The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Hour 1 - Death, Taxes, Haliburton

Episode Date: June 6, 2025

Jason McIntyre steps in for Colin after a thrilling finish to game 1 of the NBA Finals with the Pacers pulling off another furious comeback He reacts to Aaron Rodgers signing a 1-year contract with the Steelers   Guest: John HollingerSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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The Chokelohama City Thunder. They go down. Overrated SGA takes it out. Oh, ladies and gentlemen, we got a great show today. I'm fired up. I am extremely excited. What the hell he happened last night in OKC? It's me, Jason McIntyre in for Colin Cowherd.

He's back next week. I know you're geeked. I know you're excited. Cowher's back. joined as always by Alex Curry. Alex. Blum, no, no,

it's going to be a good way. Like, what a banger way to end the week. Like, holy Halliburton game winner. Your boy, Aaron Rogers finally signing with the Steelers. Like, happy Friday.

Let's go. Yeah. Let's go. I thought I was going to make the theme for today, squabble up and talk about a billionaire in the president. No. That's a no fly zone. Jay Mack.

Okay, fine, fine. We'll talk about game one of the NBA files. And guys, Listen, I could probably do 30 minutes right out the gate on that gate. It was bonkers. But the one obvious thing we have to start with is death, death, taxes, and Tyrese Halliburton. Nobody has had a clutch postseason like Halliburton has. Folks, he did this against the bucks in the opening round, the driving layup.

He did this against the calves to basically squash them in game two. and of course against my New York Knicks, Tyrese Halliburton is the man. The pull-up jumper with three-tenths of a second left gives the Pacers to win. They were 10-point underdogs on the road, and Halliburton delivers. Now, there's so many layers to this.

I will try to contain myself, but first, let's get this out of the way early. Here's the audio from the Indiana Pacers radio call of Tyrese Halliburton vanquishing the thunder. Eight seconds to go. The Pacers are not to be. going to call the time out. Halliburton has it with three, driving with two, pulling up, and hitting with three-tenths of a second to go. How many more times can this team do that? You got to love it.

You see all those OKC fans hit the surrender cobra hands on their head. What did I just witness? But here's the best part about Halliburton beating OKC last night. So Tyrese was in the Dorsey. chamber all night. Lou Dort locked him up. I'm not going to lie. Lou Dort did a tremendous job on Halliburton. And Halliburton had a quiet game. And you're like, oh, where's Halliburton?

And my guy Richard Jefferson, you know, play with me in a men's league. He's a great human being. He's talking about in the fourth quarter, hey, Tyrese Halliburton, you can't shoot tour dates, okay, in game one of the NBA finals. And Halliburton had a quiet game, but he wasn't forcing anything. And that's important because as soon as they got a chance to win, just keep it close, keep it close. OKC was going to fold.

And there is an element to OKC, and we'll get to them later. Trust me, plenty to do on OKC. But we're going to focus on the positive if you're at the outset. But there is a Mike Tyson element to the thunder, right? They want to knock you out. That's what they do.

They had the most double-digit wins. I believe in NBA history. Our guest Anthony Slater had that yesterday. Something like 61 wins by double figures. That's more than the KD Curry Warriors. They want to knock you out, but they couldn't knock the Pacers out. They were up 15 in the fourth quarter.

This game was eerily reminiscent of that choke by the thunder in game one against Denver. A lot of self-inflicted wounds, and we'll talk about the coach a little bit later. Dagdolk coached a terrible game. Only way to grade him on that was an F from the starting lineup to the closing lineup. He was awful. But I do want to focus on the positive in the Pacers here. Folks, when you look at the box score, you don't understand. It kind of breaks your brain a little bit.

Okay, Indiana averaged 12 turnovers a game. They had 24 last night. They had 18 in the first half. I mean, they were on pace for 36 turnovers. However, Rick Carlisle, who I hyped up. When I picked the Pacers 4-2 yesterday, I hyped up Rick Carlisle. I said, listen, this guy's good. Look what he did to LeBron and the Heedles. Fourth quarter, Pacers had one turnover. Early on, they could not handle the pressure. They made adjustments. Carlisle's a master. So not only did they turn the ball over 24 times, but did you see the steals in this game? 14 steals for OKC, one for the Pacers. How do you win a game like that?

Well, it's the three-point shooting. And again, this is one of the keys to victory for the Pacers. Number one three-point shooting team in the playoffs, 40%. Last night, seven more threes than the Thunder. Seven times three, 21. In a one-point game, you win threes by that much. Folks, I mean, you're looking on the screen here, that Andrew Nemhard banger? Now, some of it was luck, obviously.

But look at Nemhard, between the legs, bang right in Wallace's face. And then he did it to his fellow countryman, Shea Gildes Alexander. By the way, they got into it. We'll also talk about that. But, like, was there some flukiness? Yeah, Miles Turner ain't going to bank in threes. Right? Obie Topin turned into Steph Curry there in the fourth quarter.

