The Herd with Colin Cowherd - HOUR 1 - Lakers, Michigan, Zion

Episode Date: February 17, 2022

Lakers star Anthony Davis is hurt againMichigan HC Jim Harbaugh has a new contractIs Zion Williamson a bust?Guest: Andrew Whitworth Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. Another podcast from some SNL, late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter.

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Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, what's good, y'all? You're listening to Learn the Hard Way with your favorite therapist and host Kear Games.

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Ah, here we go on a Thursday, live in Los Angeles, it's the herd. Wherever you may be, and however you may be listening, IHeart Radio, Fox Sports Radio, FS1. It is great to have you in today, everybody from Andrew Whitworth, Peter King, Aidan Hutchinson, probably going to go number one in the NFL draft, all stopping by today. So when you're rebuilding something, one of the keys is don't get distracted by the little stuff. If you're rebuilding something, you've got to look at the big picture, right? We all know that. Don't get distracted if you're the Lakers because you beat Utah. Last night, Anthony Davis got hurt. Again, it looked brutal, like really brutal.

They say he's out two to four weeks. I'm sorry, but if you watch the injury, That's not a two-week injury. Dude's out for a month. He's increasingly brittle, and we know that. And the Lakers are in ninth place in the West. They're not the ninth best NBA team. They're ninth right now in the West. They're not close to a Milwaukee.

They're not close to a Philadelphia. They're not as good as Miami in the east. I said it yesterday. Before he got hurt, I would trade Anthony Davis and start over. This is not a great roster. It's an old roster. It lacks great chemistry. It doesn't have depth.

Don't get distracted beating. Utah. The Rams are celebrating a Super Bowl. You're clinging to a win over Utah. You're ninth in the West. What's remarkable about this is LeBron is still excellent. He has a chance. He'll either win the scoring title or finish second. LeBron was dominating in the fourth quarter last night. He's really a marvel, a physical marvel, absolutely great. And a guy that'll get MVP votes can't get this roster above ninth. And LeBron's never really worked or flourished. with young teammates. He struggled with Mario Chalmers in Miami. He didn't want anything to do with Andrew Wiggins in Cleveland. And first thing he did in L.A., he never got along with Kuzma,

the Josh Hart, the Lonzo Balls. He flushed him out. So AD was a natural fit, right? A veteran, been around, bad franchise, come join LeBron. The problem is he's now become the worst possible teammate of 19th year LeBron. He's simply undenelial. And what you have in the NBA, and it's something we've always known, right? Like I say in the NFL, you can't be terrible in any unit in the NFL. Bengals are really, really bad on the offensive line. It costs them the Super Bowl because the coaching's too good in the NFL. You don't have to be great at everything.

You don't have to be great at a lot. You can't be terrible at anything. In the NBA, you have got to have second and third scoring options. Even Kobe Bryant, after Shaq and before Powell, lousy Laker team. Michael Jordan before Pippin ever won a playoff series. I mean, these are the greatest players of all time. The problem is now Milwaukee's got a second and third option. Philadelphia just got a second great option.

Tobias Harris, a solid third. Phoenix has three or four options. Golden State several. With Anthony Davis's unreliability, Lakers don't have a second option on any given night. And there's nothing to grab onto with this organization. Are they an elite three-point shooting team? Nah.

Are they an elite defensive team? Nah. What are they great at? Do they have great chemistry? Nah. How about draft picks? No, youth. Some young ascending players.

No, don't have that either. This is a blow-up roster. That's what it is. And Anthony Davis will come back, and between he and LeBron, they'll win a playoff series. Buy low, sell high. I think it's time to move off Anthony Davis. I don't think you should look at it as a failure.

He came as a brittle player, got you a championship, and I've said this before. The pandemic did the Lakers, more than any team in this league, a huge favor. It gave brittle AD and older LeBron a three and a half to four-month hiatus. They have never duplicated it. It's been disappointing since.

And that injury was not a two-to-three-week injury. That was brutal. That was like watching at home, hard to watch a second time. I'm sitting there. That's a cringe injury. That is, that is, maybe not Joe Thaisman, but like ugly, ugly injury for a big guy who keeps getting hurt more regularly. I think it's time to move off him and start over. You got Super Bowl champs down the street celebrating.

Lakers now are not a top 12 team in the NBA. Don't get distracted beating Utah. So Warren Sharp does a lot of analytic stuff in the NFL. His guys do a really good job. And so they did some homework and came out with this. And I think it's kind of interesting. The teams that have outperformed preseason expectations the most in the last half decade. Saints, Titans, Bill, Chiefs, Rams.

