The Herd with Colin Cowherd - HOUR 1 - Judge, coaching trees, upsets

Episode Date: January 12, 2022

Joe Judge was in over his head as HC of the GiantsNFL coaching treesThere will be at least one NFL upset this weekendGuest: Nick Wright Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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We are live in Los Angeles. It's the herd. Wherever you may be and however you may be listening, IHeart Radio, Fox Sports Radio, and FS1. Coaches fired, seven new openings. Here we are again. The league average is seven and eight. Joy and I said a month ago it was only two or three. And what do you know?

Seven coaches been fired. maybe eight. There's a lot of rumblings out there. It could be eight, but it's at least seven. The league average is seven and a half over the last about decade. We talked about this month ago. It's about seven and a half. We're right smack dab where we are every year at this time.

And Joy Taylor is joining me. Nick Wright later this hour, Joy, how are you? I'm great. It's part of the business. It's an unfortunate part of the business, but this is how the cycle goes. Yeah. So I have pretty, I lived out east. for 10 years.

And so I was talking to a couple of different over the last 48 hours, a couple of different sources around the New York Giants. Here's the best way to put it. When Joe Judge got hired, we were shocked. Remember? We were like, who's Joe Judge? He was over his head. Doesn't mean he's a bad guy. Doesn't mean he can't coach.

To be the coach of the New York football Giants is a lot. The fan base is demanding. The press is tough. New York. winners. And this also is a franchise with a history of winning. This isn't the brown to the lions that go through coaches every three or four years. The giants are successful. They've, even when they're great, they're never exciting. They're the accounting firm of the NFL. But they, this is a good franchise. When I lived out there, they were going to Super Bowls.

They got Eli and Kaufflin. So this isn't your typical franchise in terms of merry go-round of coaches. But that's what they've become over the last six years, three coaches, three big whiffs. So here's, and from what my people say is, it's as simple as this. It was just mayhem with the Giants. It was hard. The building was hard. Gettlement wasn't right. Joe Judge was over his skis.

It was just too hard. Football can't be that hard. I say this all the time in marriages. You've got to be able to sit in the couch and enjoy each other's company. I was told it was just hard all the time. Not to mention, it is the worst offensive line, probably by a mile in the league. Please solve that first. I don't care about an edge rusher.

I don't care about another corner. Fix the offensive line. You can't be an elite team with the worst offensive line in the National Football League. But let's try to solve this. We can talk about the past all we want. It's very common for a successful business and the New York Giants have been successful, multiple Super Bowls, to when they struggle, reach into their past success to solve it. Joe Judge knew Belichick.

Belichick was under Parcells as a Giants coach. So what they did is very predictable. It doesn't mean they're dumb. It doesn't mean they're poorly run. They were struggling with McAdoo and Shermer. How do we solve it? Let's reach into our past Belichick and grab one of his top assistants. Happens all the time.

People do this all the time in college of pro football. But here's the key for the New York Giants for me. Because the Giants are, I believe, deep down, overwhelmingly a great historic franchise. But this is going to be tough for them. No more talking about yesterday. I don't care about Joe Judge, I don't care about Edelman, Gettelman, I don't care. 100% fans, media go forward. So let's look at what is currently happening in the National Football League.

Because when you're a proud franchise and you've had success, it is very hard to not reach back into the success well for solutions. That's why it's hard for the Giants. They've had so much previous success. You have to go 100% forward because the game is changing and here's an example. example. Let's name the great or good recent coaching hires. Is there a trend? So these are what I would call the great hires in the last several years. Sean McDermott, Sean McVeigh, Kyle Shanahan, Matt LaFleurr, Mike Vrable, and Bruce Ariens. The good hires, Zach Taylor, Kevin Stefansky, Cliff Kingsbury, Mike McCarthy, and Frank Reich. What is the common thread? Nine of a

11 are offense. And in fact, the two defensive coaches, Sean McDermott and Mike Vrable, what do they have in common? They have aced offensive coordinator hires. Aced them. There's your trend. The quarterback is so valuable in this league now. The rules are so offensive. Giants do not worry about previous coaches and previous success.

Move forward. Go get an offensive coach. It's the only way you can save Daniel Jones. It is the only way. Why? Because offensive coaches have closer relationships with quarterbacks. They understand the value of the offensive line, which Joe Judge never did. They developed them.

