The Herd with Colin Cowherd - HOUR 1 - Durant, Jackson, Mitchell

Episode Date: July 14, 2022

The NBA owners aren't happy with Kevin Durant wanting to be traded with 4 years left on his contract The Twitter feud between Lamar Jackson and Bernard Pollard Will the Knicks do what it takes to get Donovan Mitchell?   Guest: Nick WrightSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. Another podcast from some SNL, late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, S&L's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel,

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A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, my basketball and college football journey, or my career in sports media. Well, now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifers Show. This is a place for raw, unfilled conversations with athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. So let's get to it.

Listen to the Clifford show on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok's podcast network on TikTok. On the Look Back at it podcast. From 1979, that was a big moment for me. 84's big to me. I'm Sam J.

And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick a year, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. With our friends, fellow comedians, and favorite authors. Like Mark Lamont Hill on the 80s. 84 was a wild year. I don't think there's a more important year for black people.

Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Thanks for listening to The Heard podcast. Be sure to catch us live every weekday from 12 to 3 Eastern, 9 to noon Pacific on Fox Sports Radio and FS1. Find your local station for the herd at Fox Sports Radio.com or stream us live every day on the iHeartRadio app by searching Herd. You're listening to you're listening to you. Fox Sports Radio. Here we go in a Thursday. Rock and rolling, live in L.A. It's the herd, wherever you may be,

and however you may be listening. I-Heart Radio, Fox Sports Radio, F.S.S.1. Jason McIntyre filling in again today on a Thursday. I'm off tomorrow, heading to Chicago today. Going to hang out in the city. Jay Mack Howard Things. Excellent. A lot of positive reaction to yesterday's show, Colin.

People love you. People love you. Well, that's... Shockingly. It's understood. So we've got to start today's show with a term called elephant in the room. Something everybody knows is true. Nobody wants to bring it up. It's kind of uncomfortable, but we all know it's true. The old elephant in the room.

Adam Silver doesn't want it. The rest of the owners would be furious. The rest of the teams don't like it. It's not good for the NBA. But with four years left on his deal, four years left, Kevin Durant wants out. And there's really one team, one team that can give the nets virtually everything they want. It's Golden State. Six finals, eight years, just one again.

They could give you Wiseman, emerging star, young star. They could give you draft picks. They could throw in Andrew Wiggins, maybe a Jordan Poole. They wouldn't got their team. They'd have Steph and Clay and Draymond and Cominga and Moses Moody. They'd still have two of their good young stars. They'd still have some stars. and there's a lot of different scenarios.

Most teams have one way to get KD and it would hurt. The Warriors have multiple players they could give up. It wouldn't gut their bench. It wouldn't gut their emerging stars. It wouldn't gut their starting lineup. And nobody wants it. Except maybe Golden State. Brian Winhorse said yesterday, Dan Patrick's show,

it's being discussed in the bay. There's legitimate sources of the league telling me that it's a discussion. I think, first off, I think that the Warriors always believe in open throttle. The Warriors have shown that they don't care what they spend. They spent $350 million this year on this team. And the Warriors have shown that they aren't afraid to do. Like, they went out and got to rant in the first place. It says a lot about Steph Curry, that Steph was willing to subjugate to.

Durant in the past. And this has been a discussion inside the Warriors organization. Curry has been asked about it and Curry gave a non-answer. We didn't shut it down. He didn't say hell no. So the first KD Warrior experience was new. It's kind of intriguing. It was hard to take your eyes off it. Be honest. You watched it. It was kind of fun. Didn't feel fair, but it was fun. The second experience would not be the same. It's now Kevin Durant acknowledging, I need Golden State. I can't win big without Golden State. I made a big mistake.

And we live in a world that's polarizing and people like to mock and criticize those who make big mistakes. And we know Kevin Durant is sensitive. This wouldn't be new, fresh, and fun. I mean, Steve Kerr and Steph Curry and Draymond wouldn't have to tiptoe around KD to make sure he's happy.

Why? We just won without you. We don't need you. You need us. He wouldn't get the coddle treatment. By the way, the fans, are we sure everybody would love Wiggins, Wiseman, Jordan Poole gone? The media in the Bay Area wouldn't be as awestruck. They'd be more cynical this time. They'd be harder on Kevin Durant. Dude, you bailed on us.

You know the first 20 questions. Looks like you need us more than we need you. He would bristle. He'd get prickly. Why? Because that's what KD is. The first Golden State experience, The Warriors didn't have three emerging young 19, 20, 20-year-olds emerging stars.

