The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Hoops Tonight - Why Nikola Jokic is BY FAR #1 player in NBA | Denver Nuggets

Episode Date: September 14, 2025

We've reached the conclusion of our NBA Player Rankings and Jason explains why Nikola Jokic of the Denver Nuggets has such a stranglehold on the top spot. He also breaks down why the gap between him and the other top tier superstars (Luka Doncic, Shai Gilgeous-Alexander, and Giannis Antetokounmpo) is so large. All lines provided by Hard Rock Bet.  #VolumeSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Listen to Saigon. on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The Volume. Welcome to Hoops Tonight here at The Volume. Happy Friday, everybody. Hope all you guys had a great week. We are finally bringing our player rankings list to an end today. Hitting number one, Nicole Yokic, briefly off the top.

And then we're going to get to your last batch of player rankings mailbag questions. You guys know the drill before we get started. Subscribe to the Hoops Tonight YouTube channels. You don't miss any more of our videos. me on Twitter underscore Jason LT so you guys don't miss show announcements. Don't forget a better podcast feed wherever you get your podcasts under hoops tonight. It's also super helpful if you leave a rating and a review on that front. Jackson's doing amazing work on our social media feeds on Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, and TikTok. Make sure you guys follow us there for more

content throughout the year. And last but not least, we are going to continue to do mailbags throughout the remainder of the season, usually on Fridays. So keep dropping your questions. Again, under our full episodes, go into the comments. Write mailbag with a colon. Write your question and we will get to them in our mailbags throughout the rest of the year. All right, let's talk some basketball. So as mentioned, our player rankings list finally comes to an end today. And with this one, there's no debate. No lengthy argument to make.

No need to pit him up against someone else. For the third straight year, Nicole Yokic has a stranglehold on the number one spot in the NBA. His last season in review, he played in 70 games. He's missed just 75 games in his. entire 10 season long NBA career, meaning he's averaged over 74 games played per season for a decade. Even when he missed time this year, this last, this most recent season, a good chunk of it centered around the birth of his child, not an injury. He has simply been one of the most reliable

guys in the league for a decade. His averages 29.6 points per game. That was a career high. 12.7 rebounds per game, the second highest rebound average of his career, 10.2 assists per game. That was also a career high. So yes, that represented the first time in Yokic's career and just the third player in NBA history to average a triple double for an entire season. Two point four stocks per game that also tied a career high fueled by a career high 1.8 steals per game. It's interesting because I actually thought Yokic had a pretty brutal regular season on D.E. But at the same time, I thought he was pretty damn good on defense in the playoffs, certainly better than he had been in the previous season. We'll talk more about

Yokic's defense later. Fifty-eight percent from the field, 42 percent from three. That was his best three-point shooting season of his career, right on the heels of a season where his three-point shooting was kind of an issue. He rectified it, and he became the best shooter he's ever been. 80 percent from the foul line that amounted to 63 percent in effective field goal percentage and 66% in true shooting, which was the second highest mark of his career behind that crazy 2023 season. So to put it very simply, this was the best basketball Yokic had ever played. Now, OK, see you on too many games, too many more games than Denver in order for Yokic to have a real shot at MVP. But I thought Yokic was very clearly the best basketball player on the planet

again last year. His fifth straight, top two MVP finish, his second straight, first team all NBA selection. Should be five straight there. He just got kicked off on a technicality, basically in 2023 because of Joel Embed, just a flaw in how the system works. Play type data. We're just going to quickly go through this, and then we'll get into some big picture stuff. 1.13 points per ball screen that he ran as the handler. So those inverted ball screens, that was in the 92nd percentile. 1.08 points per possession on ISOs, including passes. That was in the 83rd percentile. And then 1.16 points per possession on post-ups. which is amazing. Proposterous volume two.

Yokic generated 867 points on post-ups last year, including passes. That was 363 more than second place, which was Yonis. So just by far the best post player in the entire game of basketball. All of his off-ball metrics were insane. He converted spot-ups at 1.33 points per possession. It's literally in the 96th percentile. Out of the 178 players to log at least 150 spot-up opportunity, last year. And again, that includes a lot of guards and wings. He ranked fourth on that list

in efficiency out of spot-up situations. He converted rollman opportunities at 1.29 points per possession out of the 10 roll men to log at least 200 reps that ranked second. Jared Allen was the only guy above him. And as we all know, Jared Allen was consistently getting easier opportunities. Just a ridiculous regular season from Nicole Yokic. And he capped it all off with what I thought was an impressive playoff run. Like the Nuggets looked dead in the water going into the postseason. I even picked them against the Clippers, as many folks did, because the Clippers looked great. And the Nuggets looked terrible over the final third of the season. Aaron Gordon was banged up all year. Jamal Murray was banged up at the end of the year.

The team was kind of splintering. They had just fired their coach. And Yogh Galvanized them and got them to beat a very good Clippers team. And again, I, like, I had actually picked against Denver in that series. I thought the Clippers were going to be. going to win and Yokic just got his team back in shape in time to win a big series. And then that was a very good Oklahoma City team. That was a substantial favorite and he pushed them to the brink. And if it wasn't for, especially down the stretch of game four and in game five, if he just gets another couple of buckets from a couple of his teammates, they probably have a good, a very good chance to win that series. And so I just was really impressed by Yokic start to finish, including the

postseason last year. And then again, I don't, really quickly, I wanted to talk about defense. Like, I thought it was really impressive the way that he just kind of locked in using his IQ and active hands and stabilized the Denver defense that looked awful all season. And they did as good a job against Oklahoma City as you could possibly do. They did better against Oklahoma City than Minnesota did. They did about as good against Oklahoma City as Indiana did, even though Indiana matched up better in terms of quickness on the perimeter.

