The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Hour 1 - LeUnhappy?

Episode Date: July 14, 2025

Jason McIntyre, in for Colin Cowherd, talks about Lakers SF LeBron James reportedly being unhappy with the team, where the recently released Top 10 QB rankings made one major mistake, thoughts on Cooper Flagg's Summer League performance, and more! Guest: Geoff SchwartzSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Hello and welcome. It is a beautiful Monday morning from Los Angeles, and I'm not Colin Coward. I'm Jason McIntyre in for Colin. He was supposed to be back today, but I don't know. You know, something's going all with Cowherd. No, just kidding. He had some travel issues.

I'm sure he will tell you all about it tomorrow. Nobody loves an airport like Colin Cowherd. He'll have many stories when he is back. But you got me for one more day. And honestly, I think Cowherd blew off today because my Cooper flag take last week was so good, and it was reinforced over the weekend, but they had to have me back to talk about it.

And fortunately, we got a great show today. Folks, I'm flying solo. Yes, that's it. It's just me. You got me for three hours. I mean, come on, you know I love to talk. I can handle this. No big deal.

And we have some great guests coming up. My main man, Chris Bussard, coming on in the final hour. We used to do his podcast together, and I would just beat him up on NBA topics because I'm very intelligent when it comes to basketball and football. And Broussard's going to join us in the final hour.

We got Jeff Schwartz stopping by Matt Hasselbeck. It's going to be a great show. And we're going to do a lot of NFL with obviously camps opening up for rookies this week. We do want to start with the NBA because one thing happened over the weekend, which you'll get to momentarily. But do you guys remember last month where all the reporters who cover the NBA kept saying, strap in. There's a crazy NBA summer ahead. You never know what's going to happen.

stars could be on the move. There was so much hype. It reminded me as a young kid. There was this Kevin Costner movie coming out in the 90s called Waterworld. And it was the most expensive film ever. This thing was hyped to no end. It comes out and it was an absolute flop, just a bomb. It did okay box office numbers.

But it was basically considered a disaster. And that's NBA free agency. Folks, we're two weeks in and there's one story. And that's LeBron James. who is shockingly very hurt. And to quote Ron Burgundy, he's offended and he's hurt. And LeBron was at NBA Summer League over the weekend to check out his son, Ronnie James.

As you can expect, an NBA reporter went up to him and said, Hey, LeBron, would you care to talk about the upcoming Lakers season? LeBron said, I got nothing to talk about. And he shut it down. LeBron, the man of breadcrumbs on social media. giving the media nothing. Well, you know, you could look at it this way in what's been a disastrous NBA free agency for the league.

I mean, listen, when Miles Turner is your big move, ain't a damn thing happened. LeBron has been carrying us. He's giving us content for weeks because he's offended and hurt that the Lakers did not offer him a new deal. So LeBron decided I'm going to go ahead and opt in and I'm going to get my $52 million.

And then for two weeks, He is really not happy that the Lakers are catering to Luca and they're not involving LeBron in future plans. And that obviously has LeBron upset. Now, it's been a minute since we've talked to Yovon Buha, who was on the show last week to tell us just why LeBron's starting to get upset at the franchise. This is the first time you could say in LeBron's career, he hasn't been the sole focus or the primary focus of his franchise that he's been. on, like even with AD, it was always LeBron trying to pass the baton to AD. Luca just came in and got the baton, right? Like, I get it.

He's a guy who's about to enter his prime. He's already led a team to the finals. But LeBron's just, I think the big thing is like he sees the finish line, whether it's another year, two years, and he wants to win that fifth ring. And it doesn't feel like the Lakers are going all in on this year's roster. He's kind of sort of right, Yovan, of course, here on the show last week. But let's just start with some of the facts, okay? Here are the facts.

LeBron showed up to the Lakers, and they were in the wilderness lost. You can attribute that if you want to the end of the Kobe era, that's fine. But bottom line is they had the worst five-year run in franchise history. LeBron saved the Lakers, period. That's a fact. That's an inarguable fact. Gets them to be contenders, gets them Anthony Davis. They win a championship in 2020.

Okay, they get back to the conference finals. People forget that against Denver. And then LeBron gets to handpick his coach. Well, give me my mind. guy, JJ Reddick for my podcast. Okay, LeBron, check. Can you draft my son? Sure, check. LeBron. The Lakers cater to LeBron because LeBron saved them. All understandable and it makes total sense. Where things go awry was when Luca Donchich all of a sudden hits the market out of nowhere and the Mavats traded to the Lakers and then the calculus changed. The Lakers move away from LeBron and to Luca.

But in an absence of actual information here in the last two weeks, it's all breadcrumbs from LeBron on social media. Look, he's wearing a hat that says welcome home. While he's playing golf in Ohio, he wants to be a calf. Again, when there's an absence of information, come the conspiracy theories, come the ideas and everybody's floating stuff. And now over the weekend, we see four teams are monitoring the LeBron situation. Who are they?

