The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Hoops Tonight - Why Warriors' Steph Curry & Pacers' Tyrese Haliburton are BETTER than Jalen Brunson | NBA Mailbag

Episode Date: September 1, 2025

Jason answers mailbag questions about his NBA player rankings including why he has Golden State Warriors guard Stephen Curry ranked higher than New York Knicks guard Jalen Brunson and why he would have Indiana Pacers playmaker Tyrese Haliburton ahead of Brunson if he were healthy. He also discusses Dallas Wings rookie Paige Bueckers compared to Indiana Fever sophomore Caitlin Clark, why the Miami Heat closed games with Dwyane Wade and LeBron James together despite the analytics showing the team was better with D-Wade off the floor, how he got into sports media, whether LeBron James or Michael Jordan is a better shooter, and more.  #VolumeSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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friday everybody hope all of you guys are having a great week today is mailbag day have all sorts of great questions from you guys are going to be bouncing all around the league some player ranking stuff some stuff that's outside of player rankings as well some stuff that has nothing to do with basketball we'll be getting to all of those questions today you guys know the drill before we started subscribe to the Hoops Tonight YouTube channels. You don't miss any more of our videos. Follow me on Twitter at underscore Jason LT's. You guys don't miss show announcements.

Don't forget about our podcast fee wherever you get your podcast under Hoops Tonight. It's also super helpful if you leave a rating and a review on that front. Jackson's doing great work on our social media fees on Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, and TikTok. Make sure you guys follow us over there. And then last but not least, keep dropping those mailbag questions in the YouTube comments. If you want to get a mailbag question in these shows, all you got to do is going to our full episodes in the comments. Write mailbag with a colon. that's how I can sort it out from the comments and they'll write your question there.

If you disagree with the player ranking, if you just have a question about anything around the league or anything at all, just drop it in our mailbags. All right, let's talk some basketball. Lots of Jalen Brunson questions today that we'll be getting into. What is the argument for current Steph over Jalen Brunson? Brunson has been flat out better than Steph for the past two seasons during both the regular season and the postseason. Considering the clear year-over-year regression for Steph, estimating him to be better than the player who has been better, for two years seems unfair. A small sample with Jimmy is nowhere near enough to put him over J.B.,

especially when you take a sample about that size of Brunson's best play is better than that Steph's sample. So, first of all, like, there are several specific things here that we're going to continue to run into with Jalen Brunson. Jalen Brunson dribbles the basketball and has the ball in his hands a lot more than Steph Curry does and a lot more than most NBA players, which allows Jalen Brunson to put up preposterous statistical performances over and over and over again. I'm not trying to undersell what Jalen Brunson does here.

I'm just saying on the list of guys who their impact is going to reflect more on the box score versus guys who their impact is not going to reflect on the box score as much, Brunson's closer to this end. And guys like Steph, Tyrese Halliburton, the offensive engine types, they're going to be more on the other side of the spectrum. And a couple of specific things. First of all, you want to know why they took off when Jimmy Butler entered the equation because there's no offensive talent on that roster.

Okay, I'm sorry, but like Andrew Wiggins and Brandon Pajamsky and, you know, young Jonathan Kaminga, who literally no one in the league seems to want right now, these are not the same offensive talent that Carl Anthony Towns is, that McHale Bridges is, that O.G. Ananoby is. There is a substantially better offensive set of talent that he's playing with, which is making life easier for Jalen Brunson. And as soon as you brought Jimmy Butler into the equation, the Warriors immediately took off and became a top 10 offense again,

despite like even Jimmy is a pretty limited offensive player, and that still wasn't a very good offensive roster. Steph immediately vaulted them into being a top 10 offense in that stretch. And Steph, just by having the counterbalance of a star and the belief in his team's ability to accomplish something started producing at that top-tier superstar level again. Now, if you want to know why specifically I look at, Stefan Curry as a better basketball player than Jalen Brunson.

It's simply that he is a much better offensive engine, even to this day. It doesn't reflect as often on a Golden State roster that is so devoid of offensive talent. But Steph's ability to consistently draw two to the ball, both in pick and roll and just running off of off ball action, unlock so much easy stuff for that team. Another really easy way for me to put this is, I believe if you just plucked Steph and dropped him on the New York Knicks, and had him play with McHale Bridges and Ogen, Ninobe, and Carl Anthony Towns and all of those guys, I believe the Knicks become a better basketball team. I think that Steph is a better defensive player as well.

I think that, like, guys, like, I, you think after watching what happened with Janice and the Bucks the last couple of years, with Steph and the Warriors the last couple of years, hell, with LeBron and AD and the Lakers and how they underachieved over the years, guys, you got to have a great roster. to be good in the NBA. It is harder than ever to succeed purely based on the strength of superstar talent. You have to have both. You have to have superstar talent and you have to have strong support.

And again, I would argue the New York Knicks underachieved this year outside of just simply the Celtics series. They got killed by every good team in the regular season and generally underachieved. They looked mediocre against the pistons and they got beat by the Pacers. they just so happened to beat the Boston Celtics in this couple week stretch where they struck lightning in a bottle. The Knicks underachieved. I look at that Warriors team as a team that is basically full of a bunch of mediocre role player talent and Steph Curry. And he was able to keep them afloat long enough for the Jimmy support to come.

And they were looking pretty damn good and beat A2 seed before Steph Curry's hamstring went in large part because he had to carry such a heavy load. like I to me it wasn't even a debate. I think Steph, I think Steph is a better basketball player than Jalen Brunson right now. And again, like there's going to be a lot of this kind of stuff with the box score. I have another one related to Tyrese Halliburton here in a bit. Jalen Brunson's going to put up insane box score stats because he is a elite score that dribbles

the air out of the basketball most games. That that is going to lead to some really high box score performance and we can't grade a player simply on box score performance. And I'll save the rest of it when we get to the Tyrese Haliburton piece. Hi Jackson and Jason. Chopping it up with you two on playback and watching this channel for years has made me a better basketball fan.

Thank you for all your hard work and knowledge. My question is, what can Brunson add to become a top five player? I get Hallie has the bragging rights after their series, but after games one and two, Brunson was averaging 39.5 points, eight assists on 52% from the field. Another example of those like big box score numbers that I was talking about that took place in losses. My concern with putting Halley over Brunson is I've seen Brunson go on a four-game playoff stretch, averaging 42 points in 10 assists on 50%.

