The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Hoops Tonight - WTF is Giannis doing, Steph & Warriors plan, can Pelinka save Lakers? | NBA Trade Deadline Reaction

Episode Date: February 7, 2026

Jason reacts to the end of the NBA trade deadline to give his big picture thoughts including the strange situation with Giannis Antetokounmpo and the Milwaukee Bucks, what level of contender Anthony Edwards and the Minnesota Timberwolves are, what the Golden State Warriors should do next around Steph Curry, whether Rob Pelinka can add talent around Luka Doncic on the Los Angeles Lakers, and more. All lines presented by Hard Rock Bet.  #VolumeSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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The Volume. All right, welcome to who tonight here at The Volume. Happy Friday, everybody. I hope all of you guys have had an incredible week. Today is Mailbag today. And we are staying keyed in on the trade deadline. So all of the mailbag questions that I've received from you guys for today

have come from our trade deadline reactions and are going to be focused around the trade deadline. You guys know the deal before we get started. Subscribe to the Hoops Tonight YouTube channel so you don't miss any more of our videos. Make sure you like this video that helps us a lot. And then last but not least, if you want to get questions into these mailbags like this,

like we do every Friday, drop them in our full episodes on YouTube underneath the video, mailbag, colon, write your question that helps me sort through it when I'm looking through the comments. We'll get to them on Fridays throughout the remainder of this season. All right, let's talk some basketball. It was kind of a wild night in the NBA last. night. So like the Warriors came back from down 14 in the fourth quarter to beat the Sons

in Phoenix. Victor Women Yama and Cooper Flag had a fun battle against each other. The Spurs pulled away late in the Lakers got Austin Reeves back and then promptly lost Luca to a hamstring injury as their season is appearing to be cursed in its own way. But Austin fried the Sixers for 35 points. It was really nice to have him back and honestly just a really fun basketball player to watch. I enjoyed watching Austin last night. Joel and Bede is starting to look like MVP and beat again and he's been averaging 30 for 21 games now. The Rockets lost at home for the third time in four tries and both Ema, Udoca and Kevin Durant were like openly shitting on Alper and Shangun's defense, which was interesting. Will Riley and Sharif Cooper fried up the pistons in Detroit.

It's kind of a wild NBA night, but we're going to stay big picture on the trade deadline for today. We have plenty of time for game reactions over the next couple of months as we lead into the playoffs. We have a contender rankings video with Kevin O'Connor that is finally happening next week. Kevin had to reschedule because he got sick. And then we were going to go this week. But then I was like, nah, it doesn't make sense with the trade deadlines. So we decided to push it to next week so we can rank all the teams in the context of the deals that were made before this deadline. So that Kevin O'Connor contender rankings video will be on Wednesday next week. And then during the all-star break, we're going to do some big picture stuff too. We'll do rookie rankings.

We'll do MVP rankings. And we'll do, we'll talk a little bit about this upcoming draft lottery. I'm really starting to buy Darren Peterson's stock. I want to dive into him and AJ DeBonsa and some of the other guys at the top of this coming draft. But then after the All-Star break, we're really going to be diving back into games and studying these teams closely to get a good feel for them as playoff teams. But for today, again, trade mailbag. Let's get started with Janus. I have three kind of Janus-related mailbag questions that I want to get into.

Here's the first one. Janus staying isn't the end of the world like the media. makes it out to be. The only reason Yannis hasn't had a deep playoff run since 2021 is injuries to him and his co-stars. Yannis shouldn't ring chase like Katie and Hardin hurting his career. Janus is great enough to attract players like LeBron and Cleveland and the front office has shown to be capable of making a championship roster. I hope he stays the rest of his career. I think this is straight up delusional down the line. Like acting as though like the Dame Yonis, bucks were going to go win the title and the injury is what knocked them off.

That team was incredibly flawed. They haven't even won a playoff series since 2022. And it was the only playoff series they won since they hoisted the trophy. The idea like LeBron literally left Cleveland in large part because he couldn't attract somebody there. And he was a top tier superstar still best player in the world and like legitimately the first or second best player of all time. And he was having a hard time recruiting players to Cleveland.

and it was a big part of why he went to Los Angeles. So, like, this is, like, straight up delusional. And, like, everything that went down after the deadline yesterday was so cringy to me with Janus and the Bucks. Like, the making fun of Shams, for example, like, every NBA reporter of any level of reputation was covering the Janus saga. It was real. They were seriously canvassing the league for potential trades. So, like, you're not fooling any. buddy. Yanis is like, I'm not leaving post, except for that you would if it was the right situation and if they had enough to pay the wolves. And then like, well, what if you leave this summer? Like does that like that is just so cringy. And then he has this Instagram post where

he says legends attract. And it just came off as super lame after the whole trade saga. And again, it's completely delusional. Like you're you're not LeBron. You're 31 year old stars starting to fall apart physically in a city that like LeBron was in and he had to leave because he was having a hard time recruiting anybody. And then finally, Shams reports that the Bucks truly believe they can build a contender this summer around Janus in Milwaukee. I'm just, this saga is so tired, man. Like, you guys all refusing to acknowledge reality is what's going to sabotage both of your futures. Do you want to end up trading Janus for the Anthony Davis package here in a couple of years? Because that would set the franchise back. Yonis, again, you've won one playoff series

since you won the title. How much longer do you want to keep playing for a team that has no shot to win? This whole thing is just super lame to me. Nobody's buying that this trade saga was fake. It was real. You just backed out. You both you both like kind of half committed to it and then took a step back. Like, you guys realize Janus could have come out to the media two weeks ago or a week ago and been like, I'm never leaving. But no, that's not what happened. It's been mixed messaging and kind of weird passive comments about whether or not he's going to have an opportunity to win. And he definitely wants to stay, but he definitely realizes he probably should go. And it says, it's wishwashy. It's not committed. I'm a legend. Come to me. I'm never leaving.