But ultimately, it came down to Tyrese Halliburton. Here's Tyrese after the victory. We got to stop. And Coach, trust us in those moments to not call timeouts. Trust me in those moments. Guys trust me. And just trying to make a play. So, man, basketball's fun, man.

Winning is fun. That's a great win for us. Basketball is fun. I was watching with my kids last night. And when SGA bricks an eight-footer, yeah, the mid-range is back, right? And the Pacers get a shot. I'm watching my kids. We're all standing up.

I'm like, do I get video of myself? Do I do one of those nerds? reaction videos? Nah, no, let me just watch it. And Halliburton got the ball, and you were like, oh, there's a problem. And it's interesting because against the bucks, he drove for the layup, against the Cavs, step back against Ty Jerome, against the Knicks, Mitchell Robinson, step back three. He didn't, the thunder had scattered him.

They knew what was coming. They knew time and situation. Just a pull-up, pull-up jumper, 21-footer, bang, from Halliburton. And as soon as it went up, I was like, oh, that's cash. It's over. And he hits it. And my kids don't really know Tyrese Halliburton. You know, he's not a well-known superstar, but the legend is growing pretty quickly.

And I don't know if you guys have seen this on the internet, but there's this funny mashup, because Tyrese Halliburton is kind of different, right? He's just like a little goofy at times. He's got a funky-looking shot. He's always smiling and happy. And there's a mash-up of Tyrese Halliburton and Steve Urkel on the internet. I don't know if you guys have seen that. But Steve Urkel, of course, Family Matter is Julio White, an iconic T-GIF show.

I don't know if Alex was born at the time. I watched TGIF, you know, nerdy Jason sixth grader watching Steve Urkel. And there should be a new nickname for Tyrese Halliburton. Why not Halliburkle? Because once you see the video of Steve Urkel, remember there's one game or Steve Urkel's going off, Tyrese Halliburton kind of doing the same thing. Halliburkle, is that going to stick much more on this game later? I promise you we'll come back to it because I haven't taken my jabs at OKC and they're coming, folks.

But I do need to pivot because there was some big news in the NFL on Thursday. Our long national nightmare, mercifully, is over. Aaron Rogers is flying to Pittsburgh today to sign a contract and play for the Pittsburgh Steelers next year. It's over. I mean, we had to deal with, what, four months of reporters saying, this is the week. Aaron Rogers is probably said, no, no, not this. It's next week. I mean, you know, a guy's just whiffing all over the place

because nobody knows what Aaron Rogers is going to do. But you've got to be honest, guys. If you're a Pittsburgh Steelers fan, you have to be thrilled, absolutely geeked that Aaron Rogers waited until the very last moment possible before mandatory appearances were required to sign in Pittsburgh. You know, usually your quarterback, he's showing up in a new city, showing up with a new offensive coordinator, new wide receiver, new running,

he had a lot of newness. He wants to get in the building early. Got to hit the ground running, got to meet my guys, I'm here, first in, last out. Uh-uh. Aaron Rogers is letting you know right out of the gate.

I'm calling the shots. You guys obviously remember that great Tom Cruise movie with the Somali pirates and the guy goes, I'm the captain now. Tom Hanks, Tom Hanks, I'm sorry, Tom Hanks. This was a good. Aaron Rogers essentially saying, hey, this is my show.

Mike Tomlin, you're a great coach. Arthur Smith, I don't know how I'm going to deal with you, but I'm running the show. Aaron Rogers said, I'm signing now. Here I am. And folks, you know, I don't know how this is going to go. We got a lot of newness in Pittsburgh and our staff put together a little chart. So Najee Harris, he gone. They're number one running back.

Number one wide receiver, Pickens. He just got shipped. tight end is the same. Their number two wide receiver, he's also new. Their left tackle, Broderett Jones. He was not the full-time starter last year. Look at all this newness in Pittsburgh. If you guys are looking for a team that's going to be potentially rocky,

I think the Pittsburgh Steelers are the one. Now, we remember Brett Farrv when he left Green Bay. He had a pit stop in New York. It went great for half a season, and then, oh, he gadzooks. It totally nuked. Then he left from Minnesota, found his groove again. I mean, I think he was nearly the MVP of the league, and they lose in the conference championship game,

that fateful interception over the middle. One wonders. Aaron Rogers leaves Green Bay, pit stop in New York. Not great. Will he find the fountain of youth in Pittsburgh? I'm here to tell you that's not happening. And all this Aaron Rogers, far of comparisons, I think we're going to have to put them in the river mirror.

