The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Hour 1 - Franchise quarterbacks

Episode Date: April 30, 2025

Colin defends the NFL and the recent track record of franchise quarterbacks drafted in the first round in response to Shedeur Sanders falling to the 5th round being a "huge mistake". He believes the Knicks struggling in their series against the Pistons points out how far they are from contending with the Celtics despite the massive moves to bring in Karl-Anthony Towns and Mikal Bridges Luka Doncic's lack of defense is hurting the LakersSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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You're listening to Fox Sports Radio. Here we go. We are live in Chicago, wherever you may be. However, you may be watching or listening. Thanks for making us part of your day. We've got a great one today. Greg CoSell, one hour from now. We're going to talk about Shadoor Sanders.

And J.M. McCulloch, I was thinking about this. I don't know how much more we're going to talk about Shadur Shandah. I don't. But there is something that has happened. When something crazy and unexpected happens, people look for answers. So you and I and people who cover the NFL over the last three or four days

are trying to provide answers. And there was more yesterday from a Pittsburgh Post-Gazette writer. Are you ready for it? I'm ready. Okay, so the Steelers, by not drafting Shadur Sanders, remember, there's only about three teams

we thought were going to take a quarterback in round one. Tennessee, the giants who were clearly not interested, bad interview with Shadour, and then Pittsburgh, for sure. Cleveland, by trading down, told you they may get a backup, but they're going to get their starting quarterback next year. Well, the Pittsburgh host Gazette writer yesterday told Rich Eisen that the Steelers were not looking at Shadour Sanders.

They were looking at backups. Like the L.A. Rams, the Steelers, and Rams. This is what I told you. I didn't buy the Rams, wanted Jackson Dart. They were interested. They thought Jackson Dart was interesting, but the Steelers, the Rams, the Browns next year, is the year they want the quarterback. This was a backup quarterback draft.

So that's more information on Shadur. Pittsburgh was never in the starting quarterback market. They wanted to get the roster ready for Aaron Rogers draft a backup. That's why Aaron Rogers kind of took their word for it, but wanted to wait. But let me just say this. Can we stop with this narrative? It's the worst take and narrative happening in sports now.

You know, the NFL just doesn't know what they're doing with quarterbacks. Time out. let me tell you first round quarterbacks currently in the NFL Mahomes, Lamar, Burrow, Allen, Herbert, Stafford, Jaden Daniels, Aaron Rogers, C.J. Stroud, Jared Goff, Jordan Love, Kyler Murray, oh, by the way, Baker and Sam Darnold. Not to mention, Drake May looks really good. Bo Nicks looks really good.

Caleb Williams is really talented. That doesn't even count the Pro Bowl or Tua, who I'm not a huge fan of. Almost all. Ooh, ooh, Jaylen Hertz fell to the second. Yeah, he got benched in college. He had to transfer. He's smaller than average and still not a great pocket quarterback.

If you listen to Greg CoSell, who I trust. The truth is in my life, overwhelmingly, Bradshaw, Aitman, Peyton, Marino, overwhelmingly, Mahomes, Lamar. They've all been first-round picks. it's not easy to do this, but stop making Shadur and Deon Sanders the victim here. They're not. It's all really explainable. Shadur didn't hire an agent. Big mistake. He just listened to his dad. Bigger mistake.

Dion had the talent to Sandbag interviews. Shadour doesn't. So yes, Brock Purdy fell to the seventh, but he was one in six against playoff teams last year when many of his stars weren't healthy. And nobody thinks Brock Purdy is an elite world-class Josh Allen athlete. He's not close. Yes, Joe Montana went in the third round. But he doesn't win those Super Bowls without the greatest offensive coach in the history of the league Bill Walsh.

And Brady got a bunch of Super Bowls, and he went in the sixth round. And he doesn't win all those early Super Bowls without the greatest coach slash defensive coach in league history, Bill Belichick. It's all explainable, okay? In my life, the best quarterbacks have overwhelmingly been in the first round. Here's the other thing to consider is that young man, personnel is hard, but judging young man at 18, 19, 20, 21, 22 is hard. Boys mature more slowly than girls.

Baker Mayfield, I didn't think, was ready at the time to be a franchise quarterback. He is now. This is hard in the NBA. Best player in the NBA is Yolkich. It was a second rounder. Best defensive player ever is Draymond. Second rounder. The Knicks best player.

Jalen Brunson, second rounder. It's hard. Young men mature, more slowly, frontal lobe brain stuff, and it's tough. People miss all the time. And by the way, it's not just quarterback. Max Krosmi, Puka Nakua.

It's hard. You just don't know. Yes, Shadur was underdrafted, in my opinion. I would have taken him if I was Pittsburgh. But I didn't know Pittsburgh had an Aaron Rogers deal. The story in the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette, they were never really interested. They're not going to take a quarterback, a starting quarterback this year. So, listen, take a deep breath.