I'm almost certain Halle couldn't do that if he tried. As much as Hallie does facilitate T.J. and Mathuron going off has nothing to do with Hallie. Same with Seacum dominating ISOs or Nie Smith hitting six contested threes. He was pretty bad in the finals. And even though he reached them, Brunson would not struggle that much. Back against the wall, I know what it looks like for a LeBron, Yokic Janus, SGA, Brunson, et cetera, to put on Herkulean efforts, even in losses. I just feel like Hallie, if he's required, if his teammates are simply cold for a series, he wouldn't be able to reach that same Herculian level that the other elite offensive

engines could reach because of his inconsistent scoring. How much should a high scoring floor factor into who's better? First of all, if you guys remember what I said, I said that Halliburton, if he was healthy this year, would have ranked ninth. So that's literally just one spot ahead of where Brunson would have landed. Calliburton was in this list. So I view the gap as extremely small. And as I've said, you could really argue any of these guys ahead of each other all the way up to number five. Like, I'm sure there are Knicks fans out there who literally have Brunson at five. I mean, you, when you were listing

your offensive engines, you literally listed LeBron, Yokich, Janus, SGA, and Brunson, as in you have him basically as the fifth guy, right? So like, you could argue him that high. I'm not going to make that case. But like, I do think that these things are up for debate. And I do think your position is absolutely defensible. I just view, again, at the risk of repeating myself, I just view Halliburton as a better offensive engine. And the case for it is simply that the Pacer's offense functioned at a higher level than the Knicks did in the playoffs. I disagree with the idea that the Pacers went off without Halliburton. Their offense cratered this year in the playoffs when he was off the floor. It was like 13 points per 100, 13 in change. It was like almost 14 points worse per 100 possessions when he

was off the floor versus on. It also dipped substantially in the regular season and in the playoffs each of the last two years. By the way, the same goes for Brunson. The on-off numbers for Jalen Brunson are crazy as well. But the point is, the Pacers don't just score the basketball with or without Tyreys Halliburton. He is integral to their success. Halliburton breeds a more free-flowing offense that generates more easy shots and does a better job of keeping everyone else in rhythm. Jaylen Brunson was surrounded by every bit as much offensive talent as Halliburton was. Carl Anthony Towns, Mikael Bridges, O.G. and Anobi, that's a hell of a trio to put next to Jailen Brunson. But it just never looked that easy for the Knicks.

When Halliburton was on the floor, the Pacers scored at a rate of four points per 100 possessions higher than the Knicks did with Brunson on the floor. And in the Pacer's Knicks series, the difference was twice as large. that Knicks had a 114 offensive rating with Brunson on the floor in that series. The Pacers had a 120 offensive rating with Halliburton on the floor. Brunson is a better passer than he usually gets credit for. I think that that's worth mentioning. But he does dribble the air out of the basketball,

and the offense doesn't flow as well as it does with Tyre's Halliburton. Their play styles, the way they play, with Halliburton trying to get rid of the ball as soon as he can in possessions to the first open guy, that's naturally going to end up with Jalen Brunson putting up more impressive-looking box score numbers. Even though we can acknowledge Brunson's obviously a better score, there's obviously an approach difference that's going to lead to an even bigger difference in those box scores. Yeah, in theory, Jalen Brunson's ability to score in the clutch

should make him a better option at the end of games than Tire's Halliburton. But this year, head-to-head, in that series, Halliburton was four for seven in the clutch and hit a shot that literally stole a game at Madison Square Garden and Brunson was three for nine and the Pacers won the series. And they won in 2024, too, albeit obviously with some injuries playing a role. So in short, Jalen Brunson has had his opportunities to prove that he's better than Tyrese Halliburton at running head-to-head offense or excuse me, at running NBA offense in a head-to-head matchup. and yet in each of those situations, Halliburton's offense has just performed better. And Halliburton outperformed him in the clutch this year.

And the Pacers advanced both times. It's just really hard for me to make that case. Now, back to your first question. What does Brunson need to do to get into the top five? I'm actually going to read another quote from another YouTube comment from the same video, this one from Jonathan Raymond. On point as usual, diehard Knicks fan, and I have felt over the last few years, Brunson is one step below the top five,

and that will come from unlocking cat and OG. And it's really that simple. One of the things that Tyrese Halliburton does is he brings the absolute best at of Andrew Nemhard and Aaron E. Smith and Ben Matherin and Pascal Seaccombe and Miles Turner. If Jalen Brunson can figure out to get to that next level as a playmaker and as a game manager to where he can literally bring the most out of those guys, then he can not only leap Halliburton, but yes, absolutely get up into the conversation there for that fifth spot.

But I think he's a way away from there. That's something he's going to have to figure out. This is related to the Denzel Washington question. I don't think Denzel is talking about gatekeeping sports or other fields from people who haven't been professional in said field. He's more referring to the Stephen A's and skips of the world who just give their opinions for entertainment, whether they are positive or negative without actually backing

why they feel that way and what in the field in question brought them to that conclusion. Heck, even as you mentioned before, just because you're an athlete or professional, doesn't mean your opinion should value more. Case in point, Shaq or Chuck, who never seemed to actually give an in-depth argument and just go off how they feel based off of obvious biases versus someone like yourself who has had professional playing career. I haven't played professionally. I just played in college.

And did not make the NBA, but you still do your research and take time to come up with objective and fair takes that you really can't argue. and you even acknowledge your biases and point them out to the audience to let them know that not everyone will feel the same way. Kyrie spoke about the same thing a while back about protecting basketball from those who just want to spew opinions about the game

instead of actually trying to understand why and how basketball works. So I think it gets a little more complicated because I agree with you in the sense that there are certain guys where it's like when I hear them talking about the game, I'm like, yeah, this isn't necessarily good for the game. Where I disagree is like,

I just think things are infinitely better. It used to be, if you went back long, into the past, it was mostly that sort of thing. Now we have a little bit of that sort of thing, and we just have a ton of people who love the game passionately and cover it with their hearts and soul and just do an amazing job. I think where it gets tricky is like,

I think it goes deeper than the Stephen A and Skip part of this. I think I've seen this from NBA players. I think NBA players want people who love the game to cover it, but I just think they want no criticism at all. ever. I think it's all fair in game. I think it's all, you know, like kind of fair game for them until you start being critical. And that's where I disagree because like, I think it's important for us to be able to criticize NBA players. Otherwise, our analysis carries no weight. If this just turns into a propaganda channel where we talk about how teams play and we dive into

the weeds and we do all that technical stuff that people love, the analytical side of it, but then I come on here after like Julius Randall in game four, for instance, against Oklahoma City when he like straight up no show the game and was like bad body language and just throwing up bullshit catch and shoot shots and just not playing very well. Like one game after he was like, we're at home now. Like what am I going to do? Get on here and not say that Julius Randall like was awful and didn't back up what he was talking about in the previous game. I can't do that and then come up here with the straight face. Like what gives the legitimacy to both sides, to the praise and to the criticism, is that the other exists.

