The Herd with Colin Cowherd - HOUR 1 - Durant, NFL, Lakers

Episode Date: February 16, 2022

Kevin Durant is a difficult teammateThe game seems to be passing Mike McCarthy byeThe issues with the LakersGuest: Nick Wright Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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or the practicality and corporate business sense of the Sith rule of two. Listen to stuff to blow your mind on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Thanks for listening to The Heard podcast. Be sure to catch us live every weekday from 12 to 3 Eastern, 9 to noon Pacific on Fox Sports Radio and FS1. Find your local station for the herd at Fox Sports Radio.com or stream us live every day on the iHeartRadio app by searching Herd. You're listening to Fox Sports Radio. Ah, it is a Wednesday. We are live in Los Angeles.

It's sunny again, low windy yesterday and cold. It's the herd wherever you may be, and however you may be listening. I'm your local L.A. Weatherman, every day giving you updates on Eni Little Wind that enters our town, our city. Sky Bannister. Sky Bannister. It is great to be in Greg Kosell. Wrapping up the Super Bowl, what the tape set on the Bingles and the Rams in one hour from now. Can't wait for that.

Joy Taylor is joining me. Nick Wright stops by today. You know, getting along, we had a bunch of family over last night. It was really fun. All sorts of kids. We had a big discussion, politics, life, societal issues. I mean, everything. We talked vaccine. There were some funny, funny moments with the family, a lot of disagreements.

But getting along is a skill. It is. Right? It absolutely is. You have to work on it. And I'm reading this story today. Joy on Kevin Durant and James Hardin. They didn't like each other.

They didn't work at it. So I want to start with that. So I'm reading this story that James Harden got traded because Kevin Durant wanted him traded. And they didn't work out unless they were forced to work out together.

There was a lot of eye rolling. James Hardin rolling his eyes at Kevin Durant. Durant didn't appreciate Hardin didn't think he was in the best shape. So once again, Kevin Durant doesn't get along with a great teammate. So he didn't get along with Westbrook, who, by the way, for all his faults,

is usually well-liked by teammates. He didn't get along with Steph Curry, which is virtually impossible. Everybody in the league likes Steph Curry. He didn't get along with Draymond Green at the end. Again, very likable guy. I know Draymond, really likable guy. He didn't get along with James Hardin now.

And by the way, and I don't blame him on this one. He and Kyrie Irving don't talk much. Steve Kerr told somebody I know privately a couple years ago that coaching KD is walking on eggshells. Now I think it's going to work with Kyrie Irving and Ben Simmons. It's not going to work. Remember a couple years ago we found out that Kevin Durant had a burner account?

Never met anybody with a burner account? Isn't that kind of weird? It's kind of secretive. It's kind of non-confrontational. You want to say things, but you don't have the guts to say them to people. Kevin Durant had a burner account. I think he's just so talented that GMs and coaches and owners have always tried to appease him. But in the end, he's always left on an island.

I'll give you an example. Let's think about some big winners. LeBron James. They all do it differently. LeBron's way is I'm going to control everything. I'm going to be like a de facto GM, a coach on the floor. LeBron is very much into, I got this, put you on my back, a lot of responsibility. I got that.

That's LeBron's way to do it. Now, Michael Jordan didn't want to be the GM, but he would punch you if he didn't agree with you. Like, he was very confrontational. Kobe Bryant had some of that. Steph Curry is, let's all get along. I'm going to let the coach coach GM, GM, but he's going to facilitate a lot of different communication. Steph is like, let's get along, everybody. What does Kevin Durant do?

He doesn't really ever facilitate. He's not willing to take the responsibility of the GM, put you out on your back, like LeBron. want to do that. He's not goody, goody get along with everybody like Steph. He's not going to punch anybody. I mean, he had a Twitter account that was a burner. He's not confrontational like Jordan or Kobe. So he always ends up being sort of on an island. Like every place he's at. And once again, what is he? On an island. With Ben Simmons, who's aloof and Kyrie Irving, who's a little odd. His whole career, he's on an island guy. And what happens is he gets to the playoffs and he's just going to do it himself. I mean, that's serious. I mean, that series,

last year against Milwaukee because of injuries. He's just doing it himself. That's a really hard way to win in this league. And so I don't think he's a bad guy, but when people used to compare LeBron James and Kevin Durant, my takeaway was timeout. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Michael's a leader, Steph's a leader,

LeBron's a leader. Kevin Durant's just talented. When I think of the other guys, I think leadership. When I think of Durant, I just think talented. So once again, what does he end up with? Some weird personalities. He's not going to get along with Kyrie.