You can't sandbag interviews. You can't do it. You can't not hire an agent. You can't not work out at the combine. You can't have, let's be honest, a cringy draft room with legendary all over it. If you're a B prospect in a really, weak quarterback draft. Greg Olson yesterday. As he's shown at two different spots in colleges that he could go to teams that

didn't necessarily have a great tradition of winning and turn the program around and bring attention and energy and buzz? Absolutely. He did it twice. So I'm not throwing him yet. I'm not thrown him to the wolves and saying he has no career, but I think he needs to take a good, hard reset, and say, you know what, it's all about ball. It's all about me giving myself to have a chance to have a career in this league and if it's as a backup and then I work to a starter, whatever that path is, but the league I think has shown and the message was pretty clear, you better be really, really talented, especially at quarterback if we're going to put up with a lot of other attention, a lot of other things. And he's just not that talented, that talented. Okay, so

Nick's Pistons, I thought it would be an ugly series, but I thought that Nix would win in five. I still think the Knicks are going to win this series, but we have to be honest, five points separates these teams through five games. Last night, look at the box score. Field goal percentage, rebounds, three point percentage, points in the paint, assists. These are pretty even teams. I think the Knicks are a little better. But they gave up five first-round picks to get McHale Bridges, and they thought that would be the difference. He's a good But here's a problem. The Knicks were built to, they wanted to build this thing to beat the Celtics.

And then something happened. Jason Tatum went from an A minus to an A plus. And Peyton Pritchard went from nine a game to the best bench player in the league. So Boston was already better and two of their players popped. Like Brunson and Jason Tatum, those are different level players. Okay, no GM in the league given a choice would take Brunson and I love him too. Right? So it's like what we're seeing with Cleveland and Boston. They're good players, very good players.

Like Boston's two player. Peyton Pritchard, nine a game. Payton Pritchard now is a threat every time he touches the ball. McHale Bridges, same player. O.G., pretty much same player. Josh Hart, kind of same player. Brunson, good, same player. Cat, can't defend.

Great offense. Same player. Boston was better, and Tatum has exploded. Arguably the best player in the entire playoffs. and Peyton Pritchers become the best bench guy in the league. And the Knicks have always been a little like Texas football, where brand is big, college football and the NBA are better when those teams are great. They're fascinating.

You can't take their eyes off, and they've been in wildly historic playoff games. But since 1980, the Longhorns have one trophy, and since 1974, the Knicks have none. So I think the Knicks should be front and center on the Yannis trade, and Yonis is getting moved. That was a mess. We called that one. We like the Pacers quickly. That series was a mess.

But I think the Knicks built this. You don't give away five first round picks for Mikhail Bridges unless you think that's going to get us right up next to the Celtics. And the Celtics exploded. Jason Tatum exploded. Peyton Pritcher exploded. And so I don't think they're close. I mean, again, the Knicks are a really good team with a bunch of good players.

The Celtics now have a superstar. It took Aunt Edwards, I think, until this playoff run, and we all went, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, he arrived. And Jason Tatum's been an A-a-minus player for years, didn't have the confidence. You watch this series? You watch this season. Hey, Jason Tatum's a different player. He plays with a confidence.

We were all hoping he would three and a half years ago. He's playing with it now with all his talent. So I think it's just one of these things. The Knicks and Pist, I mean, the Pistons a year ago were in a rebuild. The Knicks thought Mikhail Bridges was the difference, and they're even. And I've said this. there's a certain clarity and give Detroit credit.

They're playing their butt off. Kate Cunningham's amazing. Good for them. It's cool. I grew up with a lot of Pistons basketball teams being great from Bob Lanier and Dave Bing to the bad boys, all that stuff.

Give them credit. But these teams were supposed to have a gap. One year ago, one's rebuilding, and six months ago, somebody's bringing on McAil Bridges to beat the Celtics, and they're just really even. Here's Jalen Brunson after.

We got to go there with the mindset to win as simple as that regardless of how we feel, whatever. Tomorrow we have turned the page. I think I said this before. If it's a win or it's a loss, it's a short-term memory in the playoffs because you've got to come back the next day

and figure out what we got to do to win the next one. Listen, New York is a big, loud, emotional city and they fell in love with this team, and that's awesome. But don't fall in love with this roster. It's just a lot of good people. players. And look at how good SGA. Yokic, here comes Wembe, Ant and Tatum have exploded.

Good in 2025 and very good is not good enough. You can love a team. Two things can be true. You can love Brunson. But if he's your one, after watching Ant and Tatum this year, that's not going to hoist a trophy. And for the record, a lot of people, I think I may be one of them, I think Cleveland may be Boston. I mean, they look unbelievable. At least Orlando hung around games for a half.

J. Mack, I know you grew up a Knicks fan. I know this is painful for you. I'll tell you the other thing. The other series, which is fascinating, and I think we knew it would be close. Clippers Nuggets. We have to be honest here. Russell Westbrook has been huge for Denver.

