The Herd with Colin Cowherd - HOUR 1 - Nets, Durant, Kyrie

Episode Date: June 27, 2022

Doug Gottlieb in for Colin The Brooklyn Nets sold out to the stars. It didn’t work. Now it looks like they’ll have to start over again. Destined to fail from the beginning.     Guest: Charles Robinson    #douggottliebshowSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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I'm Doug Gottlie. In for Colin Cowherd, who's posting videos from the... Do you go Caribbean or Caribbean? Maybe we can put that as a poll question. All right? Pirates of the Caribbean. But do you go to the Caribbean? Seems like he's on somewhere very, very warm.

I do think we've uncovered exactly why Colin isn't hat on backwards guy. He struggles enough with hat on forwards. Again, all of this is off his Instagram. Speaking of Instagram, a great way to get in touch with me on IG at Gottlieb Show, on Twitter at Gottlieb show, or I have my own show called the Doug Gottlieb Show. On Fox Sports Radio, you can check out that Facebook page. Great way to communicate. Let's just get right to it.

Charles Robinson's going to join us. He's a senior NFL reporter from Yahoo Sports. We'll get his thoughts on the latest regarding Deshaun Watson, also on the latest regarding Jimmy Garoppolo, and we'll do a little Baker Mayfield as well. But the story of the day and the story of like this week. And congratulations to the Colorado Avalanche won the Stanley Cup, right? Kidding, I do know that.

It's a little bit of a running joke in my show, is that there's no disrespect to hockey, but as a sports fan, you can like hockey, and if you happen upon hockey, really enjoy the traditions and the celebration of hockey, but let's be honest,

nobody cares about hockey. It's just, right? Like, it's your city, it's your team, you pretend for a while. Granted, in New York, they do legitimately care about the Rangers, but nobody's sitting there going like,

man, the abs, huh? Like in Denver, like level of excitement right now, over the Aves or over Russell Wilson being your quarterback? The Aves or Jamal Murray coming back next year. Like, come on, what are we doing? Broncos, one, two, three, and four,

and then a little nugs before we get to Rocktober and then Aves. But the Aves did win. And so all traditions sleeping with, drinking out of super bizarre pictures, I'm sure coming with the Stanley Cup. But I was, yesterday was a Sunday where I didn't have much going on. and, you know, there's a fight between the Angels and the Mariners. That was fun. Some baseball highlights.

And I was just thinking, you know what? There's nothing really going on in sports, which means there's got to be something going on in the drama of the NBA. And then I woke up to this little ditty, this story, which is just perfect. Because that's what happens, right? What used to be the hot stove league in terms of importance, the offseason of Major League baseball, Kurt Schilling, having a Thanksgiving meal with the GM of the Red Sox, right? Those deals, that's become the NBA offseason. Sources have told the New York Daily News that Carby Irving has requested and received permission

from the Nets to find a sign and trade partner from other teams. Kevin Durant still hasn't spoken to the Nets front office. Russell Westbrook to Brooklyn remains highly unlikely. So, basically the nets aren't on a break. The nets have said like, hey, you want to date somebody else? Go for it.

And no one who truly cares about somebody else wants to let their significant other date anybody else. This is a divorce. It's over. The only thing left to do is point fingers at what went wrong and why it went wrong and then try to find a way to move on to get to the next thing. the Nets have two incredible assets.

Really, three. I don't know what you do with Ben Simmons. I mean, Simmons can't shoot and coming off of back surgery. Yikes. I know, yeah, by the way, there hasn't been one mention of, you know, I would love to play with Ben Simmons. No one has said that. Doesn't mean he's not a tremendous player and talent,

but isn't it interesting that he's not even a throw into the conversation. But let's be honest, the Nets sold their soul. They did. and they had a soul. They were one of the few NBA teams that had. That's the other part to it. Like, the Lakers didn't really have a soul to sell. This is like what the Lakers do, you know,

is they poach other teams' stars. You know, it happened with Kareem. It happened with Wilt. It happened with Shaq. You know, they, obviously, Powell was not viewed the same before they got him, but it happened with Powell. And yes, they drafted Kobe. and I think it was a draft day trade for magic

and they've had some incredible players. But the Lakers, and especially the Lakers teams post-Cobie Bryant's career, didn't really have a soul. So it wasn't like selling their soul when you have one is a big thing. The Nets did. You go back to when Kenny Atkinson was the coach

before Kyrie and KD arrived, and they were the model for the rebuild. They had, Keras Levert, who they'd cleverly found in the draft. They had Spencer and Dinwiddie. They played analytics basketball. They weren't the best team in the NBA, but man, were they fun to watch? And gosh, did they cheer for each other?

