The Herd with Colin Cowherd - HOUR 1 - Chiefs, OBJ, Rams

Episode Date: November 2, 2021

The Chiefs are just average on offenseOBJ simply doesn't work in ClevelandThe Rams are built from the draftGuest: Peter Schrager Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Sports Radio. Oh, here we go on a Tuesday, live in beautiful Los Angeles. It's the Hurt, wherever you may be, and however you may be listening. IHeart Radio, Fox Sports Radio, FS1, one hour from now, the herd hierarchy. Man, the NFC has almost every great team in this league. The Super Bowl bubble now is looking like an NFC bubble. We'll talk about that. Joy Taylor is joining me, Joy, there are days where this job you get gifts, and we just got one from LeBron James about

OBJ. I'm going to get to that in five minutes. I love what we do, Joy. I love, well, this could be a very active day for us. We are on air during the time where news tends to break, and today is a newsbreaking day. Trade deadline approaching. Yes, of the NFL.

So I'll get to the OBJ thing in a couple of minutes. Let me start with story time from Uncle Colin. Don't you wish I was your uncle? I hope always got stories. So there are times in life when we do things that are so humiliating or wonderful or memorable, you can remember them. I can smell things.

When I was a kid seven, eight years old, I went to Mount Rainier. My family went to Mount Rainier. My sister and I drove bikes up in paradise. It's a part in Mount Rainier. The memories are so strong for me. I kid you not that about twice a year I smell like a campfire. and it takes me 50 years back to being with my sister on a bike. That's how much fun I have.

This happens in sports. It happens in life. You're humiliated in high school. You could have been humiliated last week. It just stuff sticks. You can't unsee it. You can't unsmell it. You can't unexperience it.

I've seen this in sports. Miracle on ice. The greatest, most dramatic sports moment in American history, we beat the Russians in hockey. I remember exactly where I was. The carpet was green. the door was brown. The glass I had had orange soda in it. I can remember every color from the moment.

It was such a powerful moment. And when I watched the Kansas City Chiefs, sometimes I think they were so powerful. They were so unique. They're the only team in my life where they fell behind 24-0 in a playoff game. And I sat on the couch thinking, eh, that's okay. They just got to kind of get buttoned up here and they'll win.

And they did. They scored like 45 straight points. They were doing plays I'd never seen. Mahomes were throwing the ball sideways, left-handed. It was so powerful. You can't unsee it. And everybody now isn't acknowledging they're just average. Kansas City is an average offense.

Folks, even Vegas hasn't adjusted yet. In the last 20 games, the chiefs are 5 and 15 against the spread. The market hasn't adjusted. Conversely, Dallas has been so average for two decades that the market hasn't adjusted to how good the cowboys are. The cowboys would blow the Chiefs doors off tomorrow. Dallas is 7 and 0 against the spread. We don't realize how good Dallas is

because of all the memories of how average they've been and overrated for 20 years, and we don't understand what we're watching with Kansas City right now. They're average. Forget their team, their offense. They have no running game. Their offensive line is not jelling right now. it's below average in the NFL. Mahomes is missing. His mechanics are bad. He's missing on

throw. Should have had another ball picked off last night. Travis Kelsey's disappeared. What do they do well? But they were so spectacular and so clever and so unique. And they did plays now that everybody's copying these little shovel passes. They didn't see those 10 years ago. You didn't see those five years ago. I mean, Kansas City is incredibly lucky to just be in the AFC. Look at the top of the NFC right. If they were an NFC team, they would be a second-tier team. I mean, the roster of Dallas, of Tampa, of Green Bay, of Arizona, of the Rams, stars, having great years, both sides of the ball performing. Kansas City's offense isn't even performing. And if you look at their schedule, I mean, Dallas with Cooper Rush on the road was more impressive than Kansas City at home against the New York Giants last night.

I mean, here's another little factoid that we have to be honest about. Kansas City does not have a win against the winning team this year. And by the way, three of their four wins come against the weakest division, the NFC East. And if you look at their schedule, it is now the toughest remaining schedule in the NFL. Green Bay, at the Raiders, at the Chargers, Pittsburgh, at Cincinnati, brutal. They're not going to be a playoff team. There's a strong likelihood. They're not going to be a playoff team.

but they were so spectacular and so vivid and so animated and so fun and so spectacular, left-handed throws and side-arm throws, coming from behind literally in all their playoff games, the year they won the Super Bowl. The market is not adjusted to what's really happening. I've said this. Michigan football, my entire childhood, Michigan football was great. They had the big house. They were in the biggest rivalry.

