The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Hour 1 - The criticism of Doc Rivers

Episode Date: February 21, 2024

Doug Gottlieb in for Colin JJ Redick being critical on ESPN about Doc Rivers Why the Bears won’t pass on Caleb Williams   Guest: Mark Medina   #douggottliebshowSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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I'm Doug Gottlie. In for Colin Cowherd. And for the next couple of hours, I want to talk sports with you. From Poway to Escondido. All the way to Tori Pines to Tomecula. You got to be old school Sokow to know that. Huh? Man, we got a good show for you.

Our guy, Mark Medina, is going to join us. he's our Fox Sports Radio NFL, NBA insider, then Middilkoff is going to join us. You know his pod. It's on Collins Volume Podcast Network. John and I are going to go everything from, honestly, like, all that kind of matters now is, what do the Bears do at one, right?

There's a lot of other stuff. What are the Bears do at one? And who should the Niners hire as their defensive coordinator? Antonio Pierce is calling for the Mahomes rules. I do wonder if Antonio Pierce knows what the Jordan rules are. I'll explain upcoming. But let's talk some hoop a little bit,

but also it's more about the way in which the sports in the media is broadcast, right? And it's really interesting because even within Fox, Fox and the ESPN, CBS doesn't really do that. But you're actually listening to the only guy who's worked for all three places. Yes, this, Doug Ghaly can't keep a job at any of the three places, right? Maybe that's, maybe that should be the, the headliner. But the fact is that, um, J.J. Reddick is a rising, can I use the word burgeoning? It's a good word. Burgeoning star at ESPN and ABC.

So much so that I believe he's going to be calling the NBA finals with Doris Burke. I'd be a three-person booth. and this week he reappeared on first take. And the whole sports world was reacting or has been reacting to JJ saying this about Doc Rivers yesterday. I've seen the trend for years. What's the trend? The trend is always making excuses. Doc, we get it.

Taking over a team in the middle of the season is hard. It's hard. We get it. Just like getting traded in the middle season is hard for a play. We get it. But it's always an excuse. It's always throwing your team under the bus. They lose to Memphis.

Oh, it's his players. Memphis was playing G-League guys and two-way guys. You look at his quotes over the weekend. Now he wants to take credit for the James Harden trade to the Clippers working out. He wants credit for that. There's never accountability with that guy. There's never accountability. Right.

So it's, it's, and of course, this has, this resonates more because JJ played for Doc. JJ played for that. He has the unique ability to actually, and we rarely get this in sports. We rarely get the, unless you're the scorned former player or the scorned coach. And even then, it feels fairly transparent.

Right? It's like, take RG3, for example. Like, RG3 trying to rewrite history and trying to pretend like he was the good dude when it's pretty obvious he's the scorned guy from his. time with Washington.

And he wants to create a completely different image of what went down. And that, honestly, to most of us in the business, especially the former players or coaches, like we see through stuff. I take special pride in anything I've said and done, especially in the world of basketball, which is my area of expertise, you would never know what I actually think about the human being. he just wouldn't because I try and separate what I think about a person and what I think about their performance player or coach. It's a really hard exercise to do, and I challenge myself to do it.

Whether I had a good interaction or bad interaction, that's not my job right now. My job right now is to tell you what I think about this team, this player, this particular moment. But to have JJ Redick say, no accountability. Same thing every year. It's like, damn. I guess JJ's experience playing for Doc was not all peaches and cream. As luck would have it, Doc who used to work for Disney, ESPN ABC,

and JJ who actually should be thanking Doc because JJ Redick was never going to call the NBA finals until Doc Rivers went back to the NBA. Like it just wouldn't have happened. I'd like to think it would because JJ has so many of the markings, I mean, he's a dukey. If you're a duke, don't you have to be calling a big game? But he has so many of the markings of somebody,

he's very educated on the game. He has a good way of delivering and explaining and trying not to lecture you. He teaches without lecturing. He's got a little bit of swag to him. He's got some recency to him. He's not talking about a game that was played 15 years ago.