Well, unconfirmed reports from various reporters. It's the Dallas Mavericks. Come on, give me a break. That's zero shot of the mass. happening. The LA Clippers, yeah, that's what LeBron wants to do. Go across town to the paper clips to play with Hardin and Kauai. That's comical. The Cleveland Cavaliers. Now, that was interesting, but you listen to any salary cap guy in the NBA, and there's no chance of it happening. The calves are already deep into the second apron, and I don't want to bore you with luxury tax

and all these repeater tax. The calves could not make LeBron happen. It's borderline impossible. not Tom Cruise Mission Impossible. There's a nod to Cowherd, but just it can't happen. And then the last one is the Golden State Warriors, which could only happen if it was Jimmy Butler for LeBron. And why are the Lakers doing that? So again, I understand LeBron's pouting. He has a right to be a little ticked off, totally understandable. But at the same time, he's got to be self-aware and be like, oh, I'm 40.

Luca is, you know, in his prime mid-20s. Of course they want to build around him. him. LeBron, listen, you guys don't I'm a LeBron guy? And I had a fun stat. Somebody hit me with, I totally forgot over the weekend. LeBron has been the MVP of the finals on three different teams. That's an unbelievable accomplishment.

Look in American sports. It's difficult to find guys who have been the championship game or series MVP for two teams. LeBron's done for three. That's another reason why he's the goat, okay? Anywhere he goes, he wins. And I totally get that, and I get what he's done. But it's about Luca now. And I think LeBron's just got to understand that because sadly, Bron, you're not going anywhere.

Now I want to pivot to the NFL because, listen, as I said at the outset of the show, mid-July means rookies show up in training camps, right? And then the week after come the veterans. And in that little in-between, we've got two or three days here. We get like the MLB All-Star break and we get a bunch of lists in the NFL. So ESPN had an interesting list of the top 10 quarterbacks heading into 2025. And just so I get it accurate here, it's according to executives, coaches, and scouts. And you see it here on the screen.

If you're watching on FS1, radio audience, I'm going to tease you for a little bit. But these are the top 10 quarterbacks, according to executives, who are executives around the league, guys? Give that a thought for a second. Coaches and scouts. Now, the top four are obvious every year, right? In whatever order you want, Burrow, Mahomes, Lamar, Josh Allen. Okay, executives love Patrick Mahomes. Oh, the guy's amazing.

After that, it gets difficult. Five through 10 is a big question mark. And I'm pretty certain if, and we'll never get this. But if we got the ages of the executive coaches and scouts, I think we could draw a line between what we're seeing here on the screen and what the actual rankings are. I don't have any disagreement with the top four, and nobody should. The order we can quibble over.

But the reality is, five through ten is extremely difficult. And I cannot believe that Jalen Hertz was once again utterly disrespected by executive coaches and scouts. Jalen Hertz has been to two Super Bowls. He went toe to toe with Mahomes in one of them and was nearly the MVP, but they lost. then he smashed Mahomes this past February in the Super Bowl and with the MVP. And Jalen Hertz is only ninth, the ninth best quarterback in the NFL? Well, there is another interesting thing that came up in the meeting this morning.

And that was if you look at that list of the top 10 guys, Jalen Hertz is the only non-first round quarterback. First impressions matter. Oh, were you a first round pick? Well, I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt over and over. over and over again. I keep hearing that, oh, well, Jaylen Hertz has a stacked deck, Jay. Does he really?

I was unaware of that. I was unaware that he had a different offensive coordinator every season he's been in the NFL. For all this Jared Goff love, and Jared Goff's on the list, he's good, he would make my top 12. Jared Goff came into the league, got Jeff Fisher, was totally terrible, and then gets gifted Sean McVeigh, one of the sharpest offensive minds of this generation. And then he goes to Ben Johnson, one of the most coveted offensive coordinators in the last 10 years. And Jared Goff is better than Jalen Hertz. Oh, Jared Goff was the number one overall pick.

That's right. First impressions matter. Now, we did have a spirited chat because I'm very bullish on Hertz. I have him unequivocally number five. These executive coaches and scouts have Jane Daniels at five, and that's fine. Jane Daniels was amazing last year. Let's see the numbers on Jalen Hertz from the pocket, because this is the big knock on Jalen Hertz.

He doesn't win from the pocket. Oh, really? Well, I have actual data that flies in the face of the idea that Hertz doesn't win from the pocket. He was second in completion percentage. And it's not a checkdown Charlie situation because, as you see here, he was third in yards per attempt, eight and a half. He was fifth in passer rating. 14 touchdowns from the pocket. We say, Jay, okay, he had one good year.

Well, I'll remind you, Jaden Daniels had one good year. It was the greatest rookie year ever. But oh, we've got three years of data from Jalen Hertz in the pocket. Guys, wouldn't you know it? He's been hella consistent. 72%, 71, 74. Passer rating, really, really good. Yards per attempt, no checkdown.