I thought that Yokic was far and away, the best player in that Oklahoma City. series in the second round. I just thought it was a really impressive campaign from the best basketball player alive. Now, the case for Yokich being the best player in the world is very simple. He may not be the highest volume score in the league statistically, although I believe he could be if he wanted to. It's just not really the way he's wired. Like, Jake O'S Alexander took 30 shots per 100 possessions last year. He was an extremely high volume shooter last year. Yokits really approached the game in that way. he put up astronomical scoring totals too. But I think he's the most reliable small sample score in the league,

meaning like if you take away just, oh, full season, points per game, total volume, and you just focus in on like, hey, we got five minutes of basketball here, and we got to win this game. And it's all going to come down to these five, you know, these final 15 possessions or so. I don't think there's a better score in the league in terms of reliability in those situations, strictly small sample brute force scoring.

His short-range touch on floaters and hooks is literally unparalleled in the sport. He was 64% on floaters last year, 61% on hooks. He made 180 of those floaters and hooks last year. That's insane volume. And like, he's making damn near two-thirds of them. It's variance-proof. Short jump shots inside of 17 feet. He shot 55%.

He's 47% on long twos outside of 17 feet, 42% on threes. And as we're going to talk about, much better if you take out the heaps. He is the most variance-proof and unstoppable single possession score in the entire sport, while also being the best passer in the entire sport.

So the result is you basically cannot stop him from getting a good shot for himself or a teammate. And that shows in a specific stat that I actually brought to the forefront last summer, but I want to go over what those numbers look like this year to demonstrate. So in synergy, they have a stat called score percentage, which simply just factors in,

if we run this play, how likely are we to put points on the board? Essentially reliability of an action. If you ran a post-up for Yokic last year, regardless of how you guarded it, if you shaded him, if you hard double-teamed him, if you left him on an island, regardless of how you guarded it,

it had a 54% chance in resulting in points. That's a pretty name, reliable play type. Throw the ball to Yokic, he's probably going to score or get someone a shot that they're going to make. If you ran an ISO for Yokic, it resulted in points 52% of the time, regardless of how you guarded him. If you ran a ball screen for him, where he's the handler and you're having a guard screen for him

or Aaron Gordon screen for him, it had a 52% chance of ending in points, regardless of how you defend it. it. Off the ball. If you left him open, he shot 49% on pick and pop threes. He shot 49% on spot-up threes. The only reason his percentages fell to the low 40s is because he missed like 30 heaves last year. Took a ton of them, like late shot clock bombs or half court shots. He was incredibly rely, if you let him get a good look from three, he hit half of them. He is quite simply the best offensive player I've ever seen. A deadly variance proof on and off ball score while simultaneously

being the best passer in basketball. He's even a monster on the margins. He had 75 offensive rebound putbacks last year. That was the seventh most in the entire NBA. He was a dominant defensive rebounder. He had averaged the second most defensive rebounds per game in the entire NBA last behind Janus. We mentioned the career high in steals, just defensive playmaking. He just impacts the game in an absolute mountain of ways.

I mentioned two weaknesses last summer that I said had kind of brought him a little bit closer to the pack. I said his three-point shooting and his defense were the two things that were hurting him. He literally shot in the high 40s on threes when you removed heaves from the equation.

He was one of the best pick-and-pot bigs in the NBA. he was one of the best spot-up players in the entire NBA, even if you include guards and wings. So you can go ahead and scratch that shooting weakness off the list. And again, while he had a brutal defensive regular season, which was a team-wide issue, I thought he was really good in the playoffs.

He still has some situational weaknesses, and they're worth mentioning here. They sound silly in the grand scheme of things, especially compared to some of the weaknesses for players further down this list. But like, if you put him up against a great pick and roll player, a guy that can really shoot and pull him out to the perimeter, but can also pass out of it. So guys like Steph Curry,

Luca Donchich, like those guys are going to give Yokich some issues on defense. Or yeah, like if they didn't blow up the Celtics and they stayed healthy and the Nuggets ran into that Celtics team in a series, they would have been able to space him out. It would have caused some problems. But Boston's not a threat anymore.

And for any problems that Luca and Steph can cause for Yokic, he's going to cause a mountain of problems for them on the other end of the floor. I would pick Denver to Bichich. beat Golden State or L.A. If they were to meet in the playoffs this year, at least at this point. I actually think Yokic is a particularly solid defensive matchup for Oklahoma City. It's a matchup that allows him to use a size and IQ, doesn't force him to cover as much ground

out in space. It's a good matchup for him. Ironically, like, if you really dig into like the basketball specifics, a team like Cleveland is a team that could potentially cause some issues for Yokic with their speed and pull-up shooting and all of the ability to space the floor that they have. But like, I actually think Yokic matches up pretty well against Oklahoma City. And no, he's not a perfect defensive player. But in a playoff context, I feel like he can do plenty well enough to counterbalance

what is the best offensive player that I've ever seen on the other end of the floor. And coming into the season, I think this is the best roster that Yokic has ever had. They've anchored in with substantially more depth, substantially more athleticism. That should further allow Yokic to be more useful on defense. They have a legit backup center to anchor those units. And again, I think they match up well with Oklahoma City. Hell, they pushed them to seven just last year. A couple shots go different in game five or in game four.

They win that series. So in addition to me picking Yokic as the best player in the world this season, I can tell you guys right now that Denver is my preseason pick to win the title. I think they're going to be the best playoff team this year. They may not get the one seed, but I think they're going to be up there. And they got the best player in the world with the best team he's ever had. And I'm going to take those odds against all of the other flaws that are presented further down the list of contenders.