Praise without criticism is just propaganda. Criticism without praise is just shit talk. And one of the things that I've tried to do, even with the players that I don't particularly like, like you guys know that I'm not a huge fan of Russell Westbrook. But like, I like to think that over the course of the entire era, including with the Lakers, when he would play well, I would come on the show and I'd be like, Russ was good tonight. Here was a sequence where Russ was awesome. When Russ did this, this,

and this, he helped his team win the game. I would talk about that. It was important to me that my criticism of Russell Westbrook didn't come devoid of any praise when he would do something good, because again, Russell Westbrook was a player who would make good plays and would make bad plays, and that was the conundrum with him. You know, that is, that is so vital to this having any integrity. If I'm going to actually come up here and talk about the game and be perfectly honest, it requires that I both praise NBA players and criticize NBA players. And I feel the same way about different types of content out there.

Again, if you're strictly in the, I'm teaching about NBA offense. So for instance, like Cranjus, when he's like breaking down different sets and counters, he's going to sit there and just break down what this is, what this means, how is this works. That's one thing, right? But even Cranches, when he covers the Lakers, he'll bring up when he's being critical of the Lakers' coaching staff for doing something that he disagrees with. It is important for you to balance criticism with praise and vice versa to add integrity to your work. And I think that specifically his work gets tough.

And that was the sentiment that I was picking up from Denzel. I think he felt as though, like, you shouldn't be allowed to criticize any of these guys if you haven't been in the seat. And while I agree that it's like a weird dynamic, it's weird. It's weird for me, sitting in my basement in Denver, Colorado,

a non-professional basketball player to criticize basketball players that play in the NBA. I get that it's a weird dynamic, but I kind of feel as though it is, absolutely necessary in order for there to be legitimate basketball analysis. And as we talked about in that mailbag or in that episode on Monday, last week on Wednesday, excuse me, you need to have a certain amount of people who cover the game that didn't play

because so many of those people love the game every bit as much. I'm not even talking about me. I'm talking about people who like never played who love the game of basketball, so much that they pour their heart and soul into it and into the study of it that are willing to to legitimately go through the work and be honest and cover the game with integrity. I see, like I talked about in that video, I've seen NBA players, legitimate NBA players and former NBA players criticize other NBA players and they're like flatly wrong, like where they'll just go on stage and they'll be like, so and so does this, this, this and he's weak as hell

because of this or whatever it is. And I'm like, that's not even true about that guy. Like, if you actually took the time to watch the game, you would know that's not true. Hell, there are some things, sometimes you'll hear some, a player say stuff. And it's like, just go to their basketball reference page and, like, actually look at their stats

and you'll see that you're wrong. Like, that sort of thing happened all the time. Because in many cases, those are players that are already millionaires, that have already become one of the very best in their profession, which was playing the game, and now they're collecting a check to talk about it, and their heart's not in it.

And because their heart's not in it, they're not putting in the same effort that some of these people out there that also love the game a ton, but didn't play professionally or didn't play at all, and now they're channeling their love and work ethic, because maybe they don't have the natural talent

that some of these NBA players have. They're channeling that energy into their study of the game, and they're producing, in my opinion, super high quality work that has integrity, that guys who cover specific teams who will talk about parts of their team that are not getting discussed nationally that deserve more attention or at the same time criticizing people on the team

when they're not doing their job and they're not pulling their end of the, they're not holding up their end of the bargain. Like to me, it's just complicated and it's a part of, it's a part of what makes the landscape work is that we have, a mix of players who love the game, who still have their heart in it, who still do incredible work, mixed with people who are not in the game, who never played, who love it as much as anybody else in the world, and who is just as entitled to cover the game the way that they do, but they cover it with integrity and they bring that mix of praise and criticism that is always

backed up by the hard work and the study that comes from behind. the people who do all the other lanes that we talked about, like analytical study, the guys who do tactical breakdowns for people, the guys you do reporting on the league. It's just a very complex ecosystem that I think is better than it's ever been. And that's why I'm defending it

and why I'm defending the people out there. I have so many buddies out there and people that I admire from afar who just do really high-quality work, who didn't play in the NBA. and I think it's ridiculous that anyone would insinuate that they're not, you know, that they shouldn't be allowed to or that they shouldn't be in the situation that they're in. The rivalries, the marching bans, the upsets, Saturdays just got way more fun.

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We just contributed to a... We're the first people to do podcasts. Pretty, yeah, pretty wide range of podcasts. trend. But this one's extra special. So how do we actually come up with a name Hey Jonas, guys? I honestly don't remember. I think it was on a call about what we should call it. Well, we were thinking I'm originally calling it one of the early names of our band.

Before Jonas Brothers was... This is how you guys remember it going down? Yes. I have a very different memory of this. We were talking about a thing, a bit for the podcast where people could call in and say, Hey, Jonas. And then I wrote down on my little note. Hey Jonas and offered it up as a potential title for the podcast.

But thanks for remembering that, guys. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman

help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise. breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines.

We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves, their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context, and ask the questions everybody wants answered. Sports slice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to Sports Slice. radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

And for more, follow Timbo Slicelife 12 in the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. The French Open is one of the toughest tests in tennis. And I know firsthand because I competed there myself. I'm Renee Stubbs. And on the Renee Stubbs tennis podcast, I'm breaking down everything happening at Roland Garris. Every match, every upset, and what it really takes to win on clay. Jen Chinchin win. I mean, she went down in three to Rabakina.