Matt LaFleur, they get along with them. They can appeal to them and their sensibilities. So we have a trend. Go offense. Nine of the last 11, great or good hires are offense. In fact, even defensive. coaches that we like. Vic Fangio, Mike Tomlin, Pete Carroll,

Ron Rivera, what part of their team is a little bit of a mess? The offense. Through the years, I've known a ton of coaches. Talk to one yesterday. And defensive guys, head coaches, see the world differently. They just do.

Pete Carroll wants to run the football. that's what he wants to do. Mike Tomlin likes defense and power football. It's just what he likes. It's not a criticism. It's just their sensibility. It's their football DNA. So we have a clear pattern.

Joe Judge, gone. Don't want to hear about him again. Dave Gettleman gone. It's over. I don't want to hear about Eli. I don't want to hear about anything. The trend is clear. Go offense.

Maybe you can elevate Daniel Jones for a year. I'm not saying it's the long-term solution, but either Daniel Jones or going and getting a Russell Wilson get somebody who gets him. That is an offensive coach. By the way, this is interesting too. And I don't know, I don't have an answer for this, but this is sort of fascinating.

Have you ever noticed, we always talk about hiring coaches from coaching trees. Okay, Belichick, best coach ever, defensive coach. His coaching tree stinks. just failure, failure, failure. Mike Tomlin's coaching tree, Pete Carroll's coaching tree. But yet, Bill Walsh's coaching tree, Mike Holmgren's coaching tree, Andy Reid's coaching tree, Sean McVeigh's current coaching tree, and Mike Shanahan's coaching tree.

For whatever reason, offensive coaching legends, coaching trees, especially today, seem to be working better than defensive coaching trees. It's not absolute, but there's a clear trend going forward, and it's a great year of candidates. The giant's primary issue is they've had so much success, they've been so historically relevant that you've got to be careful about looking in the rearview mirror to solve tomorrow. And the trend is clear, go offense, it's the only way to save Daniel Jones or elevate him at minimum, and it will also pay dividends if you land a guy like Russell Wilson. Okay, so I think this is funny.

So every year we make predictions for the NFL. And, you know, we're hitting miss. Last year we got very lucky. We were seven for seven on the AFC this year. The AFC at Bengals and Raiders. It was like we were all over the map. But every year, I make predictions. And if I don't predict the exact same teams who made it the previous year, I get nothing but pushback.

yet as of this morning there were seven new teams that made the playoffs right on the last 20 year league average bingles patriots raiders dallas 49ers arizona philly new playoff teams every year seven to eight new playoff teams every year oh by the way what is the league average for new coaches seven and a half and we currently have seven and potentially eight new coaching openings. So when your local sportscaster or your national sportscaster, you know like us, suggest that next year's playoffs will not look like this year's playoffs. We're going to be right. So let me just give you a heads up for next year.

Pittsburgh probably next year, unless they land Aaron Rogers or Russell Wilson, will not make the playoffs next year. They have no succession plan on a quarterback, and the other three teams in the division have a quarterback. I'm going to make a prediction for next year. The Raiders won't go 6-0 in overtime games and final play of the game regulation wins. They won't go 6 and 0 in those, and that division's really good, and the Raiders probably won't. make it in. I'm also going to make another prediction. Ravens probably don't have like 50 guys hit the IR. And the Ravens, an incredibly well-run organization with a very dynamic quarterback, probably are pretty good. I also think the Colts and the Chargers will probably figure out a way

next year to get in. But it is interesting. What makes the NFL great is that the team that you root for, regardless of where you live in America, there's an argument to be made. If you're terrible this year, you've absolutely got a shot next year. Outside of Cincinnati, did anybody really think the Bengals would win this division? Didn't we all think even Philadelphia media

that we brought on this show, thought the Eagles were an absolute wreck? Seattle? Last place? Hope? is a powerful drug and no sport has it. New coach, new playoff teams annually, like the National Football League. All right. You know, my favorite part, people tend to call it in the NFL overreaction Monday.

So this weekend we get a bunch of playoff games. Then there's a Monday game. What's interesting is we know there's going to be an upset. We know these games are going to be close because we went back yesterday. and looked at 2017, 18, 19, 20. Outside of the Saints kind of dominating the Bears last year, you get overtime games in the first, the wild card round, you get super close games.

So you know you're going to have them. But who are we really going to crush on Monday or Tuesday as a favorite if they lose? Because I think there's two favorites that if they lose, we'll give them a pass Monday. And I think I would be okay with it. Who are we going to rip the harshest next Monday if they lose? And who are we going to defend as a favorite if they lose?

