The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Hour 1 - Head Coach-QB Combos

Episode Date: June 13, 2025

Colin shares his top “Head Coach – Quarterback Combos” in the NFL right now and argues Aaron Rodgers and Mike Tomlin not making the list is the reason why they aren’t a serious playoff team this season He defends former Knicks head coach Tom Thibodeau after getting fired and why this was clearly a mistake after New York had their best season in over 2 decades More on Shedeur Sanders at Browns campSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. Hey guys, it's us. The Jonas Brothers. I'm Joe. I'm Kevin. And I'm Nick. And guess what? We created our own podcast called, Hey Jonas.

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that's really not safe to have anywhere, but you're having them with a licensed professional who knows what he's doing. How many men carry a suit or armor. It signals to the world that you not to be played with. And just because you have the capability that does not mean that you need to, Listen to learn the hard way on the AHA radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. I'm Michelle McPhee, and I've been unraveling the strangest criminal alliance I've ever reported on. A Mormon polygamist and an Armenian businessman. Multi-million dollar house, Ferraris and Lamborghinis, private jets, a billion dollar fraud. But how long can this alliance last?

Tell me what you know. Is somebody coming after me? Listen to Kingdom of Fraud on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Thanks for listening to The Heard podcast. Be sure to catch us live every weekday on Fox Sports Radio in noon to 3 Eastern, 9 a.m. to noon Pacific. Find your local station for the herd at Fox Sports Radio.com or stream us live every day on the IHeart Radio app by searching Fox Sports Radio or FSR. You're listening to Fox Sports Radio. Oh, here we go. It is a Friday. It is great to have you in. Jay Mack and I ready to roll on a Friday. Jay Mack tonight, of course, game for, pivotal game for the NBA finals. I am falling in love with this Indiana Pacer team. We'll have Rick Buecker on next hour to talk some of that. You know, Jay Mack, it is the summer of love in the NFL because we had the comments. Combine. And then we had the draft and nobody has a bad draft. Everybody gets an A or a B, right? Nobody's got a bad draft. And then we got OTAs. Oh, whew! These guys are amazing. And I want to talk about that. It's the summer of love. I saw this story this morning. Aaron Rogers blares the headline and Mike Tomlin form a unique Super Bowl partnership. Okay dokey. I saw another story. Bo Nix is playing fast.

Here's another one. One of his teammates in Minnesota says J.J. McCarthy, who has never played an official NFL regular season game, reminds him of another quarterback. He understands that we have to build a family here and that, you know, you can't have unique results without unique relationships that we believe in. And then, man, he's got some confidence. And he reminds me of, like, Josh Allen when I was with him in Buffalo coming into his own and understanding the power that he has to lead this organization. and he's doing a fantastic job doing that. J.J. McCarthy reminds him of Josh Allen. Okay, that's a little hot for me.

Here's what's really going to happen this regular season, and all of us know it, is that this league is now, because of rule changes, a 70-30 quarterback coach league. As great as Andy Reed is, he only started hoisting trophies when he got Patrick Mahomes. Now it may be a 65-35-league quarterback coach. It may be a 75-25, but it's about a 70-30 swing.

So if you have a star quarterback and he has at least a B coach, he's going to make the playoffs. If you have a really good quarterback with an A coach, he's probably going to make the playoffs. So these are not my playoff predictions. But this is what I believe makes the playoff. playoffs generally, either a star quarterback with a B coach or better, or an A coach with a really, really good quarterback that is often young and getting better. The first group, in my opinion, the five best quarterbacks in the NFL are Patrick Mahomes, Matt Stafford, Josh Allen, Lamar Jackson, and Joe Burrow. I know you don't love Zach Taylor, but he got to a Super Bowl.

He's had a lot of big wins for a young coach. I think he's bright. I don't always love his clock management, but I didn't like Andy Reid's before he had a great quarterback. I'm going to go, they'll make the playoffs. The next group, Jaden, Daniels, Justin Herbert, C.J. Stroud, Hertz, and Gough. I know, I know, Nick Sariani. Don't love him, but if you win a Super Bowl, I got to make you a B coach. The team buys into him. And then the third group, and it's mostly a group where I love the coach, Jordan,

Love and Matt Lafleur, Bo Nix and Sean Payton, Brock Purdy and Kyle Shanahan, and Drake and Vrable. This group, I generally like the quarterback. I like the coach more than the quarterback, but the quarterback's good enough. These are not my playoff predictions, but mine are pretty darn close to this. And my get, now, I don't have Donald or Baker or Gino, and they're really close. Or Caleb. Those guys were next in line.

You know who's not? Aaron Rogers and Mike Tomlin because Aaron's not close to his prime and Mike doesn't make quarterbacks better. And as much as we talk about the revelation of J.J. McCarthy or or or the special relationship in Pittsburgh, this is an incredibly predictable league. And in the AFC with a higher end quarterbacks, it's even easier. Last couple of years, it's been a really easy conference to predict division winners. Again, I had Donald Close. and I actually have Darnold in the playoffs. Gino's close.