Big shout out to Nicole Yokish. Three straight years at number one on this list. First player since LeBron James to have the league in a stranglehold like this. We are extremely excited to announce our new presenting sponsor, hard rock bet. Everyone knows and loves the hard rock hotels and casinos. And now you can use the top rated hard rock bet sports book to place all of your bets, all NFL season, and beyond. Hard Rock bet is the only legal sports book in the state of Florida and is also available in Arizona, Ohio, New Jersey, Indiana, Tennessee, Virginia, Illinois, and Colorado with more states

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Gambling problem, call 1-800 gambler in Arizona, Colorado, Illinois, New Jersey, Ohio, Tennessee, and Virginia. Hey, it's us, the Jonas Brothers. And guess what? We have some big news. What's the news? Huge news.

We created our own podcast called, Hey Jonas. We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to a... We're the first people to do podcasts. Pretty, yeah, pretty wide range of podcasts. We're starting a trend. But this one's extra special.

So how do we actually come up with a name, Hey Jonas, guys? I honestly don't remember. I think it was on a call about what we should call it. And... Oh, we were thinking, I'm originally... calling it one of the early names of our band before Jonas Brothers was... This is how you guys remember it going down? Yes.

I have a very different memory of this. We were talking about a thing, a bit for the podcast, where people could call in and say, hey, Jonas. And then I wrote down on my little notepad, Hey Jonas, and offered it up as a potential title for the podcast. But thanks for remembering that, guys. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and Friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform?

We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your... podcasts. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hardway with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kear Games. And in recognition of Mental Health Awareness Month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking, Tript Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of

the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing. And we're still chasing it. And we don't know when we've done enough. Because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross, because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth? Are you a good person because you're afraid? Because that's two different intentions, bro. Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person. Join me, Kear Gaines, as we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, Learn the Hardway. Open your free Our Heart Radio app. Search Learn the Hardway.

and listen now. Jacob Kingston grew up in an isolated polygamous sect. We were God's chosen kingdom on earth. He felt destined for greatness. So when a swaggering Armenian businessman catapults Jacob into an extraordinary world, he doesn't look back. Ferraris and Lamborghinis, private jets, meeting the president of Turkey. I'm Michelle McPhee, and this is one of the most shocking criminal conspiracies I've ever come

across. When Jacob met Levan this went to a billion dollar fraud. But with two kings from entirely different worlds, just how long can their empire survive? The largest tax investigation in American history. You need to tell me what you know. Is somebody coming after me? Jacob told Levan, you're ruining my life. Listen to Kingdom of Fraud on the I-Heart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. All right, let's get into our mailbag before we get out of here today. You've been very forthcoming about your process going into this ranking, which I appreciate. It really helps to know that the list has gone through multiple drafts and that you spent multiple nights sleeping on it.

That said, I was wondering what your general view on rankings is in more of a broad scope. Do you watch other people's rankings? And if so, how seriously do you take them? I tend to treat it all as a fun way to engage with the game. And it always baffles me to see people get so heated over the rankings. Thank you and love the show. Thank you so much for the kind words and for supporting this show. Honestly, like, I don't particularly care about, like, individually ranking players

in the sense that, like, I don't get too worked up about the lists and where other people have people ranked. I think it's a fun thought exercise. So, for instance, like, I like doing this once a summer just to, like, zoom out and take a look at the league. And one of the things you guys will notice is, like, the vast majority of people who do list, lists will just share their lists. And they might have like a little blurb that they put underneath their ranking. But like, as you guys know, we went into incredible detail on all of these players. Like my primary purpose of this list is to zoom out and take a look at where all these guys land in just my opinion. So you guys can get a view of where I see things and where I see the game.

That doesn't mean it has to be where you see the game. But most importantly, regardless of how you feel about the rankings with each guy, it's like kind of like a performance review, so to speak. Not that I'm these guys boss or anything, but the point is, it's my opportunity to like dig back into the numbers, dig back into the film, take a look at a basketball player and be like, where's this dude at right now? And that kind of helps me. If I do that every summer, it helps me just have a really firm grasp on the individual trajectories of each player. This guy's going up, this guy's going down, this guy's stagnating, here's why, here's the number. numbers that show that. Here are the things that I'm noticing on tape. Here's what Janus is doing

differently than he did in years past as a playmaker. Here's where LeBron is struggling compared to when he was in his prime. Like those, I learn a ton from these lists. Like the ranking is the ranking. I throw the ranking together like you mentioned in the first week, right? Like I sleep on it several times and I reorganize things. But once I settle on a ranking, it effectively turns into a month-long research project. It's a research project where I spend an enormous amount of time researching these players. And even though I've watched them all season, it allows me to really just deep dive into one particular player, look at both ends of the floor, look at what he accomplished last season, where his areas of opportunity are, where for young players, their development

trajectory needs to go. It's essentially a research project. And so yeah, yeah, like, I'm not going to, like, when the ESPN player rankings come out, I don't. don't really get all worked up about it. I do this for for you guys and for me. I do it for you guys so that you guys can see kind of where I have each of these players ranked as just kind of like a big picture snapshot of the NBA. And then I do it for me as a research project to learn about where these players are in more detail. It's just an opportunity in the summertime to take advantage of all the time that we have there. Hi, Jason, you say that Shea doesn't have best in the world potential. I got a lot of questions surrounding Shea. A lot of people who were comparing him to

Prime MJ, people who were saying that he does have potential to be the best player. And there were a lot of Thunder fans that were unhappy with that particular conversation. And I am recording this mailbag before our Shea Luca video releases, which comes out next week on Wednesday, or I should say two days ago, but I am recording this in advance. So I haven't seen those questions. And I'm sure there's going to be a ton of Thunder fans that are super pissed off that I have Luca ahead of him and that are super pissed off that I said he doesn't have best player in the world potential. So this question kind of falls into that lens and it allowed me to hit a bunch of those points. The rest of the question, I don't understand what else he needs to do. He outplayed Ant and Yokic this year in the

playoffs. He outplayed Luca last year. He carried the offense on a limited offensive team and took them to 68 wins in a championship. OKC's offensive system does not require him to have high assist numbers, unlike Denver with Yokic and L.A. with Luca. He impacts the game in different ways. He averaged 33 points on 34 minutes per game with great efficiency. I understand Yokic above him, but with SGA already arguably the best player in the world. Love the show. So I want to just start by disagreeing with a couple of specific things that you said.

