one year in Denver alongside Yokic,

he could go on a deep playoff run and then sign a much more lucrative deal next summer if that's what he wants. Whereas right now, Gary Trent's kind of in that weird kind of limbo where if he goes next year and has kind of a tough year where

he's maybe he takes more money at at a mid-level exception somewhere, but he's playing for some bad team, and he continues to kind of show some of his bad habits that he has shown in the last couple of seasons. That could put him in a situation where he suddenly becomes a veteran minimum guy in the future. And so, like, we've seen before

guys take veteran minimum deals on really good teams that make deep playoff runs and then get more lucrative deals after. We just saw it with Derek Jones Jr., right, going to the Clippers and getting a little bit of a paycheck. And so Gary Trent's a guy that, like, Fingers crossed, maybe a team like Denver could get to solidify that two-guards spot. But the reality is, the more likely outcome is it ends up being a lot of Christian Brown.

And there's an upside there. As much as Christian Brown is not as good offensively as KCP, I actually do think with his size and strength advantage, he's a little bit more versatile defensively. And he does change the athletic profile of that team in a real way. Like, he was the one guy in that Timberwolf series that kind of contended with Anthony Edwards, athletically. And so I don't think Denver's going anywhere. They've obviously had a disappointing offseason. The Dayron Holmes, Achilles, terror is devastating. I had heard that they pretty much

intended for him to play a lot of backup center next year. They viewed him as an NBA ready kind of guy. And so super, super unfortunate, but don't take away from the fact that you still have Jamal Murray, you still have Michael Porter Jr. You still have Nicole Yokut. You still have Aaron Gordon. You still have the gist of what makes the nuggets, the nuggets in-house. And I also think that Yokic is going to be on a little bit of a revenge tour this year. And I think that he's going to be the best player in the world. And so I just have a really hard time riding off the Denver Nuggets. And as of right now, there's still my favorite to win the West going into next season. When KD comes back, who loses the starting spot? So I think KD's the easiest

plug-in-play guy in the league, because he's such good shooters, such a good close-out attacker, but can also run action, can also beat matchups. And he's also a very good defensive player when he wants to be. So, like, I would probably just slide Tatum to the two and move KD into the starting lineup and I'd take Ant off the bench. Don't think we're going to see that. I just got into the starting lineup, hit a bunch of shots again today. I expect Ant to start. But if I was coaching the team, I would go with Steph Tatum, KD, LeBron, and Anthony Davis

at the five and I would switch everything. And I think that group would really get the ball moving side to side. And then I'd let Ant come in with the bench group and be like, here are the keys. You and MB'd want to take turns playing one-on-one. go ahead and be my guest, do it with the bench group, right? Because I just, I think that starting group needs to get more side to sideball and player movement. Since the Celtics won, do you think some of Missoula's philosophies will become more pervasive around the league? Things like heavy ball and player movement, driving kick, and an emphasis on getting back on defense, attacking the margins, etc.

Love the show. Keep up the great work. Thank you for the sport. I think, you know, Missoula won me over in a big way in this postseason run. And a big part of it, too, was like, I, I did it. acknowledge enough during some of the downsides with Boston over the last couple of years that they were learning, meaning the players. Just because the Celtics went down and took five or six bad threes in a row doesn't mean Joe Missoula's in the huddle saying dribble up the floor and take bad threes, right? Joe Missoula preaches being deliberate about setting up your spacing. Joe Missoula preaches being deliberate about getting the right matchup and the right

spot of the floor to get the defense and rotation. Joe Missoula preaches attacking and playing quality driving kick basketball from there, getting paint touches, but then making good decisions when you get into the paint, chasing the great shot, not the good shot. Joe Missoula teaches all of that stuff. It just took a while for the Celtics to really embrace it the way that they did, right? And like, their ugly moments, and they were, they were dominant this year, but their ugly moments, blowing the Cavs game, blowing the Warriors game. They're, what were they, two and four against the top three teams in the Western Conference, right? Like, their issues that they had this season primarily centered around not doing what Joe Mazzulo was asking them to do.

