The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Hoops Tonight - Warriors Deep Dive: Jonathan Kuminga situation, Al Horford's impact, will Steph & Jimmy win title?

Episode Date: July 26, 2025

Jason is joined by Sam Esfandiari of the 'Light Years Podcast' to break down all things Golden State Warriors including the totality of the Jonathan Kuminga situation, what Steph Curry / Jimmy Butler / Draymond Green need to be a top-tier NBA title contender, how Al Horford and DeAnthony Melton fit in the rotation, what they could get in trades from either the Sacramento Kings or Phoenix Suns, and more. Timeline0:00 - Start3:45 - Jonathan Kuminga situation8:11 - DraftKings9:10 - When Dubs should've traded JK19:00 - Sign and trade options24:00 - Al Horford fit33:00 - Warriors in the West pecking order #Volume See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. Hey, guys, it's us. The Jonas Brothers. I'm Joe. I'm Kevin. And I'm Nick. And guess what? We created our own podcast called, Hey, Jonas.

We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to it. We're the first people to do podcasts. We get to ask other people questions because we're sick and tired of being asked questions. Well, sick and tired is a strong way to put it. But, you know, tired and sick. Tired and sick.

Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you. you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel. Help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the ice.

Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Winning on Clay is an art. The rallies are relentless. And at the French Open, only the toughest survive. I'd know. I competed there for decades. Join me, Renee Stubbs, on the Renee Stubbs tennis podcast for no nonsense breakdowns of the biggest matches, the toughest players, and the moments that define Roland Garris.

She can win. She's an outsider to win the French fame. And she likes Clay. Listen, Lina Rubakina is arguably the best player in the world right now. And I actually can win on any service. Listen to the Renee Stubbs tennis podcasts on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHeart Women's Sports. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged.

It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The Volume.

All right, welcome to Hoops Tonight here at The Volume. Happy Wednesday, everybody. Hope all of you guys are having a great week. We are so happy to have Samus Fondiari from the Warriors, who covers the Warriors, with the Light Years podcast on the show today. I was doing a mailbag earlier this morning, and we had a question that was asking about my favorite offseason moves and my least favorite off season moves. And I was going back through.

And there's one team conspicuously. It was done a whole lot of nothing. And Sam, I've been seeing a lot of chairs on my social media feed all of a sudden. I was hoping you could kind of get me up to speed with how the Warriors off season, how the fan base is doing with this off season so far. We are in the chair right now. That is what's going on in Warriorsland. I mean, on the plus side, they're not going to get nominated.

for worst move of the off season. Can't be nominated for worse move if you haven't done anything yet. No, it's been weird. And like, I've been kind of oscillating between frustration over like, what are they doing? And then the more rational side where it's like new CBA seems like there's a lot of new behaviors that we didn't see in previous years and trying to rationalize it. Like, maybe this is the new reality of how this stuff goes. Maybe it's going to be a little more like baseball, which.

which no one should really want to be like where the free agency period leads to players being unsigned until like a week before players report for spring training or in the NBA's case, you know, training camp. Maybe that's maybe that's the new reality. Maybe that's the paradigm shift we're moving towards. So I don't know. If nothing else, it's not what I expected. Well, they finally make the big move, right? They go get Jimmy. And I remember you and I, you and I discussed a lot throughout the last season, like which kind of guy they would potentially go after? Would it be a Cam Johnson?

Would it be a Zach Levine? I remember you and I even getting into a discussion over the pros and cons between Zach and Jimmy and like what their fit is like. And I would argue that Jimmy fit has been a resounding success. It is unlocked a higher level of belief and motivation from Stefan Dremond and tied so many loose ends together. But if you look around the league, they still,

before we go any further, they still feel to me like a second-tier team. in the West. You agree with that. Well, yeah, they only have nine players on the roster. So, yeah, like, by virtue of the fact that it's incomplete, I mean, if they go into the season of nine players, I don't know if they'll make it to the playoffs, to be honest with you. They might just not be healthy. But yeah, I'd agree with you.

Like, a lot of it depends on how they round out this roster. I think you can make a case that they have a championship level core. But because it's older, they don't just need two additional players. need like five or six rotation players that they trust. And they probably need a little bit of luck health-wise to get into a playoff series fully healthy, which wasn't the case last year with Minnesota. And then we'll see what happens. But yeah, to your point, like second tier at best right now, given that they only have nine players and two of them are two-way guys from last year. And there is that strong foundation. Like I do believe in Jimmy, Steph, and Dremont as a core. You're

right, they're older, which means they need more support, especially in the regular season with holding up for 82 games. But as we look around the rest of the West, and we're seeing, for lack of a better way, putting it, just everyone else is making additions, right? Like Denver, you could argue, is better. The Lakers are better. The Clippers are better. You can, Oklahoma City obviously is standing Papua, Houston got better. Everyone's getting better. And so it seems like it's more the inactivity juxtaposed with everything else than anything else at this point. Now, the main thing that I'm looking at, as I look from, obviously, from afar, it seems as though everything has just been in a holding pattern based on the Jonathan

Kaminga situation. So what's going on with the Jonathan Kaminga situation? How do you see this story ending? Well, so I think it's important that we explain why they haven't signed other players, because you've seen the reports, I've seen the reports, like apparently Al Horford is a done deal and DeNthe Melton is as close to a done deal as one could be, which leads to questions like, why haven't they just signed already, right? Until they know what Cuminga's contract number is, they do not know which exceptions they have access to

and which ones they don't. So they might have handshake agreements, but if they sign them first, it could trigger a situation where they would actually hardcap themselves and then another team could come in and offer Cumanga a number that's, legitimately too high for them to match. Gotta love the new CBA.

