The Herd with Colin Cowherd - HOUR 1 - Jordan, Howard & Gard, LeBron

Episode Date: February 21, 2022

In this hour of The Herd with Colin Cowherd, Colin wonders why Michael Jordan is still one of the most popular former athletes in America--despite being out of the NBA for years. Also, it's clear that the adults failed to be adults when Wisconsin men's basketball coach Greg Gard met Michigan men's basketball coach Juwan Howard in the handshake line following the Badgers' dominating win over the Wolverines on Sunday. Finally, FS1 NBA analyst Ric Bucher stops in to discuss Michael Jordan's perpetual popularity and some possible NBA free agency moves--including where LeBron James may end his career. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. Another podcast from some SNL, late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter.

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From 1979, that was a big moment for me. 84 was big to me. I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick a year, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. With our friends, fellow comedians, and favorite authors. Like Mark Lamont Hill on the 80s.

84 was a wild year. It was a wild year. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, what's good, y'all? You're listening to Learn the Hardway with your favorite therapist and host, Kear Games. This space is about black men's experiences, having honest conversations that it's really not safe to have anywhere, but you're having them with a licensed professional who knows what he's doing. How many men carry a suit or armor.

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Find your local station for the Hurt at Fox Sports Radio.com or stream us live every day on the IHart Radio app by searching Hurd. Fox Sports Radio. Ah, it is a Monday. It is great. to have you in. We are live in Los Angeles. It's the herd. Wherever you may be, however you may be listening, IHeart Radio, Fox Sports Radio, FS1, President's Day. A lot of people take this week today off, a couple few days off, they go down and get in the sun, they go skiing. So if you're tuning in today,

we absolutely appreciate it. Joy Taylor back tomorrow. Alex Curry, very capably filling in. We both had good weekends. The All-Star game was yesterday. That was fun. That was so much fun. Yeah. There was a lot of people out and about yesterday, too. I totally forgot that it was a three-day weekend until I went out for a walk. I'm like, oh, wow, it is jam-packed today. It is. Oh, it's a three-day weekend. That's right.

It's like one of those. So it's weird. I don't ever talk about the Pro Bowl the day after or the baseball All-Star game the day after. But I do think the NBA All-Star game, especially when they have the 75th All-Star team there, the all-time greats is pretty cool. I think the NBA does a great job of taking the old guys and the new guys. and kind of romanticizing the past. I'm not really a romanticize the past guy, as you well know. I'm more about the windshield and the rearview mirror.

But I did notice this, and it is something, that the loudest cheer in Cleveland yesterday wasn't one of the many brilliant basketball players currently playing. It wasn't for LeBron James, who's from Akron and brought the Cavs a title. No. The greatest cheer was for a guy from Chicago who basically crushed Cavalier fans' dreams for years.

You saw the Craig Elo shot. The loudest cheer, and I think it says something, was for Michael Jordan. Here it is. A six-time NBA champion. Michael Jordan is the most popular former athlete in our country's history. Not a boxer, not a baseball player, not a football player, and that's much more popular in America. The most popular former athlete in America is Michael Jordan. And he crushed Cleveland's dreams for years.

Why is that? I mean, he was a great basketball player. There's been a lot of great football players and great baseball players. Michael wasn't always likable. We saw that in the documentary. I mean, he's a great basketball player, but he gets significantly more love than any former athlete. And I'll just throw this out there.

Maybe it's because of what Michael stood for is what we're often missing. Michael had respect for fans. Michael didn't like the chumminess that we see today in sports. Michael could be territorial and provincial like fans are. Detroit and Chicago, Lakers in Chicago, Boston and Chicago, Michael hated the Lakers and the Celtics and the Pistons just like every Bulls fan. did and they could feel it. That's nothing against LeBron and Katie and James Hardin, but they're for sale.

Their loyalty is the check. They have huge brands. They have each earned it. I have no animosity toward LeBron, Hardin, and Kevin Durant. I've been mobile in my career. Many of you have. But Michael was loyal, fiercely loyal to Chicago and an owner that underpaid him for his entire stay.

Michael Jordan was loyal to Phil. and Dean Smith and Carolina. And Michael fought through adversity, and that lands with fans. Because maybe some of us out there are mobile and have opportunities, but most Americans don't. You have a job. You don't like a boss.