They didn't have a comminga, a Wiseman, a Moses Moody. The fans in the Bay Area can't wait to watch. They didn't have a Jordan Poole, who, if he's not included in the trade, is another emerging star, a drafted and developed star who when Clay or Steph is off the court, he can give you 20 points. He needs shots. And what about Andrew Wiggins? It feels like not the Corps 3.

it feels like the core four. Everybody loves Wiggins. He's their most athletic wing defender right now. What if he's not part of the deal? What does his role look like? Clay Thompson took a step back the first time to give KD shots. Are we sure Clay wants to give KD more shots a second time as he's off major injuries? He's trying to redefine his career.

The media would be more cynical. The fans wouldn't be as awesome. struck, it would not feel the same. Connor McGregor and Mayweather, the first fight, it was not only interesting and intriguing, it was a great fight. I took my wife to it. I'm sitting there thinking, this is a great night of fighting. The second time, there's discussions they'd fight again, feels a little desperate,

a bit of a money grab. This would feel desperate by KD. I can't win without you. He would not be as coddled by the coach, by the media, by the fans. They could push back. And they would be right. they don't need him. It's interesting.

It is the elephant in the room, though. Golden State has the most pieces. They have draft picks, emerging stars, veteran players, and an owner willing to spend whatever it takes. Phoenix doesn't have that kind of owner. Most owners do not want to pay the luxury tax. Golden State's the only team. Doesn't matter.

They are the team that can do it. And they'd be virtually unbeatable, especially if somehow they could retain Wiggins with KD, Stefan, Clay, and Dre. Forget it. Lights out. Back-to-back titles. But it wouldn't be like the first goal round. On and off-again relationships, turbulence is just a perceived slight or argument away.

All right. So this feels like a real thing. Trades usually feel like a real thing when both people get what they want, even if what both teams get is different. Shom Sharanya, very good reporter for the Athletic, says the Knicks and Donovan Mitchell are talking. So let's talk about that for a second. Donovan Mitchell to the Knicks.

They just acquired Jalen Brunson. That would give the Knicks two small ball-centric guards who don't play defense. It doesn't make any basketball sense, but it'd be a great headline. I know, I know New Yorkers are saying, Colin, come on, man, he's from New York. Westbrook's from L.A. He's never been worse. That doesn't matter. Nobody cares where you're from.

It would feel like the Carmelo Anthony deal a little bit. You'd have to gut a little bit of the roster and a little bit of the house to bring in the chandelier, right? You'd have to get rid of some of your draft picks. You'd have to get rid of maybe an R.J. Barrett. But it would make you more relevant. And Utah is trying to stockpile picks. So both teams would get something. And right now, New York is mostly second tier in New York.

The Mets are fascinating. The Yankees are great. Brooklyn's always in the headline. The Jets, regardless of what last year looked like, there's a lot of optimism around the Jets. The Knicks, not that interesting. They want to dominate the back page, and it's a great basketball city.

And this is the reality of big markets in sports. If you look at most of the really well-run teams, many of them are not big market teams. but in New York, in Chicago, in Los Angeles, slow rebuilds, hard to buy in. L.A's got two NBA teams, two baseball teams, two NFL teams. I got options. I got a beach. You notice where some of the big rebuilds are happening?

Utah, San Antonio, Oklahoma City. Memphis was on one pre-Jah Morant. You can do that in those cities. people have fewer options. But this is a business. And sometimes in these big cities, you get lost fast. The baseball teams in New York are humming.

You may have the best American league team and the best national league team. The nets are always in the headline. There's a real possibility. They won't be able to move Kyrie or KD so they're coming back with Simmons. That's going to be fascinating. Could be a mess, but it'll be interesting.

And I actually think the Jets will be fun to watch this year. So, you know, and also think about this, the Knicks are getting lost among other big cities in the east. The Celtics are good. The Sixers are good. Nicks. I mean, the Nets are talented. The Knicks, none of the above. So they've got 11 first round picks from 2023 to 2029.

Donovan Mitchell Nicks. Utah's in a rebuild. Knicks are trying to be relevant. It kind of feels like it would work. Chris Broussard talked about it yesterday. They could offer RJ Barrett. They've got 11 first round picks over the next seven years. Other teams have better players to offer.

And so that's what you have to weigh. But he's not Donovan Mitchell. The thinking is maybe he could get to that point or close. Donovan's from the New York area, upstate New York and Westchester. He would embrace the garden. The Knicks should go all in. in, Colin, on trying to get this done. I don't think it makes a ton of basketball sense to have Donovan and Jalen Brunson, both undersized,

neither much defensively. 55 million combined salary eats up most of that. But again, those 11 draft picks, this is New York City. You got options. You can do this in OKC. You can do this in Salt Lake City. I don't think you can continue to sell the future when you're charging $300. for a decent seat in a recession as the market tumbles,

inflation, uncertainty, chaos. Hey, can you pay 300 bucks a seat? Nobody cares about draft picks. They would care about Donovan Mitchell. Be sure to catch live editions of the herd weekdays in noon Eastern, 9 a.m. Pacific on Fox Sports Radio, FS1, and the IHeart Radio app. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games.

Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

A win is a win. A win is a win. Yep, that's me. Clever Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skisks. hits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show.

This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to The Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok.

Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tap little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do with a little Kim? Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick a here, unpack what went down,

and try to make sense of how we survived it. Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill, waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 is big to me, not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack on day, but just so you're just so you. y'all know. I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack. So I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now. So, oh. Thank you for finishing that sentence. Yes. I don't think there's a more

important year for black people. Really? Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hardway with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kear Games. And in recognition of Mental Health Awareness Month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking.

Tripp Fantine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing, and we're still chasing it, and we don't know when we've done enough. Because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses.

Steve Burns, Dustin Ross, because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on Earth, or are you a good person because you're afraid? Because that's two different intentions, bro. Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person. Join me, Kear Gaines, is we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, learn the hard way.

Open your free iHeartRadio app. Search Learn the Hardway and listen now. You're now entering the No Bull Zone, sponsored by Credible, great rates. None of the Bull. When you're in the media and you criticize Labar Jackson, you get pushback. I didn't have them in my top 10 quarterback list earlier this week. What's going on? What's going on is that two years ago, Joe Burrow, Justin Herbert, and Kyler Murray weren't this great.

People have replaced him. Many of the young AFC quarterbacks, I think, are better. that's why he's out of my top 10. There's also a truth about Lamar. He has struggled playing from behind and he struggled in the postseason. These are truths, not just narratives. And as wide receivers have more value, as wide receivers now make significantly more money than they made just five years ago, receivers want to play for the best quarterback.

So last night there was an ugly, ugly spat on social media. I didn't hear about it until this morning. but a Pollard, Bernard Pollard, a very good defensive player, played with the Ravens for years, part of a team that won a championship, went on social media and said, no top receiver is going to come there while Lamar's there. Plenty of receivers been available to get in the offseason, but when Lamar's starting, nobody wants to go there.

They give him respect, but they don't want to play with him. L.J. is good. Lamar is good. He's not able to make the throws. Now, Lamar fired back. It went on for a long time, supposedly. I didn't follow it, just read about it briefly this morning. Lamar went back, ripped him. But it's interesting. This is the new NFL. Receivers now, many of them are making quarterback money.

That was not the case even five years ago. It definitely wasn't the case 10, 15 years ago. But Debo Samuel. There are multiple reports. He's not sure if he wants to play. People say he likes Jimmy G because Jimmy G gets him the ball. He doesn't know if Trey can get him the ball. OBJ, very unhappy with Baker.

incredibly happy with Matt Stafford. Stefan Diggs wanted out of Minnesota and Kirk Cousins. He wanted as a deep threat, a big-armed quarterback. He got Josh Allen. Devante Adams left Green Bay. I contend it's not just about going home. It's that Aaron Rogers acknowledged to him, I may retire in a year or two.

And if he signed a long-term deal, the end of it, he'd be playing with Jordan Love. These wide receivers know to get the big bag. They're all well-compensated, but to get the big bag. Stefan Diggs money. You need a great quarterback. You need volume catches.

And this is now, I like Lamar. But what Bernard Pollard said, remember, Hollywood Brown left his number one receiver. And many speculate, Hollywood Brown just did not think he could get the big numbers with Lamar. Lamar likes to throw to tight ends a lot, especially on big third downs with pressure. And so whether or not some would argue Hollywood Brown, it was the offense, it wasn't Lamar, period, he left.

I don't think Hollywood Brown is leaving Patrick Mahomes. I don't think he's leaving Josh Allen. I don't think he's leaving Matt Stafford. He left Lamar and they were supposed to be friends. So even Tyree Kill, amazing with Mahomes. We think it will work in Miami with Tua. So I do think there is. a sense now that certain quarterbacks in this league are ascending.

Herbert's ascending and Kyler is ascending. Burrow is ascending. And I think there's a feeling around the league, fair or not, maybe Lamar's no longer ascending. Plateaued, book on him. Receivers now, you look around this league at some of these contracts. It's like quarterback money. And to get the big bag and who doesn't want that, right?

like D.K. Metcalf this morning. I'd be thinking to myself, okay, Pete, you want a tank? I want a quarterback. Get me Jimmy Garapolo. And if I'm D.K. Metcalf, I'm concerned about my production. There's no Russell Wilson, one of the best deep ball throwers in the league. Of course receivers worry about that.

