The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Hoops Tonight - USA-Serbia Reaction: LeBron James & Team USA in FULL FORM, rout Jokic & Team Serbia

Episode Date: July 18, 2024

Jason Timpf reacts to LeBron James, Steph Curry, and Team USA's dominant 105-79 win over Nikola Jokic and Serbia in their exhibition ahead of the Olympic Games in Paris. Jason discusses Anthony Davis' strong start to the summer, Anthony Edwards' growing role, and why this was the best version of Team USA we have seen so far. Later, Jason discusses the state of Giannis Antetokounmpo, Damian Lillard, and the Milwaukee Bucks ahead of the 2024 NBA season before answering listener questions during a mailbag segment. #volume #Herd Timeline (Timestamps may vary based on advertisements) 03:00 - USA-Serbia Reaction 22:20 - State of the Bucks 34:30 - NBA MailbagSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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play against the best basketball team in the world. As Nicole Yokic and Serbia faced off with Team USA, we're going to break that game down from a bunch of different angles. After that, in the last couple of days, the Milwaukee Bucks rounded out an impressive offseason by signing Gary Trent Jr. For the veteran minimum deal,

which brings them to three really interesting free agent signings between Gary Trent, Tori and Prince and Delon Wright. So I want to kind of talk about each of those three guys within the context of how they fit with what Milwaukee does and just talk a little bit about the Bucks offseason from 30,000 feet.

Just kind of look at it as we head into next season. And after that, I'm going to hit a bunch of mailbag questions that we didn't hit in the mailbag on Monday. Gonna bounce around into a bunch of different topics around the league. You guys know the drill before we get started. Subscribe to the Hoops Tonight YouTube channel so you don't miss any more of our videos. Follow me on Twitter and underscore Jason LT so you guys don't miss show announcements.

Don't forget about our podcast feed, wherever you get your podcast under hoops tonight. And then keep dropping mailbag questions in those YouTube comments so we can keep hitting them throughout the rest of the summer. All right, let's talk some basketball. So the showdown between Yokic and Serbia and Team USA kind of went, you saw the best of both worlds, right? It was tied at 40 at one point in the late second quarter because guess what? Nicole Yokicch, still most likely the best basketball players. in the world. And when you surround him with good ball movement and shooting, that just works. It works because Yokic always keeps the ball moving from side to side. He sets really good screens. If you bring

double teams, he's always going to find a way to make the right decision to beat you for that. There was a specific play in this game where Yokic was posting up AD along the left block. And he kind of worked along towards the middle. And Bamadabio came with like a late double. team along the baseline side. And right as he came with that double team along the baseline side, the guy Bam was guarding relocated to the right wing for a three-point shot. And Yokic went and spun, saw Bam immediately identified it, rifled across the court pass that hit the shooter right in the shooting pocket on the right

wing. He shot it and missed it. And then somehow in that thick of bodies, including Bam and AD, Yokic just rose up over everybody and got the offensive rebound and flipped in a little hook shot that just swished through the net. You're like, oh my gosh, this dude is just a complete force of nature. It was obviously a lot of fun to watch him. But Serbia eventually ran out of gas and started missing shots. A big part of that, I thought, in my opinion, had to do with the defensive strategy that Serbia went with. From the opening tip, they were putting a ton

of ball pressure, especially in the back court. They got an early steal on Steph for a runout dunk. They were just picking up guys full court, even in the half court, just really pressuring the ball. trying to deny catches, like little things like one of the first USA possessions. They're trying to get the ball to Drew Holiday at the top of the key to run a screening action for Steph. And like Drew has to catch all the way out at half court just because his man is just hounding him all the way up there. They're top blocking Steph. It was just a super, super aggressive defense. And I thought they ran out of gas.

Like it's just really hard to do that and then to make shots on the other end of the floor. And Team USA was throwing those extra defenders. at At Yokich that constantly had either BAM or AD kind of along that backline getting ready to send that late help. And so it was important for those guys to knock down shots and they just went cold. And then one of the things too in pick and roll, they were ducking underneath ball screens on Vasilaj Mietich. And again, like, you got to think of it this way as a coverage. When the guy's chasing over the top, he's funneling him into the lane. The dribble penetration is kind of baked in and then it becomes more on the big to like corral the roll.

man and the ball handler as he comes downhill. Once you start ducking under picks, it completely changes the dynamic of the possession. Now the on-ball defender is just kind of going to meet you on either side as you come off. And so you have to beat that as the offensive player by stepping behind that pick and knocking down that pull-up three. And I think he was like one for six. He just couldn't get it going. And so as Serbia went cold, Team USA started getting out in transition and they just blew the game open. They went on a 40 to 11 run. after Serbia went up 34 to 28 and it was over from there. Super, super impressive stretch from Team USA.

That was probably the best they've looked in these, have they played three games now? Yeah, so like through three games, this is the best they've looked in that 42-11 run. Both units, again, Kerr's been doing a lot of line changes, although we mixed it up a little bit in the later portion of the game, but both of those units had extended dominant runs, really impressive stretch for Team USA.