It's really hard. You're not paid what you should be. And you just have to put your head down and mow through it. You just got to mow through it. I drive into work in the morning at 5.50 a.m. And there's a lot of cars on the road at 5.50. am. And in Los Angeles, those people are driving an hour a day to work. It'll be two hours home. Some of them don't have the opportunities. Every day is hard. And I'm not saying every day for Michael

Jordan was hard, but he stood for what players now often don't really appreciate. He just put his head down and mowed through it. When Gordon Gecko made the movie Wall Street, it was not made to glamorize Gordon Gecko, but it did. It was a record. recruiting tool for young kids who wanted to work on Wall Street, men and women. And when you watch Jordan's documentary, there were a lot of warts. He could be petty. He punched the teammate. Some called him a jerk.

One guy called him an a-hole. But in the end, Mike's disdain for his rivals, his pettiness, his intensity, his absolute hatred for all things, not Chicago Bulls and winning. You could feel it, and you can still feel it. There was a respect for fans and a hatred for rivals. And I know, I know we don't teach our kids that. But Michael has aged well and not all old athletes do. He's not on Instagram showing you what he had for lunch. There's no cringy social media, no burner accounts, and he is not for sale.

Michael Jordan is the greatest basketball player, all things told, to fans. LeBron can do more things well, in my opinion, and you could certainly argue for LeBron. But the fact that Michael Jordan is the most popular former athlete in the history of the country. And we know his warts, and we know he punched a teammate, and we know he did things we don't love. And there's the gambling stuff. But there's something about his DNA and his core values. America says, I want that again. And I think a lot of it is the things we probably tell our kids not to be, the pettiness,

the disdain for losing, Michael was a bad loser. But boy, was he a great winner. And it was good to see him for a day. Here's something that wasn't great to see. Yesterday, Michigan and Wisconsin, these are great Big Ten schools, great brands, wonderful athletic departments. one of the things that drives me nuts about college coaches. And maybe it's hard to avoid. They have a lot of power.

They make more than the school president. They're often the highest paid state employee. They totally control personnel. I mean, Bill Belichick's great and rich, but Robert Kraft could fire him tomorrow. Robert Kraft told him, trade Jimmy Garoppolo, and Belichick had to. NFL coaches, even the all. time great Sean Payton, Andy Reed, Mike Tomlin, Pete Carroll, Bill Belichick. They got owners. And a lot of times they have quarterbacks who make a lot more than they do. So it forces,

and it shouldn't say force, some people would do this naturally, but it forces professional coaches to treat everybody respectfully. What college coaches do is sort of nauseating. They all preach discipline. Self-control. Bobby Knight's the ultimate hypocrite, yet have none themselves. Yesterday was two grown-ups acting like fools. Greg Gard is a coach for Wisconsin. Joanne Howard, the former NBA player, a coach for Michigan. Greg Gard should never touch John Howard. I would suspend him. Joean Howard touched him back, defending himself, and then later threw a punch, which is the most severe action I saw yesterday by anybody. That's probably a four or five game suspension.

I would not fire either. I'll fire you if you touch a student if you throw a basketball, a kid, a chair like a Bobby Knight. But in this instance, Greg Gard and Joanne Howard failed as adults. I hear this all the time. Hey, you touch me. It's game on. Grow up. Politicians, coaches, people representing universities all the time have to deal with schmucks and aggressive people.

of people. You've got to be the bigger man. Greg Gard had no, no reason to grab Joanne Howard, period. He should be suspended. You're representing a great school in Wisconsin. And Joanne Howard

lost his cool later, a few seconds later, throwing a punch. He should not have. But can we get past this? Hey man, you touch me game on. That's good. You go coach junior college. Because these are big boy jobs. and you're representing something far greater than yourself.

Both coaches looked like fools, and the under-discussed part of this is as players watch the two coaches touching and jostling each other, players started getting into fights. I mean, good Lord. I've seen it from Woody Hayes. I've seen it from college coaches for years. Biggest man on campus, highest-paid state employee,

and it's what I appreciate about professional coaches. The players keep them in line. Sean McVeigh has to be respectful to Aaron Donald, or he'd throw him through a window. Yesterday was a failure of two grown men as adults, making seven figures. They should have both in that moment been angry, rip each other at the podium.

Sometimes you have to smile and walk away. I know, I know, I know. Somebody touches me, game on. Coach Junior College. This is the big 10. these are big jobs. These are big responsibilities. With great power comes some great responsibility. And I thought both coaches completely utterly failed. I don't care who's at fault. It was a series of really bad actions. The worst was swinging at somebody. But Greg Gard has no right to put his hands on anybody. None at all. That's a general rule in society. You don't walk up to a store clerk. You don't walk up to an Uber driver. You don't walk up to another person and put your hands on them and invade their space. stop defending him. That's accountability matters for Greg Gard, too. Here's Joanne after.