Yes, Rogers, incredible career. There was a time when he won the two MVP's in Green Bay. I was like, oh, he's a top five quarterback all time. He doesn't have the Super Bowls, but man, the arm strength, the stats, the lack of interceptions. I mean, Aaron Rogers is great. And then in New York, you're like, mm, hurt, not awesome, final year in Green Bay. And Mike Tomlin has this long, amazing track record of never have a losing record. I have it as 18 seasons without a losing record for Mike Tomlin in Pittsburgh.

it. That's the most consecutive non-losing seasons only behind Bill Belichick, as you can see on the screen with 19 and Tom Landry, the great Cowboys coach, are 21. Here's the thing with Tomlin. I think this is going to be the year they don't hit 500. And that's tough because it's going to reflect poorly on Aaron Rogers. I mean, remember, Tomlin has stayed 500 or better with a poo-poo platter of quarterbacks since Ben Rothensburg are retired. I'm talking, you know, some jokers out there, okay? And I'm not really feeling this Rogers vibe. We already have seen reports. Hey, man, you know Arthur Smith's personality. You know Aaron Rogers. They're going to be button heads out of the gate. Okay. Aaron, when he went to New York, they just gave him everything he wanted. Oh, you want

Randall Cobb? You want Alan Lazard? Come on down. You want Nathaniel Hock? Oh, yeah, yeah, let's do it. Steelers ain't doing that. So Rogers is now not going into a comfortable setting. newness all over the place. I'm very reluctant that the Steelers are a 500 team. This signing by Rogers, wind total didn't move. You know, it was probably baked in that he was going to sign there.

But the opener against my Jets is interesting, because it pits Justin Fields against Aaron Rogers. Justin Fields was in Pittsburgh last year. Rogers was at the Jets. The line did bump up to Steelers minus three in New York. I'm going to be headed to Vegas this weekend, and I would love to bet the Jets. I'm not going to unload the bank account, but I'm just telling you right now, that Jets pass rush, you don't think those Jets are going to be motivated to go after Rogers the way that tenure went in New York?

Folks, it's not going to be pretty for Aaron Rogers in Pittsburgh. I mean, I asked the staff, rank the quarterbacks in the division. I mean, he ain't better than Lamar Jackson or Joe Burrow. That's for sure. So at best, you've got the third best quarterback. Pro Football Focus had Pittsburgh, 21st best roster in the league. That's not great.

I don't know. This smells to me like 7 and 10. Pittsburgh and Aaron Rogers feels like it's over. All right, we have a phenomenal show ahead. And coming up next, how can the thunder bounce back in game two Sunday night? They had a lot of mistakes. I'll tell you everything that went wrong next here on the herd.

Be sure to catch live editions of the herd. weekdays in noon Eastern 9 a.m. Pacific on Fox Sports Radio, FS1, and the IHard Radio app. Hey, it's us, the Jonas Brothers, and guess what? We have some big news. What's the news, huge news? We created our own podcast called, Hey Jonas. We invented a podcast. Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to a podcast. We're the first people to do podcasts. Pretty, yeah, pretty wide range of podcasts throughout there. But this one's extra special. So how do we actually come up with the name Hey Jonas, guys? I honestly don't remember

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unhumored me with robert smigel and friends me and hilarious guests from bob odenkirk to david letter help make you funnier this week my guess s nl's mikey day and head writer streeter sidel help an acapella band with their between songs banter where does your group perform we do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The French Open is one of the toughest tests in tennis. And I know firsthand because I competed there myself.

I'm Renee Stubbs. And on the Renee Stubbs tennis podcast, I'm breaking down everything happening at Roland Garris. Every match, every upset, and what it really takes to win on clay. Genshin win. I mean, she went down at three to Rabakina, but I'm delighted. She's an outsider to win the French for me. And she likes Clay. Listen, Lena Rubakina is arguably the best player in the world right now.

And I actually can win on any surface. Because if she's serving, well, good luck. Consider this your court side seat to the French Open. Listen to the Renee Stubbs tennis podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHeart Women's Sports. Jacob Kingston grew up in an isolated polygamous sect. We were God's chosen kingdom on earth. He felt destined for greatness.

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Jacob told Levan, you're ruining my life. Listen to Kingdom of Fraud on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Back here on the herd, I will say having a game last night, extra bounce on my step this morning. Couldn't sleep last night. I was so geeked over Tyrese Halliburton Heroics. We'll have some interesting stories in a herd line coming up at about eight minutes. Okay, so I glazed, as the young kids say, Halliburton and the Pacer. So now let me take some shots at OKC.

So growing up, one of my favorite coaches in all of sports was this guy named Pat Riley. had the slick back look on the sideline with the Lakers, Armani suits. He was the man. He had a cool mantra. No rebounds, no rings. It's pretty simple, right? Rebound the basketball.

Don't get second chances. O.KC did something so stupid last night. I just, I don't know what they did here. So I even mentioned yesterday, I don't see Hartnstein playing a lot in the series. I don't anticipate a lot of double bigs. Pacers can play five out. Everybody can hit threes.

