The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Hoops Tonight - Victor Wembanyama bounces back, Why Thunder should trade for Damian Lillard

Episode Date: July 10, 2023

Jason Timpf breaks down Victor Wembanyama's bounce-back game on Sunday night, and explores the idea of the Oklahoma City Thunder trading for Damian Lillard. #volume #herdSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. Another podcast from some SNL, late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter.

Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. On The Look Back at it podcast. From 1979, that was a big moment for me. 84 was big to me.

I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick a year, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. With our friends, fellow comedians, and favorite authors. Like Mark Lamont Hill on the 80s. 84 was a wild year. It was a wild year. I don't think there's a more important year for black people.

Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me, Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, my basketball and college football journey, or my career in sports media. Well, now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifers Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard,

but celebrated. So let's get to it. Listen to the Clifford show on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok podcast network on TikTok. The Volume. All right, welcome to Hoops Tonight here at The Volume.

Happy Sunday, everybody. We are live from the Blue Wire Studios at the win here in Vegas. Victor Wenbigham has a much, much better second game. We're going to be breaking that down. I also have some thoughts on Jabari Smith Jr. and arguably the most impressive second year guy that we've seen at Summer League so far, I'm going to make the case for why a team should consider going after Dame despite the situation with the Miami Heat.

And I have a specific team in mind that I think would become a top-tier contender overnight as a result. And then last but not least, I have some thoughts on Joel Embed's comments surrounding James Hardin and his trade request. You guys know the drill before we get started. Subscribe to the volumes YouTube channels. You don't miss any more of our videos. Follow me on Twitter at underscore Jason LT, so you guys don't miss any show announcements. And if for whatever reason, you guys miss one of these shows and you can't get back over to YouTube to finish, don't forget you can find them wherever you get your podcast under hoops tonight.

And last but not least, before we get started, it may be the basketball off season, although we do have Summer League basketball, but there's no shortage of events out there to attend. From baseball games to concerts and comedy shows. And the best way to get tickets to any of these is through game time, the fastest growing ticketing app in the United States. For last minute, amazing deals on tickets to see your favorite baseball team, your favorite artist, or your favorite comedian, download the GameTime app. It's not just sports.

I'm going to see John Mayer in his last show with Dead & Company on July 16th in San Francisco. I'm super excited about that. Highly recommend it. One of the last great jam bands out there, got to get out there and see them. You can find a deal on Game Time for that as well. Download the GameTime app and redeem code hoops. for $20 off your first purchase. Terms apply.

Again, download the GameTime app. Enter code hoops. That's HOPS for $20 off. No matter where you live, get out and have some fun this week. Download the GameTime app. Last minute tickets, lowest price guaranteed. All right, let's talk some basketball. So Big Shock, the amazing prospect who already had a successful professional career in France,

wasn't a bust based on one bad summer league game that involved a whole lot of pickup stock. basketball and not a whole lot of opportunity to show what Victor was good at. And so finishes with 27 points, 12 rebounds, three blocks, probably would have had a chance to win that game if some of his teammates hadn't looked him off after he'd hit that late three point shot. It was really, really impressive on both ends of the floor, especially as that game progressed. And what I wanted to take a second to talk about today is the difference between a player's floor and a player's ceiling and why it's important early in a career to give a player an opportunity to demonstrate what he's great at while he's working on the things that he's not particularly great at. We talked about

this with Shaden Sharp yesterday, if you guys remember. Shaden Sharp has this unbelievable superpower, and it's the fact that he's one of the most athletic two guards to ever set foot on an NBA floor. And so it's important with the way that he's utilized on a basketball team that he gets to showcase that particular gift. And so everything turned around for him in that game when he started attacking the rim with his strength, size, and athleticism and elevating over the top of defenders in jump shooting situations. Big shock. He got to use his superpower and good things immediately started happening. Your floor is the weapons that you bring to the fight. Your ceiling is about your weaknesses. And if you can round out those weaknesses and fix those things, that's when you

become the best version of yourself as a basketball player. Let's take LeBron James, for example. This is the last great prospect that was at the same level of someone like Victor Wembeyanama, an all-time great NBA prospect. When he was coming into the league, he had a lot of weaknesses too. But he had these strengths. He had these unbelievable tools. He had this ridiculous physical frame for a wing. He was an incredible downhill threat, especially in transition.

No one could keep him away from the rim. And then he was a super gifted playmaker. He just naturally saw the floor better than everyone else. And so in Cleveland, when he was in the open floor, you got to see all of those things. When he was attacking the rim, you got to see all of those things. And watch him spray out to shooters and make things happen within the Cavs offense. But he wasn't a great defensive player right away, even though he had great defensive tools and the versatility to potentially guard multiple positions in the future.

