The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Hour 1 - The Boston Celtics

Episode Date: March 6, 2025

Colin explained why the Celtics are the best schemed team ever, after Derrick White and Payton Pritchard each dropped 40+ points vs the Blazers and why NFL teams shouldn’t overpay for Seahawks star WR DK MetcalfSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. Hey, guys, it's us. The Jonas Brothers. I'm Joe. I'm Kevin. And I'm Nick. And guess what? We created our own podcast called, Hey, Jonas.

We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to it. We're the first people to do podcasts. We get to ask other people questions because we're sick and tired of being asked questions. Well, sick and tired is a strong way to put it. But, you know, tired and sick. Tired and sick.

Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you. you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman

help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends

on the ice. Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Winning on Clay is an art. The rallies are relentless. And at the French Open, only the toughest survive. I'd know. I competed there for decades. Join me, Renee Stubbs, on the Renee Stubbs' tennis podcast for no-nonsense breakdowns of the

biggest matches, the toughest players, and the moments that define Roland Garris. She can win. She's an outsider to win the French win. And she likes Clay. Listen, Lina Rubakina is arguably the best player in the world right now. And I actually can win on any service. Listen to the Renee Stubbs tennis podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHeart Women's Sports.

Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days I'd put on 10 pounds, I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Thanks for listening to The Heard Podcast.

Be sure to catch us live every weekday on Fox Sports Radio in noon to 3 Eastern, 9 a.m. to noon Pacific. Find your local station for the herd at Fox SportsRadio.com or stream us live every day on the IHeart radio app by searching Fox Sports Radio or FSR. You're listening to Fox Sports Radio. Man, do we have stuff today? We have so much stuff. We may just go four hours. Call Nick Wright.

Tell him we'll have to bump him. Live in Los Angeles, it's the herd wherever you may be. However you may be listening. Thanks for making us part of your day. I got to get the shirt right here. I mean, I'm doing so much intel here today and working the phones. I'm not even ready to go. J-Mack, I can't go to the Knicks Lakers tonight.

I've got an employee. I'm watching the game, but I've got a little bit of a meeting I've got to go to. You had one last night, too, huh? Stiff arm me. Well, it's not about, it was an Intel meeting last night. I got all sorts of good stuff. I just happened to be with an NBA, former NBA coach last night. Oh, oh.

How'd that go on? I think we could probably get him on the show. He had some interesting things to say, shall we say. Yeah, I know who it was good guy. So let's start with this. I've been watching the NBA since the early 70s. And this year, I think this is kind of funny, but I'm all of a sudden adjacent Tatum hater. And all I said about seven years ago is this kid's really good, but he may want to model his game after Kobe Bryant, but he's not Kobe.

Like, you've got to occasionally as a star, just be selfish. Even Steph Curry, who I love can be, hey, it's my ball. Stay away. And so I've said with Tatum, I look at the Celtics as a great team. and he's their most versatile, talented player. But he's not always their best player, and I'm not even sure if he's their lead alpha. I think Jalen Brown is.

So last night's a great example. Three Celtics were out, Drew Holiday Porzingis, and Jason Tatum, and Peyton Pritchard scored 43, and Derek White scored 41. That's what makes the Celtics great. It's not Tatum. It's the team thing. That tells you a lot about the team.

In the 70s, the Sonics were great. The leading score in their championship year was Gus Williams, 19 a game. The Washington Bullets at the time they were called, they were great. Their best player in their championship season, Elvin Hayes, 19 points a game. Like the 70s was about team construction, good coaching, one B-plus-plus star. Right? Then, magic, dynasties, bird, dynasty, shacks. dynasty, Kobe, Dynasty, LeBron, Steph, KD, MJ.

Then it was the dynasties taken over the NBA. Duncan. It was unbelievably otherworldly all-time talents, you know, guys that are on the all-time starting five first, second, third team. What the Celtics are is 70s basketball. Now, they may be the best constructed team ever, but this is not a star-driven team. Last night's a great example. In fact, think about this.

When Yokic misses a game, the Denver Nuggets are 10 points less of a team. And they're like under 500. When Steph misses a game, Warriors are seven points less of a team. I looked it up this morning. Here's another one. When Yonis is out, the Bucks 500 team, 7. less as a team. When Jason Tatum is out the last two years, the Celtics are not only 10 and 2, there are eight points better without him. So you're trying to tell me he's Steph. You're trying to

tell me he's Yonnas. You're trying to tell me he's Yonkich. The team's eight points better when he leaves. In fact, last night's the first time in Celtics history, two guys scored 40 plus points. Tatum and Brown have never done it. So it's like telling us. me Brock Purdy should be paid like Lamar Jackson, Joe Burrow, Josh Allen, and Mahomes. Jason Tatum's really good, but the story last night is what they are. They are a master class in roster construction because Danny Aange is a personnel savant, and so is Brad Stevens. Back-to-back, brilliant GMs.

