The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Hour 1 - Caitlin Clark is on another level

Episode Date: June 18, 2025

Colin reacts to a wild night in the WNBA where Caitlin Clark was on the receiving end of hard fouls in the Fever’s win over the Sun LeBron James' recent comments on his podcast have people thinking he's being a hypocrite to protect his legacy See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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You know, this industry is football season and waiting for football that Caitlin Clark has become a leading source of content. or we can talk about Aaron Rogers. I am for Caitlin Clark. J. Mack texted me last night. The gift that keeps on giving. I do think the media, the media is prone to do this. You know, the media tends to be very reactionary,

and the fans generally get it more than the media. So I want to start with this, J-MAC. The WNBA has arrived. Caitlin Clark's gotten really good, really fast. It's like the end of year one for Michael Jordan or year three for Michael Jordan. she's gotten really good, really fast. And you got to put a body on her or you got to double teamer.

Or she's going to embarrass you. She's shooting 33 footers. And what happened last night's a byproduct of that? This is what happened to MJ. She's number one and two in every offensive stat. She's hitting more threes this season than Steph Curry did in his first MVP season. And her game embarrasses you. So like men's basketball, J.C. Sheldon had the task of stopping,

stopping the latest superstar in her basketball league. And this thing was chatty in the second quarter. It was chatty. They've got history. It was trash talking. And then in the third quarter, Sheldon poked her in the eye. Again, this is something we see all the time. They were on each other.

They were talking. It was trashy. The superstar like MJ, unstoppable. Poker in the eye, and that's a flagrant foul. And it should have been a fragrant foul. And then Marina Mayberry, this is a. inappropriate, came over, knocked her over. Many thought she should have been thrown out of the game. Well, she didn't get a technical. It's a little bad boys pistons with MJ. For the record,

Caitlin Clark got up. She wasn't hurt. She did more trash docking. She hit more threes. She remained remarkable. Just like all the great, you know, if you respect women, stop pandering. She's tough. She's feisty. She likes to taunt and talk. and nobody quite knows what the hell to do. I mean, when Candace Parker, 10 years ago, Candice Parker, led this sport WNBA and assists with six a game. Caitlin Clark's not only the best guard, the best shooter, hitting 33 footers.

They're flashy and kind of embarrass you. She's averaging nine assists a game. She's changed the entire tempo of the sport. Forget the merchandise. That's another segment. So they don't know what to do, Hackashack. Mike Dunlevy, coach in the blazer. We can't stop him, and we have our Vita Sabonis.

Steph Curry's first couple years in the league, thank God for Draymond Green. And by the way, this league, they knew what they were getting into, right? Like, and I'll get to this in a second, but they brought Sophie Cunningham over in a trade for a reason. She's the youngest black belt in the state of Missouri's history, six years old. They brought her over to protect Caitlin Clark because they saw this puppy coming. The league doesn't quite know what to do, but the fever. did. And so, again, you've got to put a body on her.

You've got to get physical. If you go look at the history of basketball, high school, college, WNBA, NBA, NBA, if there's an offensive player and they're humiliating you, Steph, Shaq, MJ, Caitlin, what do you do? You can't trap her, she'll dribble through it.

You got to put a body on her. You got a double teamer. You try to get in her head with trash talking. It's not working at all. It's the ultimate compliment in my opinion but take a deep breath katelyn bounced up the eye couldn't have been gouge that violently because she could see just fine draining jumpers after do i think it crossed a line yeah that's why we had a flagrant foul and a technical and do i think the officials are trying to

figure out how quite to officiate her yes i was at the blazers laker series in los angeles I know where I was sitting behind the basket when Kobe hit Shaq for the slam dunk. And I looked over at Bob Wittitt at the time the GM of the Blazers and thought, we had our Vita Sabonis were the Blazers. We couldn't stop him. They didn't know how to officiate him. This is what happens when a superstar emerges. And here is the coach of the fever after.