I think he is Darnal. I got Caleb close, love his coach. But by and large, all this summer of love, we all kind of know what it's going to look like by the first week of February. All right, so maybe the biggest story of the week has been the Knicks firing Tibbs. That was a couple of weeks ago.

but it's interesting yesterday I'm hearing some of the next players like Jalen Brunson saying hey this guy deserves love well of course he does but when you fire somebody um my my wife used to work in HR and I remember when I first met her 20 years ago and she said something she had worked in the hiring business she said overwhelmingly people fire themselves they know it's coming well I don't think Tibbs knew it was coming and I don't think he fired himself and here's why. I keep hearing this. You know, the Knicks weren't creative enough offensively. The Knicks, the Knicks made some moves and didn't get better. So last year at this time, one calendar year from today, they had Dante DiVincenzo. They not only had him, he was their number one three-point shooter. They had Julius Randall, who was their number two playmaker behind Brunson, number two in scoring, number two, and assists. They also had Isaiah Hartinstein, their starting center, big-time energy guy. So any team that loses their best three-point shooter in a three-point shooting league,

their number two playmaker and a high-energy starting center, you would think, boy, that's going to be rough. The Knicks were actually better in the regular season, went further in the playoffs, and were actually slightly better offensively in net ratings, seven to five. It's like the Knicks fired their trainer because they only lost 12. pounds and they wanted to lose 15. Yeah, maybe your diet's not good enough. That's why the Tibbs thing has always been about personnel. I like Mikhail Bridges, but he's not consistent offensively. I like Kat. He's bad defensively. But certainly not as good as Hardenstein.

So my take on this whole thing is generally, and I think my wife was right, people do fire themselves, right they're inconsistent they're not reliable they're toxic they're just not very good but kib's actually one more games regular season one more games in the playoffs and was slightly

better offensively losing his number two playmaker his best three-point shooter and I would argue Hartenstein is a more complete center than Robinson who's all defense or cat who's all offense and Paul Pierce talked about this yesterday

when you look at the likes of Indiana. When you look at Boston and teams of that nature in the Eastern Conference, these guys had depth. And that's something that the Knicks were front heavy. So I think he maxed out the roster. So I don't think a coach coming in, the roster is what the roster is. It's not the coach.

You're going to have to get more pieces for this team to get over the hump. I don't care who you bring in. You can bring in Red Allback. You can bring in Field Jackson. This team maxed out. And what's interesting is, of all the teams that Kevin Durant is rumored to be going to, there's four that are getting mentioned, the Knicks are one of those teams, meaning even New York Nick fans, New York Nick media and NBA insiders believe they could really use another catch-and-shoot guy.

So you're acknowledging the personnel isn't quite right. And beyond all of this is the fact that. you and I are watching the Indiana Pacers. They've got more good players. Miles Turner is a better rim defender than Robinson and a better center, better offensively. Pascal Seyakum, to me, I would rather have him on the floor than Cat. Halliburton, to me, is a more complete guard than Jalen Brunson. And they've got a couple of other players who shoot threes more consistently, it feels like to me,

than McHale Bridges. Indiana's got better players. You could say, well, they got a better coach. Well, he's been fired twice, too. So when I look at Indiana and I look at the Knicks, and the Knicks gave, I mean, the Nicks gave the Pacers more trouble than Cleveland did, more trouble than Milwaukee did,

and about the same level of trouble, Oklahoma City is. So if you start watching, I mean, remember that ball that bounced high into the air and went in for the Pacers? Some felt that was the difference in the series for a while. So the tips thing is it's not just that the Knicks didn't have the next coach in waiting is you're acknowledging it's a personnel issue. That's why you want KD. They got better in the regular season, better in the playoffs, and a slightly better net rating.

I don't know. That feels like a job promotion, not a pink slip. All right, J-Mack. We've got a lot of things going on today. You know, tonight's game, what's the number? In fact, I think it's OKC's a big favorite tonight, right? OKC minus six. Now, it's dipped to five and a half in some spots.

Obviously, I'm shocked that the market didn't move yesterday when I said I'm on the Pacers in game four. But, you know, whatever. I'm surprised you haven't picked the game yet, Colin. I don't feel, I'm not going to bet against Indiana here. We both loved Indiana in game three. Just think about what could happen tonight in American sports. everybody, you know, the people that cover this league in the locker rooms day and day out,

if you would have pulled the coaches and the gyms, nobody would have picked Indiana to win the championship. They were not favored against first rounder Milwaukee. Now, I think we both loved them over Milwaukee. We thought it was a great matchup for them. I didn't like him over Cleveland. You did. New York, Indiana, I kind of liked Indiana, but it was slight, and I liked Oklahoma City. Think about all the knowledge in the NBA.

the media, the coaches, the GMs, if you'd have polled all of them, including the players. Remember, Halliburton was voted most overrated player. Nobody would have picked the Pacers to win the championship. And if they win tonight, they will be up 3-1, and I think that the numbers are something like 88%, 92% winning. If they win that game, which, by the way,

they have been the much better fourth-quarter team. Oklahoma City is clearly younger and not as good on the road. and Halliburton right now is once again like he did against Milwaukee, Cleveland, and New York controlling the pace of the series. OKC, by the way, 0 and 8 against the spread on the road. Have not covered one road game in the postseason. Yet for some reason, everybody's obsessed with their season-long net rating.