Like, it all works, but he wasn't going to get that gig unless Doc bailed for the NBA. So, I don't know, part of you goes like, man, shouldn't he be thanking Doc? Doc's son, Austin Rivers, who of course played some for his son and played some for his dad and the Clippers, also worked for ESPN ABC, just happened to be on TV yesterday and this is what he had to say. It's just a strange coming from JJ, and I have love for JJ.

You're my dokey, you know that, you're my bro. I love you. It's just your best years were with the Clippers. I don't think he saved your career, but I don't think it, I mean, this just seems a little bit weird. But in terms of accountability, what are we doing here? Your best years in the NBA, where when you played for him in the Clippers, let's not forget that. I don't know if there's frustration there or there's tension there between you. I know a lot of times we had to sit you towards the end of the game due to defense of reasons. But you had your best years as a starter there, especially our whole system was drafted around you because you're a shooter.

You're not a guy who could put the ball on the floor. You were a strictly shoot guy. You're not like Clay Thompson or Steph who could put the ball on the floor. You're a guy who could catch and shoot. And you did it at a high level. Hell of a career, by the way. Big fan. but your best years were under him.

It's just very ironic and kind of weird that you have this energy towards him. The energy towards him is weird. I'm not going to lie to you. I'm not going to lie to you. I'm going to call BS on one thing. They did not build the system around JJ Radick. There was a guy named Chris Paul

and a guy named Blake Griffin and it was Lobb City and then they had DeAndre Jordan. Again, it was a very well-constructed team that for a myriad of reasons never accomplished essentially anything of historic substance, I would point out that while it won't go down as a championship team, not even close,

and forever it's going to be Clipper Curst. The actual reality is that team did something which was previously impossible. It made people in L.A. Clipper fans. It made people in L.A. Clipper fans. anyone who says they're a lifelong Clipper fan, including Billy Crystal, is a liar. Billy Crystal grew up in New York. He wasn't a lifelong, like his life started.

His first 20 years, I'm sure he wasn't a Clipper fan. He moves to Los Angeles. He becomes, he was that guy who was the first in the market Clipper fan. But there's lots of interesting parts here. Lots of interesting parts here. Like, Dukies aren't supposed to go at other Dukies. Teammates aren't supposed to go to their teammates. Former players, you don't go at your coach.

And oh, yeah, by the way, they both worked at it. DSPN like, whoa, isn't that hands off? Now he left and that's what happens when you leave. Anytime you leave a place, you'll have people that talk ish on you. That's, I learned that from former agent of mine was a great friend and he was like, hey, listen, everybody hates everybody. Just remember, everybody hates everybody. Like, really? Yep. But he's my, nope, everybody hates everybody. Unless they can make money with you or from you and then they're your friend until they can't. And then everybody hates everybody. Okay. I want to connect yesterday and today.

Doug Gottliebun, for Colin, this is the herd. So yesterday, JJ has this energy towards Doc. Then today he gets in a debate with Stephen A. Smith. And this is where we kind of get to what I think JJ is actually guilty of yesterday. And I don't know if I want to say it's the real problem with the media, as much as it's the real problem with sports. in general. Since when, is it players' jobs to educate people on basketball?

When did that become a thing? When did that become a thing? Isn't that our job? Isn't that our job? I'll answer. I do that as my job. That's my job to educate people on basketball. I'm letting you speak and then I'll answer.

It's our job, Stephen A, to educate people on basketball. It's our job. And here's the reality. This is the ecosystem we live. I can do a video on my podcast. I can do a video on my podcast where I break down the last nine games

the Pelicans have used Zion Williamson as the primary ball handler and what type of actions that has led to. I looked it up this morning. 54,000 views on YouTube. But I want to call it a coach yesterday. Oh, that gets tens of millions of engagements. That's the ecosystem we live in.

So do fans actually want to be educated or not? not do they it's a great question and the answer is yes and no i view and i think we can all if we cut away our ego uh i think we would all agree that hot take the the hot take movement in sports much like the debate uh movement in uh in news television okay all that is is like junk food. And just like junk food or the American diet, we as Americans are hooked on it. We know it's bad for us. We know it's divisive.

We know we're going to wake up the next day. Be like, oh, God, why did I? I love Popeyes. I love it. But, God, bless. There's no amount of gym work that's going to overtake the fact that your caloric intake is through the roof. as well as all the sodium, all the cholesterol, the bad cholesterol, et cetera, et cetera. Hot takes for junk food.