As far as, like, it being copied around the league, everything has to do with your personnel. You got to be really careful with taking a coaching philosophy and inflicting it on a roster. You want to look at your roster and you want to build a coaching philosophy that fits that. roster, right? And so, for instance, Boston has a lot of guys that have real downhill athleticism that can beat people off the dribble. And from there, they've got a lot of shooting. So for them, driving kick basketball makes a ton of sense. But there are teams out there where driving kick doesn't make a ton of sense, right? And like a big part, like for instance, with Dallas last year, they had all these play finishers. And so it made sense for them to,

you know, be a little bit more deliberate in a half court and, you know, use your offball guys more is play finishers rather than advantage extenders, right? Like, that's what makes sense for that particular roster. And so that said, like, I do think that more teams that have that type of roster should embrace more of a driving kick style. I think that you will see more and more of it. Anytime you see a team hoist the trophy, it's copycat league. People try to pull from what's being successful elsewhere around the league. As far as the emphasis on attacking the margins, this is something that I've always been a huge believer. in and it's something that's boring to talk about and it's something that every single player

knows it's just it's strictly a discipline thing like yeah if you become an elite defensive rebounding team because you're scrappy and you box out and you pursue long rebounds that will help you win games there's no dramatic schematic element to that it's just committing to the work and doing what you need to do to be a good defensive rebounding team transition defense there are some kind of schematic elements to it, right? Like you want to get back and stop the ball and protect the paint and then you want to fan out to shooters from there. It's a lot of talking and communicating. But at the end of the day, it's effort. You got to sprint back in transition. There's got to be a focus element of it too when you're on offense identifying floor balance. Like, oh, this guy's

driving in a pick and roll on the right wing. I'm on the left wing. I can't crash because the roll man and the ball handler are going to be underneath the rim when this is over. I'm the only guy who's back. I'm going to start kind of drifting here a little bit. As soon as I identify, the ball is not going to make its way to me, right? Like, there's a focus element, but most of it is just sprinting. You got to put in the work to get back in transition. Like being deliberate about executing offensively is an attacking the margins thing.

Like, the vast majority of NBA teams are more efficient when they run action versus when they freelance. Being more deliberate about running action is an easy way to kind of squeeze more out of the margins of the game, right? we can go on and on and on and like being really good with your execution on sideline and baseline out of bounds plays like being really good with your execution in late game situations. There are all these different areas of the game where you can kind of, you know, squeeze out a little extra, right? And I just don't understand why every team doesn't do that or at least like put in a ton of effort in those areas simply because like those are things that are under your control. You can't control if Yokic is just better than your center.

You can't control if nobody on your team can guard Anthony Edwards. You can't control if you get back in transition. You can't control if you're at least a competitive defensive rebounding team. And again, there's a personnel element to rebounding too, size, strength, and athleticism. But as long as you do all the right things, you give yourself a better chance. And so, again, I love that philosophy. I do think that that's something that every team in the league can do.

But as far as the specific offensive philosophy of Boston, it is kind of unique to their personnel. and there are teams that will try and fail at it because they don't have the right kind of guys. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football,

or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite. athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast, it's a space for honest conversations,

stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So, if you've ever supported me, or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque.

Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What's up, fam? It's Isaiah Thomas. And I'm C.J. Toledano, and our podcast, Point Game is about defying the odds.

Like LeBron heading into the playoffs without Luca and Austin Reed. And finding ways to win no matter what. He's the smartest player to ever play the game. His IQ is at a level that we've never seen before. knows. Without Luca and Austin Reeves, I got to manipulate the game. We get a player's perspective on the challenges of the playoffs.

I think Joker's going to be exhausted this series because when they don't have Rudy in the lineup, he has to really guard guys like Nas Reid. He has to guard Julius Randall. And then he has to give us everything he gives us on the night-to-night basis on offense. And when IT's friends stop by, like Quentin Richardson,

we dive into some playoff history too. Steve Nass would get that thing. That man, hell get the flying. He running up the court, licking his fingers, why he got the ball. Like, after you go through a training camp with that, Isaiah, you figure it out real quick. Oh, yeah. Get your ass up and down the court, and you're going to get the ball. So listen to Point Game on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Do you think the Mavs will start Naji over Clay and have Clay be the sixth man at some point in the season? They announce that they will start Clay first, but to me, I feel Naji fits better with the starters and have Clay fill the Tim Hardaway Jr. your role. So I've been hearing the same thing that Clay Thompson is going to start. I don't know how that works defensively at all whatsoever. I feel like a lot of it's a concession to Clay in just his circumstance and the fact that he wants to start. But like in the long run, you need somebody that can guard Anthony Edwards the way that Derek Jones Jr. did. That can guard the other team's best guard. And who's going to guard Shade Gills with Alexander and Jalen Williams, right? Like it just, it's a lot to ask for Clay and Kyrie Irving to do that.