He wasn't a very good shooter. And that was a limitation for him. Didn't really have a low post game. So he had to polish those things to reach his eventual ceiling. When we talked about LeBron James as a prospect in his capability of getting to the conversations with Michael Jordan, it wasn't because of what he was when he was 18. It was because of what we thought he could become through hard work and effort over the course of the following half decade. That's the same thing with Victor Wembenyama.

Victor Wembenyama is not Kevin Garnett yet. Victor Wimbenyama has catered, he's kind of shaped his game around the Kevin Durant mold. He's not Kevin Durant yet. that's going to take years of hard work and dedication and experience and learning how to score against NBA defenses. He's not there yet. So if you're expecting to see Kevin Durant in Summer League, that's a you problem, not a Victor problem, your expectations are off. Victor has ridiculous weapons that he brings to the table right now. He has the best combination of height, length, and coordination in the history of the league. We've had really tall players come out,

none of them that can move the way that Victor moves. He's already a top-tier defensive player. He's got really good hands and can catch a finish around the rim. He's got a respectable jump shot. Didn't shoot particularly well overall last year, but he shot 40% on uncontested catching shoots last year. That's a reliable, if he's standing still and has time to load up into his form, that shit's going in.

And he got a three on the left wing at the end of this game today that he knocked down. So he's already good at that. and then he's got a decent turnaround jump shot over both shoulders, particularly his right shoulder. So he's got some tools already. And so as long as his game is catered around those particular things, he's going to look great. But yeah, if you toss the ball to him on the wing like they did in the first game and ask him to mix dudes up off the dribble, ask him to be Kevin Durant, obviously he's not going to be successful in that setting.

Today he played to his strengths. He took the vast majority of his shots within 15 feet of the rim. he was attacking the offensive glass. He had four offensive rebounds. Got to the foul line a ton because guess what? And when he catches and tries to finish within 10 feet of the rim, people who try to block him aren't going to get the ball, they're going to get his arm.

And so he got to the foul line a ton. And then I thought you saw a really interesting sequence from Victor Womenyama at the end of this game that demonstrated an immediate ceiling for him and an immediate level of impact that's going to help the Spurs win games this season. They go down the floor, they set a ball,

with Victor, he gets a switch. Ball handler dribbles over to the right wing. Victor relocates to the dunker spot on the left side. The ball handler is kind of dribbling there waiting for Victor to make himself available. He hard flashes to the middle of the floor, calls for the ball with two hands, catches, hits the guy, turns over his right shoulder, knocks down a little short jump shot. That's a legitimate skill that he's going to be able to do right away in the NBA and that is going to beat switching schemes.

You can't switch Victor. You can't switch a small guard onto Victor because he's just going to flash high post. and turn and shoot a little jumper over his right shoulder, and he's going to make it all the time. That's a weapon that he can use right now. Very next possession. Ball is being dribbled up along the left wing. Someone attacks along the baseline.

Victor relocates to the left wing. Why? Because the rim protector for Portland is containing the ball at the rim, which is going to be what a lot of centers do this year. There are going to be a lot of possessions where different players for San Antonio are trying to make things happen, and the rim protector is occupied, and Victor is going to be open. He relocates to that left wing, takes his time, rises up, and knocks down to catch and shoot three.

He's great at that right now. And so in this particular game, they funneled him into the things that he was great at. He got to demonstrate those things. He was great on the glass. He protected the rim. He got three blocks. He had a huge clutch block by the right block. Beat a mismatch in the post on a pick and roll switch,

popping to the three point line and knocking down shots. catching close to the basket, getting to the foul line, or finishing closer to the rim. He showed some of the high-level stuff. You saw the crazy crossover jumper he hit in the first half. He's going to do some of that. But that's not his strength right now. That's the ceiling. We need to, when we're evaluating prospects, we need to differentiate between those two things.

Their floor is what they're great at right now. Their ceiling is about their weakness. And if you're evaluating a player based on their weaknesses at that point, you're just going to be disappointed. They're kids. They're 18, 19, 20 years old. It's going to take time for them to develop those things. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle. with grace.

Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me, Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show.

This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Cliverts Show isn't just a podcast, it's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So, if you've ever supported me, or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be.

Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tap Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking.

What the hell does George Bush got to do with Little Kim? Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam Jek. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick it here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill, waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 is big to me, not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack on day, but just so y'all know.

I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack. So I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now. Thank you for finishing that sentence. Yes. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really? Yeah.