He's been great. Huge. I poured my kids some milk in their cereal this morning, and James Hardin was on the side of the milk carton. Because he's missing right now. Clippers have no idea where he is. He didn't show up last night. But great point by Brunson. Just lack of urgency from the Knicks last night, Colin, I was devastated, man.

I wanted them to wrap it up, get ready to go, play the Celtics this weekend. And now, you've got to go back to Detroit. That place is going to be juiced up. I don't feel great about the Knicks right now. Yeah, no, it's, it's, you know, a year ago, you would have never guessed these two teams would have been close. After they got Mikhail Bridges, you're like, they're not going to beat Boston, but they can take them six. Yeah. And then Tatum and Pritchard, you're like, well,

Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, Boston has separated from the Knicks. So you don't have to go back to the drawing board, but you should probably put your name in for Janus. Make a run. For sure. At Janus. Okay, coming up, we got a lot of things to talk about. One of them is Russell Westbrook.

I mean, I've been as critical as anybody. That dude deserves a ton of credit. He was in the first half last night essential for Denver. Westbrook deserves love. And the other thing is a very respected voice in NBA media calls out Luca and he's right next in the herd. Be sure to catch live editions of the herd weekdays in noon Eastern 9 a.m. Pacific on Fox Sports Radio, FS1 and the IHard Radio app. Hey, it's us to Jonas Brothers. And guess what? We have some big news. What's the news? Huge news. We created our own podcast called, Hey Jonas. We invented a podcast.

Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to it. We're the first people to do podcasts. Pretty, yeah, pretty wide range of podcasts throughout there. But this one's extra special. So how did we actually come up with a name, Hey Jonas, guys? I honestly don't remember. I think it was on a call about what we should call it.

Oh, we were thinking I'm originally calling it one of the early names of our band. Before Jonas Brothers was... This is how you guys remember it going down? Yes. I have a very different memory of this. We were talking about a thing, a bit for the podcast, where people could call in and say, hey, Jonas. And then I wrote down on my little notepad, Hey Jonas,

and offered it up as a potential title for the podcast. But thanks for remembering that, guys. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends.

Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman, Help make you funnier. This week, my guest, S&L's Mikey Day and headwriter, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the IHeart Radio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The French Open is one of the toughest tests in tennis, and I know firsthand because I competed there myself. I'm Renee Stubbs, and on the René. Nays Stub's Tennis podcast, I'm breaking down everything happening at Roland Garris. Every match, every upset, and what it really takes to win on Clay. Jenchian went. I mean, she went down to three to Rabakina, but I'm delighted.

She's an outsider to win the French for me. And she likes Clay. Listen, Lena Rabakina is arguably the best player in the world right now, and I actually can win on any surface, because if she's serving, well, good luck. Consider this your court-side seat to the French Open. Listen to the Renee Stubbs tennis podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHeart Women's Sports. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged.

It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds, I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. All right, welcome back. So, you know, the Lucidontage trade, I've said this about the media, and I can be guilty of this.

I try not to do this, but we become an avalanche and nobody grabs a shovel. Like everybody just jumps on the avalanche to bury people and GMs. But I said from day one on Luca, he's a much better version of Carmelo Anthony, who is a lobsided player as is Luca, all offense, no defense, not in great shape. I would have considered for the right package moving off Luca, who they were going to have to pay 70 million plus a year. So Zach Lowe is a really outstanding NBA analyst. Excellent.

Works for the Ringer. he's being up front and honest about the reality Laker fans are now realizing with Luca. Why do you have to get humiliated at the beginning of every single playoff series before you show the world like, yeah, I can actually put in a little bit more of an effort on defense. I'm just tired of like, I'm going to be embarrassed until our backs are against the wall, and then I'm going to show you that, yeah, I can put up a little bit of a fight. How about you put up a fucking fight in like game one of the second round? And now you're down 3-1 and you're probably going home.

And that's the thing. Kareem in his prime got traded. So did Babe Ruth and Wayne Gretzky and Wilt. Joe Montana got traded. Okay, Lou Al Cinder. I mean, Milwaukee got a boatload of picks, but it's like, guys, people get traded. So it was the return or lack thereof that was truly egregious. I said, if you gave me AD, you gave me Austin.

Reeves and three or four first round picks, oh, I'd sleep on it. Because guys who are not in great shape, Luca age more quickly. Westbrook actually feels like he's getting better in this series against the clipper. He's in impeccable shape. LeBron's lasting forever. Brady lasted forever in a sport you get tackled. Luca had missed back-to-back camps. Here's an interesting stat.

The staff found this morning, Luca's rookie year. he had 25 dunks. Last two years combined, he's had two. There's a decline, and a lot of it is, he's just not in great shape. There is reason for pause

if you have to pay him $75 million. Because MJ in his prime got you trophies. LeBron in his prime got you guaranteed to the finals. Luke in his prime, he's going to get you buckets and give up just about as many on some nights.