That's coming up. Be sure to catch live editions of the herd weekdays in noon Eastern, 9 a.m. Pacific on Fox Sports Radio, FS1, and the IHeart Radio app. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year.

Within probably 10 days, I put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. Yep, that's me. Clever Taylor the 4th.

You might have seen the skisks. hits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music.

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Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam Jett. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick it here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill, waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 is big to me, not just because of crack.

I'm down to talk about crack on day, but just so you're just so you're not. I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed correct. So I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now. They're finishing that sentence. Yes. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really?

Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hardway with me, your host, and your favorite. favorite therapist, Kear Games. And in recognition of Mental Health Awareness Month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations

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Open your free iHeartRadio app. Search Learn the Hardway and listen now. All right, so we have all the playoff games this weekend. There's going to be an upset somewhere. Somebody's going to get knocked off. If you make a prediction for it, though, people crush you. But we know we're going to have an upset because we have them all the time in the wild card round. My prediction is the games will be closer than we think.

So what is going to happen on shows like this that have strong opinions? We're not basically Sports Center here. We're an opinion show. That's what we do. We have theories and beliefs. We project. We predict. We're an opinion show that occasionally has some sort of.

That's what we do here. So on a Monday, we got six favorites. We got the Bengals are favorites, the Bills are favorites, the Bucs are favorites, the Cowboys are favorites, the Chiefs are favorites, and the Rams are favorites. So let's look at who we're going to crush because not all favorites are the same. So here's the two teams I think we'll give a little pass to. The Bengals lose. most of their stars are young.

They're way better at this point than we thought they would be in their rebuild. Zach Taylor, we know he can coach, right? Joe Burrell's been spectacular. If the Bengals lost to a crazy, nutty, unexplainable Raider team that keeps winning road games in the last play, I think we'd go, well, they overachieve. None of us thought they'd win their division anyway. It's a great year for them.

It's a step in the process. I also don't think we would absolutely, clobber, Brady and the Bucks for losing, even as a big favorite. Why? They're riddled with injuries. They won it last year. We don't question Brady's ability to win playoff games. We don't question Bruce Arien's ability to win playoff games. I think it would be a quirky, fluky loss. They almost lost last year to Washington. We know they're better when Leonard Fernett and the run game is good, and right now they're all beat up. I don't think we'd crush Tampa. I think we'd kind of marvel at how in the hell.

did Philadelphia do it? Who would we really crush if they lost this weekend? There's a couple that jump out to me. The two that really jump out to me, Matt Stafford and the Rams lose. And by the way, tough draw. They just beat Arizona. They got to play them again. Arizona's 8 and 1 in the road.

Arizona's got a quarterback that does stuff you can't really defend off script. There's a high probability. Arizona could beat the Rams. but because of the move off Goff and move into Stafford, you kind of pushed all your chips on the quarterback table, and Matt Stafford's never, I don't think he's ever won a playoff game, right? Like, that's the knock on him.

He's got a lot of talent. He's never want a playoff game. I don't think we'd crush the Rams per se. I think Matt Stafford would really get beat up if he lost this weekend on Monday. The second one is pretty obvious. Dallas, Dak, and Mike McCarthy. because McCarthy has butchered the clock in several moments this year.

The media doesn't love him. They've won a weak division. They continue to dominate the NFC East, but are kind of average six and five this year against everybody else. They're at home. Dak puts up huge numbers against teams that are bad. So to me, Stafford is really going to get tagged if he loses. And Mike McCarthy with a little Dak.

I mean, Dax got his money. We know he's a franchise quarterback. It's just like if McVeigh loses, we're going to blame Stafford. We're not going to blame McVeigh. He's boy wonder. If Dak loses, he got the bag. Everybody likes Dak. He had a good year statistically.

So I think the two people that really could have a rough Monday or Tuesday around the country on opinion shows are Matt Stafford and Mike McCarthy coach of the Cowboys. And here's Joy Taylor with the news. No, no, no, no. Turn on the news. This is the herd life. news. Well, Ben Simmons has been the topic of a lot of trade discussions this season, but the Sixers have maintained that they want a top 25 player in return for him, and they will not settle for anything

less. According to Woge, he thinks that this is something that could drag on all the way to the draft. He said right now, Philly continues to be content to wait, and their philosophy all along has been if we get a trade package back, that it doesn't make us a championship contender, doesn't get us back to the level that we felt we were with Ben Simmons. We're not going to do it. I think even with a month left the deadline, there's a real chance this goes beyond the deadline. So the trade deadline is February 10th. Ben Simmons hasn't played in an NBA game since June 20th of 2021. So it's been a while. And there's a lot of questions from teams about what version of Ben Simmons they're going to get. And with his contract, the way that it is, it's, I'm sure, very difficult to try and come up with a deal that would

satisfy both whoever is getting Ben Simmons and the Philadelphia 76ers, who clearly want a lot in exchange for him. It just feels like an ongoing stalemate with this whole situation. And we've talked about it a lot. But, you know, when you, he has three more seasons with a combined 108.8 million left on his deal after the season through 24, 2024, 2025. So it's kind of a stalemate to me. Like, this is a situation that they should have handled before it got to this point.