It turns us all into lawyers, right? So that's kind of what's going on with that situation. But to the bigger question, which is what you're asking, holding pattern, I don't know if it's bad advice. I don't know if it's him having unrealistic expectations for his market, but the reality is he sees himself as a player who could be an all star in this league and he wants to be treated and paid like one. Like the player I was think of as Jalen Green.

They were teammates on that G-League Ignite team. From Cuminga's perspective, you know he saw Jalen Green go to Houston and get three years of, you know, 35 minutes a game, figure it out. You know, he got to screw up along the way. And then at the end of it, he got 35 million a year. And that's kind of been the number that's been floated out there. Cummingo wants over 30. I'm assuming that's the player he's benchmarking himself too.

And the Warriors, by virtue of the market and really using comps of players similar to him, it seems like the market says he's worth more like 20. And so that's kind of where we're sitting here. And I don't really know what's going to force a move here. Like I don't know what's going to force something because it doesn't seem like there's going to be this secret team that comes out of nowhere and opens up cap space and throws this, you know, know, 30 million a year offer sheet at him. And it doesn't seem like there's these teams out there who are also willing to give it to him and then negotiate a trade that satisfies the Warriors' needs because the Warriors want to get back

a player who they can use in their rotation and an asset for him. Now, who knows what the actual settling price is. But like all those variables are leading to what honestly, like, it feels like it's going to go another couple weeks at minimum at this point. Yeah, I want to dig into this to me is fascinating. Before we look to the future and what this could look like in terms of retaining him or a sign in trade or anything that could happen to restricted free agency, what happened to Jonathan Kaminga is super unfortunate. And it's unfortunate for the Warriors as well. It's unfortunate on both sides in the sense that you're right. Like if you're looking at

the Jalen Green situation, even if you could argue, and I would argue that Jalen's a better player than Jonathan, even though they're both in a similar tier. I think Jalen's shown just a little bit more of an explosive upside as a score. But to your point, with a lot longer runway, with a lot more opportunity. But even if you want to argue that they're in that same kind of like situation, within that scope, I could see why Jonathan Kamingo would look at that and go like, what the hell, man? Like, I'm stuck in this situation where I'm expected to fit alongside this ecosystem that

demands these very specific things for me. Whereas with Jalen, he was allowed to go and effectively be himself for better or for worse, and that dictated this pathway that is very different than what happened with Jonathan. You combine it with the fact that we head into a specific summer in terms of available cap space around the league where it's brutal for anybody to be a restricted free agent in this particular summer. And so it's just kind of like this confluence of really unfortunate events that has led to this situation.

So if we could go back in time, is there a specific moment within the last few years where you think it made the most sense to trade Jonathan? And that had they done it at that point, it would have been better for both of the parties. Nothing says summer like long days, clutch plays, and firing off a few bets on the game, all with Draft King Sportsbook. As the season heats up, so do the bats. And Draft King Sportsbook has you covered with live betting, home run props, odds, boosts and more. Whether you're chasing dingers or jumping in midgame, there's always action

to be had. Never bet on baseball before, it's easy. Pick a guy to go yard, hammer some live odds midgame, or just ride your squad and hope for the best. No spreadsheets, just vibes and dingers. My favorite guys to watch are always Aaron Judge and Shohei O time, especially if you're betting home run props. Here's something special for first timers. New Draft King's customers bet $5 and get $150 in bonus bets instantly. the Draft King Sportsbook app and use code hoops. That's H-O-O-P-S. That's code hoops for new customers to get $150 in bonus bets instantly when you bet just

five bucks. Only on Draft Kings, the crown is yours. Gambling problem, call 1-800 gambler. In New York, call 8778-Hope-N-Y or text Hope N-Y to 467-369. In Connecticut, help is available for problem gambling. Call 888-78-9-7777-7 or visit ccpgg. Please play responsibly on behalf of Boot Hill, Casino, and Resort in Kansas. 21 plus age and eligibility varies by jurisdiction.

Void in Ontario. New customers only. Bonus bets expire 168 hours after issuance. For additional terms and responsible gaming resources, see dkng.c.com slash audio. Hey, it's us, the Jonas brothers. And guess what? We have some big news. What's the news, huge news.