Now, 23 was a little bit of a pullback. Another offensive coordinator. That one didn't work out. That was, remember, they elevated a quarterback coach. I don't even know if that guy's still in the league. And Jalen Hertz now is winning from the pocket for three. straight years. Folks, if you don't have him five, how on earth can you have guys like Jared Goff ahead of him? Well, here's the idea, because the idea of what a quarterback is has changed

dramatically over the last 30 or 40 years. These executives, remember, these are the same executives who wanted Lamar Jackson to pivot from quarterback to wide receiver. Yeah, that's a thing. That was a real thing. Look it up. Okay. These executives had a idea of what a quarterback was for 30 or 40 years. I need me a 6-3 statue-esque pocket passer. That's what they wanted. They wanted the Jeff Georges of the world. They wanted Drew Bledsoe. Guys, guys who were quarterbacks who are fantastic. But somewhere along the line, youth football coaches realized, I don't have a big pocket passer. Let me just put my best athlete at quarterback. And he's going to run around and make plays. He can win from the pocket, but he can also win

with his legs on third down. And that became then a thing from not just youth football to college football. And then it kind of sorted to translate into the pros with guys like Mike Vic and Cam Newton, who were essentially the first iteration of running quarterback. Steve Young was mobile. I wouldn't call him a runner. Great running quarterback, but more mobile. He won from the pocket first.

So Vic and Cam Newton were kind of inconsistent from the pocket. But now the next generation of guys, Jaden Daniels. Jalen Hertz. These are quarterbacks. Listen, let's be real. Lamar Jackson. These are quarterbacks Josh Allen, who was a runner. Remember, he was like barely 60% completion from the pocket. In college, he's now turned into he can be to his legs and his arm.

So the idea of a quarterback has totally changed. And I think a lot of these evaluators just don't get it. Yes, I love Matthew Stafford. He's awesome. If it's third and seven, he's not a threat to scramble for that first down. And just the looks of quarterbacks now is just changing things around the league. And wouldn't you know it, Jalen Hertz is right there at the forefront with Lamar Jackson.

He just has the postseason success. So again, I'm not, you know, totally disagreeing with these executive scoches and coaches, coaches and scouts. But the reality is they don't even have Brock Purdy on this list. He didn't make the top 10. So, as you can expect, I'll do my top 10 later in the show. We're going to expand it because remember last week we were drinking six packs here on the show. Today we're expanding it from a sixer to a 12-packed. So, yeah, a lot of these pocket guys still make it.

But I lean toward the athlete who's going to get me the scramble on third and seven, who's multi-dimensional. By the way, Burrough, Mahones, Alan Lamar, all multi-dimensional quarterbacks can beat you from the pocket and scrambling. All right, we do really have a phenomenal. show lined up. I know you're excited about three hours of J-Mac. Colin Coward may call me during the show. He did text me right before the show with a airport update. I won't bore you with that. But it's going to be a great one today. And coming up next here on the herd, I'll tell you why the MADS shut down Cooper Flag after a 31 point explosion in game two. That's next year on the herd.

Be sure to catch live editions of the herd weekdays at noon Eastern 9 a.m. Pacific on Fox Sports. Sports Radio, FS1, and the IHeart Radio app. Hey, it's me, Rob Parker. Check out my weekly MLB podcast Inside the Parker for 22 minutes of pipe and hot baseball talk featuring the biggest names and newsmakers in the sport. Whether you believe in analytics or the I-Test, we've got all the bases covered. New episodes drop every Thursday, so do yourself a favor and listen to Inside the Parker with Rob Parker on the IHartRadio app

or wherever you get your podcast. Hey, it's us, the Jonas Brothers, and guess what? We have some big news. What's the news, huge news? We created our own podcast called, Hey Jonas.

We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to it. We're the first people to do podcasts. Pretty, yeah, pretty wide range of podcasts. We're starting a trend. But this one's extra special. So how do we actually come up with a name,

Hey Jonas, guys? I honestly don't remember. I think it was on. a call about what we should call it. Well, we were thinking I'm originally calling it one of the early names of our band before Jonas Brothers. This is how you guys remember it going down? Yes.

I have a very different memory of this. We were talking about a thing, a bit for the podcast, where people could call in and say, hey, Jonas. And then I wrote down on my little notepad, Hey Jonas, and offered it up as a potential title for the podcast. But thanks for remembering that, guys. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app. Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL, late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel help an a cappella band with their between songs banter.

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Welcome to my new podcast, learn the hardweight with me. me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kear Games. And in recognition of Mental Health Awareness Month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking, Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing.

And we're still chasing it. And we don't know when we've done enough. Because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross, because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth, or are you a good person because you're afraid?

Because that's two different intentions, bro. Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person. Join me, Kear Gaines, as we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, Learn the Hardway.

Open your free, IHeartRadio app. Search Learn the Hardway and listen now. Welcome back. We got Jeff Schwartz, Fox Sports NFL analyst, coming up in about 10 minutes. And yes, I did watch a little Caitlin Clark action from yesterday. I have a good nickname for her. It's not a slight. Okay, she's struggling.

Listen, we can be honest with you. Okay. I have a nickname. Everybody in the morning meeting laughed. People thought it was a little harsh. We'll unveil that in about 25 minutes. I want to talk quickly about Cooper Flagg. Okay.