They should worry about that. NFL careers are short. Guys want to get paid. I defend an NFL receiver when losing a star quarterback or a star quarterback who's maybe not ascending. So it's a story. It's something, it's real, and it was all over Twitter last night. J. Mack with the news. No, no, no, no, no.

Turn on the news. This is the herd line news. All right, Colin, let's start with the Arizona Cardinals. Reports are the off-season drama between Kyler Murray and company. Seems to be a thing of the past. Everybody's now expecting Kyler Murray to show up at training camp on July 26th. Now, Colin, that's obviously big. No DeAndre Hopkins to start the season.

and as you said, Hollywood Brown, the new receiver. Colin, what kind of deal do you expect here for Kyler Murray? I mean, is he going to get the Deshawn Watson deal? Probably not, but is he going to get something more in line with Dak Prescott? Kyle Murray, by all accounts, has been a top 10 quarterback last season. Well, there's nothing on the market like him. Okay. We saw this franchise when they didn't have a quarterback.

So I think he's going to get compensated to the highest levels. Now, he doesn't have, you know, before Mahomes got the best. big deal. Patrick had some playoff success. So I wouldn't pay him that money, but I think he's going to be, I don't even know what the current rate is. What is it? Forty million dollars a year. It's about 40 million. Yeah. I think you're going to get that. Yeah, he's not getting Josh Allen money, right? You know, is he any less important than Josh Allen is for the bills? Remember, don't just give me numbers and talent. Is Kyler Murray any less important to Buffalo than Josh, than to Arizona than Josh Allen is? The answer is no. He's not. He's not. He's not,

He's not less important. Now, Mahomes a little different because Andy Reid wins with everybody at quarterback. Now, he wins Super Bowls with Mahomes. So Mahomes has great value. But if you look at this, Kyler Murray, there's no proof now in that tough division. People feel it's more Kyler than it is Cliff Kingsbury. So we don't know if he's a great coach. We think it's a good roster.

So, you know, I see people get paid all the time in media and sports. It comes down to this. How important are you to the franchise? Arizona is a mess in that division without Kyler Murray. They could find another coach. They could find other receivers. There's no Kyler on the market. None of those college guys next year.

No, no. I don't think they're nearly as talented. I like Stroud, right? He's really good. Like him. But he's no, Kyler Murray. He's not Kyler Murray. All right, let's get to the second story here.

Your guy, Kyrie Irving, opted into his contract with the Nets next season. Reports swirling the team could move him. According to the New York Post, Kyrie has not made a request to be traded. He intends on putting air quotes. around that, intends to, you know, stay in Brooklyn with or without Durant. Colin, I told my wife this week, I intend to go to Vegas and be on my best behavior. You know, what are the chances Kyrie plays for the Nets next season?

Listen, there's, there doesn't appear to be much of a robust market for either. And so, you know, I will say this. The Nets have in my lifetime not been very interesting. They have been our talking point for most of the last three weeks. I think they want to do the KD deal first. but Kyrie's got no... Kevin Durant, there is a market for him. There's just an inability to get enough to the nets

to make the deal outside of Golden State. With Kyrie, there's no market outside of the Lakers. There is just literally... Do you think a team would say, let's rent Kyrie Irving, the same we... The Raptors rented Kauai Leonard for a year, won a title. Maybe we can work it out with Kyrie,

or is he too off-kilter and a little spotting is showing up? If I could get one year from him and not gut my roster, I don't think that's insane. If I was the Clippers, for instance, and I don't have to gut my roster, I can give you. Would you give up Paul George for Kyrie? No, I couldn't. Paul's a way better defender. Paul does everything better, yeah.

No. But there are teams out there that I think, I think Kyrie maybe has gotten to the place where he's going to be a rent-a-player. Like, that is what he is now. That's his reality. Going forward, yeah. All right, final story, Colin. College football. We all love it.

Yesterday, Bruce Feldman was fantastic. Today, we got story out of Mike Gundy and the Big 12. Texas and Oklahoma have announced their leaving for the SEC, but both schools have still been involved in Big 12 business meetings. Kind of odd. Of course, the departure won't happen until 2025, but Oklahoma State head coach Mike Gundy thinks both schools should sit out the meetings. They're still in the conference, but I'm guessing when they leave,

they're scratching down things that can help them when they're in the SEC. I think there's a business side of it now that people say, it is what it is. 10 years ago, they might not even let them in the meetings. I say that jokingly. But if you're strategically in a business meeting, I don't want somebody from their company in my company. This is kind of an awkward situation.