So Dagnall pulled. his starting center, Isaiah Hartenstein, and starts Kaysan Wallace. So on the surface, okay, I guess that makes sense. Here's the interesting part. They never started that five-man unit before as a starting group in the playoffs. I think it'll leave 16 games to get to the finals.

Never use that starting group once. Okay, but they still led by 15 in the fourth, right? And then down the stretch, for reasons I haven't seen a logical explanation, Dagnol pulled Chet Holmgren for Kaysan Wallace. So now you have no Hartenstein and no Chet. So what happens in the final three minutes? The Pacers go on a 13 to 4 run.

Score inside at will. Grab two offensive boards, put him back. It's like, what was he thinking? And, you know, listen, you never want to overreact after one game. I think I referenced the Alan Iverson Lakers game, where Iverson hit that shot in overtime, steps over Tyron Loo, And the Sixers win. It was a shocker.

I remember with my family, we were on a family vacation. And because school had just let out. And I was watching it at like wherever we were. I was like, oh, my gosh, are the Lakers in trouble? And Lakers steamrolled them the rest of the way. However, here's SGA after the loss. How you lose doesn't really matter. Obviously, it sucks the last second shot,

but the energy in the arena and stuff like that. But we lost at the end of the day. The series isn't first to one. It's first to four. So we have four more games together. they have three and that's just where we are. We got to understand that and we got to get to four before they get to three

if we want to win the NBA championship and it's that simple. It's not a rocket science. We lost game one. We have to be better. So the Pacers out rebounded the Thunder 5639. Plus 17 the Pacers were on the glass. Shot him out shot him from three. Now let me take a quick moment

to talk about everybody's favorite basketball player Sheigilded's Alexander. Yesterday I compared him to James Harden. I had former NBA players coming at me on social media for this take. I'm like, oh, guys, settle down. Hey, relax. Last night during the game, SGA, cooking from the mid-range.

My buddies are texting me, boy, SGA, better than James Harden, J. Mac. All right. What happened down the stretch, ladies and gentlemen? SGA bricks and eight-footer. Tyrese Halliburton comes down, Clutch City. Okay? I'm not a Tyrese Halliburton hater. I'm not.

I'm just a realist. On what planet is 40 minutes and three assists for your point card like a good game? Is he making anybody better? 38 points on 30 shots? That's not efficient, guys. He had a good scoring game for three quarters. And in the fourth quarter, he folded. He was not great.

And this is what's interesting. He was getting frustrated. Our staff came up with some numbers here. SGA, aka the free throw merchant, gets to the line like nobody's business. He could not get to the line last night. He only got to the free throw line eight times, and eight is the line of demarcation. The Thunder are four and three in the playoffs when SGA attempts eight or fewer free throws. Eight or more, they're unstoppable.

They're eight and two. One of the keys to this offense is SGA getting in your head, getting your guys, getting your guys in foul trouble. And there was a small moment in the fourth quarter. I don't know if you saw this. The announcers didn't make a big deal out of it. SGA's going against his guy, Andrew Nemhard, and you see this play by Nemhard, and he was upset.

Look what SGA does, reacts with a shove. Refere he didn't step in or anything. SGA goes to the foul line. Nemhart goes and bumps him off his spot. You like that? Boy, Nemhard is a dog. He is becoming one of my favorite guys. But this SGA moment where he shoves him,

that's the opposite of what happened in the Minnesota series. Remember Jaden McDaniels was so pissed? He just shoved SGA and then his comment afterward was like, oh yeah, you can't really foul him. I wanted to see if you could really have to shove him or whatever it was. And I just, I don't want to crush SGA. They may come back and win the series.

Thunder may win the next four. But I was talking with Shady McCoy show before us. I said, I might take Halliburton over SGA if I'm starting a team. Halliburton makes everyone better. And he's like, I don't think I could talk to you anymore, Jay Mack. And we're friends. But I'm being honest here. Tyrese Halliburton, there's something about this guy.

And I don't know if SGA, I don't want to say has that clutch gene, but people love to say, like, what is the guy's defining moment? Oh, Michael Jordan with the shot against the Utah Jazz. Magic Johnson, the hook shot against the Celtics. A lot of guys have defining shots. I mean, Tyresearch Halliburton has an entire postseason of them, right? now. Okay. Has SGA had his moment? Maybe it's coming in the series as possible. But just watching last night, he got a little frustrated. He missed a potential shot to put him up three with 11 seconds left. And all Tyrese Halliburton does his deliver. So I have some real questions about OKC. I did

pick Indiana in six. And just watching Tyrese operate when it mattered most versus watching SGA. Like, SGA is great in that Mike Tyson rule. Hey, we're going to knock you the bleep out. We're going to put you down 20. It's game over. It's laughing on the sidelines. If they don't get to that, they have had problems in close games. SGA might be time to step up in game two, buddy.