Do they all have great quarterbacks? No. Was Jared Gough? For most of the last five years, great. Ryan Tannehill. And then he has the teams that underperformed preseason expectations most in the last five years. Excuse me.

Giants, Broncos, Jets, Jags, Lions, Bengals, Panthers, Falcons. Well, you could say they all have bad quarterbacks. No, they don't. Lions had Matt Stafford. What is the only thing that we can align these two groups? Coaches. the teams that outperform the last five years all have excellent coaches the teams that underperform all have fired coaches and Zach Taylor and let's be honest is he a great coach

I'm not sure I didn't have a great Super Bowl Sean McVeigh winning a Super Bowl crowned him he's a made man I would argue today there are eight coaches that I consider great coaches and all of them have have something I can wrap my arms around that makes them a great coach. To me, the eight great coaches in the NFL are Sean McDermott, Mike Vrable, Mike Tomlin, John Harbaugh, Sean McVeigh, Kyle Shanahan, Andy Reed, and Belichick. And keep that up there. All of them have something we know to be true. Belichick is the greatest defensive coach ever. Andy Reid's the great play designer. Shanahan is the Brainiac. Tomlin is kind of an emotional, motivating coach.

Mike Vrable, similar to Tomlin, holds it together, great culture builder. Sean McVeigh, the young genius. And Sean McDermott, the best young defensive coach in football. John Harbaugh also falls into, like Vrable and Tomlin, a great culture builder. And what about Matt LaFleur? And that's an interesting question to me. I don't have Matt LaFleur in that. So Matt LaFleur came into this league.

We knew him as one of the three musketeers, right? is Kyle Shanahan, Sean McVeigh and Matt LaFleur in Washington. Now, privately, those three would all admit that Shanahan is schematically A-plus-plus. McVe would tell you that privately. I'm not as good as Kyle schematically. McVeigh is known as great in front of people. Great personality. Big personality.

Great in the room. Amazingly optimistic positive culture builder. Lefleur's neither. What's his strength? Now I know what you're saying. Excuse me. You're saying, well, a look at Green Bay's record since he arrived. It's better than McCarthy.

Has anybody ever considered what I'm about to say? When Mike McCarthy coached Green Bay in that division, Jim Caldwell for four years was the coach of Detroit, he and Matt Stafford, they had a winning record three of those four years. They once won 11 games. Now, Detroit fired him because they're Detroit. Matt LeFleur inherited Matt Patricia in Detroit. Utterly incompetent.

Sorry, folks. Utterly incompetent. So let's look at Chicago. Mike McCarthy had to face Jay Cutler. Jay Cutler's pretty good. Got to the playoffs. Matt LeFleur got Mitch Trubisky and Justin Fields. Minnesota. They peaked before Matt LaFleur got there. Two years before.

Stefansky left. The offense has never been the same. I'll get through this, I promise. Sean McDermott is young, and I give him a lot of credit. Why? Because Sean McDermott in Buffalo got Tyrod Taylor to the playoffs, was in a division with Bill Belichick and Brady, oversaw the development of a quarterback, created a great defensive front. He gets credit for that. Matt LaFleur inherited a worst division, inherited a good roster, inherited a Hall of Fame quarterback. And because he's winning more in the regular season,

we think he's a better coach than McCarthy. McCarthy dominated that division too, and it was better. they had a competent coach for four years in Jim Caldwell. Caldwell and Stafford, the four years together, three of them, they had a winning record. One year they won 11. Jake Cutler was in the division. Like him or not, he's better than Trubesky and a rookie Justin Fields. Minnesota had peaked before LaFleur got there.

They lost Defansky. Offense has never been the same. Kevin's a great offensive coach. Great play caller. McDermott built things. That to me is a great coach. LaFleur inherited things. it doesn't mean you can't be great, but there's no proof you are.

People say, well, he's dominating the division. Mike McCarthy dominated the division. Bill O'Brien won his division four times in six and a half years. Is he a great head coach? When you look at Aaron Rogers and what he's going to do, now, by the way, Green Bay loses their offensive coordinator and the quarterback coach. Are we sure, when you look at Warren Sharp and all these overperforming and underperforming teams. The only common thread, you've got to have a great coach. Matt LaFleur has a losing record

in the playoffs and he's losing at home as a favorite with Aaron Rogers. Are we really truly sure? Don't tell me, look at his records. That division now is a tire fire. McCarthy faced a better Detroit, a better Chicago, and a peaking Minnesota. I think it's interesting. I don't know what it all means. I know Aaron has a great relationship with Matt. It seems to. And that's important.