I find him to be the most unlikable American professional athlete. I can't there's nothing about Ben Simmons I like I think he's arrogant aloof not coachable won't get better doesn't feel like he loves his sport I have I just wouldn't want him I know he's talented but I mean I always feel like with football players they love their sport like I always feel like they really care about their teammates I just can't imagine doing this to the people that I work with having what if I had a holdout here for a year and I had a problem and I wouldn't work on the problem I find Ben and by the way I keep looking at what Philadelphia wants in return. Well, they want a top 25 player. But my question with any kind of Ben Simmons trade is this. Could you, if you're trading for Ben Simmons, do you think that Ben Simmons could be a part of a championship winning team? I don't.

I don't either. Yeah. I don't either. There's no evidence of that as of yet. And we talk about this all the time where talent is obviously wildly important, but so is fit. So is chemistry. So is consistency. So is availability. So is getting along with your teammates. So if you're bringing in Ben Simmons, you're in my mind, likely just a team that is trying to stay relevant and competitive isn't necessarily in the championship conversation. If I'm a championship

team, and these are a lot of questions that people are having with Ben Simmons, we know what kind of talent he has, but what version of him are you getting? And is he going to come in and wreck the locker room because we don't know what kind of version of him we're getting. They've also been trying to shop Tobias Harris with Simmons as a package deal. Harris's contract is worth $40 million a year over the next two season. But Tobias is a nice

player. What a shock. They want to get rid of indifferent Ben Simmons and wildly overcompensated Tobias Harris, who's a nice player, but I can't pay Tobias. Tobias Harris is not a... If you're going to pay in the NFL 40 million, it's got to be a quarterback. I don't have to love Dax contract, but he's a quarterback. He touches the ball 68 times a game. If you're

paying... No quite. No quiet. Philadelphia is now saying, we want you to take Tobias Harris's contract. Yeah, of course you do. It's a bad contract. Well, that's what I'm saying. So if you are, if you're a team trading for this kind of package or for Ben Simmons, your team is trying to stay relevant. But you probably don't have a top 25 player, which is why this stalemate of a trade deal is happening.

So Mack Jones struggled in Sundays 33, 24 loss to the Dolphins. Patriots always struggle late against Miami in the season. Just the way it is. It doesn't matter who the quarterback is. So not a great performance. But yesterday, Josh McDaniels came to the defensive. as rookie quarterback. Yeah, I mean, I think each person has a right to feel however they feel.

You know, to me personally, I'm never embarrassed in the effort that our players give. You know, they always compete to the end. And look, we make mistakes. We're human. We don't always do things perfect. But I thought we tried to fight back in the game and play as hard as we could to try to win. And Mack had a lot to do with that. Well, yeah, 67.7 completion percentage, 261 yards, one touchdown, one interception, and with sacked twice.

They play the bills on Sunday, and they're currently four-point underdogs, according to Fox Bet. I'm really interested to see what the game plan is for the Patriots against the bills this weekend. Because Bill Belichick has a lot of success against the bills. And for the record, Josh Allen's still a young quarterback, and Belichick owns him. Five times he's faced Josh Allen. I think it's five. Josh Allen's two and three. So we have a history here.

Anybody under 25 that quarterbacks, 25 or younger, you're going to, you know, Peyton Manning didn't. Mahomes is an exception. Like, Young Cam was an exception because they can do stuff off script. Overwhelmingly, and maybe that's Josh Allen. Young quarterbacks, 25 and under,

struggle against Bill. That's why I think the underdog is the bet here. New England's the bet, whether they win or not, that's the side to be. I get New England over a field goal. This game's going to be close. So the Steelers are going to Kansas City on Sunday to face the Chiefs in the Wild Card rounds, and Mike Tomlin said they're not going to let their week 16 loss to Kansas City paralyze them.