But I'm delighted. She's an outsider to win the French for me. And she likes Clay. Listen, Lernerabakina is arguably the best player in the world right now. And I actually can win on any surface. Because if she's serving, well, good luck. Consider this your court side seat to the French Open. Listen to the Renee Stubbs tennis podcast on the IHeart Radio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHeart Women's Sports. Hey, Jason. I was watching the nerdsash pot a month ago, and they did an all-time NBA draft, and I would like you to do a 12 NBA roster all-time, obviously with the first six being the best of the best, but the lower-tier all-star role players for your benched. Figure it'd be cool since we're in the off-season.

Keep up the good work, brother, man. Thank you for supporting the show. I'm not going to do this right now, but I just was going to announce, because Jackson and I were talking about it. The first thing we're doing in the week after the player rankings are finished is we're going to do list week. So we're going to do a bunch of different lists.

I wrote down like six different examples like the five best champions of the last 25 years or like the five best perimeter defenders of the last 25 years, stuff like that. We're going to do like different lists that we're going to hit over the course of that week and we'll get to have a lot of fun as we get into the tail end of the summer. We're also planning on doing some playback stuff, especially in late September. I think we're going to try to pick three really big NBA playoff games from my time being a basketball fan and we're going to rewatch them and just kind of hang out. So that'll look for something along those lines in late September, but I will announce it as we get closer.

Got a WMBA question. Not a question about the rankings, but WMBA related. Pagebackers has taken the W by storm this season for her rookie year. She doesn't have a cultural and ratings impact as much as Caitlin. My question is, how would you compare and differentiate Paige to Caitlin? Who would you pick to build a team around? Who's better in a vacuum? Who would be their MBA comparison. As a Lakers fan, we are spoiled to have you, Pete, Kranzas, and Trevor cover our team with in-depth data, schematic, cap, and narrative analysis. Love all those dudes. They're all awesome. I couldn't agree more with you

about the quality of work that they do. And thank you so much for the kind of words about our show as well. Page is absolutely crushing it. And the fun thing is that she's doing it with short range scoring, which is insanely impressive. We talked about this a lot with Jalen Brunson in his video. But if you can find a way to be like consistently reliable as a shot maker closer to the basket, that will drive scoring that is variance proof. Page is shooting 50% on jump shots inside of 17 feet. And she's doing it on massive volume,

119 attempts per synergy. There are only two players in the entire WMBA who took at least a hundred jump shots inside of 17 feet to this point, Paige and Asia Wilson. And Paige is hitting them at a 6% higher rate than Agent Wilson is. You got to remember, too, like 50% from that range for WMBA players insane. Scoring efficiency in general in the WMBA is lower than the NBA, right? Just because of the difference in athleticism. Now, whether or not Paige can achieve the cultural resonance of someone like Caitlin Clark, it's going to come down to the same concept that we've been talking about nonstop on this show

over the last couple of weeks. Can you drive offensive success for your team beyond yourself? Caitlin Clark stepped into the WMBA and the fever offense literally exploded. She drives like a Steph Curry-esque gravity from defenses that generates a ton of openings, especially at the rim. And she could take it to an even higher level

because she does so much more of her work. I shouldn't say not at a higher level, but she does it with more versatility in the sense that she does a lot of her work on the ball as well, which is kind of like Steve Nash-esque. It's like Nash mixed with Curry. It's crazy. And Caitlin's just a supremely gifted passer.

These stats are, they don't even make sense. Over the final 15 games of the season last year, the Indiana fever posted the number one offensive rating in the WMBA by a mile. They had a 110 offensive rating and second place was the Liberty at 106. So she literally stepped into the WMBA and made the best offense in the league by a mile. that's being an offensive engine. That's making life easier for everybody on the team. And that's why I gravitate towards that type of player.

And I'm not trying to come at Paige Beckers here. She's a rookie and she's kicking ass. And I actually am really stoked that we might have a rivalry between these two over the years. I think that'd be great for the league, especially two very different types of players. But it's just an example of, if people are wondering why Caitlin resonates at a higher level, that's why. Caitlin is like a transcendently great offensive player, potentially the best offensive player to ever go into the WMBA. She has to achieve that first, but that's the potential that she has.

This year, with Caitlin largely out of the lineup, the fever's offense has come right back down to Earth. And yet, when Caitlin's been on the floor this year, even banged up Caitlin, their offensive rating has been up at 109, which is right up at that level where they were at last year at the end of the season. The second piece of it actually comes down to a fallacy that I saw on a YouTube comment the other day that I want to dive a little bit further into. It was in the KD video when we were talking about the score versus offensive engine archetype. I can't remember the exact comment, but he said something along the lines of, I can't believe we've somehow convinced ourselves that scores are inferior when the greatest player of all time was a score. And I laughed because on one hand, like the goat thing is very up for debate for anything. anybody, aside from the people who, you know, literally are of a certain age group that are

older, like older and more invested emotionally in that era, outside of that group, it's pretty up in the air. Like, it's a lot of people who think it's LeBron, right? But even if we, even if we set that aside, if you go through most all-time lists, there's not a whole lot of the traditional score archetype. It's like Kobe and MJ, and then it's a lot of really versatile players and bigs outside of that that make up a lot of top 10 lists. A lot of guys like Magic Johnson, a lot of guys like Steph Curry and LeBron, Nicole Yokic, guys along those lines, right? Also, the guys who are at the top of the all-time lists aren't any one thing. Yeah, MJ is either the best score ever or the second best score ever, depending on who you ask. But he was undoubtedly

a better passer than someone like Katie was. I mean, he had a season in the NBA where he averaged eight assists per game. So yeah, MJ is the scoring archetyte, but he's so much more of a basketball player than just breaking it down simply to scoring versus offensive initiation. Similarly, guys like LeBron and Yokic and Steph, yeah, they're offensive engines, but they're also fucking awesome scores. LeBron literally is the all-time leading score in NBA history, has hit more playoff buzzer beaters than anybody in the history of the league.

He has 12 seasons averaging over 27 points per game. That's what, like when you're talking about the goat case with LeBron, it's completely unfair to not also characterize him as one of the best scorers to ever touch the basketball. We talked about Nicole Yokic and his reliable short range scoring and how indomitable he can be there. Steph Curry obviously can reach incredible heights as a score. And the same goes with Caitlin Clark. She's arguably already the best offensive engine in the WMBA, as we discussed. And yet, during that 15-game stretch, where she was leading that kick-ass Indiana offense,

she was also second in the league in scoring, averaging 23 points per game on 60% true shooting. The one person above her was Asia Wilson and Caitlin was 3% more efficient in true shooting at that point. Caitlin was a kick-ass scorer. And by the way, I'm not denigrating scoring as a talent. It's vitally important to win basketball games. I'm saying that I personally am going to gravitate towards players who can both score and generate tons of high quality offense for their entire team, even if they're not quite as good at scoring as the best pure scores in the world.