And educated film watching breakdowns, man, that is a healthy, healthy amount of veggies. That's a salad. That's keto. Right, that's even intermittent fasting is I'm sure it works for people, but the whole idea that you can intermittent fasting to eat whatever you want. Like, no, you can't eat whichever you want. You can't go like, well, I'm not going to eat for 15 hours of the day, 18 hours a day. Then I'm going to pound some milky ways and I'll be good. Like, it doesn't work that way.

And the truth is that your diet should be like your sports intake. everything in moderation. Like, look, I know lots of people who've run into this where they just love sports, love talking about the granular X-N-O, what a coach did, a move and adjustment. Hell, we were supposed to have Rosillo on today. Rissal is a perfect example of that, right?

Didn't grow up as like a hardcore Hooper, loves it. That dude watches tons of game and tape and has educated himself to the point that he knows what he's looking at. But then you get to the JJ's dilemma is like, look, just because I know what I'm looking at and know what my opinion is, one, it doesn't have the credibility of having played coached or worked in the NBA. And two, do people actually want that? Like what JJ's saying is right. Like, dude, I do a breakdown.

Nobody cares. It actually explains. And then I say, you know, Doc Rivers, there's no, never any accountability. And that spikes through the roof. Now, the magic to it is having a take. and supporting it with video, is teaching and educating and then promoting and using that to be your tech.

Let me tell you why Zion Williamson can be a superstar in the NBA. Look at how they're using him. This changes everything. Or having Zion Williamson and have all that stuff and then show the fact that he doesn't really dunk on people anymore because he's been so heavy.

I talk to NBA, people like, it's sad. He doesn't have any explosiveness anymore. Instead of saying, Zion Williamson's a bump! he's fat he's worried about social media right instead just like support it with actual evidence and now of a sudden it's like throwing in a salad when you got something bad for you which i think is why they put the asparagus it's always good to have asparagus when you go to steak place you guys ever do that like you eat a steak but then you make sure you have an

Asparagus. You're like, no, no, I had the asparagus that cleans out all this bad steak stuff. So I look at this thing and I think that JJ is, he's been dropped into this world which looks like something that he's starting to figure out, oh my gosh, I had no idea. And it's really, really hard to come off of fast food because it's full of sugar and salt and things that we become addicted to, just like the hot takes or just like, look, I'll I'll tell you, honest to God. So I worked at ESPN, and I want to make sure that this is a clear statement. I've worked at ESPN at CBS and at Fox.

And people ask, what's the best? Whoever the check comes. Like, they're all different. They're honestly, they're all cool. They all have a flaw or something I could pick apart. My time there was awesome. But the fight that a lot of us always had is like, do we always have to do a Duke topic? Do we always have to do a Kansas topic?

Do we always have to do those? Even in sports radio. Do I have to talk about LeBron all the time? Right? Thank God Tom Brady retired because between Tom Brady and LeBron, like that was the rundown to so many shows, especially ones on TV. And to people outside of the industry,

like, why do you always talk about LeBron? Why do you always talk about Tom Brady? The answer is in JJ's answer, which is people care. And our job is to talk about what more people care about. But who's going to be brave enough to collectively wean America off of fast food? That's really what it comes down to. I mean, I'll actually commend the FS1 guys because though they still, the topics are still, you know, kind of the same.

The tone is, I believe, has changed on FS1 network-wise. It's much more discussion and actual substantive sort of debate and it's thoughtful. as opposed to first take is still yelling and screaming, which, look, dude, there's a place in sports and sports arguments for yelling and screaming. I know. I have tons of friends, and one of them, I was driving home yesterday,

and we, not yelling and screaming, but we got into a debate over something I talked about yesterday. But it's like one of those things. We know it's bad for us. We know it creates these unrealistic expectations, these awful labels, okay? People say things out of anger or attempted to be funny,

and they're just, I mean, just kind of cruel towards some athletes or some coaches. And the worst part is completely uneducated. But you love it. You love it. It's our diet. And weaning off it also means weaning off of viewers. I know?