This is what happens, right? This is what happens. You've got competitive women who are the best in the world at what they do, right? And when you allow them to play physical and you allow the, things to happen, they're going to compete and they're going to have their teammates backs. It's exactly what you expect right out of fierce competition. So I started talking to the officials in the first quarter and we knew this was going to happen. They got to get control of it. They got to be better. They got to

be better. Can you specifically detail what you mean by get control of the game just to be in your words. Get control of the game is called the fouls that are actually happening on the floor. Okay so and again let Let's go to the next level on this. So everybody's going to be okay. There was a technical. There was a flagrant. And the officials in the W.A.

are kind of figuring out, how do we officiate this thing? Okay. They've never had a Caitlin Clark. How do we officiate this thing? How do we officiate? How do we officiate Curry when they're coming after him? How do we officiate bad boys tackling? What's legal?

Finally, the NBA stepped in and said no hand checking. No, no, you know, forearm in the back. Like, this stuff is a work in progress. And so the first year, Caitlin Clark was in the WNBA. They were hazing her. They're not hazing her anymore. They're just trying to figure out how they hell to stop her. It's not hazing.

It's, all right, traps, pressure. So the fever saw it coming. They went and got Sophie Cunningham, six-year-old black belt. This is what the Bulls did with Charles Oakley to protect Michael Jordan. And I said this last year several times. The WNBA is not a vertical league. Their players can't jump over each other to score like the NBA. it's a horizontal chippy league.

And you didn't watch the NBA for the last 10 to 12 years. It has always been physical and always been chippy. You get into a lot of collisions because there's no John Morant here. There's no Aunt Edwards. They don't jump over. It's a horizontal physical league. And Caitlin Clark now is like kerosene to the physicality flame. So you have physicality in this league.

And now you get this flashy player and they don't know how to officiate her. They don't know how to defend her. But I would say when I hear this, Colin, Colin, Colin, Colin, the WNBA, Colin has got to do something. Yes, they do. Understand this is the arc of a new superstar in your league. It'll start with hazing. It'll go to physicality.

It'll go to flagrins. It may go to technicals. You'll eventually have to get a Sophie Cunningham or a Charles Oakley. I mean, Wayne Gretzky did this for years. They figured it out in hockey. How do you stop Gretzky? Oh, we can't. How do you stop MJ?

We can't. How do you stop Caitlin Clark? You guys understand this is the worst she'll ever be. She's getting better, and they can't stop her. But I also want you to watch this, because I've always said this. The media may overreact to stuff. The fans in American public usually doesn't. Watch the retaliation later by Sophie Cunningham.

And again, this is inappropriate, right? No, it's what happens. basketball. But I want you to watch, as this scrum's going on, watch the fans behind Sophie Cunningham. Watch them. They're smiling. They're engaged. They're happy. They're not horrified. The Indiana fans understand what they're seeing. It's part of the process. They went, those people in Indiana, they've gone to the Nick Games and Spike Lee and Reggie Miller. They watched the heat. Look at Look at the fans. They're grabbing their phones.

They're taking pictures. I'm thinking the whole night, did Nick Kahn take over the WNBA? We got a little W-W-E going on here. And the fans get it. The media, in my opinion, the media does a disservice, sports media, political media, by overreacting to everything. And the Indiana fans are like, this is fun. This is real.

the WNBA now, you go to those games. There are nights. The fever out drew the Pacers. Pacers ran the finals. So the fans here are not freaking out. They're booing. Honest to God, it feels like a little, you know, sports isn't terrible if it's got a little WWE.

And basketball, like international soccer, has always been personality and star-driven. And when new stars emerge, I can remember Christian Pulisic, his first World Cup, and some of the, quote, friendlies. They were tackling him. And there a bit of American can do that. He'd play Mexico. Maybe Canada.

What do you do when a star emerges? You can't stop them. Their game is flashy. It goes from hazing to physicality to flagrance to ejections. It's part of it. The only good thing about getting old, and I'm not that old, but I'm kind of old, is you've seen all this stuff before. I've seen this like eight times.

I saw it in hockey with Gretzky. So listen, if you watch Gordon Ramsey, the greatest chef in the world, right, or one of them, it gets toxic in that kitchen. John Taffer in Barr Rescue, it gets toxic. Change, people don't like change, but intensity and heat create steel. This will only make Caitlin Clark a better player. it will only make the fever more championship ready. And the Indiana fans, good for you.

You're going to have the great watch of the next 15 years because they're never trading her. She's the Steph Curry. They're never trading her. She starts here, college here, or near here. And by the way, that whole scrum and that retaliation and the delays in the game that everybody's freaking out over. Caitlin Clark's like, can we get back to playing?