You said he outplayed Ant this last season. I agree. I thought that he badly outplayed Ant in that series. But Ant is not a top tier superstar. You said he outplayed Yokic this year in the playoffs. I thoroughly disagree. I thought Yokic was the best player in that series. You said he outplayed Luka last year.

I also thoroughly disagree there. And I think this is where before I get back into the Luka-She piece, I want to look at the other comment you said. You said, Oklahoma City's offensive system does not require him to have high assist numbers, unlike Denver with Yokic and L.A. with L.A. with L. That I fundamentally disagree with. they're not putting up massive assist numbers while Shea's not because of the offensive system. They're doing it because Yokic and Lukar are just better offensive players than Shea,

who are much better at running a team offense and are much better at setting those dudes up with quality opportunities. I just think they're better. I think Shea and his kind of tendency to have games where he goes rogue and forces the issue a lot earlier, actually hurts his team and hurts his rhythm. hurts the rhythm of his teammates. To be clear, we're splitting hairs here. I think Shea's the third best player in the world. So I'm not over here trying to say Shea's a bum. But if you're asking me why I have Luca in Yokic above the above Shea, I think both of those guys are like clearly and discernibly better offensive players than Shea. Even the scoring piece like, oh, he averaged 33 points per game.

He had this like prime MJ scoring type of season. Literally just one season prior when Luca was healthy. He had a better scoring season than Shea. He had crazier totals. He had like a 73 point game this season. He averaged that season. He averaged like 34 points per game. While also being, in my opinion, the second best overall offensive engine in the game

with his ability to create advantages for his teammates. Like, I just don't think Shay's as good offensively as just his simple points per game metric would lead you to believe. And again, the shot totals are insane. You literally average 30 shot attempts per 100 possessions last year. he just was shooting a ton and scoring a ton. And by the way, I think Shea's a transcendently great score. I just don't think he's a transcendently great offensive player overall, the way that Luca is and the way that Yokic is even to a greater extent. The question is, can Shea become that

type of offensive engine? And throughout NBA history, this is the unique thing. And it's just kind of tricky. Like, you kind of have to be born with that trait. I've seen. I've seen, players become better at it and they become more consistent making the reeds, they become more consistent game managers. I think Damien Lillard is a good example of this kind of guy who like kind of maximized his individual potential as a playmaker. But to be very clear, there is still a gigantic chasm between that type of guy and the relentless advantage creating deadly defense beating passers that you run into at the top of the league, that it's like they've just been born with it. Like LeBron James in his prime, Chris Paul, you know, Trey Young, I think fits into this category,

the Nicola Yokic, Luca Donchich types. And when you're looking at a guy, like, to me, Yokic and Luca are both every bit as talented as scores as Shay. They may not lean into it as much and they may not may not shoot as many shots and they may not hit as many totals, although Luca, we've literally seen him do it. But I think if Yokic was like, oh, I have a $50 million incentive next year to average 35 points per game, I think Yokic could average 35 points per game like that. Like I think Shea is a score first player who's really fucking good at it. But I think Luca and Yokic are overall better offensive players.

So the question is, if Shea's not going to progress to become this like grease the wheels offensive engine that's an unbelievable playmaker, where else can he make that improvement? And like, I do think that Shea is a good defensive player. I think it's absurd that he got defensive player of the year votes. Like that to me is crazy talk. I think that some of the talk about him being like an elite, like top end defensive player is crazy talk. But I think he's a good defender.

He's a good playmaker. A defensive playmaker, like he can jump passing lanes, play the ball well. He's a good like help side guy at the rim. He's got good length. He can block shots. Shea doesn't have either the bandwidth because of his offensive load or honestly the athletic traits to be the transcendently great defensive player he would need to become the best player in the world. So like let's look at the guy. By the way, I have a question. I have a question later on

where someone talks about how they're skeptical that aunt can ever become that elite defensive player too. I agree. Like, and we'll get to that more in a minute. As a matter of fact, let me go to that real quick and then we'll come back to we'll come back to the Shay piece. This question, I take the bet that Ant never becomes an all defensive guy. One, his offensive role is too big to compete with the defensive specialists

around the league and two, he struggles with more than just ball screens. Personally, he's not great off ball. I agree. And I think his size limits him next to guys like Dyson Dyson, Assar Thompson, Tamari, J. Dub, etc. So for the record, I agree. Like, I would

bet on aunt not becoming the all defense guy. And I would bet on aunt not becoming the best player in the world. I am just saying he has that potential. The point you're making, the point about his offensive role is what I think. Like, that's why I think he won't get there. It's because his offensive role is too big. And I just don't think he'll ever dedicate the necessary resources. That second piece I disagree with. Like, you're right. He's pretty bad off ball right now. And he's pretty bad at navigating screens, but I think he can be great at all of those things. The thing with his size, and there's this kind of theory, and this is not new, this is a theory that's existed in the world of basketball for a while, which is like, can guys be so big

that they have a hard time navigating screens? And I do think that that's true for upright players, players that have high centers of gravity. But Ant, I think, is a guy who could blow up screens. I think if Ant really put in the work and wanted to be, he could be a guy that was unscreenable. because of how fast he is, because of how good his footwork is, and because of his strength in his shoulders, he can blow screens up as he's going through those actions and really become a guy that big guys don't even want to screen. So, like, I do think Ant has the potential

to become a transcendently great defensive player and a transcendently great score. I just think it's more likely that he becomes a transcendently great score, but probably not as great on defense as he needs to be, which means I think, I think Shea's clearly better than Aunt now, but I think the most likely scenario is Aunt and Shea are more or less neck and neck

for the rest of their careers. And I don't think either of them ever actually end up threatening that best player in the world conversation. I think Ant has that potential to be clear because of his athletic traits. I don't think either of them has the potential to be a transcendently great playmaker, but Ant has the potential on defense.