For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm going to talk about Javier Smith Jr. for a second because I think he's been one of the most interesting and probably the most impressive prospect that I've seen in this particular tournament. And even counting the guys that I saw last week. Really fun game against the Pistons. James Wiseman hits like a little left-handed hook over the top. just starts talking all kinds of shit, and Jabari just absolutely barbecues him all over the floor. You guys saw him hit that step back three, and he turns around and he's like, he can't hold me,

you know, that kind of thing. Obviously, that's fun just as a basketball fan to see guys competing like that. It finishes with 38, 7, and 6 hits an array of pull-up jump shot, just pull-up jump shot after pull-up jump shot from all these different spots on the floor. It really blows me away because I was here to last year. And, you know, there was a lot of talk over whether or not Jabari Smith was going to be the number one overall pick. And one of the big reasons why he slipped is he was so uncomfortable putting the ball on the floor. He was so uncomfortable looking to score unless he was catching and shooting from, you know, above the break on the three point line when he was in college. He was so, he was one of the most uncomfortable lottery picks when it came to trying to score the basketball that I can

remember seeing. And for him to come back this year and to look like the most comfortable player on the floor? I don't think people realize how much hard work that takes. When it comes to your jump shot and your handle, progress is incremental. You shoot thousands of shots a week and you get a little better. So what this tells me is that Jabari's been in the gym and he's been working his ass off. And when you couple that with his physical tools, he's six foot 10. He has a seven one wing span. Look at all that muscle he put on. He was bullying Jaden Ivy to get to spots all over the floor today. But he's demonstrating that he has the work ethic to go with it. I went back to look, as you guys know, I didn't cover Houston super closely last year because we primarily focus on the top

half of the league. But he actually hit 45% an effective field goal percentage on his pull-up jump shots last year, on volume. He shot 195 of them. And he made 45% effective field goal percentage. That's what makes him a super interesting top-tier prospect. Because with Paulo, it's all about, you're worried about the defensive end. With Chet, it's like, he's a big man. How much is he going to be able to be an offensive initiator, is he going to be able to stay healthy? Jibari Smith has that elite two-way wing potential. And that particular archetype is one of the most impactful archetypes that we have in the league. So shout out to Jabari Smith Jr. I was really impressed with him. I think, I don't think people realize how hard he had to work to make that type of improvement

in just 12 months. All right, I wanted to move to this Damien-Liller's situation. I talked about this a little bit with Live yesterday. And it's become a hot topic as of late because of this idea of players signing a long-term extension, right? They sign a five-year deal worth 200-something million, and then one or two years into it, they ask for a trade. We've seen a lot of this recently, right? We've just seen it with Dame. We saw it with Kevin Durant. This is not exactly the most uncommon situation in the world. And these are big names. These are top 10, top 15 players in the league that are making these types of moves. And it is a complicated situation. As I always say, you have to put your family first. When you're making decisions, especially as a primary

breadwinner in your family like these guys are, you have to put that first. So let's say you come to free agency and you're with your team and you're, you like your team and you're committed to your team. But like five years is a long time. I guarantee you all these dudes if you really ask them when they're going through these negotiations, like, are you sure you want to be here in five years? They'll all say no. Like maybe the rare examples like Steph Curry and Golden State, right? Like there are going to be guys that are remarkably loyal to their franchise.

But hey, big shot, Golden State's one of the most competent franchises in the NBA. But you have to take the money. If you really ask these dudes, they'll say, eh, I'm committed, but one to two years from now, who knows? They're not going to sign a two-year deal. Their body's up. All it takes is one awkward. landing and now that money's gone. You've got to protect yourself. You've got to take the deal.

But there's an ugly side of it. And the ugly side of it in particular is the, I only want to go there. Now, we have a show that we're doing later tonight with Mr. Colin Coward. And I want to pick his brain on this particularly because he's just been around sports for so long. He's seen so many of these dynamics. But it is an ugly look. It's not good when you've got agents leaking that he's calling other teams and telling them he'll be unhappy if he goes there. It doesn't help at all. It doesn't help at all if you've got the agent saying he's not going to report to training camp. That's a bad look. But at the end of the day, it is just posturing. Do you guys remember the Kauai Leonard situation? All the same things were said. He's not going to show up to camp.

Doesn't want to go anywhere but L.A. You're making a mistake if you trade for this guy. but if you're a competent NBA organization and you bring him in, you have the opportunity to win him over. Kauai Leonard played some of the best, arguably the very best basketball of his career in a Toronto Raptors jersey because they put themselves out there. Now, did they lose him in free agency? Yes, but the Damien Lillard situation in particular has a lot of years left on the deal. And Kauai Leonard was very devoted while he was in Toronto.

So what I would like to see is I would like to see a team get into the sweepstakes here and allow them the opportunity to prove to Dame that they're a worthwhile destination and a team that can help him reach his ultimate basketball ceiling. So I have a specific team in mind. And that team is the Oklahoma City Thunder. This team is already one of my favorite teams in the league, somebody that I very much look forward to covering next year. I think Chey Gilles-Elexander is a top 15 player in the league.