He had his debut in the Summer League Thursday night. As the kids like to say, he was mid. I think he was five for 21 shooting. A lot of questions. I don't know. No three point shot. It was like, guys, pump the brakes. I want a passion plea Friday.

Please just take a deep breath. He's going to be fine. Cooper Fly comes out in his second game Saturday and absolutely cooks San Antonio. Had 31 points completely dominant. Oh, look, he gets it. it clicked for the 18-year-old in game two. Just a flurry of dunks.

He's awesome. And I think Coward says this sometimes. You kind of know it when you see it after like five minutes, whether it's sports, TV, whatever. Last week I started this new show on Apple TV called The Studio. I'm not sure if any of you guys are familiar with it. I like Seth Rogen. I'm a huge Seth Rogen guy.

I think all of his movies and shows are hilarious. So I check it out. And within the first 20 minutes, I'm texting people. You've got to watch this show. It's a little industry related, but it is abrasive and dirty. A lot of like inappropriate jokes. But that's in my wheelhouse. Like, you know, if this show wherever is streaming only, you would let the expletives fly. Shout out to Cosmo Kramer. But that show like instantly, I knew it was great. There's this show on Paramount Lioness. I check that out. Holy cow, it's awesome. Again, within 15 minutes, you're just, texting your buddies. You got to see this show. If you don't have Paramount, get the free trial, blah, blah, blah. Cooper Flag is the same way. You could see it last year at Duke. He was an 18-year-old freshman. I mean, he's 17 at the very beginning of the season. He's 18 and he's just leading Duke in every category. Every category. I said, steals, blocked, you name it. I mean, we've seen this before, guys. One Benyama last year struggled in his first summer league game. I think he was like two for 13. Oh, he can't shoot. He's not physical enough.

Well, Minyama game two. Dominant, shutting him down. We don't need to see anymore. Do you remember Zion Williamson? First game of Summer League. I had to look this up. He only 11 points, but he had four dunks. He's just dunking everything. Zion was overpowering everybody. Well, I don't know. He doesn't really have a shot. He's a little chubby. Zion as a rookie average 22. If you could only stay healthy, we're looking at an all-time great in Zion. He can't stay healthy. and then he got sidetracked with some stuff in New Orleans. Cooper Flagg showing none of the signs of that.

Okay, 31 points in game two against the Spurs. Just absolutely awesome. Here's what Cooper Flagg said after his big game against San Antonio. I think, you know, it's a new environment, new setting. You know, they want to see me be aggressive at that type of stuff. So I was trying my best to just be aggressive and assert myself early. Get to the line. I think I did that a lot better today.

of just getting to the line getting fouled. That helped me to get comfortable. I got to the line a little bit better today. So I missed a bunch of fritos. You know, I know my mom probably wasn't very happy with that. Cooper Flagg, shout out to his mom. Now, listen, Coward likes to say that Cooper Flagg could be a more aggressive Jason Tatum.

And I didn't love that initially because I think he's a much better defender than Tatum. But watching Cooper Flagg Cook, it was a... not a bad comparison, the aggressive Jason Tatum. I'll stick with my Kevin Garnett for now. Cooper Flag is more advanced than KG offensively was at 18. That's undeniable. You can't argue with that. Obviously, KG won an MVP and a championship. I think Cooper Fly can do both. I will say, now I'm out here in L.A. I know this guy's royalty in Los Angeles. I was a huge fan watching him, but there's a guy named Baron Davis, awesome point guard, legendary player out here. just spectacular at UCLA.

He's one of the first to push this. Well, you know, Cooper Flagg kind of reminds me of Andre Kirillenko. I was a little embarrassed for Barron when he said that. The idea is Andre Carolinko did everything great. He was spectacular at nothing. But he was awesome. I don't believe you ever made an All-Star game. Barron, you got to take that take back.

Like, just apologize. You screwed up. Andre Kirillico was not getting shut down two games in the summer league because he went off for 31. Okay? And all I kept hearing about this Spurs guy, I'm facing on his name out of Arizona, who they drafted, who's a really good defender. And he did well against Cooper Flagg on like an early possession. And everybody posted on their Instagram, look at this guy shutting down Cooper Flag.

You know, Cooper Flag ended up going postal against this guy and everyone else. So I'm sorry, boom-dizzle, but the Andre Carolinko comp is terrible. terrible. Cooper flag is going to be a superstar in the NBA. This is going to happen probably sooner than later. Get with the program. Everyone. All right. Let's go to Jeff Schwartz, NFL analyst here at Fox. He has a podcast. He's wearing a nice Duke blue shirt. Did you hit, did you play 18 this morning, Jeff? I did not. I was doing something else that there were a nice polo shirts. I just wore for you as well. I'm hoping to get some some summer league wagers from you. today, but I guess we do that another time.