It's one of those, hey, you ain't got to go home, but you got to get up out of here. Like, just leave our meetings. We don't need you. What do you think? You think Texas and Oklahoma should be in there? Well, I think it's an interesting point. I mean, the bottom line, if you're in the PAC 12,

USC bailed on you in UCLA strategically, there's things, there's absolutely things. If I ran the PAC 12 of the Big 12, and there are things I'm thinking about in the next five years, I'm absolutely calling people who are going to be in my conference in five years. So you're forcing me as a commissioner of the PAC 12 or the Big 12. You're forcing me to have phone conversations you're not included in. There's obviously things I don't want Texas and Oklahoma to know strategically for television contracts and business.

So Gundy's point is not that far off. When you're leaving your business for a rival business, they escort you out of the building like same day, right? You got to get out of there. It just doesn't make sense, Colin. J-Mack, with the news. Well, that's the news. And thanks for stopping by.

The herd-line news. Well, this doesn't happen very often. First of all, we never get Nick Wright twice a week, but we never ever get Nick Wright twice a week in studio. And I never, in the week that I get him twice a week, Get to go out, drink wine, and eat food with him in between the two times he's on the show. But that happened last night, and it's happening again today. Nick Wright joining us on the set.

It is great to have Nick in, who is dressed for success. Last night was fun. Yeah, this morning, wasn't buddy. I mean, it's a 2.30 in the morning meeting for me. And you had me, I mean, you know when I knew last night was off the rails? when you started gifting my wife take home bottles of wine

when she wasn't even there and then some adoring fans came up to Colin and Colin started pouring them glasses of wine. I'm like, okay. It went off the rail. It was a great time, but a wonderful time, you know, Colin Coward just holding court in Beverly Hills. But my God, man, when the alarm

went off this morning, I considered my first time, you know, I've been at FS1 for six, over six years now. I considered having my first call-in-sick day. Haven't called in sick. I was trying to break your old streak of like 13 years. But I almost called in. But all the same.

It's good to see you again. Well, we both love the NBA. You're very passionate about it. But I said, the elephant in the room is that we all know there's one team that would not have to get their franchise and get KD. And it's the Warriors. They could give them draft picks, pool, Wiggins. You may not even have to include Wiseman.

Everybody else would got the franchise. It's uncomfortable. You're going to get some disillusionment upstairs, executive suite. Golden State, no. You could say, listen, we got the most we're going to get out of Wiggins. We'll give you a wiseman. We'll give you two draft picks. We'll throw in Jordan Poole.

And it would probably engineer a drive better than anybody else could do it. Adam Silver wouldn't like it. The owners wouldn't like it. I don't think it's good for the players in the next CBA. It is a weird situation, Nick. Here's the other thing. Let me ask you this. Is it good for the Nets?

And here's what I mean, because I do think he's getting traded. but one of the, like, and if they get Wiggins, then they have to trade Ben Simmons, because you can't have both of them because that stupid rule. If you are trading Kevin Durant, can the best piece you get back be Jonathan Cominga or Jordan Poole? I don't think it can be. I don't think, I think when the net survey the landscape, they must be getting back at least one, no doubt, blue chipper. When the Pelicans traded Anthony.

Davis. They got back. The number two pick of the draft, Brandon Ingram, the number two pick of the draft Lonzo Ball, and multiple draft picks, one of which was already locked in as the number four pick of that year's draft because the Lakers got lucky in the lottery. The draft

picks you're going to get from the Warriors are going to be objectively terrible because they're going to have Steph and Kevin Durant on the team. So there's going to be draft picks 28, 2930. I know everyone's talking about this like, oh, should KD want to do it? Should Steph want to do it? Should the Warriors want to do it? If I'm the nets. I cannot have, wait, so the best piece I got back is comminga, who's like the,

right now looks like the ninth best player in last year's draft. I don't know. I think that's the real hurdle is I don't think it's enough for Brooklyn to get back for Kevin Durant with four years on his deal. So the Donovan Mitchell deal, as you know, both New York baseball teams are on fire. The Jets, there's a lot of buzz. Some of it because of Zach Wilson's social life. The Brooklyn Nets, if they can't engineer this trade. I thought we might have saw Zach at that place. We were at last night. Go ahead.

He may have been there. The Nets are in the headlines. This is New York City. L.A., Chicago, New York. These six-year rebolds don't work. There's too many things to do. I mean, you're a sportscaster. Any weekend, you could fill your calendar with things to do.

It's not the case in Salt Lake City. The Jazz game Saturday night is what you and your wife think about. Friday night, we're going to the jazz tomorrow with the kids. Right. Same in Oklahoma City. Maybe same in Memphis. Nothing against Memphis. That's a fun town. So it's, I do think even though basketball-wise with Jalen Brunson, it doesn't make a ton of sense. Two ball-centric guards that don't defend, they're small.