Everybody's got OKC tonight. Colin, I don't see it. Give me the Pacers once again. Teams are 37 and 1 in the finals when leading 3 to 1. If Indiana wins tonight, folks, What a revelation that nobody in the league, no GM, I mean, outside of Indiana's group, nobody would have picked them. Which I guess this is the NBA Adam Silver wanted. I know the ratings aren't great.

I find it interesting. Be sure to catch live editions of the herd weekdays in noon Eastern 9 a.m. Pacific on Fox Sports Radio, FS1 and the IHeart Radio app. Hey, it's us to Jonas Brothers. And guess what? We have some big news. What's the news, huge news? We created our own podcast. called Hey Jonas.

We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to our... We're the first people to do podcasts. Pretty, yeah, pretty wide range of podcasts throughout there. But this one's extra special. So how did we actually come up with a name Hey Jonas, guys? I honestly don't remember.

I think it was on a call about what we should call it. Well, we were thinking I'm originally calling it one of the early names of our band. Before Jonas Brothers was... This is how you guys remember it. down? Yes. I have a very different memory of this. We were talking about a thing, a bit for the podcast, where people could call in and say, Hey, Jonas. And then I wrote down on my little notepad, Hey Jonas,

and offered it up as a potential title for the podcast. But thanks for remembering that, guys. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman

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The French Open is one of the toughest tests in tennis, and I know firsthand, because I, competed there myself. I'm Renee Stubbs, and on the Renee Stubbs tennis podcast, I'm breaking down everything happening at Roland Garris, every match, every upset, and what it really takes to win on Clay. Jenschen, I mean, she went down in three to Rabakina, but I'm delighted. She's an outsider to win the French for me. And she likes Clay. Listen, Lena Rabakina is arguably the best player in the world right now, and I actually can win on any surface, because if she's serving, well, good luck. Consider this your court side seat to the French Open.

Listen to the Renee Stubbs tennis podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHeart Women's Sports. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full. year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth.

Listen to Superhuman on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. All right, you guys know I'm into the Shadour Sanders story, OTA's mini camps. So Mary Kay Cabot's a really good award-winning reporter in Cleveland through the years, probably the last 10, 15 years. If she says something or has insights, I tend to kind of lean on that. It's a very loud media So there's a lot of talk radio is big there in sports radio, but I trust Mary Kay Cabot. Not that I don't trust others, but I know her. So she made an observation yesterday on the quarterback duel that the coaching staff, Kevin Stavansky, again, a guy I really respect.

I think he's super bright. I really like him. That he is giving Dylan, Gabriel, and Kenny Pickett more of the offense. That's why their completion percentage is down. and that Shadur Sanders is getting more layups. They're not putting in quite the install with him. And her belief, it's an observation, which is, you know, it's an opinion with information,

is that basically the staff thinks Dylan Gabriel and Kenny Pickett are closer to starting. In terms of readiness, Shadur Sanders is number four. Now, what was kind of fascinating to me, not since Tim Tebow and Johnny Mansell, if we had a rookie quarterback that people were this divided on. Now, I didn't like Tebow. I didn't think he had the release or the arm.

I think I was right. I didn't like Manzell. I didn't think he had the maturity. I was absolutely right. I think in both instances, Shadur's mature enough. He's not disruptive. And I think his arm and his release are fine. But it is interesting to watch the opinions on this.

People are absolutely taking sides. So now, if you're not a Shadur fan, are two things that help your argument. Number one, Brian Daibol had an interview with Shadour, and I think Brian's really sharp. I don't blame the giant's problems on Brian Daibol. He may not be able to fix the issues, but I don't

think he's the leader of the issues or the primary reason. They went up to the whiteboard, and Shadour did not handle it well. That would concern me. The second thing is, Mary Kay K. Cabot's report is the coaches are giving him the easiest route because he's fourth in readiness. Well, he had a lot of college starts. What are you waiting for?