I just think it's more likely than not that he doesn't get there. Now, so the question is, what about when Luca or what about when Yokic declines? Like if Yokich declines, can Shea become that guy? And I just, I think it's more likely that it's a Luca. I think it's more likely that it's a Victor Wemnon Yama because Luca transcendently great score. He's every bit as good a score as Shea, if not a little better.

And he's a substantially better passer playmaker offensive engine. Like, I think he's going to stay above Shea for the most part in his career. To the, uh, um, the Victor Wemnon Yamma piece. Like, I think he's going to be a guy who averages 28, 30 points per capita percent true shooting while also being the defensive player of the year, perennially year in and year out. That's a guy that's a better basketball player than Shea Gilders-Alexander.

That's a guy that's a better basketball player than the most likely eventual version of Anthony Edwards. So, like, again, like, to me, I think where people got confused is like, I don't necessarily expect Ant to become better than Shea and to enter into that best player in the world conversation. It's just, I think Ant does have this like freaky athletic potential that could theoretically manifest in the most devastating two-way player at the guard position in the league, which I don't think Shea has the ability to be the most devastating two-way player at the guard position in the league.

I don't think that's something that's in his potential. I don't think he has the athletic gifts or the size and strength to necessarily be that guy. But like, again, like this is okay, guys. Like there are people like, do you understand like Kevin Durant more or less? was in that top tier but never became the best guy. Steph might have done it for one year in 2022. I think he did do it for one year in 2022. Like, if Shay ends up being a guy who's the second,

third, fourth best player in the league for seven, eight years, he's going to be remembered with the likes of Steph Curry and Kevin Duran. It's a very, very different conversation when you get into like, this dude's the best basketball player on planet earth. that's the conversation that Yokic has had in his stranglehold for three straight years. And like that requires you to be transcendently great at least two things. You go back to 2022 when it was Steph.

He is one of the great advantage creators in the NBA. Still to this day, you can put a bunch of random dudes with him and he's a 120 offensive rating. And back in 2022, he was still the guy who could be the volume elite transcendently great score. if you think it's Janus in 2021, like transcendently great defensive player, transcendently great score at that point in time. He had figured some things out, especially at the foul line. LeBron, transcendently great playmaker, transcendently great score and one of the elite defensive players in the league. That's why he's in the goat conversation.

Like you go back before that to Kobe Bryant. It's same thing. Transcendantly great defensive player in his prime, transcendently great score. Like there's a very, like when you get into that conversation, best player on the planet, it's an extremely high standard that you're looking to hit. And I get it. Like, this all gets convoluted because he hoisted the trophy. And like I had comments that were like, She just had the best scoring season since MJ. He won the scoring title. He won MVP. He won finals MVP. I'm not hating on the season. There's a remarkable accomplishment season. But Oklahoma City had the best

roster. And in a lot of ways, it was Shea's game manager. that became an issue at various points in the playoffs, which is why they got pushed to seven games by inferior basketball teams this year. The reason Oklahoma City won the title is they have the best defense of this era. Their defense is so damn good. It literally forced Nicole Yokic into the first, like, stretch of mediocre basketball from him that we've literally ever seen. That defense caused players to piss down their leg.

Jaron Jackson completely decomposed. Julius Randall completely decomposed. That was an all-time great defense that the third best player in the world ended up being enough offense for them to win. That's the way I look at it. And again, like I just am talking, we are splitting hairs among the best players in the world.

I ranked Shea above Janus this year. You know how hard it is to be above Janus on Tenacompo as a basketball player? I have a ton of respect for Shay. Like I had another comment. Someone said, like, you just don't like Shea because of the aesthetics. I don't necessarily like Luca's aesthetics.

The flopping, the grifting. He's not a vertical player. He's not a guy that has like a ton of fluidity in his jump shot. It's kind of like a set shot. Like, Luca is not a player that I love aesthetically. I think he can pound the air out of the basketball sometimes, something that I don't necessarily love watching on television. I will be forthright with you.

you guys and tell you how I feel about a player. Yeah, Shea's not my favorite player. Joel Embed wasn't my favorite player, but I can promise you that I will try like hell to rank them fairly in that context. To me, Luca is above Shea because he is every bit the score in a much better playmaker offensive engine. Same goes for Nicole Yokic. That's why I have Shea in third place. The reason why I don't think he can become the best player in the world is because we have other guys in his age group, Luca, who's transcendently great at two things, scoring and playmaking,

Wembe, who's going to be transcendently great at two things, scoring in defense, and Yokic, who still literally just had the best season of his career. So, like, I think it's more likely that Shea is a perennial, first-team all-MBA, top-tier superstar guy

that just never cracks that number one spot. And while Aunt does have that potential, I agree with you Thunder fans. I think it's more likely than not that Aunt doesn't become that. that he just eventually catches up to Shea and those two dudes kind of battle for the best two guard in the league spot looking forward in the next era of the NBA. Hey, it's us to Jonas Brothers. And guess what? We have some big news. What's the news?

Huge news. We created our own podcast called, Hey Jonas. We invented a podcast. Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to a first people to do podcasts. Pretty, yeah, pretty wide range of podcasts. We're starting a trend. But this one's extra special. So how do we, how do we actually come up the name Hey Jonas, guys. I honestly don't remember. I think it was on a call about what we should call it. Well, we were thinking I'm originally calling it one of the early names of our band. Before Jonas Brothers was...