They had the best fight song. They had the coolest uniforms. They were on TV every week. Michigan hasn't been elite in 20 years. They're not as good as Michigan State this morning. They're not even the best football program. But I can't, when I look at Michigan, I just think, Big House, Band, Victors, Uniform, Michigan, great. What are they today?

The 15th best program in the country, the last 15 years? They can't beat Michigan State. They don't even compete mostly against Ohio State. They're two and 12 against top teams. When memories are strong and experience. are strong. It's hard to unsee stuff. I will say they won, they endured, and Andy Reid talked about that after the game, and he's right. Listen, I mean, everything's not beautiful right now, but we're fighting through that. That happens in this game. Our guys battled. They didn't

give up on each other. They kept working through what could have been a time when he just throw your hands up and go, oh my God. I mean, things aren't working the way they're supposed to work. You know, guys didn't do that. So we'll build on that. I mean, let's keep going. I mean, they don't give these things away, and I think that's important for everybody to understand.

Now, they have the talent. Maybe the offensive line starts to gel. They pick up a couple of impressive wins. We're not canceling the team. We don't think they'll never be good again. But right now in this moment, they're not even the best. four and 14.

I mean, New England right now is doing multiple things well. Like their defense, their special teams, their run game, their pass protection. Kansas City is not doing almost anything well. Travis Kelsey is the best tenet in football. Where is he? But it's okay. They'll get it right. But the powerful memories of this wizardry on offense,

it's hard to see them objectively. All right, let's shift to this. I said this last year. When you live in Los Angeles and Joy and I, because of our business, you know, you end up knowing people through your agent, through this, through that. Everybody knows somebody famous in Los Angeles, right? Like everybody knows somebody, right? You know, somebody that's an actor, somebody, I was talking to a friend last night. He was like, oh, I was at a restaurant, and Beck showed up.

And I'm like, it doesn't happen in Cincinnati, right? And so I said this last year that I just happened to know somebody who I admire a lot, who's a big deal in town, who's friends with OBJ. And he said, OBJ is being a really good guy in Cleveland. He's being a team player. He's not into Cleveland. He's not into Baker. It's just not, it's not working.

But, you know, I'm not here to blow it up, but it was a thing we, I talked about it briefly last year. and so it's very interesting. So the trade deadlines today, O'Dell Beckham, Sr., his dad posted a video putting blame on Baker Mayfield for all of it. But what does that mean? Why did his dad do it the day before the trading deadline?

His son wants out. OBJ wants out. Cleveland has said, we don't want to trade OBJ. OBJ wants out. So his dad is starting this. And to double down on this, LeBron James and LeBron and his guys are tight with OBJ. LeBron James said this morning, OBJ will show again why he's special,

wide receiver won, free OBJ. So both his dad and his most powerful friend LeBron, on the day of the trading deadline and on the eve of the trading deadline are trying to create a situation where OBJ can get out in revive his career. OBJ wants out. He wanted out last year. He wants out. He goes to his friend LeBron with power in Cleveland. He goes to his dad. This is not a coincidence. He wants out. I was told he wanted out last year. The previous GM John Dorsey brought him to Cleveland. It never fit. He doesn't fit Baker. He doesn't fit Cleveland. He doesn't fit Stephansky's offense. I'm not blaming anybody here. This is not me blaming Baker. But Baker Mayfield, when targeting OBJ this year, has a 50% completion rate. Lowest of any receiver. He has a 72 passer rating when targeting OBJ. The lowest of any Brown's receiver. It doesn't work. And what's funny about it, I always think it's so hacky when people talk about hot takes. Like, you're a hack if you have to bring that up.

Because it used to be a hot take when people like me said, OBJ doesn't work in Cleveland and Baker's better without him. Remember that was a hot take? No, it's actually called data. Do your homework. They are better without OBJ. He doesn't. want to be there. Bill Belichick has been saying it for years. Belichick's famous quote is, this sport's not about collecting talent. It's about building a team. And some players fit better into one system or style or play than they do another. Obj doesn't work with Baker. He doesn't work in Cleveland. He doesn't work with Stefansky. It's not a hot take. It's data. It's there. By the way, this isn't even the first year. It doesn't work.

This has been going on for two years. And I'm not blaming Baker at all. I just don't think they work. Baker is a young quarterback. Stafansky's a young coach. There is this sense that you got to get the ball to this superstar player. At least he was a couple years ago. I thought it was a terrible move by Dorsey.

