The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Hour 1 - Caleb Williams continues to struggle

Episode Date: July 25, 2025

Colin reacts to training camp reports about Bears quarterback Caleb Williams struggling to learn the new offense under new head coach Ben Johnson and why you can’t ignore the early warning signs The differences between Michael Jordan’s career and LeBron James’s and why it’s no surprise MJ is still beloved while LeBron is still polarizingSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Here we go. It is a Friday. Oh, and there's already news breaking. My kind of news. All right. Former Bears coach Dave Wantsstad joins us in an hour. It is another bumpy day, J-MAC for Caleb Williams. So we know in OTAs, Ben Johnson got, you know, a little miffed,

Couldn't get the play into the huddle. We're asking them to do some different stuff, sometimes under center. A lot of those coaches like that. Sean Payton likes that. So are you ready for the new news, Jay Mack? Lay it on me, big guy. Okay, so yesterday, three days ago, he struggled. Ben Johnson was furious.

Couldn't get the play in and out. Yesterday struggled with a deep ball. Today, Caleb Williams, two red zone picks. One tip ball, another one horrible pass. So three days in a row, it's gotten a little bumpy for Caleb Williams. So people say, I hear athletes say this. I hear people say that you can't take a lot from camp. You can see red flags, positive, negative.

Andrew Luck, Jaden Daniels, first week of camp, commanders Colts. You were hearing glowing reports. Disasterous first dates rarely become great. 30-year marriages. I've interviewed lots of people in my life. Disasterous interviews never become great higher. It matters. Sean Payton last year

was texting me in August. He's like Bo Nix that may take a few starts. Guy's going to be good. By October, Bo Nix 103 pass-er rating. You can see good. It can be one of those musical shows. It can be an athlete. It can be an interview. It could be a first date.

you can see stuff. Or do they say men decide in eight seconds, women decide in eight minutes if they want to spend any time with this person. So Caleb Williams was sold as a generational talent. We were all hoping it would be this generation. Right? Like how long do you want us to ask last? And wait.

So remember this. Ben Johnson, Ben Johnson's first year with Jared Goff. Let's go back to that. Remember that Lions team, 2022 was not the roster it is now. The old line wasn't quite set.

Jared Goff, first year with Ben Johnson, now the Bears coach. Led the NFL, 29 touchdown, seven picks, seventh and pass a rating, sixth in passing yards. And again, that Lions team isn't the one now.

That's three off seasons ago. The Lions team now, I don't think is as good offensively as the Bears team right now with their personnel. So I feel this. Quarterbacks in 2025 are a little bit like streaming shows. Bro, if you're not getting me by the second episode early, I'm out.

Used to be three years. Give Eli Manning three years. Those days are over. Private coaching, seven-on-seven camps. You can transfer in high school and college to a better place. Those days are over. He's got to be good by late September and early October. And that streaming show, you know it and I know it.

By the second episode, if you're 8, 10 minutes in and you're like, the writing's bad, it doesn't work, you're on to another streaming show or another service. And so I think you got to grab people early in this relationship. So Ben Johnson yesterday said it's not as bad as it was reported, but today, seven-on-seven drills, red zone, two picks, not good. Here's Ben Johnson. I know some people enjoyed me throwing the first team out of practice. Not the case. We got to end up executing, getting in and out of the huddle a certain way, and it wasn't that way. We're learning, we're growing.

You know, there are some things from the springtime expected to carry over that that was probably one. We just don't have any tolerance for anymore. We got too far to go. Yeah, I mean, this is year two. generational talent, hopefully this one, OTAs, three days at camp, every day at something else. I like him a lot. But the critics make good points, hero ball, runs backwards. A lot of this NFL quarterback stuff is work ethic and getting in and out of plays and not making big airs.

You know, I say this all the time about Mahomes, about three times a game, jaw dropping. 27 dropbacks, he's just hitting the drag routes. So Caleb right now struggling with the layup stuff, the easy stuff. Don't throw picks on the red zone. Dirt it. You know what they say? Red zone, you got to throw it low or out of the end zone, right? So today, two picks, not great.

So yesterday I did a rant, and it got a lot of – it was a couple days ago, and it got a lot of play. and I my rant was anytime you talk Michael and LeBron James and LeBron's been in the news because he hasn't made contact with New Laker Market Smart, guys on vacation, put your phone down. When I go on vacation, I'll run into people who's filling in for you. I have no idea. It's not my company. I put my phone down. I move on.