And like, listen, if you remember, and we'll bring it up for you in a second, what Sean Mark said at the end of the season, he told us basically all this stuff was coming. It was everything you need to know about how they feel about Karee, but he kind of was talking about everybody, but he was. he was really talking about Kyrie. They're sitting there watching their team and they're disgusted at the lack of playing for each other. They don't show up to work every day.

They don't play for each other. They don't listen to or respect the coaches. It's just a bunch of guys happen to wear the same uniform. So we shouldn't be surprised. I mean, take a listen. This was Sean Marks. Remember Sean Mark's background? He was with Phoenix when they had Mike Dan Tony.

And of course, that's when he and Steve Nash became close friends. He's a San Antonio's, Spurs organization sort of guy. He's a, he's also a Kiwis from New Zealand. There's just a completely different mentality to that of traditional NBA, vagabond, free agent, show up, run ISO's, best ballers wins, right? This was what Sean Marks said when asked at the end of the season about the team's long-term commitment towards Kyrie.

Is the organization committed to Kyrie long term? Yeah, look, I think that's something we've been discussing, and we will continue to debrief on and discuss throughout this offseason. It's honestly not just Kyrie. I mean, you bring Kyri up, but we have decisions to make on a variety of different free agents throughout our roster. We haven't had any of those discussions yet, so it would be unfair for me to comment on how it looks with us and Kyrie, because to be quite frank, he has some decisions to make on his own. what he's going to do with his player option and so forth like that.

But I think we know what we're looking for. You know, we're looking for guys that want to come in here, be part of something bigger than themselves, play selfless, play team basketball, and be available. And that goes not only for Kyrie, but for everybody here. Yeah, listen, he's not singling out Kyrie, but he's singling out Kyrie. You know, and we should have seen this coming, if not in Brooklyn, previous to it. right you know look karee and anybody who's been through multiple relationships will tell you like look once you start to get divorced the second and third time at some point time it's not your partner

it's you and there has never been a come-to-jesus moment for kairi there's never been that moment where he's sitting there without team maybe that's what this becomes when he tries to arrange a sign and trade and nothing really comes of it i don't think that's the case because he's still so super talented. And it's very easy and frankly fair to put most, most of the blame on Kyrie Irving. This is not just about the vaccine. Anyone who tells you Kyrie being essentially jettisoned by the Nets and a sign and trade is about the vaccine is not being honest with you. Go back to when he first arrived in Brooklyn, midway through his first season in Brooklyn. he was asked about the team and he said, and I'm not quoting him, but essentially what he said was,

hey, look, some of these guys are great. A lot of these guys won't be here when we get everything we want. Who says that about, remember what Sean Mark just said? We want guys who play for one another. Whether it's true or not, whether there was a bigger plan, who says that? Then, of course, there was the COVID shutdown. Remember, Kyrie Irving was the one on the league call. who tried to talk the rest of the players,

not only out of not going to the bubble, but of starting their own league. Then when the Players Association decided to go into the bubble, go into the bubble, this is the same dude who, you know, he was coming off a knee thing. He didn't have to play. Go and support your teammates.

Go into the bubble. You train every day. And, oh yeah, by the way, Jock Vaughn was the interim head coach. If you didn't like Kenny Atkinson, who you gladly got fired, how about giving, how about giving Jacques Vaughan a chance? Didn't. He and Kevin Durant didn't go support their teammates.

Then they hire Steve Nash, who, friend of Sean Marks, and essentially they thought they were getting, you know, a Steve Kerr sort of guy, right? Who doesn't like Steve Nash? Who doesn't respect Steve Nash? And he had a working relationship on some level with Kevin Durant from his limited time with the Warriors. and what did Kyrie say? I don't think we need a head coach.

Then, of course, you talk about availability. It's not just about the vaccine. You go back to a year ago. They're playing in the NBA playoffs, and they beat the Milwaukee Bucks by 40. James Harden's not healthy. Kyrie gets hurt again. They lose in game seven because they don't have Kyrie.