I have five notes that I want to hit from Team USA. One, they went back to Anthony Edwards off the bench. And again, I talked about this after last game. Like, it played really well with the starters. It four shots in his first shift at 11 points. But, like, that unit still wasn't moving really well side to side. And I thought Kerr identified that and said, look, if Ant's going to be super aggressive with the ball in his hands,

let's put him with the bench group and tell him to just go nuts. And let's bring in a ball mover into that starting lineup, a guy like Drew Holiday. And another thing you draw it does really well that fits well with that starting group is he's really good at cutting along the baseline. Again, when you think of like five out spacing, if everyone actually stood in five spots around the three point line, you're not very far apart from each other. And so a lot of times, like, it can be easier to guard two guys with one on the weak side because those guys just aren't very far apart. And so one of the ways you can manufacture spacing, again, we talk about this all the time. Five out spacing does not necessarily mean you're always on the perimeter.

It just means you're not permanently occupying the dunker spot in any capacity, that area around the paint. You're rolling into the paint, you're cutting into the paint, you're driving into the paint, but you're not standing in the paint. What that means, though, is like there are opportunities when you drive and kick and the ball's kind of moving around and everything's in the blender, for you to kind of pause on a cut right around that area underneath the basket. And the Celtics did a ton of this with both Derek White and Drew Holiday, but especially Drew Holiday, by having their guards as they're cutting through kind of linger around the basket. And so, like, Drew Holiday is just kind of a better cog within a five-out system that makes him a better fit with that starting group.

And so, again, you put Ant on the bench, he comes right in, immediately starts hitting pull-up threes against Serbia's drop coverage. Like, that's what you want. You want it to come in and look to be aggressive. He was playing passing lanes. He was getting steals. He was getting out in transition. It was awesome.

And you could argue, Ant's one of the top five players on the first. the team. But it's not about that within the context of trying to make a basketball lineup work. And so I agreed with that move from Steve Kerr. We saw another Steph Heater, especially in that first half, he had 18 points. A lot of offball screening stuff, like screen the screener stuff to try to take advantage of the fact that they were top locking him and understanding you can't just run him off a screen. It's got to be a little bit more complicated than that. They're running some flex cuts. That's where you have Steph set a cross-screen for Tatum as he comes off. And then after that, Steph will come off of a pin down as it comes up to the top of the,

around that right wing area, hit a three out of that flex set. It was just kind of a classic Steph heater there in that first half. It was really fun to watch. He capped it off with a step back three on the left wing for an and one. 80 and bam, once again, the two most impressive bigs. I'm going to skip ahead to Embed for a second because I did think Embedde was better in this game. Rough first shift again, you know, still had some sloppy turnovers, but he did start to see some of these reads.

He had a little bit of a give and go with Drew Holiday, where Drew Holiday cut back door, he had a nice play on a split cut out of a post up on the left side of the floor where he was able to identify, I think it was Steph Curry breaking open along the left wing in that action. He had a play on the short role where when he caught on the roll, instead of catching and looking to score, he caught and looked on the weak side and identified the open shooter on the weak side,

You can see Embed is starting to get a little better in these reps that he's getting at keeping the ball moving from side to side. And, you know, Steve Kerr said after the game that he's pretty married to the idea of Embed there being with the starters. And so if that's the case, these little bit of these little improvements from game to game are going to be really important before they get to the actual Olympics. And I would imagine that Steve Kerr is preaching to him off the floor, like keep the ball moving in that group. everyone's got to sacrifice, everyone's got to play for each other in order for this unit to reach its ultimate potential. And Embed did a better job of that, I thought today. I thought Embed's best game with Team USA so far was today. Even though he still had a lot of turnovers, a lot of sloppiness, there was that play where LeBron hits him with the perfect backdoor cut pass.

And he's like wide open underneath the basket. And instead of just shooting a layup, he like just jumped back into Yokic to try to draw a foul. It was completely absurd. And honestly, like, Embed just got to, it has to cut that shit. out. He still had his moments, but I thought it was a really good game from Embed relative to the past just by virtue of the decisions he was making in the five out. But AD and Bam again were just amazing. AD was everywhere defensively and on the glass. You can make the case, Anthony Davis has been the best player for Team USA so far through three games, which coming off of that playoff run where he

basically went toe to toe with Yokic and like straight up barbecue him in the post one-on-one. And 80 is playing at some insanely high level right now. And I really hope the Lakers invest in that before it's too late. Because you've got yourself a guy there that's playing at a top five level and has been playing at a top five level in multiple settings over the course the last few months. You have a chance with him to put those draft picks to use and to try to bring a high level player in here and try to make something out of this final run for LeBron and AD. And I hope the Lakers do so.

Bam's jump shot, once again, that was a big thing in the second game, if you guys remember against Australia. The little soft spot in Australia's coverage was that area around the elbow where Bain was kind of short rolling into. He was hitting jumpers once again today, just knocking down that three-point shot. And that's something that could be really exciting in the long run for Miami, because that unlocks all sorts of possibilities. It unlocks what if we put BAM at the four and we put another big center next to him, which is literally what he's doing with AD right now. You're watching AD and BAM demonstrate for you

what a too big lineup can look like. When you have the flexibility to have a guy who can guard the best post player and guard all pick and roll actions while also keeping a freaky defensive talent on that backline to either backside help, rotate to the weak side shooter, or clean up the defensive glass. And that duo is just demonstrating for you what that effect is. But it depends on the fact that there's a certain level of offensive skis.

and spacing. And like if Bam's going to be able to shoot like that in the long run, we saw just a little hint of it last year with Miami, seeing a bigger hint of it now with Team USA. If that's something that develops for him, that could be huge, especially since like finishing around the rim is actually a little bit of a weakness for Bam in terms of his touch shots within like five feet of the rim. And so if you kind of move him into more of a four, that could be something that's really exciting, but it depends on that three-point shot, staying effective. But shout out to 80 and Bam. And then last, guy I wanted to shout out was LeBron.