Let's go to Alex Curry with the news. This is the herd line news. Can I just say I love that you gave two final prediction outcomes yesterday, and now you're running with your money pick of Pacers and six? I think I said exactly. You set yourself up really well. You said, well, if I'm betting my money. Pacers and six.

Pacers and six. But if I'm going like, my head, your head, all the analytics. OKC, but like. OKC four, not just OKC. Yeah. It was either OKC sweep or Pacers got it. Yeah, Pacers got it. I don't see this dragging out and OKC.

No, but as you said, Holy Halliburton. Like, he's becoming a star right in front of our eyes. And everyone complained that we don't have like star power in this finals. Everyone's going to know Halliburton's name after after this series. after this playoff. I think after this playoff run. Halliburkel, you mean? No, we're trying to coin nicknames. No, it's not a...

It's not going to stick? Commander in truth. That hit hard, early in the sleep. Now it's Halliburkel. No, because that's like dorky and he's not, he's like rad. He is kind of dorky. He's in a hit song right now. What the Hallie?

Yes. Thank you. Okay? All right, let's get to our first story in the NFL and the NFC North. Kevin O'Connell has been steadfast in the support of J.G. McCarthy aimed all the different rooms. rumors surrounding the Vikings quarterback position. Now, despite all the various reports,

O'Connell, through his support behind the second year, signal caller. He's having a great spring. It goes back well beyond, you know, just the offseason program. We're pretty darn close to having a good feel for where he's at. He's had a great offseason. He's healthy, strong, throwing the ball great, fundamentals, everything you hope for in the spring. But the hardest part for NFL quarterback,

especially the younger ones, is there's no scoreboard in June. There's no way of truly knowing. So what do you do? You've got to go back to the work. I'm taking a beat here on JJ, just because, like, we haven't seen anything yet. He has not played in an NFL game.

Like, there's been a lot of talk, right? What he has going for him is that he has the quarterback whisperer as his coach and Kevin O'Connell. But what he has kind of going against him is that we heard a lot of names. quarterbacks being floated around the Vikings this off season, right, then being connected to it. And that doesn't just get, like stories don't just get kind of leaked for nothing, right? There's a reason. But they ended up not picking up a big name quarterback.

They're going all in on JJ. So now all the pressure is on you to perform really in your first season, your rookie season, as an NFL quarterback. In a really tough division in the NFC North. Schedule not awesome for them? Not as hard, not as hard as the lions. And again, I think the good thing for them is that, like, obviously the Lions have a lot of changes as well. But then Packers, Jordan Love, hopefully, like,

better season the last year, bears now. I'm trying to think, not a lot of teens have gone 14 and 3 and then dumped their quota. You know? Yeah. Yeah. Especially, like, what Sam Donald did for the Vikings last year. Also, with, like, Barrylow.

expectations and then just exceeding everybody's expectations. Now you're going to have to come up and compete against that. Like, can you give us half of what he got? We don't know. And we've heard, you know, there's some like off the field stuff that we don't know what's going on, but you just, you hope that he can be great. But again, there were conversations and there were reports that they were linked to other big name quarterbacks this offseason.

And that doesn't just happen for nothing. Okay. to the NBA. The Knicks job remains available after Find Tibbs, but one name is drawing a lot of attention. Mark Stein is reporting that New York will formally request permission to speak to Dallas Mavericks head coach Jason Kidd. Now, both of these teams kind of have messy situations right now, right? Jason Kidd was not told about the Luca trade before it happened. They do have the number one pick, so you assume they're going to get Cooper flagged. But New York isn't a clean situation either. The last coach they just fired.

I mean, Moore's coming out now, but got them to the conference finals for the first time in 25 years, back-to-back 50-plus-win seasons, took down the defending champs, but still not enough. You're out of here. But there's a couple interesting things,

like connections here, right? Jason Kidd, he coached Jalen Brunson when he was in Dallas, and his first big job was in Milwaukee with Janus, and he really helped kind of unlock Yonis. And after he got let go from Milwaukee,

Yannis actually reached out to Jason Kidd and was like, hey, is there anything I could do to help? So Yonis really likes Jason Kidd. And obviously, Janus, like, the whole conversation this off season is where does he end up? So there's just, there's some very interesting connections here. Oh, my gosh. I know. I'm just throwing a lot in the pot here. Wait a minute.

Damn it. Now I'm upset, Alex. So the Jason Kidd Yonis thing is gold. Yeah. So we mentioned Jason Kidd two days ago. Uh-huh. The days all go together. Lightly.

Lightly. How did we not. all the Yannis connection and drop it there. Yeah. Oh, that's a brick. The audience, I let you down. I should have had that. Well, that's an amazing.

If you get Jason Kidd, you just enhance your chance to get Yonis. Oh, 100%. How did I not have that one? And he is a fan of him. Like, he wanted him. He helped really unlock him. So, let's see what we could give up. Carl Anthony Towns.