Honestly, the review took too long for me. I wanted to get playing basketball again. And that's exactly what I did at the rest of the third quarter. I made all three free throws. And then I, you know, it was a tough three. I was excited about a three. And, you know, honestly, I got to give our crowd a lot of credit too. I thought they were tremendous.

You know, they're cheering for us. They had our back. And I'm a passionate player. But at the end of the day, like, I'm here to play basketball. And that's what it is. And my game's going to talk. And that's all that really matters. And I love this game, and I'm going to give it everything I have.

I think that's what competitors do. You just step right back up to the challenge. That's what competitors do. That's what they do. Let's not pander. Let's not protect. Let's understand the WNBA. I have been to a couple WNBA games.

The league wasn't nearly as good or watchable 15 years ago. People could lead the league in assists with five or six. Now you've got multiple players at nine and ten. people are shooting 33 footers. Watch a WNBA game. Go watch the highlights on YouTube at this game. Look at the passing. Look at the physicality.

Look at the shooting. This league is growing in front of our eyes. Now, Caitlin Clark is obviously the jet fuel. Half the audience goes when she's not there. But that's okay. It took Connor McGregor to the UFC and John Jones. Sometimes in emerging leagues, it takes a superstar. and now, you know, America is all into UFC.

But it does take sometimes these special athletes. And it can be getting really, really bumpy. But if you really respect all these amazing women's athletes, then take a deep breath. Nobody got hurt. J-MAC, that was so fun. By the way, if you do go to the YouTube W&W. WNB highlights. They edit out the fighting part.

Well, of course they do. So you have to go get that separately. But the point is, you're old enough to know. I mean, those Knicks teams with Pat Riley, those were tackling exercises for years. There's videos of Kurt Rambus being slammed to the floor. Right. This stuff was, and I think fans know this. You know, when Sophie Cunningham comes down and tackles the girl, it's like, hey, I'm protecting my star and my take was, this is the process.

We want to make, we're going to let you know at the end of the game. You're not getting out of this arena without us retaliating. That is a message to every other WNBA team. You're going for a driving layup. You treat our player like that. This is how we're going to treat yours. That may get a technical, but that was a message, and that's okay. So the Lakers, Kurt Rambas stuff in the 80s, the teams didn't like each other.

They were rivals. This Colin is different. This is many players around the league not liking Caitlin Clark, or they're jealous of her success. You know, I know people tried to make this a racial thing. Well, what happened last night was not racial? That's just hate and just they just don't like Caitlin Clark. They don't like the attention she's getting.

I mean, the eye poke was so blatant. And the announcer, as soon as Caitlin Clark got knocked over, was like, oh, she's going to get ejected. They didn't eject the girl. Can you believe that? I say this. I wouldn't have been bothered if she was ejected. I'm not bothered that she wasn't. It's obviously a cheap shot.

Yeah. a cheap shot. Caitlin Clark, by the way, got right back up. You know, still. I just, I think in the reality of this is, yes, obviously that's a cheap shot. Yeah, but what do you think the league wants, Colin? Caitlin Clark's splashing 30-foot three-pointers or three scrums in the sun fever game. They don't want this. This doesn't look great. I think the, I think everybody's figuring out this jigsaw puzzle. And it's, it just takes a while. When Michael Jordan came in, I mean, you're, you're watching. this stuff and David Stern saying, oh my God, this guy's making our league global.

He's selling more shoes than any player in the history of the world. And David Stern's like, we have to protect him. But yet the Pistons tackled him for years. And David Stern, the late David Stern, step back, let it play out, didn't protect Michael, knew eventually. They changed some officiating. Michael, by the way, in year two got hurt, broke his foot. So we had year one and year three.

So again, we all want immediate. Sports can be very similar to politics. We all want answers today, and everything's a process. We prepare for our show. It's a process. 90% of sports has practiced not games, right? We only see the games. You didn't see Michael Jordan punch Steve Kerr.

We did see Draymond Punch Pool because we have phones now. But there's a lot of stuff that happens among teams. Teams fight amongst themselves in camp. We don't see most of that, so we're so shocked when we see that bump. I got news for you. You can find scrums in the WNBA 10 years ago. They don't jump over each other. That's not what this league is.