So I think that's fair. But there's always been this, you hear this all the time from business leaders that say, trust your gut. My dad was an optometrist. I trust my eyes. And my eyes tell me that Kenny Pickett's not a starting quarterback in the NFL, and Dylan Gabriel's too small and doesn't have the arm to be a starting quarterback. My eyes tell me that Joe Flacco right now is the best quarterback,

and Chador Sanders is number two. And so that's what my eyes tell me. And I watched Dylan Gabriel in college, and I thought, that's a hell of a college quarterback at Oklahoma and Oregon. I never thought him as a franchise quarterback in the NFL. I didn't think he got – I thought he was too small. So my eyes tell me Shadur's bigger, at least as good an arm, has escapability, and it's just a more natural athlete.

Here's Kevin Stafansky on Shadur's. progress so far. I sit right behind him. Joe is to my left, to Shador's left, and to see those two bounce ideas off of each other is hilarious. You know, Joe, we'll say a few things, and I'll be like, Joe, Shadur

wasn't born. He wasn't born then. So it's just, he's got great energy, great kid working his tail off, and he's playing really well, too. All right, there you go. So I'm just telling you what I saw, and I've said this about Jackson Dart. When I watch a guy in college, and I've done this forever, sometimes I turn the sound down. I just want to watch him. Just a visual. Watch. That's it. Just visual. I don't want to hear

announcers. I don't want any bias. Let me watch a guy. Do they look and feel like a starting quarterback in the NFL? Should do her Sanders did to me. Daniel Jones did not to me. Zach Wilson did not to me. You know, I, I, I, Marcus Mariotto was a very, very good college quarterback. I, I never quite thought that was going to work. But with Shadur, I just, my eyes tell me it's going to work. J-Mack with the news. No, no, no, no, no, turn on the news. This is the herd line news. All right, Colin, let's bust right into it. Game four is tonight, O KC at Indiana. The focus right now is on SGA. He did finish for 24 points in game three, but only four assists had six

turnovers, and Colin, I've got some late game numbers I'm going to give you on a second that are horrible for him. But here's what SGA said talking to the media yesterday. You got to suck it out. You have to, there's maximum four games left in this season. And it's what you work the whole season for. It's what you work all summer for. So to me, the way I see it is you got to suck it up. You got to suck it up. it done and try to get a win. Can you talk about this after game three about how tired he was because they were picking him up full court and putting him in action when he was on defense?

Colin, are these MVP numbers on the screen for a fourth quarter for SGA? Now, one game was a blowout, but games one and three were close and he's done nothing. Less than an assist in the fourth quarter in the NBA finals. Are you kidding me? I was thinking about this about SGA. They are not when I was watching the game. So let's just, I'm older than you, obviously, but if you think about the dynasties in the NBA, Bill Russell, Kareem, Magic Bird, Shack Kobe, LeBron, Steph, do I believe SGA historically is as good as any of those players?

What I'm asking you? No way. Okay, that was my point. And so SGA, like the 70s NBA, is in this space. where there's a lot of really exceptional players, Jason Tatum, SGA. But do they, look at the history of dynasties in the NBA. These are, like, there's like seven, eight, Russell, Kareem, Michael, Magic Bird, Steph, LeBron.

You see, you see what I'm saying here? To be in a dynasty, a multiple championship dynasty, they all have, And I think Tim Duncan, many think Tim Duncan would start on the all-time starting five at your power forward. They're all top 10 players ever. So as I like SGA, maybe we're just overstating the fact right now is that the talent in the NBA is so widespread that everybody's got, you know, the top teams all have several good players. Now, I think Yokic is an all-timer. Now, so that could splinter my argument because I do think Yokic is an all-timer. but SGA may be the leading score.

But we don't put him in the LeBron M.J. Bird class. So as he is struggling here and gets to his first finals, maybe we just need to pump the brakes and realize he is an exceptional player. He's not an all-timer. And that's one of the issues I have. When people are like SGA's getting to the mid-range like Kobe, whoa, we're taking a few leaps here. Somebody clipped off some ESPN reporter on a podcast saying,

If SGA wins, scoring title MVP, championship, and finals MVP, he's going to the Hall of Fame. And I saw it on social media. I was like, are you kidding? People are talking about SGA and the Hall of Fame. Colin, that's, and this is a larger issue with the NBA, that's how desperate they are to hype up this series. Let me ask you. Let me have to give me a break. Go to even the early days of Kareem and Russell and Magic and Bird and LeBron and MJ and St.

and Duncan. Would you even consider trading them? No. But SGA was a clipper and ended up in OKC. Now, you could say, well, he was a slow guy to develop. But if you look at the dynasties in league history, nobody was thinking to trading people. And SGA was a clipper.

That doesn't mean I don't think he's great. That doesn't mean he's an adult. He's a profound, profound offensive player. We all like him. But it is interesting. we've kind of moved him into an arena because of stats. James Hardin's offensive stats were through the roof. Let's just, I think those numbers that you point out in the fourth quarter

is that is a little alarming because of what the Pacers have shown, if you throw a lot of bodies at him, he wears down. Yeah, that's the strategy. And by the way, they started to double him. Because listen, as a basketball player, if you don't get the ball for a little bit and then you finally get it, you're looking to score. and the Pacers knew that, and they would send Obie Topin on the double, and SGA kept making bad, poor decisions.