But I think there's eight coaches, and I didn't include Pete Carroll, because I think in 2022 NFL football, that's offensive-minded, he's fallen behind. I think his hires and draft picks have been very, very suboptimal. So it's just interesting when I kind of look at who, as our football season ends, and we move into free agency here in a few weeks, who's overperforming every year. You want to be one of those fan bases.

Who's underperforming? It's not always tied to quarterback, though generally is. What it's tied to is your coach. And sometimes we get fooled. Mike McCarthy kind of fooled us. Little Brian kind of fooled us. Are we absolutely sure? Matt Lefleur isn't kind of fooling us.

See, I told you I'd get through it. Had a cough attack. Happens. Once, twice a year it happens. Yeah, that's right. Coffee does cure a lot of things. So Jim Harbaugh's coming back to Michigan. Is Zion Williamson a bust?

And interesting story out of Cleveland this morning about the Browns and their quarterback situation. I think we all have to be adults, grown-ups, put down the pom-poms, and be honest, they're looking around, according to somebody I trust. Be sure to catch live editions of the herd weekdays in noon Eastern, 9 a.m. Pacific. on Fox Sports Radio, FS1, and the IHeart Radio app.

Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth.

Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hart Ration. radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me, Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media.

Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right

where you need to be. Listen to the Clifford Show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Hey, this is Robert from the Stuff to Blow Your Mind podcast. Joe and I are both lifelong Star Wars fan, so we're celebrating May the 4th with a brand new week of fun, thought-provoking Star Wars-related episodes. Join us as we tackle science and culture topics from a galaxy far, far away, such as the biology of tontons and wampas on the ice planet hot, or the practicality and corporate business sense of the Sith rule of two. Listen to stuff to blow your mind on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tap Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do with Little Kim? Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam Jek. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick a here, unpack what we're.

down and try to make sense of how we survived it. Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill, waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 is big to me, not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack all day, but just so you all know. I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack. So I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now.

Thank you finishing that sentence. Yes. I don't think there's a more important year for black people who, Really? Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Now entering No Bull Zone, sponsored by Credible. Great rates. None of the Bull. So the story is out. Jim Harbaugh has agreed to a new five-year contract with Michigan. I love college football, and I think Michigan's really important for the sport.

My guess is he'll make another run at the NFL. He's still mid-50s. Jim will, you know, he's going going to have teams come after him time and time again. We flush through about seven, eight, nine coaches a year. He's going to get another look. But there is an argument to be made that, and a strong one, that Harbaugh is a better college fit than a pro fit. Number one is the great players in college football stay there are three years, maybe four if they redshirt, most don't. So Jim's very, very intense. It's very much Nick Saban. By the time Nick wears you out, you're off to the NFL. You know, there were stories in San Francisco where Jim could wear people out. He wore the general manager out. He wore some players out. So he's a very

intense guy. It's part of his personality. It's part of his greatness. But there's an argument that in college, it's perfect. About three or four years of Jim and you move on to the NFL. Number two, in college, he has control, really total control of his personnel. Jim likes that. It fits his personality. He's he likes control. The new NFL is very much into the word collaborative. That's the very, that's very much Sean McVeigh. I would say Jim Harbaugh's a little. I would say Jim Harbaugh's little old school. He's more Bill O'Brien, John Gruden, even Brian Flores

as a rookie coach, is not what you would say collaborative. They're pretty intense. It's their way. And so those guys sometimes can have trouble. Plus, Mel Tucker

at Michigan State now, Michigan's got to have a really big boy football coach because Mel Tucker's good. Ohio State seemingly always good. This goes to a bigger level. I worry about the health of college football. Because in my lifetime, I used to talk a lot of college basketball, and now I don't. And college basketball is not a healthy sport.

There's a reason Roy Williams and Mike Shishowski, one retired, one is retiring, and they didn't have to. They could have certainly coached for years. College basketball is no longer healthy. Therefore, I don't talk about it. Therefore, a sport I grew up loving is sort of gone. I've always said this about boxing. It was so poorly run. and it didn't have a CEO that Dana White and the UFC,

it was a wide open for them to steal headlines and steal a lot of people who, like myself included, like fights, like fight night. So I worry about the health of college football. I think they'll overcome some of the issues with the NIL and the transfer portal. It's a little, you know, it's a little sloppy right now. They'll put up a couple of guardrails. Players will get paid. They'll be able to transfer, hopefully not in season.

and hopefully we won't use all this name image likeness money for high school players. It'll go to the players that are at the school already. That part I like. But I think there's eight programs, and I really do worry because in my lifetime, I've seen baseball makes a lot of money, but nobody talks about it, and college basketball and boxing. And the NFL just gets stronger, and I don't want my show to just be the NFL network. I think college football matters.