I'm going to defend LeBron on that. We should all put our phone downs and disappear when we go on vacation and be with our kids and our families and our wives and our in-laws or whatever. So I had this rant that LeBron will never be a little bit. as beloved as Michael because we went through the Michael journey with him. We saw the Pistons beat him up, and he had multiple coaches, and we saw the Celtics beat him up, and we lived through his journey. He was a college basketball player at Carolina, the great shot against Georgetown. So sports makes you feel something, and Michael makes us feel something.

And LeBron has been, you know, I called him in my rant, the ultimate basketball opportunist, and it was seen as a shot at LeBron, and I want to add clarity. It's not. I would have left Cleveland the first time, too. Seven years couldn't get him an All-Star. You don't owe your first team that drafts you your entire career. College kids now transfer two or three times. But if I was LeBron, I would have stayed in Miami because of Eric Spolstra,

Mickey Eris and the owner, and Pat Riley. No state tax. It's a winter league, warm weather, and the Miami heat are always in contention for great free agents. I would have stayed there. Now, people say, well, LeBron, his heart was in Cleveland. No, it wasn't. He left it a second time. He understood going to Cleveland was good for his brand.

He didn't like being a villain. He acknowledged that later. The Sports Illustrated letter. And I'm not banging on people who leave Cleveland. Our staff put up a list today of people that have left Cleveland. It's a lot of Drew Carey and George Steinbrenner and Steve Harvey and Paul Newman and the Kelsey's and Drew Carey and Logan Paul and LeBron. James, a lot of people leave Cleveland. There's just, you know, there's New York, there's Chicago

in the Midwest, there's L.A., there's London, there's Cleveland's not a place you have to stay or that is always great for commerce. It's a great place to be born and from. Sometimes it's not a great place in your prime to be living, right, for your career. So I'm not banging on that, but don't tell me that LeBron, Cleveland's where his heart is. He's not going to retire in Akron, and he left it twice. And the reason he left it, it was time. He wanted to go to L.A. It was good for his brand. And he could play with bigger stars because bigger stars like Luke and AD liked the brand, uh, playing Los Angeles. And so I go back to this is that the downside, and I speak from experience to bouncing around the country in your career. You know, if anybody's

followed me, Vegas, Tampa, Portland, Fox, ESPN. The downside of that is that that, that, that You know, you never live in that cul-de-sac where your kids grow up and they have lifelong friends. I have to live with that. The upside to moving around a lot, and LeBron has seen this, he's overall played with better teammates. Michael's best teammate, he's got one great one, Scotty Pippen. LeBron's got D. Wade and Kyrie Irving and Chris Bosch and A.D., and LeBron's played with more great players. LeBron's been to more finals. LeBron's had fewer long droughts or battles within an organization.

He bails for commerce, and that's okay. But my whole point was, for athletes, we love the perseverance. There is a beauty in the struggle. They make 30 for 30s on the struggle. They're almost all about somebody overcoming, turbulence, chaos, fighting, and winning. that's where they make 30 for 30s from. And sports is romanticized, and we've always thought of Michael as part of our sports love story. LeBron has simply been transactional.

That's the downside to being the best basketball opportunist ever. You played with better teammates. You made more finals. You made a lot more money, by the way, as a player. but it's hard to fall in love with that. You fall in love with the people in your cul-de-sac. Same high school, same people you grew up with, Thanksgiving. Next door neighbor may just pop into the house with a gift.

You don't get that with LeBron, and you got it with Michael. And that's really the difference. Okay. So I know you're thinking I'm obsessing about this Caleb Williams stuff, but Jaden Daniels hit, Bo Nicks hit, I'm going to be all over J.J. McCarthy. I think Drake May's hit. I think the J.J. McCarthy, Caleb Williams stories, if these guys hit and Pettix hits, it's a six-for-six draft with quarterbacks in the first round, never happened.

And I do think struggling, it's red zone one day, deep balls next day, can't get into a play the next day. It matters. What athletes say, well, you can't take everything or anything for. from camp. You can take some stuff. I remember last year, Jay Mack, Jaden Daniels. I said this five times on the air. I'm like, generally coaches kind of keep quiet to lower expectations on rookies.