It's like this weird wishwashy thing where now you're trying to point. your flag in that territory. And again, now that you guys have backed out out of all the deals, now you want the hometown loyalty legend card. I just thought it was tone deaf. Next one. Jason, it's not really complicated. Yannis enjoys his life in Milwaukee. He's deeply rooted to the city. He would like to stay put and have a competitive roster to play with. Meanwhile, the front office and ownership have been dead silent. Clearly they had some conversations and Yannis is hoping to see a plan executed to build a competitive team around him. The narratives that he want to leave are blah, blah, blah, just that, narratives.

He's never stated that in 13 seasons. He's easy to please. He just wants a team that can compete. Get Rivers out of here this summer and work on free agency. Move some guys for draft capital and enjoy the lottery pick. It's not complicated. He won with Middleton and Holiday. He simply needs committed, selfless, consistent teammates.

He doesn't need Yoke-It-Jesh or anyone on that language, a wavelength to compete. Just competent staff and teammates. Try and see past the rumors. Watch him interact with Bucks. media focus on the facts. Again, nobody's buying this. Nobody is buying it. When you look at this situation in Milwaukee, he very clearly at any point in the last couple of weeks could have stepped forward and been like, I'm never leaving and he did not. He has for years now made these kind of passive comments about whether or not he would leave Milwaukee if the situation was right.

there have been plenty of opportunities for him to dispel this rumor and he has not done so. After the deadline, when the bell rang and it was over, then he comes out and goes like, I'm not leaving. It just feels like it is exactly that. It's a narrative. It's Janus trying to control the narrative. Him and the Bucks went out and looked this summer. There was no combination of perfect spot for Janus plus the return that the Bucks were looking for. So both of them pulled back. And now you're trying to pretend like it didn't happen. Like, watch him interact with Bucks Media, focus on the facts. Like, if you actually watch Janice's interactions over the years,

there has not been a definitive. I'm never leaving. I'm retiring as a buck. We're going to figure this shit out. If he would have done that, nobody would be talking the way that I'm talking right now. Nobody would be saying the things that we're saying. It has been the passive, wish-washy, unwillingness

to actually commit to either staying a buck, or let's move the fuck on. Okay. And you guys get as much as you can for me so you can rebuild and I'm going to go play serious basketball somewhere. Pick a lane. Pick a damn lane and people will stop playing these cards. But like this whole like this move from some of these Bucks fans and from and from Janus and from the front office to be like actually this is what we were doing the whole time. Nobody is buying it. There's not a single person that's buying it. Last last one. Maybe people should take him at his word when he said he says he wants to retire a buck. I hear from

everybody else as to what he wants. From all I've heard is that he wants to retire a buck. Again, he could have come out last week and been like, I'm never leaving. I'm retiring a buck. Put your trade packages away. I'm staying here. And he didn't do that. So guess what? Nobody's buying your shit. So I'm kind of done with it. Pick a lane, Janus. Stay a buck forever and say you're going to do it. or go move on so that all of us can move on as well. Next question. With the wolves trades, how does this change their rankings for a championship? So here's the thing. I actually already had the wolves as a top tier contender. They weren't a top tier contender in my last list, but I've been, as you guys know,

trying to plan this contender rankings with Kevin O'Connor for a few weeks now, and I'd already put together a preliminary list, and I've talked about it on the show. I look at the wolves as a legitimate top tier contender. The main reason why is I just think they have the combination of perimeter athleticism and physicality with rim protection that you need to win four playoff rounds defensively. And then on the other end of the floor, the combination of size, ball handling, and shooting that you need to break down the best defenses in the league. So I already liked them in that regard.

Now I look at their rotation and I'm adding I.O. Dissoumoo in the spot where we're getting a lot of Mike Conley and Jalen Clark minutes, two guys that have both been making less than a third of their threes and Mike, you know, obviously struggles with the athleticism and physicality at this point in his career. Jalen Clark has been a guy that's really helped anchor some of their defensive units, but such a bad offensive player that I assume it was just nothing but a massive upgrade. So it certainly will help them a lot. The kind of thing that I think it will work quite a bit for them in their advantages in like the OKC matchup. So for example, a lot of times when you're breaking down OKC's defense, you have to do it incrementally. Why? Because they're so good at rotating. So

When you play against bad defenses, you're going to run that first action, hit that first drive, and the guy's going to help, and there's going to be a wide open shooter, and you're going to throw the wide open kickout pass, and the guy's going to shoot a three. And it's because they're not as on a string defensively, and the gaps are bigger and you can get straighter line drives. And it's just easier to break them down, right? Against the elite defenses in the league, not only is it harder to get that first initial advantage, but when you do, they're better at rotating and they have more length and athleticism. So those windows are smaller. and so all of a sudden it becomes a kind of thing where you have to break down defenses incrementally, meaning like get a little bit of an advantage, grow the advantage, grow the

advantage, and maybe on that third or fourth attack in the possession, you can get a decent look off, right? And even then, a lot of times against the best defenses in the league, you're not getting open threes, you're not getting open layups, you're getting advantages where score has to hit some sort of tougher shot. Maybe it's a contested catch and shoot three. Maybe it's a three off of a side step or a stepback move against the closeout. Maybe it's racking a close out and hitting a mid-range jump shot or a floater. Maybe it's you finally just get a matchup that you like. And that guy's got to go one-on-one and score.