And I think there's eight programs in college football that matter more than other programs. do not know if they're the winningest program, but they have things that matter. Geographically, they matter. Branding, they matter. I think Alabama is the biggest, best program in the South. The South is a huge component to college football. I think Miami, USC and Texas are what I would call glamour programs in cool cities. They matter.

College football's last big rating was USC and Texas in the national championship. It got like an NFL playoff rating. I think Ohio State and Michigan matter a lot. in the heart, the middle of the country. That is a huge. Big Ten has always been, to me, the most popular conference in college football. The SEC is better,

but if you're talking about massive schools, massive stadiums, massive fans, and the ability to interest the Northeast and the West Coast, the South, nobody out here in the West cares much about the SEC, nor do they in the Northeast. Big Ten, you can sell it in L.A.

You can sell it in New York and Boston. And then I think Notre Dame is the great independent, iconic, maybe the biggest brand in the sport. But I think those eight matter for the health of the sport. Clemson, Georgia, I'm not saying they're not good. Wisconsin, Penn State, Oregon, I'm not saying they don't matter. But Michigan's one of the absolute eight when those eight I give you were rolling. And by the way, it's very rare when they're all rolling. Miami and USC have been down for years.

The sports ratings have gone down over the last eight years. So Lincoln Riley is important. Mario Cristobal is important. Jim Harbaugh is really, really important for this sport. Otherwise, it'll become college basketball, and we just don't talk about it. And I love it as much as anything outside of maybe the NFL. Alex Curry with the news.

No, no, no, no. Turn on the news. This is the herd line news. Well, the Browns are committed in some form to Baker Mayfield, but there appears to be some doubts creeping into his long-term future with the organization. An article in Cleveland.com said they expect Browns to look into a few veteran quarterbacks and look at the possibility of upgrading from Mayfield. However, if that does not prove realistic, Mayfield will be supported in every way possible.

But this is not surprising considering how his season won. He was injured most of the season. He played through it. The fans turned on him. He said he didn't care if he got booed by the fans. Media turned on him too. Everyone turned. But I think the biggest thing was OBJ getting the Rams to the Super Bowl.

I don't think that helped his case in any way. No. And it depends. The story says they will look at veteran quarterback. So what do they mean by that? So Deshawn Watson's 26. But he's been in the league long enough where you think, yes, of course I would, I would upgrade to Deshawn Watson.

Derek Carr, although I don't think he'll leave the Raiders. Of course I would upgrade to Derek Carr. The question is Carson Wentz. See, I would. 6.5.2. 237. 27 touchdown, 7 picks. People can criticize him, but he's a big, strong athletic quarterback.

I would take Wentz. Jimmy Garapolo, you hesitate because of the injury, but he's 34 and 14, a Super Bowl and an NFC championship. So it depends on the kind of veteran quarterback. I mean, Case Keenham's a veteran quarterback. Yeah. But I do think, and I'll talk about this in about 10 minutes, I do think there are some concerns with what is happening. OBJ did not do Baker a favor. Not only did he go to Los Angeles and play, but he became an integral part of the offense within three games.

Immediately. Yeah. Well, let's talk about OBJ and the champion Rams because they had their, they celebrated Super Bowl 56 victory yesterday with the parade that ended at the L.A. Coliseum. It was the first LA championship parade post-COVID. Both Dodgers and Lakers were unable to celebrate with a parade for their fans. I wasn't able to be there, but from seeing all the video, it looked like an extremely fun time, amazing energy, including Matthew Stafford, who was enjoying a bottle of Don Julio, 1942 with a cigar.

And Tom Brady chimed in and tweeted, mix in a water, trust me. So you know he was watching. but another favorite part was, I don't know if you noticed, but everyone was wearing really fun t-shirts at this event. You had Kelly Stafford who wore a blazer that had, it's Matthew, not Matt. Stafford wore a shirt on stage of Cooper Cup as a kid that said Super Bowl MVP. Cup wore a Kobe Black Mamba jersey to honor the late Laker legend.

And then GM Les Sneed wore a shirt that said, F, them picks. They had a good time. They had a great time. It was fun to watch. Good for L.A. Yeah, it is. And it's an organization that came into this city from St. Louis.