And then, of course, there's all the stuff this year, including which, and let's not undersell, like, understand if you want to be a practicing Muslim, but to not, when you're celebrating Ramadan, you're not going to eat food or drink water and you're in the NBA playoffs, you're already a depleted team. Now you're a depleted player. All of these things are putting yourself above team.

But if you're the Nets, you can say no. You could say no. They didn't. They bit the apple. Remember, like here's where LeBron James is smarter than we give him credit for. The story of Kyrie Irving, moving on and asking to be traded from the Cavs, reportedly goes back to they win an NBA championship. And LeBron James is like, yeah, I'd like to get rid of Kyrie and bring in Chris Paul. He knew.

He knew. Then they're just traded to the Boston Celtics, who did not have the talent without him, but they went to the Eastern Conference finals without him. With him, it was a mess. It was a mess. you didn't know Kyrie was about Kyrie? The flat earth thing isn't about whether or not he believes, he believes that the earth is flat. The flat earth thing is about, by his own estimation,

challenging conventional wisdom. There's a difference, I believe, between challenging conventional wisdom and a scientific fact. But okay, you do you, boo. The problem is he's a guy that has a guy that has a question for everything. We all know these people, right? And it's the old, and if you're a parent, you know this,

it's the because I said so rule. Like every once in a while you go, because I said so. Because I said so. You just have to do it. You just have to not say anything about teammates that aren't going to be along for the remainder of the ride. You just have to go to the bubble

and support your team. You just have to, even if you are a practicing Muslim, you got to drink at least water, you got to supply yourself with electrolytes. You can't go through a physical, NBA playoff series against the best defensive team in the NBA and be a shell of yourself because you're tired. And so while Kyrie rightfully deserves a huge chunk of the blank, so the Nets, because they had their happy little organization. They had a player who grew up in New Jersey

supposedly longing to play for the Nets. He went against every part of what their culture stood for. And yet, they signed him because he brought Kevin Durant with him. Because the talent was too much to resist. And now it's over. Trade him. Get as much as you can return. And then you probably got to trade Kevin Durant.

You've got to start it all over. That's biblical. Don't bite the apple. Don't bite the apple. Doug Gottliebun for calling. This is the herd. If you believe what has been leaked by the NFL, they want a certain type of suspension for Deshaun

Watson. What does it mean? We'll discuss next. I'm Doug Gottlie. This is The Hurd. Be sure to catch live editions of the herd weekdays in noon Eastern, 9 a.m. Pacific on Fox Sports Radio, FS1, and the IHeard Radio app. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only

legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds.

I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined.

And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment. And the next, we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger.

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double-tap Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do with Little Kim? Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick it here, unpack what went down,

and try to make sense of how we survived it. Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill, waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84's big to me, not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack all day, but just so y'all know. I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack. So I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have eggs on the table right now.

Thank you for finishing that sentence. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really? Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hard Way with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kear Games. And in recognition of Mental Health Awareness Month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and

conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking. Trip Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing. And we're still chasing it. And we don't know when we've done enough. Because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross, because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth. Are you a good person because you're afraid? Because that's two different intention. bro. Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person. Join me, Keer Gaines, is we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast,

learn the hard way. Open your free iHeartRadio app. Search, learn the hard way, and listen now. Doug Gottlieb in for calling this is the herd, Fox Sports Radio, IHeartRadio app. Welcome in, by the way. My podcast is called All Ball, not just the Doug Gottlieb show podcast, which follows this show on most of your Fox Sports Radio and I Heart Radio affiliates. But All Ball is Mike Procopio is my guest this past week. I have three-part series with him. He was Kobe Bryant's like personal advanced video scout. Just a really interesting mercurial journey.

So download All-Ball with Doug Gottlieb and you can listen to it. And the stuff he has, especially part two and three about Kobe, how he came to meet Kobe, work out, Kobe, and what Kobe was like to work with. amazing, amazing. That's all ball with me, Doug Gottlieb. I got some Andrew Wiggin stuff for you. That's pretty fun. We'll get more on the basketball.

Rick Buecker is going to join us next hour. Eddie House will join us in the third hour of the show. Clayton Kershaw had interesting comments on his new teammate, Freddie Freeman, who had a homecoming of sorts going to Atlanta this weekend. We got all that upcoming. I want to turn to the National Football League because there are multiple reports that the NFL is seeking an unprecedented suspension for now Brown's quarterback Deshaun Watson. And that unprecedented suspension would be an indefinite suspension. There's going to be a hearing, I believe, later on this week.