Colin, I do have some bad news for the Pacers fans. They just announced that Scott Foster is going to be the referee tonight. You're familiar with this word. I see the groan. I see the grimace. Cowher is not happy. So some Pacers fans are already pulling the numbers. With Scott Foster, Indiana 6 and 13, allegedly that's their record.

I don't like this at all. We know Scott Foster's history. What is his history? He extends series. That's his joke. He's the extender. He comes in, hey, Scotty, we got some problems here. We need you to extend the series.

Let me defend. He's going to take 15 free throws tonight. Watch. Let me defend, Scott Foster. Oh, please try. So he's the series extender. Yeah. Could I not argue they put him on the biggest series,

and when you have a great series with two great teams, it's not a sweep. They don't put him on a crappy series. They put him in the best series with the best matchups and the best teams because he's competent. And those series, I mean, Michael Jordan, how many final sweeps did he have? None. So the truth is, Foster gets on better series, and those series always goes five or six or seven games. Scott Foster's like when the Chiefs don't get called for a holding penalty for like three Super Bowls.

That's where it's like Scott Foster stuff. I don't like this at all, but I'm optimistic. All right, let's go to the second story, Colin. this is a big meatball for you. Jalen Hertz, your guy, one of your favorite quarterbacks that's not 6'4. Hey, he's coming off a Super Bowl MVP destroying the Chiefs. Did you know this, Colin? Jalen Hertz is working with his sixth offensive coordinator in as many seasons,

and the media asked him about it. He'll be your sixth play caller, going back to Doug, your rookie year. Six? Six, right? I don't count. There is a dynamic of adaptability that you have to be able to have and find success regardless of what the leadership looks like, what the voice is, who's in a quarterback room coaching me or who's out there calling players.

Yeah, yeah, no big deal. Six offensive coordinators in six years. Meanwhile, Patrick Mahomes is just gifted Andy, Andy Reid. Yeah. Colin, we have some more stats for you in the Jalen Hertz argument. So since he entered the league in 2020, right? He is third in wins, third in total touchdowns, and third in total yards, only behind Josh Allen and Patrick Bahomes.

He's ahead of Joe Burrow. He's ahead of Lamar Jackson because he stays healthy. Jaylen Kurtz wins and scores touchdowns, and he's had six offensive coordinators in six years. First of all, don't marginalize me that I don't like him. I do like him. I think he's like the ninth, 10th best quarterback in the league, maybe eight. So, first of all, but if you were GM tomorrow, your GM, Burrow and Hertz are on the board, who do you take? Well, I guess I would lean Joe Burrow, but there's only four guys I would take over Jalen Hertz.

That's it. That's it. I mean, I don't know how you have C.J. Stroud over Jalen Hertz off one good season and the next season was eh. I'm stunning. I think Philadelphia. Philadelphia surrounds Jail and with pretty good players. Sixth offensive coordinator. My hot take of the day. Can you imagine if your radio show had six different producers in six years?

You'd be so frustrated. Final story, Colin, oh, here we go, Cowboys. Brian Schottenheimer. Boy, he is very fired up about this season. He doesn't care about the 7 and 10 mark last year. Schottenheimer believes they're going to be so good that teams are going to come and poach their coaching staff in the offseason. We look for opportunities for the younger coaches to get up in front of position groups

and lead meetings. do things and we give them projects all the time because we're going to win. And when we win, our coaching staff is going to get rated and people are going to come after our coaches because we're going to win. Yeah, I'm going to push back on that. I don't think that's going to happen. So you know what the joke is going to be all season. Brian Schottenheimer's initials are BS.

And it sounds like everything coming out of his mouth is pretty much that. I mean, Colin, their offensive coordinators are a gentleman named Clayton Adams. He was an offensive line coach in Arizona last year. Now, their D.C. you're probably familiar with. A fellow by the name of Iber Fluse, who was a good D.C. and Indy. And then he was a head coach in Chicago. And how did that work out? I'm spacing. No, it's, I think this is, and I think let's go back to why the Cowboys are in the dilemma they're in.

Mike McCarthy chose to leave the franchise. That should not be lost on anybody. Mike McCarthy left the Cowboys and he left them in somewhat of a lurch which I'm sure Jerry Jones is bitter about but just why would Mike McCarthy leave this franchise

and I don't know what Mike made but probably 7, 8 million a year somewhere about that in a state with no income tax why would he leave he would leave because he didn't like what he saw he knew Jaden Daniels was going to be a problem

so he would have a quarterback deficit, and he knows Philadelphia's roster. He's got about four guys that can start on it. This whole cowboy situation goes back to, ask yourself this, how many 50-plus-year-old head coach is making $7,8 million a year with a huge brand, opt to leave? That doesn't happen in pro, that does not happen in the NFL. This situation is much more dire than anybody wants to acknowledge in Dallas.