We created our own podcast called, Hey Jonas. We invented it. a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to... We're the first people to do podcasts. Pretty, yeah, pretty wide range of podcasts throughout there. But this one's extra special. So how did we actually come up with a name, Hey Jonas, guys? I honestly don't remember. I think it was on a call about what we should call it.

Well, we were thinking I'm originally calling it one of the early names of our band. Before Jonas Brothers was... This is how you guys remember it going down? Yes. I have a very different memory of this. We were talking about a thing, a bit for the podcast for people could call in and say, Hey Jonas, and then I wrote down on my little notepad,

Hey Jonas, and offered it up as a potential title for the podcast. But thanks for remembering that, guys. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends.

Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Lerner, Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, S&L's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,

or wherever you get your podcasts. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashed. human potential. Either way, the podcast Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or

wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hard Way with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kear Games. And in recognition of mental health awareness month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the middle health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking. Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing. And we're still chasing it. And we don't know when we've done enough.

Because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross, because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth. Are you a good person because you're afraid? Because that's two different intentions, bro. Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person.

Join me, Kear Gaines, is we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, Learn the Hard Way. Open your free, I Heart Radio app. Search Learn the Hardway and listen now. Yeah, I mean, to me, as time goes on, the most obvious moment was January of 24 and that was when he got benched in a game against the Nuggets and

Steve Kerr benched him because he made a couple mistakes on defense that were trying to win a game. That happened to be that game that Yokic basically hit a half court heave to win. It was like the peak of like what can't he do, right? Like he was just he was in like one of those moments. But the Warriors were winning when

Cummingo was on the floor got taken off. And just that that was a year's worth of frustration of him getting you know, the short leash. whereas, you know, like, obviously, like, Steph has his games where he turns a ball over, but he doesn't get the short leash on a turnover, you know, that sort of thing. And he leaks to, he leaks to shams that he's losing faith in Steve Kerr, which is hilarious. He might be the worst player in NBA history to demand a trade publicly at that point in his

NBA career. Like, if you just think about it, it's like, who are you to be publicly blasting your championship head coach like this? You know, it's like, it's one thing if LeBron does it. It's honestly, it's like one thing if like Westbrook or like established consistent All-Stars do it. It's another thing if it's a guy who's proven nothing in the context of the league. To me, that was the moment where a more savvy front office would have realized this isn't going to work. This is not going to work.

The head coach, the star players, they have very specific expectations. And he just does not want to buy in. the way they want to, or maybe he can't. There's always the possibility that, like, he's just too raw. Like, the only way he's going to learn is giving him 3,000 minutes with no leash, and they don't have the space to do it. You know, there's always that argument, which is to give him what he needs to get to where they need him to get to, they would actually have to be okay with throwing a season away.

And they were never okay with it. And so to me, that was the moment they should have done it because he was right in the middle of what was probably the best play of his career in that January. He went on to, I can't remember the numbers, but it was something like, you know, he scored over 20, like six in a row. Yeah, it was just a consistent thing where you could see the vision of what he could become as a player, right? Where it's just like, no one can stay in front of him one-on-one. He's too quick and too strong to be guarded one-on-one in an open paint, you know? And so that was when Siakam got traded to Indiana.

And I know there's rumors that Siakum wasn't willing to resign with the Warriors. We'll see, every player says that until you put the money in front of them. You know, every player, every player said, Jimmy was unwilling to go to the Warriors until they said they would max him. He was unwilling to go and they said, how do you feel about taking a, you know, 10 million a year pay cut or something? And he's like, nah, I want to go to Phoenix. You know, it's funny how those things change, right? So to me, that was the obvious point that they should have done it. hindsight's 2020.

Also, just from a realistic standpoint, middle of his third year, it would have given the team who traded for him at least a year before they had to make a contract decision. Because now the single biggest issue they're dealing with, even if they want to trade him, trading for him and guaranteeing nine figures is a different thing than trading for him when he's on a rookie deal. And you have 18 months to figure out how much you really like him and how much he's foundational for your team. So for me, you know, it's easy to say they should have just traded him on draft night. But to me, that was kind of the one where it's like, okay, you kept him during the draft. He didn't develop as fast as you wanted.

And you didn't have the space to give him the play anyway. And now you have these public outbursts in a way that's kind of unbecoming, honestly. And honestly, the way they played it, I think only fueled him to kind of have an attitude. and a disdain for what they're doing because I could have seen him getting suspended for that. You know, you could have seen another organization to be like, you can't do that. You know, you can't publicly do that.

We're suspending you. But they put him in a starting lineup the next game. They essentially gave him what he wanted. So a lot of it was hoping that, you know, this will come together. I think hindsight shows us you can't, you know, human nature is what it is and you kind of have to be a little more pragmatic

and realistic in these things. Yeah, I put down, after the Lakers lost in 2023, which is more or less the same trade cycle, right? Like that, that off season into the next deadline because, like, during the title year, I was advocating for it at the time.