And so adding a high-level offensive talent, again, that's what I-O Dissue is. And that's why I was so excited about him coming into the deadline. I just think I-O is a very well-rounded offensive player who can hit, pull-up jump shots from a variety of spots on the floor that can really pressure the rim and finish well when he gets there. and just brings a higher level of offensive polish. I think that, you know, when you look at last year's team and how important Nikiel Alexander Walker was,

and they're different players. Like, Nikiel was very good for Minnesota last year and has actually been even better offensively for Atlanta. But I think this version of Io D'Soumoo is better than last year's version of Nikiel Alexander Walker offensively. I think Nikiel Alexander Walker was a better defensive player than IOTUS who it's a different type of player. but you're replicating that depth and bringing more offensive polish,

which is where I think they actually need more help when they get into those big moments in these big playoff series. And Anthony Edwards is better. And Jada McDaniels is better. And Rudy Goldberg is better. And that's what you're looking at with this group, as I consider them a top-tier contender. I am incredibly excited to tell you guys about our new partnership with Viori.

Those of you guys who are familiar with Viori have noticed that I wear it on the show. And I have done so for years now. almost every single day because it's become a workhorse for me. And that's why I'm so excited about this partnership. I've actually been advocating for this behind the scenes for a while. It's a product I really believe in, and I'm really excited that we get to partnership with them now. My journey with Viori started because of a very simple problem. I'd wear shirts on the show, and then after I'd wash them four or five times,

they would just kind of degrade and turn into something that wasn't anything close to what I had originally purchased. And so I wanted to invest in quality clothing that could become my worst. course for my daily life. And that is exactly what Viori is. From the Sunday performance sweatpants that I wear around my house all the time that's super comfortable, that even now that it's cold in Colorado and I go play basketball, I can literally play basketball in the same sweatpants to the Sunday performance shorts that I play basketball in. My favorite thing about Viori is all this stuff, all this clothing is so perfect for the active lifestyle that I live, but it's all so high quality and so attractive looking that I can wear it in formal settings. I live in this stuff

every single day and I'm so excited that we have the opportunity to partner with them now. Viori is an investment in your happiness. For our listeners, they're offering 20% off your first purchase. Get yourself some of the most comfortable and versatile clothing on the planet at Viori.com slash hoops. That's V-U-O-R-I-com slash H-O-O-P-S. Exclusions apply. Visit the website for full terms and conditions. Not only will you receive 20% off your first purchase, but enjoy free shipping on any U.S. orders over $75 in free returns. Visit viori.com slash hoops and discover the versatility of Yori clothing. Exclusions apply. Visit the website for full terms and conditions. Hey, it's us, the Jonas Brothers, and guess what?

We have some big news. What's the news, name? Huge news. We created our own podcast called Hey Jonas. We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to it. We're the first people to do podcasts.

Pretty, yeah, pretty wide range of podcasts throughout there. But this one's extra special. So how do we actually come up with a name, Hey Jonas, guys? I honestly don't remember. I think it was on a call about what we should call it. And, well, we were thinking I'm originally calling it one of the early names of our band before Jonas Brothers. This is how you guys remember it going down? Yes.

I have a very different memory of this. We were talking about a thing, a bit for the podcast, where people could call in and say, hey, Jonas. And then I wrote down on my little notepad, Hey Jonas, and offered it up as a potential title for the podcast. But thanks for remembering that, guys. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you

funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Jacob Kingston grew up in an isolated polygamous sect. We were God's chosen kingdom on earth. He felt destined for greatness. So when a swaggering Armenian businessman catapults Jacob into an extraordinary world, he doesn't look back.

Ferraris and Lamborghinis, private jets, meeting the president of Turkey. I'm Michelle McPhee, and this is one of the most shrewd, shocking criminal conspiracies I've ever come across. When Jacob met Levant this went to a billion-dollar fraud. But with two kings from entirely different worlds, just how long can their empire survive? The largest tax investigation in American history. You need to tell me what you know.

Is somebody coming after me? Jacob told Levan, you're ruining my life. Listen to Kingdom of Fraud on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast. or wherever you get your podcast. All right, a couple of, we have two Warriors related questions. Jason, where do the Warriors go from here? Another wasted year of Steph Curry.

The Warriors have no chance of winning the title. Draymond is not the same player. Do they pivot this offseason from Dre and hope Jimmy comes back at some point next year? How do you envision them maneuvering the off season? So I'm not going to say that it's out of the realm of possibility that if the right opportunity pops up this summer that the Warriors wouldn't jump on it.