They bang into each other. By the way, everybody's going to see this Caleb Clarkson. Oh, when's the next game? Guess where their game is televised on Thursday? Amazon Prime. Almost the Patrick Mahomes Chiefs, Travis Kelsey, Taylor Swift Effect. at K-L o'clock on Amazon Prime on Thursday. So exciting.

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So you may think I'm embellishing when I say there's a lot of similarities between Michael Jordan and Caitlin Clark. But think about this. So both were very popular in college. Caitlin got to national championships, didn't win it, but was sensational. Michael won a title. His last two years in college, he didn't, but was sensational. Both had flashy games that were different. Before Michael got to the Bulls, they were awful.

27 and 55. First year in, he improved him by 11 games. They made the playoffs. They still weren't great, but he got him into the playoffs. Pre-Katlin Clark, fever awful. After her first year, got him into the playoffs. Still weren't a great team. By the end of year one, though, for Michael,

we were thinking, is this guy a top three player in the league? By the end of last year, outside of Asia Wilson, we're thinking, is Caitlin a top three player in the league? By year three, Michael got hurt in year two. Year three, Michael, MVP. Year two for Caitlin. Hopefully she doesn't get hurt. Will she be an MVP? She's our second right now in odds.

These are very similar players. Both sold a ton of merchandise. We fell in love with them and knew him. Michael's at North Carolina winning a title, taking the shot facing Georgetown. everybody didn't even go number one, but everybody's like, who is this guy? Bobby Knight at the time said, most talented guy I've ever seen in the basketball court, ever. Caitlin Clark, merch, popularity, bad team, gets him into the playoffs, and by the second full year of playing, are they the best player in the league?

They are the MVP of the league. I mean, she is the MVP. She may not win the award. She's the MVP of the league. and in both instances, both staffs, coaching staffs and organizations understood that they had to protect their players. The Bulls went out and got Charles Oakley, the intimidator, the enforcer, to protect Michael. Because they started seeing how people were defending him and fouling him. Caitlin Clark, they go and get the fever, Sophie Cunningham.

As I said earlier, six years old had a black belt. youngest black belt to this day ever granted in the state of Missouri. She's an intimidator. You saw it last night. The fever like the Bulls, the Bulls knew what they had. They had to protect their asset. And in both instances, the early Bulls coaches complained about how their star Michael Jordan was being treated. And the coach of the fever, Stephanie White, saying the same thing is, hey guys, catch up.

to the players. The game has changed so much. Players are faster. They're better. They're bigger. They're stronger. You know, they're as good as they've ever been. They're as athletic as they've ever been.

The game is fast now. Things are happening quickly. Everybody's getting better, except the officials. So we've got to find a way to remedy it. Listen, Stan Albrook, Doug Collins, Phil Jackson, were constantly lamenting how Michael was officiated.

And again, I'm not defending the Connecticut son, but when you can't stop somebody, traps don't work, doubles don't work. Connecticut's like, all right, let's get the physicality route. And by the way, nobody ever stopped Shaq, really, or Michael, or Bird, or Magic, or Kobe, or Duncan, or Caitlin Clark, or Candace Parker, or Serena William. The greats just endure. The greats get theirs. But you got to figure out a way to slow them down.

I mean, the Pacers tried with SGA. It worked a little bit. And now it doesn't because he's going to get his. So what a night. How much fun. Jay Mack with the news. No, no, no, no, no. Turn on the news.

This is the herd line news. You know, I don't have any data to back this up, but you've had this show for, what, 20 years, the herd? There's no way you've ever opened with 20 minutes. a straight WNDA, ever. That just shows the Caitlin Clark effect. Unbelievable. I don't have research to back that up, but I'm going to go with your right. All right.

Let's go back to a tried and true fellow on the show. And that's Aaron Rogers, Colin. I mean, hey, when in doubt, Aaron Rogers, let's talk about him. Interestingly, a new report emerged that Pittsburgh came to the conclusion that George Pickens and Aaron Rogers would not get along well. Obviously, Pickens, very immature, had issues in college. and that's why they traded him before Aaron Rogers even came on board. Now, I'm not saying this is the level of the Jets placating Rogers.