At the time, I was thinking, like, you know, this is a way you can push your chips in. You're effectively not using these guys. They're not in your playoff rotation. Why not make some sort of move with Kaminga and Wiseman at the time to try to essentially maximize your title laws? Now, to Lacobs' credit,

he held off, and you guys, got the job done. And so at the time, he looked like a genius because he's like, now it's the two timelines thing. We have a championship team and we have these guys that could potentially develop into the next era. What he missed there was just the lightning in a bottle you guys caught with Jordan and with Andrew in that particular season where both guys went down a level the following season and all of a sudden it looked like you needed more firepower. And that was when the move should have been made, to your point was at that point in time, when it was clear going into that spring of 2024, they clearly don't have the same level of juice that they had the previous season.

I think that was when Andrew was dealing with all of his drama too, if I'm not mistaken. So it was right in that window in time where there was a long enough window of time after the trade for a team to evaluate Camingo without having to pay him, whereas now it's a completely different equation when you're talking about bringing him in with all that money. And it's not even like a hindsight thing. I remember most of you, there is a segment of Warriors. fans that is extremely high on Cumminga. But most of the smart Warriors fans that I talk to and the people who cover the team

are in your camp, which is talented young player. There's no reason at all why he shouldn't be able to go somewhere and make good money and make mistakes. But it's just not the reality. This is the situation that they're in. And I do think there's a certain amount of arrogance organizationally that they thought they could fix John. And I think that's where most of it went south.

Or just like do what's never. been able to be done, you know, which is the fusing of like two timelines where players are vastly different stages of their career is the issue. It's not inserting young players into a team. All good teams have to find a way to get production out of younger legs. Pretty much every title team you could find has some young player who plays some form of a role. And even if it's just an energy role, even if it's like what like Christian Braun was for Denver where you know it's necessary sometimes you need a guy who's who's got more energy and can do things like that they were dealing with players who just radically looked at the game differently so the fit was just never there and you're right

arrogance arrogance was the the single driving force behind it it's flying too close to the sun thinking you can do it all you know it's just reality has a way of humbling everyone right Yes. So if you had to choose between retaining Kaminga on a team-friendly number, let's call it a one-year. You've mentioned this before we went on the air. Like what if he signs like a one-year $20 million deal to re-enter free agency? Would you rather have something like that or one of these sign-and-trade packages from a Phoenix or a Sacramento? I mean, based on the quoted sign-and-trade packages, those are really hard to swallow. Although I do, I am increasingly becoming a Devin Carter fan.

I will say he does check boxes of the type of player they keep trying to trade for. But he's also young. So who knows if he'll be able to do it. I think I'm still going to lean on the sign and trade and just put faith in the fact that they can get a little more than what we've heard quoted. I just think this is too far gone. I think him coming back on a short term deal and let's assume it's two years. his incentives are going to be about playing for himself as opposed to what the team needs. Like I just don't see how it gets better.

And then you throw into it like he's human. This is not. There's no way he feels good about this. He's going to say all the right things. But there's no way he's feeling good about this. To me, it's like you kind of have to just cut bait and hope that what you gets the best he can get and like hopefully you can get a first round pick out of someone i don't even know if that's possible but if you could then at least you have that to play with in an ancillary move and maybe

the player you end up getting for kuminga is not the direct one for one but it's like you get something from someone you combined it with something you have you move it in another direction and you bring a player who fits what you want to do more so i just i think it's too far gone yeah you know if they brought him back it's in the same sort of situation where you go into the this last season where Kaminga was basically a matchup specific rotation piece. Like he was essentially out of your rotation for major games in major situations last year. And so if you look at it from Jonathan's perspective, even signing like a one year deal at 20 million, let's just call it that, he's sitting there thinking the reason why I'm in this

predicament is I effectively have not shown enough to the league to dictate that I'm worth what I'm asking for. So therefore, in this upcoming season, I need to show more. And what would he have seen in this situation to believe that coming back would give him the runway he would need to show that? And so I agree with you. I think we've been since, for lack of a better way of putting it, since that January 2024 kind of inflection point, this has been destined for this sort of separation. And it just hasn't happened yet. So you mentioned Devin Carter. Is there, do you think there's is there like a dream player that you wish you could squeeze out of one of those two teams in a sign and trade i mean my dreams keep getting smaller the longer this goes on you ask me about

the kings two months ago i'm like ooh kegan murray that'd be nice now it's now it's a much smaller ask um i mean keon ellis would be nice like the warriors okay so if we take a step backwards step jimmy and draymond they're closing in every game right that's your or like when the chips are on the table and you're in the playoffs, you're planning on those three players being the best they can be in those moments. So what do you want around them? You want defensive versatility with as much shooting as you can get, right? So I know this has been kind of a trendy thing,

but like the Thunder or a great example of this. And the Warriors have tried to trade for these type of players, like Derek White probably being the best in the league, kind of a point of attack defensive guard, but they also have the ability to hit an open shot, make extra pass, basically just a guard who could defend who's got length, the kind of the Drew Holiday archetype. Keon Ellis in Sacramento is one of the better ones that most people don't know about

because he's on a team. Like he's a type of guy who you put him on a good team and everyone's talking about him the way they talk about Caruso. He's not as good, but at the same time it's like, wow, that guy makes so many winning plays. wow, he took, he really took Shea out of his offense and made everything uncomfortable for him. Oh, he stuck three open threes.