And again, lastly, because I don't want to undersell page here because she's kicking ass. this would be a really fun rivalry to take the stage in the WMBA in the coming years. To have like a Steph Curry meets Steve Nash level point guard and Caitlin Clark versus the surgical score type in Paige Beckers, that could be a ton of fun. And more awesome basketball players

is always a good thing for us. Next question. In 2012, the Miami Heat had a higher net rating with LeBron on the court without Wade than when they were both on the court. together. However, they all, they closed all of their games with LeBron and Wade on the court together. Naturally, it seems like an obvious decision to close games with all your best players on the floor, but what is the value of doing so if you're statistically worse? Love the show,

keep up the good work. Thank you so much for the kind of works. This is an interesting question on a couple different levels, because on the one hand, Wade and LeBron were a clunky offensive bit, and it was a big part of how they lost the first year and it was a big part about how, in general, over those years, they became more of like a defense to transition group because LeBron was an offensive engine who inverted spacing or who did created natural spacing for shooters meaning like inverted spacing are guys that bring rim protectors away from the basket guys that bring guys out to the perimeter so like Yokic does it because he is a center and has to be guarded by centers he's pulling centers away from the basket and then Steph by coming

off of screening action forcing centers to show would open up space around the basket they generate openings for read and react sequences at the rim. Guys like Luca and LeBron, the rim pressuring big forwards that can pass, they bring everybody in and generate all the crazy sprayouts to shooters, right? And so for a guy like LeBron, you know, he would have benefited from a star that was more of like a perimeter shooter, for example. Like LeBron and Kevin Durant, for example, would have been an unbelievable basketball fit if they would have been able to play together. Kevin Durant is a bad example because he's the most seen. fit with anybody in NBA history.

Hell, he was amazing with Steph too. But like a, just a straight-up, like, an excellent jump-shooting a player at that position would have been like a Ray Allen, for example, in his prime, would have been a better natural basketball fit with LeBron than a Dwayway.

Right. Now, they made it work because of how good they were defensively by staggering. And over the years, LeBron built enough chemistry with D-Wade as a cutter where they were able to make make things work. And they were so good defense to transition, it all functioned. But there was definitely a little bit of a kind of like diminishing return there in terms of

having two playmaking downhill scores kind of playing alongside each other. Now, in terms of like the decision to close games like that, you weren't going to bench Dwayne way. It would come with so many ripple effects in terms of the chemistry and confidence of the team. And ultimately, I think they were just invested in constantly trying to figure it out, because the best version of that team was always going to be Wade and LeBron and the floor together. They just needed to figure it out. And they did. I thought they, you know, under the circumstances with Wade immediately getting hurt and immediately having his knee really bog him down and with the clunky spacing in the first year in 2011, they got two championships. And I think that

that sounds about right for that particular group of talent. I think the only way they would have won more is if D. Wade would have stayed healthy the whole way through. Hey Jason, love your content. It's looking like eight of the top 10 players on your list will be in the Western Conference. Clearly, the West is much deeper than the East. What would you do to help balance the conferences? There's really nothing you can do. And there's also a bad luck element to this too, because if Tyrese Halliburton's healthy and

Jason Tatum is healthy, those are two guys that I have in the top 10. Tatum's in the top five for me if he's healthy. So like there's that piece of it, Damien Lillard being hurt, nukes any chance for the bucks to be a real threat. Honestly, Joel and Bede getting hurt too. Like, if that all had all stayed together, if Joel and Bid could have stayed healthy, you'd have an awesome Sixers team,

an awesome Celtics team, an awesome Cavs team, an awesome Pacers team, an awesome Bucks team. Like, you'd have a lot of really good teams at the top of the Eastern Conference. You just have Dame not chopped the bucks off at the knees, Halliburton chopped Pacers off at the knees, and Tatum chop the Celtics off at the knees.

So you basically have now, and I've left the Knicks off that list earlier as the sixth team, but like now you're basically like limited down to, oh, and B'd in the Sixers obviously got chopped up at the knees too. So now you basically just have the calves and Knicks left at the top of the conference.

And it honestly, what'll be fun is it'll give us an opportunity this year to see some more playoff basketball from some of the younger talent in the East. I think we'll get to see Trey Young and the Hawks get another shot. at this. I think we'll get to see Kate Cunningham potentially get to a second

playoff series, second playoff round. I think we're going to get to see some of that element there get some exposure for some of those guys. The Orlando Magic is another example of a team that could benefit from that. But it's just bad luck. Injury luck and there's not really anything the league can do about it. Hey, it's us to Jonas

brothers and guess what? We have some big news. What's the news? Huge news. We created our own podcast called Hey Jonas. We invented a podcast Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to it. We're the first people to do podcasts. Pretty, yeah, pretty wide range of podcasts throughout there.

But this one's extra special. So how did we actually come up with a name, Hey Jonas, guys? I honestly don't remember. I think it was on a call about what we should call it. Oh, we were thinking I'm originally calling it one of the early names of our band. Before Jonas Brothers was... This is how you guys remember it going down? Yes.

I have a very different memory of this. We were talking about a thing, a bit for the podcast, where people could call in and say, hey, Jonas. And then I wrote down on my little notepad, Hey Jonas, and offered it up as a potential title for the podcast. But thanks for remembering that, guys. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman, Help make you funnier. This week, my guest, S&L's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter.

Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying,

and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise. Breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves. Their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real.

From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context and ask the questions everybody wants answered. Sports slice brings you closer to the action. with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to SportsSlice on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slicelife-Life 12 in the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. The French Open is one of the toughest tests in tennis. And I know firsthand because I competed there myself.

I'm Renee Stubbs, and on the Renee Stubbs tennis podcast, I'm breaking down everything happening at Roland Garris. Every match, every upset, and what it really takes to win on clay. Jenchian won. I mean, she went down in three to Rabakina, but I'm delighted. She's an outsider to win the French for me. And she likes Clay. Listen, Lena Rubakina is arguably the best player in the world right now. And I actually can win on any surface.