But in a weird way, it makes you relevant and interesting. And I think for big market teams, this remains a business. I agree with that. My question is how relevant and how interesting after the initial glow of it. Like, did you feel the Knicks were super relevant and super interesting during the Mello era? Because I didn't. They were there. They weren't a lapping stock, but they also got past the first round once. If the Knicks added Donovan Mitchell this week, and by the way, I know it looks like the deal is going to get done,

but there have been a couple constants in the NBA the last decade. One is the Knicks coming close, but not getting the superstar. And the other is Danny Aange almost making the trade. and then ah, they couldn't meet my price. Well, now those two things are on a collision course together. Danny Ains is the one trading Donovan, the next is the one trying to acquire him. So I think there's a chance doesn't get done. But if it does get done, how good are you?

Like, are you better than the Raptors? Probably. The calves? Yeah, I think so. The Bulls, sure, give it to them. The Hawks, that's close, Dejante Murray. But that still didn't get you out around one. Four teams make it out around.

one. I'm going to give you five names. The Nets, as long as they have KD still, which at the moment they do. The Sixers, the Celtics, the Bucks, and the heat. That's five. For the Nicks to make round two, they've got to be better than two of those teams. Not just one of them, two of those teams. So I just, how much does, okay, we're no longer a laughing stock, what does that get you? And is it worth, you know, Knicks picks are not Warriors' picks. Knicks' down the road are really valuable because you're the Knicks. So I don't know. I understand why they want to do it and I get, you know, Donovan's dad works with the Mets and he's

from the area and he seems to be interested in playing for the team. But to me, you know, the snarky headline would be league's 19th best team gets league's 19th best player. Like I'm not sure if that's a huge needle mover in like in the macro. generally we acknowledge and we do it with some gusto who the best player is. We embraced Magic. I'm so glad we're talking about this. We embraced Shaq.

We embraced Jordan. People acknowledged LeBron. I mean, we all, it's a laughing stock. He only won like three or four MVPs. He's been the MVP for like 14 to the last 16 years. We're a little uncomfortable with Janus. We would never consider saying, listen, Rashid Wallace would be better than Matt. Magic, Bird, Jordan, Kobe, Duncan.

Yet we're very comfortable saying, I think Rashid Wallace, who averaged 14 points a game and was a walking technical foul, he'd be better than Janus today. And I think myself, we would never do that with the clear best player in the league in my lifetime. It's bananas. And it's one thing for old timers to do it. It's another thing for Iguodalo, who's a contemporary, who Yannis has been, you know, take.

his and everybody's lunch money for the last five years. So I really want to break this down. First of all, the way you set it up is correct. Saying Rashid Wallace would be better than Janice is not saying, because he said, he's like, yeah, he'd be a top five player. He'd be better than Janus. Being better than Janus does not make you a top five player.

Janus is clearly head and shoulders the best player in the league. No question. It is not a debate. He is arguably the single best defensive player in the sport, and he damn near wins the scoring title and does it at the best efficiency in the sport. And may have the best disposition in the league.

Oh yeah, and Intangibles is perfect. And by the way, I watched his note, knee get blown out, and he missed one week and then came back and averaged 35 the rest of the finals. He's a unicorn as a body. Watched it happen, okay? So if you're saying a guy is better than would be better than Janus, you are saying

Rashid Wallace would be head and shoulders the best player in the NBA. I do have massive respect for what Rashid did. That 04 Piston team doesn't win the title without him. And in today's era, where you have more stretch four, stretch fives, his game maybe would fit even more. But however, there is not a single era in NBA history where Rashid Wiles will be the best player in the league. Give me a break. Much less right now, he'd be better than Janus. So that that part is just a terrible take by Aguadala. Now to the Janus disrespect thing. This is where what's the word?

It's almost like how big your bag is, not money-wise, but like, oh, Kevin Durant's always talking about, oh, do you have a hezzy jimbo, like a hesitation jump shot, is over has become so overrated, and your impact on the game has become underrated. And this is the similar to me, a first cousin of the folks that will swear to their dying breath,

Kobe Bryant was better than LeBron James. And it's like, well, LeBron did, literally everything better. He even scored more and shot three's better if you actually, you know, look at the numbers. But yeah, but he didn't have the array of moves. He would just put his shoulder down and get to the basket. It's such a dumb basketball complaint. No one would ever say that about Jim Brown. Be like, well, yeah, I mean, he wins MVP's and he leads to league in rushing and touchdowns, but he doesn't do it gracefully. No, he just runs through you. Janice is such a supreme athlete.

He's unstoppable. And people want him to do it with more finesse. I don't understand it. Or more flair. Right, correct. And it'd be one thing if his lack of a bag held him back. It's like, yeah, well, it looks great until the playoffs. The guy scored 50 to win the title.