I didn't like the timeout being called, and I'd be totally honest with you. I thought it was not necessary at that moment, especially being in a large league. I thought that that was, you know, what I felt wasn't fair to our guys. And so that's what happened. For someone to touch me, and I think that was very uncaused for him to touch me, as we were verbalizing and communicating one another. So that's what ended up happening. And that's what escalated it.

Please, college coaches, stop the hypocrisy. Stop preaching discipline and self-control when often you get in crisis and have none. Very, very interesting comments from somebody who has been as close to the Packers as any single reporter for the last. 30 years. With March Madness right around the corner, that means spring is almost here. It means it's lawn mowing season.

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HustlerTurf.com. to mower, it's a mentality. Be sure to catch live editions of the herd weekdays in noon Eastern, 9 a.m. Pacific on Fox Sports Radio, FS1, and the IHeart Radio app. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential.

Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win.

I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show.

This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So if you've ever supported me

or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tap Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs?

Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do with Little Kim? Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick it here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it.

Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill, waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 is big to me, not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack on day, but just so y'all know. I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack. So I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now. Thank you for finishing that sentence.

I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really? Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hard Way with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kear Games. And in recognition of mental health awareness month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests.

I'm talking. Trip Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing. And we're still chasing it. And we don't know when we've done enough. Because people

scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross, because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth? Are you a good person because you're afraid? Because that's two different intentions, bro. Absolutely.

And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person. Join me, Keer Gaines, is we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, learn the hard way. Open your free, I Heart Radio app. Search Learn the Hardway and listen now. I didn't know this. I just saw this. LeBron's teams are 5 and O in All-Star Games.

Yep. He talked about that last night. Oh, that's good. Yeah. Good for him. You know, it's nice to win the game. Yeah. It's nice to win All-Star Games.

I thought this was interesting. So when you work for a local newspaper, especially in a small town like Green Bay, Wisconsin, it's harder to drop the hammer on a star quarterback or a GM because you need certain access. That's the reality. I've worked in smaller markets. There are people, if you work in El Paso, Texas, you need access to the football coach, to the youth. It's harder to drop the hammer. And Bob McGinn has been a great reporter forever on the past.

But now he works for like Peter King and Rob Demovsky works for ESPN. They both work for the, what's the newspaper there? The Press Gazette, Green Bay Press Gazette. And that is not saying they were hiding stuff, but it's just, this is a reality of being in local media. You know, you've got to go hang out with the coaches. You're at the press conference with the local advertisers in the grocery store. It's harder to drop the hammer.

For somebody like me, somebody at the athletic, somebody at Fox, ESPN, it's much easier to get the access, by the way. people often use you as a conduit to information. I've had players from teams call me, set me straight, text me. This guy's a bad guy. This guy's a good guy. And it's an advantage. But Bob McGinn, for years and years I've been saying this,

for about I think 10 years ago, I said, I don't like Aaron Rogers' body language. I think he's aloof. I think he's got some leadership stuff I don't like. And for years and years, I got a lot of heat on it. I'm a big boy. I can handle it. And then people started saying like Bob McGinn when he left, and he's a great reporter,

yeah, some of this Aaron Rogers stuff is on him. Well, another thing I've been banging on for the last several years is Aaron's very hyper sensitive to criticism and very hyper aware of his passer rating. This is something I have noticed over and over again. And why do I think that? Because again, Aaron's aware how he's viewed. He came out and said he hated the criticism he got for the vaccination stuff or anti-vax stuff. So Breeze Brady and Peyton Manning

own the NFL record book for quarterbacks. They own virtually everything. Aaron's not going to get that. Brady's the guy with titles in Montana. Aaron's not going to get that. Peyton Manning's more successful commercially. Aaron's not going to get that. Amongst his contemporaries, what does he get?

Passer rating. He's number one for years. Now he's number two to Mahomes. But it's the thing he's got over Breeze and Brady and Peyton. passer rating. And he plays to it. He's hyper aware to it. And I've said this for years. He goes into football games. If he throws an interception, he often changes the way he plays. If he throws a second, he shuts it down. He did that in Tampa about two years ago. So years from now, if he has that great passer rating and only one title, he can say maybe privately, hey, we never had great defenses.

I did my job. We couldn't land top-free agents. Here's a quote from Bob McGinn. Very interesting. Football Morning in America. Aaron Rogers for years has played a careful calculating game, understanding that number of interceptions plays a disproportionate nonsensical role in the passer rating formula. And when a quarterback, especially one with a powerful, usually accurate arm like Rogers, deliberately minimizes chances to deliver a big play for fear of an interception that's hurting his team. That's exactly what happened against San Francisco. And I called it out.