Like that sort of thing, right? Like, I think guys like that are harder to find than we give it credit for because people always like, well, you can just find a role player anyway. Well, clear you can't because there are all these teams who have like championship foundation players and they can never seem to find the right role players to go around them, right?

So that's one I'd be interested in. on Phoenix. There isn't really anything because it's like, oh, I want Devin, I want to have a booker. You know, he is objectively a winning player who will help teams,

and I think Houston's going to miss him more than they realize. I agree. But it's like, if there's one thing, a team that Draymond and Jimmy does not need, it's another guy who's doing like the same things they do, you know? So that's a good point. I guess I would in terms of the asset, but it's like, yeah, no, they need a, they need a different type player.

So yeah, if they can get anyone who I can confidently say, oh, this guy's getting 25 minutes every night, I consider it a win. And ideally, I'd like them to be under 27 because this team needs, this team needs guys with young legs. There's these guys who are going to bring the energy to those January games where Steph kind of wants to hang out off ball for 70. percent of the game because he's going to have to do a lot of work later in the season. And Jimmy just kind of wants to play a facilitator mode because of the same thing. So the more young legs that fit what they want to do, the better. Yeah, it's funny. Same thing in the mailback question this morning.

I had a question that was like, do you think teams are markedly changing the way that they're going about their business this off season because of the success of Oklahoma and Indiana? And it doesn't actually feel like there have been that many, you know, versatile perimeter athletes that have been moving around. And one of the things I talked about was like, there's just not that many of them. Everyone wants the guy that can dribble shoot, pass, and defend,

and do it with some size, and it's just extremely difficult to find in the modern NBA, and that's why if you could get a guy like Keon, he's just, the way you were talking about with the winning plays, I feel like those kinds of guys are always amplified alongside superstars, superstars that actually set teams up with advantages and things along those lines. I think that in general, that shooting piece is a big one.

I look at Moses Moody essentially. Moses was bigger than Keon, but having a player that could basically do what Moses Moody did, but not go through the extended shooting lulls that Moses dealt with last year. Like the way his shot just completely fell apart in the postseason was a big, a big shot at this particular Warriors team. I would argue, and this is the next thing I want to kind of get into, because I do want to talk a little bit about Horford, too,

because I'm like really excited about him for you guys. so I want to get into that in a minute. He was meant to play for Steve Kerr. He's like, he's like one of five players in the NBA who's never been on the Warriors who if I just look at them once, I'm like, oh, that's a Warriors player.

Yeah, let's just do this real quick, actually. Because like, I am, I think Al Horford is good. Like, again, it's rumored that the deal is done. We'll see if it ends up happening. Obviously, he's old. Obviously, there's going to be, you know, 30 games or so this season where he's out of the lineup.

And I think you guys would be smart to kind of hold him in, in reserve. like that, but I cannot imagine a more natural fit as a big look for you guys in Al Horford. Are you as stoked as I am? Yeah, that's like, oh, you're going to run a bunch of DHOs with Steph Curry and you're going to have to make decisions based off of the way players or the defense reacts off him. Like, he's tailor made for that. He's, he's, to your point, could not be a more natural fit.

The thing I like about him also is they miss that. whenever Draymond's off the floor. You know, quit and post, underrated skills of passer. You know, like that sort of thing, right? And they've gone through, they've had issues finding guys who can do it. I think one of the biggest things Al would bring to the Warriors is it's not playing Draymond and Horford together. It's having 48 minutes of one of them on the floor at all times, dictating things.

And it's actually a way to keep them both fresher. Hey, it's us, the Jonas brothers. And guess what? We have some big news. What's the news? Huge news. We created our own podcast called Hey Jonas. We invented a podcast?

Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to a... We're the first people to do podcasts. Pretty, yeah, pretty wide range of podcasts throughout there. But this one's extra special. So how do we actually come up with a name, Hey Jonas, guys? I honestly don't remember. I think it was on a call about what we should call it.

Well, we were thinking I'm originally calling it one of the early names of our band. Before Jonas Brothers. This is how you guys remember it going down? Yes. I have a very different memory of this. We were talking about a thing, a bit for the podcast, where people could call in and say, hey, Jonas. And then I wrote down on my little notepad, Hey Jonas,

and offered it up as a potential title for the podcast. But thanks for remembering that, guys. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL, late-night comedy guy, Not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and Friends.

Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, S&L's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only. legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds.

I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Jacob Kingston grew up in an isolated, polygamous sect. We were God's chosen kingdom on earth. He felt destined for greatness. So when a swaggering Armenian businessman catapults Jacob into an extraordinary world, he doesn't look back. Ferraris and Lamborghinis, private jets, meeting the president of Turkey. I'm Michelle McPhee, and this is one of the most shocking criminal conspiracies I've ever come across.