This is how you guys remember it going down? Yes. I have a very different memory of this. We were talking about a thing, a bit for the podcast, where people could call in and say, hey, Jonas. And then I wrote down on my little notepad, Hey Jonas, and offered it up as a potential title for the podcast. But thanks for remembering that, guys. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,

or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL, late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier.

This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement. homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to my new podcast, learn the hard way with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kear Games. And in recognition of mental health awareness month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental

health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking, Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the the chase, that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing. And we're still chasing it. And we don't know when we've done enough. Because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross, because you find it important to be a good person while you

hear on earth. Are you a good person because you're afraid? Because that's two different intentions, bro. Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person. Join me, Keer Gaines, is we have real conversations about healing. growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast,

learn the hard way. Open your free iHeartRadio app. Search Learn the hard way and listen now. Jacob Kingston grew up in an isolated polygamous sect. We were God's chosen kingdom on earth. He felt destined for greatness. So when a swaggering Armenian businessman catapults Jacob into an extraordinary world, he doesn't look back.

Ferraris and Lamborghinis, private jets, meeting the president of Turkey. I'm Michelle McPhee, and this is one of the most shocking criminal conspiracies I've ever come across. When Jacob met Levin this went to a billion dollar fraud. But with two kings from entirely different worlds, just how long can their empire survive?

The largest tax investigation in American history. You need to tell me what you know. Is somebody coming after me? Jacob told Levan, you're ruining my. my life. Listen to Kingdom of Fraud on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Is there any argument that supports an optimistic Warriors season that would not also work

for the Mavericks? Both have injury-prone players leading the team's offense. Both have incredible depth and can put out 14 competent players during the season. And both have a defensive floor that is relatively high. I understand that the Warriors' offense is better, but Butler is an aging injury-prone player who does not value the regular season, but is very important. but is very necessary for their success. While the Mavericks have, excuse me,

a young core of hungry players looking to get back into contention, I don't see how someone could have the Warriors higher than the Mavs and both teams have injury history, but the Mavs are significantly younger. This is a regular season, by the way, and not the playoffs. I won't argue against Steph in the playoffs. I think, honestly, I disagree with you. I wouldn't be surprised if the Mavs ended up above Golden State

in the regular season. If Anthony Davis comes back and, like, I talk about Luka having a revenge season. I think it's very possible that Anthony Davis has a revenge season. He's had a long time to rest and to get in shape. He's probably pissed off that he got traded. I wouldn't be surprised that we have an awesome season out of Anthony Davis. They have an incredible depth of defensive talent.

It's just simply about the offensive end of the floor. That's where that could become an issue. But in the regular season, I think defense matters more. When you get to the postseason, you got to have both. But in the regular season, as we've seen with teams like Houston, you get enough stops. You can just exist in transition. score enough points to win games. And so I wouldn't be surprised if the Mavs ended up at a higher

seed at the end of the season. But the real thing is, is neither Kyrie nor Anthony Davis are like really truly great offensive players overall running a team. Like we saw what prime Kyrie looked like leading the Celtics. Like Steph Curry, even at age 37, you just put him out there with some dudes and you get a 120 offensive rating because of his ability to fly around and draw two to the ball consistently. So like to me, I would view the warriors as a more dangerous playoff team because they're probably still going to be great on defense with Draymond and Jimmy, and especially if Al Horford gets picked up, and Steph Curry is still just a way better offensive player than anybody wearing a Dallas Mavericks jersey. Two more quick ones.

Can you explain pistol action and how it works and what are the advantages and disadvantages? I love this question. We don't get a ton of this kind of stuff, but if you guys ever want to dive into these concepts. I always find these very fascinating. Um, so I'd love to get into them. All you have to do is continue to drop them in the mailback questions. Pistol is essentially a handoff that flows into a ball screen. Um, I've seen variations of this action called a bunch of different things. You'll see it called Chicago in the NBA. You'll see it called Zoom in the NBA. Pistol, right? Um, pistol generally, let's set up the floor first and go from there. Just imagine a big that's kind of hanging out around the top of the key. You've got to,

two players spacing on the weak side, so corner wing on the weak side. But let's focus on the strong side. You got a big, that's somewhere around the top of the key, and you got a guy in the corner. And that guy in the corner is the guy we're trying to get the ball to. I'm the point guard, bringing the ball up the floor. And if, uh, in a pistol action, generally speaking, I'm just going to dribble into the corner and hand off the ball to the guy coming out of the corner. And that is going to flow into the big man at the top of the key coming over to set a screen. So it's essentially a dribble handoff into a ball screen, right? That's usually called Pistol, Zumer Chicago.

It's the same principle. It just looks a little different. Usually you'll dump the ball to the big. And instead of the guard going and dribble handoffing, the big will go and dribble handoff and the guard will just set a screen first. So in either case, regardless of how you set it up, the guard is going to come off of two screens, a guard screen first and a big screen second.

And whether or not he gets the dribble handoff from the guard, or the dribble handoff from the big, it still more or less creates the same basketball dynamic. And again, I never get too hung up on the names of actions because they tend to differ from team to team. Like, even just when I was playing in college, we had the same defensive actions or defensive coverages or offensive actions that would just have different names

depending on the team that I was playing for. And I've seen similar when I've been covering the NBA over the last several years. But that word, Chicago, Zoom, Pistol, all those actions, more or less mean the same thing. The guard is coming out of the corner off of a dribble handoff, either from the big or the guard, but it's a double stagger from the guard and from the big. And from there, it just creates, it's a three-man action, right? You have three players involved in the action, and it just forces the guys to make a bunch of decisions, right?