Hey, what would you like? Offensive coordinator, wide receiver, whatever you want, we'll give it to you. But this is starting to show, hey, Aaron, we're going to do what it takes to get you on board. I don't love it, but let's see if they draw the line at trading pickets. One of the ways I've always defended Aaron Rogers is Tom Brady had no interest with immature wide receivers. Go get me Welker, who's in the league. Edelman took years to develop. Get me

Randy Moss. And Randy Moss, by the way, was no trouble first couple of years in New England. And he was like Rain Man knowing offense. Right, Belichick and Brady both talk about that. I'm going to defend Aaron Rogers. Older quarterbacks don't want to

babysit wide receivers. Dak Prescott came in. I defended it. I think privately said, listen, Des is a He's screaming at me on the sidelines, and Des was a touchdown maker. But, Dak, I'm not a babysitter. Brady, I'm not a babysitter. Aaron Rogers, I'm going to back him 100% here.

He doesn't have time to schedule a bad time, as Jerry Jones would say. He doesn't have time for George Pickens to mature. Let's go get D.K. Metcalfe. Who, by the way, low maintenance, but he's an adult. He's been in the league. So I support the Steelers here. I support Aaron Rogers here. Aaron's going to play one more year.

You don't want to spend nine games having to cool this guy off after he doesn't throw it to him on a post route. So Colin, you just brought up an interesting point. So Aaron Rogers, I don't have time. Do you think Aaron Rogers in his head thinks, hey man, I can win a Super Bowl or I can compete for a Super Bowl with Pittsburgh this year? Do you think he believes that in his head? I'm never going to try to get into Aaron's here.

I think all athletes have supreme confidence and generally have higher regards for their Super Bowl chances than reality. I think everybody in September, the Atlanta Falcons during camp, that coaching staff is going to be telling him. You guys can win it all. No, no, that's different. I'm talking about Rogers specifically. He could have walked away from football. Nobody would have blamed it. I think Aaron looks at this.

Aaron looks at it and thinks this is easily the best defense I've ever had. easily, D.K. Metcalfe's arguably the most talented receiver I've had. We got a high-end, tight end. We drafted the offense. I mean, Frazier's one of the top three centers in the league now from West Virginia. So I think Aaron looks at it and goes, hey, this is going to be like the Jets without the chaos. And at the end of the year, the Jets were pretty interesting when they didn't have as much chaos. So I think Aaron's talked himself into, we can be real disruptors here. And they may be. They could be. I think the word you're looking for is delulu delusional.

Anyways, let's move on to the Cleveland Browns, Colin, because obviously Shadur Sanders, he's the other gift that keeps on giving this summer. Apparently, there's a report out that Shadur has been outstanding in the building. Despite all those pre-draft concerns, further reports indicate that the future Hall of Fame quarterback Shadur Sanders hasn't worked with any first-team offense in practices attended by the media, but that he has made the most of his reps with the reserves

and has elevated players in his time under center. I'll let you take this, the big fella. Yeah, I think he'll be fine. I would say, Chador's a little sillier than I'd love. His personality, it's a little silly sometimes. That's not my cup of tea. I like serious people, serious quarterbacks. I like Jalen.

I've told you before. Jalen Hertz is the perfect personality to be a quarterback. I swear to God, he's got a briefcase. He's an accountant. You'd think he owns the team. I like that stoicism for quarterback. I don't want highly emotional. Sometimes I think,

Schinders a little silly sometimes. It shows his age, but I think he's going to be fine. I don't think he's disrupted. There's a big difference between being disruptive. Johnny Mansell was disruptive. Sometimes Cam could be a little over the top and just being a little silly.

I think he needs to grow up a little bit. I thought the legendary draft room. It's like, bro, have some self-awareness. This is not a good look. You come from wealth. Nobody wants to see this, but I don't think he's a disruptive force. I don't think it Colorado. I don't think anything.

This points ultimately the finger more at Dion is the reason that should do or dropped, because Dion kept saying stuff, as opposed to anything should do or do, right? It's kind of unfair, but maybe he'll make the most of it. Final story, Collins, to the NBA, where the Pacers are going to try to force a game seven by winning tomorrow night. It's so weird that this series has extra days off all over the place. We're still waiting on word from Tyrese Halliburton's MRI on his calf strain. Rick Carlisle says he'll be a game time decision.

Miles Turner says the series is far from over. He did. He did say that. I'm curious, do you think it's far from over? No, I think once Halliburton got hurt, it's done. Yeah, I think that's fine. What are they a six? But what is the line, by the way?