Yeah, I'm holding off on the Summer League gambling. I know, I see you on social. Are you doing WNBA betting? Yeah, mostly props. I mean, look, Caitlin Clark assists every game. I mean, she gets a lot of assists. She might not be shooting

very well right now, but she's passing the ball around her teammates, and sometimes they don't make the layups, Jason, but she gets a lot of assists. So I will rock. I just, I mostly do zigzag stuff, right, where a good player has a bad game. The next game they typically play better. It's not rocket science. I tend to make those type of wagers. Yeah, it is weird just to go. I'll talk about Clark a little more later,

but I'm curious your thoughts. So she struggled before the injury. She comes back from the injury. She's still kind of struggling, but the fever are winning. Now, aside from gambling, I think the fever are still going to be live in the playoffs with a healthy Clark to maybe, maybe contend for the championship. I know their record doesn't show it, but you've watched a lot of WNBA. I mean, do you think there are contenders with Clark? I think they have to be because their offense is sort of figuring out, right? It takes some time. They have a lot of new pieces, right? Howard's new, Cunningham's new. Clark's been out of the lineup, but they're trying to figure things out. Ari McDonald's been in the lineup now. We're trying to figure things out. Clark gets healthier.

I'd imagine they start playing better offensively. She will start playing better offensively as well. But she obviously does a lot for the game. Assists, she'd five steals. That's just she opens things up. When they are on, they score a ton of points. Now defensively, there's some questions. I feel like they did big the links already without her. They beat the Liberty with Kaelin Clark. They played Liberty. I think again this weekend. So they're alive. Remember last year, the second half of the season after the Olympic break, they were much better. I feel like they're starting to hit their stride a little bit now as we get to the break. I would expect them to play well in the postseason. Wow. I got to give you a shout out. Jeff Clark is dropping Indiana

fever bench players. And he's talking about the upcoming schedule. My man, impressive. Let's go to the NFL. I do want to ask you about college later or something. But I don't know. Listen, it's mid-July. People are putting out lists. I see this list of the top 10 quarterbacks in the league from executive scouts and coaches. Jeff, the Jalen Hertz disrespect. The MVP of the Super Bowl checking in ninth below Jared Goff, Justin Herbert. I love Justin Herbert. He doesn't have a playoff win yet. Matt Stafford is kind of cement shoes in the pocket. Shout out Stafford.

Jayon Daniels one year. Why do you think people are just out? out on her too. By the way, is the only second round pick of these top nine. I'm not sure they're out on him. I think they don't look at one game as a reason why to rank a player in a certain spot, right? I mean, this is the best quarterback for an entire season or really where they are in their careers. To me, one through six is not really debatable with them and hurts. And look, Jay and Daniels had one good season. We get that. But go watch him play as a passer of the football. He's a better passer of the football that Jalen Hurts. I think there's no question about that.

Now, of course, he didn't do it in a Super Bowl like Hertz has, which did happen. He played great. But he actually, in both Super Bowls, Hertz has played really well. And that should count for something. I do think that does count for Justin Herbert, who has not played well in the postseason. Hertz has been better than him. I would put, you know, probably Hertz at seven. Stafford's still really good.

Like, I think we forget that because he doesn't move as well as other quarterbacks do. And he plays in L.A. and pro football is not as important there. But they were very close to winning that game in the, snow in Philly. A couple turnovers doomed them there. I think Hertz is properly ranked. I think if you were drafting quarterbacks, this is about where you drafted. You would have Hertz, I think, I had a stafford because of age there. But to me, one game, right? One two-bole. He played great in that game, not saying anything away from him. Doesn't really change, I think, where he needs to be ranked according to the top six. Now, again, he should be ahead of golf.

That team is really silly to me. And Herbert, I love Justin Herbert, but he has not shown the ability in those bigger games in the postseason to play as well as Hertz. I think to me, 1 through 6 is where they should be. You might argue, okay, should Lamar be 3, should Burrow be 4, sure, one and two feel very solid of where they are. So I have no problem with 1 through 6. I think 7 should be hurts.

Okay, so this is a good talking point for NFL fans because when you say like there's no debate, like Jaden Daniels is a better thrower of the football, I think that was the phrase you used. And that's a phrase in a lot of these articles. How do you quantify that? Because, I mean, if you're just looking at how, the ball comes off their hand, you know, over 500 attempts, like, I guess you could break it down

that way? Do you do yards per attempt, which is, you know, saying that someone's a check down or go deep down the field? Is it completion percentage? That could be skewed toward what the offense is doing, quarterback rating. Like, how do you judge thrower of the football? Yeah, I judge the really tough throws. I think a lot of guys can make the easy throw, right? It's the tough throws, right? It throws on the move, throws on third down, throws the pressure in your face, throws in big moments. I mean, go look. the throws Daniel made throughout the season, and you'll see, I think, in more opportunities, the offense was put on his shoulders, and he made those throws. Now, it hurts offense, to hurt the

defense, Jay Matt, he doesn't have to do as much, right? Because they run the football so well, they close out games with the offensive line and the run game and often with his legs. But I think Daniels throws the ball better than hurts. In bigger moments, in sort of the third down situation, sort of these big tough throws, to me, it's Daniels ahead of them, which to me is still number one in quarterback play. I look, mobility is great. Being able to run the football is great. It's good for third down in the red zone, those scrimmary moments. But to me, the way I rank quarterbacks is what you do in the pocket first. That's the hardest part of the job, right? It's third and eight. How do you react in the pocket? Can you make those big time throws? I think games are a little bit more of that

than hurts does. Interesting. There's a lot. That's one of the things with quarterbacks. There's a lot like we got to look up tight window throws and who's third down completion. But there's so much that goes into it. But let me drill down on Stafford for a second. You know, the modern quarterback, if you look at everybody's top four is Burrow, who can scramble, run awesome. Patrick Mahomes running despite the dad bod. Lamar needs no introduction.