Why later on this week? because all the pretrial discovery for his remaining civil cases is set to be in on the 30th. And then, of course, you'll have at least that complete side of information. There was supposedly some talks between the NFLPA and the NFL that broke down two weeks ago for a settlement between Deshaun and the league. And that, of course, has gone the way of the dodo since Deshaun settled with 20 of these 24 accusers. So there's a lot to get to.

Let's welcome in Charles Robinson, senior NFL reporter from Yahoo. who. His podcast is called You Pod to win the game. Charles, thanks so much for joining us. What's your sense of where the league is with Deshaun after he settled 20 of those 24

cases? Well, I think, look, this is the crossroads week for the league, Deshawn, the Cleveland Browns. I think it's interesting. So late last week, you know, you started to hear this year,

number, right? And I had a conversation with some people on Friday. And I think it was interesting because someone who is right in the middle of this process, remember, this is something that involves the Browns, the union, the league office, two different legal teams. I mean, there's so many people involved in this. You know, someone said, look, that one year number, this suspension number, they want that out there. And I thought it was interesting, you know, assertion. And the point that this source was trying to make is this could go to the arbitrator, Sue Robinson, who's jointly, you know, a former federal judge jointly chosen by the union and the NFL, Sue Robinson could sit there, look at this, and decide, yeah, this is a violation of personal

conduct policy. However, by the letter of the law and what I'm looking at in front of me, which is the narrow scopes from what I was told, five to six women that they're focusing on, and whatever they could bring to bear in terms of evidence, if Sue Robinson looks at that and says, I think this is a 10-game suspension. The idea of the NFL having leaked out, we want this one calendar year suspension, it's already out there. And it gives the NFL potentially the ability to say, hey, we thought it should be a calendar year.

We thought it should be something a little stronger or more lengthy. However, hands are tied here. She's in our, you know, she's a former judge. And, oh, by the way, she's a way, she's a way. woman, and so she made the call. We went through, you know, we collectively bargained this, right? Like everybody had said before, hey, the NFL, it's rigged and the disciplinary aspect's rigged. So we hammered out this whole new system where we bring in this arbitrator.

And even though we can appeal this decision of the arbitrator, it gives the NFL ability that we're just going to trust the process. We're going to, in effect, and this was not my words, but the words of the source, we're not going step on the arbitrator in this situation. And we're going to trust that a federal judge was a former federal judge who sat for more than 20 years on that bench was able to essentially sort out what was in front of her and make the proper decision. And even though maybe the public and the optics aren't happy with the number of games that she decided were applicable here, you know what we want. But we're going to go ahead and move forward with what.

her decision was. So you can either look at it that way or you can look at it that it's just an application of pressure that they know this is going. You know, the hearing begins on Tuesday and they want it out there that, hey, this is what we want. Everybody knows what we want. And now the microscope moves away from us and onto this independent arbitrator. Doug Ghalybin for Colin. This is the heard Charles Robinson from Yahoo Sports. Your senior NFL reporter is joining us. Okay. So the contingency plan, does it have any chance of involving Baker Mayfield remaining with the Browns? You know, I don't, and I think that's strictly because Baker, there's a feeling inside the

organization that Baker has zero interest whatsoever in remaining there. There's no trust remaining between Baker and the team. I think he feels like the front office lied to him. He's been at loggerheads at times with Kevin Stefanski over the offense. And then I think there's an element of feeling. a little bit burned over how the Beckham relief ultimately played. Then everyone was in Baker's Corner when some of those things played out. And then, oh, by the way, subsequently, members of the Brown's organization players

were interested in trying to recruit Beckham back to the team. And so I just, I think when you talk to people in the organization, they know that, that at least from their standpoint, they feel like Baker feels like every single bridge has been burned and there's just no way of ever coming to some kind of middle ground that would allow him an opportunity, even if, and I've said this before, even if it is probably the best case scenario for Baker Mayfield, if Watson is out for the totality of 2022, I think sets up for success better in Cleveland for Baker than anywhere else. But as we've seen in the past, you know, Baker's got a lot of personal pride and he tends to hold grudges. And I think this is going

one of those situations. Okay. So, I mean, I operate under the belief that with Baker, especially with Baker, but also with Jimmy G., who's supposed to start throwing very, very soon, both of these teams are really, they're looking for a San Bradford-Dinnesota sort of situation, right? A team that get desperate. Is that fair? Is that a fair way to look at it?