LeBron did a lot of work in this particular game, operating from the top of the key, either with a triple threat or a live dribble, as off-ball action was taking place behind him along the baseline. I thought this was fascinating because I was listening to a friend of mine, Pete Zeyas, you guys know him, you Laker fans will know him as Laker Film Room. And I was listening to his pod that he did yesterday,

and he was talking about how the Lakers ran a lot, lot of pick and roll in their five out last year, but that he wants to see the Lakers put LeBron and AD more at the middle of the floor, not operating with ball screens, but rather just operating with a triple threat while off ball action is taking place, because multiple things can happen there. LeBron as a fulcrum is such a good passer that if guys make mistakes in that off ball action and they break free underneath the basket or break free, excuse me, along the three-point line, he's going to hit those reads on time and on target. But the second piece of it is, if all defenders get dragged into it, then he can look to be aggressive. And there was a,

there was a, a lot of that in this particular game, but like you saw that specific dynamic take place where LeBron probably hit a half dozen different guys cutting along the baseline. Some of them got botched too. Like M.B. tried to grift his way on that one. There was the one where he hit Drew Holliday right under the basket for a layup and then Drew just forced to an extra pass that was unnecessary to imbid, cutting to the basket. But a bunch of guys got layups and dunks out of that. He was hitting three-point shooters coming off of those actions. And then late in the game, there was a sequence where a lot of off-ball action was taking

place. And then LeBron ended up getting a quick ball screen and got all the way to the rim and laid it up because none of the off-ball defenders are keyed in on LeBron as a score because he's been doing so much playmaking from the top of the key. I actually thought that that game against Serbia was a really, first of all, it's a really smart way to use LeBron with this group. LeBron is very, very comfortable taking away the offensive aggression elements of his game and just functioning as like a passing fulcrum.

That's a role that he's willing to do. And on a team where there are some guys that are kind of yanking at the reign, so to speak, guys like Joel Embed, guys like Anthony Edwards, like on a team like that where guys are being aggressive, having a guy who's willing to kind of function as a fulcrum is super important. It puts Steph into all those offball actions that he's accustomed to running with Golden State. Although Steph did some on ball work as well. But like that is just a really smart way to use him.

And then the second piece of it is it's like a sneak peek of what I expect JJ Reddick to do a lot more with the Lakers this upcoming season, which is a little bit less pick and roll, a little bit more LeBron catching with the triple threat or Anthony Davis catching with the triple threat in the middle of the floor. As you have guys like Austin Reeves, Daldon Connect, DeAngelo Russell, those dudes working. as of working in offball action. And it could be a Rui Hachamara slipping to the rim on a screen or Jared Vanderbilt slipping to the rim on a screen. That's a, again, five out is all about variety. And if you just lean into ball screens,

you're limiting the different types of opportunities that you can generate with that kind of spacing. And again, the idea is if everybody's running this off ball action and your fulcrum is at the top of the key, there's nobody under the basket. And so when those opportunities to slip into that space are available, need someone who can make those reads and I thought LeBron did a really nice job of that. Again, best they've looked so far through three games was during that 40 to 11 run.

Really nice progress for Team USA so far. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined.

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And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's superhuman documented it all. Embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds.

I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What's up, fam? It's Isaiah Thomas. And I'm C.J. Toledano, and our podcast Point Game is about defining the odds. Like LeBron heading into the playoffs without Luca and Austin Reed. And finding ways to win no matter what. He's the smartest player to ever play the game. game. His IQ is at a level that we've never seen before. And he knows. Without Luca and

Austin Reeves, I got to manipulate the game. We get a player's perspective on the challenges of the playoffs. I think Joker's going to be exhausted this series because when they don't have Rudy in the lineup, he has to really guard guys like Nas Reid. He has to guard Julius Randall. And then he has to give us everything he gives us on the night-to-night basis on offense. And when IT's friends stop by, like Quentin Richardson, we dive into some playoff history too. Steve Nass, but get that thing, that man, hell get the flying, he running up the court, licking his fingers why he got the ball, like,

after you go through a training camp with that, Isaiah, you figure it out real quick. Get your ass up and down the court, and you're going to get the ball. So listen to Point Game on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. So you have an upcoming fantasy football draft? Well, then you need to check out the Fantasy Pro's Draft Wizard.

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and the draft assistant will be there for you to give you live pick-by-pick insights and expert recommendations of who to draft and when to draft them. You can see all of this and more at fantasy pros.com slash volume today. All right, let's move on in Milwaukee Bucks. So let's start with Gary Tren Jr. And again, all I'm going to do here is I just want to hit these three free agent signings. Again, like I'm not as keyed in on the draft as other NBA analysts.

I'm aware of that. I don't try to pretend to be able to talk a little bit about it. Generally speaking, I don't think young players make much immediate impact in the NBA. It's rare to see a guy like Jaime Hakez Jr. like steps in and is just a good rotation player right away for a good NBA team. And like we will cover draft picks if they become that sort of thing. But if I look at this Bucks rotation and I look at Damien Lillard and I look at, you know, Dilan Wright and Gary Trent Jr.