So, like, let's say that the guy guard, because we know the target of the possession, the guy we're trying to get the ball to is in the corner. Let's say that the defense decides to lock and trail, meaning the guy guarding the man in the corner, just prepares to chase him over the. top of those screens. Well, if he chases him over the top of those screens, you've got two chances to screen him. If you hit him right, he's going to come off the other side of that screen, and he's going to have an opening to potentially shoot. If he stays attached, he's still going to be in trail position, so he should be able to curl around the big and get downhill into the paint.

Regardless of what the, regardless of what the guard does coming off of that action, the defensive Big has to make a decision. He's either got to be up to contest the shot or he's got to be back preparing to contain the ball if it comes at him. And so if it's defended, let's say that the guy chases over the top and the guy gets downhill and he attacks, in all likelihood the big is going to have to step up to help on that drive. That leaves your big, the offensive big, open to either pop out or to roll into space off of that. But there's all sorts of reads that can be made out of it. Let's say that the guards decide to switch. So they go run that first dribble handoff and those two guards decide to switch.

Well, the second guard who's taking the guy coming out of the corner is now highly susceptible to a screen because he was just guarding a ball handler going in the opposite direction. His shoulders are probably turned. His hips are probably turned. The big's going to have an easier chance to hit him. If he hits him, he can come off and shoot or force the big to step up and drop it off to the big. There's also overplays, right? So like when we,

pistol was actually our main, our main five out motion when my first year coaching, when I was coaching high school in Tucson, it was like five years ago. And the way, the way we ran it, it was like you were encouraged. If you were the ball handler and you were bringing the ball up to dribble

handoff with the guy out of the corner, if your man wasn't paying attention and the dude was locking and trailing, you could fake the hand off and just try to turn the corner and get all the way to the basket. And it's a five out concept. So the help defense might be looser. you might have an opportunity for a layup. Let's say they top lock. So the guy in the corner is overplaying, the defensive guy in the corner is overplaying the offensive guy in the corner in forcing him to backcut.

Well, there are reeds there, right? Like, especially out of Zoom or Chicago, you throw the ball to the big, you go to set it. He's top locking. He backcuts. Guys like Draymond have been killing teams with like passes and back cuts out of overplays out of that sort of thing throughout their entire careers. Right. So like, it's essentially just a three-man act. that flows into a dribble handoff with the guard out of the corner coming off of the big at the top of the key. And that screen usually gets set a little bit further towards the sideline. The big just usually starts at the top of the key. But he'll set it closer to the elbow extended.

And then there's a lot of room in the middle of the floor for that guy to attack downhill and just force the defense to react. Like, what if the big stays home, but the two helpers on the weak side step over? Well, that's a pitch out for a three or an opportunity to drive a closeout, right? Chicago, Zoom, Pistol, it's one of my favorite early offense actions because it has really good natural flow to it, especially Pistol. So like, say you're playing pickup with your buddies or in your men's league. Such an easy action to run to just get an easy advantage. Have your big, run the floor to the top of the key, have your point guard,

just run up the floor and dribble handoff to the guy in the corner and have him come off a ball screen. It is super easy. It has this very natural flow to it. And you just play basketball off of it. He gets into the paint and the guy helps and you kick it to the wing. Once you have an advantage, once you have any advantage, there's no reason to run plays anymore. There's no reason to run a set. You just play basketball.

The entire purpose of running a set is to either get a layup or to get a guy an open catch at the three point line with the defender sprinting out at him. Once you've done that, you've done the. job. He chases him too hard off the line. He's going to drive. Now it's a five on four. You can wait for the defense to react. The key there is the spacing. Right. So like once you get into the middle of the four, you can kind of imagine it. Right. So like, let's say that I come off of that dribble handoff and I get into the middle of the floor and I swing to the left wing because I didn't have an opportunity to score. It's very important that I cycle back through to that strong side corner and the guy that was in the

corner cycles up. You want to make sure you maintain your space. within the action, otherwise guys can get in each other's way. But like, essentially, you run action to get an advantage. And once you have an advantage, as long as your spacing is set up properly, you just play basketball. And so those are the two keys to running successful offense. It's action that generates advantage in spacing once you have your advantage. If you have those two things figured out, it's, it, your talent will show through as guys get those advantages and capitalize on them. Again, love that stuff. Anything like that, you guys are welcome to drop in the questions and we'll get into it. Hi Jason, love your show. More of an operating business question.

How substantial of a drop-off do you see in views when the NBA is on versus when it's off? And how much do you try to include Steph, LeBron, Yokich, Lakers, or Warriors when you're picking mailbag questions and just content in general? So we obviously do see a drop-off in the summer. That's natural. Like, it actually, our numbers are up year over year consistently, thanks to you guys. You guys have done an amazing job supporting the show. But that's in like the big picture. It's not a linear growth. Like it always kind of looks like this. And there are several peaks in valleys throughout the season, right? So let's start with the summer. There's usually a peak during free agency. And then there's a lull after free agency when things really slow down. Then there's a peak at the start of the season. Our numbers are usually really good in October. But then you get into November and December and things kind of like slow down a little bit. The NFL becomes a bigger. part of the deal. We did have a peak, another peak in December two years ago because of the in-season tournament and the Lakers are a massive brand. So we hit some really big numbers during that

time. Bucks Thunder, not as big of brands. We covered that game, but it, you know, obviously didn't hit the same quite a number. We had a little bit of a lull there. You get into trade deadline, huge peak, right? You get a peak because you have new players changing teams. And then for a few weeks after that, everyone's really curious about how the new teams look, right? But then once you get into late March, it slows down again because it's like, okay, now we're in the stretch run. A lot of the good teams are resting players. You know, there's tanking teams that are barely even playing their guys. Like, there can be a little lull there. Then you get into the postseason and it peaks again, right? But like even within this year's postseason, there's like the market thing. When we got

to the final four, we had three of the final four markets were small markets. And so our numbers took a little bit of a dip across the board when you get into those final two playoff rounds, right? So like, there's natural peaks in valleys that exist throughout the season based on the natural peaks of the season. But to me, the natural peaks are the trade, the free agency period in early July, the first month of the season in October, the trade deadline, and the NBA playoffs. Those are like the four peaks that we ride throughout the season. As far as like the strategy of including our big markets, I have like a very simple kind of ideology about this. kind of thing. I want to cover the whole league, but I want to do it within reason because this is a

business. So I'm not going to spend like an entire week covering the hornets and the pistons and a bunch of teams that are, a pistons are actually a bad example now because the pistons are good, but years ago when the pistons were bad, I'm not going to just sit there and cover a bunch of bad teams because that would be bad for the performance of the show. It would be bad for the future of everything I'm trying to build here, right? So like my general ideology is I try to in every episode have at least one of our larger fan base is represented. We have several larger fan bases. The Celtics are a big one for us.