Yeah, I think, you know, I think for Cleveland, the fact that the Carolina Panthers have not completely pushed themselves away from the table permanently, has kept a flicker of hope alive in Cleveland that, you know, at some point the Panthers will relent on this idea that the Browns have to pick up, you know, $15 million worth of what is like an $18.9 million salary. The Browns have just sat there and said, look, we're not, we're not going to deal Baker for, you know, a sixth or seventh round pick and pick up, you know, $15 million to the tab. That's us buying a late-round pick for $15 million. That's just stupidity.

Like, why would we do that? And, you know, they're still not in the position of absolutely having to make that decision until training camp comes around. You know, the union's going to sit this one out. But look, if they haven't traded them by training camp, the union's going to say to the Browns, you've got to let them in the building, you know, to go to work, or you've got to make a decision here. You've got to cut them.

You have to make some sort of a decision moving forward. And, you know, I think the Browns think in the interim, Well, let's hope the Panthers saw enough in their full squad mini-camp to make them think, hey, we should maybe roll the dice on Baker here. I don't know if that's necessarily happened. It feels like nothing's really changed for the Panthers or the Browns since the end of the draft and those negotiations. And unless Baker-Mayfield says, hey, I'm willing to sit out training camp,

I'll cut a deal with you guys, and we can sit through training camp and see if something develops. Unless he's willing to do that, I don't know that, you know, a Sam Bradford type of situation ultimately unfolds because, you know, people got to get on the field. Somebody's got to get injured for that to develop. And that would take you pretty deep into training camp. So it's the space to navigate, I think, for the Browns with Baker Mayfield. And really, even the 49ers, Jimmy Gropolo is shrinking rapidly. And, you know, the 49ers, I would put in a different box only because I do think, there is some thought inside the 49ers that even though outwardly looking in, it seems awkward,

the 49ers would still be willing to ride with Jimmy Garabolo on the roster if he would just rework what his salary is for 2022. Charles Robinson joining us from Yahoo Sports. Lamar Jackson, still no contract. Feels to me like, you know, like he's just playing the long game because he wants more money than anybody else. And like, look, he has been a league MVP. He's won a playoff game.

He's the face of the franchise. You know, he has talent that is not replicable. On the other hand, he was hurt last year, and the likelihood it is he could get hurt again. And there does appear to be a bit of a ceiling, at least to this point, in what you can accomplish with the style that best suits him. Where are they in a contract discussion? Showed up for the full squad, the mandatory minis. I mean, you know, they were perplexed that, I mean, they've wanted to do a deal.

They've wanted, I mean, you talk to people in an organization. I've never seen anything like this where we clearly want to pay a player and there's just a lack of engagement. Now, I would say there has been engagement since then. I think it's mild, though. I don't think it's not moving in that organization or with Lamar Jackson. I don't suspect that all of a sudden we're hearing, oh, they're cooking a deal up quickly and all the heavy lifting is going to get done. This, to me, remains a situation that the feeling around it hasn't changed. Like you said, he's betting on himself in some ways, and there are a multitude of other contracts

that are going to come in. The Kyler-Murray deal, I think, will likely get done before training camp begins. You have other quarterbacks that are going to come up next off season where teams are going to want to move on those deals pretty quickly. I don't know how fast the Broncos want to go back to the table with Russell Wilson. but I know that they want to lock him in to, you know, a number of future years beyond what his deal is right now. And Russ is a little underpaid when you look at the market. You know, so I think Lamar Jackson knows when I sit back here and look at all these other quarterbacks who played it out,

played themselves at least into the first franchise tag or through the first franchise tag, the numbers have increased exponentially for those players. And the fact of the matter is if he goes through this season and he remains healthy and as you said, that's a risk. And, you know, he can continue to, I guess, you know, blossom inside that scheme even though you know you lose Hollywood Brown seems to be less offensive assets there. If he can put up another MVP type of season though, under these circumstances or remain healthy, I mean, there's a very real chance that Lamar Jackson, when he does his deal is the highest paid quarterback in the NFL after, say, the 2022 season, maybe after the 2022 season if he feels like he wants to play through one year of the tag. It's an immense gamble, but I would just say this.