In the last week, both McGinn and Rob Domofsky, great reporters have dropped a little bit of a velvet hammer on Aaron because both have great access, but not they're not going to be prone to the criticism or the stairs of living in the town and being there every day. And so I'm glad somebody else is now acknowledging this. It doesn't mean Aaron's not Hall of Fame. It doesn't mean he's spectacular. But you're not going to be the best quarterback in the NFL if you're working. worried about interceptions. Josh Allen doesn't. Brady doesn't. Matt Stafford doesn't. They don't care. Andrew Luck didn't. I don't think Russell Wilson lives and dies by it either. Peyton Manning didn't. Eli Manning didn't. Joe Montana didn't. Joe Namath didn't. John Elway

didn't. Aikman didn't. It was about winning, throwing the ball down the field. I am just glad somebody else now is acknowledging what feels to me so obvious. when people say he's the best. No, the best is about subjugating your ego at times to just make a play. It doesn't matter if you've got two pick sixes. It doesn't matter. Matt Stafford had some awful first halves. Matt Stafford in the fourth quarter didn't care. He wasn't protecting his legacy. He wanted to win games. That to me is always discounted when talking about greatness. Winning, period, is what you're trying. to attain. Alex for the news. No, no, no, no, no.

Turn on the news. This is the herd line news. Oh, Colin, you hit the nail on the head there with team reporters as a team reporter for 10 years. There are certain things you just, you have to walk a fine line because you're with them every day. You're not necessarily a team partner, but you are kind of a team

partner. A friend of mine covered the San Francisco Giants for years and he said, listen, it's a long season. It is. You bury a player early. They're not going to want to talk to you. They'll ignore you with the batting, for five months. Oh, yeah. And by the way, it doesn't mean you're not a great reporter.

No. But you appease far more bees with honey than vinegar. And I learned that from my journalism professor. When you cover a local team. You got to play the game. Always. Got to play the game. All right.

Well, Bruce Ariens doesn't believe Tom Brady will come out of retirement. And last week, there was a report by Rich Orrinberger that the main reason Brady was because the relationship had soured between him and Ariens. But Ariens is certain his relationship with Brady is not why he's. left the game after only two seasons in Tampa Bay. He said, I mean that's such bleep. That's what pisses me off. I guess probably Byron could cooperate this too. It seems like there's one story every day now. Everybody is speculating he's going somewhere else. That don't bother me. This other bleep, the relationship thing, that is so far-fetched. Now this is tough because I'm sure

there were some issues. You're not going to hear reports like this if there wasn't. But we're not really going to know unless it comes directly from Tom Brady. Listen, I, you can get along with somebody and they can irritate you. I always felt that Belichick and Brady had far more similarities than differences. I don't think you last 20 years with somebody if you have, I mean, when people are married for 25 years and then they break up and all they do is badmouthed

the other person, I'm like, we were with them for 25 years. You created wonderful kids. there's got to be some similarities. Yeah. I think Ariens and Brady are literally opposites. And people always say opposites attract. They may, but they don't stay together. No.

You have to have similarities. And I think Ariens is a little bit looser in his language. Oh, yeah. And I think, and I do think Bruce and Brady were destined to be a short, successful relationship with a little bit of turbulence. Yep. Where I think Belichick and Brady were destined to be a long 20-year marriage and eventually wore each other out.

Yeah. I mean, it worked with Brady. and Ariens. They won a Super Bowl. You don't have to see eye to eye on everything, but there is mad respect for someone when you win a championship. Well, the Steelers announced that they have hired a former Miami Dolphins coach, Brian Flores, as their senior defensive assistant linebackers coach. Now, Flores hires comes just over a month after he was fired by Miami after three seasons. Flores interviewed with the Giants, Texans, and Saints for their head coaching positions. Now, this also is after Flores filed a lawsuit against three teams in the NFL for their

practices and alleged he was paid to tank by dolphins owner Stephen Ross. This will be the best defensive staff in the NFL. I'll just start with that because he's, first of all, he's overqualified for this. Oh, yeah. Be that as it may, he is an unbelievable defensive coach. If you go back and look at Miami, what he did to that defense, now he, Van Newe, they had one free agent signing I didn't like, but he upgraded corners, he upgraded pass rush, he upgraded schemes, he upgraded the special teams.