Remember about five months ago, four months ago? He was asked about Kyrie Irving, who refused to Vax. He goes, I don't know. I haven't talked to him. Once again, Kevin doing his saying super talented, walking on eggshells. But he and Hardin did not get along. And I'm not saying Hardin's the easiest guy to get along with. I'm not.

But I'll make a prediction that Hardin and Joe LMB, are going to get along better than Kevin Durant and the misfit toys that are now the Brooklyn Nats. I'll make you that guarantee. At some point, you can't live in an island. Relationships or work, they're hard even with family. Forget other star players. Even with family, they're hard and difficult.

And you have to sometimes just say what you think. I think Philadelphia is going to rock with Hardin and Joel Embed. I'll put a stamp on it. I think they're going to end up in the Eastern Conference Finals. So yesterday, Mike McCarthy had a kind of a rambling interview on the Rich Eisen Show, which is over there on Peacock, I think. And he was asked by Rich about all the rumors that Sean Peyton is going to take that cowboy job in a year. Dan Quinn, his excellent defensive coordinator, he's going to take that cowboy job in a year.

And Rich just asked him, what's it like to be? the cowboy coach with all these rumors out there? I've never once felt that I was not going to be the head coach moving forward. And frankly, I've been at this long enough. That's all I'm focused on. And I think the players, the coaches, football operations is really my main hold. I'm the leader of this football team. And I'm about winning.

And that's all I've ever focused on. And that's all I ever will focus on. Are these narratives on usual? Absolutely. I've never dealt with anything like this. Do I wish I didn't have to come on here and answer questions about it? Yeah, no doubt about it. I wish we were talking about something else.

But it is part of our landscape. It is for the Cowboys. So I'm going to make a not very bold prediction is that in one year, Sean Payton is going to be offered the cowboy job. It may be privately, it may be publicly, he'll be offered the job. Sean is going to take a broadcasting gig for one or two years. Now, he's not going to be in a game. analyst, like a Troy Aikman or a Chris Collinsworth.

Networks want you to really commit to that long term. But they'll put him on a set, like a Phil Sims is on a set or Howie Long, Bradshaw's on a set. They'll put him on a set. One of the networks will. Jimmy Johnson did that for a couple years. Jimmy Johnson left. Cowboys went on TV for a couple years and then found a place that was a good fit for him.

That was Miami. He's got a house down in the Keys. He coached the Miami Hurricanes. So that's my not very bold prediction. The Dallas Cowboys will offer Sean Payton the job in one year, either publicly or privately. And it's really interesting. I don't know if he'd take it, even though he has a house in Dallas.

Why? Because I think Indianapolis is going to have a job potentially in one year. I like Frank Reich, but Jim Urchay is getting very impatient. Pete Carroll's 70. I think Seattle and Russell Wilson can have an opening in one year. Cliff Kingsbury finishes fourth place again. Even third. He's probably out of work.

Arizona, Kyler Murray could have a job next year. Russell Wilson, Kyler Murray, Dak. Dak would probably be my third choice. This season, bad jobs opened. This was like Houston's got an opening and Miami that fires coaches every 15 minutes, got an opening. A lot of bad openings. Next year, you could have Seattle, you could have Arizona, they got great quarterbacks, you could have Indianapolis, you could have the Dallas Cowboys, well-funded, well-capitalized.

So you know what I think is happening to Mike McCarthy? And I listen to the interview this morning. And I think this happens, I think it happens to a lot of people. scary for a lot of people. You get older, you get into your late 50s, early 60s, and you're in an industry. And the industry gets really young, really fast. And that's NFL head coach. We just had 36-year-old Sean McVeigh beat 38-year-old Zach Taylor. NFL coaching is getting really young, really fast. So is college. You can talk about Sabin and Belichick. Belichick, I think, and nobody wants to say this.

I think he's struggling to pivot to the new NFL, which is a weapons league. It's always been a quarterback league. It's a weapons league of seven of the last eight teams. In fact, you can make an argument all of the last eight teams. I don't think Green Bay has great weapons. I love Devonte, Aaron, and Aaron Jones, but I don't think they have a ton of depth. But you can argue, of the last eight teams left, all eight are in the time. top 12 best weapons in the league. New England's bottom of the league. Even Belichick's struggling to pivot. And Mike McCarthy is 58 years old. And I listen to that interview and he sounds old

for 58 years old. And so it's not a bold prediction because Sean Payton, I believe, is in his 50s, but feels much more dynamic, feels much more creative. But sometimes industries, they get young, fast, late-night television, NFL coaching. Tex-O has been young, and you feel outdated. And as I listen to Mike McCarthy, seems like a nice guy. That's what he feels like today. We got a lot. We actually have a lot going on.