Josh Allen's running over defensive backs. Stafford doesn't add that element. But he was the number one overall pick. He has one of like the top five arms in the league. He's making no look throws in the Super Bowl. Like how are we supposed to compare Stafford to Hertz? because if I said, Jeff, this season, who would you rather have Stafford or Hertz? Wouldn't you take Hertz because he gives you such a next dimension with the running?

If it was like if it was a fourth quarter to win a game and of course, look, let's just say it's a normal offense. You don't get the Eagles offensive line. You don't get the run game. Just like an average NFL offense, right? Fourth quarter of a game. Do you want Stafford or you want her throwing the football? Who would you want throwing the football? Well, for the full, it's similar to the Georgia.

Jordan LeBron discussion. I would take LeBron for a full game for the full season. But for the fourth quarter, yes, Stafford's clutch, Michael Jordan's clutch. And I think that matters when it comes to some of these GMs, right? Like, again, most of these quarterbacks, right, one through seven, one through 10 even, can do the simple things well. They wouldn't be a top 10 quarterback if they couldn't make the simple throws. So to me, I elevate in certain situations, right? How do you do in this situation?

How do you do in this situation? I think Matt Stafford, if I ask him again for the situation I put, and that's, again, where I think you're judging these quarterbacks in very, on very, like, nuanced situations. To me, I'd have Stafford just ahead of Hertz. I think it's not that much ahead of Hertz. Like, I think this season through week eight, hurts might be better than Stafford. I'll move him up there.

But for me, right now, the situation still matters. I think Stafford is better in that spot. Again, it's not a big difference between one and six to me. Hertz can surely be in that conversation, but to me he's just seven. One guy, well, a couple guys down on the list. Number one, Dak Prescott, the highest paid quarterback in the NFL, who I believe two years ago was the runner up for MVP, is now not even top 10.

And I think they did like just missed, and it was C.J. Stroud and Jordan Love. No Dak Prescott in the top 12. I'm curious, your thoughts on Dak, because again, two years ago, he was runner up to MVP. Well, he didn't play much last year, right? I mean, that plays a role of it. When you don't play as much, you're not in that discussion. Look, I think, too, like, at best, what is Dak Prescott?

10 on a list? Nine on a list. And so you don't play, you're going to drop down. Now, can you make that back up this season? Absolutely with more play time. But again, you look at sort of things I look at in those moments. He didn't play last year. So you can't give him credit for those things.

I think he's about where he should be. But, okay, I think at best, he's about 10 in the NFL. So him not playing this season, excuse me, last season, not many, I think only games last year. season. It's about where he can be. Can he get back up in the top 10? Absolutely. Look, you can certainly see a list like this where golf pulls back in a given year. Baker Mayfield, I think is what he is right now, but he can pull back a little bit. And then just that kind of pop up. I think Dak is no better than about nine to 10 in the best season he can have in the NFL. Hmm, interesting. So again,

I like this guy more than the market does. But Brock Purdy, he didn't have a great year, but the whole team was banged up. It felt like a transition year. Again, I'm not judging a guy on one year, which is why I have a problem with Daniels at five. But if you take Purdy's career, he's been freaking good. How does he not crack the top 10? Now, again, salary does not factor in here. We're not saying DAC makes, you know, 60 mil. What's his value compared to Daniels? That's obvious. But salary removed, just quarterback play. Are you a Purdy believer or no? I do think that draft slot bias matters here, right? Because he's the seventh round pick.

I was having a thrott pick. So maybe I'm defending him a little bit here. Are you telling me that, like, Brock Purdy couldn't be Jared Gough with the lines' offense? He totally can, right? But he gets the benefit of playing with a great offensive line and golf does and all the weapons. Last year, everyone was hurt for the Niners. The offensive line was hurt. It was beat up.

The offense is not as good as Detroit is. And he still did the best he could, given the situation. And so I think he probably in a given year, with everyone back healthy, is going to be better than where he's ranked right now. Do I think he has the elite traits of the top six guys or seven guys? No. So he's probably never going to be that high. James again, traits matter, right? The eye test matters in these rankings.

But put it all together, to me, you could have the same season golf has in Detroit if you just insert Brock Purdy into that lineup. Totally agree. Let me ask about Baker Mayfield, who's an interesting quarterback because he flopped badly in his first few years, right? But he was number one overall pick. Everybody loved him. And then he fell out of favor. And now a couple good years in Tampa and Baker Mayfield, number 10 on the list.