So to me, that I could have Brian Flores as an assistant on my defensive staff, he is as good as any, he'll be the best defensive assistant, coordinator or assistant in the league. He is fantastic. And he will get another job. I'm absolutely sure of it. He deserves to be a head coach. Pittsburgh hit the jackpot here. And just in background, Pittsburgh ranked in the top 10 in yards and points allowed in recent

years but fell to 24th and 20th in 20th in 2021. So this is going to be big for them. And also, Mika Fitzpatrick, he's joined with again. T.J. Watt. It's not like he inherits a rebuild. This is a really good defense that needs better coaching, and he'll deliver it. Yeah. They're going to be good. All right. Well, C.J. McCollum was recently traded to the Trailblazers from the Trailblazers to the Pelicans. And he was asked about his relationship so far with his new teammate, Zion Williamson. Take a listen.

He's a big part of our future. Obviously, you know, we're looking forward to getting him back. I haven't had conversations with him directly. I've spoken to some people close to him and look forward to sitting down with him sooner than later. But I don't really... I know about as much as you do right now, but I'm going to get to the bottom.

I don't like that at all. That's horrible. That is such a bad look. It takes less than a minute for a phone call. Even a text saying, welcome, you are a leader and face on this team, and you can't really. reach out to a new veteran teamate?

It's gotten really weird in New Orleans. It's, it's, and I'm a huge Zion fan, but it's just unprofessional. It just sounds like he's just biding his time. That's what it feels like to me. He is biting his time. He doesn't want to risk getting hurt again. Yeah. It's a bummer.

That's bad. That's bad form. Yeah. Alex for the news. Well, that's the news. And thanks for stopping by. The herd lie news. So I thought it was pretty interesting.

You know, the All-Star game, Make about what you I like to see Steph Curry succeed. LeBron hit the shot, the game winner. LeBron's 5 and O in All-Story games. It's fun. I love the MJ stuff so much. And I do think the NBA does a really good job to bring back the old guys and the young guys pay respect to them.

But it's been interesting this last six or seven days. At the trading deadline last week, as we told you, the Lakers would not make a move. And clutch sports that represents LeBron and LeBron James, they wanted Westbrook gone. but it was LeBron in his camp that wanted Westbrook to the Lakers, and the Lakers front office and ownership didn't. They wanted Buddy healed.

They didn't want to move all the young players. And so in the end, what the Lakers, Jeannie Bus and Rob Polinka basically said by not making a move at the trade deadline was, you created this mess. This is your idea. We're not making a move to appeal to you. And that's very rare in LeBron's career, like it's never happened. When the Miami Heat, Pat Riley, pushed back a little on LeBron, he left town.

And this is sort of what LeBron does. But the difference is LeBron now is in, you know, year 19. But I thought it was very interesting. So obviously the Lakers, both the Lakers and LeBron and his camp kind of go into protective mode. They put stuff out publicly. There was a story this weekend that Clutch Sports isn't happy with LeBron with the Lakers, Raupilinka. LeBron's talking about other GMs. LeBron said this too.

Doors not closed on returning to the Cavaliers. My last year will be played with my son. And it's really interesting. So Cleveland now has a title. Cleveland, for years and years, was desperate for LeBron. They're actually, if you look at the Cavs and their young players, there's an argument to be made. They are going to be one of the top five or six teams in this league for the next six or seven years.

Darius Garland, a guard, is averaging 20. a game. He replaced Colin Sexton. He's hurt who was averaging 24. They just got Levert from the Pacers, a very good young player. They've got Evan Mobley who's going to win a rookie of the year. Jared Allen who came over. He's locked up until the 20, 24, 2025 season. He's an excellent big. Cleveland's got an unbelievable ascending young foundation, excellent young players. And they added the player from the Pacers, who's only like 26, 27 years old. Carol. Carus Lavert. So I think there's zero chance.

If I ran Cleveland, I'm not trading for LeBron in the next two years. I'm not blowing this up. This is a really, and, and the downside to mobility is LeBron twice has bailed on Cleveland for glamorous Miami and glamorous Los Angeles. How many times do you want to get burned, Ohio? When LeBron says, I'm not shutting the door to Cleveland, who says it's open? I wouldn't move any of these players. Absolutely not.

Listen, it's the duality of LeBron. With LeBron, you get his greatness and his IQ. He makes everybody better. But he's in his 19th year. You don't get full seasons. He is still remarkable, but the temperature in the room changes when LeBron's in your franchise. And I want to see this young Cleveland group grow.

They have really, really, they got a young big. They've got young wings. They've got a couple young guards. they're going to do really well. Are they the next Milwaukee? There's an argument to be made in the next three or four years. They're going to become the next Milwaukee box. So I don't think any other team in the East has this much young talent as Cleveland does.