So the Super Bowl, the popularity of the NFL is pretty amazing because nobody thinks the Rams is a top five NFL brand. Nobody thinks the Bengals is a top 15 NFL brand. And they just broke all the Super Bowl records. Most watched TV show last five years streaming records. So brands do matter in sports. You know and I know. I talk more Lakers than I do other teams and, you know,

Yankees in the baseball season or a Dodgers or a Duke basketball or a Michigan, Ohio State football. You know how the game is played. But just because you have a big brand doesn't mean it can't die quickly. And one of them in Los Angeles is really quickly. the latest on a shake-your-head moment for the Lakers. Be sure to catch live editions of the herd weekdays in noon Eastern 9 a.m. Pacific on Fox Sports Radio, FS1, and the I-Hard Radio app.

Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show.

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Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Hey, this is Robert from the Stuff to Blow Your Mind podcast. Joe and I are both lifelong Star Wars fan, so we're celebrating May the 4th with a brand new week of fun, thought-provoking Star Wars-related episodes. Join us as we tackle science and culture topics from a galaxy far, far away, such as the biology of taun tons and wampas on the ice planet hot, or the practicality and corporate business sense of the Sith rule of two. Listen to stuff to blow your mind on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,

or wherever you get your podcasts. Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tapped Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to? do a little kill. Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam J.

And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick it here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 is big to me, not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack on day, but yeah, yeah, literally. But just so y'all know. I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack. So I'm starting to see that there's a through line.

We also have AIDS. on the table right now. Thank you for finishing that sentence. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really? Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

HustlerTurf, the brand lawn pros love. Zero Turn lawnmores. Go to hustlerturf.com, 1,400 dealers nationwide. So a story out this morning. The Lakers do not. want to pull the rip cord on Russell Westbrook. As the story goes, the Lakers think, you know, he's got some skills, got to coach him better. And the Lakers also don't want to, according to the report, acknowledge that, you know, we kind of whiffed on that deal. And the Lakers need to

really make a massive move. I live in a city of Los Angeles right now. A lot of big swings. USC went and got Lincoln Riley. Rams, Matt Stafford, Vaughn Miller, OBJ, Clippers, Kauai Leonard, George, Dodgers, Mookie Betts. This is a big swing aspirational town. You all know that. And it's a deal-making city. And so I would trade Anthony Davis at the end of the season. I've said it. He's not getting younger. He's not getting healthier. I don't think he takes care of his body. He's not a leader. I'd move him. I'd try to attach Westbrook to the deal. Probably can't too expensive. But I'd move him. And if you offend Clutch Sports, so be it. If you had to move LeBron, so be it. I would try not to, because I think LeBron has certain leadership skills.

He's a great passer. You're surrounded with some shooters and some young pieces. But LeBron at this point is never going to give you another 82 game season. I'm not sure if he's going to give you a 70 game season. I'm not sure he's going to give you a 65 game season. They don't have draft picks. The roster's old. Westbrook doesn't fit.

I'd make a big move on Anthony Davis. It is interesting, though. The Lakers were owned by Jerry. bus. He was Showtime, Laker Girls, fabulous forum, VIP clubs, very ahead of the curve.

Very risk-taking. That's not his kids. This is becoming the classic second-generation business and the kids are clinging onto its history. Every time the Lakers post-Cobi get into a problem, they call an ex-Laker. There's a story out now. They're calling Magic Johnson.

I like Kurt Rambus. Really nice guy. He should not have a strong voice. Do what the Ravens and the Steelers did in their second generation businesses. The Rooney's handed the organization mostly over to Kevin Colbert, competent GM. That's what the Ravens have done. The Lakers, though, every time there's a dilemma, let's get an ex-Laker on the phone. Really rear view mirror stuff. You know who runs the team?

Kobe's agent. Somebody they've dealt with for 25 years. You look at the Raiders. Look at these second-generation businesses. Cal McNair with the Texans. Mess. Mark Davis Raiders, question marks. Mike Brown, Bengals, Yankees, Steinbrenner kids.

Doesn't mean they're all terrible, obviously. Bengals just had a good year. But they haven't been run very well. Second generation. And, you know, the dad was a risk-taker and unique and tried new things. And maybe the kids are playing it safe, trying to hold on to that legacy, but Frank Vogel was a total outsider, and he won a title, a strong outside voice.

He did not want the Westbrook deal. By the way, for years and years, USC football, got to hire somebody, got to hire a Trojan, got a hire Lane, got a hire Sart, got to hire Clay Hilton. Finally, going out's out of the box. We're going to go get Lincoln Riley. That's what Alabama did for years. Hired anybody connected to Bear Bryant. Finally, Nick Saban, no connection.

this organization need to make a massive swing and stop getting on the phone with ex-lakers to solve their issues. Joy Taylor with the news. No, no, no, no, turn on the news. This is the herd line news. Well, the Bengals did get some good news on the health of Joe Burrow. He will not need to have surgery, according to Ian Rappaport. For the knee injury, he suffered in Super Bowl 56.