And I've said this about the NFL before. There are three quarterbacks. You know, Mahomes, Josh Allen, Lamar Jackson. I'm not even taking a phone call. But when Joe Burrow got his second serious injury, I'll pick up the phone. I don't want to trade Burrow. I don't need to trade Burrow.

It's nothing I'm thinking about what you got. Four first rounders. And I love Burrow. I love Jalen Hertz. I'll pick up the phone. Not picking up the phone with Lamar Allen, you know. I think a lot of people would pick up the phone now for Trevor Lawrence, and he was great.

So I just think it's not the idea of trading a player who is lobsided, who was increasingly injured, more from Zach Lowe here. You can find corners of smart NBA people, team people, who would tell you, The idea of getting out ahead of this and trading Luca is not a crazy idea. The idea of doing it without shopping him to get nine first round draft picks and swaps and doing this specific trade is where the logic falls apart. No question.

But you just start looking at the history of sports. It's hard to find great players. I mean, even Michael Jordan on the second three Pete, the Bulls had decided, yeah, this is the last one, the greatest basketball player ever. I mean, Miami started pushing back on the broad. We're not going to give you everything you want. He was a guaranteed trip to the finals, and half the time it felt like you were a favorite heading into the finals.

So it's just they didn't get enough back. But if you're a Laker fan watching Luca, you're now seeing the truth. And your, Nico Harrison saw that at practice. He saw it on the road. He saw it in film study. He saw the injuries. He saw the massive decline in dunks in vertical basketball. It's all there.

If you watch, it's all there. J-Mac with the news. No, no, no, no. Turn on the news. This is the herd line news. All right, Colin, let's start with what I think was what a phenomenal story last night. Bucks Pacers, great game, but overshadowed by this nonsense afterward. And I feel so bad for Tyrese Halliburton because his dad turned into a buffoon after the game.

Confronted Janus was waving a towel in front of his face from a few feet away, apparently cursing at him. And Janice has had enough. Janice decided I'm going to approach this guy and say some stuff. Here's what Janice and Halliburton had to say about the incident afterward. What I think I'll say is that I believe, like being humbled in victory. That's how I am. I love Tyrus.

I think he's a great competitor. He was his dad, sorry. Coming in the floor and showing me his son at a tower with his face, this is what we do. This is what we effing do. this if we do this I feel like that's very very disrespectful the emotions of the game just got excited there but I talk with him I'll talk with yonis eventually about it just you know I don't think that my pop was in the right at all there yeah it's been a bad couple weeks for dads Niko Maliava's dad Shadur Sanders dad Haliburton's dad like it's been a over the top it's just like

it's just, you know, it's hard because I've said this before. I'm objective about everything except my kids. Nobody's objective totally about their kids, and you want to be very protective. But we've had a bad dad stretch here. It's tough being a dad. Let's be real. Now, to defend Halliburton's dad just a little, he did apologize, you know, as quickly as it took after the game on social media for his actions.

I am surprised, Colin, that Pacer's security just let guys in the front row walk on the court. What is that? And by the way, Milwaukee Bucks, you got a franchise superstar who everybody in the league knows is probably on his way out. You don't like rush over to protect him when you see that? Like, Yonnas had to take this for like 15 seconds at the beginning. Very strange. And Colin, again, I'm going to go back to it.

You and I disagreed Monday. But the physicality in the NBA playoffs is getting people amped up. There is a gladiator vibe to some of these games. I don't like it. And I'm telling you, we saw Rockets Warriors was very close to an altercation. Jimmy Butler, Draymond, Dylan Brooks, obviously. But all these series are getting super physical and the reps need to step in. Or we're going to see something ugly.

I'm just putting on warning. The league needs to do something. Well, it's a fine line because you don't want, I mean, obviously the NBA All-Star game is embarrassing for the league. I mean, like Adam Silver's like, this is embarrassing. And the regular season, you get like load management and apathy. That's not good either. So let me defend the league here. this is working from a ratings perspective and an interest i mean i can't even the game like

boston was winning big last night the games are physical they're hard to turn your i mean nick's pistons if you turn it on it's hard to turn off all these games have clippers nuggets you turn that thing on in the third quarter you can't turn it off it's like every it's like football every every down matters but there is a line on it and so my take is um i think the nba is watching this and watching it progress i'm like you i can't I can't believe security's not there. But in the end, I think right now it's working, but it is a line. I mean, we see NFL officials.

You know this, J. Mack. All officiating crews officiate differently. Some call pass interference, some don't. And so you also have in the NBA, there are some officials that road teams love. Yes. They don't get influenced by the home crowd. Steve Javvy may have been one of those officials work. Road teams did okay.

Like he was not one of these guys intimidated by the crowd. So every officiating crew officiates a little differently. Just like in the NFL, remember the Chiefs' bills when they announced, like, who the referees were, it was a big story. When they're doing that in the NBA, you know it's not great when the focus leading up to the game. For instance, Lakers Timberwolves tonight is like, who are the refs? Like that, that's not what you want for the NBA. All right, let's go to the NFL, Colin where the league has announced that the Atlanta Falcons have been fined 250 large and defensive coordinator Jeff Obrick, $100,000 in response to Obrick's son prank calling Shador Sanders on draft day.