We're not paralyzed by that. We accept that we didn't play well enough last time. We accept that we didn't plan well enough last time, but that's last time. And we're excited about the process of readiness this time, putting together a better plan, putting our guys in position to make more consistent plays. particularly in a weighty moment, situational ball, and going in and playing. Well, that was a rough loss. They lost 36 to 10 after falling behind 30-0.

So that was not a great day for the Steelers in Kansas City. Ben was also sacked twice and pressured nine times, and they had three turnovers in the game and interception and two-lust fumbles. So if they can not turn the ball over so much, and perhaps they can keep it closer, they're currently 12.5 point underdogs, according to a fox bet. realistically don't have great expectations for the Steelers in Kansas City. I'm excited to watch them.

I'm glad they're in the postseason. I'm happy for Mike Tomlin. I'm really actually excited for March in the Steelers. I think they have to go big at quarterback. And I think, I'll say it again, I get Chase Claypool, T.J. Watt, Minka Fitzpatrick, a smart defensive coach. Naji Harris. Naji Harris, Chase Claypool, a potential superstar young tight end.

O'Line's got two young guys. I think good quarterback, really good team. If you told me Aaron Rogers, probably won't happen. Aaron or Russell ended up in Pittsburgh, I have no problem saying top four or five Super Bowl finalists. I think even if someone like Jimmy G or even on a lower level, someone like Mitch Trubisky ended up there. Just for a bridge quarterback. I'm not talking about them being competitive. If they don't take someone in the draft this year, they need someone for the next year or two.

I'm not, listen, I'm not like pitching this on anybody. I'm just saying you don't have the answer in-house and you can't fall behind in this division. They have so many good young players. What if they went to Minnesota and said, we'll eat Kirk Cousins contract for a year? So he was a bridge as they drafted the kid from Pittsburgh because they're not Panaghi Harris, Chase Claypool,

they're tight end. I mean, Minka they are, but they're not paying a lot of their good players. If you can't get an Aaron Rogers, if you can't get a Russell Wilson, there's not that many, other than Jimmy G, there's not that many guys in the market. I know Deshawn Watson's name keeps coming up, but I don't think that the Steelers are going to do that. And again, Deshawn Watson has no trade clause. So he's really going to play a big factor in where he goes as well. Good stuff,

Joy with the News. Well, that's the news. And thanks for stopping by. The Hurd Lie News. The way I look at Joe Judge is it happens in every industry. Sometimes you hire somebody for a job. They're very young. They don't have a lot of experience to be in this space, and they're over their head. I had a source inside the Giants building and outside the Giants building, and they both basically said the same thing. Joe Judge was a little over his head. Well, it's a hard job. Nick right now joins us live. First things first.

I mean, to you, what went wrong with? You're talking about me, buddy? No, no, no, no. That seemed like a direct shot at me. He hires someone real young, an unknown. He's in over his head. I had people in and out of the building. What type of introduction is that?

Okay. You know I love you. You're great. You're one of the one. You're the McVeigh. You're the McVeigh. You're the Schaunt McDermott. You work. But a lot of times we over think this stuff. And it's just like, hey, he got into a job. New York's a tough market. He was over his skis. That's what my people told me. It's like not a bad guy. Just a little bit of a Belichickian, you know, my way or the highway, like Patricia, like Josh McDaniels, like Brian Flores. And it rubbed people the wrong way. In your eyes, what went wrong? Well, yeah, I don't think he was ready for the job. I also think that's a bad roster. And I think, Colin, I think of the six jobs that are currently available, the giants are clearly the worst. Did you know that going into next season, they are already over the salary cap for next year? They have the fit. They are minus two million for next year's cap. The only teams with less cap space than them, it's the package.

who are obviously in win now mode, the Saints who mortgaged a lot for Drew Brees. It's all the Vikings. It's all the competitive teams and the giants. So they don't have a quarterback. There's not an obvious quarterback in this draft. They have this super expensive defense that is not playing up to its cap at all. So I think Joe Judge was bad, but I think Dave Gettelman was far worse. And you can get over the judge mistake. The Gettelman mistakes are going to live on for the next few years. So if I'm looking at available jobs, Jacksonville's intriguing, Chicago is super intriguing, and then at the bottom of the list right now is the Giants, even in a winnable NFC East.

To me, they're like an expansion franchise right now, but without the money. So I think they're in a real rough spot, Colin. I was saying, of all the favorites that could lose, if Matt Stafford lost, fair or not, I think he would get clobbered. is there somebody, so I think Matt faces a lot of pressure this weekend. They gave up picks. They gave up a Super Bowl quarterback in Jared Goff. Goff was winning.