And I look at Tori and Prince and Chris Middleton and Janice Antenacompo and Bobby Portis and Brooke Lopez. And I look at that group. Like I just don't really think we're going to see a lot of the younger guys play that much. They'll play in the regular season. But the veteran group is going to be the group that ends up to, determining their outcome over the course of this season. And so I really want to zero in on these three guys.

I personally covered Tori and Prince very closely with the Lakers last year, so I'll give you guys some insight on that. And then we'll talk about Gary Trent, what he accomplished last year, what his strengths and weaknesses are. And then we'll talk about Dilan Wright, and then we'll move on to our mailbag. So I had been talking about Gary Trent, Jr., trying to rehab his value by taking a veteran minimum deal on a contender, right?

And the team that I had been primarily talking about was Denver, although I also wanted him for the Lakers potentially as well. if they could have freed up a roster spot for him. But like the Bucks are another really nice example of that. They're similar to Denver. They're a team that has a clear need at the two. Like specifically at his position, they have a need there.

They're a team that's going to at least be a top four seed and is going to probably at least play two playoff rounds as long as Yannis is healthy, right? And so like this is an opportunity for Gary Trent to slot into a tailor-made role for him and to demonstrate that he can play winning basketball alongside really good superstar level players so that he can maybe parlay that into a bigger deal as he goes into next off season, try to get out of that veteran minimum tier, right?

So this makes a lot of sense in that regard. I think he's a substantial upgrade over Malik Beasley. For as good as Malik Beasley was as a catch-and-shoot guy last year, and he was amazing. He was 1.29 points per catch-and-shoe jumper. Gary Trent was right there. He's at 1.27. So he's as good a catch-and-ch-and-ch-ch-guy as Malik was, at least within the context of last year. but Gary Trent is about an inch taller with shoes on. He's a much better ball handler,

can actually run some action in a way that Malik can struggle with, and he's a better point of attack defender. Still leaves a lot to be desired. He was not a good point of attack defender last year, but he has, Malik Beasley's bad at it too. And Malik Beasley over the course of the year, put in the work, tried to get better, at least became like respectable in some sense towards the tail end of the year, but he still really struggled. Gary Trent, a little bit, specifically one of the things that Gary Trent's better with is he's just more active with his hands. To give you an idea, Malik Beasley has never had a single season where he averaged over a

steal per game. Gary Trent Jr. has done it five times, and I want to say he's done it like four times in a row. So like Gary Trent, it's always been one of the guys that's like getting those steals at the point of attack, just attacking the basketball, applying that back pressure and reaching in from behind to try to disqual. that basketball. He's really good at attacking the pocket, and that's a valuable skill at the point of attack. Now, again, he's going to have to be better than he was in Toronto, but this is the

important theme that we're talking about here. All three of these guys are veteran minimum contracts. What that means is, I haven't actually seen the report on Gary Trinney. He might have ended up taking the taxpayer, but I think he was on a vet minimum. But the point is, is like, if you are going to take a, like if you're going to be like in the payroll predicament that the bucks are in, you don't get to go sign the $15 million guy. And if you don't get to go sign the $15 million guy, then you can't think about it within the context of a $15 million player. If Gary Trent Jr. was an elite point of attack defender, he would have signed a far more lucrative deal this summer. So you have to embrace the fact that when you're shopping in this particular price range,

you're going to get flawed players. And Gary Trent's flaw at this point in time is he's a decent on the ball guy, but he's not a good on the ball guy. He's still primarily a spot-up guy. And then on the defensive end, while he's active with his hands, he's not an elite athlete, and he's not an elite chase guys over the top of screens and disrupt the point of attack guy. That's the kind of concession that you're making, getting him at that type of discount. That said, I do think he's a much better player than Malik Beasley. And when you strictly look at the deal through that context, you upgraded a starting spot with a a vet minimum contract or something like I haven't again we talked about earlier. I'm not sure

exactly what it was, but that's a massive win for the bucks under any circumstances. Torian Prince. Torin Prince was a guy that I was very critical of last year, but it had nothing to do with Torian Prince, had everything to do with Darvin Ham. Darwin Ham, despite having better forwards on the roster, was utilizing Torian Prince as the starting three, which ended up being a huge issue. Whenever he ran with the bench groups, he did really, really well. I like Torian Prince as a bench wing, which as long as Milwaukee uses him that way, it will be fine. Now, I anticipate over the course of next season that he will start some games at the three because of Chris Middleton's health, right? As we saw Chris Middleton ended up

having double ankle surgery today or recently, so like he could end up missing some time, although at this point he's expected to be ready for the start of the season. But like, if, if Chris Middleton misses time, you're just sliding Tori and Prince into that spot. But as we know, the idealized version of the Bucks next season involves Chris Middleton at the three. And so any concerns you have with Tori and Prince as a starting caliber forward don't really matter because if he's starting for you in the playoffs, that means Chris Middleton's hurt. And if Chris Middleton's hurt, you probably don't have a championship ceiling anyway. And so within the context of what you're hoping for this year, which is a healthy season for your

stars. I like him as a backup forward. Really good catch and shoot guy last year. He's at 1.2 points per catch and shoot jumper. He, like, he's one of those guys that will always follow the game plan on defense, but just doesn't have quite the physical tools to be, like, profoundly impactful. So if his job is to chase over the top of screens or ice sideball screens, meaning like don't let him use a screen and funnel him back towards the baseline, if he has specific responsibilities off the ball where it's like he's not supposed to dig down off this guy. is supposed to dig down off that guy. Like, you can count on Torian to do his job.