And I will say this, they've really been, I think they fit the city. I think they're dynamic. I think they take big risks. I think they're fun. I think this is why USC hired Lincoln Riley. It's not just winning in Los Angeles. The city is distracted. All the Great Laker teams, I mean, if you think magic and Kobe and

Jack, they're entertaining. Yes. And I think the Rams have figured out. It's not just winning here, but they take big swings. They have big stars. And they're really an easy team to embrace. The culture's cool. Yeah.

No, I think they've, it's very rarely that you get, like expansion teams are obviously always popular. Yeah. But to move a franchise from another city and when I think of the L.A. Rams, their brand now to me, Alex, is so strong, so quickly. It is. I don't think of the St. Louis Rams. No.

I don't. It's just like disappeared into the ether. The Rams really quickly built this really dynamic star-filled culture. And it's a real thing really quickly. Oh, yeah. I'm born and raised in L.A., and I said this before the Super Bowl. I didn't have a strong NFL team that I was connected to growing up because we had the Lakers. And the Dodgers were the two biggest brands here.

And I said it. If they want to get L.A. fans, all you have to do is win. And they did it in the most incredible. incredible fashion. So I think they're going to have a strong following. I've been seeing a lot more Rams flags, Rams gear around L.A. So it's going to be fun. I think they did it. But let's move on to Kyler Murray, who appeared to be trying to send a message by scrubbing all references to the Cardinals from a social media. Whatever the message was clearly did not work. And it sounds like Murray knows it. According to John Gamdoro of Arizona Sports 987 and Phoenix, Murray regrets the drama

created by his social media activity. He said, I've heard talking to a bunch of different people that he definitely regrets that this all came out. This is generational. I don't really get it. It feels like a tempered tantrum. So when athletes do this, my first takeaway is, gosh, you got to grow up a little bit. I mean, come on.

Let's, it's like, I understand if you, you know, let's somebody was really vile. Yeah. Like blocking them on Twitter or something. Like I understand. Like some people are just like. bullies on Twitter, but to scrub all your employees, if I was mad at my boss, I'm not scrubbing them from my social. Like at some point, you have to be culpable as an athlete.

You're public. You got to be a grown up here. You made this into a very quickly into an S storm. And I just don't think it's the play. I really don't. It was just unnecessary drama that he created. I didn't know they had that strong a beef until he did that. Now the world knows.

You put the Cardinals on blast. And it backfired on him pretty quickly. Alex with the news. Well, that's the news. And thanks for stopping by. The Hurd Lie News. So I saw this story. You know when Zion Williamson came out with John Morant, I said I would draft Zion Williamson with the caveat with the caveat.

With the caveat, and I said this multiple times, I worry about his weight. People worried about his jump shot. I'm like, he'll figure the jump shot out. I worried about his weight. And I worried about the torque in his body because I'd seen him be hurt in college. It was a real thing. But I said, historically, if you give me a small guy and a big guy, I'll take the big. It doesn't have to be a center.

And when he broke into the league, let's be honest, he started breaking Wilk Chamberlain's scoring efficiency the first time he hit up on the floor. He was a magnificent player. There's a report now he's going to need his second surgery on a foot and weight's still a problem. And when you compare him, juxtapose him with John Morant, he looks like a bust. And it's interesting because I did say, when Zion came out, there was a problem. a lot of things I liked. Duke, the brand, the smile, the strength, the size, the speed, the

velocity, the energy with concerns. With John Morant, he wasn't even a one and done guy. It was a small school. He was super talented. That was indisputable. But here's, it's easy today. And this is what, listen, this is what social media is all about. Nobody's ever wrong on social media. Everybody's an expert. Every D-list actor is, you know, they're all geniuses. The reality is, if you go to the last titles in the NBA. A lot of bigs with those titles. Duncan's got four. Shack's got three or four.

Kobe without Shaq and Gassal was on a bad Laker team. So Gassal's got a couple. Dirk's got one. Steph's got a couple, but the best version of them had Kevin Durant. Steff's got one without him, two with him. LeBron's got four. He's not a guard. AD's got one with him.