When Jacob met Levant, this went to a billion-dollar fraud. But when we were a lot of, with two kings from entirely different worlds, just how long can their empire survive? The largest tax investigation in American history. You need to tell me what you know. Is somebody coming after me? Jacob told Levan, you're ruining my life. Listen to Kingdom of Fraud on the Aihar Radio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. What if they're both playing 24 minutes a game? We know Dremont can still play at a high level. We saw in the Minnesota series, he got worn down. Why do you get worn down? He had to play five the whole time with an underman team. Like, he's one of the most energetic players I've ever seen. He is still human, you know?

Like, so even there are, there are, you know, limits to how much he can expend physically. And it goes to my overarching point, which is they don't just need to get younger. They just need to get deeper. Like one of the best ways to keep the old core. healthy is have a 10-man rotation. Make it so that, like I said, Draymond's playing 24 minutes a game. Forfer's playing 24 minutes a game.

Steph's playing 30, not 36 minutes, you know? You're going to have games you chase. You can't be in a situation where you have to chase the final 35 games of the year because you had no depth in your 25 and 25, you know, 50 games in the season, which was the case with the Warriors this year. When they got Jimmy Butler, they're actually one game below 500. 25 and 26. They had to go balls to the wall just to qualify for the playoffs.

And it should be no surprise that Draymond looked dead at the end. Steph pulled a hammy, which was an exhaustion injury from what he had to do. And, you know, Jimmy's was just an unlucky contact thing. But like all of that's a subject, all that's a factor of them playing what was essentially a seven or eight man rotation for the final two months. Yeah, I think, I think Horford is everything you guys have been looking for over the last several seasons as a big. Like you mentioned, like a big that you can continue to run essentially the same style of

read and react offense that you run when Draymond's on the floor. But that also gives you a bigger look when you want to. I'm excited specifically about like some matchup specific situations where Horford, Draymond, and Jimmy are all on the floor together to close games just because of their collective defensive IQ. There's a lot of switchability there. Al Horford still, even as an old guy, is one of the best. switching bigs that you'll have in the league just because he's so good at anticipating

and taking the right angle to meet guys at spots. And so there's a lot of like, it's a lot of like the upside that you had with Quinn and, Quinn Post, but without some of like the defensive limitations that came from him just in terms of like, Quinn was like a straight up old fashioned drop big and he just didn't have much in the way of athleticism around the rim. Al doesn't bring the athleticism, but he brings the IQ and the switchability, which gives you some, some viability there. you mentioned the depth. This is the key thing because I was talking about this with the clippers. Everyone's like, oh, the clippers are so old. It doesn't matter when you have that many guys.

Like, when you have that many dudes who can play, you can keep everybody's minutes at a point where it's manageable. And that's, like, I would argue that it's, it actually has more to do with the amount of where and tear you're putting on your players each game than the number of games they play or even sometimes the schedule. Like, a back-to-back is nothing if they're playing 20, minutes each night and it's not you know if you could if you could play owl 24 minutes in one of the games and 18 and another it's not it's not a rough back to back it's a rough back to back when you're in the tail end of the season and you got to push everybody 36 37 minutes because you're desperate for a gamer here or there in the standings and in general this is kind of how I feel about spending assets to try to improve this team in the Western conference three or four wins could

be the difference between the four seed and a play in birth a specific specific player could be the difference between you losing to Denver and you beating Denver. I mean, Cam Johnson for Denver could be the difference between them losing to Oklahoma City and beating Oklahoma City. These are pretty tight margins between these teams. And that's why I've been kind of like geared up on some sort of upgrade here. So I'm as stoked about Horford as you are. We don't need to talk about Melton too much because I think we saw him last year. He's natural fit. It's just a question of whether or not his knee can hold up. But what archetype of player is Obviously, we talked about Keon Ellis.

He's a 3-D guy. I think every team could benefit from one of those. But if there was a higher-level player that you could target at some point this season, what do you view as the specific need, the specific archetype of player that the Warriors need to go into that top tier of contenders with the teams at the top of the West?

I think it's Keon-El's. No, but beyond him. No, I think it's they need, so Melton is another player who is a great point of attack to, can hit shots, can handle, create a little bit. I still think they need one more of those. And then I actually really love a guard rotation of Steph,

Pajemski, with less responsibility in that potential role, because now you've added Melton, who will likely play less minutes off of a knee injury and another guy in that rotation spot there. The other one is the obvious one, which is a front court player. And they don't need to be a center, but I'm looking at someone 6-8 to 6-10 who can hit some open shots. The way I'm looking at it is if you get Horford,

you have Draymond, Horford, and Quentin Post, and Trace Jackson Davis. Now, Quentin Post and Trace Jackson Davis are fine for backups in the regular season. What I'd really like is one more guy I can put next to Horford and bring Draymond off the bench potentially, or someone I could play next to Draymond if they want to go a little more small and switchy. Honestly, it's what they were hoping Kuminga could be. But it just hasn't happened for whatever reason. There's blame to go around for all parties there.