Scored 50 in the NBA finals. Three people who ever scored 50 in a finals game. Michael Jordan, LeBron James, and Janus to win the title. I think his lack of a bag hasn't hurt him too bad. So yeah, I don't understand why there isn't. Because this used to also happen with him. Whenever there would be a huge night from an NBA superstar, like a really huge night,

you would see other NBA superstars take to Twitter and like do the, you know, the do off of the cap. LeBron would tweet out like the chef emoji, if it was curry, guys would do that. And guys didn't seem to want to do it for Janus. It's almost like they, and remember Hardin did the, yeah, I'd like to be big and strong and be able to, you know, run and jump over people.

It's surprising that it's still happening after he won finals MVP, and I think they would have won the title this year if Middleton doesn't get hurt. It's a bizarre thing. Well, cool matters in the NBA. Flair matters in the NBA. Michael Jordan had more glamour. He was the best-looking guy, the best dress guy. He had the most flare in his game.

If you really break down numbers, LeBron's a better player. He really is other than just pure scoring mid-range jumper. But I don't think LeBron's cool. I just think he's unbelievable. He's the Swiss Army knife of the league. Michael was cool. The shoes were cool. The earrings were cool.

He's a great-looking guy. His dress was cool. And he was great. A lot of that argument gets swayed. I've said this about Mahomes. And we both love Mahomes. Mechanically, for a month to six weeks every year, he kind of goes off the rails. Josh Allen was off the rails entering the league.

You get the same guy every weekend, unless it's a Norie. Easter. Sure. With Mahomes, you don't. Andy's valuable to him. You got to tweak him constantly. Kyler Murray throws the same ball every week. So does Russell.

But Mahomes is cool. His commercials are cool. He's cool as a guy, the sidearm stuff. Mahomes, even if Alan surpasses him, it will be hard to surpass him as the most beloved quarterback. Aaron Rogers still gets votes over Brady. He's cooler than Brady. Well, at least he used to be. Now Rogers might have gone off the rails too.

but there is that element to it. And it's just, I am constantly amazed by folks that we, because Iguodala could be a head coach today. Iguodala is brilliant. That was his role for the Warriors, was coach. Yeah. I would think those guys would appreciate, particularly appreciate, for what he does on the defense event.

Yeah. It's just, even if Janice was a 20 point per game guy, instead of a 30 point per game guy, he'd be a top 10 player because he is such a magnificent defensive player. And for him to have mastered both things and still people, like, take little subtle shots, it's baffling. More with Nick in a second. Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays in noon Eastern 9 a.m. Pacific. Hey, it's me, Rob Parker.

Check out my. weekly MLB podcast Inside the Parker for 22 minutes of pipe and hot baseball talk featuring the biggest names and newsmakers in the sport whether you believe in analytics or the I-test we've got all the bases covered new episodes drop every thursday so do yourself a favor and listen to Inside the Parker with Rob Parker on the IHeart radio app or wherever you get your podcast imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games.

Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me, Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show.

This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, And the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream,

this is right where you need to be. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tapped Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do with Little Kim?

Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick a here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill, waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 is big to me, not just because. of crack. I'm down to talk about crack on day, but just so y'all know.

I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack. So I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now. Thank you for finishing that sentence. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really? Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history.

Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hardway with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kear Games. And in recognition of Mental Health Awareness Month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking, Tript Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing. And we're still chasing it. And we don't know when we've done enough. Because people scoreboard watch.

Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross, because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth? Are you a good person because you're afraid? Because that's two different intentions, bro. Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person.

Join me, Kear Gaines, as we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, learn the hard way. Open your free, our heart radio app, Search learn the hard way and listen now. Nick Wright, first things first. Also has a new podcast.

What's Right with Nick Wright? New episode, Sunday, Tuesday, Thursday. All right, so we talked hoops. Let's go to the NFL. We're on the precipice of camp starting in about a week, week and a half. So you like doing tiers. I do too. I do top 10 lists.

You do tiers. So, Mahalms, I know where Mahomes going to end up. Yeah. I watch the games. I have a brain. He should be number one. Go ahead. Okay, whatever.

So now I give you props for the courage to put Herber in the second tier without a playoff appearance, because I do think he's an unbelievable talent, Alan Herbert. Then you go Brady Stafford, Burrow. It tickles me that you have Rogers no better than Dak. That is fascinating. Here's my bone of contention. Oh, your beloved Russell Wilson? So Russell Wilson is, according to you, not only not better than Matt Ryan, he's worse than Dak.

Please explain. Okay. So here's the thing. Everyone's like, oh, you're not getting credit for winning. Super Bowl, I don't have Joe Namath on here either. Well, you're not playing. Okay, so here is a challenge to the audience that thinks I'm crazy about Russell Wilson.