The NFL attributed to the fines to failing to prevent the disclosure of confidential information distributed to the club. Now, besides this, Adam Schaefters come out with other guys who prank called. I saw Abdul Carter was Tyler Warren. Obviously not a great look for the Falcons here. And some people are starting to put stuff together on the Falcons. They've had a lot of these fines for just not being buttoned up over the last, I think, like, nine years. I thought the media overreacted a little bit to this, but I think these are appropriate fines. Kids do dumb stuff, but I have no problem fining the Falcons a quarter, you know, $250,000.

I have no problem with that, like, do a better job. I have no problem with Jeff Ulbitt being fine. 21-year-old kids do dumb stuff. You put things in front of 21-year-old men. they're going to steal them sometimes and do dumb stuff and have bad judgment. I think I don't want to be too punitive on the kid who did something really dumb. He did apologize. But I got no problem finding the team and the coach.

That to me feels appropriate. Okay, so my issue is who cares about a fine? Arthur Blank is what a billionaire? There's $250,000 is nothing. He finds that in his sofa cushions. Take away a draft pick. Tell me if every computer's not locked and locked down leading up to next year's draft. Take away a draft pick.

That's a real punitive fine. Well, no, because here's the thing. Like a spy gate feels like a plan of attack by a team take away a draft pick. A kid stealing a phone number off a laptop doesn't feel like it was planned by and, but it's just a mistake. So, I mean, again, when you have something called gate, okay, that's different. I'll take a draft pick. That sounds like top down there was a plan. Like they thought deflategate was that.

That was nonsense. Spygate, though, let's be honest about that. Premeditated. Okay, this isn't premeditated. It's a mistake in life, and we all make them. That's fair. That's a good counter by you. All right.

Final story, Colin, speaking of the Falcon, so they did trade back into the first round with the Rams, giving the Rams next year, 2006, an extra first. So they have two first next year. Obviously, this leads to speculation. How old is Matthew Stafford? You know, he's getting Social Security checks starting this summer. Okay, what does that all mean?

Well, Diana Rusini reports less need in L.A. made the move to get the extra first next year, possibly with eyes on one Arch Manning. Your thoughts? Well, outside of failing to draft a corner, they have a roster next year built to give up both firsts. I mean, next year they have two firsts, a second, a third, two-fifths, two-six, two-sevons.

They have been eyeing this for three years. They knew Stafford was aging. I told you this. They thought Jackson Dart was a good player. They did not think this. Les Need was honest about it. They did not think this was a year to get a starting quarterback. They weren't going to move up to get Cam Ward who I thought was really good.

This, Stedler's felt the same way. This was a backup year. A lot of Kyle McCordes out there. A lot of Riley-Lennards. It's a backup year. But if you look at the Rams' draft fix next year, year. They can give up two firsts, a second, two fifths, to move up. Because their roster, especially on defense, J-Mack, they've got all those young guys under

contract, they're not paying them. So they have a chance here to give somebody a boatload of picks. You know, by the way, they have Atlanta's pick. They may not have to move up that far. I mean, what if Atlanta ends up drafting ninth? Is that shock you? Well, Penix, you know, we'll see with Pennix and Bijon Rob. They got good dudes. I like the defense. I think they win the division. But yes, there is a world where they win seven games because they're the –

Yes. They're the Atlanta Falcons, and that's what they do. Also, there is a saturation point in the NFL. Very few teams needed a quarterback this year. Go to next year. Now the Titans are off the board. The Giants are off the board for at least two years with Jack. Who? Pittsburgh ran.

Although, what if Stafford with this loaded roster knocks it out of the park? So it just so happens, Colin. Fox asked me to do a 2006 NFL mock draft. I submitted it last night. I'm going to put some – stop laughing. Some teams that could be in the mix. Obviously the Jets after Justin Fields. The Giants, if Daibald and Shane get fired, I'm sorry.

Jackson Dart is not going to be – the new guy is going to want his own quarterback. Carolina with Bryce Young. This will be year three for Bryce Young. It's a make-a-break year for him. We'll see with the New Orleans Saints. It's potentially a quarterback rich draft. When it goes live, I'll send it to you. I know you're interested.

But I don't think. But I don't think. I think the Clemson quarterback could go two or three. Really? You like him that much? I like him better than most of this year's quarterbacks. I don't love him, but I like him. Drew Aller at Penn State.

I like him. I don't love him. You know, I think there's three guys right now that if they embrace, prove which 22-year-old kids usually do, they could all be first-round high, first-round quarterbacks. There's a couple SEC guys in there you're missing. And also, hey, Carson Beck transfers to Miami. It's supposed to be the number one pick this year.

Remember a year ago? Everybody's gassed up about him? I don't know. I don't have him in mine first round. I'll just put that out there. He's got some work to do. J-Mack with the news. Well, that's the news.