Howie Roseman level. Aggressive, smart, risk-taker. Stevens is brilliant. He's too smart for college basketball, probably. And Danny Age is brilliant. How many teams does he take into the showers over the years? And they've constructed, I mean, it's like they beat the NBA apron. Like they have a cheat code. They just, they have more good players than everybody. I mean, Peyton Pritchard dropping 43. The hell's going on? No other team's got a guy like Peyton Pritchard going to win six men of the year dropping 43 when the stars out. So, holidays out, Porzingas is out, Tatum's out. They got

two other guys that can go 40 plus. So it's not a criticism. They're like the 70s team. They're not Shaq and Kobe. They're not Stephen KD. They're not MJ and Pippin. I mean, they're not even Duncan, Parker and Manu Genoblee. They are the greatest

roster constructed team with the most depth arguably ever. If in the 70s, they would have been the team that won a second or a third title. But they're not beating Shaq and Kobe. They're not beating Michael and Scotty or Katie and Steph. That's not what are. And so I just thought it was great last night that I've been saying this on and on. You are

trying to get me to put Tatum in this group with Yokic and Steph and KD and LeBron and the numbers are 10 and 2. He didn't play. This is the best 1970s basketball team on the planet. They just play in 2024 and 2025. And I think they will beat Cleveland in the Eastern Conference finals and that will be the NBA finals. The two best teams are Cleveland and Boston. Cleveland is a load, but I think Boston, what they did last night is I don't think Cleveland can do that regularly. If Donovan Mitchell's out, it's not the same team. Tatum's out, eight points better. And so, don't confuse contextualization and hate. I love Tatum. He's one of those guys. He'd make every team in the league. He's a tremendous player. I think he's closer to Clay Thompson.

Now, he's better than Clay Thompson. When Clay Thompson was the best two guard in the league, I had said at the time he's the only player in the NBA you could put on every team. And it wouldn't affect the team. It would just make him better. If you put LeBron, who's a better player than Clay Thompson, if you put LeBron on every single team, it would screw up some teams. Because he and his prime was the ecosystem for every offense.

You could just put Clay Thompson on any team in the league and be like, yep, we got the best catch-and-shoot guy, best number two defender in the league. And so I think that's Jason. I think Jason Tatum is actually closer to Clay in his prime than Steph in his prime. And you think that's a – Clay Thompson's a Hall of Famer. Now, I think Tatum's better than Clay Thompson. But Clay fits everywhere. Tatum fits everywhere.

But when Clay Thompson took the night off, Warriors were fine. Steph takes the night off sub-500. It's different. Joe Missoula on Derek White and Peyton Pritchard, lighting up the world last night. They were tremendous. I mean, I think with guys out and playing against a really good Portland team,

we're going to need to have guys step up. And the way those two plays just shows a lot about who they are. You know, they do a lot of the dirty stuff when we're fully healthy. They do a lot of the things, you know, for the team. And to have a night like this where those two can show what they're capable of was big for us. So, you know, we're lucky to have them. And it was a lot of fun to watch them do that.

By the way, before you bang on that Clay Thompson reference, Clay Thompson was a top five or six defender in the league and the best catch and shoot guy in the league. And there's going to be a first ballot hall of famer. So don't give me this. Jason Tatum is better than Clay Thompson. He is. Clay Thompson in his prime was unbelievable. It was unbelievable.

I mean, when you get a nickname as a back court, Splash Brothers, when you're considered better than Jerry West and Gail Goodrich. Yeah. Yeah. Clay Thompson was unbelievable in his prime. He can still drop 24 on any given night. Okay, so this happened yesterday. D.K. Metcalfe wants to be traded. J. Mack hit on this a year and a half ago.

Got to give him credit. He said, we're in a, you heard of a housing bubble. He said, we're in a wide receiver bubble. We're paying these guys too much. And it's really interesting. So right now, D.K. Metcalf is $31 million against the cap. And I know he's good. But I was thinking about this driving to work this morning.

Jamar Chase wants $40 million a year. Jamar Chase played last year, and with Joe Burrow, they couldn't make the playoffs. Justin Jefferson's the best receiver in league history through five years. He's never won a playoff game. The Eagles won the Super Bowl. Jalen Hirsch threw for 18 regular season touchdown passes. Until this Super Bowl, the Chiefs had dominated the league recycling wide receivers. The bills got better without Stefan Biggs.

The only time the Patriots and Brady had a great receiver like an all-timer was Randy Moss. didn't win a Super Bowl. The last three seasons, NFL touchdown wide receiver leaders have a single playoff win. So it's not that I don't like receivers, but I'm going to talk about something that never gets discussed. In fact, I've never seen this discussed, even online. I'm sure it has been what I like about wide receivers, do they move the chains? Do they get first downs? Edelman with Brady. Ammeron, St. Brown with golf, Puka with Stafford, Kiddell with Brock Purdy, Dallas Goddard with Philadelphia. They move the chains.

I've said this about the deep threat receiver. He's the convertible sports car of the NFL. Useless. Flashy Fun talked about. Useless December, January. So Amar on St. Brown has 73 catches that resulted in first downs. That's what I want. Brock Bowers as a rookie tight end, and the Raiders were bad at quarterback,

had 61 catches that resulted in first downs. D.K. Metcalf had 35 and was also the most penalized receiver since he entered the league. So half the time, because of tantrums, he's pulling you back to first and 30, or first and 20. So it's not that I don't like him, but Jim Harbaugh's career, everybody's like, D.K. Metcalf, Chargers. If you go look at Jim Harbaugh's career, he doesn't have dominant number one receivers. Jim Harbaugh has coached in six, either conference championships in college or conference championships in the NFL. That's a lot. Six.