But I want to take you guys back to something I said in yesterday's show, which was when we're talking about the attitude that the Warriors and the Lakers had, which was let's save our high value assets, let's make small moves on the margins, stuff with second round picks, hunting a distressed star like Jimmy rather than a star that might cost them a couple of first round picks, right? Like doing everything on the margins,

their reasoning was, you know, they don't believe in LeBron instead. They don't believe in their ability to. We were talking about that with the, the Lakers as a corollary, if you remember yesterday. Like those front offices, those ownership groups,

don't believe in those stars, right? And so because they didn't believe, they worked on the margins and they waited. And then with each passing year, their stance was like entrenched even further because the player's older, right? So like,

if you're going to sit on your hands, because Steph is 37, for example, and not make a super aggressive move, and then you did it again when he was 38. Next year, Steph turns 39. So why would they suddenly be like, okay, here's the first round picks

when Steph's going to turn 39 in March of next season, right? So like, I'm not going to say it's out of the realm of possibility, but I think them moving comminga and moving salary and not spending a single first round pick and actually taking a pick back for a player and Trace Jackson Davis is a problem. pretty strong signal that they're not spending anymore on this core. So like if I was a warrior's fan, again, it's not out of the realm of possibility, but I would not get my hopes up.

I think it's more likely than not that they continue to work on the margins and work for cheap for the rest of the Steph Curry era and save all those picks and, you know, see what happens down the line. You know, it's kind of funny because I was actually thinking about this yesterday. the thing that I constantly get into disagreements with when we start to discuss assets is this idea that first round picks are guaranteed to become good players. And they're just not. Like, I thought the Memphis Grizzlies blowing up was a perfect example of this. And Sam Vassini, my buddy, who covers the league, he lives out in Melbourne.

He tweeted something about this after the deal. And I thought it was really fascinating. He was talking about how Memphis has to blow up their team. because, you know, even though Jaron Jackson brings a lot of talent to the table and Desmond Bain brought a lot of talents to the table and Dylan Brooks obviously was a big anchor for that team in the early 2020s when they were great,

but the entire thing fell apart because they're superstar, John Morant, because one guy that looked like he might be a star instead got worse and worse every year and had behavioral issues and had health issues. And so the whole thing fell apart. You actually hit on several picks hit on several things in the front office. Sam pointed out accurately that the depth of talent

on the roster, like those guys in that like six through 15 spot on the roster every year for Memphis had been talented guys that they've hit on. And it didn't matter because they botched things with their star, right? And it wasn't even their fault. It was John Morant's fault, right? That's the thing that's so crazy about this is like you can go through four first round picks, you know, trade two of them for a role player. And if none of those first round picks end up popping the way that Steph Curry pops or even in the same territory as Steph Curry, you have no chance to win. Like, ultimately, you've got to have the guy. And what's been so frustrating about what happened with the Warriors over the last few years and with the Lakers from their title to when Luca was acquired is

they had the foundational guy that like literally 25 teams in the league don't have. And, and, you know, like at least 22, 23 teams in the league have like no shot to win because they don't have that guy. And you're sitting there thinking about whether or not this first round pick is going to amount to something. And again, like all of your first round picks that you got from those gap years from the injuries in 2019 and 2020 and 2021, like from those gap years, none of those dudes, not a single damn one of them even sniffed star potential. Not not one. And you had top, You had multiple top 10 picks in that stretch. Not a damn one of them panned out to be a star. And you're looking at all these future first round picks as the future of your team. And like,

that's what's so frustrating is like if you have no shot, like let's say Steph had blown out his knee two years ago, then yeah, by all means, you have no shot. You're trying to build through the draft and you have to play that lottery game and you have to take your chances on the guys that might pan out and might not pan out. And you have to play that game. But, You had Steph. You didn't have to. You had the guy. You could have turned those unknown risky commodities

into a known commodity, like a Pascal Seacum or an OG and Obie when those times arise. And they just, they never put their cards in the middle, their chips in the middle when those opportunities arose. And so I just think, again, I think that at this point we're so far along,

I'd be shocked if they suddenly decided to start making those kinds of moves. Hi, Jason, huge fan, and your segment regarding the Warriors utter failure, to go all in or at least provide enough assistance for Steph who was slash is still in his prime after the championship from 22 because they dared not to believe him, really hit the nail on the head and really hit for me. But it also got me thinking, has Steph been a victim of his niceness? Should he have pushed much harder to get actual chances to still compete for championships in the past few years? Should he have put more pressure on his organization and threatened

wanting out if things didn't change for the better? I realize that's not who Steph is, of course, and we lot and admire him for being such a wonderful type of super, super star overall, but was it in those circumstances actually a flaw once the organization itself didn't believe in him anymore? Thanks again, huge fan. Thanks again for the kind of words and thank you for supporting the show. This is a really interesting point. And my take on it is like, I think it does come down in a lot of ways to your personality and I just won't criticize a player either way. So I think that your circumstances are unique. Steph had some rough years early with the Warriors, but for the most part in Steph's career,

the Warriors have been very, very good at putting the talent around him to compete for championships. I mean, two of the titles he won with what I believe is the most talented roster in the history of the NBA. I mean, they won 15 consecutive playoff games at one point, right? So like, they've done an overwhelmingly good job, so he's been less incentivized to look elsewhere, but there also have been times, mainly in the last few years, where you could imagine a universe where Steph, like, kicks and screams a little bit and tries to get something done. My thing is like, I think it's defensible for a guy like step to be like, this has been an overwhelmingly good experience for me. I'm not going to rock the boat.