So that would be the type I'd be looking at, and the player I would be looking at to help get it there is Moses Moody and whatever they get in return for Kuminga, which is why sneakily I could see the team bringing him back just so that they could trade him in January. for salary purposes, no matter how awkward the whole thing would be, no matter how much lying we're going to hear during training camp about how happy they are with each other.

In theory, he could potentially have more options to choose from in terms of teams at that point, just because of the landscape of the league ships and you head into a different match, a different type of salary matching type of situation. It's been, like, reported multiple times that, you know, three years, maybe a player opt out after the second year. So it's a short-term deal, but it's, you know, it's not a one-year deal, right? In the 20 to 25 range, I can actually see that being a very attractive trade chip at the deadline because you'd be acquiring a 22-year-old who's on a very reasonable number, who you control for a couple years where you can really figure out, is this one of my, like,

core three pieces going forward, you know, because he is so young. He is still just 22 this year. He's going to be 23 this upcoming season, sorry. I can see something like that happening. I just, I don't want to go down that path because it just, it feels like one of those things where there's a lot of risk of it blowing up and being an even bigger hindrance the other way. By the way, with that, what that said, yeah, like the obvious one is get me an athletic wing who can play next to Draymond or Horford in the four spot. Who can hit shots, who can defend. That would be the type of player I would be most interested in. Yeah, you know, I was talking about this with, I had a son's fan straight up ask him,

I had my question, like, should we get Cominga? And like, what I said was like, if you can get him at 20 to 25 a year, hell yeah. Like, I do think that Cominga has value at a number that is below 30 and where he has a runway. It's specifically the combination of what he's asking for and what the warriors need from him that makes that situation untenable. If you could be flexible in that regard, it makes some sense. And similarly to the Warriors, like, to your point, if he's not, let's say he's at two years 50 million, he's still a tradable asset at that point. If he's at two years 65 million, that's where it's like, or a longer term deal. It's like a war years 150, something like that. Then you're attaching a pick to get off of them. Yeah, exactly.

Yeah, exactly. Do you think the Warriors have enough offense? This has been something that I've been keyed in on for a little while, even after the Jimmy trade. There's this pretty clear line to where, like, when Brandon Pajamsky shoots the ball really well, when Buddy Heel plays super well, you guys are borderline unbeatable.

Do you have any, do you have a desire to upgrade in terms of offensive talent, just a realistic approach to what's available, or do you actually think the Warriors don't need that? They need more athleticism and versatility and role players. Well, being as they only have nine players under, roster they need everything but but i guess uh because we've debated this heavily on our show uh and there's been a strong push to just add 82 game players you know a bucket getter who's going to just lighten the

load on step curry in the regular season and how much it can help this team just have a little more offensive firepower even if it's flawed offensive firepower right i agree that would be useful but if it's one or the other, I'm still going to lean into trying to get those defensive first closing playoff players. Because the way I look at it is end of the day, if this team makes the playoffs, it's going to be basically Steph, carry us on offense, and we're going to defend.

And I just don't see a world in which them adding an offensive player who's a bad defender actually makes. them a better playoff team. I think it leads them to being more in the middle than anything. So I know that's kind of a cop-out answer, but it's kind of like what you saw with the Thunder as far as I'm concerned. The Thunder's offense at time, I was like, man, they got nothing other than Shea, you know, that sort of thing. But I'd rather put a team of guys who can grind and will defend to, like, they're hard to score on and you trust Steph and Jimmy will eventually figure it out on offense, then try to go the other way and add a Malik Monk type where,

man, you know, you know what it's like watching a team in January when those guys are exhausting. You're like, man, it'd be really nice to have some like Malik Monk coming off the bench with a little juice just to provide a little punch. But if it comes at the expense of like that point of attack defender or that versatile wing, I don't think it's worth it. So that's kind of where I'm out with it. It's a nice to have. I view it still as a number. two priority in terms of need to have. Yeah, I lean, I lean slightly more towards it being something that they need in order to get into that next tier.

I think part of it is my overarching basketball philosophy, like even with Buddy Heald, like I thought Buddy Heald played the best defense of his career last season, even though it was flawed, even though it wasn't perfect. There were moments where Buddy was really competing and doing some good work on that end of the floor. I, like, I also just have generally looked at the Warriors' offense as kind of a counterbalance effect where Steph and Clay did this for years to teams where it was it was the mutual impact of both of them and what they brought on opposite ends of the floor running in and out of action

that made them so difficult to guard. And I look at teams like Denver who scaled up on defense using intelligence and switching up coverages and having just kind of high IQ defenders, not necessarily the most athletic defenders and them doing as good a job against Oklahoma City as anybody else did in last year's playoff run, despite being one of the worst defenses in the league down the stretch of the season. I'm indexing slowly each progressive season more towards offense, and I'm wondering how much of that will stick for me in the coming years.