I don't know if they'd have a lot of picks. Carl Lentheny Towns and Bridges is a lot. Yeah. For Yonis? Then you have Hart. OG, Janice, Brunson, and then you got to fortify the bench, I would do it. Yeah? I mean, I don't know if I don't know if the bucks would.

Yeah. But, oh, that's good. But they're asking permission. They're formally going to ask permission to pursue him. That's good. Yeah. And it's a messy, again, messy situation in both places. But he has connections to both franchises as well.

Yeah. Playing for both. So something to keep your eye on, guys. Okay, back to the NFL. Let's end in Vegas. Pete Carrow will be 74 years old when the season. season starts, but Vegas' new head coach has a youthful energy around him. And the program this off season, Raiders, defensive coordinator, Patrick Graham said he's soaking everything in that he can.

He said, I mean, anytime you get a chance to work with someone with that experience, that level of success, I couldn't be happier with the experience going on right now just in terms of being able to bounce ideas off of him. So the good thing about Pete is like he brings a culture, right? I don't, this is not like a long-term situation. He's 74 years. He's going to be 74 when the season starts. But he's a good person to create a foundation, right? And to like really get this franchise in a good place, what, over the next four or five, four years, something like that of what you can get out of them.

Push an 80. Like, if you go past that. But when you look at that division as well, you have some of the best coaches in the NFL. You got Andy Reid. Harbaugh, obviously, if he can continue on what he did. at the college level, Sean Payton, and then you have Pete Carroll. So there's a lot of really strong,

strong coaches in that division. So Pete Carroll, you said pushing 80, so after coaching the Raiders, you could just run for president, right? Is that what happens? I knew you were going to try to get that in somehow today. I got a wet. Come on.

All right, Alex Curry with the news. Well, that's the news. And thanks for stopping by. The Hurd-Lie News. Still shaken by the Jason Kid Janus thing. Oh, that was good, Alex. Coming up next, talk to a former NBA front office guy. Did the thunder choke it away last night, or was it all Halliburton?

Why the coaching moves? Talk about that next here on the herd. Be sure to catch live editions of the herd weekdays in noon Eastern 9 a.m. Pacific. Hey, it's Steve Kavino. And I'm Rich Davis. And together we're Kavino and Rich on Fox Sports Radio. You can catch us weekdays from 5 to 7 p.m. Eastern 2 to 4 Pacific on Fox Sports Radio and of course the IHeart Radio app.

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starting a trend. But this one's extra special. So how do we actually come up with a name, Hey Jonas, guys? I honestly don't remember. I think it was on a call about what we should call it. Well, we were thinking I'm originally calling it one of the early names of our band.

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When not only you do work for an NBA front office, but you created a staff. that everybody references all the time. P.E.R. Player efficiency rating. Let's bring on John Hollinger of the Athletic, one of the sharper minds in the NBA. John, good to finally talk to you, man. I was rattled after last night's game.

I'm curious, your thoughts in the moment, and now that you've had, you know, 12 hours or whatever to sleep on it. Yeah, I thought it was the most. Thank you for thinking I got 12 hours of sleep last night. This is about six times as much as I actually got. But the most shocking game one finals game since Nick Anderson, 30 years ago, right? Just the way it played out with Oklahoma City seeming in total control, and then Indiana rallying right at the end and Halliburton again at the finish.

It seemed like the Denver game. I don't know if you remember the Denver Game 1 comeback. Yeah, absolutely. This was like a carbon copy. Denver dominated the glass. Pacers dominated the glass. And then a bit of a coaching meltdown. Were you surprised, John, that he pulled Chet Holmgren with like three minutes left down the stretch, and they went no bigs?

I was not at all. I rewatch the game this morning. Chet Holmgren was terrible. So that was one of the reasons he couldn't stick with him. The other thing was he did the same thing at the end of the first half, and the Pacers couldn't even run anything against their five smalls. They just turned it over every single time. So I thought that was fine. If you look at the shots they got, the shots Indiana made those last few minutes, I think Oklahoma City lives with that.

The problem was they should have been up by 25 at the time. And they were only up eight. The game was still close enough for Indiana to get by making a couple of unlikely shots. And the Thunder missed a couple of open threes and had the lane violation on Seaccom's free throw. But those mistakes, it was possible for those to flip the game because Oklahoma City in the first 45 minutes didn't stick the knife all the way in. So that's a good point because this whole knockout punch, this Mike Tyson element that, O KC has. Usually they go up 20, 25, it's lights out.

But they got stuck around the 1315. They could not push it more than that. Is there anything the Pacers were doing to prevent themselves from getting knocked out? Was it just hustling back on defense? No transition points. What was it? Oklahoma City shot really poorly at the rim. And I think Miles Turner was a big factor in that.