Mike McCarthy chose to leave. Doesn't work that way. When's the last time that happened? It's going to get ugly. Dude, it's going to get ugly in Dallas. Jay Mack with the news. Well, that's the news. And thanks for stopping by.

The Heard Lye News. You know, Jay Mack, I'm surprised you have not inquired about my dinner last night. Oh, I didn't want to put you on the spot, big guy. I was going to do it during the commercial break, but you want to talk to the audience about hanging out with some big wigs in Chicago? It's not hanging out with big wigs. I had been trying for the last month to meet the president of the Chicago Bears, Kevin Warren.

And I did last night. We had a great dinner and had a lot of people that we really liked or admired in common. Really good friends have people that I really like and rely on and trust. And he was really good friends with a lot of them. So it was a really, really fun dinner. He also brought maybe the best wine I've ever had in my life. But beyond that, there was a lot of information garnered last night. And there was also an interesting discussion.

He asked me my opinion on Caleb Williams and what it's going to take. And I'll share that with you. Having been in Los Angeles, he knew I was around the program. We talked about that, and I'll talk about that next. Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd, weekdays and noon Eastern, 9-8-8. Pacific. Hey, we're Kavino and Rich. Fox Sports Radio every day,

5 to 7 p.m. Eastern. But here's the thing. We never have enough time to get to everything we want to get to. And that's why we have a brand new podcast called Overpromised. You see, we're having so much fun in our two-hour show. We never get to everything. Honestly, because this guy is over-promising things we never have time for. Yeah, you blubber lips.

Blame and me. Well, you know what? It's called Over-Promise. You should be good at it because you've been over-promising women for years. Well, it's a Kavino and Rich. after show and we want you to be a part of it. We're going to be talking sports, of course, but we're also going to talk life and relationships.

And if Rich and I are arguing about something or we didn't have enough time, it will continue on our after show called Overpromised. Well, if you don't get enough, Kavino and Rich, make sure you check out Overpromised, and also uncensored, by the way. So maybe we'll go at it even a little harder. It's going to be the best after show podcast

of all time. There you go. Overpromising. And remember, you could see it on YouTube, but definitely join us. Listen to Overpromised with Kavino and Rich on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, it's us, the Jonas Brothers, and guess what?

We have some big news. What's the news, name? Huge news. We created our own podcast called, Hey Jonas. We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to it.

We're the first people to do podcasts. Pretty, yeah, pretty wide range of podcasts. We're starting a trend. But this one's extra special. So how do we actually come up with a name, Hey Jonas, Jonas, guys? I honestly don't remember. I think it was on a call about what we should,

call it. And, well, we were thinking I'm originally calling it one of the early names of our band before Jonas Brothers. This is how you guys remember it going down? Yes. I have a very different memory of this. We were talking about a thing, a bit for the podcast, where people could call in and say, Hey, Jonas.

And then I wrote down on my little notepad, Hey Jonas, and offered it up as a potential title for the podcast. But thanks for remembering that, guys. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever. you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL

late night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform?

We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The French Open is one of the toughest tests in tennis, and I know firsthand because I competed there myself. I'm Renee Stubbs, and on the Renee Stubbs Tennis podcast, I'm breaking down everything happening at Roland Garris. Every match, every upset, and what it really takes to win on clay. Genshin win.

I mean, she went down in three to Roebuckina, but I'm delighted. Yeah, she's an outsider to win the French for me. and she likes Clay. Listen, Lennar Rabakina is arguably the best player in the world right now and I actually can win on any surface because if she's serving, well, good luck. Consider this your court side seat to the French Open. Listen to the Renee Stubbs tennis podcast

on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHeart Women's Sports. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. call it grotesque, others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman

documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your

podcasts. Tomorrow is baseball night in America on Fox, and a historic rival, is at it again as Aaron Judge and the Yankees take on Raphael Devers and the Red Sox. Or the Padres Battle the Diamondbacks. Check local listings for the game in your area. Tomorrow, 7-Eastern on Fox.

Those Yankee Red Sox games last weekend, I think Fox had ratings on a three-year high. So baseball, the Renaissance, all the changes Rob Manfred has made, they are working. So if you've ever been, I don't think I've ever been in this situation, but if you're a young person, you could be eight years old at 23, and you're in survival mode. Maybe you're an abusive relationship. You have chaos in your life. It could be from parents. It could be from siblings.

You're in survival mode. There's not a lot of growth, right? Like, it's hard to grow in chaos. You're just trying to go day-to-day, meal-to-week-week, and survive. And I'll start with that because I had dinner last night with the people. president of the Bears Kevin Warren. We were talking a lot about this. He knows I've been in Los Angeles.