Yonis now has one. They'll be favored to win a second. Biggs. That's what general managers like. Steph Curry's got one, but the best version of that team had the best shooting seven-footer of all time. And John Morant has a lot of Derek Rose and Westbrook and Steph Marbury and Iverson and John Wall to him. And none of those guys have a title. In fact, you know Chris Paul's been one of my favorite guards of all time. guards. He didn't get to the finals until year 16. So John Morant is the better pick right now. That's indisputable. And my guess is it's going to stay that way. But what I'm trying to explain

is why do they do that? Why do GMs like size? Because they always have. If you look at Philadelphia right now, one of the reasons they're a top five, they got Joe Lamb beat and whose favorite? Milwaukee. They got a big. And Miami's got Bam. And then Phoenix has DeAndre Aiton. In fact, one of the knocks on Golden State, and it's a knock from people I trust in the league is they're not big enough. They've got great guards, great forwards, great athleticism, twitchy athletes, good, I mean, Golden State's got everything. They don't have enough size. And so I get it.

Like I said, if you look at the European culture of Biggs, I said, Zion's going to be a 20-point-a-game guy by his, it's some 20 games into the NBA. And he was. He was a dominant player. But if you look at the history, there's very few instances of, you know, of the little guy. The media loves the middle guy. The media loves the little guy, right?

He's flashy. He's got the ball. He's the quarterback. He's fun. And John Morant's a wildly talented player. But is he more talented than Iverson? Or Derek Rose. I mean, do you remember what happened with Derek?

Derek Rose is the MVP of the league. He was the talk of the league for two years. Couldn't get to a finals. So this league historically, size is really, really important. And even Magic Johnson's the best point guard ever. He's six, eight and a half. Well, what about Isaiah Thomas? They were the bad boys.

They were a physical team with Lambert and Rick Mahorn. Joe Doom, even their guards were physical. So you can look at the Isaiah Thomas, say, well, they won a couple championships and he was the best player. He was, but it was a very physically imposing team. So little guys, point guards, six three and under guys, they don't lead you to championships. And so I understand, I was one of those. I think Zion's the pick.

but it always came with a caveat. Like the dude, I talked to a general manager about this years ago. And he said, he goes, I would take Zion knowing there's about a 30% chance he'll bust, knowing with John Morant, there's no percent chance he'll bust. But in this league, if you want to win titles, even Kobe Bryant needed bigs. Because in between Shaq and Gasol, Kobe was on bad, bad teams. Andrew Whitworth just retired. Well, let me say.

Andrew Whitworth just went to say. Super Bowl, many suspect he will retire. I'm not going to break that news. He'll join us next. Be sure to catch live editions of the herd weekdays in noon Eastern, 9 a.m. Pacific. Hey, it's Ben, host of The Fifth Hour with Ben Maller, along with my trusty sidekick, David Gascon, would mean a lot to have you join us on our weekly auditory journey. You're asking what in God's name is the fifth hour?

I'll tell you, it's a spinoff of the Ben Mather show, a cult hit overnight on FSR. why should you listen? Picture if you will a world when we chat with captains of industry in media, sports and more every week explore some amazing facts about human nature and more. Listen to the fifth hour with Ben Mather on the iHeart radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games.

Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Clever Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined.

And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger.

So, if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Hey, this is Robert from the Stuff to Blow Your Mind podcast. Joe and I are both lifelong Star Wars fan, so we're celebrating May the 4th with a brand new week of fun, thought-provoking Star Wars-related episodes. Join us as we tackle science and culture topics from a galaxy far, far away,

such as the biology of tauntons and wampas on the ice planet hot, or the practicality and corporate business sense of the Sith rule of two. Listen to stuff to blow your mind on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Do you remember when Diana Ross

double-tap Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do a little kill? Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam Jay. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick it here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it.

Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 is big to me, not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack on day, but just so you all know. I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack. So I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now. Thank you for finishing that sentence. I don't think there's a more important year for black people.

Really? Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. 16 years in the NFL, he's now a Super Bowl champ, Walter Payton Man of the Year, a four-time pro bowler, one sack in a hundred 106 snaps, one sack. And by the way, Cam Makers tangled up his feet, so it's not a real sack. Andrew Whitworth is joining us the Super Bowl champ.

You know, as I watched you and others, last year, Kansas City fell apart physically and got blown out in the Super Bowl. It can't be underscored. You guys fell apart. So you had a special teamer that had to play wide receiver. You'd already lost Robert Woods. OBJ got hurt. You were on a third tied end. was there any point in that game, Andrew, that you looked around in the second half and thought,

we're running out of people on offense? I'd be lying if I said there wasn't. There was a point there where you're sitting there going, man, if we can just stay right now, just everyone stay healthy. We got a chance to win this game because we really knew the way the defense was playing. This was going to be a one-drive situation. We're going to need one drive to go get the lead and let the defense go from there. And it was just a matter of can we keep some guys healthy enough to field

the skill people to play. Take me to the final drive. And kind of, I've seen some stuff that was mic, NFL films has released some stuff. The anxiety, the heat, the pressure. You had time. Time was not the issue. You'd been very good this year in fourth quarter setting. So again, you had something.