He had won the division. Right or wrong. I mean, if I said to you, who faces real pressure this weekend, Nick? For you, who is it? Oh, I think it's obvious. And I was listening to this and I was shocked you didn't go there. I think the bills absolutely unequivocally 100% have to win this game. Colin, the Patriots are playing their worst football of the year right now.

The Patriots are starting a rookie quarterback who is playing the worst football of his season right now. The Bills made the conference championship game last year. They have, you know, the star MVP-ish fringe quarterback. They have home field. They won the division. The Patriots just lost to a team that then fired their coach. In the previous week, they lost to a team in the game. college that missed the playoffs. I think there is the real pressure of, if not now, when?

If the bills can't get over the Patriots hump now, then when will they? So I think if the bills were playing, say the Chargers had made it. If they were playing the Chargers and Herbert plays a great game and the Chargers beat them, I think you're like, oh, man, it's a disappointing year. But we won the division again. We, you know, just bad timing, bad luck on a random NFL Saturday or Sunday. If you lose to the Patriots, it's the feeling of, oh, my God, Big Brother came back and beat us again. Because if you can't beat this Patriot team, then what are you going to do when Max not a rookie, when they are better? So I think the bills far in a way have the most to lose, if you will, this weekend if they don't win.

And it seems like Colin Coward might be a little worried about his beloved Josh Allen being able to win. talking about taking the points, my friend, might be a little nervous about Josh Allen. I am, actually. So it's interesting. I saw PFF ranked all the quarterbacks, and they have their way of ranking based on, you know, the performances, and they've got all their, you know, algorithms, whatever they use. So they have Mahomes 10th, and that feels weird. They also have Russell Wilson 19th, and he did, you know, he broke a bone in his throwing hand. They have Lamar 16.

And so here's their top 10. So let me just throw this out at you. So the two things I would say that are very clear about Mahomes. And this was also exactly what his college scouting report was. One, he's a spectacular transformational talent. And two, he can go into kind of weird mechanics-driven slumps. twice in his career, he's got into two six-game slumps. Even the Super Bowl year, last six regular season games.

Something's off. Is that a fair? So I don't put him 10th, but I did think for about half the year. He wasn't as good as Justin Herbert. He wasn't as good as Aaron Rogers. He wasn't as good as Kyler for long stretches this year. No, he had the first slump of his career. I disagree on the Super Bowl year because you've got to keep in mind,

the games are wrong on the Super Bowl year. Those are right after it looked like he. He blew out his knee against the Broncos. So I think it was more injury-related that it took time because it was the first real injury he's had. But can we put up that PFF list again? Okay. Because I like PFF. I've known Sam Monson for 12 years back when they were just a little, you know, rag-tag outfit out of Cincinnati and he was living in Ireland.

I like the crew there. However, Colin, I don't have many rules and I don't have their proprietary algorithm. But a rule is this. if you watch this football season and you thought Kurt Cousins was better than Patrick Mahomes you don't know what you're talking about you gotta throw it in the trash

you gotta start from scratch boys and girls if whatever the Algo spits out is yeah Kurt Cousins was better than Mahomes huh really oh Matt Stafford was better than Mahomes Matt Stafford who led the NFL Interceptions he was better than Mahomes okay oh Josh Allen

Josh Allen who just two weeks ago against the Falcons had a passer rating of 17, and last week was in a nippintuck game against the Jets for three and a half quarters. I'm getting choked up talking about it. They're better than Mahomes. So, yes, if you want to say, of course, Rogers was better than Mahomes this year,

you want to make the argument Burrow was better than Mahomes over the entirety of the year? Sure. I know, with Herbert, you know, call me old-fashioned, Colin, for a guy who now is, you know, neck and neck with the Homes and the AFC is his, you'd like to see them in the playoffs, but hey, or they could finish 10th in the conference.

Expanded playoffs, they finished 10th. How far we got to expand them to get your charges in, Colin, 10th place? All right, that's fair, that's fair. That's not great. So I saw on Twitter, and, you know, it's a little bit of a toilet, but you get people worked up on that device, and I think it's really funny. So the best basketball team I've ever seen, and again, the rules allowed them to play the way they played was the 95-96 bulls. You could use the hand check. They were a bizarrely physical team.