Who's his dominant number one receiver? That's not who he is. So I don't think this is a fit to the Chargers. I really don't. They moved off Bosi yesterday. They're going to draft an endrusher. I think of Hardbaugh. I think of toughness.

I think of O-line-D-line. I think of physicality. I think of risk-taking. I don't think wide receiver. But it's not that I don't like D.K. Metcalfe. But he is the most penalized receiver since he earned the league, and he doesn't get enough first downs. I like Goddard and Kittle and Puka.

And who I really love is Amarong St. Brown. 73 catches are first downs. I don't need four-two speed. That's awesome at the combine. I don't need it. When he was in his prime, Cooper Cup was a first down. You go to that Matt Stafford run to win the Super Bowl. Cooper Cup was a first down.

That's what I'm into. Not $40 million a year, $31 million cap hits, and really flashy and fast down the field. End of the year, I need to move the chains. I'm not getting 65-yard rainbows. All right, J-Mack. Had a big piece of meat last night, steakhouse night. Is it not settling well in your stomach? Is that why you're going after Jason Tate and you start to show?

Best team of the NBA defending champions. First team all NBA, lock again. And you're just just trashing him. No, no, no, no. I'd like to say once again, you didn't hear the compliment that the Boston Celtics are the 1970s NBA. They're just better than all those teams.

I go back to those Washington bullet teams, unselled, Bobby Dandrich, Phil Schneer, Kevin Grevy, Elvin Hayes. They were outstanding. I can name the Sonics roster, the Blazers rosters. But they were all, they had one really good player. Bill Walton was great before the injuries.

But it was mostly roster construction, and then all of a sudden, Magic and Bird changed it. Then we became the Dynasty League. People are, and to have a Dynasty League, you have to have a superstar. Last night, Tatum's out. They're now 10 and two without him. There is no other superstar in league history that leaves, and the organization

wins more. That's roster construction. The star is Brad Stevens and Danny Aange. Those are the stars of the same. They even change coaches. They literally change coaches, no effect. Yeah. I wonder how Tatum keeps getting selected first team all NBA. Like honestly, that means he's top two at his position forward in the league, in an arrow with LeBron and KD and like, you know, Janice and Luca. Something's giving Tatum a lot of props. By the way, Clay Thompson made a lot of lists. He did, yeah. Oh, okay.

He was awesome in his prime, two-way player. Awesome. It was great. He was the best two-guard, two-way two-guard in the league for eight years. I mean, number two-like at least three or four, yeah. Well, I mean, who was the second best? D-Wade. It was when Wade kind of phased out and Clay took over as a two-way player.

For about seven years. He was the best guy in the league at his position that fit everywhere. That's what Tatum is. Tatum is a great, he can score, he can defend, he's a good guy. You know, the other thing is, stars at some point, are, they just take the ball and say, talk to the hand. I mean, that's what they do. I think Tatum sometimes is too nice.

And it's a great quality as a human. It's not necessarily a great quality to be a basketball superstar. Do nice guys still finish last, or is that like an antiquated thing? No, no, that's antiquated. Nice guys do fine. Do they? But they're not as good as Shaq. You got to be a jerk.

I think you've got to be kind of a good. Well, sometimes you have to be selfish. Sometimes it's like, it's my ball, it's my team. Marcus Smart. Let's just, no. You got to talk to him in the huddle. You will not touch the ball for four minutes. I need the ball.

And by the way, that's what you have to say. That's just what you have to say. But that's not what the Celtics are. I mean, good God. Holiday Tatum Porzingis out. Peyton Pritchard. He's good, man. He might be the second best contract in the league after Austin Reeves.

They got a couple of them. Celtics have a Derek White. He was for about three years. They're stacked, man. They got a great team. No, it is, it is. If Luke can Lebron, take them down? I would argue it's in all time.

The Celtics aren't good. It's an all-time roster construction team. I mean, the Healds didn't have a center and a good point guard. They had three great players. They were totally lobsided. They had minimum contracts everywhere. I mean, the Lakers, it was Shack Kobe, you know, then some D-Fish, but there was holes. There are no holes on the Celtics.

There are none. They defend the rim, the perimeter. They can defend on ball. They have no blemishes. Tatum's gone. They're 10 and 2. That is an all-time roster we're looking at right now in the NBA. All right.

Diana Rusini, top of the next hour. Chris Broussard stopping by as well. Oh, I got more Steph Curry love. More Steph Curry love. Be sure to catch live editions of the herd weekdays in noon Eastern 9 a.m. Pacific. On Fox Sports Radio, FS1, and the IHeard Radio app. Hey, it's us, the Jonas Brothers. And guess what? We have some big news. What's the news?

Huge news. We created our own podcast called Hey Jonas. We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to it. We're the first people to do podcasts. Pretty, yeah, pretty wide range of podcasts. We're starting a trend. But this one's extra special.