He knows I was close to the program. And, you know, USC's now in the Big Ten, and he now, which he used to be the president of. And we were talking a lot about Caleb Williams. And I said, first of all, I said, he was better than you give him credit for. If you go last year, remember, they fired their head coach, they fired their offensive coordinator, and their passing game coordinator became their interim head coach against Dan Campbell, Matt Lafleur, and Kevin O'Connell. Not great. And yet, he set a bear's rookie

quarterback record for passing yards and touchdowns and didn't have many turnovers. But Jaden Daniels was so good. There's a comp, people comparing, and he didn't look nearly as good. But what I said last night is, here's what I witnessed. So the first year at USC, Caleb Williams was absolutely magical. I mean, people were saying he would have been the first guy picked if he'd come out after that year. So we saw a little bit in Oklahoma, magical. First year at USC, well, the first six games of his second year at USC, he had 21 touchdowns in one pick. Six and oh, he was magical. So if you go to his first 16, 17, 18 games at USC, I mean, this kid was unbelievable. And then the last six games, it was a disaster. What happened? And that's what we talked

about. I said, USC, where Kevin Warren went in college, USC sacked him six times. They had been doing smoking mirrors on the offensive line and pass pro, pass protection. And it all unraveled against the really good coach and a really good Notre Dame defense. And it, that point forward, Lincoln Riley knew he had the number one draft pick and didn't want him to get hurt. So he went into protection mode with Caleb, shrinks the playbook, just doesn't allow him to run certain stuff. And Caleb, knowing he's going to be the number one pick, thought, I'm in survival mode. I can get hurt out here. And I agreed with him.

So the coach and the quarterback didn't trust the protection. They shrink the playbook, and he's just trying to get through the season. He then goes to Chicago, ends up with a passing game coordinator as a head coach. The staff in Chicago is in survival mode. Caleb Williams is in survival mode and there's no growth in survival mode. And so Ben Johnson's job in Chicago is extreme quarterback makeover.

The talent's all there, but they've got to renovate the house because Caleb has last six games at USC and last season, along with the bear's staff last season, it's just surviving. It's just getting play to play. And he developed some really bad head. I did not see those habits first year at USC.

I did not see those habits at the start of last year. I saw them the last six games at USC during and after the Notre Dame game, and I saw them all last year. So a lot of the criticism is ask yourself, if you ever had a bad job, verbally abused, bad situation in life or at work, and you're just trying to make sure you get to your next paycheck. Is there a lot of growth? Not really. And so to me, the first thing Ben Johnson does smartly, what does he do? He fixes the O-line because he can see on film that Caleb didn't trust his USC O-L-L-Line or a Chicago O-Line or his staff.

So Ben Johnson's all about trust and erasing some really bad habits that I didn't see in the first like 20 games at USC. And here's Ben Johnson on what he's seeing. Sometimes you get wrapped up when you're in the multiple play call game, being in a perfect play all the time for the perfect coverage, that look at the defense. And really with him, it doesn't matter so much what the play call is. If it's the perfect play versus the first, then it's great. It's there. And if it's not, then he's able to find a way to make it work.

I think he's going to play on time when the receivers present themselves that way. And if they're not there, if number one, one or number two is not there. I think he's got the ability to make it right for us. All right. I want to talk about the Lakers here. Magic John, you know, people, J. Mack, you've probably taken some liberties and made fun of Magic Johnson's Twitter account. It's not the most creative, but whatever. But he didn't say something about Luca, Donchitz yesterday on Twitter. He said, Luca, it's great what you did in Dallas, but there's a difference in Los Angeles. And we expect our superstars to lead us to championships.

LeBron already did that. Luca, that's what you have to do. And he's right. And if you look at to me, I would say, don't take Luke off this before Luca, the eight greatest Lakers of all time. You and I can go back on this. They all have kind of one thing in common. They played real defense. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar made five all-N-B-A teams with the Lakers. Did Magic Johnson? Well, first of all, they all had championships.

Kareem had five, Magic Five, Kobe, five, Shaq three, Gasol, two, Jerry West, Wilt, LeBron, Those are the eight greatest Lakers to me. The other thing is, they almost all, now Magic was not a great defensive player, but Jerry West was, Kobe was, Kareem was, LeBron was, and Shaq, I think, made all NBA defense three times. So the eight greatest Lakers pre-Luca all have titles, most multiple, and they almost all played defense. And that's the rub here with Luca.

is that because he is such, I've always said he's a much better version of Carmelo Anthony. He'll never be in great shape and never be a great defender. And people go, ah, it's ridiculous. He is so gifted offensively, though, that the media, they give him a pass on this. They see him doing a leg lift. Look, look, look at that workout regimen.

He's a pro athlete. They all do that. And I think with Luca, he's never going to be a finely tuned and sculpted Adonis. He'll never be De Wade. He'll never be LeBron James. It's not who he is. And he'll also never be Kobe Bryant as a defensive player.