I'm a warrior for life. You guys have been good to me. I'm going to be good to you. We'll make this work. That's defensible. But I also think it's defensible for the LeBron types to be like, okay, I got drafted by the Cavs and they wasted seven years of my career and never once put a single player next to me as good as the types of dudes that, you know, Steph Curry was playing with with the Warriors. And so he looks at the situation and goes, this front office can't do it. I'm going to leave.

I'm going to put some pressure on Miami to surround me with talent. I'm going to put some pressure on Cleveland to surround me with talent. LeBron was, I almost look at it as like trust issues. Like LeBron, when he came into the league, was so, um, just disappointed with the performance of the Cavs, front office and ownership that he was like, shit, these dudes are incompetent. I've got to be the dude who's

kind of taking control of my own destiny and putting myself in situations where I have a chance to succeed. I think that's okay too. With Steph, it's like the opposite. They were so good for so long that he kind of trusted them a little too much towards the end and it ended up costing him. And I would argue that there's pros and cons in both directions.

I would argue that LeBron's kind of like agency, so to speak, him kind of taking control of his own situation has hurt him at points in his career. And I'd argue it's helped him at points in his career. And similarly with Steph, his loyalty has helped him in points in his career and it's hurt him over the tail end of his career. My whole thing is like, have sympathy for both sides. Like to me, when I look at a player, like, if you get drafted as Victor Wemnon Yama by the Spurs and they do an unbelievable job building around him the way that they have over the course of the last few years, like it kind of makes sense to. And it kind of makes sense to me that Wemby would go, I'm going to stay here forever, right? But if you get drafted into a

shit situation and your front office shows no ability to build around you, I'm okay with a player being like, nah, I'm taking control of my own destiny here, and I'm going to figure out a way to make my situation better. I just, I sympathize with both approaches. And I think for the most part, it's unique to the situation that you're in. Next question, mailback from a heat fan. What do you make of the fact that the last time Pat Riley pulled an undisputed whale was LeBron 16 years ago. I did feel really bad for Heat fans yesterday and a couple of different fronts. One, because they just like Golden State and just like many others have consistently held out for Janus, and it just hasn't worked out. And they've missed out on some other high-level players as part of

that process. They're not out of the mix yet. They could still theoretically get involved in a Yannis sweepstakes this summer, although I think it's going to be a lot more competitive. And who the hell knows. Maybe Janus and the Bucks are going to pull another, like, you know, oh, we're canvassing. Actually, never mind. I'm staying here forever. Like, who the hell knows what the bucks are going to do this summer and what Yonis is going to do this summer. But for the heat, I was disappointed for heat fans just because this is the latest example of them kind of missing out on the next guy. But most importantly, like they had some players. So say, for instance, you missed out on the Yonis deal because you didn't have enough draft compensation, for example.

like I am kind of disappointed that they didn't look at this team that has very little chance to win and go, why don't we sell off some of these parts for something and see if we can't make a move at some point this summer to bring in that guy? You know, like it might be, you know, flipping Andrew Wiggins for three or four seconds or something like that. I don't know if there was a first round pick out there for him. That's always hard to tell with the market. But like I'm surprised they didn't look to move some of their. you know, desired players just so that they could be in better position to try to make a move. But like instead, they're just kind of threading that middle of that area again,

where they're missing out on the stars and not selling the parts that they could sell for value. And so they're just kind of continuing to sit in the middle here. And I just hope for heat fans that the, that they finally do something to kind of shake things up at some point in the next year or two. Do you think the Pistons made a mistake not trying to find another above average score? I know best case scenario is probably MPJ, but even someone on a slightly lower tier than MPJ. I know we're first in the east,

but it feels like we missed out on making the roster more dynamic and just got rid of Ivy for no reason. I totally agree with you. I'm not going to sit here and pretend like there's no upside to the Pistons deal. Kevin Herder and in theory with Duncan Robinson can recreate some of that Malik Beasley, Tim Hardaway, junior dynamic with shooters, although Herder just hasn't shot the ball well this year,

but maybe Kaye Cunningham can set them up with some higher quality looks. But I looked at it the same way. I looked at it as a very small upgrade and getting rid of Ivy, a player that I actually like. And like, here's the deal. Maybe they looked at their cap sheet and they valued the, they looked at the situation with them eventually needing to pay, you know, a guy like a Sarr Thompson and Jalen Duren's getting paid this summer.