I mean, look, is there a world there where you can, I mean, part of the reason he only got 54,000 views on a breakdown was because it's the Pelicans and because it's not a... But part of it is it didn't have the machine of ESPN behind it, and it didn't become viral. Something goes viral, no matter how small it is, it blows up. So the reality is, had he done the same breakdown of, say, LeBron James not moving on defense, you know, and he picks apart like, well, here's the real reason that the Lakers aren't any good, and he starts breaking it up. And then he puts it with a take hot or lukewarm, if you want, on first take.

And then ESPN blow torches it out. well then it would probably there is again that's the everything in moderation and honestly isn't jj guilty of the same thing by yelling out that it's never about accountability and he didn't provide substance he didn't provide a story he didn't provide a background all we think is well j j j played for him he must never be accountable that's it chapter and verse but then he's asking isn't it our job, right, to educate sports fans. It is. Okay, JJ, here's the challenge. Explain to me how when you played for Doc Rivers, he lacked accountability and how that affected your team's performance. Do that. That's doing your job. But it's really hard because you're trying to wean people

off of the fast food, you're trying to wean people off of the sugar that is hot takes. Did you know Discover wants everyone to feel special? That's why we're Discover Card. You have access to 24-7 customer service as well as zero-dollar fraud liability, which means you're never held responsible

for unauthorized purchases. Learn more, Discover.com slash credit card, limitations apply. I'm Doug Gottlieb in for Colin coming up next in the herd. What are the people in the know? People in the league saying about the bucks and their struggles

since Doc Rivers has come aboard. You'll find out next in The Herd. Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays in noon Eastern, 9 a.m. Pacific on Fox Sports Radio, FS1, and the IHeart Radio app. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential.

Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care which I'm saying.

Yep, that's me, Clipper Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music.

The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast.

And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tap Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do with Little Kim? Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast.

I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick it here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84's big to me, not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack on day, but just so y'all know. I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack. So I'm starting to see that there's a through line.

We also have AIDS on the table right now. Thank you finishing that sentence. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really? Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Mark Medina joins us.

He's a Fox Sports Radio NBA Insider. And Mark, most everybody around the NBA talking about JJ Reddick's comments saying, never, there's never accountability with Doc Rivers, but inside the league, you know, coming off the All-Star break, talking to everybody, why hasn't it been a smoother transition for Doc Rivers? Yeah, Doug, it's a great question. I think the larger point, you know, when Adrian Griffin was there interim, when Doc Rivers, it was just hired, the common denominator is the buck sorely missed Drew Holliday.

He's been, he was a huge defensive player. He was, he was counted as an underrated defender for a while in the league. And so that's the main thing. But I do take issue with, you know, Doc's recent comments where he's not really taking ownership of what he signed up for. No one forced him to take a job mid-season without a training camp. And so while you certainly don't want to diminish those factors, you know, it doesn't help the situation. They've gone three and seven without him. And while there have been some defensive improvement, there hasn't been enough consistency.

They laid an egg against the Memphis Grizzlies, you know, with basically, their G-Leak roster. And so while I do tend a lot of that on the personnel, and as much as I like how Janice, Antacompo, and Damien Lillard, have played together as a duo. They can still be better. You know, Doc has to take ownership in the lane that he has that he's responsible for trying to get the best out of what he has.

Okay, but there is a, I mean, there's a real thing in terms of not having a training camp, right? I mean, like, you can't install, you can't change any defense. Like, do people understand how hard that is? It's a real thing for sure, but no one forced... No, but what he's trying to do is he's trying to create realistic expectations. You know, and look, what JJ said, what JJ Redick said in regards to, it's hard for a player to be traded. Yes, it is. Again, because you don't have training camp, you know, you don't have a chance to just install stuff.

I like, yeah, everybody runs about the same place, but they do things a little bit differently, and I think it's a real thing. Look, I think it's going to be the most interesting thing in the sport. It actually makes the bucks who are completely uninteresting for so long, interesting now, right? It's like this, are they actually worse with Damien Lillard than they were with Drew Holiday? And you bring in Doc Rivers, who's supposedly great with dealing with star players. And if he can't get him on the same page, who actually can. And these are also a couple of stars who are beloved as people, right? Right.