And we said this four or five times. Dan Quinn and Kingsbury kept coming out publicly and going, this is unbelievable. And this was after like three practices. You can watch those musical shows, the voice for American Idol years ago. You can see great. very quickly. Now, it may be hard to tell good to very good or bad to disaster, but you can see

awful and you can see great very quickly. And I don't think it takes long on a date or a job interview or for a young quarterback to see trouble. Sean Payton was texting me last year in camp and he was like, kid's going to be good, said, give him a few starts. You know, he's got to get up to the speed. You know, nobody, starters don't plan preseason. Can't take a ton for season, but he was saying the kids got it. He's going to be good soon. And by October, Bo Nix was a really good quarterback. Yeah, well, it's a perfect, seamless move from what Drew Brees looked like in the pocket to Bo Nix. Very similar. You know, I look at Jared Goff and then I look at Caleb Williams. Those are two polar opposite quarterbacks.

And I just wonder, I'm starting to wonder, and again, I probably shouldn't, but this is you hammering away at Caleb Williams every day. I'm starting to wonder, like, Ben Johnson, great offensive mind. We don't know what he's going to be as a head coach. Head coach is a lot more difficult than just being an offensive coordinator. And so far, you know, Rocky Start, maybe you're on to something? It is interesting when a guy comes with a great reputation as a coordinator, like for instance, Kyle Shanahan came in with a great reputation as a coordinator, that's usually successful. I mean, Sean McVeigh came in and people were saying, this guy's as sharp as any 30-year-old coaching person in the league and he was a home run now there are guys

you're not sure how it's going to work but i mean ben johnson we talked about him for two years we were like dude he is he is calling and dialing up misdirection trick plays like he was he was not your typical offensive coordinator like he was somebody we were sort of mesmerized by We were mesmerized by Kyle Shanahan. And by the way, when Kevin O'Connell got the job in Minnesota, he was called a tall Sean McVeigh. People said, yeah, he is really sharp. When D'Amico Ryans went to Houston, defensive coach,

but I can remember making a call to the Niners, and they're like, bro, he moved up our organization in two years. He was our sharpest assistant, first day on the job. So I do think Ben feels like more of a McVeigh, a Shanahan or a Kevin O'Connell. Zach Taylor wasn't somebody. People said he was bright, but he didn't get all the accolades of Ben Johnson or Kevin O'Connell or Kyle Shanahan.

People say, you know, he's McVeigh's guy. But Raheem Morris, people liked him. McVeigh liked him. He didn't get the accolades. Ben's coming in with a lot of momentum. Yeah, well, one thing we, I totally forgot until you just said it now. So Belichick went from Drew Blood so successful to Brady. Similar quarterbacks, big strapping pocket guys, right?

Andy Reid goes Donovan McNabb who was, you know, really, really good quarterback. We forget that. And to Patrick Mahomes, similar. Like, can run but can win from the pocket. Even Alex Smith was a mover. Alex Smith was a mover. Jared Goff to Caleb Williams. You would agree.

Those are not the same type of quarterbacks, Colin. And I just wonder if the learning curve is a little larger for Ben than we thought it might be. I think that's a very legitimate and a very good point. It's like going from Matt Ryan to Caleb Williams. Jared Goff to Caleb Williams. It is a total different sensibility. And I do think Andy Reid has mastered. And Nick Siriani's done a good job with this.

You have to let athletes be athletes. John Harbaugh, as always said, there are times, Sean McDermott and the offensive coordinators at Buffalo, you've got to let Josh Allen be Josh Allen. You cannot have a rigidity with coaching. So that's a very, very fair point. The home you've worked so hard for. Be sure to catch live editions of the herd weekdays in noon Eastern, 9 a.m. Pacific.

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Honestly, because this guy is over-promising things we never have time for. Yeah, you blubber lips. Blame and me. Well, you know what? It's called Overpromise. You should be good at it because you've been open. for promising women for years. Well, it's a Kavino and Rich after show,

and we want you to be a part of it. We're going to be talking sports, of course, but we're also going to talk life and relationships. And if Rich and I are arguing about something or we didn't have enough time, it will continue on our after show called Overpromised. Well, if you don't get enough, Kavino and Rich, make sure you check out Overpromised,

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Listen to Overpromised with Kavino and Rich on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, it's us, the Jonas Brothers, and guess what? We have some big news. What's the news, name? Huge news. We created our own podcast called,

Hey Jonas. We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to it. We're the first people to do podcasts. Pretty, yeah, pretty wide range of podcasts. We're starting a trend. But this one's extra special.