Now, it's a weird thing. It seems like these top picks, they get multiple bites at the apple. If you're Brock Purdy and you have one year, bye, back. Bye. But Baker Mayfield, hey, man, he was a number one pick. He's got the traits, as you said, and he checks in at 10 on the list. Your thoughts? Yeah, look,

think we love the Baker story. And he played well last year, though, Jay Beck. He completed nearly 72% of pass. I had 4,500 yards last season, like a legitimately great season passing the football. And that, you know, he has weapons around him. Obviously, the offense line there is good, but a little injury right now with worse.

And he's just played well. He's a good example of two things as you mentioned, right? One is that draft slot bias, I mentioned already. If you're the first book overall, you get more chances than anyone else. And he's had those chances. Now, when he's had the chances, though, he's cashed in, right, that Rams Thursday night football game.

He cashed in, right? He cashed in in this situation, getting an opportunity in, in, in Tampa. That's certainly all part of it. But he's played well in the situation. Situation matters, right? It matters. Does the offense fit to you?

Do you have an offensive line? Do you have wide receivers? And then do you take advantage of the situation? So I get Baker credit for battling through a part of his career that wasn't great. And I've been a skeptic of him at times as well. I think he realized, my, my, my, my thing about him is, the NFL does a great job with humbling you, right?

It's a great league for that. I think he got a little bit too big. He was doing those commercials when it wasn't time to do commercials yet. He was feeling himself a little bit too much and the NFL humbled him. He humbled himself and he's talked about that as maturing as a player as a person.

He's sort of hitting his stride now. And so I'm happy for Baker. I think it's about right. I think the max you get from Baker-Maidfield is about 10. And again, in a given year, maybe it's Love 10 or DAC 10 somewhere around there. But I think GMs appreciate how well he's played given the situation he's in now and his toughness.

I think when you see him truck guys for first downs and whatnot, people remember those type of plays. Yeah, listen, Baker's been tremendous the last two years. Let me ask, we hear a lot about, well, Jalen Hertz has a stacked deck, and Jared Goff had Ben Johnson. Let's not forget. Baker Mayfield has had arguably the best wide receiver duo

in the lead for the last two years. Evans and Godwin, Evans is a Hall of Fame lock, and Godwin is elite. I mean, I don't know if they're the best wide receiver duo. They're not better than Higgins and Chase. but they're certainly top four at worst. It's like, hey, you know, I don't even remember who the quarterback was before Baker, but I'm fairly certain they got to the playoffs, you know, with that duo at wide receiver.

Like, is he getting more of a leash, say, than Kyler Murray? Well, look, absolutely. And I think you do have to wait how you judge a quarterback based on what they have around him. But again, the production is there, right? I mean, 4500 yards is 4, 500 yards, whether you have great guys or not great guys. I mean, it's there. Like, so to me, the standard is this, right? Like, do you have a good roster?

Do you play good? And the answer is yes, right? He's played good to good roster. If you have a good roster and play poorly, that's a knock on you. Now, of course, there's guys that have poor rosters to elevate those rosters around them. So to me, Baker's doing what he has to do, right? He's playing well with the pieces around him that are good. If he didn't, J. Mack, it would be a problem, correct?

So I think that's a point. And I think, too, Baker feels like a player, maybe feel is not the right word to use here, that does elevate people around him, right, where he's not just along for the ride. He makes plays that make everyone better. And then that's a part of the evaluation here, right? Do you make everyone better around you? I think Baker's one of those guys that when I watch him play,

everyone around him is better because of the play that he's providing them. Yeah. All right, great stuff, Jeff Schwarz. Let me quickly get one more short one in. We got a minute. But college football, a lot of talk about this salary cap. As a guy who just missed the NIL era, Jeff. Let me just quickly ask.

Is this kind of silly, this union talk? It's been an interesting summer to say the least. A union will never happen as someone who's part of an NFLPA. It's never too many players to make a college union. To me, I would just let them make whatever they need to make. Like it's fair market, free market, just these guys are making money, let it make money. It has even out the playing field over all the sports. Look at the parody we have in a given year all over the sports now,

because teams are able to pay guys and keep guys as well and transfer portal or whatnot. So to me, it's fine the way it is. It needs some refining, absolutely. It needs maybe some more rules and some more eyeballs to it. Yes, but salary cap is never happening. It's just too many moving parts. It will never happen, Jason. All right, good stuff.

Jeff Schwartz. I'm in full agreement. Obviously, catch him on the Bear Betts podcast, Fox Sports NFL analysts. Have a great summer, Jeff. Thank you, but take care. All right. Coming up next, listen, I, I tease the Caitlin Clark nickname.

Some people are going to laugh. Some Clark fans are going to be outraged, but we'll talk about that next here on the herd. Be sure to catch live editions of the herd. Weekdays in noon Eastern, 9 a.m. Pacific. Hey, it's us, the Jonas brothers. And guess what? We have some big news.

What's the news, new? Huge news. We created our own podcast called, Hey, Jonas. We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to it. We're the first people to do podcasts.