But yeah, I would love to see a guy next to Steph who could reliably get to 20 points on any given night. Now, maybe Jimmy, theory that's Jimmy in theory it's and that's the thing is like I'm hoping to get just a little bit more offensive juice at a Jimmy this year too I think that could go a long way as well so that's kind of why I'm like adding those two players who can shoot like you know the pie in the sky would like a you know Derek White the shooting guard spot and like a cam Johnson at the power forward spot like obviously neither of those are going to happen cam specifically because he just went to

Denver but like you know adding those those players who can shoot the ball I think will also juice Jimmy's offense a little bit he scored the ball incredibly well up until he had the the glued injury that happened against Houston I mean he put what 37 in the playing game had something like I think he works I think him and Steph work I think they honestly need more shooting in defensive versatility than necessarily shot creation. I think the shooting is the obvious one, regardless of whether or not it comes in the form of a high-level offensive player or a three-and-d player, they've got to have reliable shooting surrounding those guys. I think that goes without saying, for the record is why I'm excited about Horford.

Like if you imagine a scenario where, let's say you get a key on Ellis and you get an Al Horford, that would be such an interesting look to have that type of group out on the floor where legitimately, guys who are going to be flowing in and out of action and popping are going to be guys who are going to be knocking down shots, which is that, like, key difference. All right, I'm going to put you on the spot before we get out of here. Let's say the Warriors, let's just say they retain Kaminga on a one year $20 million deal, or they sign and trade him for just filler, not Keon Ellis, but just filler. And they sign Horford and they signed Anthony Melton, a handful of other veteran minimum contracts, but nothing like super needle moving. Let's say they bring

back Gary Payton, something along those lines. Where would you rank them in the West without any additional moves over the top of that? Six. Mostly because in your construct, I think they're going to put too much on Steph and Jimmy's shoulders. And there's just going to be, like, they're going to be better than the sixth seed. I think that's just where they're going to end because Jimmy will miss 20 games, Steff will miss 20 games. And there'll be one of those teams where, oh, they're, you know, if you look at this,

they're actually 20, 20 and 5 over the last 25, but the overall record is 47 wins, that type of thing. And to your point, I honestly think it's one of those things where if they turn Cumminga into the right type of energy piece and maybe get a little internal improvement plus a Melton and Horfer, they might win 53 games and be the second or third seed, you know? I actually really think the margins on that basis really do matter that much in determining where they end up finishing. And as you said earlier, and as we've seen, like, the West has been so tight the last five years. It's like literally, the difference between 45 and 50 wins is the difference between like the eight and the three seed most of these years. Home corner playing. Yeah, exactly. A lot of it's down, a lot of it's down to health and your ability to just have a deep roster all year.

Yeah, I look at that tier and you can make cases for and against all of them. Like, I mean, you could say Minnesota lost in Kiel Alexander Walker and they're a little bit older in their front court and Conley's older and Gobert's older and, you know, they're just not going to be as good. But then you could also look at me and go like, yeah, but what if Anthony Edwards like watched Shay Gilges Alexander kick his ass and spends all summer working on stuff that's short to short to mid range scoring and becomes a dramatically better player and the wolves are better, right? Lakers, what happens with so many different guys they have that are older age? Clippers, what happens with so many guys that are older age, the Warriors, do they successfully turn Cominga and a couple of their other assets into more firepower? There's all of this different, you know, up and down potential for every single one of these teams. That's why it's tough to put them in a list and it's easier just to put them in tears.

But Sam, this has been amazing. I sincerely appreciate you taking time out of your busy day to come hang out with us and talk some warriors. Why don't you tell everybody where they can find your stuff? Yeah, pretty simple. just check out the Light Years Pod wherever you listen to pods, Apple, Spotify, YouTube. Doesn't matter. It'll be published there.

We go pretty regularly. We're live after every game in the offseason two to three times a week. And whenever the Cumminga thing happens, I promise a breaking pod. Same and Andy and Tommy as well do amazing work with Light Years. Make sure you guys go over there and support them.

That's all we have for today, guys. As always, we sincerely appreciate you guys for supporting us and supporting the show. We'll be back with our mailbag on Friday. I will see you guys. Hey guys, it's us. The Jonas Brothers. I'm Joe.

I'm Kevin. And I'm Nick. And guess what? We created our own podcast called, Hey Jonas. Nice. We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to it.

We get to ask other people to do podcasts. We get to ask other people questions because we're sick and tired of being asked questions. Well, sick and tired is a strong way to put it. But, you know, tired and sick. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL late-night comedy guy, not quite.

Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and Friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the I-Heart Radio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Winning on Clay is an art. The rallies are relentless, and at the French Open, only the toughest survive. I'd know. I competed there for decades. Join me, Renee Stubbs, on the Renee Stubbs tennis podcast for no nonsense breakdowns of the biggest matches, the toughest players, and the moments that define Roland Garris. She's an outsider to win the French for me. And she likes Clay. Listen, Lina Rabakina is arguably the best player in the world right now, and I actually can win on any surface. Listen to the Renee Stubbs tennis podcast on the Iheart Radio, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHeart Women's Sports. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds.

I was having trouble stopping the muscle. great. Listen to Superhuman on the IHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed human.