And thanks for stopping by. The Hurd-Lie News. Greg CoSell, top of the hour, so we'll go back and look at some of this stuff on multiple quarterbacks. So last night, Denver beat the Clippers, and they kind of pulled away, better energy. But say what you will about Russell Westbrook. He plays, every time he's on the floor, sometimes to his detriment, he plays with unbelievable energy, the kind of energy that if you play with Westbrook and you don't play hard, do you feel guilty.

The guy's also hitting three-point shots. So I don't know what's going on there. But James Hardin, who's more gifted offensively, was a hologram. Where did he go? He was invisible. He had no energy, and therefore, either did the clippers. So Westbrook, in the first half, had 16 points in 13 minutes. And again, he's doing it rebounding, driving.

He is really the tone-setter. Because you get into these games, the altitude, you're going from L.A., you're going to Denver. I mean, listen, now I get tired after one flight. These teams going back and forth. Energy guys become really important. And Westbrook is arguably the best energy guy in the league right now as an older player. Now, again, it's to his detriment a lot.

But he set the tone last night. And this is one of the downsides of Kauai Leonard. He's a tremendous talent. Not a leader, not really a tone center. You just get you a bucket and a stop. but this was a night that the Clippers needed leadership. They needed leadership. They needed heavy emotion because Westbrook stole all the emotion on the floor in the first half.

Then he handed the baton to Jamal Murray, who had the best half of his career. And sometimes guys get hot. I mean, Kauai earlier in this series had a half. You just can't stop him. But Westbrook deserves a ton. Murray's stuff is obvious. But it was a great example of why we don't. trust the Clippers. Harden, just not engaged. Kauai can be distant, aloof, quiet,

nonverbal. Last night, they needed verbal. They needed leadership. They needed Kauai to call out James Harden. So, I mean, it just, but I go back to Westbrook. And I've been critical of him. He's suddenly now, he's always been a confidence player, like when it goes, south, it goes south fast. And when he's hot, he gets really hot. But like, I'm watching him shoot threes, and I'm like, yeah, I'm comfortable with it. I've never felt that with Westbrook. But this series, Russell deserves a ton of credit.

Playoff games are hard. We've seen good teams come into these games and have bad halves. And it was like Westbrook last night would not allow it. He would not allow a bad half. and the Clippers just came in with a lot of nothing. And we tried to be fair on this show. Here was Russ on the win. I always tell myself before every night to have fun,

and my fun may look a little different than everybody else's. It may not be with a smile. It may not be running around, slapping hands. But when I'm intense and I'm competing at the high level, I'm having the best time, and that to me is the best part of the game. And even a year of 17, I still have so much fun going on competing. And I'm a competitor and one of the best competitors in the world.

And I live for moments and live to talk a little mess and competing along with it. It's a great line. My fun may look a little different than everybody else's fun. But, I mean, yes, Jamal Murray was on fire. And great players. Tatum's had one of these. Kauai's had one of these Yokic, aunt. You know, these great players take over games.

But I'm going to give Westbrook all the credit in the world because that first half, he set the absolute tone for the game. And I don't know where he found confidence in a stroke and a three-pointer. He's hit some big ones in this series. It's the herd. Be sure to catch live editions of the herd weekdays in noon Eastern 9 a.m. Pacific.

Hey, Steve Kavino. And I'm Rich David. And together we're Kavino and Rich on Fox Sports Radio. You could catch us weekdays from 5 to 7 p.m. Eastern, 2 to 4 Pacific on Fox Sports Radio and, of course, the IHeart Radio app. Why should you listen to Covino and Rich? We talk about everything, life, sports, relationships, what's going on in the world? We have a lot of fun talking about the stories behind the stories in the world of sports and pop culture. Stories that, well, other shows don't seem to have the time to discuss. And the fact that we've been friends for the last 20 years and still work together, I mean, that says something, right? So check us out. We like to get you involved, too. Take your phone calls, chop it up as they say. I'd say the most interactive show on Fox Sports Radio.

Maybe the most interactive show on Planet Earth. Be sure to check out Covino & Rich live on Fox Sports Radio and the IHeart Radio app from 5 to 7 p.m. Eastern, 2 to 4 Pacific. And if you miss any of the live show, just search Covino and Rich, wherever you get your podcast and, of course, on social media. That's Cabino and Rich. Hey, it's us to Jonas Brothers, and guess what? We have some big news.

What's the news, huge news? We created our own podcast called, Hey Jonas. We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to... We're the first people to do podcasts. Pretty, yeah, pretty wide range of podcasts throughout there. But this one's extra special.

So how do we actually come up with a name, Hey, Jonas, guys? I honestly don't remember. I think it was on a call about what we should call it. Well, we were thinking I'm originally calling it one of the early names of our band. Before Jonas Brothers was... This is how you guys remember it going down? Yes. I have a very different memory of this.