If you take PJ Washington and you utilize him as your primary point of attack defender, now you've removed your low man, right? That dynamic of the center, lively in this case, being able to come up to the level of screens because PJ Washington is behind him and that dynamic of that low man, you lose that if that becomes Clay. And Clay did not have a great season last year as a defensive rebounder and as an off-ball defender. And so that, like, putting him in that role, I think could lead to some messy results

as well. Naji's not as good of a point of attack defender as Derek Jones Jr. is, but he is a good point of attack defender's physical and can slide his feet. And then he's a much higher level offensive player than Derek Jones, Jr. Derek Jones, Jr., a really good ball handler for a role player guard, has some, like, off-the-dribble pop. And so, like, I don't know if that means Naji starts, because I don't think Nazi is just like a shoe-in starting caliber player.

He's kind of more of like a rotational player anyway. But the moving clay in the starters is going to lead to some issues on the defensive floor. There's no doubt. The question is, can they get enough offensively out of it for it to be worth it? Feels like KCP to the Magic has been completely overlooked. What are your thoughts on the move as well as them drafting Tristan to Silva? I was just talking about this earlier with the Nuggets, but KCP was an 82nd percentile spot-up player last year.

One of the best kind of like catch-and-shoot drive close-out guys in the league. That was a specific weakness for Orlando, right? the ability to score from the perimeter and that allowing Cleveland to really pack the paint against them, right? So KCP just gives you more shooting. It's really that simple. It's just something to try to make things easier for Franz and for Palo Boncaro. He's a professional close-out attacker. And that is something that will make things easier for them on the offensive end of the floor. He's also a very good point of attack defender. Just a much better version of Gary Harris in somebody that it makes the magic. You basically, you're just upgrading a starting position.

into a championship level starter, a proven championship level starter that's done it in two different destinations. So I love the KCP pickup. I think he's going to make the magic better. As far as Tristan De Silva, it's just kind of doubling down on what makes the magic great, which is just lots of length and guys that kind of bring that versatile length on the perimeter, right?

Just the forwards that can dribble shoot and pass. That's what makes the magic the magic, and Tristan De Silva's a natural fit there. Who do you think will rank higher at the end of their career? Anthony Edwards or Sheigold's Alexander. I think it's more likely Ant. I just think he's a more superior athlete. I also think Ant is a more dynamic three-point shooting talent,

which I think will benefit him well in the long run. I think Ant can be a better defender too as things get... I think when Aunt is Shay's age, there's a decent chance that he's the best player in the world. Like, that's how highly I think of Ant. So I think that Ant will be a better player than Shea in the long run. Hey, Jason, do you think the way AD is playing right now in the Olympics that the Lakers realize getting a big is necessary

if they want to contend for another title, and who can you see the Lakers trading for? This is tricky because what people are referring to, there were some plays, there were plays in this Australia game, where Ant was the low man, where, like, Bam was up at the level of the screen, dealing with, like, Patty Mills coming off in action,

and Aunt was, like, tagging a roller and then closing out to a three-point shooter in the corner. And, yeah, it'd be great to have AD as a low man, but it'd be great to have Bam at a bio, too. And that's the thing is it's probably not going to, if you get a second big to play a long, alongside AD, it's not going to be BAM meta bio. Most importantly, you've got to look at the context of the Lakers roster.

They're playing AD next to BAM without LeBron on the floor with Team USA. With the Lakers, I'd love to see an AD at the four look that they use throughout the season is just like an innings eater kind of thing. But the truth of the matter is you're always going down with LeBron and AD. And LeBron at age 40 is effectively another big. He has to play the four. He has to be the low man. And so, like, the way I look at it, this ship always goes down for the Lakers with AD at the five no matter what.