And they've butchered a lot of draft picks for years, but they've now hit on some. The Jared Allen move. You know what? They've done some really good stuff. And let's be honest here. Even when LeBron was in Cleveland and winning a title, Dan Gilbert, and this happens a lot in pro sports, felt like, you know, he lost his team. LeBron was essentially running the organization.

I can't believe that Dan Gilbert in the next two years would say, I'm going to give away some of this hard work. We got our team back. This Cleveland fan base loves this young cavalier team, and they should. That's what's great about the NBA. You saw it with the Warriors before they won a title. When you've got all these young ascending players, the contracts are reasonable, you make a trade or two, and you look up and you're like,

we're going to make the playoffs. We're going to be in a playoff series. and that's with Sexton Hurt, who averaged 24 a game last year. So it's just funny when LeBron said, you know, the, you know, don't close the window on Cleveland. Who said it's open? I mean, I'm serious. Don't get me wrong, the previous 15 years, they would have taken LeBron for anything, you know, they would have given up everything. Cleveland's not desperate anymore. They've been burned twice. They've got a title. They've got an owner who has his franchise back. Like I, I'm just saying if I ran it,

I'm not giving up this young franchise. You know, owners want to own their teams. They want to have control. And I've heard this for years and years from NFL circles is the downside to having, you know, a Peyton Manning or a Tom Brady or an Aaron Rogers or eventually maybe a Patrick Mahomes. You can feel at times Drew Breeze, Big Ben, you know, like you kind of lose control of your team. The quarterback is making $45 million or $40 million.

He controls the media. You have to make all your moves releasing an action. people based on one player on your franchise. So I don't think the Cleveland door, I don't know, doesn't look open to me. And at this point, hey, listen, if I was the Lakers and you get LeBron and I get all your young players, I think they do it tomorrow. And that's not a knock on LeBron, but it's year 19. And people who own NBA, NFL baseball franchises, sometimes you give away your franchise

to a superstar quarterback or basketball player because you're getting titles out of it because you're getting so much relevance out of it. But I mean, are the Lakers even that relevant in the West? Their brand right now is way better than their basketball. Rick Buker around the corner. Colin Wright, Colin Wrong, top of next hour on a President's Day Monday. Be sure to catch live editions of the herd weekdays at noon Eastern 9 a.m. Pacific. I'm George Reister, host of the Reister or Rister. Wrong podcast. This is the intersection where sports, business, society, and pop culture meet the truth.

Absolute fire on Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays. Facts only. Make sure you check your feelings at the door because no BS is allowed. We keep it 100. This is where real conversations happen. Listen to the Rights or Wrong podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games.

Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football,

or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite

athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrate. One week I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast, it's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So, if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where

you need to be. Listen to the Clifford Show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford. and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tap Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking.

What the hell does George Bush got to do with Little Kim? Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick a here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill, waxing all about crack in the 80s.

To be clear, 84 is big to me, not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack on day, but just so you all know. I mean, at this point, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack. So I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now. Thank you for finishing that sentence. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really?

Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hard Way with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Keer Games. And in recognition of Mental Health Awareness Month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests.

I'm talking, Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing. and we're still chasing it and we don't know when we've done enough because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross,

because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth, or are you a good person because you're afraid? Because that's two different intentions, bro. Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person. Join me, Kear Gaines,

as we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast. Learn the hard way. Open your free iHeartRadio app. Search Learn the hard way and listen now. Wolf and Shepherd, my favorite shoes. Go to wolf and shepherd.com.

Amazingly comfortable shoes. Feel like sneakers, but their dress shoes. Good to have you on the Monday, President's Day. Colin Wright, Colin Wrong, top of next hour. So, you know, it's interesting. I was talking, and this was not a shot at LeBron. But LeBron's in year 19. You don't get a full schedule.

I'm not trading LeBron to Cleveland, so I could give Cleveland could give up Darius Garvey. and Colin Sexton and Jared Allen, all these pieces. There's no way I'd do that. Absolutely no way. Cleveland's got a great future. The next five or six years for the Cavs are going to be so fun if you live in that city. You got a title with LeBron.

That's great. Let's get a title with the new guys. That's fun too. And this is not a knock on LeBron. If I was the Chargers, I would not trade. I would not get rid of Justin Herbert for two years of Tom Brady. I'm just not going to do that. So Tom Brady changes the temperature in the room.