It's six and a half right now. Yeah, I think Oklahoma City is probably the bet tonight at six and a half. I think Indiana is going to give you a great home punch. I think they're going to play their butt off. Carlisle is a great coach. But there are limitations to what they can do. I mean, you've got to play McConnell a ton in this game because he's their best ball handler, arguably.

I mean, Turner and you can see Oklahoma City's defense without Halliburton on the floor is, it feels like it's another level of disruptive. We kept saying in the first part of the series, the first four games, Indiana's getting their looks. Have you noticed at the end last game and the end of the previous game when Halliburton's not 100%? It's totally disruptive. If you didn't have Magic Johnson, nothing against Byron Scott, Michael Cooper.

If you were pressing the Lakers, magic made it okay. You couldn't press the Lakers too much because of magic. He would burn you. Halliburton burns you. You take him out. OK-seat coaches. more aggressively. It's like a quarterback that doesn't read the blitz. Brady, Brady, you can't blitz. Mahomes, you can't blitz.

Rookie quarterbacks, you blitz more because they can't handle it. So you think, let's say Halliburton's out, you think the move is to start McConnell? I think he is able to ensure a certain tempo. I think there's, he will not turn the ball over. he is probably as good a ball handler as they have off Halliburton. Because just think what OKC is thinking. They're looking at that last game, and they're thinking, and they're thinking, we totally took the Pacers out of their game.

When Halliburton wasn't on the floor. Well, Halliburton's not going to be on the floor. You're going to go right back to that. OKC is going to be hyper-aggressive. Let's seize the moment. It's like we're a boxer. And all of a sudden, there's a. Flurry and the guys on the ropes, you get hyper aggressive to finish it.

Oklahoma City wants to finish this final in the first quarter. They want to take the crowd out of it. They want to take, I mean, because that crowd there is something else. So that's the thing. The OKC's game plan, let's eight minutes into the game, we want the crowd to be out of it. A non-factor. So McConnell is like the fan favorite. He checks into the game and gets like a standing ovation.

I would bring him off the bench. I would start Ben Matherer, Colin. I know it's a little off the board. I think Nemhart can handle point guard bringing the ball up duties. And you need a scorer because without Halliburton scoring, they're falling behind by 20. I think Matherin could start, give you 20, and then you still get the McConnell pop off the bench. And I would much prefer McConnell facing backups than facing those starters. Like, I don't want to see Lou Dort on T.J. McConnell.

I like McConnell. That ain't going to be pretty. Yeah, I think it's a competitive game, though. I think Indiana is too prideful, too well coached, too many good leverage. to pull but I think no Halliburton against that defense is trouble that that's that is trouble J-Mac with the news well that's the news and thanks for stopping by the herd line news I don't if you went back to every in my entire career of talking about LeBron James and let's say there have been I mean a thousand segments I think I've been positive on

900, maybe 975. But he did something the other day, and I think my job, your job, if you do this for a living, we got to call people out, and I got to call LeBron out for something. And I don't do it very much. I called him out a lot his first year in L.A. When he seemed to be more fascinated with business lunches and business deals than basketball, that's probably the hardest I ever was. And he doesn't care either way.

but he did something recently and it's like, time out, time out. You're projecting. Time out. I'll get to that in a second. Be sure to catch live editions of the herd weekdays in noon Eastern, 9 a.m. Pacific. Hey, it's us, the Jonas brothers. And guess what? We have some big news.

What's the news, new? Huge news. We created our own podcast called, Hey, Jonas. We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to our first people to do podcasts. Pretty, yeah, pretty wide range of podcasts throughout there. but this one's extra special.

So how do we actually come up with a name Hey Jonas, guys? I honestly don't remember. I think it was on a call about what we should call it. Well, we were thinking I'm originally calling it one of the early names of our band before Jonas Brothers. This is how you guys remember it going down?

Yes. I have a very different memory of this. We were talking about a thing, a bit for the podcast where people could call in and say, hey Jonas. And then I wrote down on my little notepad Hey Jonas and offered it up as a potential title for the podcast. But thanks for remembering that, guys.