But, like, if you watch him chase Jamal Murray around screens, he looks hopeless. And there were regular season games that the Lakers lost last year because Torium Prince was on Jamal Murray, and he's just not capable of making him even feel remotely uncomfortable. And so, like, preferably, he's a bench guy who's taking a bench point of attack role, guarding one of the lesser ball handlers for the other team,

and primarily operating in catch-and-shoots situations. has some five-out chops. Like he can drive close-outs pretty well. He can run dribble handoffs pretty well. Torian Prince is a good basketball player. He just needs to be like your seventh or eighth best player, which is what he's going to be with Milwaukee. So I really like the fit, especially at that price point.

Really, really nice move for Milwaukee. His weaknesses, he's not a good rebounder. And then as a three, he's thin. He's not a great athlete and he's not particularly big or strong. like that physical area of the game is where he can be a problem. One thing I'll say about Tori and Prince, though, as bad as he was rebounding during the regular season, as inconsistent as he could be at times, he ironically, after all of that drama last year, ended up being the Lakers most dependable forward in that Nugget series.

Now, that ended up being more depressing because it had mostly had to do with the fact that Rui Hachamura just had a completely nightmare series. But to Tori and Prince's credit, he elevated his game in that series. and I thought that was a good indicator of his confidence and his ability to play a bench role in a playoff rotation. Dilan Wright, basically a professional point of attack defender. He's got good length. I actually ran into him in Vegas and we stood right next to each other

and he's taller than you would think. Pretty thin, but he's got good length at that guard position. Shot the ball really well last year. The whole question with Dilan Wright is can he still move the way he used to? he's 32 years old now, but once again, this is the reality of Milwaukee's predicament. You're going to have to shop in guys that have big question marks by virtue of where you're at with your payroll. I thought Delon Wright was a smart move in that direction to try to bring in basically a more of a point of attack defense focused two-guard option to have next to Damien Lillard. And just like last year when you had Patrick Beverly and Malik Beasley as your two options, now you have Delon Wright and Gary.

Trent Jr. two kind of similar archetypes, but too much better players in my opinion. I just think those are better basketball players. Like Patrick Beverly's not even an NBA player anymore. And Malik Beasley, again, as we talked about earlier, is a very, very, very streaky jump shooter, can go very cold as some of you Bucks fans saw for stretches. And he shot really well last year, but that's not how he shot every other year of his career. So like, to me, I just think Gary Trent is more dependable and a better basketball player overall. So to put it simply, You turned Malik Beasley and Patrick Beverly into Gary Trent and Dillon Wright, and you bolstered at the forward position by giving yourself a legitimate backup forward to play behind Chris Middleton,

which is something that you didn't have last year. So I think that given the circumstance, you're grading on a curve, right? And the curve for the Bucks is their payroll situation. Grading on a curve, I thought the Bucks had an amazing offseason. That's going to be an interesting team to watch next year, especially if they can stay healthy. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying.

Yep, that's me, Clivert Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show.

This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment. And the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told,

and for people who are chasing something bigger. So if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to the Clifford Show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at Tickford. TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged.

It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard radio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What's up, fam? It's Isaiah Thomas. And I'm C.J. Toledano, and our podcast Point Game is about defying the odds. Like LeBron heading into the playoffs without Luca and Austin Reed. And finding ways to win no matter what. He's the smartest player to ever play the game. His IQ is at a level that we've never seen before. And he knows. Without Luca and Austin Reeves, I got to manipulate the game.

We get a player's perspective on the challenges of the playoffs. I think Joker's going to be exhausted this series because when they don't have Rudy in the lineup, he has to really guard guys like Nas Reid. He has to guard Julius Randall. And then he has to give us everything he gives us on the night-to-night basis on offense. And when IT's friends stop by, like Quentin Richardson,

we dive into some playoff history too. Steve Nash would get that thing. That man, hell get the flying. He running up the court, licking his fingers while he got the ball, like, after you go through a training camp with that, I say, you figure it out. real quick.

Get your ass up and down the court, and you're going to get the ball. So listen to Point Game on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. All right, before we get out of here, let's get to our mailbag. First question from a Warriors fan. The way I viewed small ball lineups has always been that it's an attempt to force as much shooting, spacing, passing, and quickness on the offensive end, mainly to target opponent's slower bigs.

But the only reasons these lineups end up small is due to these being guard skills. If you could have those same three attributes in five wing players on your team, you would rather run that as a small ball lineup than have small guards that could be exploited on the defense event. The reason small ball lineups do become small is because those skills are much more easily found in smaller guards. And most, if not all NBA teams simply don't have five wings that are the five most skilled on their team. All that is to say, why the hell is Kerr running these four guard lineups, when he could just as easily, due to the abundance of wing players with guard skills, get all the benefits of small ball lineups with only one guard out there or even zero,

and not be as vulnerable to counters that heavy guard lineups would face. Here's the thing. Guard skills go deeper than can you shoot, can you dribble, right? A big part of guard skills, particularly in the context of Golden State's offense, is read and react. What that means is it's like decision-making, when to cut, when to shoot, when to make that pass, when a driving opportunity is available. Like, decision-making is key in the five-out offense,

especially alongside Steph Curry, right? Like, there was a play in the, there was a play in the Team USA game today where Jason Tatum caught the ball in the right corner area, and he caught and like stopped for a second. And Steph cut right to the wing next to him. It was wide open, but Tatum just like isn't used to playing with Steph. And so he didn't make that quick decision and he missed the opportunity.