And, you know, obviously you've got Cade. And there's all these like different like variables. And they were probably just like, oh, well, we can't pay. jade and ivy my thing that what i think that gets tricky is if i look at this piston's roster when we've seen this kind of build before with the heliocentric start he does need a secondary handler he does need another guy that can really run the offense like we've only really seen that work in the past with in the context of lucca dunchage with a really high level secondary ball handler whether it's jalen brunson or it's kairi irving right and so like okay so let's say you don't

think that's Ivy. Well, who's going to be that guy, right? And, and as we look at this particular season, yes, I'm a huge believer in the Pistons. I think they're a second tier contender, a big believer in them in the big picture because of all of their strengths, the depth of perimeter defense talent and physical perimeter defenders and interior physical physical physicality and Kay Cunningham's advantage creation. But I don't view them as a top tier contender in large part because one, they are a team that is benefiting in the regular season from an effort and energy standpoint. We see this all the time, a young team that finally puts it all together and they play 100 miles an hour every single night and they just start racking up wins,

especially when you've got strong defense and rebounding foundation, right? But ultimately you get into the postseason and everybody picks up their intensity and everybody, everybody picks up their game planning. And I think that this Pistons team's not going to have enough offensive skill. And so like, again, I get it. Maybe it's not. a jade and ivy but like who was going to be that guy like we don't know who was available either it sounds like michael porter junior wasn't available but like why weren't they in on iosun mu like why didn't they try to get somebody to come in and bring some value as a second i like i like danis jenkins it's been a nice kind of like boost for the pistons this year i don't think he's the guy that's

going to be carrying as the secondary ball handler in the NBA playoffs this year so like i was a little disappointed too that they didn't do something more aggressive again like it's so it's for me in December to be like the Pistons should trade for Michael Porter Jr. If MPJ is not available, he's not available. And I don't know what the discussions were. I don't know if that was just Brooklyn jockeying in a negotiation. And maybe the Pistons could have got him for two first round picks or something like that. We don't know what the deal was.

But I do know that I. O'Dosunee was available for four seconds. And that's a high level offensive player that can run action and shoots the shit out of the three point out of the ball from three. like there's a lot of value there that he could bring. And a team like Minnesota looked at it and goes, we're close. Let's go get Iodosunu and make ourselves closer or maybe put ourselves into a different stratosphere. And Detroit, to me, is playing it safe.

And look, that's fine. But like, I don't think the pistons are a top tier contender. I would have considered them seriously if they had been more aggressive at this deadline. And they just weren't. And so in that sense, like I was a little disappointed. But who knows, maybe this ends in them losing in the conference finals. and then they do something big this summer and then they have a better opportunity.

But they're, you know, with how much of a bloodbath, the West is and how open this East is, I'm just surprised Detroit didn't get a little more aggressive in this particular deadline. Today's show is brought to you by presenting sponsor Hard Rock Bet, Florida's Sportsbook. We talk a lot of hoops on this podcast, but there's nothing like Big Game Week.

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What's the news, name? Huge news. We created our own podcast called, Hey Jonas. We invented a podcast. Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to it. We're the first people to do podcasts. Pretty, yeah, pretty wide range of podcasts. We're starting a trend. But this one's extra special. So how do we actually come up with a name Hey Jonas, guys? I honestly don't remember. I think it was on a call about what we should call it. Well, we were thinking I'm originally calling it one of the early names of our band before Jonas Brothers. This is how you guys remember it going down? Yes.

I have a very different memory of this. We were talking about a thing, a bit for the podcast, where people could call in and say, hey, Jonas. And then I wrote down on my little notepad, Hey Jonas, and offered it up as a potential title for the podcast. But thanks for remembering that, guys. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and Friends.

Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the IHeart Radio app. Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

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Listen to Kingdom of Fraud on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you. you get your podcast. What do you think if you're running the Hawks for the next two or three years, given the current roster, draft picks, and Cap Space? They're turning into a really funky team. It's interesting. One of the reasons why I was high on the Hawks coming into the season was the combination

of like all of these athletes that can do all of this stuff on the perimeter and in transition and even at the rim, you know, like I think Moge and Anneka-Kangu at times have been a really impactful defensive duo with their ability to cover ground and in drink the floor on guys, right? But like, it was that in combination with Tray Young because you need to have an offensive talent that can consistently break down the defense and generate quality shots. And look, it didn't work for a variety of reasons. Chris Hopps Porzingis was injured. Trey Young was injured. When Trey Young was healthy, they weren't able to play defense. Overall, the entire season, I think Trey got too much blame for the defense. I think the wings and

forwards deserve a lot more blame for what's going on defensively with this team and their and consistency there, guys like Jalen Johnson not being good on defense, guys like, it just hasn't come together, right? Well, now you remove Trey Young from the equation,

you remove Christopps Porzingis from the equation, you add another flawed forward to the equation. And yes, Nikiel Alexander Walker has had a really nice year offensively, but he's not about to lead you to the promised land offensively. And so I see these two kind of like clunky fit forwards in Kaminga in Jalen Johnson. And I'm high on Jalen Johnson's potential,

but I've talked about this with you guys, guys on the show already. To me, Jalen Johnson is years away from being like a real dead serious good basketball player, has to improve as a self-creator, has to become a more consistent defensive player in his effort and focus, especially off the ball if he's going to be able to play a serious role on a serious team. And this team has no high-level ball handling, like none of it. C.J. McCollum is the closest thing and he was available to you at that price point for a very specific reason. And so to me, the hawks have to have a plan to get that guy. And I don't know if it's going to be picks and comminga and some filler for a star at some point down the line or