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This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise. breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves, their locker room stories, their reactions,

the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context, and ask the questions everybody wants answered. Sports slice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to Sports Slice. radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slico Slice Life 12 in the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Jacob Kingston grew up in an isolated polygamous

sect. We were God's chosen kingdom on earth. He felt destined for greatness. So when a swaggering Armenian businessman catapults Jacob into an extraordinary world, he doesn't look back. Ferraris and Lamborghinis, private jets, meeting the president of Turkey. I'm Michelle McPhee, and this is one of the most shocking criminal conspiracies I've ever come across. When Jacob met Levin this went to a billion dollar fraud. But with two kings from entirely different worlds, just how long can their empire survive? The largest tax investigation in American history. You need to tell me what you know.

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You know what, I know it's June, J. Mack, we're getting good sports. There's a lot to talk about. So I think I'm overwhelmingly positive with LeBron. I think most of the greats of all time, very positive with. But there are times where he kind of plays the victim. I think he spends too much time on his phone sometimes. But here's a prime example. So he has a podcast called Mind the Game with Steve Nash now. It used to be with JJ Reddick.

And he said something. And it's just projecting. And so let's go to the clip. I don't know why I was discussed so much in our sport and why it's the A-L-B-all of everything. Like, okay, you weren't a great player. You never won a championship. It's like, you sit here and tell me, you know,

Alan Iverson and Charles Barkley and Steve Nash, you know, our fucking wasn't unbelievable. Like, oh, they can't be. talked about or discussed with these guys is because this guy won one ring or one two rings or one like it's just weird to me okay nobody says

Charles Barkley's not amazing nobody says Alan Iverson's not amazing nobody says Dan Marino's not amazing but Barclay is an MJ and Marino's not Brady even though he was more talented and the reason is the trophies

and LeBron knows that LeBron has no chance to win a trophy with the current Laker roster, so now they don't matter. He spent his entire career pursuing titles. You think he went to Miami to land the beach? He went there for Riley and Spolstra and a better owner and a better roster. He didn't go west. He stayed in the week east to keep getting to finals. LeBron pursued finals and Michael six for six for years.

He's talked about idolizing Michael. What's the stat? What stat do we talk about with Michael? If I said to you, how many total points did Michael score? You don't know. How many division titles did Michael win? You don't know. How are you doing the finals?

Six for six. That's his number. Right? That's his number. And he's been doing this for years, playing this angle. It's projecting it's straw man arguments. And I love LeBron. I really do.

I like the people around LeBron. But let's go back to years ago. So LeBron's saying the rings are overrated. No, they're not. And nobody's saying you have to have them to be great. To be the all-time great, you got to have them. So here's LeBron with another guy like Rich Paul on more than an athlete podcast. This was after he had won that ring, the only one in Cleveland.

That one right there made me the greatest player of all the time. for so many reasons i was super super ecstatic the win one for cleveland because of the 52 year drought like i was ecstatic like obviously i showed that the first wave of emotion was when you all everyone saw me crying like that was all for 52 years everything the sports are going on to cleveland and then after i stopped i was like that one right there made you the greatest player of all time well wait why would that be i mean it was just another game right it was just another win i mean why would that take you from great to the greatest player of all time? Oh, the ring.

So back when he was, he knew he had a chance to win several more, the ring mattered. Because he was still back then, hey, can he surpass Michael and get the 6, 7, 8? Now he can't, now rings don't matter. Rings absolutely are the difference. Dan Marino was bigger, stronger, and more talented than Brady. Brady got the trophies. That's the difference. Farr was more athletically talented than Brady.

Brady got the trophies. Aaron's probably more gifted. Josh Allen is. Brady's got the trophies. Nobody's saying that Marino or Josh Allen aren't talented. I think Josh Allen's the most talented football player in the world. But Mahomes has the trophies. And we can contextualize it why they matter.

I'm not a huge Brock Purdy fan, but if he had two trophies, I'd have to acknowledge. He's a different player. He's just better than I think. So it does matter. And LeBron knows it matters. He himself is saying, yeah, when I won that final, that took me from best player in the league, maybe greatest of all time to greatest of all time, just that ring. So let's not create straw man arguments.

We all know the greatest quarterbacks of all time, and a couple of them have no Super Bowls or won. Right, right. But you talk the all-time greatest. It's Peyton and it's Brady and it's Montana. Montana was a third-round pick, third or fourth. He wasn't the most talented guy. Some of it was Bill Walsh and Jerry Rice. It doesn't matter.