Find me your favorite Russell Wilson playoff moment that has come in the last seven years. You can't. The last time Russell Wilson had a great playoff moment, it was mid-Obama second term.

We're talking about, it was February of 20, the Super Bowl that they lost was his last great playoff game. And so what do I get with Russell Wilson? Just tell me at this point in his career other than a bunch of YouTube content. Now listen, you're a content creator.

I know you respect that. He's got a lot of views, a lot of followers on TikTok, I'm sure. But what do I get with Russell Wilson? I get a lot of ghost huddles when the cameras just happen to be out there and he's showing everybody. What do I get? Tell me, what has he done in the last

five years that screams, oh, that's a got to have top 10 quarterback. What? A 70-year-old defensive head coach, a suboptimal roster, and he has literally carried them to the playoffs in Seattle's what, last eight of their last nine years. Yeah. And his numbers have not eroded. The Seahawks defense has plummeted to an eyesore. So Russell's lack of playoff greatness is because he's had to be a life preserver for a sinking ship that is rotated through coordinators on the offensive side, has now finally moved off a defensive coordinator,

they're still in a roster rebuild, now they're tanking without him. Yeah, and the other, and he still, though he did have D.K. Metcalfe and he did have Tyler Lockett, and yet he did seem decade into his career to still just want to throw the same passes. He says he loves the lollipop deep ball down the sideline, ignores the middle of the field entirely,

and is not as escapable as he once was. Like, listen, Since the Super Bowl, three playoff victories, all in round one. They came against the Lions. Doesn't count. It's against the Lions. It came in the Blair Walsh game where Blair Walsh missed that 20-yard field goal. And the game against the Eagles, where Wince got hurt on the first play,

and they beat him a count, brother. And even in that game, they scored 17 points. Like, the thing with Russ has always been at, the numbers aren't eye-popping, but he wins. But he doesn't want anything relevant in seven years. So, no, I'm comfortable with him. Can we go back to the tiers for a moment? Because I think the four best quarterbacks in football this year are going to be the four young guys. I think Mahomes, Alan, Herbert, and Burrow.

I think the Herbert, if he had gone a long time without making the playoffs, then I would hold it against him. Two years into the league, most yards ever through two years, most touchdowns ever through two years, most 300-yard games ever through two years. I think he is a superstar. And by the way, that should counteract some people like, oh, Nick, your anti-risk is in the AFC West. No, that's not it. Herbert's in the AFC West, I think he's going to be sensational. Do you have a problem with me having Trevor Lawrence there? No, I think he's a mega talent.

If you told me today, I think he's an absolute mega talent. And if you meet him in person, you're blown away with him. He gives me everything I want. Thank you. He's a huge talent. And you can't, pedigree must matter when they are this young. When you were, the guys on first things first give me a hard time when I say this, but it matters when you're this young.

when you were the best player in the country in high school, I care about that. When you were one of the best collegiate players I have ever seen, I care about that. And when you were playing in, let's call it a very difficult situation last year in Jacksonville, I am going to say, well, hey, I saw Peyton Manning lead the league in interceptions and win three games as rookie year, turned out okay for him. I saw Drew Bledso's struggle as a number one pick his rookie year. I saw Eli be awful as a rookie. I saw Carson Palmer be awful as a rookie.

The talent ended up winning out. So I believe in Trevor Lawrence. I believe in more than any of the second year quarterbacks. You have Aaron in an interesting spot. I'll give you 30 seconds on Aaron. We tend to not talk about leadership. There's always one glaring issue with Aaron. He's not good trailing late.

He's got a Spartan number of come from behind wins for his years. Well, I just, you, I think the two MVP's the last few years actually hurt him in my eyes. Because to be the best player in the league, hands down for two straight regular seasons, and then for two straight post seasons, be nothing close to that. Now at his age, I think it's fair to knock him. I know we have 20 seconds. I want to say one thing real quick. We're coming up on five years of doing first things first.

That show and this entire career and this nice vacation, I'm about taking my family onto Hawaii, none of it's possible without your friendship and your help. And I love you and I appreciated dinner last night. You're a great friend. No matter what I say to America, he's a great man. He's kind of a bad takes, great man. I've heard, buddy.

Another podcast from some SNL, late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter.

Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year.

Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app. Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. On The Look Back at it podcast. For 1979, that was a big moment for me. 84 was big to me. I'm Sam J.

And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick a year, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. With our friends, fellow comedians, and favorite authors. Like Mark Lamont Hill on the 80s. 84 was a wild year. It was a wild year. I don't think there's a more important year for black people.

Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, my basketball and college football journey, or my career in sports media. Well, now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifers Show. This is a place for raw, unfilled conversations with athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard,

but celebrated. So let's get to it. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok's podcast network on TikTok. This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed human.