And so while I do think it's worth looking at backup fives that are an upgrade that could make life easier for AD, I don't think it matters if it's not within the context of what they can actually use at the end of games. And so investing heavily, like investing heavy resources in a backup center, I think would be a waste. Who's the five you're going down with? You're going down with Austin Reeves at the one, LeBron and AD, and then a two and a three. And that two and a three is not good enough right now. It's a lot of Rui Hachamura losing Michael Porter Jr. And a huge fourth quarter possession because he doesn't know how to play the three. And DeAngelo Russell getting out hustled for a rebound or just not doing his job on the defensive glass because he sucks at role player stuff.

So like those two guys are the two upgrades that need to be made. And like any sort of resource allocation in terms of draft compensation or young players, need to be directed at the two and the three. Because those are the two spots that when the shit hits the fan and you're trying to get a stop against the Denver Nuggets in game four, and it's 99 to 99, and you got PTSD from all those times that Jamal Murray hit a game winner in your face, the group you're going to go down with in the final five minutes of that game

is 80 at the five, LeBron at the four, Austin Reeves at the one, who are you playing at the two and three? That's where they need to invest their resources. I would not agree with spending heavy draft compensation on a guy like Wendell Carter Jr. I really like Wendell. I like the idea of him playing next to Anthony Davis even. But I don't like it within the context of LeBron playing the three because he's 40 years old. And at the three point, at the three right now, you need someone who can navigate screens.

The Lakers need LeBron in ADW, 4, 5, and they need their two and three to be athletes that can chase over the top of the screen. It is a must for them. in order to achieve their potential offense on the defensive end of the four. And again, 80 looks fantastic, and LeBron's going to be coming out of a team USA thing, so he's going to be like kind of geared up for this season. I'm a believer in the Lakers if they can bolster the two and three. I don't think they're that far off, but I do not believe in their ability to do anything until they address those two positional needs.

And like, when we talk about, I'll just skip ahead to the Laker question, How far can the Lakers get as currently constructed? As currently constructed, they are what you saw last year. They're a team that's good enough to beat anybody except for the real championship contenders. I think the Lakers would have beat a team like Minnesota. I don't think they would have beat Dallas, especially not without Jared Vanderbilt.

They were one of those random teams in that matchup group were like past the Nuggets. It was like Thunder. Well, Thunder actually got the one seed, but Denver is my best team in the West. it was like Thunder, Timberwolves, Mavericks, Clippers, Sons, Lakers. Those teams were all on the same tier, in my opinion, and they were all matchup oriented. It just turned out that Minnesota had a really strong matchup advantage against Denver in particular,

but Minnesota sucks against rim protection. They got their butts kicked by Dallas. They would have gotten their, I think they would have gotten their butts kicked by the Lakers. I think it would have been the exact same thing. I think they would have just loaded up the strong side. Anthony Davis would have shut down the paint, same way that Derek lively and Daniel Gafford did against Anthony Edwards. I think that the same strength advantages that LeBron and Anthony Davis have

would have caused the same problems for Minnesota's defense that Luca Donchich did. Those teams were all beaten each other. But at the same time, we know the Lakers' particular weakness was teams that could really manipulate their spacing and take advantage of the weak side could beat them because of their lack of perimeter defenders. I think Luca would have picked the Lakers apart. I think that would have been an issue, right? Like, had the Lakers run into a playoff series

against really quick perimeter teams, like the Sacramento Kings, I think the Lakers would have lost that series, right? So, like, right now, the Lakers are capable of beating everybody except for the really good teams, but they're even vulnerable within that matchup tier in the middle of the league. I think if they accentuate that two and three spot, if they turn that shooting guard spot

and that small forward spot into athletes that can defend and at least are competent on the offensive end of the floor, that's where I think the Lakers have the potential to enter into that top tier in the Western Conference. A guy like Bruce Brown at the two, I think would be huge. A guy like Dorian Finney Smith at the three. Literally, if they just pulled those two moves off. I know, Dorian Finney Smith and Bruce Brown are not necessarily that much better basketball players than D. Lower and Rui Hachamura.

It's specifically about the fit. DeLo and Rui are redundant. Dilo is redundant with Austin. Rui is redundant with LeBron. Doreen-Finney-Smith is a three, a real three. Bruce Brown is a two, a real two. Those guys, and Bruce Brown needs to be a two next to a real skill guard, like a Jamal Murray or in this case in Austin Reeves.