A lot of us looked at Dak Prescott and thought, this is crazy. Like, why does this guy keep gambling on himself at some point? This is going to go sideways on him. It did. He even got hurt. Yeah. Yeah.

And he still got paid. Yeah. No, I mean, it's going to be fascinating to see what the final number is. and, you know, who's the, or who's the guy who tries to play that game and it comes back to bite him, especially Lamar because of the way in which he plays. And, you know, I mean, if you run the football that much, gosh, you feel like it takes years off your football life. It really kind of, you get the sense of that. Here's the question I ask every NFL guy who really knows, because I do think this is a fascinating way of looking at it.

we talk about Lamar Jackson. We'll talk about the Packers. We'll talk because of Aaron Rogers' new contract. Obviously, San Francisco with the quarterbacks, Cleveland with Deshawn. There's always a team or two that falls through the cracks that we don't pay any attention to until like midseason. The Bengals were the perfect team for that. Who's the team this year that people in league circles are like, that's a really good football team? And we won't catch up to it until they actually start playing football.

It might, this is going to sound crazy because people. people just think of the age and they, and they just sort of toss it out, but it might be Matt Ryan and the Colts. Like, I know that it's, it's almost like he's such an afterthought. And in some ways, I blame Philip Rivers because I'm not, I don't personally blame Philip Rivers, but I think the experience of rivers going to Indy and then this idea of like, well, is there anything left there? And, and there just wasn't. And it was sort of like, okay, we should have known the sun was setting there. And, you know, that it wasn't really going to work out. They weren't going to get a lot of it. I don't think, when you, it's interesting because when you talk to people in the Falcons organization, you know, there was some bad blood there that ended up in that divorce. Like the Falcons didn't necessarily want to get rid of him, but after the Deshawn Watson Dallions kind of went down,

he had it. He was like, no way, like, I'm out of here. I don't want to be here anymore after that situation. But you talk to people in the Falcons organization, like, no, like, he still got it. Like, there's something in the tank there. And I think they know there's a chance he goes up to Indianapolis. and he's able to put together the kind of season that the Colts were really hoping to get out of Carson once and didn't, even though, you know, once probably in some ways exceeded what some of us thought he could in Indianapolis.

So I think maybe people are sleeping on Matt Ryan and just assuming like, hey, it's over, it's done, he's toast, and it's going to be just like Rivers or it's going to be like the last year of Rothesburg or whatever. I care less about when Indianapolis is saying and more about what Atlanta, in his thing. When you talk to people in Atlanta, like, no, he's not done. Like, he's not. And so I think that might be the guy that,

that quietly people are sort of ignoring right now. And by mid-season, we're like, whoa, there was definitely more there for Matt Ryan to still accomplish. That would be, that would be fascinating. I mean, just incredibly fast. The New England thing, where you have Patricia and Judge calling plays. I understand. and they do things differently there.

This is differently to a completely different level. What are people in league circles saying about their desire to not hire a true offensive coordinator to call their players? That Bill is probably calling offensive. Is Bill Belichick, whoever it is, and it's likely going to be Patricia, that it's going to be Bill Belichick who's really steering more of the offense than people realize. And what's really interesting is that's not. I mean, there are been times in the past that he was there that, you know, Bill had the inclination to be a bigger offer on that. And, you know, I think at times it was a little awkward, you know, and particularly for Brady.

And so I think that this is a little bit of a reflection of that. I don't think that's necessarily gone away. I think part of the reason why Bill is okay trying something outside of the boxes because he's, He's sitting there saying he's not going to completely lean on Matt Patricia. And then obviously the surrounding elements of the coaching staff to put everything together, he'll play a part in it. And you can say that's ego. You can say it is, you can say whatever you want to say about it,

but the fact of the matter is, like, Bill is extremely versed in every part of that team. He knows offense as well as he knows defense. He'll probably don't give him that credit, but he, you know, I mean, he's bar none, the most knowledgeable coach in the NFL, and I think he's probably more than capable of kicking in, and it's not like he wasn't there, side saddle with Josh McDaniels all these years. You know, so I think Bill's capable of being an element in that offensive meeting room that maybe people aren't expecting right now, and maybe that's a little bit of what's getting missed is that we're sitting here going, geez, this just seems so awkward that he's going, you know,

just kind of plunk Matt Patricia down in the middle of this, and the next thing you know, he's supposed to be Josh McDaniels. I just don't think that's the case. I think it's going to be a little more of a group effort, and Bill's going to lead more of that than people think. The podcast is called You Pod to Win the Game. Of course, he's a senior NFL reporter for Yahoo Sports. He's a one and only Charles Robinson.