We all kind of took a collective gasp. in, but it did kind of appear after the game. Like, this was an injury. He would have sat out of a regular season game if it had occurred. But it's a Super Bowl, so you're going to go back in. Although he'll likely have to do some rehab work. The injury is not likely to affect his offseason significantly. You're seeing him there.

Yeah, that was a scary moment. His rookie season ended with a torn ACL, as we know. Seventy sacks. We need to figure out how to stop allowing that to happen. times lead leading league leading league leading leaders of sacks this season 70 with the postseason 51 during the regular season you know what you should do if you can ever watch this game all the bengel fans complaining about the Logan Wilson call watch this game without the emotion so you know the outcome do you ever watch a game like a month later yeah I was watching highlights of this yesterday

the Rams defensive line controlled that entire football game. Well, that was the matchup that everyone was looking for. And it was. And yes, I mean, they sacked him seven times. And could have been 10. That's ridiculous. It's the Super Bowl. You can't win that way.

They could not sustain a drive. If you take out the 75-yard, no PI-call touchdown, the only drive they had in the game that scored a touchdown, they needed a half-back pass. They knew they would struggle in the red zone to move the ball. You cannot believe how dominant. Take the emotion out, watch it again. The Rams defensive front completely control the game.

Well, they have a lot of cap space, and they have the 31st pick in the first round, a second round, third round, fourth round, fifth round, sixth round, and two seventh. So they can spend a lot of that on trying to rebuild the offensive line and some, you know, free agency money. But an interesting stats that CBS, NFL and CBS just tweeted this. What a... Each of the last 16 quarterbacks to lose in their Super Bowl debut. 16.

The last 16, as the starter, have never made it back to the Super Bowl. Can you give me some of those people? Jimmy Garoppelow? Jared Goff. Matt Ryan, Cam Newton, Colin Kaepernick, Matt Hasselbeck, Donovan McNabb, Rich Gannon, Carrie Collins, Steve McNair, Chris Chandler, Drew Bledsoe, Neil O'Donnell, Stan Humphreys, Rex Grossman, Jake Delholm. Now, Burroughs, Borrow is better than most.

of those. Burrow is better. Now, he's better than a lot of them. A lot of them. But remember, but it is interesting. So the 16 quarterbacks. To lose in their Super Bowl debut. Last 16 have never gotten back.

Well, we were, Jason McIntyre was on the other day. You can certainly make an argument in that division. Well, Lamar is going to be back. Cleveland's roster. They still have a great roster. We both still have questions about Baker, but he is capable. Sure. And, you know, who knows what the Steelers are going to do.

They're not going to have to worry about them if they run it back with Mason Rudolph and Dwayne Haskins. Carson Wentz. But Carson Wentz could be Jimmy Garoppel. They could draft. So, yeah, I mean, it's not the easiest division. I don't see them dropping off the face of the planet, but they have to fix the offensive line. And look, everyone would love a great offensive line. We talk about it like, oh, like, go get an offensive line.

Teams are trying to build offensive line. And there's only so many great offenses linemen out there. But it has to be a extreme point of emphasis. If you look at the history of the NFL where like a bad team gets to a Super Bowl, like that Del Ome team or like the Falcons, they almost always, the next year, not disintegrate, but come way back down to earth. The Rams are not a flash in a pan.

The culturally, it's one of the best cultures in the league. Well, I mean, they've been to the Super Bowl twice in the last six years. There's about eight different bingal stories where a bad, culture, a bad team moves up, loses Super Bowl, and doesn't return for 15 years. Like there's, just go look at the last 25, 35 Super Bowl winners. I mean, if that's, if they get to that point, like if they drop off to that point, I couldn't see Joe Burrell spending all 15 years in Cincinnati. Now look, we're being very gloom and doom right now.

I'm going to be optimistic that Cincinnati knows their offensive line is not good and it's going to try to work on, you know, developing it, drafting it, and bringing in some guys in free agency. So according to you in Rabaport, the Vikings. and Rams offensive coordinator, Kevin O'Connell, are finalizing the deal for him to become their head coach. This was expected, just had to wait until after the Super Bowl. They were expected to announce him as the new head coach in the news conference,

in a news conference tomorrow. They came to an agreement February 2nd, but had to wait until the Super Bowl was complete. And he just finished his second year with the Rams. He also interviewed with the Texans and the Jaguars were interested in an interview, but had to wait until after the Super Bowl, and obviously they have moved on. I will say this.

he's a good fit for them. Nothing against Mike Zimmer, but they have really good offensive pieces. I mean, I'll argue all day long. Kirk Cousins, Justin Jefferson, Adam Thielen, above average tight ends, Dalvin Cook is top seven or eight in this league weapons. I think this was the best job available

in terms of stability, weapons, roster, roster, fan base facilities. Joy, look at, they have given the Packers. Kirk Cousins is 500 against Aaron Rogers. They have given Green Bay problem. What's telling you is they match up. Yeah.