The Mavericks Nuggets are like teams that make long playoff runs because we cover them so intensively during the playoffs. We tend to build a fan base there. Denver's one of our bigger fan bases. The Knicks are one of our bigger ones. We hit a bunch of big numbers with the Indiana Pacers last year. You have like your seven or eight like bigger market slash more engaged fan bases. And I always try to get at least one of those in a full episode.

And we're usually going to lead with it. That's the business, right? I'm going to market the full episode around that. But we're always going to have three or four segments. And in those segments behind, that's where we get into the rest of the league. And so one of the big things that I fought for earlier this year, and one of the things that Jackson's done an amazing job of is if we cover a team in any way, shape, or form with a full segment on the show, it's getting its own breakout.

clip. And we're also sorting them by teams. So if you go into our playlists, under playlist, there's a playlist for every single team in the NBA manifested there. So like if you're a Bulls fan, you know, obviously the Bulls are a lower tier team in the Eastern Conference. So we're not going to cover them as often. But I usually cover them a few times a year. And when we do, it'll drop in the Chicago Bowls folder. If you are a Nuggets fan, we're going to hit you more often. If you go to the playlist and you click on Denver Nuggets, every time I cover the Nuggets, there will be a video that is represented there. It's very important to me that the channel is organized in a way that,

yeah, we're going to have our full episodes be branded usually around one of our bigger markets or our bigger fan bases, not necessarily even a big market. Some of our smaller markets have very engaged fan bases that we lean into, right? I expect Victor Wemanniamma and the Spurs to be kind of one of those markets in the next couple of years. No one views San Antonio as a massive market, but there are a lot of Spurs fans that are ravenous for Spurs content. And so we're going to, that's going to be a fan base that we continue to build out. But for me, the cutoff is like unsurious teams. Like, we're going to hit the top 20, 23 teams in the league, the teams that are actually trying to win. But I'm not going to waste a bunch of time watching a ton of footage

in the middle of the season on one of the bottom six or seven teams in the league, except for occasionally evaluating rookies, right? Like, oh, this guy got drafted. Let's check in on Brandon Miller and see how he's doing, like that kind of thing. But our general our general layout is we're going to lead shows with bigger markets, bigger things, because that's just smart business. But we are going to cover the rest of the league diligently in subsequent segments. And I have fought for the way we build our production plan around you guys making sure that you get a full breakout clip for every single team that I cover. So the thing that got frustrating for me in the past was like I hated it when like I would

cover the Chicago Bulls for like 11 minutes or I would cover the New Orleans Pelicans for 15 minutes, but it would be tucked at the end of a show and it wouldn't get marketed at all. It wouldn't be in the thumbnail and it wouldn't be in the title and we wouldn't have a breakout clip. And I'd be like, I just put in all that work covering that team and it's not actually showing up on the channel. We got to make sure that everyone can actually see this stuff. And so we've been doing that. Jackson has like completely transformed the production flow of the show. for the better. I'm sure you guys have noticed. Ever since Jackson came in

February, he's done an amazing job of just bringing us to like a more well-rounded production approach that you guys will see. But yeah, essentially it's a business. You got to hit big markets. You got to hit big names. But I try to do it within the context of covering the league at large. And we primarily focus

on the serious teams, right? In that like top 20, top 23, 24 teams, depending on how many teams are tanking in any given season. This season, in the Eastern Conference, once you get off that top six or seven teams, there's a lot of bad teams in the Eastern Conference. And so that's going to be tricky this year. And we'll see how it goes.

But again, that's just kind of more or less a little look behind the curtain as to how we structure our production. All right, guys, it's all I have for today. I sincerely appreciate you guys for supporting us. I'm stoked that we made it through the player rankings list again this year. Thank you guys so much for your comments and for your support. We will have List Week next week. I'll see you guys.

Hey guys, it's us. The Jonas Brothers. I'm Joe. I'm Kevin. And I'm Nick. And guess what? We created our own podcast called, Hey Jonas. Nice.

We invented a podcast. Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to it. We get to ask other people to do podcasts. We get to ask other people questions because we're sick and tired of being asked questions. Well, sick and tired is a strong way to put it. But, you know, tired and sick. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL, late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smigel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes.

Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Joey Dardano, and on my new podcast, Hope From a Hypocrite, I'll be changing lives, helping people in need with thoughtful solutions. Sike, I'm a comedian.

I'm not qualified to give good advice. Join me and my comedian friends as we riff, rant, recommend some of the most legally dubious advice known to me. This is Help From a Hypocrite the worst advice from the dumbest people you know. Listen to help from Hippocrite Wednesdays on the Iheart radio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, it's Edwin Castro, also known as Castro 1021. And I'm Conky, his best friend and business manager. And we've got a new show called The 1021 Podcast. I'm taking you behind the scenes on how I became one of Twitch's most popular streamers. We also love sports. And with the World Cup right around the corner, we'll be breaking down the biggest storylines

ahead of the big tournament here in the USA. Listen to the 1021 podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed human.