We were talking about a thing, a bit for the podcast, people could call in and say, hey, Jonas. And then I wrote down on my little notepad, Hey Jonas, and offered it up as a potential title for the podcast. But thanks for remembering that, guys. Listen to Hey Jonas on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it.

Another podcast from some SNL late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends, me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform?

We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The French Open is one of the toughest tests in tennis, and I know firsthand, because I think, competed there myself. I'm Renee Stubbs, and on the Renee Stubbs tennis podcast, I'm breaking down

everything happening at Roland Garris, every match, every upset, and what it really takes to win on Clay. Jenschen went. I mean, she went down to three to Rabakina, but I'm delighted. She's an outsider to win the French for me. And she likes Clay. Listen, Lena Rabakina is arguably the best player in the world right now, and I actually can win on any surface, because if she's serving, well, good luck. Consider this your court-side seat to the French Open. Listen to the Renee Stubbs Tennis podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHeart Women's Sports.

Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all. embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth.

Listen to Superhuman on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Saturday, 70s turn on Fox. So, you know, we've discussed on this show that the NBA, it's not a problem, but many of their best players, it feels like a majority of the top. four or five players are international, and it would probably be beneficial to have a great domestic player. And I do believe that Jason Tatum and Aunt have kind of separated over the last two weeks as the top two domestic players. And it's taken Jason Tatum eight years. They just beat the magic. They knocked him out. Tatum had a remarkable series. It's taken him eight years,

but he feels like the star. We were told he was four years ago. And it's all about confidence. I mean, if he had Russell Westbrook's confidence, we'd have seen this three or four years ago, because he's always had the game. But he's one of those guys that has always let too often the game come to him. He doesn't have this irrational confidence that sometimes is a benefit to be a superstar. He's really smart. He's really patient. And I think that can work against you in the NBA. If you look at the first quarter scoring against Orlando, it's his best ever. Why? It's not because he's more talented.

first quarter scoring is about confidence. He's going for the knockout. He is a confident boxer. He's going for the knockout. And I think, and I really believe this was held and has been held against Steph Curry before. Because Steph like Tatum can defer. Smart, patient. And in 2025, attention, getting attention in my business.

in the NBA, it's currency. And Steph's just great. Married, kids, quiet. He doesn't seek attention. His game provides it. Tatum's the same way. Kind of a smart, thoughtful, patient guy can defer to others at times. He's not seeking clicks.

And NBA fans historically, they reward aggression. Michael Jordan punched a teammate. People are like, yeah, it's my guy. And like, I get it. And that's not Tatum. He's just a very thoughtful guy. I don't like the fact that for years he let the game come to him. I think my criticism was fair.

Like, dude, go get the game. You're the best player on the floor. I've been to three or four games, Celtic games. He's always the first guy out. He's worked on his game. It's finally too. He was this good last year. But he didn't play with this confidence last year.

He's always been a very collaborative guy for the record. Steph Curry, despite his talent, it's been very collaborative. KD, you take the shot. A couple nights ago, pods, Butler, you take the shot. And I think it's hurt, Steph. We like our NBA stars,

and we like our NFL stars to be alpha and aggressive and sometimes not always nice. But, I mean, I'm watching Tatum in this series and he was this talent to the year ago or two years ago. But his confidence, he is a, attacking the game. First quarter. This is my team, my ball. And that's exactly what we were

waiting for last year. It's not like he came out with four new moves. He's just a more aggressive version of last year's Tatum. Here he is after the win. You know, this season was like the most relaxed and carefree that I've been in my career. Understanding that, you know, we won last year and we accomplished the ultimate goal. And you kind of, you kind of got that monkey off your back. So, you know, obviously the goal is still the same this year to win and compete for a championship. But, you know, I've just enjoyed this season of, you know, playing care-free basketball. I mean, even there, he's just chill.

You know, he just sit there and answer questions, but he plays. Here's the other thing that the NBA's got going for at J-Mack. Both Tatum and Ant are not load management guys. those dudes play hard. That matters. I've said this. I think a lot of NBA ratings talk is nonsense, but I do think load management is awful.

When NBA guys are making $28 million a year, and you take your family, people want to see guys play. Tatum plays every night. Ant plays every night. It matters. So I think... 25 years old.

Come on. Of course I've got to play every night. But I do think, I do want to applaud you. Nice job for finally giving Jason Tatum as props. I mean, 22, 7 and 7 in the NBA finals, wasn't enough for you. Average 31 in the conference finals last year

when they swept the Pacers, get the brooms out. Listen, Tatum versus Ant, I think you're trying to make it a thing here. I like it. I think those are the best two young players in the game. Then Cooper Flag and Wemba, you know, will change that equation a little bit.

But American, I think you're right. Tatum and Aunt Edwards are just awesome, fascinating young players. Listen, the NBA ratings, they're still international stars crushing. but market size does help. It does matter that the Lakers, San Francisco, the Knicks, the Celtics, it does matter. If you take out the NFL, market size matters and domestic stars matter. It does.