That's the difference, right? It's not like James Harden, and people are like, doesn't play defense, over dribbles the ball. It's not like there's stars that people don't like. Everyone loves Damien Lilith. Everyone loves Janus. And if you can't get them to coexist and work towards a championship, like, man, that does say something about those two that we didn't previously think.

No doubt. And I think we're in complete agreement that you don't have a training camp. That does change a lot of things. But I think the subtle differences is, you know, this is a team that's expected to contend for a title. the top of the Eastern conferences, isn't a team that's teetering toward the bottom, to your point, all good guys that get along well. And so I think it's more of the messaging and ownership that I'd rather hear from him.

Look, we're all dealing with different challenges, but we're in it together, all hands on deck. We all got to be better as opposed to trying to isolate himself as if he was inheriting some really tough circumstances that he already knew he was signed up for when he was approached about the job. Totally fair. Mark Medina joining us. Okay, so the trade deadline is passed. We do have, you know, some of these, the was buyout season or whatever.

Did adding Spencer, didn't it, would he change at all, how people look at the Lakers? I don't think it changes. I think that it helps. It was a great move. It was a cheap move. He fulfills positional needs, and the Lakers have a lot of them with outside shooting.

But I think the reality is the Lakers, their ability to possibly make some headway. It really hinges on what we've always known before. LeBron James Anthony Davis, they've got to stay healthy. They've got to stay consistent. Their supporting cast has to also provide them a de facto third option that you can rely on a consistent basis. And they've got to be healthier. And while I'm not under any illusion that, okay, they can win a title with all these things align well,

there is a pathway for all those three things to hit well. I mean, when you're looking at LeBron and 80 specifically, the games that they've played this season, it's already eclipsed some of their games that they were available for in previous seasons. LeBron played 49 games this season already. In 2021, only 45 because of injuries. Andy Davis, he's played 52 out of 56 this season. You know, in 2021, only 36 games, 21, 2240. And so while we shouldn't be naive to the fact that injuries could creep up,

at the worst time for them because LeBronzen is 21st season, 80s, injury history is what it is. They've given, I think, a pretty good sample size that they're going to be able to manage things well. The organization's going to manage things well. And what they've been on the floor, they've played at a high level. You know, as far as everything else, DeAngel Russell, he's always going to be an up and down player. But I think with the fact that, you know, there's more continuity with the starting lineups and the rotations, there can at least be more fallback.

and some of their other guys that they weren't able to get. The people I talked to are like, you know who the best team is? And I was like, the Nuggets? Nope. The, they don't want to say it, but they know it's true. It's the clippers, right? It's the clippers. And you have a coach who won a championship, right?

A coach who's great with adjustments. He's got, it seems like he's got buy-in from two that have struggled with buy-in in the past that's Harden in Westbrook. He's got Westbrook coming out the bench, not complaining about it. But does the league think that the Clippers can actually continue along this path as we get to when it really matters? Without a doubt, I mean, I got no rooting interest, but just the philosophical thing. I knocked, you know, on wood here because they obviously have to be healthy given their durability history or lack there of. But philosophically, they are hitting all the right notes.

and I don't put them as a favor, per se, but they're among the realistic contenders. They have done seemingly almost everything right ever since that initial five-game losing streak to open James Hardin's debut here. And what it's been, Russell Westbrook, not only volunteer to come off the bench, but he's excelled in that role. James Hardin, he hasn't been resorting to just doing step-back threes. He's embraced the facilitating role. He's not known and will ever become a defensive stopper by any means.

means, but he's at least put forth the respectable effort when it comes to, you know, not decline in assignment, being involved with team schemes. And when you're looking at the numbers with Kauai Leonard and Paul George, their efficiency is off the charts with moving off the ball. It's fewer shots, but easier shots. And while everything is going to revolve around those four players, they still have decent amount of depth around them. Norman Powell is a great two-way player.

He embraces any role that he has. a visa zubots is a serviceable rim protector and ty lu you know was managing all sorts of overlapping lineos because of Cleveland the common denominator with him is he's always been known to make the best adjustments make the best out of rotations and really make feel guys both empowered and accountable so yeah don't be surprised if we see a championship parade in l.A. here and it's not the lakers can you imagine i mean can you imagine and they're opening up their new building and next year that would be amazing. Mark Medina joined us at Fox Sports Radio NBA Insider.