I never liked it. Jarvis Landry is a great fit. Jarvis Landry is underrated. Jarvis Landry is underappreciated. He's exactly what you give Baker Mayfield. You give a young, you know, when you have a young quarterback, you give him hungry receivers with a lot to prove. OBJ was a star.

He didn't have anything to prove. He went from the New York Giants, you know, this Blue Blood franchise with Super Bowls to the losing his franchise outside of Detroit in the last 25 years. It was a terrible fit. It's not a hot take. It doesn't work. This idea that you owe the best players, that's all it's about. Just get the best players and you win all the games.

When is New England in the last 20 years? had the best roster. Let's start with never and work our way from there. It's never been about having the best players. It's having six or seven really high-end players mixed in different units. So every unit has somebody who can make great plays and then having a really good coach, a really good system, a really smart quarterback. It doesn't work.

It's not a hot take. But what you're seeing this morning is LeBron and his guys are tight with OBJ. They have gone to social media. Let him go. and his dad has gone to social media blaming Baker Mayfield that you would think would propel him out of town. Now Cleveland this morning said we're not moving him. Move him.

It's time. Move him. OBJ, in my opinion, would rather get cut. He wants to get cut so he can reboot his career. I don't blame him. I've said this before and I'll say it again. This is where I'll defend players to the end. This is why mobility is important.

OBJ, he may have one or two prime years left athletically. If it's not working, let him go. This is why I defend Kevin Durant when he left Westbrook and went to Steph Curry. Yeah, because Steph Curry's way better than Westbrook. I would choose Steph Curry over Westbrook. Now, I wouldn't choose Kyrie Irving over Steph Curry, but I've always kind of defended KD's moves. And I will defend OBJ here.

Let him go. He's been a good soldier. He hasn't been disruptive. I mean, you never hear a peep from him. Seriously, he's the biggest star in Cleveland. I never hear him. He's been a good guy about this. It doesn't work.

He's told his friends privately get me out of here. Now his friends are kind of coming to the rescue. But he has been, he really has been. You may not like his production. He has never been difficult here. Baker has had his days. OBJ has never been difficult. And I've been critical of him.

But at this point, let him go. Let him reboot his career. All right. There we go. I'm just on a rant. Some days I just, I just feel like wrestling. Let's feel like fighting all day today. All day today.

I'm on the side of OBJ and mobility. How about that? Peter Schrager is going to stop by today. You know, it's interesting. The Rams made a huge deal yesterday. And we keep saying this over and over. I think it's going to be very good for the Rams. Almost everything they do works, right?

it's like I'm surprised, you know, like Cleveland says, we're not going to move OBJ. Are you happy with what you have? Like there's so many teams in this league, New England and the Saints, like need a speed receiver. Go get one. You can sit around and wait for the draft? I mean, to me, there are so many teams that just need just a little this and a little that. Rams are like, yeah, we don't even know if we need it, but we want to go do it.

And I support that. The big swing by the Rams. live editions of the herd weekdays in noon eastern 9 a.m. Pacific on Fox Sports Radio, FS1, and the iHeart radio app. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth.

Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care which I'll say it. Yep, that's me, Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football,

or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment,

and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So, if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to The Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok.

Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tap Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do with Little Kim? Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam Jek. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick a here, unpack what we.

went down and tried to make sense of how we survived it. Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill, waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 was big to me, not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack all day, but just so you all know. I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack. So I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now.

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News doesn't usually break at 6 in the morning or, you know, six at night in sports. It often breaks the trades are done when the executives are in the offices all day, so we're crossing our fingers on that. But it was interesting, the Rams made a deal for Vaughn Miller yesterday. And the Rams brand is stars. Big moves and big trades. 14 of the 22 starters for the Rams were drafted. Their pro bowl punter, they didn't even have to draft. They got them as an unrestricted free agent.

This team's built on draft picks. Their brand is stars. What makes them really good is they have an excellent scouting department, and they rarely miss on their third, fourth, fifth round picks. And oh, by the way, they also may have the best NFL scouting department because they never miss, it seems, on their free agent. Andrew Whitworth, home run. Jalen Ramsey, home run, Austin Corbett, Cleveland couldn't figure out to do with it.

Excellent starter on the offensive line. Leonard Floyd. Everybody thought he was a bust. Robert Woods, Matt Stafford. I mean, free agency is about a 33-3. hit rate. Rams are about a 90% hit rate. I mean, look at, look for instance, at the Miami Dolphins in the last two years. Will Fuller Free Agency? It's not working. Byron Jones didn't work. Kyle Van Nuoy, bust. Look at the Giants. Kenny Galladay. It's not working. Nate Solder,

way too expensive. The hit rate in free agency is really low. The smart teams basically avoid it. the Rams just hit home runs and they hit it in the draft. And Aaron Donald is right now their only first round pick, right? Like if you look at their, that's their big first round pick. They've mostly done it the second, the third, the fourth, the fifth. So their brand is, oh, they just spend all this money. And what's most impressive is that Sean McVeigh is losing top assistants every year. In fact, there are two assistants this year.