And as much as Embed at a better game today with Team USA, I thought Tatum had like his worst game with Team USA. His decision making was just super sloppy. He missed LeBron on the lob in transition. He missed Steph on that cut. He had some passes that he fumbled around the basket. It was just kind of still struggling to shoot. So like Tatum had a little bit of a rough night.

But again, the point is, is like within Golden State's offense, you need guys that continue to funnel the action in the direction of Steph, because that's your primary offensive engine. He's one of the best players in the world, right? And we have Steve Kerr on the record, by the way, that he doesn't think Kaminga and Wiggins can play together. Now, the data ended up being okay with them because they were athletic enough in the regular season context,

especially in the urgency of their playoff seating situation. They put up some good numbers. But I think the main concern for him there is, even though Moody, Wiggins, and Kaminga are all wings, and even though all three of them, in theory, have guard skills, I think he views them as a group that you could never play together simply because the ball would stick. Andrew Wiggins has a tendency to randomly hijack possessions

and take contested 20 footers. Jonathan Cominga is obviously still a young player that thinks more offense should be run through him. And Moses Moody, I think is probably the easiest of those three to just kind of like plug into the system. Even he has a tendency to kind of like stick sometimes and force up some more. threes, right? So, like, those three guys, even though they're wings, they are not the types of

guard skills that Steve Kerr is looking for within their five-out offense in terms of quick ball and player movement. And so that's really the main kind of crux of it, is like Steve Kerr would play a lot of lineups with like Steph Curry and Brandon Pazemsky on the floor at the same time with like, even sometimes with like Gary Payton or even like with Clay Thompson on the floor as well. he would do some of that stuff because he trusted those guys to keep the ball moving around. That's the main reason for it. But, like, I believe if Steve Kerr actually thought Moody Kaminga and Wiggins could all do that, then he would lean into them.

And then you'd see this lanky, athletic lineup out there. But I just think the offense would be really clunky without the real ball movement piece of it. How does one get into coaching without any college experience playing as an athlete? Coaching is a really, it's very clicky. And it's very much like a, it's kind of like an old boys club in some ways in the sense that like, especially at the college level, the dudes that have been doing it forever, they reward lower level coaches primarily based on like them grinding underneath them for a long time and like paying their dues, so to speak. There are college programs out there that reward young talent. I'm not going to pretend like that doesn't take place, but it is difficult. And so like, because the, the coaching environment is so clear, you really have to come in from the ground up. And so in the college level, that means try to get a job as like a graduate assistant

somewhere. Or maybe if you can look at the lower levels at like the Juko or NAI levels, you might be able to find something where you're a volunteer assistant, where you're doing all the work, but not making any or very little money, right? But even within that context, like for years, you're going to be doing stuff that sucks. You're going to be making sure guys are attending class, going to recruiting trips in, you know, Vegas to watch, you know, 25 high school basketball games in two days. You're going to, you're going to be constantly dealing with drama behind the scenes as players are dealing with

stuff because you're dealing with kids, right? At the NBA level, if you want to get your foot in the door and you don't have playing experience, you're going to have to start in the film room. And it's like, get ready to just cut a bunch of film forever, right? Or like, maybe you can parlay that into a job as a scout, which you can parlay into a lower level of assistant. But, like, no matter what, the coaching sphere is never going to reward talent early. You're going to have to grind. And then maybe just maybe you'll get an opportunity down the line. It's a very, very difficult field to crack into. And I have friends that are doing it that have had success. And like I've, I have a friend that I played with in college who's now coaching for the Phoenix Suns. That's awesome.

Like he parlayed into something big, right? I have a buddy of mine that I used to work out within the Summers, who's now a video coordinator with the Phoenix Suns. Like he's at the lower level, but he's trying to grind his way up, right? Like, I've got several buddies that have been coaching at lower level college programs, right? And there are some of them that are still bouncing around lower level colleges, and then there are some of them that are rising up. There's a buddy of mine who's consistently taking leaps, and now he's in the PAC 12, and he's doing really, really well, right?

So, like, it's just tough. It's just tough. It's a grind. You have to be willing to kind of, like, quote-unquote, shovel shit for a little while to get into an opportunity to really be involved as a coach. But like if you've got the capability, like if you're single and you can afford to go live in the middle of nowhere for a few years as you grind under somebody, then you can do that. But it is a very, very difficult field to crack into. How many live NBA games have you been to over the last few years and which NBA player is on your bucket list to see live?

So I've been to three actual NBA games. I saw Anthony Davis years ago back when I was working at Verizon. They had like a thing where they all, Verizon, like, took a bunch of managers to a game. And it was like when Anthony Davis was on the Pelicans. And then I want to say it was like Eric Gordon was on the, I think Eric Gordon was the best player on that Sun's team, if I remember correctly. But AD ended up hitting a game winner in that game. so that was kind of cool. The second game that I went to was LeBron and the Cavs in 2016. It was in Phoenix as well. And this was the game where Kyrie Irving hit the huge dagger.