So how do we actually come up with a name Hey Jonas, guys? I honestly don't remember. I think it was on a call about what we should call it. Well, we were thinking I'm originally calling it one of the early names of our band before Jonas Brothers. This is how you guys remember it going down? Yes. I have a very different memory of this.

We were talking about a thing, a bit for the podcast, where people could call in and say, hey, Jonas. And then I wrote down on my little notepad, Hey, Jonas, and offered it up as a potential title for the podcast. But thanks for remembering that, guys. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL, late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier.

This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque.

Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Jacob Kingston grew up in an isolated polygamist sect. We were God's chosen kingdom on earth.

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Listen to Kingdom of Fraud on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Well, fans do it all the time. I understand it when they do. Media does it too often. I don't like it when they do. They pander. Instead of just saying the truth out loud, Andrew Barry is a very sharp general manager of

the Cleveland Browns. I've said before, Kevin Stefansky and Andrew Barry have overcome a lot. I think they're both top 25% of the league at their respective jobs. Andrew's smart. And instead of pandering, which the media constantly does with young athletes, Andrew Barry said what Chodor Sanders did, getting two speeding tickets as a fifth round draft pick as a quarterback was dumb. Here he is.

Not smart. Just not smart. It's not just about driving a car really fast, but it's about the fact that you can endanger other people. It's about the fact that if a deer or someone, you know, cuts out in front of you, like your reaction time, it's just dangerous. And it's not something that we want our guys to be doing. It's not something that they should be doing. And the number one reason is because we don't want some type of catastrophic accident.

He's a fifth round pick. They haven't invested anything in him. They can show him the door tomorrow. He's a quarterback. The standards higher. I heard a lot of this. Colin, it's no big deal. I've had a speeding ticket.

34% of American men have been arrested. I'm going to hold my quarterback to a little higher standard than the general public. 74% of Americans are overweight. Should my pro athlete? I mean, Bob down the street is. Again, there are standards. I need smarter. I need more dedicated.

I need more focus than young guys getting arrested and people overweight. That's the average. Citizen, fine. This is not an average position. Quarterbacks don't get sick days. You wake up with a sinus infection. You're out. They do. Grab your helmet. Let's go. Let's go. Get in the huddle. Hurry up. Two speeding tickets. Fifth round quarterback is dumb. You know, speeding ticket becomes not knowing the formation on Sunday. Like, it's just not that difficult. Quarterbacks are supposed to put out fires, not start them.

So Andrew Barry is speaking the truth out loud. Whenever I hear this, well, I've done this or I've done that, that's not the standard I'm shooting for. Quarterback NFL franchise. There's 32 starting jobs in the country. Like, that's it. I mean, teams give you about a year and a half and then move off you. You have to make impressions. So I just appreciate a general manager going to a podium and not.

pandering. Just call it out. Not good enough. J-Mac with the news. No, no, no, no, turn on the news. This is the herd line news. All right, Colin, Jets fans, myself included, breathing a sigh of relief today as Justin Fields is back running. Now, he's just jogging here. You can see him with this helmet. This is after getting stepped on and getting suffering a fractured non-big-toe toe. injury. Now, he is not doing all of the quarterback drills. It did look like he was moving fine there to sign autographs. He's fine. I don't know. Listen, it's July. I don't want to see him in action. If the Jets have any hope of being competitive and a decent watch, you need Fields under center.

Like there's no need to do. What is their schedule look like? Let's be fair. They open with Aaron Rogers. If you extrapolate Justin Fields' numbers last year in Pittsburgh, he only got six starts. He had a pretty good year. I don't know. I look at this schedule, and I think if you look at the Jets personnel, there's a lot of winnable games early. It's not a tough schedule. Certainly not a tough schedule in the middle with Atlanta, Miami, Jacksonville,

the Saints in New England near the end. You've got Cleveland and New England to buy in Carolina. This is a very workable schedule. All I'm saying is I like a lot of their players, and I like Justin Fields. I don't know if he's a franchise guy, but there'll be no excuses. This is a schedule you can win 10 games with. Oh, come on.

What are you? What? How are you finding 10 wins on the schedule? Pittsburgh? That's not a lock. The Steelers have a higher win total than the Jets. You get the Steelers at home. I get the Cowboys at home.