Like Otani, it's great. But you know what also is great? Aaron Judge. I'm sorry, that's great too. So it's, listen, if you look at Olympic ratings, Canadians are thoughtful people. They're rooting for Canadians to win in the Olympics. We're rooting for Americans. Italians are rooting for Italians.

That's not xenophobic. That's pride. We're all a little patriotic and tribal. We want our domestic basketball stars. And the other thing we have to be about Tatum and Ant. I've said this. Three years ago, almost every GM probably would have taken John Morant over Ant. Yeah.

But the difference is this league thought they did have Tatum and Ant. Zion and John Morant. Everybody thought in the league office, we got our guys, maturity struggle with both. Both and Samson, some off-court stuff, but the guy plays hard. He's a good kid. He's a good teammate.

What guys do when they get rich at 22, I'm not going to be really highly judgmental. He's not getting, you know, he plays his butt off. He's a good teammate. He's a good kid. There's hiccups. But it does matter that Celtics, T-Wolves, domestic players being great,

it helps the league. There's no doubt. I do want to say you took a couple jabs at jalen brunson earlier saying he's not in this class. I will say there is a curry element to jalen Brunson where fans can look at him and be like, how is this guy the most clutch player in the league? He's like a six foot one point card with a mid-range game, which is a throwback, and he's kind of like the inverse of Curry who was hitting 30 footers. I think Brunson's in that class of American young-ish players that fans love.

Jalen Brunson is so clutch, a winner, head down, no drop. I'm off the court. He's in that class, buddy. In popularity, absolutely. But if you're telling me, Tatum and Brunson take in order, he's third on everybody's list. I'm not talking likeability. Through the roof. Villanova guys are all, I mean, we literally, there's a term in the NBA, Villanova guy. So, like, I think Brunson's great.

And by the way, he can be a 1A. I think if you went Janice Brunson, that just feels like a team that can get to the finals. Cat Brunson OG doesn't, not with Cleveland and Boston. I mean, remember, the Knicks went 0 for 10, Cab's Celtic Thunder. Like, they're not there. They're just not there. It doesn't seem like they'll be able to take down the Celtics. That would be a tall order.

I mean, maybe they get two games for Boston? Can they get two? Assuming they got by Detroit. Sorry, not to disrespect. Yeah, I was going to say, I'd slow down on the projection for the Knicks. I mean, think about this. A year ago, the Pistons were in a rebuild. the Knicks got McAil and thought

we're beaten Boston and now they're the same team. I think the Knicks are a little better, but last night the numbers tell you it's the same stuff. I mean, the Knicks, I think, just have, I feel like there are times Cade Cunningham really becomes important in every game.

I do feel like if Cat didn't play particularly great, McHale Bridges, Josh Hart, OG, Brunson, they could win a game where Cat was off. I mean, like, the pistons margins are smaller. Like if Cade Cunningham doesn't play well, they're not winning a game. They just don't have, Tobias Harris, the limitations there. I'll say the Knicks shot 59% on free throws, and you just can't do that. And the other thing, for the second night in a row, we saw the hack of Shack employed.

They got Mitchell Robinson, who's a good rebounder, good defender. They got him off the court. And then there's no rim protection for the Knicks, because we know Cat can't block shots at the rim. So I thought it was smart coaching by Bickerstaff. Detroit is on the come up. And by the way, Cade Cunningham over John Morant, we called that, I think, last week. It's not even close anymore. Cade Cunningham is a player.

Yeah, well, Cade Cunningham also has, and this matters. This has never been a small man's league in terms of winning titles. Cade's a big professional athlete. I said this to you last week. If you walked into a party in New York, and you didn't follow sports, and you looked at Jalen Brunson, you're like, oh, what do you do? If Cade Cunningham was in the room, you're like, oh, who's the pro athlete? Like he's just, he looks, Justin Herbert looks like a professional app.

You don't have anybody that are 6, 5, 240, and ripped. Most of us don't, right? Okay, Greg Kosell coming up, an interesting news with Eli Manning and the New York Giants. Hey, guys, it's us, the Jonas Brothers. I'm Joe. I'm Kevin. And I'm Nick, and guess what?

We created our own podcast called, Hey, Jonas. We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to it. First people to do podcasts. We get to ask other people questions because we're sick and tired of being asked questions. Well, sick and tired is a strong way to put it, but, you know, tired and sick.

Tired and sick. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smigel and Friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's,

Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever

you get your podcasts. Winning on Clay is an art. The rallies are relentless and at the French Open, only the toughest survive. I'd know I competed there for decades. Join me, Renee Stubbs, on the Renee Stubbs tennis podcast for no nonsense break of the biggest matches, the toughest players, and the moments set to find Roland Garris.

She's an outsider to win the French name. And she likes Clay. Listen, Lennarabakina is arguably the best player in the world right now, and I actually can win on any surface. Listen to the Renee Stubbs tennis podcasts on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHeart Women's Sports. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque.

Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast.

Guaranteed Human. Thank you.