So you could have all sorts of chaos here. No, they don't. They come off as really flat. They're not. Von Miller is going to work. Dante Fowler is a good example. Dante Fowler was viewed as a bust in Jacksonville. He came to the Rams. He resurrects his career.

So you know Von Miller's going to work because virtually all, all their free agents work. And it all starts with the culture. It is in a flashy entertainment-driven town. It is a rock-solid, work hard. You never, in this flashy L.A. town, you never hear about a ram in trouble. You never hear them out in the town. I never hear about Aaron.

Donald out. I've never seen him. I never seen Stafford. I've never seen Ramsey. I've never seen Whitworth. Their brand is all flash. That's not what they are. They are in the building, working hard, being quiet, memorizing tape. So Vaughn Miller's going to work because everything works. I mean, virtually everything is where even Matt Stafford worked faster than we thought. They bring players over it. They don't just work. They almost work all of them immediately. there is no learning curve for Kenny Goladay that just works. Second game, third game. Oh, we got ourselves a pro bowler.

Joy with the news. No, no, no, no, no. Turn on the news. This is the herd line news. Jared Gough can't win a game. Jared Gough worked. Yeah, I mean, look at that. I mean, not a job of America, it's just reality.

But yeah, the culture. He gets to a Super Bowl with one team. He can't win a game with another. And that's not what McVeigh is obviously smart. smart. But it is funny. I talk to less need from time to time. Try not to bother them in the season. But when you talk to them, it's all about the grind. You and I have said

this. You never see a ram ever. No, we never saw Jared Gough out anywhere. You don't see anybody. It doesn't mean anything. Like you can go to dinner if you'd like. But I've never seen them out. No. It's a very quiet, head down, responsible. Yeah. Colin and I are raging

in Hollywood. So if we don't see you out, you're not out. So James Winston suffered a C.C. an ending knee injury, but it doesn't sound like the Saints will be pursuing another quarterback right now from outside of the organization. Sean Payton said yesterday it'd be a challenge to bring in someone unfamiliar with the offense at this point in the year. Ian Rappaport of NFL Network yesterday reported that the MRI confirmed that James Winston suffered a torn ACL and there's also damage to his MCL. And so he is out for the rest of the season. Trevor Simeon replaced Winston on Sunday and went 16 of 29 for 100.

159 yards and a touchdown. Obviously, they got the win. But Taysam Hill has missed the last two games with the concussion. Payton said yesterday he's progressing, but it's unclear if he's going to be cleared for this week. And Ian Book, the rookie quarterback is the third quarterback on the roster. He's been inactive all season. Listen, they're getting Michael Thomas back. They just got Mark Ingram.

Their schedule, the NFC middle and bottom is weak. Their defense to me, they're a playoff team. So they're five and two right now. their next couple games. They have the Falcons and then the Titans, which we'll see where they go. We'll see how they're going to be. The Eagles.

Win. Bills. Los. Cowboys. Loss. Jets, bucks, dolphins, panthers. There's a lot of wins in there. This feels like a 9 and 8 makes the playoff as a wildcard team.

This defense, the coaching. I don't know. When I look at him, I'm like, no, the season's not over. I mean, it's obviously disappointing. You want to have your starting quarterback, and it's devastating for James, I'm sure, as well. But generally, I would think for a team that's on the brink,

you might want to bring someone in, but for Sean Payton, it doesn't make a whole lot. I think he's right. It doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Their offense and the way that they do things, you want to have somebody who at least is familiar. I think you're in a better situation at this point in the season with someone who at least has been in the building

and is familiar with what you do. They're not a quarterback-driven franchise this morning. They weren't with James. They weren't. I mean, Alvin Kamara was like their go-to-wide receiver out of the backfield. So they're not a quarterback-driven franchise. Right now they're actually Sean Payton's team's winning with defense. Their defense is fantastic. So I think this is not a team where you're like, oh, it's man overboard. I think they can end up being a wildcard team,

absolutely. Well, they don't have their starting quarterback and host the Falcons on Sunday, and their six-point favorites, according to Foxbat. There you go. So that should tell you with their offense and how their team has run. So Mike Rable announced yesterday that Derek Henry will undergo foot surgery, and he is unsure if he could potentially return. I know that he'll do everything that he can to work himself back to be able to help this football team. And whenever that is, you know, that's when it'll be. And I know that he'll be around our team as soon as he can. I know that's important to him.