I get Carolina at home. I get Cleveland at home. I mean, these are not formed. They'll be favored in those games, potential. They'll be favored in probably five games. Saints, Panthers. They'll be favored in some of those. those games. But right now, are they going to get swept by the Patriots? Probably. Are they that much

better? They struggle with the Patriots last year. Okay. I think the dolphins are going to be a challenge for them in week four. I don't know, man. If you ask me, Jason, how many wins for the Jets this year? I'll go six and eleven. Is that reasonable? Are you saying eight? Yeah. No, I think there are a six, seven win team. I think there's a big chunk of the league. A big chunk of the league that feels like a six or seven win team, and I think the Jets are in that space. Now, if Garrett Wilson happens to go down or something, you can downshift that by two wins. Because they're skill, you want to guess who the Jets number two receiver is right now? Who? Josh Reynolds, who was in Detroit a few years ago that dentures flamed out.

More before, yeah. Yeah, more of a, so that's their number two. They had Devante Adams last year. There's just not a lot of wiggle room on the outside. Transition year for my Jets. Let's go to a college football and your guy, Bill Belichick, very quiet on the Bill Belichick front lately, Colin. But the six-time Super Bowl champion head coach

is planning to build UNC's college program just like an NFL team. Here he is at ACC Media Day. Pro program, practice, training, food, schemes, terminology. It's all pro-program. Not to the extent that we did it. And in the NFL, there'll be fewer plays, fewer adjustments. But it will be along those lines.

And, you know, we use what we need. There are some things that we, I don't think we're going to need this level. And there's other things that we are. Things like that. You just have to, you know, take into consideration. But fundamentally, we're going to do as much as we can at a pro-system. I thought he was actually pretty good at Media Day. I thought he lightened up.

I think, you know, it's funny. When you watch that, and a lot of people didn't like the last documentary on him. They thought Bob Kraft leaked a lot of stuff to make Belichick look bad. But if you go back to Belichick's first three or four years in New England, and maybe it was SpyGate Gate, All the Gates, he was actually pretty funny with the media, and I think he's been better with the media on the college campus. I'm really fascinated by this story because we said yesterday, take Clemson out. Everybody on that schedule is in a rebuild or is a five to six win program.

Syracuse was good last year, but they lost that. quarterback I liked and they lost 15 starters. That schedule is screaming 9-10 wins. So I can't wait to watch this thing. Well, okay, so I was doing some research on UNC before this segment. And again, what we talked about at the very outset of the show, quarterback coach symmetry, Belichick thrived with Bledso then Brady. How did it go with Cam Newton when he was under center for Bell Belichick? I would say this. The NFL is not. college. The NFL is much more quarterback-centric. In college, if I have great, I mean, Georgia's had great players. Georgia had great, Georgia's had one great quarterback in my life, Matt Stafford.

They've won a lot of football games with a lot of guys sitting on NFL benches. Alabama's won a lot of national championships. USC, tell me all the great USC NFL quarterbacks, name six, named four. So Carson Palmer was obviously really gifted. So the college football is about, to me, is about the coach and the roster. NFL is about the coach and the quarterback. And so I think Bill, his ability, you know, Carolina's got some money here. So their quarterback is average, which I think would really hurt them in the big 10 of the SEC. But I think an average quarterback, Bill's recruiting, they can win every game except Clemson.

They're not ready to beat Clemson. And Clemson's got the best quarterback by a mile in that conference. Okay. So that's why I brought up quarterback. I looked into Giovanni Lopez. He's going to be the starter. He was a three-star guy in 22, Colin. He committed to South Alabama.

That was the level he was at three years ago. Now, I haven't seen him. I haven't seen the practice footage. But a little bit of uphill climb for Belichick rolling with Giovanni Lopez when he's got to face Gabe Clubnick of Clemson, who's a Heisele contender, and you seem to think his first round potential. You know, when Dion went to Colorado, he had his son, quarterbacking, so that was an advantage. Belichick doesn't. But I think Belichick has a better overall roster in year one at Carolina than Dion Sanders had at Colorado. I just think, you know,

Travis Hunter and, and Scheder Sanders, it's nice to bring your son along his quarterback. So I think Bill's staff is better than Deion's was. I think Bill's roster is better than Deon was year one, but Shadour Sanders is better than who they have, you know, taking the snows. I'll remind people. I think UNC season playoff contention all year. I'm just betting on Belichick. That's it. Final story, Colin, not great. Hey, Caitlin Clark, she's been out of action.

People are probably wondering, hey, you guys have really talked less about the WNBA lately. Yeah, because Caitlin Clark's hurt. She didn't play last night. They won. But what's more interesting is Clark spoke a little bit about injuries being a pro athlete. How's this for a quote, Colin? This is the first time I haven't felt like a young body that can run around. and sprint every day and just continue to do that.