So, you know, this is not a shot at any individual player. you can be great and I know you'd be better for my team briefly. But part of the fun of sports is a community building together. And I think fans really love that process. That's why I think college fans struggle with a transfer portal. There's so much mobility. Fans like rooting for guys over and over and over. And so mobility is good for me and it's good for maybe the individual player.

Mobility is not always great for sports and brands. It's not. Rick Buecker covering the league since the early 90s, Fox Sports NBA analyst. I said this earlier. Michael Jordan's the most popular ex-athlete in America for a lot of reasons. He was good looking. He was glamorous.

He won. But I do think he does things that we sort of miss. He was parochial. He was petty. It was all about winning. He was loyal. He'd put his head down through adversity. He hated the pistons.

like Chicago fans hated the Pistons. Like that he was so petty and fans can be petty. And that's my takeaway on Michael is that he, a lot of what he symbolized is what we kind of miss a little bit about the NBA. Am I wrong on that or does it land for you like that? No, I think there are a lot of fans that certainly see him in a golden light of what once was and how guys operated. I also believe that Jordan has done a great.

job of positioning himself. And look, he's still an owner of the NBA. He could have as much exposure as he wants, and yet he has kept a relatively low profile. What we have seen of him, we saw through the last dance. So he's been able to package exactly how much we've seen. And I think it's the case with any number of players in that the more you put yourself out there, I could say the same for Charles Barkley. The more you put yourself out there, the more you give fan's material to pick at and find fault with. And Jordan simply hasn't done that. So he left in a golden light. He may be in a more golden light now than he was when he left the league. Because we completely forget about the Washington Wizards, right? We've gone straight. We just go

straight back to the Bulls. Right. Thanks in part to the last dance. But thanks in part because Jordan has maintained that low profile and has created that brand. And he's allowed it to speak. for itself. But I do believe you're right. Like Cleveland fans have every reason not to like, not to like Michael Jordan. Yeah. They're like, but we like what you represent. Yeah.

So clutch sports, whenever people don't get what they want, big rich people or public figures, they go to the press. And so now, you know, the clutch sports people wanted to trade at the deadline. They didn't get it. And now, story comes out. They're not happy with Rob Polinka. The second there, I thought you were

talking about yourself, Kyle. And I'm sure the Lakers, by the way, are feeding their media people. They want stuff out. So your takeaway on the fact that LeBron and his people are not happy with the Lakers' front office. What's your take? Not surprised, but this is part and parcel that comes with working with clutch agency. And GMs will not say it publicly. They're even a little scared to say it privately.

But this is one of the reasons why they are reluctant. They know the talent that the clutch agency has, but they know the price that comes with it, which is they're a little bit like the black Spider-Man soup. They just want to get in on everything and they want to control everything. And so this is not a surprise. And everybody knows that if you're going to work with LeBron and you're going to work with his people, if things go sideways, it's going to fall on you. Even if you are doing what they are asking. you to do. So this comes as no surprise, and I would say it ties in with the idea of who's going to go after LeBron when he's looking to move on and play with Brony two and a half years from now.

Is the price that you're going to have to pay to deal with clutch, and let's make no mistake, LeBron is a high-maintenance player. He's always been worth it, but there's no question. There's a high price tag that comes with that and not just in salary. Our team's going to be willing to do that. Yeah. So I will tell you, like I can't tell you how many GMs I've talked to about various players that they were interested in, Ben Simmons, for example. And it was, I got to be careful how I do this because I'm going to have to deal with clutch, either with this player or they may have one of my own players, and that can be a difficult relationship. There's people that will say, hey, that's what your agent is supposed to be. He's supposed to be difficult. He's supposed to be demanding. But there's a way to find that middle ground. where people aren't reluctant to work with you because of the demands that you make. You know, it's interesting. I heard this quote, LeBron said, I'm not, don't close the door on Cleveland. And my takeaway is, well, Cleveland's got all these young players.

They're all ascending. They're fun. They can score. I'm not saying the door. Why is the door open to Cleveland? Dan Gilbert's got no interest to let LeBron have the franchise. When LeBron said that, my takeaway was, that's a little delusional. If I was Cleveland, I got Levert now and Jared Allen now and Garland now.

and Garland now and Sexton's hurt, but back, I'm thinking, Mobley, by the way, is going to win rookie of the year. I'm thinking, there's no way. They're not going to, I mean, that to me sounded like LeBron was tone deaf. Like he thinks Cleveland will take him back. I do not at all.

Do you? It's, I think he meant it as a compliment. I think he meant it like, hey, we could get together again. And I don't know, it's like the, it's like the girlfriend you jilted twice. Hey, you know what? I think we should get back together.