Because if she's serving, well, good luck. Consider this your court side seat to the French Open. Listen to the Renee Stubbs tennis podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHeart Women's Sports. Next question. LeBron was better than Steph last year. Even in their head-to-head matchups, LeBron hit more clutch shots and led his team to victory while Steph was often not hyper-efficient from the field when the Warriors needed him. When LeBron was playing on an injured foot, Steph was better, but LeBron was playing

like a shell of himself. He just had no choice but to play because of the playing situation. LeBron was definitely better than Steph for pretty much the entire Olympics as well. And while LeBron does slack on defense for possessions, he has a gear on defense that Steph has never been able to approach in his career. Like you can't take points for LeBron's mediocre defense at times when Steph's defense is consistently mediocre even when he tries. Teams constantly attack Steph on offense

while very rarely do teams run plays to attack 40-year-old LeBron. And LeBron still runs the defense at times even when he's not actively in the play by calling out plays and telling players where they need to be. Draymond does all of that for Steph. So if you were going to make a case for why LeBron was better than Steph Steph over the last couple years, I think you broke it down really. well, so I want to give you credit for that. I think there are a couple specific things I push back on.

So, for instance, like LeBron being better in the head-to-head matchups, the Lakers have had a better roster over the last couple of years. So, like, I think it's just worth mentioning that basketball is easier when you're surrounded by more talent. And so I think that that played a big role in the head-to-head matchups. Secondly, I do think LeBron reached a higher level last year in that stretch from late January to early March than Steph did at any point last year. But LeBron was only there for 16 games.

And for the rest of the year, there's just that Steph offensive engine thing. We're still to this day when he's running around. They're still sending two guys to him and all these guys are getting these open shots. And again, a pretty limited roster for the Warriors, just adding Jimmy Butler, but losing Andrew Wiggins in the process,

a bunch of mediocre role player talent. Steph took those guys, I think, 20 and 7 after the All-Star break with the number one defense in the league and the number seven offense. Like I, again, I do think that LeBron very briefly hit a level last year that was higher than anything Steph did last year. But for the totality of when they were available as basketball players, I did have Steph just a touch higher. And for the record, you guys will see where Steph ends up on this list. I don't have him much higher than LeBron. But I do think, especially over these last couple of years, basically since 2023.

I mean, even in 2022, I thought, that LeBron to me stopped being able to consistently reach the top tier when Solomon Hill dove into his ankle in 2021, which by the way is right about the same age that Steph is right now. So like we'll see if Steph can maintain it. And who knows, maybe LeBron is a big Ford who can rely on size and strength and intelligence. Maybe he'll pass Steph again in the next coming a couple of years. Maybe that'll happen.

But right now it's me that supreme gift Steph has to just run in circles. and fuck things up for a defense by getting two to the ball. That, to me, just kind of keeps him just that hair's breadth ahead of LeBron in the meantime. But again, I think you made a good case. Next question. Why is it that you grade Steph and LBJ on past year's success instead of focusing on what they're currently doing? This is from a troll who's always commenting underneath the videos.

But I don't really know what to say other than to say that Stefan LeBron both made second team all NBA last year. So everybody seems to think that they were awesome except for you. so I think that's something that you need to evaluate. Hey, Jason, I can't express enough my appreciation for your show. You've helped me discover a love for analytical basketball and have completely changed my perspective when watching the NBA. Thanks for everything you do.

Curious about your past experience with media and whether you studied journalism or something communications adjacent. How did you develop the skills for script writing and public speaking? It's evident that a lot of effort and experience goes into your work and wonder about how the evolution has come about over the year. years. So I, my pathway into sports media was different. And like, I don't want to say, I hate when anyone says that like, oh, this is the way to do it because there's always just a different way to do it. There's a million different ways to crack into this space.

I remember when I was, starting with the educational background, my educational background was, I was naturally good at math. And so I ended up getting into a lot of like pre-engineering stuff and engineering-focused stuff. I have an associate some pre-engineering from Utah State University. And I hated math. I just was good at it. The classes that I had the most fun in

when I was in college were my English classes. And when you're just talking about, like, doing research and forming an argument and laying out your argument analytically and, you know, in the form of writing, that was where I had the most fun when I was in college. So, like, it's funny, because when I look back now, I actually wish I would have studied English or studied something along those lines because I just think I would have had more fun while I was in college.

The math thing just really bummed me out while I was there most of the time, which was a bummer because, like, again, I was good at it. And I had the problem of like everybody telling me I should do math. Like my high school math teachers are like, you need to do engineering. Here's the classes you need to be taking. Here's the program you need to go into. Like, I got into the University of Arizona School of Engineering like as a freshman. and I, like, hated it so much that I immediately flunked out of the U of A. Because I just, I legitimately hated it.

And all I wanted to do was play basketball. And I was just going down and playing a pickup basketball every day. And I just, I was not mentally engaged by math or by engineering at all. I've told this full story with Ethan Strauss on his podcast before. But the very short version of it is I was bad in school until I was on a basketball team in college, a juco team and i was loving it having the time of my life in practice and one day i got called into the office by the eligibility coordinator and he was like yo dude your grades are fucking terrible like how are you going to play like we can't get you on the floor and i was like oh shit yeah like

you can't just not go to class and get to play college basketball that's not how it works right and so i sat down with the guy and i was like what do i need to do to uh to get eligible and he's like all right well first of all you're not playing this semester at all this was the fall semester. He's like, if you want to play in the spring, you've got to take a full 16 unit load over winter break. And I did. I took 16 units worth of classes that winter break and got,

or no, it wasn't 16, it was 12, whatever four classes is, four three unit classes. So I had to take a full 12 unit class load over like a three week period over winter break, got A's and all four of them, got eligible for the next. semester. I had to take a full semester load that semester. And then I had to take it again, another full load in the summer because the way that it worked was like you had to average your first two years together in order to form your like GPA for the following season. So I had to like

make up all of my shitty not paying attention and not putting in the work in school by taking extra classes over the winter break and over the summer break, basically the two full class loads during that time. And it was funny, because if you, like, look at my schooling history, I legitimately, like, was one of the worst students you've ever seen. And then I became a good student. The minute someone sat me down and was like, you can't play basketball unless you get your school together. And it just goes to show you, like, I talked about this with Ethan in that show. It's something I kind of hate about myself, but like I have a really strong work ethic when I'm doing something that I love. And then I can be pretty lazy when I don't care about it. And I hate that about myself.