So how do we actually come up with a name Hey Jonas, guys? I honestly don't remember. I think it was on a call about what we should call it. And, well, we were thinking I'm originally calling it one of the early names of our band before Jonas Brothers. This is how you guys remember it going down? Yes. I have a very different memory of this. We were talking about a thing, a bit for the podcast, where people could call in and say, hey, Jonas.

And then I wrote down on my little notepad, Hey Jonas, and offered it up as a potential title for the podcast. But thanks for remembering that, guys. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some

retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The French Open is one of the toughest tests in tennis, and I know firsthand because I competed there myself. I'm Renee Stubbs, and on the Renee Stubbs Tennis podcast, I'm breaking down everything happening at Roland Garris, every match, every upset, and what it really takes to win on clay. Jen she went down in three to Rovachina, but I'm delighted. She's an outsider to win the French for me.

And she likes Clay. Listen, Lena Rubakina is arguably the best player in the world right now and actually can win on any surface because if she's serving, well, good luck. Consider this your court side seat to the French Open. Listen to the Renee Stubbs tennis podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHeart Women's Sports.

Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth.

Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. You're now entering the No Bull Zone, sponsored by credible great rates none of the bull by the way uh somebody just sent me a friend inside the company sent me a text about this selth i'm calling the celtics the greatest roster construction i've ever seen the fact that tatum drew halliday and porcings can be gone and derrick white and pritchard last night both drop over 40 it's in that's that nobody could do that now the pistons somebody sent me this the o four pistons that beat the lakers similarly did not have a superstar although it was ben wallis and

Rashid Wallace and Chauncey Billups, a Tayshon Prince. I think the Celtics are a better version of that, a much better offense. Rip Hamilton was on that team as well. I think this team's better. But I would say this Celtics, those pistons, you know, the Sonics, the Blazers, the Washington Bullets at the time. It's just incredible. And the other thing is people say, well, how come he always makes all NBA? Remember, the NBA came out with that 65 game minimum to make a war.

Tateham always plays 65 games. You know, like, like sometimes, is LeBron going to do that? Is AD going to do that? Is Yonis going to do that? Is Luka going to do that? So Tatum's going to make the lists. That doesn't necessarily mean anybody thinks he's Yokic. But if you go look at Yokic, Stefan Yonis, and LeBron, when they're off, the team is

noticeably worse. This team's 10 and 2 without Tatum and scores eight more points a game. It shows you how unbelievably historic the Celtics roster is. I mean, I think Cleveland could win the championship in almost any other year in the last seven or eight. I just don't think they'll get through Boston. So I know Celtic fans think this is hate. It's like, no, this is the greatest non-superstar team ever. You just keep telling me, Tatum's a superstar, and I'm just telling you he's a star.

He and Jalen Brown are Tatum's better. It's close. So I love this. other day. Shack came on after Steph went into the garden and rocked another one, just a great night. And Shack came on the air and giving the ultimate respect to Steph Curry.

I demand your fans to start putting Steph Curry in that greatest of all time conversation. Just start putting them in a conversation. So with the conversation of Jordan, O'Brien, Kobe. Start putting stuff in that conversation. I demand it. Why does the Big Man Alliance need to say something? Because I am the Supreme later and my voice counts. Listen, I played against Mike, played with Kobe,

played against and with LeBron. They're all great. But at some point, we're going to have to put Steph Curry in that category. I think the greatest compliment about Steph Curry that I could pay him is I think you have to consider replacing Magic Johnson on the all-time starting five. I'm not saying you do it, you got to consider it. Now, we all know, Kareem, LeBron, and MJ, those are, etched in stone.

Kareem most unstoppable shot, Michael, the most relentless greatest player, and LeBron, the greatest Swiss Army knife. We can argue about forwards, Duncan Bird, whatever you want, but we have three etched in stone. I always thought it was four. I always thought magic was etched in stone. But if

you look, one of the reasons that LeBron and would wear well, because LeBron would be good 50 years ago, good 10 years ago, good today, good 20 years ago. LeBron's everything. I don't think magic. He would be great today, but I don't think his game ages as well.

I think Larry Bird's game ages better than magic's because of the three ball. I think Larry Bird today would be, I mean, what would he be? He would be Luca. I mean, he would be Luca in better shape. That would be Larry Bird. He would be unbelievable passer, unbelievable score. Not a great defender, but he'd be Luke in better shape. You couldn't stop him.

He'd score whatever he would score 40 points regularly. He could score 50 if you wanted to. Bird ages very well. Magic's not a shooter, and it's a shooter's league. That's why I don't like the Houston Rockets in the playoffs. They can't shoot. I don't want to hear about their athletes. They can't shoot.

But if you've never seen Steph play, you've never seen him play. Think about this. This is how you would describe his game. He scores faster than any human being ever. Like remember when Reggie Miller got like eight points in nine seconds? That's Steph's entire career. He scores faster than anybody. So he changed.