You had a precedent. You'd been good. But this is the Super Bowl. Take me to the final drive and take your time on this, what it felt like. you know it was amazing when we got in there and got the fourth and short and really the play call was something that we had talked about all week really for a third down or fourth down situation you felt really confident we were like man this is a good one we knew we had a chance we convert this it just kind of felt like once we got in a rhythm against them we got that first down we were able to move it and that was kind of the first half was and so once we picked up the first down on that one it was really like all right everybody just execute let's hit the open guy get a couple of of yards every play and just keep make this along just execute and drive where we know we can do that we know that's what we're able to do right now and so that that's really how the drive felt and you just felt like slowly but surely the momentum was building that it was going to be tough for us to stop them and

i'm anything you know obviously i play o-line but man the job that those guys did up front keeping matthew clean for that series uh was awesome i mean i couldn't have been more proud to be a leader of that group well you've had multiple quarterbacks in your career matt stafford had the best fourth quarter of any quarterback ever, 14 touchdowns, no picks. And there were a lot of big ones. He had to go up against that Tampa defense, the Cincinnati defense. The NFC had some really stout defenses. You've had Goff and Andy Dalton, and Andy Dalton was making pro bowls when you were there, and Jared Goff got to a Super Bowl on playoff games. How is Matt different in the huddle? You know, he just has a special demeanor about him, that it's one of those things

it no matter how a play goes, his really is positivity, his attitude about the next one, you know, is not affected at all. Good, bad, or indifferent. He's got a smile on his face. He loves competing. I mean, there's a couple drives in that last fourth quarter there that, like, you know, we're on that drive to try and win the Super Bowl that he kind of gets in the huddle. It's just like, man, I love you guys.

Man, I love you guys. Like, let's just keep working. And it was just cool, like, the demeanor he can have in those kind of moments to just really appreciate where he is and who he's in the huddle with. It just makes you just want to give everything you got to win and to play for this guy and give him the opportunity to get exactly what you think he deserves. And that's the recognition of being one of the best. You know, Aaron Donald, I've said this, the three greatest defensive players I've ever seen.

And I'm, you know, I'm in my 50s now. So I saw Lawrence Taylor, Reggie White, and Aaron Donald. And I think Ed Reed's really close. You occasionally have to block Aaron Donald. Now, you're a guy that is going to get Hall of Fame votes. I'd put you in. and Aaron Donald would already be in, right? Like, we know that.

Take me back to the first couple practices with Aaron and the first times that you did have to, and it doesn't happen a lot because he's on the interior. But you're six and a half, six, six and a half, about 300. Is that right, Andrew? Yeah, about 320, something like that. Okay. So first couple times you went up against him in a drill. What was it like?

You know, it's unbelievable really to me. I've obviously played against some really special players in my career, whether it be Dwight Franey and how quick he was and his ability to spin or James Harrison or Terrell Suggs and their power and athleticism. Then you look at the guys who are perfect tweeners of like Demarchus Ware and even John Abraham back in the day so explosive. And what's really rare about Aaron Donald is he really has the power of a guy like James Harrison and Terrell Suggs and then the ability to be explosive with his first step,

with his quick movements, like your face. a smaller, you know, Elvis Dumerville or Dwight Freeny or Von Miller, the reaction skills. It's, to me, it's really what separates him is that you can't just go one thing. You can't say, I'm going to stop his power because he'll explode by you before you can get a chance to touch him. And so you're always living in a world of trying to recover. And as a pass blocker, it's like, what am I recovering from? You know, his strength or his speed.

And so it just, you almost always feel like you're on your heels. And as an old lineman, that's the worst place you could ever have to live. Have you made up your mind on retirement yet? I haven't. I mean, obviously, I think it's a pretty strong chance that this is it. I mean, I don't know that I could ever draw a more dream scenario than playing my old franchise in the Super Bowl. And a lot of guys I respect so much over there, really neat for me, really, really unique opportunity. And I'm just so thankful to be where I was and on this football team.

and it's been really cool and what a special ride I've had over my career. When you, I said, it's very rare. Whenever there's an expansion team, they're instantly popular in a city, right? We all know that. But to move a franchise to a busy city like L.A., you can get lost. I mean, the Chargers, when they came from San Diego to L.A., they kind of got lost for a few years. They're just now kind of rehabbing it.