Being a pro athlete, you really have to take care of both your body and mind. It's been a journey learning about that. Now, that makes it sound like she's just worn down. Like this is the first time I can't just run around and be a young person. You're still young, Caitlin. You're like 24 years old. So let's be, you know, it's funny. Anytime I talk about the WNBA, I get pushback.

And I swear to God, 90% of what I say, is positive and I'll just say this. It's taken the WNBA, you know, a couple years to figure out how popular she is. They have one more big move to make as a league. They've got to get better officiating. They guards in the WNBA get attacked. I mean, go look at the number of total players and the number of injured players in the WNBA. It's unbelievable. And the NBA, which has better officials, you'll notice this. They are more willing to call a quick whistle in the regular season to keep their players healthy for the postseason.

They want their stars available for the postseason. Then in the postseason, let them play. That makes for good basketball. But they kind of protect their players regular season. The WNBA officiates like the NBA does in the postseason. People get knocked to the floor. And I think this is a learning curve. You want your best players healthy for the playoffs.

Then you can take the whistle out, have physicality, have some tussles, have some real animosity. That makes for very good TV. But over the course of a long regular season, you don't want your players getting beat up. I mean, even in baseball, you manage differently in a playoff series than a regular season in June. So I think the league has got to get better officiating and blow the whistle in the regular season, protect Angel Reese last night did not play. The number of injured WNB, again, it's all a learning curve.

This league is paying their refs less than college. According to the Washington Post, less than college basketball reps make. That can't be the case. So, Colin, I'm sure you know that Caitlin Clark's fever are coming out here to play the sparks early next month within the next like 15 days, two weeks. My family, we've inquired about tickets.

and now we're holding off to see if Caitlin Clark's going to be there. I'm not going to lie. And listen, I know the sparks are good. They're an attraction. We're interested in the sparks. But my daughter wants to see Caitlin Clark. Sure. You know, so, like, we're not going to get tickets yet until we find out of Clark's plane.

And I'll just say this. In the NFL, they protect the quarterback. And I know fans hate it when you breathe on Mahomes or Burrow. You know, there's a flag. Fans hate it. But that is smart. I hate it when it happens. But it is smart.

You got it, like you said, you've got to start protecting. the money makers. Yeah, no, no, I remember it was about 10, I was at the other place. It was probably 12 years ago when the NFL came out and got very protective of quarterbacks and everybody whined and complained about it. And I said, go look at the old Terry Bradshaw films and the old Joe Montana films. These guys were getting grabbed and driven into the turf. It's like, that's not what you want. The bottom line is rules are an insurance policy and the players are mansions and sports cars. Protect them. Get insurance. You want Your best players available for longer stretches, especially in playoff basketball.

NBA's figured it out. Give Adam Silver credit. They'll blow a quick whistle in the regular season. But when you go to the post season, then I'll deal with animosity. Then I'll deal with the physicality because it's a much shorter, more intense season. J. Mack with the news. Well, that's the news. And thanks for stopping by.

The Heard Line News. Like I said yesterday on this show, it is time. I'm going to take a little pivot. it because I think this is Aaron Rogers last season. I don't want to be negative guy. And he threw an interception yesterday and everybody got worked up and I'm going to

defend him. And Nick Saban made a veiled reference toward our show as well. That's coming up. Be sure to catch live editions of the herd weekdays in noon Eastern, 9 a.m. Pacific. Hey, it's us, the Jonas brothers. And guess what? We have some big news.

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So I'm reading an article this morning. And the headline to the article, which I disagree with, is Aaron Rogers has a lot more to lose with the Steelers than he did with the Jets. I thought a lot about this. And I think my opinion that's going to stick is that did the Wizards hurt Michael Jordan's legacy? Did Phoenix, Cleveland, Celtics hurt Shacks? It's not about the ending. Marlon Brando is considered the greatest actor of all time. YouTube him sometime.