I mean, Magic Johnson may have saved the NBA, but Steph Curry revolutionized not only the NBA, international high school, A, U and college basketball. Here's Steve Kerr talking about his best player. Steph is the most unique superstar of all time. The way he impacts the game is different, and so when you have these conversations about who's the greatest ever, you know, you automatically go to these, you know, genetic marvels.

you know, LeBron and Michael Jordan and, you know, Will Chamberl and whoever else. Jeff doesn't fit that normal mode. So I love that Shaq is bringing that up because from a skill standpoint, it's not even close. He is the greatest ever from a skill standpoint. Yeah. And I just love that he's enduring and that he just, he was sort of on a treadmill to nowhere. They gave him Jimmy Butler. He just said, I'm my average.

I'm going to take one more shot a game and average six and a half more points a game since Jimmy Butler arrived. That tells you he just needed a push. He needed a buddy to show off to and he's back to be in all-time stuff. Jay Mack with the news. All right, Colin, let's get started with the Dallas Cowboys. Everybody loves when we talk Cowboys on this show. The start of the new year is March 12th rapidly coming to that date. and last week Stephen Jones said the Cowboys will be selectively aggressive in trying to add free agents.

Yesterday, Jerry Jones had a different description of their offseason plans. I don't think aggressive is the right word. I wouldn't call us really void in any area void if you include what we're going to do in the draft. I wouldn't see that. So as your question is addressing free agency, I'm not looking at free agency as a place to fill voids. Well, I do think they're bad. Offensive line and run game.

I do not think they're very good. So that point I don't agree with. But I do think there's areas. I think the defensive line, they've got an interior guy they like in Micah Parsons. I think their secondary's got talent. But I mean, at wide receiver, they're a one-trick pony, and at running back, they're dreadful.

So I'm not saying free agency is the answer. And they reworked Dax contract yesterday, so now they have some cap space. And Lamb, yeah, they got 56.6 million in cap. I would look at a Chris Godwin if the number was right, a number two. He's not going to. Well, I'm just throwing it out there. I think you could look at a number two. It's not a very good wide receiver class, and they have other needs before that.

Yeah, they got a lot. It's cowboys have a lot of questions. I like how they phrase this here in the note. Is it clear that the Cowboys have become an unserious franchise? This staff loves needling the Cowboys. All right, let's go to the next story. Another crappy team in the NFC East. The New York Giants.

Joe Shane and the Giants have promised to look under every rock to find a quarterback. They tried hard with Matt Stafford came up empty. And now there are reports that the Giants are the frontrunner to trade up for the number one pick. All eyes on Cam Ward, according to multiple NFL executives. They want to steal Cam Ward from Tennessee. Okay, so it's interesting. So the Giants are at three. Tennessee's at one.

In a bad draft, how much do you give up to go from three to one? Because if this story's out there, somebody's leaking it. One and a two? Maybe more? I don't know. The problem is... So you give up next year one and this year two? Probably, I think it's more than that.

What they're telling you is they think there's a gap between Cam Ward and Shadur, which most people do. Yeah, well, and that's the game. That's the game we play, right? Hey, man, Shadur. Nobody wants him. He's dropping a 29. Yeah, but Cam, Cam is a better athlete with a bigger arm. That's indisputable.

Cam has got better traits. That's not even arguable. Doesn't mean it'll be a better NFL quarterback. Where do they land? But I'm asking if you're the giant, if I run the Giants right now, and I look at it and I think, listen, Cam, we think Cam is an A prospect and Shador's B minus, which a lot of people do. I would say Cam's a lower A if he's an A, I see him more as a B plus guy and Shudor's a B guy. I think he'll be better than Bo Nix. I think he'll be better than J.J.

McCarthy? Maybe. I don't know. You could be right. McCarthy has Kevin O'Connor. So if you're the Giants and you get Cam Ward, and my takeaway is you're only going from three to one. You obviously have to give up next year's number one pick.

The question is, do I go, okay, I'll give you, I'll give Tennessee. I'll give you Kvon Thibodeau, and this year's two. So, Colin, I'll just point to the Bryce Young trade as be careful trading up. Okay, Carolina didn't have a great roster to begin with, gave up DJ Moore. They had nothing. They've been total garbage since then. the Giants don't have a good roster, do they? They got a couple good defenders.

Offensively, they're challenged and on the lines. They got Malik neighbors and nobody. The Jets are a bad team with a good roster. The Giants are a bad team with a bad roster. The Jets could trade up, right? Yeah. And still have some good players. I don't think the Giants have enough good players to trade up.

They would be then in a Carolina spot. No? I think you make a good argument. I do. Do you get Aaron Rogers instead? Like, what are your choices? Trade up for Pianport? I mean, that's why they went after Stafford.

It's, like, it's funny. I don't think Vegas is going to be very good, but I think they've got things I really like going forward. I don't know what the Giants do. I don't trust the GM. They don't have a quarterback. Russell Wilson, does that do anything for you? Come on.

Is he the fourth best quarterback in that division then? Yeah. Jaden, Hertz. Dak. Yeah, probably. Not great at all. Speaking of quarterbacks, let's go to round it out here, Colin. The Raiders are in the hunt.