Charles, great stuff. Awesome insight. Happy Fourth of July weekend, T, and thanks for joining us in The Hurt. Absolutely. Thanks for having me, Doug. Have a safe one. The pleasure is always, always mine and the listeners for you give us to such great insight. News from Woj, Adrian Ward Janowski, regarding the Kyrie situation.

It is really interesting. It's next. Be sure to catch live editions of the herd weekdays in noon Eastern, 9 a.m. Pacific. Hey, this is Jason McIntyre. Join me every weekday morning on my podcast, Straight Fire with Jason McIntyre. This isn't your typical sports pod pushing the same tired narratives down your throat every day. Straightfire gives you honest opinions on all the biggest sports. sports headlines, accurate stats to help you win big at the sports book, and all the best

guests. Do yourself a favor and listen to Straight Fire with Jason McIntyre on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes. for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth.

Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care which I'll say. Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became.

bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream,

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So I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now. Thank you finishing that sentence. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really? Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

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And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person. Join me, Kear Gaines, as we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, learn the hard way. Open your free, IHeartRadio app. Search, learn the hard way, and listen now. Doug Outleyman for Colin, this is The Herd. Hope you had a great weekend. Hope your summer's off to a good start.

Colin will be back Monday. We may have a completely different Lakers team, or maybe not, by Monday. Let's get to Herdline News. No, no, no, no, turn on the news. This is the Hirdline News. Ryan, music, what are you got? Good morning, Doug. Good to be here with you, my friend. Always good to be with you.

Well, let's take a look at the NBA and potentially those Lakers that you were pointing out. Obviously, we all have our attention turned to the Brooklyn Nets, Kyrie Irving, Durant. In terms of Kyrie Irving, ESPN's Adrian Wojnerowski put out sources. Outside of the Lakers, there are currently no known teams planning pursuit of sign and trades for Nets Guard Kyrie Irving. No sign and trades can be formally discussed until after 6 p.m. on Thursday, Brooklyn isn't believed to have interest in available Lakers packages. If Irving declines his $36 million player option, he would be eligible to sign with the Lakers for the 6 million exception. Deadline is Wednesday to decide on the option.

Okay, so people understand the way the salary cap works, a sign in trade, that could allow him to rework his contract and the Lakers if they could get Russell Westbrook or whatever's contract off the books. That could work. That could work. But if not, the old, hey, bet on yourself, you'd go from making, you'd take a $30 million haircut. Now, look, I don't have $100 million in the bank, and I'm sure Kyrie does. So the idea of him, like, truly betting on himself when you already have those sorts of assets behind you, it's not the same as, you know, you and I going, hey, I'm walking for my job. I'm going to believe myself, I'm going to start my own thing, right?

But keep in mind, he lost the Nike deal. Here's a guy who's openly critical of his own. shoe of his own signature shoe, which sells really well from Nike. Okay. openly critical of his own shoe. So his Nike deals going away after these shoes. That's a substantial chunk of money. He lost a bunch of money last year, not being able to play and would make $6 million. I mean, everyone says, hey, I want out. I'm willing to do anything it takes, anything it takes to play with LeBron or to have another chance to remake my career, whatever, if you go from $36 million player option to $6 million after losing a Nike deal,

that is truly bad. In NBA circles, that's betting on yourself. That would be fascinating. But it also is interesting that right now, nobody's like, I ain't biting on that. I don't want any part of it. And remember, this, it's not a talent thing. Kyrie Irving is an elite talent. He's not a particularly good defensive player, and he does things which are incredibly arrogant, even defensively.

You know, I told Colin before, you know, when he was with the Celtics and his, their last series when he's playing the Bucks, they wanted to use him the way that Golden State used Step Curry, right? Where he wasn't switching. They were just kind of hiding him. And he kept switching on to Yannis, and guess what kept happening? Yonis went abused him, right? Like, we have a defensive scheme and defensive game plan. choose to do your own thing. So between the lack of coachability, the injury history, the struggles with him, one playing defense, but also playing within a defensive scheme,

I think you're getting, and I'm sure that all these teams are like, wait, so I got to sign up for a long-term max contract with a guy who may or may not want to play. And when he does play, despite the fact he's as talented a player with the basketball as we have in the league, I'm a pass. I'm a pass. That would be fascinating if no one wants Kyrie in a sign and train. What about like the Lakers specifically and, you know, this idea of him teaming up again with LeBron James? I mean, obviously it worked in Cleveland for at least a short time, but that team was also going on five, six years ago now.