I know that'll be important to our team. And, you know, we will have to move on. You know, we have to move on, unfortunately, without him here in the short term. and not look back. He's expected to miss six to ten weeks. So he's going to be back. You know Derek Henry, these pro athletes, even Russell Wilson now, is already back early. The guys that are in great shape are almost always back early.

You can generally take the lesser of the expected weeks. Six to ten weeks. Let's go seven weeks. All right, he's right back at the end of the year and into the playout. This division, they're going to win the playoff. They're going to win this division. Right. Well, I mean, it depends. Henry, we can't discredit what he brings to this offense.

Like, he is a massive part of why they are successful. Agent Peterson signed to the practice squad. He's expected to be added to the active roster. They have Jeremy McNichols and Don Trinnell-Hillard on the roster, but he leads the NFL in rushing yards and 10 touchdowns this season. He has a league high, 219 rushes. So they definitely lean on him. It'll be interesting to see what their offense looks like without him.

because he is such a dynamic piece of it. I mean, you're right about the division. It's completely winnable. And they've beaten the Colts both times. And they're six and two. So it's not like they are, you know, scraping by at this point in the season. They're first in the AFC South. And they beat the Colts.

Both times. Both times. So they're in a great situation as far as that goes. The Jags and Texans are in total rebuild. So as far as the division goes, they're good. Play 500 football for the next six weeks, which they certainly can. I would imagine they have a Jags game

and a Texans game on their schedule in the next six weeks. Those are doubles. Right. Well, they just have to stay afloat. They face the Rams on Sunday night. They're seven and a half point underdogs according to Fox Bet,

and that's a tough one to come off losing Derek Henry. But yes, moving forward, they're not in the worst situation. So Russell Wilson had the pin removed from his surgically repaired right middle finger, which was a big step in his return,

a bunch of injury updates today, but that's where we are in the season. So it still remains a question whether he's going to play against the Packers after this week's buy. They did get lucky that they did have a buy here. So it's kind of an extra bonus week for him to recover. He's eligible to return from IR now because he's missed the required three games. He posted a picture Monday afternoon, yesterday afternoon with the pin out, which is always like. Honestly, people that work in the medical field, I commend you.

I have no idea how you do it. I can't even look at, like, that was inside. I can't. Blood doesn't bother me, but like, I could not. Needles and pins. I don't even mind needles. I have good veins. Yeah.

You know, you have good veins too, right? Yeah. So that doesn't bother me too much. But other, doing it to other people, I have no idea how. But anyway, that's the pin that was in him. And they return from there by, which will be four weeks and three days since Wilson's surgery. So to your point, if he's on the lower end of the recovery, he'll be available to come back. They are at the bottom of the NFC West at three and five.

49ers 3 and 4. And of course, we know what the Rams and Cardinals are doing. But it's good news that he got the pin out. Good stuff. Joy with the news. Well, that's the news. And thanks for stopping by. The herd hierarchy, top of the hour. Oh, I love, you know, we get Schrager on the show.

We used to not be able to get him. He's very busy. He's writing bestsellers. He's very, very busy on other networks. But we have been able to wrestle him away almost every week now on Tuesdays. And Peter Schrager, brought to you by Mercedes Ben's the best or nothing. That's the cheat sheet. Fox Sports app.

It's great, by the way. All sorts of stuff. All right, Shrags. So I always give you credit for this. You told me like three years ago. You're like, there's this kid named Mahomes. And I'm like, Peter, it's camp. What the hell are you talking?

He's like, he's going to take the league of heart. And I remember we were on the set at Fox, and I'm like, Shreggs, stop. He's, practice. Well, you were right. So I'm going to go back to you here. And I said to start my show, they are so spectacular. It is hard to unsee what we've seen the last three years with them. But right now, Shregs, even offensively, they don't do a ton right.