And we said yesterday, Max Crosby was hot for Aaron Rogers. I laughed at that. Raiders fans are murdering me online. They are angry. However, Diana Rusini says the Raiders are not interested in Aaron Rogers. And the Raiders are looking at Russell Wilson

and Sam Darnold. Now, Diana, I think is coming on the show later. I don't know if I buy Russell Wilson reuniting with P. I don't either. I think teams like Darnold, but they love two to three years and Sam's agent probably wants four. Yeah, and I think Sam would take

take two years with the Vikings. Yeah, with the Vikings. But I don't think Sam's going to leave the Vikings if you're only going to give him two to three. So I think the Vikings could get a team-friendly deal because he loves the coach. He loves Justin Jefferson. He likes the city. Sam's not a flashy guy. Minneapolis is great for Sam.

He loves everybody. Okay, I'll sign for two. Team-friendly deal in Minnesota to stay. I don't have to learn a new system. Or pay me big-time Raiders. If you want me in Vegas, if you want me in some other area, I want four. I'll give you decent numbers, but I want four. And that's what I would do if I was Sam.

I'll take two in Minnesota. Well run, great coach, great weapons, nice ownership, division he's familiar with. I would leave, but if I'm going to go to a Raiders, you've got to give me four. Doesn't it feel like the Raiders are possibly SOL here? They're going to get stuck with maybe Kirk Cousins, the corpse of Kurt Cousins?

Hey, come on down, Kirk. We got nothing else. Justin Fields sounds like he's staying in Pittsburgh. We'll get to that later. I don't think anybody's very excited for Rogers or cousins. I'm surprised more people aren't excited for Darnold. I really am. I mean, Steve Kine was on yesterday.

I mean, he's been in the league for what, like six, seven years, and he had one really, really outlier of a year? No question. I'm not saying, again, I've said he deserves a Baker contract. I don't even think you could argue he didn't even deserve a Daniel Jones deal at 40-42. Well, that was. But, again, I'm a Sam Darnold advocate. I've always thought he's a great athlete with a big arm mobile.

He checks a lot of boxes. But Gino Smith also checks a lot of boxes too. He's big. He moves. He's got a nice arm. So there are guys like a Gino or a Darnold that check a lot of traits, but they throw too many picks. And I don't love him. I situationally like him.

All right, Jay Mack with the news. You're hearing a lot about trades. And there's a lot of people working trades. Some of that is because it's not a good free agent class. More criticism of Shador Sanders. You know, I saw something yesterday that happened. It was like a blizzard. It happened.

Boom, boom, boom, boom, boom with three high-end star players in the NFL. Not superstars, but star players. And it speaks to why we love the NFL and why baseball, but more significantly, the NBA, can sometimes be a hard follow. Talk about that next. If you feel like owning a home is out of reach, Rocket is here to give you the keys back to that dream. They think everybody. deserves a shot at the American dream. Owning the dream, owning a house.

Go to rocket.com or call 804 Rocket. Be sure to catch live editions of the herd weekdays in noon Eastern 9 a.m. Pacific. Hey, it's Steve Kavino. And I'm Rich Davis. And together we're Kavino and Rich on Fox Sports Radio. You can catch us weekdays from 5 to 7 p.m. Eastern, 2 to 4 Pacific on Fox Sports Radio and of course the IHeart Radio app. Why should you listen to Kavino and Rich? We talk about everything. Life, sports. relationships, what's going on in the world. We have a lot of fun talking about the stories behind the stories in the world of sports and pop culture. Stories that, well, other shows don't seem to have the time to discuss.

And the fact that we've been friends for the last 20 years and still work together, I mean, that says something, right? So check us out. We like to get you involved, too. Take your phone calls, chop it up, as they say. I'd say the most interactive show on Fox Sports Radio. Maybe the most interactive show on Planet Earth. Be sure to check out Kavino and Rich Live on Fox Sports Radio and the IHeart Radio app from 5 to 7 p.m. Eastern, 2 to 4 Pacific.

And if you miss any of the live show, just search Covino and Rich, wherever you get your podcast and, of course, on social media. That's Covino and Rich. Hey, it's us to Jonas Brothers, and guess what? We have some big news. What's the news, new? Huge news. We created our own podcast called, Hey, Jonas.

We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to it. We're the first people to do podcasts. Pretty, yeah, pretty wide range of podcasts throughout there. But this one's extra special. So how do we actually? come up with a name, Hey Jonas, guys.

I honestly don't remember. I think it was on a call about what we should call it. Well, we were thinking I'm originally calling it one of the early names of our band before Jonas Brothers was... This is how you guys remember it going down? Yes. I have a very different memory of this. We were talking about a thing, a bit for the podcast, people could call in and say,

Hey, Jonas. And then I wrote down on my little notepad, Hey Jonas, Jonas, and offered it up as a potential title for the podcast. But thanks for remembering that, guys. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it.

Another podcast from some SNL, late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform?

We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The French Open is one of the toughest tests in tennis. And I know firsthand because I competed there myself. I'm Renee Stubbs. And on the Renee Stubbs tennis podcast, I'm breaking down everything happening at Roland Garris. Every match, every upset, and what it really takes to win on clay.