Fascinating interview. He had three or four atrocious movies. Nobody cares. We judge you in your point. prime, we judge you at the pinnacle. Not the turbulence and the bumpy ending. Not every Beatle song was great, and we don't talk about the ones that missed. We've never spent a second talking about Tom Cruise in The Mummy. We don't do that. Aaron's Prime was 13 years. Four MVP's and a Super Bowl trophy, and he played great. It puts him top 12 all time. Certainly one of the

prettiest passers I've ever seen up there with Dan Marino maybe number one or number two. He's a little prickly and independent as a personality. That's okay. Everybody's different. He is one of the most gifted throwers of the football of all time. And he is in a top 12 of all time. I actually prefer him over Brett Farv. Brett Farv is a gunslinger. I don't think he ages well over time. Gunslingers don't work anymore. They become James Winston. And he's better than James Winston, but Aaron could have played 30 years ago, and Aaron in his prime was great now. Fav was really good, being hard to coach, not necessarily reading coverages and just using his talent.

I don't think that ages as well today. I think football is much smarter today than it was years ago. So I think much like being in the mob, once you're great, you're a made man. Now, like the mob, it doesn't know his end well. but I think we have to be fair with Aaron Rogers. If he goes 7 and 9 in Pittsburgh, he gets hurt in week 13 or doesn't play particularly well, nobody cares. Go look at Johnny Unitas's last team. Go look at Michael Jordan and the Wizards.

Akeem, Patrick Ewing, Shack, it doesn't matter. Now Brady, you know, and this is rare, left and was great in Tampa. That sort of adds to Brady's legend. but the truth was it really only if you really look at what Tampa did for Brady it separated him in the was it Brady or Belichick in New England argument

clearly it was more Brady than Belichick he won the divorce he won the argument but he still would have been the all-time greatest quarterback because all of his hardware so I don't I mean Aaron had an interception yesterday I don't make anything of that and I'm not going to make a lot at a 6 and 11

or 7 and 10 here's Aaron he's going to get it out the way. I mean, anybody that's watching me practice over the years. You know, you'd like to try certain throws at certain times. And anybody that's watching me in the games knows them. I've been pretty stellar taking care of the football over the years. It's going to be a good challenge for me. Throwing this heat every single day I look forward to it, but I'm going to throw some picks. But I'm going to throw some touchdowns, too. Yeah. I just, I don't think if you look at actors, politicians,

were like Bernie Sanders in his prime in Bernie Sanders today, you know, you get to be 75 as a politician. I don't know how judgmental I can get. Same with quarterbacks. Once you get into your 40s, I'm not holding it against you. I mean that doesn't mean Matt Stafford wins a Super Bowl this year. It can't elevate his legacy. It doesn't mean if Brady's good in Tampa,

it can't mean he really definitively won the divorce with Belichick. Yes, there can be more upside. But I, it's Marlon Brando. It's the Beatles. It's Tom Cruise. In their prime best. So, you know, there's been a story this week, Jay Mack. And it is very much a connect-the-dot story.

Jimmy Sexton, Nick Saban, Jimmy Haslam. And I have said, I think Saban will not go to college. But when Greg McElroy and Lane Kiffin, who know him very, very, very well, said, there's a lot of talk about him coming back to coaching. I don't think it's college. I discussed it this week. College is now, the NIL is so expensive, you have to go to your boosters to get $15 to $18 million to pay the players. You're not going to buy out your coach at another $70 million and then pay $75 million to get Sabin.

Like, it's just the NIL actually helps coaches get two or three more years. You're raising so much money to pay the players. You're not buying out staffs at $70 million, too. paying 70 million for the next coach. He's not going to college. Would he take a call and consider the NFL? That's all I've said. Yes. And Saven was on Fox News and could have given an absolutely definitive answer. Instead, he said this. There is no opportunity that I know of right now that would enhance me to go back to coaching. Right now. I mean, I'm not hungry right now. I'm not tired right now, but I'm going to eat and sleep later, right? Yes and no are definitive answers.

Absolutely or never are definitive answers. The specificity with that answer was intentional. It was, I mean, if you kind of, right now, you ever getting divorced? I mean, right now, I'm happy with my current wife. You know, that's not the answer you want to hear. It's never, I'm wildly in love. Right now, it's leaving the door open. And by the way, I can bring up an old Nick Saban press conference from Miami. I could do that, so why don't we do that? Here it is.

Well, then I guess I have to say it. I'm not going to be the Alabama coach. I shouldn't even have to comment on this. I think I've said this over and over and over again. There's also not one opening now. Arch Manning, still a college player now. So I'm just saying I thought it was very intentional. There's not a place I'm going to leave for right now.

And I don't even think this is an argument. Like that's very open. That's very gray. And he may not take the job. I'm not saying definitively he's going to. I'm saying if Cleveland ends up with the number one pick, if the Saints end up with the number one pick and take Arch Manning, he's coached in Louisiana, he's coached in Ohio.