Pretty, yeah, pretty wide range of podcasts throughout there. but this one's extra special. So how do we actually come up with a name Hey Jonas, guys? I honestly don't remember. I think it was on a call about what we should call it. Well, we were thinking I'm originally calling it one of the early names of our band

before Jonas Brothers. This is how you guys remember it going down? Yes. I have a very different memory of this. We were talking about a thing, a bit for the podcast, where people could call in and say, Hey Jonas.

And then I wrote down on my little notepad Hey Jonas and offered it up as a potential title for the podcast. But thanks for remembering that, guys. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL, late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier.

This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hardway with me, your host, and your favorite therapist,

Kear Games. And in recognition of mental health awareness month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking. Trip Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing. And we're still chasing it. And we don't know when we've done enough.

Because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross, because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth. Are you a good person because you're afraid? Because that's two different intentions, bro. Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person.

Join me, Keer Gaines, as we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, learn the hard way. Open your free, our heart radio app. Search, learn the hard way, and listen now. Last night, a blown call changed a game.

This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise. Breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines.

We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves. Their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context, and ask the questions everybody wants answered. Sports slice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them listen to Sports Slice on the iHeart radio app apple podcast or wherever you get your podcast and for more follow timbo slice of life 12 and the ticot podcast network on ticot tomorrow it's

the midsummer classic as judge show hey and baseball's biggest stars head to Atlanta for the MLB all-star game coverage begins at seven eastern four Pacific only on fox all right we'll wrap up the hour with a little basketball talk uh what's katelyn clark on sunday she's on the stroke bus and just because I like total complete authenticity, right? Let me get into Caitlin Clark with this. So you guys know I love to play basketball. I join some leagues out here in L.A. Well, I just tried to level up to the toughest league I've ever played in.

It's called the Mecca League out here. All former pros. I'm an end of the bench guy, but a GM who's helping recruit. We got a former NBA player on our team. And I'm not playing a lot. I don't want to. I can't hang with these guys. I get on the court.

They call out, oh, this barbecue. chicken. I'm going to roast this guy. And I get in yesterday, wide open three from the corner. That's my money shot. I hit the side of the backboard, guys. Not going to lie. It was tough. And I thought about Caitlin Clark during that moment, not really, but after the game. And Caitlin Clark is on the struggle bus. Right now, around the league, they're calling her Caitlin Clank because she cannot make any shots. Are you ready for this? Her last six games, three before the injury, she was one for 23 on threes. Next three games, five for 19.

So in her last six games, Caitlin Clark, who they're calling Caitlin Clank, is shooting 14% from deep. But here's the real story. They're winning despite Clark struggling. That is a huge indicator of success on the way. Caitlin Clark is too good to continue to struggle, guys. She makes her teammates better. She's an excellent defensive player. I had five steals yesterday.

13 assists. this is what the great ones do. The shot's not falling. You find other ways to contribute. Caitlin Clark ringing up the assists. She's got them playing at a pace. And I know you guys aren't into WNBA. That's fine.

They don't play like a WNBA team, which a lot of the league is still methodical, playing like 90s NBA. Let's dump it down to our big, see if we can manipulate the defense, and see if we can get something cooking. They don't play like that. This is Caitlin Clark whipping 80-foot passes

to streaking teammates for layups. And that pace is why they're going to be great. And I'm telling you, they are a contender. You can look at their record and scoff. I like to look ahead. Cowherd says one of my strengths is the ability to see around corners. I'm just telling you right now, the Indiana fever are going to be a major problem

because Clark's shots are eventually going to fall. And you'll stop calling her Caitlin Clank when the three start falling because she's too good of a player to continue to fail. So I'm a buyer in all Indiana fever stock. Caitlin Clark, she's going to get back in the MVP discussion. All right, coming up in the next hour, my eight division winners from the NFL this season. Two surprises coming up.

Hey, guys, it's us. The Jonas Brothers. I'm Joe. I'm Kevin. And I'm Nick. And guess what? We created our own podcast called, Hey, Jonas. We invented a podcast?

Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to us. We get to ask other people to do podcasts. We get to ask other people questions because we're sick and tired of being asked questions. Well, sick and tired is a strong way to put it. But, you know, tired and stuff. tired and sick. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel. Help an Acapella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform?

We do some retirement home. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What's up, fam? It's Isaiah Thomas. And I'm C.J. Toledano. It's our favorite time of the year on our podcast point game, the playoffs. We're digging into the biggest surprises of the season. And I'm looking back on some of my greatest playoff moments. If we didn't talk ever again, I was hungry. You just understood.

That's how personal it got. Wow. Then after that game seven, Mark keep coming to. He's like, you know I love you, dog. You know, it's all love. This was just playoffs. This was just basketball. So listen to Point Game on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Here's something that should not be as complicated as it is.

Getting a racist statue removed. And here's something that should be a whole lot easier than it is. Getting a new one put up in its place. I'm Akela Hughes. And Rebel Spirit, season two, is about both of those things. As I was watching these statues come down, I was thinking about what it meant that I grew up in a majority black city in which there were more, amages to enslavers than they were to enslave people. Listen to Rebel Spirit Season 2 on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed human.