Jen Chinchin win. I mean, she went down to three to Rabakina, but I'm delighted. She's an outsider to win the French for me. And she likes Clay. Listen, Lena Rubakina is arguably the best player in the world right now. And I actually can win on any surface. Because if she's serving, well, good luck. Consider this your court side seat to the French Open.

Listen to the Renee Stubbs tennis podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHeart Women's Sports. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year.

Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Here he's heads to FS1. Some door-to-door action at the jewel of the desert in Phoenix. Pre-race kicks things off at 2 Eastern with the green flag flying at 3.30 on FS1. Diane and Rusini, top of the hour.

So I saw this yesterday. Made me think. You know, my show has always been kind of the same. For about six and a half months, it is heavy NFL and some college football and some playoff baseball. September, October, November, December, January, into February. Take a couple of weeks off, come back, get into NBA, March Madness, free agency, draft, then back into NBA and take the summer off. All right, we all know the drill.

But I do like the NBA, and people sometimes poo-poo the NBA. You know where it's popular? L.A., New York, Boston, Philadelphia, big cities. College football is big and smaller markets. Irrelevant in New York, Boston, Philadelphia. Not sure how relevant it is in L.A. sometimes. but I do think, and I'm an NBA fan since in the 70s, I love the games, I watch the games, I spend a lot of time consuming it and talking about it.

But there is something about the NFL, which is really great, and it's not necessarily great for the athletes, but football players are employees. Okay, they shouldn't run the league. Cooper Cup, I saw a story this morning. The least likely outcome, according to the GM of the Rams, is him being a ram. Joey Bosa Chargers, released. DeVante Adams, Jets, released. I'm not happy for that.

They'll find markets. They'll find teams. But in the NFL, you do not get trapped. Outside of Cleveland, nobody guarantees stuff, right? You get some money up front, sometimes a lot of money up front, but you can get out of, everybody in the NFL is a sailboat. You have a turning radius. You can escape.

Nobody's an aircraft carrier. It's the opposite in the NBA. I mean, the Bradley Beale contract, Paul George contract, Joel M. Bede contract. You can't move those things. Hell, Zach Levine and Trey Young, very good players. They had no market this summer. You can't move off those contracts. And those are good players. The NFL secret weapon, there's no quicksand. I mean, think about this. Think about the Eagles and Rams.

This shows you the viability of the NFL. So the Eagles and Rams use up all sorts of draft capital to get a Carson Wentz or a Jared Gough. and then not only do they get them, they pay them top of the market. And then after a while, they move off them. They're still paying them and they're not there. And they both win a Super Bowl right after that. Rams won a Super Bowl paying golf and Stafford. Because the draft provides you so many good players ready to play,

not 18, 19-year-olds that take, you know, it takes years and years and years for Janus to develop or, you know, a Zion to get it going. Right? Like it's just a different league. But in the NBA, when you go all in, you get punished. And I don't love that. I really don't. I told Adam Silver this.

I like trades. I think the NBA has always been afraid of things that don't exist. Ooh, major trades. I just, I told Adam Silver this a month ago on the show. You should have more trades. Luca to the Lakers, Jimmy Butler to the Warriors, saved this NBA season. The ratings were in the tank. It saved the season.

more fans love trades now fans didn't love katie going to the warriors that felt like unfair but lucca and jimmy butler going to viable superstars felt great the ratings are up so like but in the NBA the sons go all in on k d and bradley beale and now it's a mess i mean they're a disaster that doesn't happen you can go from a laughing stock to the nFC championship if you get the coach the quarterback and the GM right, Washington. And I think that is so powerful. In fact, last year, the guys looked it up. The Broncos, the Bills, the Eagles, and the Packers led the league in dead cap money.

They all made the playoffs. They all made the playoffs. So, I mean, think about this. San Francisco got super aggressive and went after Trey Lance. I mean, they gave up all sorts of draft capital. They still went to the NFC championship that year. And I think two years later went to the Super Bowl. So I like a league that doesn't punish executives for taking chances, making moves, and sometimes they're wrong.

My buddy Steve Kine went out to dinner with him last night. He drafted Josh Rosen. The next year he goes, I made a mistake. He drafts Kyler Murray. Oh, suddenly they're a better team. And I think sometimes to protect the NBA player, you hurt the owner. You hurt the GM. You hurt the fans.

You just don't get trapped. The worst NFL teams, I mean, like we were talking about this this morning. Tennessee is a team right now. You don't love the roster. You don't love the quarterback situation. We don't know if the coach can coach. You don't know. If they get Cam Ward, would you be shocked if they won their division?

I wouldn't. I wouldn't. I think they have good enough line play that'd make it work. So I think that's always been a little bit of the secret sauce is that you can move off a boza contract. or a Cooper contract or a Devonte contract. You may still have to sometimes pay for a Cooper Cup contract. It doesn't punish you.

I don't like industries that punish people punitively for taking swings. Because you know who benefits when you take swing? The Lakers are a great example. Westbrook move did not work. A.D. move did. Luca moved great. But the Lakers have always been willing to take swings. J.J. Reddick move.