He's taking the call. He may go to Ms. Terry, discuss it for a couple of days, but I know what he kind of makes at ESPN. He's going to make about 30% more or more than that coaching pro football. He'll take the call. I don't think he's going to college. So, I mean, yes, no, absolutely never. Those are definitive.

I'm not tired right now. It means you will probably eventually sleep. Right? Like we all, this isn't a reach by me. I thought that was a very intentional answer. And that's okay. You know, I mean, broadcasters have a right to leave anytime they want. Much easier to leave broadcasting jobs.

Bill Parcells did that multiple times. Nobody's going to hold it against you. I think Dick Vermeal may have or may have not let, nobody's holding it against you. You know, you leave a college, you leave a job. But I'm just saying, and there's going to be jobs, not just random jobs open. Arch Manning going to a place Nick is coached. The Dallas Cowboys could be open.

There are years, last year there was one great job opening, and Harbaugh took it. Justin Herbert, L.A. Market, decent roster. That was a great job opening. Matt LaFlewer to Green Bay. That's one of the best job openings ever. Aaron Rogers, well-run organization. By the way, when McCarthy took the Cowboys, Dak Prescott closer to his prime,

that wasn't a bad job opening. A lot of them are rebuilds. He's not going to a total rebuild. But if he's going to be watching all these college quarterbacks, okay, you tell me watch that Clemson kid, or he watches Arch Manning, or he watches Drew Aller, and all of a sudden the Saints or Cleveland can get those guys, he's absolutely taking the call, and he's absolutely considering it.

Yeah, Colin this little. lines up perfectly with what you like to say. When you get new information, sometimes you change your mind, right? On athletes, on coaches and openings, I think is the same thing. Nick Saban says he's happy where he's doing right now. And then if, you know, Arch Manning lines up to the Jets or the Browns or whatever happens, sure, I'm sure he's going to take the call. Now, the real interesting one is what goes on in Dallas?

Is that someone Jerry Jones would want to hire? Do you want Sabit? Do you want Dion Sanders, who I personally think Colorado takes a big step back this year. I'm sure Joel Clatt knows more. So it's interesting. Belichick had no interest going west. If you looked at who he interviewed for jobs, it was mostly, you know, he's got a place on like Jupiter, Florida, Nantucket. Bill didn't want to be out west.

Tom Brady, frankly, had told people, you know, he went to Tampa. He considered Miami. Tom didn't really want to go west at the time with Giselle. They had the kids, right? He wanted to be new. He didn't want to go west. So my take is Texas for Sabin. I mean, he and his wife, Miss Terry, they called her.

They flew to Austin, Texas, or she did. Remember he lost to Auburn, and there was a lot of heat on Sabin, and it was like, you guys have Sabin, everybody loses in big rivalries. Michigan 20-point dog just beat Ohio State. Slow down. But it kind of ticked Sabin off. He ended up getting a great deal from Alabama to go back. He got somebody to pay off his house.

He got a car dealership. He was so ticked off by that. But Texas, Saints feel like, you know, he's got his lake house. I could see that very much with him. Quick private jet from Dallas to his lakehouse in Georgia or New Orleans that just feels like those fit. He's taking, first of all, he's getting a call. Takes it, I don't know. Hey, guys, it's us.

The Jonas Brothers. I'm Joe. I'm Kevin. And I'm Nick. And guess what? We created our own podcast called, Hey, Jonas. We invented a podcast? didn't invent it. We just contributed to it.

We're the first people to do podcasts. We get to ask other people questions because we're sick and tired of being asked questions. Well, sick and tired is a strong way to put it, but, you know, tired and sick. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman helped make you funnier. This week, my guest, S&L's Mikey Day and headwriter, Streeter Seidel, help an

a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the I-heart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Winning on Clay is an art. The rallies are relentless. And at the French Open, only the toughest survive. I'd know. I competed there for decades. Join me, Renee Stubbs, on the Renee Stubbs tennis podcast for no nonsense breakdowns of the biggest matches, the toughest players, and the moments that define Roland Garris. She's an outsider to win the French name.

And she likes Clay. Listen, Lernerabakina is arguably the best player in the world right now, and I actually can win on any surface. Listen to the Renee Stubbs tennis podcast on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHeart Women's Sports. I'm Michelle McPhee, and I've been unraveling the strangest. criminal alliance I've ever reported on, a Mormon polygamist and an Armenian businessman.

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