I mean, look, I'm not a Kirk Cousins believer. Yeah. He's competent. He's competent. I would rather have Kirk Cousins than not have Kurt Cousins. He's great at making money. I mean, should teach a class. That guy is monetized the position.

Should be at the front of every rookie symposium on how to get the bag. It's great at that. I just think he's limited. I don't know that there's a person that can make him more than what we've seen of him. So I'm not optimistic about it overall, but they do have a good roster, and they should have been better than they were this year. So Miami's new head coach had a lot to say about his new quarterback when speaking to him, he spoke to him on the plane ride to join the team. And Mike McDaniel thinks that two his abilities are perfect for his offense. Oh, perfect.

He said what I've seen is a skill set that I'm familiar with that's very successful in this offense. You're seeing a very accurate passer. that receivers love to catch footballs from athleticism, some natural pocket movement, and a tough competitor that's willing to stand in there when necessary. These things are components to a quarterback's game that are very important. That probably played big on dolphinfan.com. They probably bought it into every one of those comments.

I don't know. I don't know what, I don't have a good read on what Dolphins fans are thinking. I think everyone's still a little salty about the way things went down. And also, obviously, there is an investigation going on to... Look at the stands there. Does it look like there's many dolphin fans to begin with? Well, I don't know. Was that warm-ups?

I don't want to be inaccurate about this. Look, he's 7 and 5 record this year, too. It had 67.8 completion percentage, 16 touchdowns, 10 interceptions, 128 rushing yards, three rushing touchdowns. He deserves another year. Look at that. I don't think the dolphins gave him a good fair shake, a good start to his career. How about this?

Not everybody gets a fair shake. That's my role. even fair, but I do think if you're going to draft Tua, you should probably just lean into him being your quarterback. Look at these shots. There's nobody in the stands. Yeah, the game hasn't started, Colin. There's not that many people just chilling. Before the game in Buffalo,

there's all sorts of fans of. Right, and people go to Buffalo games, so obviously this is the warm-up shots that we're seeing here. People go to Dolphins games. They do. Look, listen, Dolphins fans been through a lot. This has been a rough

couple of months for Dolphins fans. I'm I'm going through a legal separation at the moment. Okay, we are in separate homes. Okay. Not separate beds, separate homes. All right. The paperwork has been filed. Okay.

All right. So we'll see, you know, leave the door open. But look, best of luck to Mike McDaniel. I don't know. The Dolphins fire coach every three years. Yeah, that's the way it works. I don't believe in giving everybody a fair shake. That's the new me.

Well, I don't think that, I don't think you should teach kids that life is fair because that's a lie. That's a fantasy. Yeah. So, so. should things be more equal? Should there be more equal opportunities, of course? But the reality is that life is not fair and you're going to have to overcome things no matter who you are. And it's important to embrace that. But that being said, it's not really about fair with the Dolphins. The Dolphins split time with Ryan Fitzpatrick is rookie year. Spent the whole year

last year talking about Deshawn Watson. And now you have a new coach. So it's not that he had I want to say fair, but like the dolphins didn't do him any favors. Well, maybe if he was better, they wouldn't have looked for DeShon Watson. Maybe that. Nobody in the Chargers is looking for DeShon Watson. Maybe. That's a great point. But I don't think that it can all be put on Tua. Like it's, it's, you probably could have made the path for him a little bit easier. And also, you would have known 100% if you had something into her or not if you had done that. All right. Joy with the news.

Well, that's the news. And thanks for stopping by. The herd lie news. I tell my kids all the time, you've got a great dad. The rest of your life's probably not going to be as great as the dad you inherited. Sometimes you, you know. Listen, there's a lot of people with bad dads. That's right. You're absolutely right.

Nick Wright is joining us. He's a good dad joining us live. Thanks. I'm just in a mood today. So, uh... And Joy's right, though, Colin. Life's not fair. I showed up this morning to first things first with my hair exactly how Joyce was.

and they said, you have to go home or fix it. I said, Joy Taylor gets to do this. It's not fair. It's not fair. Life isn't fair. Tell your kids. So years ago, there was a Kevin Durant's better than LeBron vibe. You'd hear that chorus.