This was like, I want to say shortly after Christmas, if I remember correctly, that particular year, which that was cool because they ended up going on to win the title that year. And then I saw the 2017 Cavs when I lived in Charlotte. I saw the Hornets versus the calves. And that was the best game I saw LeBron play. He had like 37 or something like that. in that game he hit a bunch of threes. But those are the only three actual NBA games I've been to. I live in Tucson, so I have to actually go somewhere to see a game. But I've been to like a bunch of really cool basketball events.

Like I went to the Team USA game on Wednesday last week against Canada. I've been to two, I went to one Elite 8 game out in Los Angeles at the at the then-Staple Center. I saw Wisconsin versus Arizona. That was the game that Sam Decker hit like the rainbow over. Ronde Hollis Jefferson that kind of ice the game. So I've been to a bunch of basketball events, but not a ton of NBA games. Been to like 20 or 30 games at McHale Center to watch the University of Arizona play. Obviously, in Tucson, that's like the main basketball event that you go to.

Which player is on your bucket list to see live? That's a good question. Seeing Steph with Team USA made me really want to go see him play with the Warriors. So I may try to get out and see him before he retires. Maybe next time he comes to Phoenix or something like that. Victor Wembe Nama, I feel like, is a must-see guy. I love to see him in person. There's a bunch, though.

Anthony Edwards is quickly becoming my favorite player, so that'd be a guy I'd love to see. All-time starting five using specific years of players, such as 2018-Lebron or 2017, KD, et cetera. I put 2022 Steph at the point. I put 1993 Michael Jordan at the two. I put 1985 Larry Bird at the three, 2018 LeBron at the 4 and 2001 Shack at the 5. I think those are like 1993 MJ is the most dominant

two guard that ever played. 2018 LeBron is the most dominant forward that ever played. 2001 Shaq is probably the most dominant center that ever played. Larry Bird in 1985 was just at an insane efficiency level. I think that'd be a really interesting fit alongside all those guys. And I am of the opinion that 2002 Steph, even though he had a little slump during the regular season between like how well he played in the regular season in 2021 and how well he played in the postseason in 2022. I still think that version of Steph was the best. Big part of it too is just the coverages he was facing. Like I'm sorry, I'm just more impressed by Steph dealing with blitzes and top locking and all this crazy shit

that he sees now than 2015 and 2016 when he was still seeing a lot of drop coverage in barbecuing guys. And so like I do think Steph was at his best when he hoisted the trophy in 2022. Do you think to Bucks is currently constructed to have any chance of winning the title next year. Their biggest move this offseason was losing Malik Beasley, also Dame, Brooke, and Middleton aren't getting any younger. This mailback question might have come in before the Gary Trent signing. I actually think they upgraded a couple of their lower-level players, and like as long as everyone's healthy and the continuity is there, you get a full camp with Doc Rivers.

I haven't ranked my teams out west or out east yet. I still think they're below Boston. But like, as we saw, if you get an upset, right? like Denver got knocked off by Minnesota. What if Boston gets knocked off by New York next year? And then what if New York ends up being a tough matchup for Milwaukee and Milwaukee ends up beating New York? They could get in, right?

So like I still think anything could happen. I absolutely, I will probably end up splitting the tiers up very similarly to last year where it's like the actual bona fide top tier contenders. And then it's like the punchers chance contenders. And like my guess is Milwaukee is going to be near the top of that particular list with those punchers chance guys, which means they absolutely can win the title. right? Like, say what you want about Dallas, they were there, right? They made it. So, um, I think it'd be silly to say they couldn't win. Obviously, I think they're further away than people

think. But, uh, but I do think the bucks are at a similar level there. With the lack of a true, bulky power forward, do you think Philly will use a double big lineup with two centers and play a zone defense or something like that at times? Or do you think they have to go get a power forward in the trade market? I think, I think they, obviously they're poised to potentially make a trade if they need to, they have some draft compensation. But I own double a second part of this mailback question is the questioner said that he thinks Embed has the skill to play the four on offense. The main piece there is footspeed.

I think if you put a center next to Embed, I think the overall footspeed of your lineup would be bad and I think you'd really struggle in transition. I do not view Embed as a four. I think he has to play the five. The second piece of it is like the reality of their predicament in the sense that like it doesn't make sense to just put a big power forward next to him unless it's a good player. And more often than not, I think they're going to end up just going down with Paul George, Kelly Ubre, and Joel Embed at the 3,4, 5 is what I anticipate they will do.

And again, like Paul George and Kelly Ubray are two pretty good athletes. So I think they can make, I think they can make up for the lack of that, like, truly imposing power forward. And Embed just by himself brings a certain imposition on that front line. Thoughts on Jaden Springer's potential to crack the Celtics rotation? You know, it's hard to say because the rotation, like especially with Samhouser and Peyton Pritchard and their development is pretty iron tight. I do think he'll still play quite a bit in the regular season. To crack the regular rotation, he'd have to be a better decision maker. Within the Celtics driving kick offense, you need guys that can dribble shoot and pass

and make decisions, and those are specific weaknesses of Jaden Springers. He's one of the most exciting, like young point of attack athletes to watch. Like when you watch him, hound a ball handler full court, chase over the top of the screens, he can be downright disruptive. He's a super exciting athlete. But within the Celtics decision making in their five out how deliberate they are with their spacing, all that kind of stuff,

it's hard for me to imagine him cracking the rotation. But he'll have his moments in the regular season just by virtue of trying to get through those 82 games. Which two guys from this year's Team USA, not counting Celtics are most likely to say that they enjoy playing with each other and team up within the next two seasons. I'm not going to treat this as most likely.