When I rewatched the game, he had several really good contests at the rim. Jalen Williams shot 6 and 19. Some of them were a little rushed, but some of them were shots that I think he would be okay taken. And he just didn't get to go down. You're shown one of the worst ones there. And again, they got nothing from home grid. You're right. The points off turnovers were very low.

It was just they didn't quite get, they weren't quite the turnovers that lead to runouts just the way they happen. It's just luck of the draw sometimes with that. But I think if Oklahoma City looks back at this game, they're going to be really disappointed with their offense, and especially in the first half, that they just left money on the table. Yeah, I'm looking at, yeah, Chad Holmgren, 2 of 9, J-dub, 6 of 19. So essentially, John, they're number two and three guys,

whatever order you put those two in. They were 8 of 28, but they combined to take fewer shots than SGA. Now, I know SGA is bulletproof. You can't say anything negative about him. Everybody loves him. He's like a media darling. I didn't think he was particularly efficient. 38 points on 30 shots.

Didn't get to the line as many times as you'd expect. And he looked rattled there when he shoved Nemhard in the fourth quarter. Almost looked frustrated. I don't know. Any takeaways watching the game a second time on SGA? Yeah, I thought, again, in that first half, they were going too quick on offense, too much one-on-one, and there were some forced pulls in there.

They did a really good job of actually not letting him get all the way to the rim. He's a good two-point jump shooter. This was an outstanding finish. I had actually oversee Ackham. That was one exception to that. But it was relying a lot on his MIDI, though, which you're going to live with that. And then they were able to single cover him, too. So one of the reasons it was so much one-on-one from Oklahoma City was because Neesmith was able to just stay with Jaylon Williams. Nemhard was just able to stay with Shea, and they didn't have to bring over help defenders that much. Yeah, I noticed that 13 assists feels criminally low.

Only three for SGA. So is, again, I'm just guessing, but Rick Carlisle, a master might be saying, hey, we're going to give SGA whatever he wants. We're not going to let everybody else hit a billion threes. Do you think that might be the strategy? I think that's definitely part of it. The other thing with Oklahoma City was with them matching up small, Hartstein only plays 17 minutes.

A lot of them were with the second group. He's their best screener. He's a guy who can get Nemhard off of SGA's body, who can get knee Smith off of J. Dub. And, you know, were they too cute by half not going with Hartenstein? I know they've been going away from those two big lineups, but I just wonder, Casey Wallace ended up playing, I think, 32 minutes to Hartstein's 17. Wallace wasn't good at the offensive end either. And so I think when Mark Dingell rewatches his game, I think he's going to think

I should have gotten Hartstein in there more, and that if I was going to stay small, the other guy we didn't really see just for 90 seconds was Kenrich Williams, who played a ton when these teams played in March, and Oklahoma City blew them out. So I could see, even if he doesn't go that much more to Hartstein, I could see a lot more of Kenny Hustle

and less of Wallace, I think. All right, so you were in an NBA front office. I'm just curious, if you're having a great postseason run, your coach is pushing all the right buttons, and he comes to you before game one of the finals and says, hey, guys, I'm going to go with the starting lineup that we haven't started in this postseason. Is there going to be pushback?

Would you have said, wait, what are we doing here? Because I know it looked good for, you know, what they led for 46 minutes or what have you. It just felt like they were, we're going to adjust to the Pacers as opposed to make the Pacers adjust to us. You know, I would rather have a coach do it too early than too late, though, where the coach doesn't make the adjustment

until the team is already down 2-0 and they have one foot in the grave, which I've seen so many times that way. So I would live with that. You know, should he have maybe tried it for a half and then, you know, gone to it coming out a half-time, which he's already done a couple times in this playoffs. He started this lineup in third quarters before. So I didn't have a big problem with that.

And again, they dominated the first half. I just think they needed to get back to Hartenstein at some point, especially with the Chet having such a big. bad game. Yeah, any idea why Chet played so poorly? Is it just like, hey, you know, is his game one of the finals? He's a young guy. Him and J. Dub, I don't want to say the moment looked too big, but were they wide-eyed, or was it just the Pacer's harassment on defense? I think we have to give Miles Turner some credit for the defense he played on Chet. If you look at some of the, Chad is really effective off the dribble, usually attacking Biggs,

and he wasn't able to get anything on Turner that way. So give Miles his flowers. And he's, for that. The other thing I think, again, because there was so much one-on-one, you know, Ched is a guy who's getting his baskets in the flow. There's a pass, there's another pass. The ball kicks out to him, or he's cut into the rim. He flies in for a dunk. And those plays weren't there because it was just one-on-one and OKC shooting a jump shot. So I think schematically it kind of took him out of the game a little bit. All right. Speaking of flowers, John, let's give some to Halliburton, who is having the most plus postseason run we've ever seen in back.

I mean, it's fair to say that. He just is unstoppable when it matters most. This is a guy who was on the Olympic team, but barely played, kind of laughed about barely playing. Then he was voted most overrated in some goofy poll, I think, by the athletic. And now he is, I mean, he's a top 10 player in the league. I don't know. What's going on?