And I remember thinking, timeout, time out. It's more than just shooting basketballs. You got to do a lot of stuff. Both ends, be tough, be physical, be available, be a leader. And, you know, I said this to start the show is Kevin always ends up in the same place on an island. He's a really talented guy on an island. And at some point, can we just say this? He's quirky.

He's a wanderer. He's not really a leader. He's just gifted. And once again, he's left with a team of toys of misfits in Brooklyn. Yeah, well, listen, I like the trade for Brooklyn because they now have a defensive presence they didn't have. But obviously, it is not the big three that they thought they had. And now Kevin Durant's been a part of, arguably, the two most talented offensive big threes ever. the first one broke up because he left

and the second one never got off the ground and so he has to wear some of that. Now, I think his biggest mistake in Brooklyn, Colin, was that he picked his original running mate as Kyrie. If I'm talking about why did Hardin not work out in Brooklyn? A lot of the blame goes to Harden, a lot of the blame goes to Kyrie. I think some of the blame goes to Sean Marks

for saying Kyrie's not playing and then, you know, waffling and flip-flopping. Now he is playing. I don't think that's out well with Hardin. So there's a lot of names I would list before I would get to Durant on why this one didn't work. But here's what is true, and I think this will resonate with you. You know, I'm big on NBA lists and the best players ever. If I were to talk about the 15 greatest players ever, there are three guys on that list that I think all of us say, even though they won, they won less than you would have thought they should. have given their talent and domination.

All right. And those guys are, Wilk Chamberlain, Shaquille O'Neill. Yeah. And as of this moment, Kevin Durant. I agree. That's fair. And what do those three guys have in common?

They weren't great leaders. Shaq is awesome, an all-time dominant player. But he was not a great leader. It's hard to lead when you're like, hey, I'll play my way into shape. I'll do those things. lead that way. It's fair. Wilt obviously was not a leader,

and KD has never seemingly wanted to be a leader. So I think when you look at it and you say, you know, how does Akeem Olajuwon have as many rings as Wilt Chamberlain, as many rings as Kevin Durant? It's because in addition to all the great things he did,

he was a rallying force, the likes of which that more talented guys who have not won more than him were not able to be. I think that is probably the fairest knock on Durant. He's just never embraced that part of being the best player on a team. Now, I was talking to Daryl Morey yesterday in my podcast. We brought you up a couple of times, and we love your corkiness. But he and I did agree on this.

I said, listen, I think it's much easier to bring a talented person into good chemistry and win. That's Philadelphia. The chemistry is good. Doc tends to be kind of like Joe Torre in baseball. It's a good locker room. You know, he can kind of bounce him. He goes out. I just think Philadelphia's got, hey, can Hardin come in and be engaged?

They'll win a bunch of games. I think you got a lot of pieces in Brooklyn, and I don't know how they fit. But I would say this, I really honestly believe today, 10 games, Sixers, and Bede Hardin. I think they're going to look like a team that can challenge Milwaukee. Am I being too optimistic? Oh, no, I don't think you're being too optimistic. Listen, I think Milwaukee's the best team because they have the best player and he just happened to drop 50. last night. They have the championship medal. They have all of that. But the only team in the

East that I think gives Milwaukee pause is Philly. Because if you look at what Philly can do, the five they can put on the court, you can have Maxie as an instant offense scoring guard. You can have James Hardin as distributor, facilitator, score, depending on the role, assuming Hardin is engaged and in shape, which I think magically he will. be once again. You then have Tibel to guard the other team's best player, a great defensive player. You then in your fourth spot have Tobias Harris, who's overpaid, but if he is your third option on offense or your fourth option on offense, you can score 20 any given night, that's a good thing. And then, oh yeah, by the way, you have Joelle Embed, who up to this point of the season is

probably the league MVP. And then if you want, you switch out Tobias or Tibel for Danny Green depending on what you need. I think that's a legitimate five-man closing lineup that can cause real problems. Now, I obviously have real concerns about James Hardin in the postseason. And Joelle and Bid, there's the health concern. There's also the, he's never been to a conference finals,

let alone an NBA finals. But let me put it like this, Colin, I think we would agree. If you were to tell me the end of the story is Milwaukee didn't make the finals, the only team I'm sliding in there is Philly. Not Chicago, they're not ready, not Miami. They're not quite good enough.

And I think Brooklyn is a wing short. So I think if it's not Milwaukee, I think it's Philly out. No, I do too. I want to take a break and come back because you have some really interesting football takes. So stick around, buddy. Nick Wright's hair is not what he wanted today. It's what the network wanted. So we'll maybe deal with some therapy on the back end of that.