Doug Gottliebun for Colin. It's the herd on Fox Sports Radio in the IHeart Radio app. Clay Thompson, it's one thing to have a former star player coming off the bench. We've seen that with Westbrook. He didn't adjust to it well initially. It's another thing to have. He had 35, one of the first nights off the bench, but there's also some by the language stuff.

How does this end in Golden State? How does it end in terms of what they do moving forward? Yeah, it's very turbulent and fluid, but I predict they're going to resign Clay Thompson. He'll play with them the rest of his career. I think we're not going to see the kind of extensions that he had as far as Max figures. He's well past that. So I think with Clay, while we saw some frustration there knowing how he is, I think that he will be adaptable and coachable to a new role.

I think it really just comes down to at his point of his career, Doug, ability. You know, we've seen him show flashes of pre-injury clay in terms of his shooting, and then, you know, some streaky games. But defensively, he just hasn't been the same player that he was pre-A-Killies, pre-A-L injury, where he's defending the best perimeter player, best-wing player. Part of that has been because they got reinforcements when they won the title in 2022, Andrew Wiggins was taking that primary responsibility, but he's not the same player this season on either side of the four.

So I think that when it comes down to it, because partly his market value is going to diminish, they're going to conclude it's much easier to come to the same conclusion that he's better on elsewhere, but it just has been a very turbulent time for him ever since he's come back from his injuries where he's not the same player and even if he does have the buy-in and he has flashes of what he's shown before defensively I just haven't seen him be that player that he once was no no his body let him down you combine that with the old-fashioned father time and you know the margin slight as guys are younger and um and maybe coming out the bench you play one of the things about come out the you're playing against in lesser players.

It gives you a chance to succeed and still contribute and still be close to what you used to be. So it's going to be interesting to see how he buys into that and what it evolves into. He's Mark Medina. He's our Fox Sports Radio NBA insider. Mark,

you're the best man. Thanks for joining us. Doug, right back at you, my father, thanks for having me. Let's get to Ryan Music with the news. No, no, no, no. Turn on the news. This is the herd line news. Hello, Ryan. Doug, my friend, good to be here with you.

Let's transition here to some NFL National Football League, and we'll talk Russell Wilson. You had Chad Johnson saying that he's hearing from a little birdie. Wilson will end up with the Steelers. Odds makers, they seem to agree as these Steelers are now being listed as the favorites to be Wilson's next team, according to Draft Kings, at minus 250. Other teams being listed as the Raiders, followed by the Falcons,

and then returning to the Broncos at plus $750. He ain't come back to the Broncos. Like, that's not happening. Like, that is, you literally... The odds would tell you, yes, it is quite a long shot. That's taking money and throwing it out the window. If you're... Not that people bet on these things.

Most people don't... There's not a big handle on them. Most stakes, yes. But this is weird, right? If you couldn't work for a quarterback whisperer like Sean Payton, if your ball didn't have great life in the altitude of Denver where Peyton Manning saw a resurgence after he couldn't feel his fingertips and a couple neck surgeries?

Correct. Like, Pittsburgh? Sure. Pittsburgh? I just... I'll tell you this. Again, I understand, like, look, Mason Rudolph's a friend, so you've got to take it with a grain of salt.

But, like, Mason Rudolph was better last year, inlimited than Russell Wilson was. Like, they, his level of frustration, he's not the athlete he used to be. He doesn't have the arm he used to have. And Sean Payton grew increasingly frustrated with the, with the fact that he would do his own thing. I mean, I don't know. And he doesn't actually read a defense all that well.