She might not be so excited about that, especially when I think about how LeBron left that franchise the last two times. Yes, he brought a championship, and that means the world to the people in Cleveland and to the Cavaliers. But he didn't leave them in very good shape. That's right. And now you're talking about getting a 40-year-old LeBron who's going to be there for how long. And again, he's saying he'd go for any amount of money, but it's a matter of the imprint that he makes. It's the footprint, as you say, takes up a lot of oxygen in the room. And I dare, this is the flip side of it, though, two and a half years from now,

I'm not sure that it makes sense for any team more than it makes sense for Cleveland. Because what are you getting? I don't care if you're the Washington Wizards or the Sacramento Kings or the Charlotte Hornets. Renting LeBron James for one year, what does it really get you? How much does it really change your franchise? How much would you move in order to make that happen? At least with Cleveland, you have the hearkening of the good old days, the good times, the sun coming, you know, the prodigal sun coming home once again. Right.

I can at least see a narrative that I could sell if I'm the Cleveland Cavaliers and make my fans feel good about it. I don't know that the Charlotte Hornet fans are going to be that thrilled to get a 40-year-old LeBron. especially if it means that you're also drafting Brony. Finally, Zion Williamson, this thing's gotten weird and ugly, and C.J. McCullough says, yeah, I'm a new player here, and nobody's called me, including Zion. We've got about a minute here. That seems like he is just completely Zion's disengaged from the franchise.

That's my read on it. Is that true? That's what I've been hearing for the last couple of months. He is rehabbing up in Portland. He hasn't been communicating with the team on a regular basis. They haven't really known exactly what's going on. I mean, even the injury over the summer, like, that came as a surprise to New Orleans. They don't have regular exchanges.

And a lot of people are interpreting that and speculating that that is an indication that Zion doesn't want to be there. And I have heard that there are people around Zion who believe he's too big of a star for New Orleans. that he needs to go someplace else. What's going to be very interesting is New Orleans wants to, in spite of all that, they absolutely have to re-sign him. He's a number one pick. I've been told that what they'll do is because of the injuries, they'll try to load it up much like Joellen B.'s contract with Philadelphia.

It's going to be like a 35-page contract that covers all of the injury possibilities. To do that, though, you need to have a relationship to negotiate. something like that. And that's where it's going to get very, very interesting. All right. Rick Buecker covering the league for a long time podcast on the ball with Rick Buecker, as always. I just love CNNJ, get the big cheer. I don't know why that just tickled me. Yeah. Buk's great seeing you again, my man. Same Colin. Yeah, Colin Wright, Colin Wrong, top of next hour. You know, it's these days, if you're ever critical of an athlete, you're a hater. And there's, you know, I think the Michael LeBron debate's fascinating.

I think LeBron does more things well. If you take centers out, just take centers out. The best basketball players I've ever seen are Michael, LeBron, and Magic Johnson. Now, Kevin Durant can score with anybody, but those guys, Michael was a great defensive player and the best closer. LeBron's like the Swiss Army nice. He does everything well. Magic could give you 42 points or 22 assists.

Magic was not a great shooter, but he scored a lot of points, could have scored more. Magic did whatever it took to win the game. Like whatever it took magic. Those are the three best basketball players of my life. Centers, you know, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar had the most unstoppable shot, also played forever and was great forever. But there is something to be said about there is a, it's palpable, you can feel it. There's a respect for Michael and a reverence that I don't think any other American

former athlete has ever had. It's almost like Pele in Brazil. It's just held to a different standard. Hour two on a Monday next. Another podcast from some SNL late-night comedy guy, not quite on Humor Me with Robert Smygel and Friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier.

This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get, your podcasts.

Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth.

Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. On the Look Back at it podcast For 1979, that was a big moment for me 84 was big to me I'm Sam Jay And I'm Alex English Each episode, we pick a year

unpack what went down And try to make sense of how we survived it With our friends, fellow comedians, and favorite authors Like Mark Lamont Hill on the 80s 84 was a wild year I don't think there's a more important year For black people

Listen to look back at it On the IHeart Radio app Apple Podcasts or wherever you give Get your podcasts. Hey, what's good, y'all? You're listening to Learn the Hardway with your favorite therapist and host, Kear Games.

This space is about black men's experiences, having honest conversations that it's really not safe to have anywhere, but you're having them with a licensed professional who knows what he's doing. How many men carry a suit or armor? It signals to the world that you're not to be played with.

And just because you have the capability that does not mean that you need to. Listen to learn the hard way on the AHA radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.