Be sure to catch live editions of the herd weekdays at noon Eastern 9 a.m. Pacific. Hey, it's Ben, host of the fifth hour with Ben Maller, along with my trusty sidekick, David Gascone, would mean a lot to have you join us on our weekly auditory journey. You're asking what in God's name is the fifth hour? I'll tell you, it's a spinoff of the Ben Mather show, a cult hit overnights on FSR. Why should you listen? Picture, if you will, a world where we chat with captains of industry in media, sports, and more every week, explore some amazing facts about human nature and more.

Listen to the fifth hour with Ben Mather on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcast. or wherever you get your podcast. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year.

Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying.

Yep, that's me, Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment,

and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clivert Show isn't just a podcast, it's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So, if you've ever supported me, or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to The Cliverts Show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or we're wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Hey, this is Robert from the Stuff to Blow Your Mind podcast. Joe and I are both

lifelong Star Wars fan, so we're celebrating May the 4th with a brand new week of fun, thought-provoking Star Wars-related episodes. Join us as we tackle science and culture topics from a galaxy far, far away, such as the biology of tontons and wampas on the ice planet hot, or the practicality and corporate business sense of the Sith rule of two. Listen to Stuff to Bole Your Mind on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tap Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people.

I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do with Little Kim? Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick a here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill,

waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 is big to me, not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack on day, but just so you all know. I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack, so I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now, so. Thank you finishing that sentence. Yes.

I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really? Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. You know, I got into this discussion. I think Joey and I talked about this yesterday on the show is I don't know what the market is for OBJ. They have a lot of receivers, and I think I would probably move off him if I was the Rams. And it's funny. Nick Wright joins me again live, and we had him last segment. You had an interesting thought about OBJ. Lay it out for us. Yeah, I think he should strongly consider retiring. And you know how fond I am of Odell as a player and as a person. And at some point, you reach the threshold for lower body injuries at that position. He's already not as fast as he once was, not quite as explosive as he once was.

And now he has another ACL injury to rehab missing. next time he plays a football game, he's going to be 30 years old, Colin. And so, yeah, I would love for him to have another act, but what I would not like is for it's like, oh, O'Dell plays for the Atlanta Falcons and had 34 catches for 420 yards. I think if the final images we have of him are these,

that's pretty great. And you might say, well, what about the money? I would think, Colin, he could potentially make as much money in broadcasting as he could playing football. Because I don't think there's a big payday waiting for him on the other side of this because of the injury and the age. And, you know, I know how fond you are of Akeeb Taleb, our colleague. Yeah.

I think Akeep has been a revelation in the booth. Yeah. I think O'Dell could bring some of that, some of the kind of raw realness, but also from the offensive players' perspective. Yeah. I said to Greg Jennings the other day, I think in a booth, he could be kind of a combo of Akib and Greg Jennings, two guys who I both think are excellent.

So I just think he should think long and hard about it because he's accomplished everything he came here to accomplish. And so he wants to keep playing more power to him, but I don't think retirement's a terrible idea. Joy had a stat earlier. What was that stat about 16 losing Super Bowl quarterbacks, Joy? The last 16 starting quarterbacks who lost in their Super Bowl debut have never made it back to the game. So Burrell lost. What do you make of the Bengals going forward, Nick? Yeah, I just, listen, I think this was their opportunity.

I don't think they were that good of a team this year. I know everyone's like, oh, they beat your chiefs twice. They did. And credit to them. I give them all. This isn't bitterness. It's better for my chiefs if the Bengals were some juggernaut. Like, ah, we lost them.

But at the end of the year, Colin, they lost eight times, and they had five wins that came on field goals as time expired or an over. overtime. They are in a division where every quarterback in that division got hurt except for theirs. Lamar missed the second half of the year. Baker was hurt all year and Big Ben's injury was, you know, geriatric base where he technically played, but he was hurt. So they had all of that and they still barely won the division. I think they have, I say with respect, I guess this isn't that respectful, but I think they clearly have the worst coach in the, their division. And if you were to ask me, what's more likely that the Bengals, forget the Super Bowl, that the Bengals are in next year's AFC championship game, or that the Bengals next year

missed the playoffs, I would easily say miss the playoffs. I just think, I think the bills are awesome. I think the chiefs are obviously awesome. I think the charges will be better. The Ravens were eight and three, despite having the worst injury luck imaginable. I just think the AFC is really hard, and I don't think what the Bengals did is sustainable. All right. So you do Nick's tiers, your NFL tiers, entering the off season. So this is officially the way the league works. Now we got free agency coming up and we have the draft, but the coaching moves.