They were a bizarrely, well, they were well-coached. They had great players. They were wildly physical. They had Ron Harper, Pippin, Jordan, Rodman. They had a unique roster of unbelievable defensive players, all with length, all tough guys, all intimidating. That's the best team I've ever seen. And I think if you could use the 96 rules, they would beat the Warriors with Katie and Steph.

They'd push them around the skinny jeans guys. Oh, okay. But you're making arguments. Warriors with KD and MJ's Bulls. You just absolutely love the warriors. Okay. Well, let's just do a thought experiment real quick. Okay.

Let's go five years ago, right after the 2016 Warriors were done. And we were to say, who are the best teams in NBA history? We don't have to order them. Yeah. So the 72 Lakers would be on there. The Sixers, remember the Sixers when they finally broke through, they had Moses and Dr. and that Sixers team was unbelievable.

85 Lakers, 86 Celtics, 96 Bulls, 2,000 Lakers, or 2001 Lakers, pardon me, and the 2016 Warriors. Those are probably the seven greatest teams ever. And then we were to say, so here's what's going to happen. Take any of those teams,

and before you match them up against any of the others, you get to take the second best player in the league and add them to that team. Who do you got? So, yeah, the 2016 Warriors, who before LeBron ended their season were in the discussion for the greatest team ever, they added Kevin Durant to that team, and then went 15 and O to start the playoffs. And my other, so there's that.

There's just the logical thing of, well, how good would the 96 Bulls be if they just, in 97, added Akeem Olajuwon? Oh, they'd probably be the best team ever. Like, it'd probably be good. What if the 86 Celtics added Michael Jordan in the off season? That's probably the 87 Celtics. It's probably going to be the best team ever. There's that.

But then there's also this. So can we agree, Colin, that Katie and Steph are going to give you about as much output as Michael and Scotty? Like, Michael's the best player of the four. But then Katie and Steph are clearly better than Scotty. Scotty's the fourth. Yeah, true. So if their top twos almost cancel each other out, well, you got Clay Thompson,

Andre Guadala, Draymond Green on one side of the ledger. You have Dennis Rodman, Tony Kukoch, and Luke Longley on the other side of the leg. I'm going to go with Option A. I'm going to go ahead and walk through that door. But the problem is this, Colin,

for the folks of your generation and I work with many of them. It could be, hey, guys, here's the setup. You can have the five greatest players of the last 20 years versus Michael Jordan and his blood relatives. Who have you gotten?

Michael, Michael's not going to let you lose that game. I'm like, oh, Michael, and, oh, is hand-checking allowed? Oh, sweet Christ. I don't know if the other team will score. I mean, we got to at some point admit that the 73-win team that added Kevin Durant's probably the best team to ever play. All right. It's probably the best team.

I think these are very, I'm going to sleep on that one. You may have changed my mind. That's a pretty good argument. Oh, yeah, hand-checking. I mean, there's hand-checking, guys. Guys, don't forget about hand-checking. All right, Nick, good seeing you, buddy. It may make some very, very good point.

And the other point that should be made is that that Jordan team couldn't get through the Pistons until they got old. They couldn't beat Detroit. And Detroit, to me, is one of the most underrated. That whole Lambere, Isaiah Mahorn team was so, they were the 75 Pittsburgh Steelers. I don't know if they were the most skilled. They were so physically intimidating. Like that Pistons team that Michael Jordan couldn't get through. I don't know if they're the most skilled.

Isaiah and a bunch of bees, but man, they were good. And Chuck Daly was a great coach. All right, back in a second of the herd. Be sure to catch live editions of the herd weekdays in noon Eastern 9 a.m. Pacific. Hey, this is Jason McIntyre. Join me every weekday morning on my podcast, Straight Fire with Jason McIntyre. This isn't your typical sports pod pushing the same tired narratives down your throat every day. Straight Fire gives you honest opinions on all the big.

biggest sports headlines, accurate stats to help you win big at the sports book, and all the best guests. Do yourself a favor and listen to Straight Fire with Jason McIntyre on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds.

I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care which I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media.

Well, somewhere along the way, this platform. became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes

of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So, if you've ever supported me

or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tap Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs?

Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do with Little Kim? Well, you're going to be. You can find out on the Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam Jett. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick it here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it.

Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 is big to me, not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack on day, but yeah, yeah, literally. But just so you all know. I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack. So I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now. Thank you finishing that sentence.

Yes. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really? Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hard Way with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kear Games. And in recognition of mental health awareness month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and comments.

conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking. Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing. And we're still chasing it. And we don't know when we've done enough.