Do you still see that as an elite pairing in today's NBA? I think it'll be different. I do think they're not the same guy. One, Kyrie's multitude of injuries. You know, Kyrie's multitude of injuries have changed some of that. But I also, I mean, like LeBron's not the same guy. He's not nearly athletic. Now, they have an Anthony Davis or when Anthony Davis is healthy,

which is, he's when healthy, when right, better than anybody else they had on that Cavs team that won a championship. but the league has changed. So would they be talented? Yeah, but you have two guys who are often injured in Anthony Davis and Kyrie. The bronze suddenly become injury prone because he's almost 40 years old. I mean, that's kind of reasonable. And then they got to fill out the rest of the roster.

So, yeah, do I think automatically, are they a challenger? Are they in contention if that were to happen? Yeah, what happens with Russell? Westbrook. What happens with the rest of this roster? There's still a bunch of other problems, and you win in this league. Like, everybody thinks Golden State won because of their offense and three-point shooting. No, they didn't. They won because of their defense.

When the Lakers won a championship in the bubble, they won because they're defense. That, Kyrie's not a good defense player, and LeBron's no longer a top-level defensive player. So now you've got to put together the rest of the roster. On paper, does it work? Yeah. Is it the same as it was six years ago? No.

We'll finish up with this out of the NFL, Doug. Earlier you talked with Charles Robinson about many things, also that being potentially the future of Jimmy Garoppolo. Not the future of Jimmy Garoppolo, but actually the past. His former teammate, Julian Edelman, when they were together on the Patriots, Jimmy Garoppolo had a short stint as the starting quarterback while Tom Brady was suspended for four games. That short stint was made even shorter when Jimmy Garoppolo suffered a shoulder injury.

he was heavily criticized by some former teammates at the time, and one of them being Martellus Bennett, who called out Jimmy Garapolo. Well, Julian Edelman was asked about those comments on the I Am athlete podcast, and he said, quote, we go into week four, Jimmy was practicing, then he decided not to play. Jacobi Brissette played with no ligaments in his thumb, which you can't do as the quarterback because he injured his thumb on his throwing hand. Edelman goes on to say, a lot of guys got mad at it.

I'm not going to lie, I got mad at it. I sacrificed my body all day, taking shots for this, numbing that up, broken ribs, shoulders, grade threes, hanging on by limbs, just trying to play. I can understand why Marty Bennett was thinking that. Well, it's interesting because Colin has always portrayed Jimmy G as a guy who's really well liked by teammates. That's in San Francisco. It's a little different in New England. Look, it's hard to question somebody once they're throwing shoulder.

And heck, I remember I was covering a game doing sideline for Fox when Ryan Taneyhill's shoulder went bad. before the Chicago Bears game. He was throwing, and then all of a sudden on a Friday, he left the field, and then he didn't play for a couple weeks. Brock Osweiler came in and won that game. But players know, and when players think you're thinking of yourself and you're soft, you won't play being hurt, you lose that locker room. And that's got to be one of the reasons that, one of the reasons that there wasn't an outcry for him to stay in New England.

And that's right. Music with the News. Well, that's the news. And thanks for stopping by. The Herd Lye News. Daniel Tosh is on tour now, right? He is on tour. He has a great bit about money and if it can buy happiness.

We'll talk about that. Plus, the things that money can't buy, right? They can't buy, including culture and sports. I'll prove it to you next. I'm Doug Gottlie. This is the herd. Another podcast from some SNL late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and Friends.

Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your performance.

Podcasts. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds.

I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. On the Look Back at it podcast. From 1979, that was a big moment for me. 84 was big to me. I'm Sam Jay. And I'm Alex English.

Each episode, we pick a year, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. With our friends, fellow comedians, and favorite authors. Like Mark Lamont Hill on the 80s. 84 was a wild year. I mean, it was a wild year. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Listen to Look Back at it on the IHeart Radio app,

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