They got the quarterback. The Rams culture is so strong that even with USC, the Dodgers, the Lakers, the mountains, the beat. This is a distracted city. There's a lot to do. I feel like the Rams really fit Los Angeles. And when you got here, you know, in Cincinnati, you got the Reds, you got the Bengals. That's what you got.

Here, we got two of everything. How long did it take you with McVeigh to just sense, wow. Because when I look at Sean, I think of culture builder. That's, it's Shanahan. It's the schematics and offense. Belichick, it's the defense. Sean, it's building cultures. It's standing in front of men and creating a belief system.

How long did it take before you went, wow, this is, I've been, I've been, I've had a lot of coaches, this is different. I'll be honest with you. I had a conversation with him right when I agreed to sign that when I was talking about whether I'd agree to my contract in L.A., that he was everything that I ever wanted to see out of a coach and a culture and what was important to me in football. after my 11 years in Cincinnati. I knew quickly that, you know, I'm on record with a lot of friends with this. I said this guy was going to be unbelievably special after just a couple meetings with him. And you knew that it was going to be rare.

And me and him actually talked about this last night. We were visiting on the phone. And just about how many times in the off season we went and just sat somewhere, whether it be Nobu Malibu or wherever, and just spent 10 hours talking about culture and what it took to be a good football team and what it is to, inspire people to be their best when their best is required. And it's been just unbelievable these five years doing it together. And hopefully we'll have other opportunities to continue to do things together in this business

because it's been unbelievable for me to be with a guy like him, have a guy your best friend and your head coach at the same time. And I couldn't be more and all of what he's been able to accomplish. But I'd be lying if I said that when I met him, I didn't think he was going to do something special to begin with. Walter Payton, man of the year, your speech was compelling, riveting, and compassionate. We would not be surprised at all with that, obviously. And by the way, here's a moment from the parade yesterday we have on tape.

Here is Andrew Whitworth. I am not inferring that you had a beer, but everybody looked a little jolly. Here's Andrew yesterday. Five years ago, I was told I was a little too old. And I was told that maybe my time was done. And I tell you this, for every single person standing out there that's ever doubted anything you've ever done. Bet on yourself because five years later, I'm holding this trophy up and I'm 40 years old. Let's go. Don't let anybody's opinions of you ever become your reality. Bet on yourself.

World damn champions. That's great. Isn't that great? Well, I hope you stay here when you retire. We've got a minute left. Are you going to stay in California if you do retire? Oh, I'll be here. I'm going to be playing a lot of golf and I'll be around. So we'll see what happens. We'll see what happens in the future, man. I'm excited to live in L.A. Our family will be raising our kids here, and we'll be here for a long time. Andrew, again, congrats Walter Payton Man of the Year award.

You're such a treat for us, and congrats, man. Hey, I appreciate it so much, man. Andrew Whitworth, as good as they get, the Walter Payton Man of the Year's speech. Look it up online. It's fantastic. You would not be surprised. He's great with words, great with his feet, great teammate.

And, yeah, it's fun. Rams are fun. It's a really strong brand, and I think McVeigh gets a ton of credit for that. It's so fun. Yeah, very collaborative, not authoritative, kind of let's all work together here. Players, it really helps in the free agent market. You can talk, Von Miller, I thought would be a Bronco for life. It is easy to talk people into stuff if you want to join this kind of environment.

All right. Peter King's around the corner. Some thoughts on the Browns and Baker Mayfield. Interesting story out today. Hour one is down. Alex and I return hour two next. and now, Lance the herd. Another podcast from some SNL, late-night comedy guy, not quite.

Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and Friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple

podcasts, or wherever you. you get your podcasts. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year.

Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Hey, what's good, y'all? You're listening to Learn the Hardway with your favorite therapist and host, Keer Games. This space is about black men's experiences,

having honest conversations that it's really not safe to have anywhere, but you're having them with a licensed professional who knows what he's doing. How many men carry a suit or armor? It signals to the world that you not to be played with. And just because you have the capability that does not mean that you need to. Listen to learn the hard way on the AHA radio app,

Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcast. Hey, this is Robert from the Stuff to Blow Your Mind podcast. Joe and I are both lifelong Star Wars fan, so we're celebrating May the 4th with a brand new week of fun, thought-provoking Star Wars-related episodes. Join us as we tackle science and culture topics from a galaxy far, far away, such as the biology of tauntons and wampas on the ice planet hot,

or the practicality and corporate business sense of the Sith Rule of Two. Listen to Stuff to Blow Your Mind on the IHeart Radio, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.