It's not a great team, right? They don't look worthy of us even having a conversation on the herd. They look like a mediocre team. And I say this as the biggest Mahomes supporter. I love the team that they've built. I've loved the last few years. Last night, the Giants had an inexplicable taunting penalty from Eli Pist. penny. They had an off sides on a key, key play, which was an interception that was then reversed

because of the off sides. And they had that questionable face. If those plays don't happen, we're talking about the four and five Kansas City Chiefs who just lost at home on Monday Night Football to the three and six New York Giants. That game was a Giants giving that to Kansas City. And I can say that because I know how good the chiefs can be. The interceptions are inexplicable. The defensive schemes that they're seeing now, it's, got the two safeties and Mahomes is like so impatient that he can't just take what is given that there is almost a way to beat the chiefs right now and there's no spark. So I can't crown the chiefs this morning. If anything, I want to see if they can get more aggressive, especially

the next few hours. They just acquired Melvin Ingram to add to their defensive line. Yeah. I like that move. I think there might be more moves we made. The chiefs, the team we saw the last two weeks, you know, I can't come out here and just say, wow, they won. That team's not competing for a Super Bowl and they know it. Yeah. So, you know, I had said about the Rams is they, the exterior is, oh, they're a flashy team. What the reality is, is most of their starters are second, third, fourth, 14 of their 22 starters are draft picks. And they don't, they don't miss on a lot of them. And their free agent signings, not only do they work, they all work instantly. And, you know, yesterday I had Thomas

Dimitrov, the former GM on, and he said, he goes, I just talked to last. There's a little genius here to what they're doing. They're just saying, we're out of the draft pick business for the time being. We're into them. What do you make of what they did with Vaughn Miller? Yeah, and this is really interesting because they've been in this business for years now, and it's not just the guys on the current team. They did it with Akeb to leave with Marcus Peters, with Brandon Cooks.

They've been doing this. They haven't had a first round pick since 2016. They will not have a first round pick until 2024. And they'll end up probably trading that pick soon anyway. So that's their philosophy right now. and they play for the now and for the moment. And it's, look, it's this great team. We're seven and one.

Why rest on our laurels? Let's go get better. And what that does in the building, it lifts, it lifts everyone. I spoke to a source in the Rams organization who said, Leonard Floyd walked in, had not seen the Vaughn Miller news until he got to the facility. He was running down the hallways, excited to say, hey, we added Vaughn Miller. It does something to a team to know that the front office is going to only help you get to that ring. Only going to help you get that Lombard.

And one quick note, they took all. yesterday after that win in Houston on Sunday, they took off not knowing whether the deal was going to happen or not. And when they landed, the Patriots had beaten the Chargers and the Broncos had beaten Washington. And they went to bed Sunday night, like, maybe the Broncos are going to say, we're four and four. Let's keep Vaughn. Let's try. They called up and they said, no, no, we're still willing to trade Von Miller. And like, the Rams were like so excited. They're all in. And it's like, that's deliberate. That's intentional. They know they're all in. And when there's that kind of pressure and urgency, you feel it throughout the building.

And those veteran players, they know that the guys upstairs, they're worried about them, not about their replacements. Yeah, good point. Shragues, you know, the trading deadline is fascinated. Joey and I talked about this yesterday. Every league needs to have about three awful teams because then the top teams can go get their best players. That allows the bad teams to rebuild, get some cap space. bad teams have value. You don't want 10 of them, but it's okay to have a couple of them.

And, you know, like, I'll give me an example. But then you get these teams that are in the middle, like Philadelphia. Now, what are they doing in that building this morning? Yeah, it's a great question. It's funny you bring up the Eagles because they come off this win. They win of 44 to 6, and now you're 3 and 5. And you look at the NFC. You're like, that 7th spot is just one game away. And do it.

But then you look at what the Eagles have this offseason. they've got 11 draft picks in the 22 draft. They've got three first round picks in the 22 NFL draft. They've got huge cap space. And you look at their roster and it's like Fletcher Cox, here's a guy who has been an amazing eagle,

one of the best eagles we've ever had. His contract isn't terrible because of a cap restructure. Do you flip Fletcher Cox now for a second or a third round pick and dump him and say, hey, go and we're going to be good and we're going to take that?

Or do you say, gosh, Fletcher Cox helps us now if we sneak in the playoffs, maybe we win a couple games, maybe we have another run like we did a couple years ago, and maybe Fletcher Cox is the best player on a Super Bowl team. A lot of teams are in that spot right now, Colin. Because like the Vikings, are they winning a Super Bowl this year? They're 4 and 4.

The Niners, are they winning a Super Bowl this year? They're right there. These teams have to decide, do we want to trade those veteran pieces? Odell Beckham included in Cleveland at a 4-4 Browns team, do you say, hey, let's look for that draft pick, let's dump this player now, let's get something for him, or do you convince yourself that maybe this still is the year, as we thought it might have been going into this season?