I have said this before, but I think he's the North American player that has the best opportunity to compete with guys like Yokic and Luca Danshich and Yonis and Tentenacumpo over the course of the coming decade. I think he's incredible. Lou Dort is one of the very best defensive players in the league. Josh Giddy is a super interesting high pick and roll shot creator with this combination of size and the ability to pass the basketball. Chet Holmgren was unbelievable yesterday.

Alexei Pocoshevsky, one of the better young stretch big prospects in the league. They have talent on top of talent on top of talent. We didn't even talk about Jalen Williams, who was incredible when he played in Summer League last week and has the potential to be Jalen Brown with better playmaking. They are already that talented. But as you know, what ends up happening is you end up having to pay guys. And more often than not, what you would determine to be your window ends up being shorter than you think, because you've got to extend this guy, you got to extend that guy,

and then there's the cap ramifications, and then there's a luxury tax apron, and there's all these different things that can derail you in those situations. And so I'm a big believer in taking risks and going to. after it. Adrian Wojianowski reported yesterday that the Oklahoma City Thunder have 35 draft picks between now and seven years from now, including 15 first round draft picks. They can get into these sweepstakes without having to give up a young prospect. We did some work this morning and put together a trade. Essentially, the deal would be the Davos Burtans contract, Victor Oladipo, Rudy Gay, and David Nuwaba, and some number of first round draft picks.

for Damien Lillard. In that situation, this would be the lineup. You'd have Dame at point guard, Shea at shooting guard, Lou Dort, one of the best perimeter defenders in the league at the three. Jalen Williams, one of the best young forward prospects in the league at the four. And Chet Holmgren, one of the best young rim protector skilled centers that we've had as a prospect in years.

Off the bench, they would have Josh Giddy, Trey Mann, who was really impressive yesterday, Kenrich Williams, Alexei Pocashevsky, and Jalyn Williams. That is already overnight, one of the most talented rosters in the league. With a veteran presence in Dame, two top-tier shot creators, a dude you can throw at the other team's best player in Lou Dort, legitimate spacing, tons of shooting all over the roster, tons of depth, and you can do that without having to give up a young player. And still have, I don't know, eight or nine first-round draft picks left in the next seven years. again, like Sam Presti's done an incredible job putting together this roster,

and he's done an incredible job hoarding assets. But the ultimate goal is to win an NBA championship. And you're right there. It's time to push the chips in. So again, I don't think they're going to do it. But they're my favorite candidate for a team to get involved in the Dame Miami Heat Sweepsticks. Because a super interesting young team, one of my favorite players in the league in Shea,

that combination of young, but with that veteran presence that can push you over the top, in a league that is winnable right now, with a ton of parity, with no team that has an outrageous talent advantage. I would like to see the thunder go after him. I think that would be a ton of fun. So last but not least, Joe Limbitt asked about the James Hardin situation, says, quote, I want him to come back, obviously,

so we can accomplish what we want, which is a championship. Hopefully, his mindset can be changed. This is a really interesting situation to me, because the problem with the James Harden contract is there's no version of this story where you trade him and you get positive value back. Your team will become a worst basketball team as soon as you pull the trigger on a James Harden trade.

Now think back to what we saw on the Eastern Conference playoffs last year. How close was Philly really? Philly feels like they're on a tier below the top tier championship contenders, right? You're Joel Embed, you're in your mid-20s, you're one of the top five, six players in the world. you want to compete for championships.

And so going backwards is not an option. And so I don't blame him. And I'm really curious to see the way this plays out because if they can't convince James Hardin to come back, the Sixers are a lesser team than they were last year. Why would Joel and Bede want to stick around for something like that? It's something that I'd like to keep my eye on. Again, I know we hate the idea of these star players requesting trades

and the fan bases hate it and it feels like it's, fantasy basketball. But at the end of the day, you're Joel Embed, you have an injury history, your knees have had issues, your feet have had issues. You can't afford to waste time. And running it back with James Hardin flipped for salary filler is a waste of time for what talent Joel Embed brings to the table. So for his sake, for Joel Embed's sake,

I hope they can work it out with James Hardin and give him a legitimate chance to compete next year. All right, guys, that is all I have for right now. We will move back later tonight. with Mr. Colin Coward, and we have a bunch of interesting stuff to get into. I will see you guys then. Another podcast from some SNL, late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smigel and Friends.

Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Squylla. Myel and Friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

On The Look Back at it podcast. From 1979, that was a big moment for me. 84 was big to me. I'm Sam Jay. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick a year, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. With our friends, fellow comedians, and favorite authors. Like Mark Lamont Hill on the 80s.

84 was a wild year. It was a wild year. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Clifford Taylor the 4th.

You might have seen the skits, my basketball and college football journey, or my career in sports media. Well, now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifers Show. This is a place for raw, unfilled conversations with athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. So let's get to it. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes,

follow at Clifford and at TikTok's podcast network on TikTok. This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed human.