I wish I had more mental fortitude to be able to motivate myself to do things that are harder in life. And I really hope that doesn't come back to bite me in the ass one day. But like, fortunately, that I have been able to find things like this that have kept me focus and have kept me energized and have allowed me to bring work ethic to the equation and actually pour my heart and soul into something and do quality work. But I was definitely not a good student up until I had to be. And then I just did what I had to do to get through school. And like, even when I was in my last year in college, I transferred from Juco for a basketball situation. So I wanted to go to the best basketball team. And so I had, I got recruited by this team in Phoenix called Arizona

Christian University. And they were this incredible. basketball team. But it was like awful for me academically because they didn't have anything engineering wise. And they had all these like Bible courses. So like I had like 120 something college credits, but I only have an associate's degree because I pursued just basketball situations and just took class loads that fit whatever that school had available to them. So again, thankfully I was able to find something like this. That was a big part of why I ended up in real estate actually before I did this was because real estate was something where I could essentially just connect with people and try to drive business that way rather than needing a specific degree or needing a specific

technical skill, if that makes sense. But everything was driven for me by basketball. And in effect, I kind of bet my life on basketball. And so I'm very, very lucky to have landed where I landed. But to make a long story short, like if I had to guess where the communication skills came from, I credit a lot of it to just being put in really uncomfortable situations. So like going to play college basketball, being dropped off by my parents in Utah at a juco where I'm living in a dorm with a bunch of other people. I was like literally forced to like learn how to engage with people and to build relationships. It like kind of forced me to be uncomfortable in that sense.

And then the second piece of it was real estate. I think real estate was really good for me. In the real estate business, my first like year and a half, I was in the investment side. So I was working on like flips and and renovations and things along those lines. Right. And so I learned a ton about that. And then when I got into the actual like resale part of it, meaning like helping families buy and sell houses. At that point, it was like I'd meet them at an open house. And the way I'd earn their business was by connecting with them and by expressing to them that I had an area of expertise, right? Obviously what I knew about the industry from flipping and

I knew about the buying and selling process, right? And I think just having those conversations over and over and over and over and over again, again, I would hold like five open houses a week. That was how I drove business when I was doing that. But when I was doing that stuff, I think that just gave me a lot of really good reps. And so I think that was a big part of it. I think in general, like the English classes and writing classes that I took while I was in college, I think helped a lot.

But a lot of it just is, again, just me loving basketball. ball and me happening to land into a situation where I can channel that through my work ethic because I love the game. Now, as far as like getting into the industry, I've talked about this on the show before, but the long and short of it is I don't think it's very complicated anymore. I think if you want to get into sports media, I think you just need to start making content. I don't think like, you know, it's so funny. I remember hitting up radio stations and asking to work the board and like trying to write for a blog and like trying to do these things. that like were the traditional route to getting into a position. And what's so funny about that is like

in retrospect, I feel like everything could have gone faster if I just started making content. The bottom line is, is it's less expensive than ever for any of you guys to go on Amazon and to get a microphone and a webcam. And you can go on Facebook marketplace and get a MacBook for a few hundred bucks and you can go home and you can put in the work in terms of learning about whatever it is kind of content you want to make finding that lane and then recording and uploading to YouTube uploading to social media they have natural algorithms built in there that promote your content based on how many people watch it and how long they watch it for and so you have the ability to create your own content and naturally it will get discovered it just it just will

If it's good, if it brings value to the space, people will find it naturally through the algorithm and it will start to build momentum. The only things I would say is like one, it is more flooded than ever, two, which I think is a good thing like we've talked about earlier. But what that means is it's harder to stand out, which means you've got to put in the work. So like make sure that you put your heart and soul into it. Give it everything you've got. And secondly, be yourself. Don't try to be someone else. don't try to run in a lane that someone's already running in because you're not going to do a

very good job of it because it's not you. The best chance you have to be the best version of yourself is to be yourself and channel whatever it is that you love through your own personality and how that reflects in your content. And I think if you just do that, you give yourself a chance. And like, again, like you can do that on the side. Have a job. I did it while I was selling real estate. Talked about those open houses. You want to know what I was doing when I was not, when I was not talking actively to clients, when I was sitting in houses waiting for people to show up. I was watching film. I was talking about the game. I was writing for a blog. Like, those are phases where you can, if you can find a job that has some amount of flexibility to

where, like, when you're done with work, you just channel that energy into content creation. Just do it at home. Do it on social media. Do it. on YouTube, get it out there, let the algorithm do the work. That would be the best advice I can give at this point. Next question. I've got a couple more quick ones. Now that you move to Denver, should we expect you being a Nuggets fan? No. I enjoy watching the Nuggets. I enjoy Nuggets fans. I have nothing against the Nuggets. I think they play a beautiful brand of basketball, but I won't actively root for the Nuggets. Next part of the question. I also hope you will talk more about the Nuggets and maybe some collaborations with the DNVR guys. I will talk more about the Nuggets

because I think the Nuggets are going to win the title this year. I have a feeling they're going to end up being my pick when I finalized my picks. I think they're a much better version of any team, Nicole Yokic has had. And as long as they're kicking butt, as it is always the case, we will continue to cover the teams at the top of the league more. So Denver will naturally get more coverage that way. As far as the DMVR guys go, I got to meet. I've met Adam before several times. As I've mentioned on the show, he's been very kind to my wife and I since we moved here. But I went to Chicken Fight on Thursday night, which was at this basically this place called Yelich Gardens, I believe is what it's called. It's in downtown Denver.

It's basically like a kind of an older amusement park. But I met a bunch of the DNVR crew there, all very nice people. It was great to meet them, great to hang out with them. Chicken Fight was basically just like a bunch of chicken restaurants coming down and showcasing their chicken. so got to try a bunch of good local food. But I'm sure I'll be hanging out with the DMVR guys on occasion just because I love basketball and they're going to be some of the basketball fans here in town.