So I tend to go, like every month I say, okay, here's the free agency. Here's the draft. Here's the moves. Then here's the injuries. So this is going forward today. Give me your tears. Well, we can just show them. Yeah, this is, again, obviously.

it can change based on injuries, you know, trades, free and see, all of it. But I just want to kind of focus on the bottom two, Colin, because I think we probably, Colin, agree on those top four. Maybe we disagree on the order. I'm sure, you know what, but I think you probably agree. Those are probably the four best teams in football. If Trey Lance can play. If Trey Lant is a B to a B plus, yes, I agree with that.

Yeah, because, listen, I think Jimmy Garoppolo is a C plus, and they got to a Super Bowl, got to a conference championship game. But so quarterback question and coaching question. I don't think Zach Taylor, Mike McCarthy, and Cliff Kingsbury are good coaches. I do like Staley, but let me tell you why he's a coaching question, Colin. I worry that the likes of you and your ilk are going to bully Brandon Staley into being a boring go-by-the-book coach. I think he's going to hear, have to hear Colin Coward every Monday, say, take the points, take the points.

even though the Super Bowl was won thanks to a fourth and one conversion on their own 30 with five minutes left. Nobody criticized that because it works. It's almost like people are playing the result. That's neither here nor there. So I have questions about those coaches. And then the next level, I like all those teams.

The cults, the Titans, I have real questions about their quarterback though. And are you going to bring back, Brian Tannel, are you going to bring back Carson Wentz? And my question, the reason I have the reason I have, Ravens there is I do think we need to it's not only is Lamar going to be healthy but I thought when he was playing last year Lamar's play was a little concerning it's not that he was bad no no

no no no didn't take the next step we would have hoped for yeah but I love the coaches and I love the rosters of those 14 you know it's really interesting and you and I agree on this you don't have green bay in your aid you don't have green bay in it and I I feel the exact same way I honestly believe like, Aaron, regardless of what you think, he doesn't trust a second receiver or a second tight end in a weapons league. He does not try. I watched the Niners game at home. He wouldn't let go of the seed, right? Like so in the end, I think Green Bay's window is closed. I on it, so you must feel the same way. I agree. I absolutely agree. And listen, on the Aaron Rogers thing.

I thought you're open on Monday after the Super Bowl, the Stafford Rogers stuff, was brilliant. I thought it was really well done. And I think you make some strong points. And I, you know, you know how much it pains me to say that. I know that. I do think Green Bay, if they keep Rogers, I do think they'll win the division. Because I don't, you know, what are the Vikings going to do?

What are the lions going to do? I don't, the bears with a new coach, we'll see what Justin Fields is. But so what? that they win that division. I think there are certain moments, certain games that are truly devastating for how you view a player. And I was, I mean, taken aback to say the least by Aaron's performance in that last game. And to me, it has put him in a spot where the regular season accolades are almost a negative. it's almost a negative that he has all these MVP's and this touchdown interception ratio

and he has a decent list of these playoff moments. So I just can't trust him. And so that and that's got, you know, that's got nothing to do with his vaccination status. He might have something to do with his fashion choices. I have a hard time trusting anyone that wears a corduroy suit. Like if we're being honest, I'm like, okay, you're you make some poor decisions. But it's mostly on the field. I thought that playoff game, even after the blocked punt, Colin, it's a tie game.

All you got to do is throw it to Alan Lazzard over the middle. You escape. You're kicking a field goal. You're at home to go to the Super Bowl. And he didn't do it. So, yeah, I don't have them on that list. Nope, totally agree. Nick Wright, excellent performance today.

We got football. We got basketball, my friend. And it's great seeing you. Great seeing you. All right, buddy. We'll hit hockey next time. I promise. See you, buddy.

No, I think he makes a point. There are losses that stick with you. And I watch Stafford's fourth quarter this year, and I watch Aaron. Going forward, I trust Stafford more than Aaron. And it ain't close. Like one's a foxhole guy, one's a, everything's comfortable. I'm good guy. And to me, it's not close.

Greg CoSell next. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends, me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes.

Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all,

embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, what's good, y'all? You're listening to learn the hard way with your favorite therapist and host Kier Games.

This space is about black men's, experiences, having honest conversations that it's really not safe to have anywhere, but you're having them with a licensed professional who knows what he's doing. How many men carry a suit are armored. It signals to the world that you're not to be played with. And just because you have the capability that does not mean that you need to, listen to learn the hard way on the AHA radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. Hey, this is Robert from the Stuff to Blow Your Mind podcast. Joe and I are both lifelong Star Wars fan, so we're celebrating May the 4th with a brand new week of fun, thought-provoking Star Wars-related episodes.

Join us as we tackle science and culture topics from a galaxy far, far away, such as the biology of taun tons and wampas on the ice planet hot, or the practicality and corporate business sense of the Sith rule of two. Listen to Stuff to Bole Your Mind on the IHeart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.