Yeah, I, you know, he was, he was dealing with that hamstring injury, the whole second half of last year. I think it carried into his summer. and then even into the beginning of this year when the Pacer started 9 and 14. And somewhere around the middle of the year, he turned into the old Halley that he was in the first half of last season, and their offense got to another gear.

And what I love about Halliburton is he's such a killer. If you look like the Cleveland game, the New York game, he tried to do it. They were down two. He went for the three to get the win. They were down one last night. He drove a little, closer and got to the pull-up two-pointer for the win. Like, he's playing to the score in these situations, too, which I think is really impressive.

That drive against Milwaukee was another one there. There you see the stepback. You see, he didn't go into the paint because he knew they were down two. If he got the three, he'd get the win. It's just been so impressive to see him do this, this whole off-season, post-season. Again, historic. Yeah. Now, obviously you're an analytics guy.

this is one of those things like, I mean, a pull-up 21-footer. I know that's probably a good shot for him, but not a great shot in the NBA currently. Is this sustainable at all? I mean, it's just a historic run. And hey, this is, who was the guy in the bubble who was averaging like 50 points a game? I'm spacing on his name. T.J. Warren. T.J. Warren. Thank you. He went off for the bubble.

It's like, oh, you've got to give this guy a max deal. Is this one of those historic runs? that Halliburton's on. Yeah, I mean, obviously, he's going to miss one of these at some point, right? Like, nobody's changed this forever. But one of the things is, like, when you're down one, the extra point of the three doesn't matter anymore. So, yeah, it's okay to dribble in and take that 21-footer then.

And I think he's really smart about playing to the score that way. All right, macro, big picture. You know, Pacers and Thunder both built differently than most of the loaded teams in the league. A lot of guys, I mean, Nemhard's making $2 million a year, and he's playing phenomenal. Do you think we'll see that transition over to the offseason when it comes time to make a play for Janus, make a play for Kevin Durant? Nobody's given five first-round picks for KD, the way McHale Bridges got five, you know? I think Yonis could easily get something in that range.

Yeah, if he becomes available, you're going to, yeah, you're going to see some crazy. I mean, KD is late 30s. He has one year left on his deal. I presume he'll get extended as part of any trade. But yeah, the market for him isn't going to be like that. Do you think that we could see Janus? I mean, somebody floated, Henry Abbott floated to me. Like, listen, Janice makes the most sense in OKC

because they have the assets and the young guys and they can afford them. I don't, I mean, we think Oklahoma City is probably going to still win the finals, but do they do something dramatic if this falls apart? I don't think that's Sam Presti's DNA at all. I think he'd run it back with these guys, make one or two deals around the edges. But this is Shay's team. I think that's too, almost too much. Like, you're building a team around Janus instead of Shea at that point.

So I don't see that happening. I think the end game for Janice is to, if he's going to leave Milwaukee, is probably San Antonio or Houston. I mean, they have the assets to do the deal. Their teams are good enough now where he's, He'd be joining a really good team. Those are the two that make the most sense to me. And what about Kevin Duran?

Is there a team out there that you, I mean, it feels like Kevin Duran's agent is just trying to get him out of there as soon as possible. He's floating the Spurs. And then we're hearing, oh, the Knicks wanted him at the deadline. Meanwhile, four months ago, nobody had that. It just feels a little suspicious, this KV stuff. I could see a fit there with Minnesota. It's a little tough with the tax aprons, but it can be done, especially if it ends up

being a three-team deal. And Minnesota did try, did at least make some effort to get him at the trade deadline. I do think they need one more elite offensive player to go with Ant. It's one of the things they miss not having towns this year. And they're definitely like a win-now team, too. So, yeah, I think Minnesota is the place for him. All right.

John Hollinger, the athletic, great stuff. Analytics Maven. Hey, you rewatch the game this morning. That's dedication, man. I probably should do that after the show. we're all sleep one of those two thanks a lot john thanks for having me on the show all right uh good stuff interesting uh takes from mr hollinger i'm trying to crystallize some of it in my head alex and think like huh why was chad homebred so so bad last night like i i mean if he's your third best

player and you're kind of benching him that's weird uh all right coming up next it's risky you know people look at me like i got two heads yeah i'm a halberton over sGA why not We'll do that next year. Probably on the hurt. Hey guys, it's us. The Jonas Brothers. I'm Joe. I'm Kevin.

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Not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and Friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes.

Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the eye, Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, I'm Deanna Maria Riva, and on my new podcast, How Hard Can It Be? I call on my Gen X squad from Ohio to Hollywood as we navigate Midlife's most fantastic BS. Unfiltered conversations from night sweats to futas to scheduling sex. Wait, what sex? Is it just me, or does every woman my age want to look at Pinterest instead of having sex sometimes?

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