if they're just banking on Jalen Johnson becoming that guy. I like Jalen Johnson. I don't think he's going to be an offensive engine anytime soon. I think he's years away if that's even in his ceiling. Right. So like as far as I'm concerned, now the hawks are in like a completely different phase than they were last summer where they're, they've got to figure out what their top end ball handling is going to be. And they've got to have a plan, whether that's the draft or targeting a specific star. But you're dead on arrival in the NBA. If you don't have a guy who can consistently generate advantages. And even the great defenses in the history of the league that have won championships, they have an advantage creator, somebody that breaks the defense down. And this Atlanta team is

just so far away from that. And I, I don't, I don't see any like quick, easy path get there. we'll see what they end up doing in the next two or three years, but they're going to have to find a primary ball handler. I started rooting for the Lakers recently after the Luca trade, so I wasn't really familiar with Rob Polinka's game or the lack of one. The idea of basically punting the season and very likely letting LeBron and Rui walk for nothing, just to chase a package offering the fourth or fifth best offer for Janus

feels absurd to me, especially with reportedly players like Wiggins and Jared Allen being on the market for attainable prices. Coming into the season, I was really high on the Lakers' future with Austin's Rise in Luca's ceiling. But now I'm honestly not sure any of it matters if Polinka is still the one running the team.

How confident are you that Palinka can actually nail the margin moves needed to build a true Tier 1 contender around Luca and Austin soon? Do you, excuse me, do you see this Capp Space Gambit working out by making us land some game-changing long-term options like Watson? Or do you think the Lakers are headed

towards being a perpetual, top-heavy, low-depth, dark-horse team with as long as Polika is at the helm? So a lot to get into there. First of all, no, I don't believe in Rob Polinka's ability to manage the situation. This Lakers team has always, in my time covering them, been star-focused and badly undervaluing the job that role players do to help you win basketball games. It has been a fundamental flaw with this franchise from the very beginning,

and it's based on a basic misconception about basketball. When you actually look at teams like Oklahoma, city, you think they've won because of Shea. You look at teams like Denver and you think they've won because of Yokic. You look at teams like Golden State and you think they've won because of Steph. And for the record, they have in the sense that you have to have one of those guys, just like Luca. You have to have a Steph. You have to have a Luca. You have to have a Shea. You have to have a Yokich. There's basically no example of a team that wins a championship in recent NBA history without one of those guys. The closest thing is probably the 2024 Celtics.

And that team had five players that would have fetched $30 million on the open market at that point in time. And Tatum was probably still like the best player that wasn't one of those guys. Like he was the best player on the second tier of superstars. And, you know, and they had Jalen Brown and they had Derek White and they had Drew Holliday. And they had Horford and they had Porzengis. That was the closest thing to it. So you do have to have one of those guys in all likelihood to have a chance to win the title. But it's that plus a strong basketball court.

organizationally that churns out high-level role players. Golden State turns out high-level role players. Oklahoma City churns out high-level role players. It's one of those things that is a prerequisite to sustaining any sort of success in the NBA. You have to have a strong culture that values the little things and puts all of that together with a superstar talent. And the Lakers have just always been completely geared up and geared towards the superstar talent. I talked about this a little bit yesterday, but it's easy making a deal for Janus. No one's going to criticize you if it doesn't go right. They'll just be like, oh, it's Janus.

What are you going to do? Pass on Janus. Like the Lakers, if they make a move for Janus, it's the easiest thing that Rob Polinka will do in his time as the Lakers GM, right? What's hard is building the rest of it. That's the hard part. the hard part is going down the roster and finding value on veteran minimums and finding value in the mid-level exception and your pro scouting department finding value in the trade market

where you can flip two salaries that maybe don't fit what you guys like to do very well for a specific salary that fits what you do really well. You have to dig into the scouting side of it and find the guys that have the high motor and have the high level of attention to detail when it comes to defensive schemes and being in the right spot and, and the ability to, you know, guard multiple positions and all these like little things, defensive rebounding, you have to dig into the weeds to build out the rest of a roster. That's, that's hard. And yeah, if you make it, like, if you trade a first round pick for a role player and it doesn't pan out, it does open you up to more criticism.

You know, like no one's getting on the bucks for trading for dame. Like you were trying to put a high level ball handler next to Janus after he lost another first round series because he struggles to create in the half court. So like they're sitting there thinking like we need to get another guy. Dame terrors his Achilles. Yeah, it happens. It's shitty. But like no one's looking at the bucks and being like, oh, they should never have traded for day. Superstar trades are the easiest thing that a front office can do. The trading for role players, it takes a lot more work behind the scenes and there's a lot more opportunity for you to be opened up for criticism. Now, digging into the specifics, we don't know who's going to be available.

this offseason. And so we'll address it when we get there. But the truth of the matter is, there's not a lot of talent available in the free agent market. Like, the only guy in the restricted free agent market that you can imagine the Lakers, you know, targeting as like a high level starter next to Luca and Austin is a Peyton Watson, right? But like, I think you're going to have to come really high to get Denver not to match. Like, I think Denver's going to match up to probably as high as like 30 million. Like I think they're good I think Denver would match and so I think they'd match and I think they'd trade cam Johnson. So like what are you going to do pay like max money for for Peyton Watson? Like I don't I don't I like Peyton. I think he'd be really good in a in the

short term as a role player and I think he's got some potential as a high level offensive player in this league that he's continued to flash throughout the season. But like like do you think paying Peyton Watson, some enormous amount of money is going to be what turns things around. And if it's an afford, I like Peyton Watson in that 20 to 25 million dollar range. And guess what? If you sign Peyton Watson to a 20 to 25 million dollar a year offer sheet, Denver's going to match. And so again, like, cap space is cap space. You could still trade for with cap space. So for instance, like, if the Lakers wanted to make a move, let's just use Herb Jones as an example. And they wanted to absorb Herb Jones's salary. They could do it with caps.