I'm going to treat this as what I want as a fan because I don't really get into the reporting side and I'm not really sure who's closest to being ready to leave versus who's not so on and so forth. As a fan, though, I would love to see Bam and AD play together. Every time those two are on the floor, it's just fun to watch how frightening they are defensively on the front line. They're both flashing a lot of higher level offensive stuff with Team USA as well. Those two guys are easily the ones I'd want to see. Can you make a video about basketball terms for casual beginner basketball fans? Sometimes you say basketball plays, which I just can't visualize and understand.

So it's hard to say that we'd make a video on it just simply because there's not a whole lot to market with that in terms of actually trying to turn it into like a real show, so to speak. But I have heard feedback from multiple levels, not just you guys, but also for my higher-ups that like they want me to like continue to break things down really in the minutia, even when I've already done so in the past. And so one of my goals for next season is to continue to,

kind of really break down simple actions, like just to try to help the casual viewers that come into our show a little bit more infrequently. One of the other things we're doing now is we're using more video. We're using more like actual footage of NBA games. And we're also using our little play clipboard that we use now where I can use some X's and O's to demonstrate some concepts to you guys. We're going to continue to incorporate that over the course of the next few years. And it is my goal for that to be a better experience for you casual NBA fans. So I do appreciate the comment. It is something we're working on. Two more. One more than one announcement. Since you've been watching the NBA, what has been your favorite slash most memorable season? 2016 by far. You had Steph's

unanimous MVP campaign, which was full of all these crazy moments peeking with that game winner against O.K.C. when he just dribbled into a 40-footer. You had Kobe's 60-point game in his final game of the regular season. You had the Warriors get to 73 wins. on the final game of the season. And then we had that epic Cavs Warriors. Well, first of all, we had the Warriors Thunder series in the conference finals. That was insane.

And then we had the epic Cavs Warriors NBA finals, which went seven games and ended on a LeBron James Block and a Kyrie Irving step back three. So it's hard to beat that because that was just an incredible NBA season. For me personally, that will always be the most memorable, at least until we see something better, right? And last thing before we get out of here, last night was the finale of the acolyte and super super interesting on a bunch of different levels.

We had a concrete drop of Darth Plagueis, who is my favorite Star Wars character ever. And the main character of my favorite Star Wars book ever, which is the book called Plagueis or Darth Plague. And I did an episode of Two Sun's podcast with my buddy Luke. That's this one over here. You guys can find that on YouTube or wherever you get your podcast. And we broke down for like 40, minutes, all the different elements from the Acolyte finale. I'm also later today going to release a breakdown of episode five of House of the Dragon. So make sure for your Star Wars fans and Game of Thrones fans, hop over to my other pod and check those out. As always, I sincerely appreciate you guys. That's all we have for today. Tomorrow, I believe, we're releasing the

Jaime Hawkesh interview, so keep an eye on the feeds for that. We're going to be running breakouts of the mailbag and stuff throughout the rest of this weekend. It will be back producing new content next week on Monday. And I think we're going to be starting our player rankings then. And that's going to get kind of confusing because I want to do two lists. I want to do a, because there's so many people that get pissed off at me for where I rank guys because they don't realize how I rank guys. I want to do two lists.

I want to do, actually, let's pitch this to you guys. And I want to see if you guys can give me some ideas. I want to do two lists permanently in the future. I want to do an in a vacuum list, which is like if we had a full-on NBA draft of all 450 NBA players, who would go number one, who would go number two, who would go number three, if you were starting a franchise from scratch for that season, right? For full 82 games and a playoff run, right? That's my in-a-vacuum list.

And then I want like a bragging rights list, which is like who had the best season overall in terms of how dominant they were, how far they went in the postseason, like who's the guy. that gets to point at all the other players and was like, I was the best guy last year. Like, who wins the bragging rights? Those are the two types of lists I want to make. And we don't have any real marketing strategy for how to do that. So if any of you guys have any ideas for what we could call those two lists, drop them in the comments because we're probably going to get started with that next week. All right, guys, that is all I have for today. As always, like I said, I sincerely appreciate you guys for rocking with me. We'll see you

tomorrow for the Jaime Hawkeyes interview. The Volume. Another podcast from some SNL late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and Friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform?

We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get. Get your podcasts. What's up, fam? It's Isaiah Thomas. And I'm C.J. Toledano.

It's our favorite time of the year on our podcast, Point Game, the playoffs. We're digging into the biggest surprises of the season. And I'm looking back on some of my greatest playoff moments. If we didn't talk ever again, I was crying. You just understood. That's how personal it got. Wow. Then after that game seven, Marquis come until he's like, you know, I love you, dog.

You know, it's all love. This was just playoffs. This was just basketball. So listen to Point Game on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. If you're watching the latest season of the Real Housewives of Atlanta, you already know there's a lot to break down. Gorsha accusing Kelly of sleeping with a merry man.

They holding Kay Michelle back from fighting Drew. Pinky has financial issues. On the podcast, Reality with the King, I, Carlos King, recap the biggest moments from your favorite reality shows, including the Real House Wise franchise, the drama, the alliances, and the T, everybody's talking about. hear this and more, listen to Reality with the King on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. This is an IHart podcast, guaranteed human.