He's a combination of Steph Curry and Carmelo, not his style, but the fact that he's never going to be like Carmelo. He's gifted offensively. He's never going to be finally. tuned. He's never going to be a great defensive player. It's not his mindset, because offense comes so easy. But what the Warriors did to get titles with Steph is they

acknowledged what he wasn't, not just the obvious stuff of what he was. The Warriors were totally honest about Steph. So they went and got Andre Aguadola, Draymond Green, Clay Thompson, elite

defenders, even Kevin Durant's a willing defender. Can the Lakers be honest and acknowledge he's never going to be a great defensive player. He's never going to be Kobe. He's never going to be LeBron. He's never going to be Jerry Wes as a defender. Nope, never going to be. He's never going to be D. Wade as a defender. Not ever. Just acknowledge it and build around it. That's the question for the Lakers. Because I think what happens is you don't really see because when a player's on your team, you watch him every night. And Lakers,

fans are like, man, we stole him. But there's a reason. There's a reason Dallas moved him. Now, they didn't get enough of a haul in return, but they were noticing that he wasn't in great shape, and players that aren't in great shape like Anthony Davis early in his career, what happens to them? They get hurt a lot. You ever notice LeBron and Brady never got hurt? Because they're finally tuned. And so as Lucas injuries increased, Ms. Baxter's injuries increased, Ms. Baxter, back-to-back camps wasn't even healthy when they made the trade. They were worried that like he was going to age really, really fast. And you and I know this.

You know, Big Ben didn't take care of himself like Brady. He aged much faster. Aaron Rogers, not obsessed as Brady, has aged much faster. Carmelo Anthony doesn't take care of himself like LeBron, aged much faster. So Dallas was saying he's starting to get hurt and miss camp a lot. Now, do I think he'll get in better shape? Yes, there's a microscope on him. In the Lakers, it's a bigger city and a bigger brand.

And do I think he'll be a better defensive player? Yes. But what the Warriors did, they acknowledged, okay, and the Knicks never did this with Carmelo. The Warriors acknowledged, we're going to have to surround this guy and protect the rim. We're going to have to put great defensive players around him. because not all players, you know, not all players give you both ends. Most great players do, and almost all the Lakers' greats have not only won championships. They've been elite defenders.

Shaq, Kobe, West, Kareem was unbelievable, almost all. I think Gassal was a pretty good defender. He was super long. So just something to think about. I thought the tweet by Magic Johnson, often criticized was accurate. It is different to be a Laker. It is.

If you're a quarterback, you'll be judged differently with Andy Reid. Why? Because we know Andy's great. So if you stink, nobody wants to hear about clock management of the coach that you've got to be better with Andy Reed. So J-Mack just thoughts... I mean, Laker fans are making big deals out of workout video for Luca. Workout video.

Massively overblown. But sometimes you do this thing, where you put me in a position where I'm going to say stuff that people are going to hate, even though it's reality. So you know the saying no man is an island. Nobody can do it themselves. Okay? Kobe won with Shaq, said, get him out of here, tried to do it himself, and they couldn't get out of the first round of the playoffs.

Then he gets Gasol and wins. Kevin Durant is an awesome player. Awesome player. He's not a leader. He needed to play with leaders in Golden State to win titles. So, yeah, Luca needs rim protectors. He needs defenders. Dallas went and got him lively.

Yes. And Gafford, they were awesome. They go to the finals. Yeah, Dallas and I. Nobody does it themselves. Patrick Wilhomes wins with Andy Reid. Andy Reid retires tomorrow. Let's see if Mahomes wins another Super Bowl, right? It's tough. You can't do it by yourself.

And I just don't like the Luca bashing. You know, that's my guy. Bashing. I think it's just contextualization is how I see. Hey, guys, it's us. The Jonas Brothers. I'm Joe. I'm Kevin. And I'm Nick.

And guess what? We created our own podcast called Hey Jonas. We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to it. We get to ask other people to do podcasts. We get to ask other people questions because we're sick and tired of being asked questions. Well, sick and tired is a strong way to put it, but, you know.

Tired and sick. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite. on Humor Me with Robert Smygel and Friends, me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier.

This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to Humor Me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

I'm Michelle McPhee, and I've been unraveling the strength criminal alliance I've ever reported on, a Mormon polygamist and an Armenian businessman. Multi-million dollar house, Ferraris and Lamborghinis, private jets, a billion dollar fraud. But how long can this alliance last? Tell me what you know. Is somebody coming after me? Listen to Kingdom of Fraud on the IHart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. And nobody's telling you exactly what happened.

That's where SportsSlice comes in. I'm Timbo, and every episode we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the biggest moments in sports and giving you the real story behind the headline. And we're going straight to the source, the athletes themselves, their locker room stories, their reactions in the moment, and the stuff nobody gets to hear. Listen to Sports Slice on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,

or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slices Life 12 in the TikTok podcast. network on TikTok. This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed human.