just like they could by sending out expiring contracts. So all of the flexibility is still there this summer. The cap space can be attached to draft picks, or essentially the draft picks can be used to bring the player in and be absorbed into cap space. So like Rob still has a chance. That's why I wasn't critical of Rob for not doing much at this particular deadline.

I don't think this team was worth heavily investing in. I think it made perfect sense to be like, this isn't the year for us to go all in. So let's just do something small, like get a shooter for a team that can't shoot and maintain all of our flexibility and we'll go into this off season and we'll attack this thing and they have picks. Like again, they've got effectively three first round picks depending on when they decide to make their deals. My thing is you better have a plan if you miss out on Janus to move at least one or two of those first round picks

to bring in high level, starting level NBA talent to put around Austin and Luca or you are dead on arrival again next season because this roster is utterly devoid of athleticism and shooting. And when LeBron's gone, you're losing another really high-end talent in that specific case, right? Also, I think if you get a lot of talent, you have a higher chance of actually bringing LeBron back at a discount. But I don't think LeBron's coming back at a discount if you just have a bunch of mediocre dudes that you sign into Cap Space. So, again, got to have a plan.

When we get to this off-season and we actually see what the landscape looks like, we'll kind look and talk about some of the specific guys that might be available. But again, I'm generally of the opinion that Luca plus an elite rim protector and an elite three and D wing and a couple really good role players at the three and four spot is actually nearly as good, if not, if not as good or better as a Luca plus Janus plus a bunch of veteran minimum guys type of payroll. So like I just, I just think that the, the Lakers need to be doing a ton of work behind. the scenes right now to identify the opportunities for high-level role-player talent to surround their stars with. Last question. Did the 76ers give up on Jared McCain too early? Is Sam

Presti wanting a player from your team not enough evidence to not trade that player? So here's the thing. I think this more or less makes sense for both sides in the sense that I like Jared McCain. I like betting on shooting. And I think Jeremy, I think when it comes to shooters like that, I would be a little hesitant to like compare him to some of the higher level shooters in NBA history that have like more size and more ability to hold up defensively and and, uh, that just have more all around talent. Like McCain to me is a shooter, but he's not like a superstar type of shooter. Okay. So like if you look at him as just what would be a really high level role player on your team in the long run, you already have Vijay Edgecombe. You already

have Tyrese Maxie. Queen Grimes has been playing really well. And I think I think I would imagine he's part of their long-term plans. And you have a shorter window because of the Embeddeed age thing. And it's great to see Embed playing fantastic again, by the way. But because of Embed's age and because you're going to have a hard time trading Paul George and he's in the situation for now. And you have Tyree Smaxy who's already reaching close to that superstar level. You're kind of operating in a shorter window. And so to me, a McCain who is kind of in a weird spot in your rotation with the rise of VJ Edgecom. We were like almost single-handedly won the game against the Lakers last night in crunch time, just being a wrecking ball on defense

and hitting shots. Like, if you like Naxie and VJ as your primary back court and Quentin Grimes is a good short-term option for you at guard, turning McCain into a bunch of draft picks that you can then turn around and try to use to upgrade the team down the line, I think is a nice value play for Daryl Morey and I fully support it. I like McCain. I don't think he's the guy that you hang on to irrespective of your surrounding circumstances. All right, guys, it's all I have for today. As always, I sincerely appreciate you guys for supporting us and supporting the show. What a crazy week. That was our eighth episode of the week.

Thanks to our wild and bizarre trade deadline. Again, we'll be back Monday with power rankings, contender rankings with Kevin O'Connor on Wednesday next week. Some fun stuff over the All-Star break as we kind of go big picture. And then we're putting her head down and grinding from the middle of February all the way to the middle of June. It's going to be crazy. But I'm excited. I, this time of year always just, just turns into an absolute grind, but in the most fun way,

because the basketball games get so entertaining. So I'm excited to get into it with you guys. All right, I'll see you on Monday. Hey, guys, it's us. The Jonas Brothers. I'm Joe. I'm Kevin. And I'm Nick.

And guess what? We created our own podcast called, Hey, Jonas. We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to it. We have first people to do podcasts. We get to ask other people questions because we're sick and tired of being asked questions. Well, sick and tired is a strong way to put it, but, you know, tired and sick, tired and sick.

Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL, late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smigel and Friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform?

We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque.

Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Last night, a blown call changed a game.

This morning, the internet lost its mind, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo, and every episode we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the biggest moments in sports and giving you the real story behind the headline. And we're going straight to the source

the athletes themselves. Their locker room stories, their reactions in the moment and the stuff nobody gets to hear. Listen to SportsSlice on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more,

follow Timbo Slicalife-Live 12 in the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed human.