Because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross. Because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth? Or are you a good person because you're afraid? Because that's two different intentions. bro absolutely and that that's two different levels of trust i want you to just really be a good person

join me keer gains is we have real conversations about healing growth fatherhood pressure and purpose on my new podcast learn the hard way open your free iHeart radio app search learn the hard way and listen now you know when georgia won the national championship it just got me thinking this nick wright conversation's interesting is that modern players are just way better athletes stronger, faster, the coaching's better, the schemes are better. If this Georgia Bulldog team faced the 1980 team with Herschel Walker, this Georgia bulldog team would beat them 60-0. It wouldn't even be competitive.

The size of Georgia's athletes and how fast they run, used to be the big uglies, just didn't run like that. Now guys run four, five-eighths, four-six-fives, and they're 290. So it is interesting when you talk about the Jordan team and the warrior team, and Nick makes great points. But it's fascinating. romanticize in sports. And a classic example is they do 30 for 30s on the New York Knicks, that New York

Knicks team. And nobody could shoot on it. Nobody could shoot. If you go back to the Reggie Miller, New York Knicks series, which are revered, a hollowed ground, Google the number of free throws shot during the games. The games were unwatchable. They had these rare emotional moments, Spike Lee, Reggie Miller. There's 60 free throw shot in these games.

It was unwatchable. But the romanticism about those Knicks teams, and I'm not picking on New York because of the giant situation. It's just, I used to watch those teams. Nobody could shoot. Charles Oakley, Anthony Mason, even Starks was a guard, wasn't a good shooter. It's just the reality of athletes now are so much better today. Nobody played like Kevin Durant and Dirk Novitsky 25, 30 years ago. They just didn't play like that.

You didn't have 7-foot-1 guys who were the best shooters. I always tell the Dirk-Novitsky story. I'm in Portland years ago. and I'm getting ready for a live shot. I'm a local TV reporter, and I'm getting ready for a live shot. And Dirk Novitsky's out early shooting. And seven footer Dirk Novitsky, and I'm 6'2. So when I stand next to Dirk Novitsky, I look like a little boy,

and I'm bigger than the average man in America, right? I'm 6'2, the average American man's like 511, 5, 10 and a half or whatever. Novitsky's a giant. He towers over by almost a foot. He like goes 28 for 29, around the three-point circle. And he's not just shooting jumpers. He's stepping back.

He's leaning in. He's a couple dribbles. 28 of 29 on three-pointers. If you want to know, I mean, the best shooting guard 15 years earlier couldn't couldn't do that. But I always go to one thing when it comes to athleticism. Go look at the slam dunks in the NBA slam dunk contest that won in the 80s. From like, I'm talking about my.

Michael Jordan. I'm talking about like Dr. J dunks. And there's one or two Dr. J moments, you know, the swooping sigh, the one movie made all time great dunk. But if you go look at the dunks that won the dunk contest back in the 80s, and look at the dunks high school sophomores now do on YouTube. High school sophomores do. So 28-year-old Michael Jordan's dunk isn't nearly as our.

artistic or phenomenal of feat in most instances as some 16 and a half year old in Carmel, Indiana. So the athleticism and this. And now you could say, well, if we gave the old guys this nutrition, blah, blah, blah. Babe Ruth was 6'2, my size, and weighed like 220 and had a gut. And if you watch the old video, he looked like a giant. he would be, by today's standards, a tiny pitcher. He looked like a giant physical specimen back in the 20s and 30s. When you look at old video, so much bigger than everybody,

go look at the average height of the L.A. Angels pitching staff. Or, I don't know, the Houston Astros pitching staff. Like, athletes now are so much bigger, so much stronger, the coaching so much better, the schemes are better. I just don't romanticize. The Jordan Bulls were so great for so many reasons, including the coach. But Nick's arguments are, you know, well-founded and hard to dispute. Hour two, around the corner, live in L.A., it's the herd.

Another podcast from some SNL late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smigel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel, help an Acapella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter.

Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care which I'll say it. Yep, that's me. Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, my basketball and college football journey, or my career in sports media. Well, now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast.

The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfills of conversations with athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. So let's get to it. Listen to The Clifford Show on the IHeard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. On the Look Back at it podcast. For 1979, that was a big moment for me.

84's big to me. I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick you here, unpack what went down. and try to make sense of how we survived it with our friends, fellow comedians, and favorite authors. Like Mark Lamont Hill on the 80s.

Before it was a wild year. It was a wild year. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Imagine an Olympics where doping

is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth.

Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an I-Hart podcast. Guaranteed Human.