That makes sense. Doreen-Finney-Smith, he's not a high-level offensive player, so he needs to capitalize on advantages. He needs to be the three next to. multiple ball handling fulcrums. Well, A.D. LeBron and Austin Reeves have you covered there. And so those are the kinds of moves that I think could like on the margins that can move the Lakers into a more serious level of basketball on both ends of the floor. I'm worried about the Lakers doing that

because in order to get good basketball players, you have to spend draft compensation. How did the Dallas Mavericks get Daniel Gafford and PJ Washington? Draft compensation. Are the Lakers willing to pay what it costs to get high-level role players that accentuate what their best players do. That's going to be the question we're going to find out the answer to over the course of the rest of the summer. Two more quick ones, and we'll get out of here. Tatum's shooting percentage in his pull-up jumper efficiency has decreased in each of the last three or four post seasons, and you've said it's just the peaks and valleys that come with

shooting variants, but I think it's what he does in the offseason and all the weight training. Here's the thing. It didn't really matter how much you lift weights as long as you continue to polish up your shot. There are a lot of really buff guys around the league that can shoot. That, to me, is a cop out. I mean, Desmond Bain literally, like, looks like a cartoon character with how big his arms are on his body. And the dude's, like, just an absolute laser from the three-point line. Like, Quay Leonard is built like an absolute truck, and he can shoot like crazy, right?

So, like, to me, it's just right now, Tatum's going through some stuff with his form. He's got a little bit of a hitch right now. You can tell he's a little bit just generally slumping in terms of his confidence. He airballed a corner three in the USA Australia game today. So, like, I think he'll get out of it. But right now the big thing for me is I just see a little bit of a hitch as he's gathering his shot as he's kind of coming up in front of his chest into a shooting pocket. He's just a little bit hitchy there and that's the thing he's got to work out. Last question. Do you think Luca can be considered the second best player on the planet after getting exposed for all time bad defense in the finals?

And then he put in parentheses so bad it's impossible to win with. One thing here. Boston, let's credit Boston in the sense that they are uniquely equipped to punish teams that typically need to hide one of their lesser defensive players. I think there are a lot of stars in the league that would have struggled against Boston. I think Yokic would have struggled on defense against Boston. I think a guy like a Steph Curry might have struggled against Boston defensively. I think that a lot of like the slower-footed players would have struggled, right? Like I don't think they would have been as bad as Luca.

I think Luca was exceptionally bad and I think that's something that he needs to deal with. but I think he's going to deal with it this summer too. I think that was kind of a humbling experience for him. But I think Boston in general just kind of made that situation look worse than it actually was. And I'm not ready to bail on Luca as one of the best players in the world because he had a bad playoff series. A lot of really good players before him have that bad playoff series and have rebounded. All right, guys, that's all I have for today. We're going to run this mailbag as a breakout tomorrow.

I'll be back on Wednesday morning. We're going to break down Serbia versus the USA. Yokic v. M. That one should be a ton of fun. I will see you guys then. Another podcast from some SNL late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and Friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier.

This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. What's up, fam? It's Isaiah Thomas.

And I'm C.J. Toledano. It's our favorite time of the year on our podcast, Point Game, the playoffs. We're digging into the biggest surprises of the season. And I'm looking back on some of my greatest playoff moments. If we didn't talk ever again, I was hungry. You just understood. That's how personal it got. Wow. Then after that game seven, Marquis come in to you, he's like, you know I love you, dog. You know, it's all love. This was just playoffs. This was just basketball. So listen to Point Game on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your Podcast. Will Ferrell's Big Money Players and IHart Podcast presents soccer moms. So I'm Leanne. Yeah. This is my

best friend, Janet. Hey. And we have been joined at the hips since high school. Absolutely. A redacted amount of years later, we're still joined at the hip. Just a little bit bigger hips. This is a podcast. We're recording it as we tailgate our youth soccer games in the back of my Honda Odyssey. With all the snacks and drinks. Why did you get hard seltzer instead of beer? Oh, they hit a bogo. Well, then you got it. Listen to soccer moms on the Iheart radio app. Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.