I mean, Lakers, they have been, I mean, they take massive moves. Some work, some have been a disaster. Don't punish them. Don't make them awful because an executive rolls the dice. I always think fans win with risk. You get in trouble when you're Cleveland and you guarantee a contract. That's why after they sign that, everybody summarily ripped the Browns. What are you doing?

This is not the NBA or baseball. Don't do that. Here's another thing, Jay Mack, I'm going to throw at you. So sometimes cultures just change. I'll give you an example, wine. Remember the movie sideways? It kind of romanticized the wine industry. So when I was younger, you had some wine makers, maybe gallo or something like that.

And all of a sudden they started making movies and wine got very romantic. And I swear to God, every rich guy in America with some extra lettuce bought a vineyard, had a wine. And then what happened in the wine industry, and without getting too much into my personal life, I have a connection to it through a couple of things. Wine now, you have too much wine and not enough wine drinkers. Wine's not a good business. It's oversaturated. For 25 years, Hollywood romanticized wine, celebrities in wine, everybody bought a vineyard that had money.

Everybody, it was romantic. Now you got too much wine. Young people are drinking canned cocktails, which I don't like at all, but young people drink that. young people are drinking less and doing more cannabis. So between cannabis sales, young people moving to canned cocktails, and people in society, all these like Zep bound and OZempic, they don't mix with alcohol. So that's become a cultural change. So you got the cannabis, you got the Zep bound and the Ozempic, which do not react well to alcohol,

and you got all the canned cocktails. The wine industry is not a good industry. And so things change. You could own wine stores. You could own a vineyard. You could be a brilliant business person. He just lost 37% of your market. There's nothing you can do.

And that's why they always say in business, strike when the iron's hot. You don't know what's going to happen. So, you know, I was thinking about this with Shadour Sanders. He's getting, I just saw another story today from the athletic. Well, not because of the kid, but because of his dad, Dion, the social media stuff. It's about him, not the team that could turn people off. And it does remind me a little bit of the wine industry. Bill Parcells used to famously say, do not draft a celebrity quarterback.

And Bill was right. But now it's not about if you're going to be a celebrity quarterback when you draft him. It's how are you going to deal with being a celebrity quarterback? Because they're all celebrities. Lamar, Burrow, Josh. I mean, Herbert's done as good a job as you can do in L.A. hiding from celebrity. But they're all celebrities. between NIL, your dad's Deion Sanders, the quarterback positions never meant more.

You know, it's, it used to be that bookstores were all the rage, right? Well, now, contents digitized, so bookstores aren't the rage. Doesn't mean you didn't know what you were doing. You may have run a great bookstore. So I think this thing, I think GMs have to lighten up. I think NFL draft, specialist, draft, directors, and NFL GMs, what 21, 22-year-old that suddenly gets wealthy is going to be, is going to handle that celebrity perfectly.

Nobody. It's just not possible to ask a 21-year-old, I mean, when people banged on Caleb Williams, my knock on Caleb Williams is his accuracy is hit and miss and sometimes a bit too reliant on making the huge play. And I think Mahomes did a lot of that early. but he was more accurate. I defended Caleb Williams to the end on the fingernails, on the jumping in the stands with his mom. I never talked to him three or four times.

Never thought he had an ego. Last time I saw Caleb Williams, he got out of his seat, walked 30 feet to me. I've never seen the ego. He's a confident kid. But I think we're nitpicking all these quarterbacks. Well, they're a little brash. If you were 21 years old, your dad was a superstar, and you made $7 million last year, you're confident. Sorry that you don't bow down to Cleveland when they interview you.

So I think like Bobby Knight's career, he would not embrace the one and done. Coach Shoevsky did, kept winning titles. A lot of people don't like the NIL. Dabbo is Swinney. I don't like the NIL. It's hurt the program. And I like Dabo. And I like Clemson, but it's hurt the program.

So you just sometimes, I don't care if it's wine, bookstores, or the NIL. These kids are coming out now millionaires. especially the quarterbacks. So I don't think Shadour has been perfect. There have been a few tweets I don't love. But we got to lighten up a little bit on these kids. This is a whole new ball game we're dealing with, and they're coming out millionaires.

And they got leverage now, too. Diana Rusini, Chris Broussard. First hour flew by. They're. Hey, guys, it's us. The Jonas Brothers. I'm Joe. I'm Kevin.

And I'm Nick. And guess what? We created our own. podcast called Hey Jonas. We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to it. We're the first people to do podcasts.

We get to ask other people questions because we're sick and tired of being asked questions. Well, sick and tired is a strong way to put it, but, you know, tired and sick. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smigel and Friends. me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman

help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,

or wherever you get your podcasts. Winning on Clay is an art. The rallies are relentless. And at the French Open, only the toughest survive. I'd know. I competed there for decades. Join me, Renee Stubbs, on the Renee Stubbs tennis podcast for no-nonsense breakdowns of the biggest matches, the toughest players, and the moments that define Roland Garris. Genschen, she's an outsider to win the French for me. And she likes Clay.

Listen, Lennar Rabakina is arguably the best player in the world right now, and I actually can win on any surface. Listen to the Renee Stubbs tennis podcast on the IHart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHeart Women's Sports. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all,

embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.