And obviously Adam is already a big friend of mine. But like I don't think I'll actively root for the nuggets. I think that it will just clash too hard with my current rooting interests. And still is digging at me that I had to come on this show and work after two Jamal Murray game winners two seasons ago. but thank you so much for the kind words and for supporting the show. Do you think LeBron is a better three-point shooter than MJ? I was arguing with someone in my arguments were that if MJ and LeBron were drafted in 2003,

MJ would be a better three-point shooter simply due to his shooting form mechanics. He then brought up DeMar de Rosen, and my counter argument was MJ was cleaner and more impressive athlete that didn't rely on shooting as much as most perimeter guards. Also, DeMar's jumper has a weird hitch. I agree. Jamar has like a, Demar has like a catapult forward in his shot, which I think is uniquely good for the mid-range, but not so much for the three-point line. I think MJ did have a much more natural shooting release. And to support my claim, I brought up Kauai.

Do you agree with me or him? I think bronze jumper is just naturally flawed and it allows him to take certain types of threes. It's a mechanics problem, in my opinion. So I 100% agree with you. I think that if MJ was drafted in 2003, he would have eventually become a 40% three-point shooter. I think he's too obsessively competitive. I think his position group demands it. in the modern NBA. And I think that he does have the shooting mechanics to be an excellent three-point shooter. So on that level, I absolutely agree with you.

The LeBron thing is a little more complicated. On the one hand, I do agree that he has naturally kind of flawed mechanics. And I think that that limits him on certain types of situations. Like he crossfires a bit, which means he's really good going to his left, but not so much going to his right. I think that's hurt him in the post a little bit. And I think that's hurt him as a movement shooter going to his right,

like shooting off the dribble going to his right. Um, that said, like, one of the things with LeBron is like, he just gets really good looks. And one of the reasons he gets really good looks is he's still one of the most gifted players in the league at getting to the basket. And especially in his prime. Like, you can't press up on LeBron on a closeout because he's just going to go right around you and break your off, break your defense. So like with LeBron, it's kind of fascinating because I look at him as being like a guy that shoots the ball well, even though he has bad form. because he gets such great looks, but he deserves the credit for getting such great looks because he gets himself open by the threat of his downhill force.

Two more quick ones. So I report recently where it said Reeves is apparently asking for Tyler Harrow money. Question is, who you got between the two? A couple of years ago, I think it was easily Tyler. But after last season, I think Reeves' IQ and confidence hit a new level where he learned how to be effective when all the stars are gone while also being a great second, third option next to stars.

Jason. So on the one hand, I'm a big Austin Reeves fan and there's a part of me that wants to immediately scream, Austin Reeves is better. But the reason why I couldn't say that and why I wouldn't say that until a couple of years from now is it's just different when you're in the situation Tyler Harrow was in last year where you're at the top of the scouting report every single day. That's the role that Tyler Harrow was in. Austin's really never been in that role. Yeah, Austin had his moments like the Indiana game last year where LeBron and Luke are out and he just single-handedly beats the Pacers. And that is what makes me optimistic that Austin Reeves could be a better player than Tyler Harrow. But I don't think it's fair to just put Reeves on that level until he faces a

whole season where he's like in that sort of situation where he's at the top of the scouting report. And he may never be in that situation as a Laker. But I just think it makes it complicated. Like when you were deciding how to guard the Miami Heat last year, you were always thinking about Tyler Harrow. first. And I think that just, I think that just makes things a little bit tougher. Tyler Harrow is certainly a more gifted perimeter shooter. Austin Reeves feels like a more natural passer. I think Austin's a better defensive player too. Austin's probably a little bit more crafty getting to the basket. But again, it's just, it's just really difficult to compare those two roles directly head to head. Lastly, what is the best ski mountain on the epic pass? Ski related question.

I was talking with Carly the other day. We're trying to decide if we want to get another. We got epic passes for this year. Our first time getting full epic passes because now we're actually living in Denver. That was the whole upside. But Breck has always been my favorite mountain just because we used to go with friends and family all the time. And Breck brings that unique combination of like really versatile mountain, meaning like, there's really easy terrain for amateurs. There's all sorts of intermediate terrain and there's really tough terrain.

they have two high speed lifts that go up over 12,000 feet on peak seven or peak eight and on peak six and they have like a groomed blue off the top of peak six called reverie which is like one of my favorite runs in the world you're above the tree line you're at like 12,500 feet and you just ski down the face of a mountain it's incredible peak eight is the highest high speed chair in the entire north american in all of north america if I'm not mistaken um and then peak 10 has a bunch of really cool advanced terrain. So it's got really versatile terrain. But then it also has this sick town with lots of good, you know, like a really nice bar restaurant scene. So like it's a great place for us to go with my friends and family. This year's going to be different though, because we're going to

mostly be commuting in from Denver to ski every day. Like we're not going to be staying on the mountains very much. So I'm wondering which mountain all like like, like, the four epic mountains there are Breckenridge, Keystone, which I've only skied once and it was in a blizzard. So I want to try it again. Keystone's a little closer to me too, so I'm excited to try it more. It's like 10 minutes closer, which could make it a go-to for us. Then there's Vail and then there's Beaver Creek. And those two, I haven't skied either of those. So this year will be my first time skiing both of those. So stand by, I'll tell you guys which one I like out of those two. My favorite mountain back there is actually Copper Mountain, though. And then a lot of people have been trying to get us

to try Winter Park, which I've never tried. Winter Park and Copper are both on the icon pass. so we'll look into it and maybe if we get bored with the epic mountains, we might get an icon pass as well. But if I had to say right now, I'd say Breck, just because it's so versatile. But I think my circumstances this year are different since we won't be staying on the mountain as much. But looking forward to it,

my goal this year is to get 50 days in. It's going to make me do all sorts of crazy shit with work, like a lot of two days and stuff like that, but I'll do whatever it takes to make skiing happen. It's just, I view this as like a little tiny window in time before my wife and I have kids where, where like what if this is where we look back and go like, hey, remember when we just skied our asses off for two years? That's kind of what I'm hoping this looks like. So that's,

you know, our plan at this point. But we'll see. I'll keep you guys updated. All right. As always, I sincerely appreciate you guys for supporting us and supporting the show. We will be back on Monday with number six. I'll see you guys. Hey, guys, it's us. The Jonas Brothers. I'm Joe. I'm Kevin. And I'm Nick. And guess what? We created our own podcast called. Hey, Jonas. We invented a podcast. Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to it. We're the first people to do podcasts. We get to ask other people questions because we're sick and tired of being asked questions.

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