Yeah. By the way, I still think OBJ in New England is fascinating. They do not have an over-the-top piece. I'll just throw it out there. By the way, the Fletcher Cox thing, you shouldn't have done that. And for the next three hours, I'm not going to be able to concentrate because I'll have Fletcher Cox on the brain. All right.

Deshaun Watson, Shregs, we thought it was happening. He has given clearance to be traded to Miami, but I don't know. Where are we at on that? We got a couple hours left, and by the time this hits your podcast, it's probably going to be past a trade deadline, and we'll know exactly what's happening. But Houston originally going into this thing said we want three first round picks and we want three additional assets, whether it be draft picks or players. I can tell you that their ask has lessened. It is now three first round picks still and two additional assets.

The only team that is in the conversation is Miami. The dolphins have to decide whether they feel comfortable or not with what's going on off the field. This thing is 22 civil cases, of course, and then we know that there also might be some stuff coming down the pike in February and March. That is on the Dolphins right now, and we've got a couple hours left to go, but Carolina's not happening,

Denver's not happening, Washington as of right now has not inserted themselves in the conversation. It's Miami or nobody, and it's more of an appetite, whether they're willing to take on all that comes with the to Sean Watson case. There's no doubt they love the player,

but can they get around the fact of the unknown of what might happen with him as the person over the next couple months. Great stuff by Shregs. Cheat Sheet, Fox Sports app. So much good stuff. Fletcher Cox. Let's do a second. Colin, why do you tell your viewers that you're not a, you and joy aren't famous celebrities?

People go out in L.A. to see the two of you, not the other way around. Don't downplay your status. You're right. We are kind of a big deal. I'm not going to deny that, Shrax. I know you are. Could see anybody. Love you guys.

Fletcher Cox is fascinating. So Philadelphia has got all these right. I mean, Philadelphia could have three at the top eight picks next year. It's insane. I mean, can you imagine being an Eagles fan? That Thursday draft and you got three picks? Well, if you're an Eagles fan, you're looking forward to the draft, that it might be a long winter.

All right. Top of the hour, herd hierarchy. Be sure to catch live editions of the herd weekdays in noon Eastern, 9 a.m. Pacific. Hey, what's up, everybody? It's me. I'm Pro Bowl of LeVar Arrington, and I couldn't be more excited to announce a new podcast called Up on Game. What is Up on Game, you ask? Along with my fellow Pro Bowler, T.J. Hushmanzada and Super Bowl champion.

Yep, that's right. Plexico Burris. You can only name a show with that type of talent on it. Up on Game. We're going to be sharing our real life experiences loaded with teachable moments. Listen to Up on Game with me, LaVar Arrington, T.J. Hushman Zata, And Plexico Burris on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast from. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged.

It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way,

this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand-new podcast. The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music.

The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast, it's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So, if you've ever supported me, or you're just chasing down a dream, This is right where you need to be. Listen to The Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok.

Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tap Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do with Little Kim? Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam Jek. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick it here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it.

Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 is big to me, not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack all day, but just so y'all know. I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack. So I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now. Thank you for finishing that sentence. Yes.

I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really? Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hard Way with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kear Games. And in recognition of mental health awareness month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking, Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark,

Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing. And we're still chasing it. And we don't know when we've done enough. Because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross, because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on Earth. Are you a good person because you're afraid? Because that's two different intentions, bro.

Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person. Join me, Kear Gaines, as we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, Learn the Hardway. Open your free iHeartRadio app.

Search Learn the Hardway and listen now. Order Jersey mics in your mobile app. Get delivery to your home or pick up to your nearest location. Limited time, free game day delivery on Saturdays when you order through the Jersey mics app. Jersey mics be a sub above. You know, it's funny, there are certain things in sports that we see over and over and over and over again and people still deny it.

It was amazing when the data was completely clear that Baker Mayfield and OBJ didn't work. I'm not blaming Baker. I'm not blaming OBJ. Some stuff doesn't work. I've had coworkers in my life that were wildly talented. They're not good for the room. You know, they just don't work in the room. Doesn't mean they're not brilliant.

Doesn't mean we're wrong. like OBJ and Baker never worked. The data tells you it doesn't work. Baker and Jarvis Landry, great. Yeah, that one's been great. And yet, the media just can't, they're so starstruck. When about two years ago, I said, yeah, this doesn't, this is bad. Like, they're better when OBJ's hurt and doesn't play.