You get him. I mean, Eli Manning was never a good regular season quarterback. He's going to get into the Hall of Fame because he beat Brady and Belichick twice in Super Bowls and made two of the most iconic throws. Otherwise, how many Pro Bowls? How many great regular C? the difference between Philip Rivers, a really good regular season quarterback, and Eli Manning not so hot but two rings, is the trophies.

So it obviously matters. I got so many, I want to go back, because I got some Dodgers Padre. That series is, that series, that Dodger Padre series, it is not. I'm going to talk about it top of the hour. And also, Lamar Jackson wants to get more money, which I'm not bothered by. But Jay Mack, let's, I want to talk about, I want to go. back for a couple minutes to Caitlin Clark. And so one of the things that I think makes America really special, the Dodgers recently had a national anthem singer, decide, you know, during

the ice raids, I'm going to do my version of it. Not our, the American version of it. And it was dissent on display. And whether you agree with that or not, It's allowed. The next day she woke up and it's fine and she's not being placed in a prison or worse. What makes America great is the discomfort that is allowed and the dissension and the protests. Saturday, my daughter and I were in downtown Chicago. There was a Palestinian rally. There was a no king rally.

I mean, it was organized. It was four hours, a little bit disruptive to traffic downtown. not walker workflow, but a little disruptive. But the great thing about this country is dissent is not only possible, it's often encouraged. And in sports, we don't have that level of dissent, right? The leagues control stuff. But we do see things in real time. And often one of the truest observations of this or illustrations of this is when you get a star into a league

and the employee slash the athletes don't like that. how they're treated and don't like how they're changing the direction of the league so michael jordan made the nba global uh uh uh and and gretzky won eight straight mbps and what happens by the way mohammed ali my dad didn't like him you like fraser i was ali katelyn clark is essential the kately clarks the michael jordan's uh the christian pulisic saying i'm not going to go and play it is is essential to American sports, these disruptive figures who just don't owe us either tow the company line for the GM, it drives us crazy, dissent drives us crazy, but Caitlin Clark is basically saying, yeah, I'm going to score, I'm going to change the tempo, I'm going to do

a little trash talking, I'm going to have my tongue out, and here come the rivals, here comes retaliation, and this is essential for the growth of this league. It's weird. I mean, I kind of agree with that, but Colin, I don't think it's anything Caitlin Clark's doing that has everybody jealous and angry about her in the league. I think it's that the league says, we've been playing basketball. This league's been around for 20 years. We've been here forever. Why is the media? Why are you guys only now showing up with microphones in our face because of Caitlin Clark? I think a lot of this is media-driven. Like, players are angry seeing Caitlin Clark highlights all over social media. You know what you never had, a Moses Malone fan club? Why? Because he scored on layups under the basket.

Stylistically, Moses Malone was a dominant player. But he wasn't a polarizing player. He didn't create animosity. Do you remember Stylistically? Currie got attention. Michael got attention. Magic got attention. Caitlin's getting attention.

The style does matter. It's not just point. Moses, Carl Malone. Boring. Moses Malone, great but boring. They didn't create that kind of uproar. When your style is flashy and can humiliate other players, that's when it gets personal,

that's when you send the bullies after them to send a message. And I do think Caitlin's style is it rubs people sometimes the wrong way. I love it. You love it. Hey, guys, it's us and the Jonas Brothers. I'm Joe. I'm Kevin. And I'm Nick. And guess what? We created our own podcast called Hey Jonas.

We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to it. We get to ask other people to do podcasts. We get to ask other people questions because we're sick and tired of being asked questions. Well, sick and tired is a strong way to put it, but, you know. Tired and sick. Tired and sick.

Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert. Myrtle and Friends, me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, S&L's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band

with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Winning on Clay is an art. The rallies are relentless.

and at the French Open, only the toughest survive. I'd know. I competed there for decades. Join me, Renee Stubbs, on the Renee Stubbs' tennis podcast for no-nonsense breakdowns of the biggest matches, the toughest players, and the moments that define Roland Garros. She's an outsider to win the French name. And she likes Clay.

Listen, Lerabachina is arguably the best player in the world right now, and I actually can win on any surface. Listen to the Renee Stubbs Tennis Podcasts on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHeart Women's Sports. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque.

Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the IHart Radio app. Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast.

Guaranteed human.