I can't believe. That's what the data says. Well, I, I'm not loyal to it. What do I care? Like, OBJ is not happy. I was told last year by a friend of. OBJ. He wants out. But he's being a good teammate and a good guy. He's not being disruptive. He doesn't want to get in the way. He's been a good soldier on this. But you could tell with this effort against

Pittsburgh. It's over. And so LeBron James, who's close to OBJ, he came out today and said, free OBJ. His dad, OBJ's dad, went viral video last night, blaming Baker Mayfield, which, you know, is going to get him out of the room. So in the end, it's very obviously what OBJ is trying to do. He's relying on his friends. He wants out of here. I told you last year. wants out. It doesn't work. But everybody is always so defensive in Cleveland. The Baker-Mayfield fanboys are so defensive that when you mention this, they think you're blaming Baker. I'm not blaming Baker. I never thought Dak Prescott and Des Bryant worked. I said it from the time being. I said, it's very difficult when you have a young quarterback trying to like, you know,

wants to read the entire field. You can't put the pressure of a star receiver on him. Now, Some star receivers, Larry Fitzgerald, works with everybody. I mean, Calvin Johnson works with everybody. And then there are star receivers who come with, you know, whatever. A little entitlement. They want the ball. They're more emotional. That's okay.

I like my players to be emotional. And OBJ, superstar Cleveland, Baker, learning the system. It just didn't work. But don't double down in it Cleveland. Don't get rigid on it. It doesn't work. You know it doesn't work. Cleveland's doing what got him in.

trouble in the first place for all those years. They're doubling down in a mistake. Move on. Jarvis Landry. Really good offense. This is not about a lack of talent. You can get something for OBJ. You really can. Move it. Don't get rigid. Don't double down. The other thing is, I'm not going to talk a ton about the New York Giants because they're boring and they're bad. But, I mean, the L.A. Chargers had a terrible offensive line last year and solved it in one-off season. The Giants have had a terrible offensive line for four years and their GM can't solve it. Maybe it's a GM problem.

The reality with the Giants is very simple. They're not great at anything. I'm not even sure they're really consistently good at anything. And they don't have a quarterback that's talented enough to overcome that. Aaron Rogers goes on the road in Arizona is missing his star receiver, 11 starters, defensive coordinator, and Aaron Rogers won the game. Against the great team. Well, Daniel Jones can't do that.

Daniel Jones is not talented. He's too young. He's not gifted enough to overcome average. So you're left with a couple of choices. Get a new quarterback or fire the GM. You don't want to fire the coach again, right? Like, you don't want to go through that and a new system. I've said this before.

This is why I support Matt Nagy in Chicago. You really want to give Justin Fields a bunch of new coaches in a new system in his second year? Really? Do you really want to give Daniel Jones a new coordinator, a new coach again? again? I don't think that's the answer. But you can either fire the quarterback or you can fire the GM. And I just think their offensive line, they can't figure it out. I mean, the Chargers figured it out in a year. Dallas figured out their defense in a year. They got a new defensive coordinator, and they went and drafted a great linebacker, a good defensive lineman from UCLA,

and the defense is different. I mean, the Buffalo Bills had no pass rush two years ago. Now, it's arguably the best pass rush. It shouldn't take four years to solve dilemmas. Like I understand that sometimes, like, you need corners and you only got five draft picks and a really good corner gets taken right above you. Like you can't solve every issue and you don't want to overpay for free agents. I understand that. But God, your four years, that final drive for the Giants last night, Daniel Jones,

it was embarrassing. Excruciating. It's impossible to watch. They can't block for two seconds. So, you know, I mean, what are the, I don't. think the answer with these young quarterbacks is blow the coaches out. I don't think Justin Fields is better served. How do you know the next coach is going to work?

Matt Nagy got Trubisky to the playoffs twice. The issue with Chicago is they're all lines terrible. The issue with the Giants, their all lines terrible. What coach looks good with a bad offensive line? So to me, Chicago and New York, the answer to me is upstairs. Everybody wants to fire the coach. the Giants and the Bears, how many years do these young quarterbacks have to play in front of that? That last series for the Giants was embarrassing.

It was just unwatchable. All right, the herd hierarchy on a Tuesday. We're only starting. Only starting here. Another podcast from some SNL late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman helped make you funnier. This week, my guest, S&L's Mikey Day and headwriter, Streeter Seidel,

help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win.

I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me. Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, my basketball and college football journey, or my career in sports media. Well, now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw,

unfilled conversations with athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. So let's get to it. Listen to The Clifford show on the IHeard Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok.

On the Look Back at a podcast. From 1979, that was a big moment for me. 84 was big to me. I'm Sam Jay and I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick a year, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. With our friends, fellow comedians, and favorite authors. Like Mark Lamont Hill on the 80s. 84 was a wild year.

It was a wild year. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.