Like, that's actually the big thing is Russell Wilson, who is a bright guy, is not, he, he's not Peyton back there breaking stuff down. So I don't, yeah, I mean, I guess, Spenceburg thought, if we just have anybody who can do anything close to, but I don't see that one. That was going to be my selling point, is this is something that Colin's been on for a while with a long-time veteran defensive head coach in Mike Tomlin, is that perhaps his mindset is from a much more conservative space of we just need more of a game manager who can be efficient and not turn the ball over. and that's essentially exactly what Russell Wilson was last year. His first year with the Broncos under Nathaniel Hackett was straight up bad, like, terrible. And then it was greatly improved under Sean Payton this year,

but mostly in the efficiency in terms of high completion percentage, didn't turn the ball over a ton, which led to a good passer rating. Now, why that doesn't work for Sean Payton is, first and foremost, the contract. You can't just have a guy being okay and efficient with that high of a cap number cutting. Okay, so that's part of it. What does the contract look like? Exactly. Like, if he's making like league minimum,

again, I still don't love it for the Steelers because they play every game outdoors. Right. But I, you know, and I don't think, has he worked with Arthur Smith before? That's my other question. I don't believe so. Yeah, that's why most people thought

Marioita would be a guy who, because he brought Marioita. Of course, they had a bad falling out in Atlanta. But is there, you know, and that's, you know, you kind of track all these different guys and try to figure, okay, will they bring in Tannale? Who would it be? It does seem like an odd fit that way. I do agree. And maybe it's as simple as Sean Payton was done with it. He doesn't want to deal with it anymore. And then if the Seathor's can get him as a bargain, that's where they'll end up.

And we'll change gears to college football and finish with this. A lot of changes across the landscape for college football. And we now have another update for next season's 12-team playoff and the selection criteria. All right, go for it. Okay. So, this is essentially following the collapse of the Pact 12, because they had sort of agreed in principle prior to that, and now they've adjusted it.

The board of managers have agreed. Five highest ranked conference champions followed by the next seven highest ranked teams. What does that really mean? Basically, your big boy conferences like the Big Ten, SEC, Big 12, ACC, those are likely going to be the teams that automatically get in by winning their conference. Right.

There'll be one that doesn't, but there's only five major conferences because the pack went away. And now you're basically going to be left with. Which, by the way, this is what we should have done a long time ago. Only it should have been eight. Right. Then you have five conferences, and then three at-larges. You got eight teams. That's the best.

Right. And then so from what you were referencing, that final spot of a conference champion, highest strength to get in is somewhere. Yes, the AAC, Conference USA, Mountain West, Sunbelt, Met American. And then from there, that's when you're going to start getting the second best team in the Big Ten, second best team in the SEC out of the seven highest ranked after that's five. I mean, you can kind of do the math

already, right? Yeah. Right, you do all five conference champions, right? And then you have seven spots. So you're going to have probably three for the SEC. Now we've got four left. Two for the Big Ten. Now you've got two left.

One from the Big 12. One extra one from the extra from the Big 12 and one extra one extra one probably from the ACC. Yep. There's your college for a playoff. And that's right music with the news. Well, that's the news. And thanks for stopping by.

The Herd Lye News. The Bears are going to draft Caleb Williams. I don't know, but I know. I'll tell you how I know. You know? Next in the herd. Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd, weekdays in noon Eastern, 9 a.m. Pacific.

Hey, we're Kavino and Rich. Fox Sports Radio every day, 5 to 7 p.m. Eastern. But here's the thing. We never have enough time to get to everything we want to get to. And that's why we have a brand new podcast called Overbubes. promised. You see, we're having so much fun in our two-hour show. We never get to everything. Honestly, because this guy is over-promising things we never have time for. Yeah, you blubber lips.

Well, you know what? It's called over-promise. You should be good at it because you've been over-promising women for years. Well, it's a Kavino and Rich after show, and we want you to be a part of it. We're going to be talking sports, of course. But we're also going to talk life and relationships. And if Rich and I are arguing about something or we didn't have enough time, it will continue on our after show called over-promised. Well, if you don't get enough, Kavino and Rich, make sure you check out OverPromise. And also, uncensored, by the way. So maybe we'll go at it even a little harder. It's going to be the best after-show podcast of all time. There you go.

Over-promising. And remember, you could see it on YouTube, but definitely join us. Listen to Overpromised with Kavino and Rich on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all,

embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th.

You might have seen the skisks. hits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment. And the next, we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music.

The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to The Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tap Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do with a little Kim?

Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick it here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill, waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 is big to me, not just because of crack.

I'm down to talk about crack on day, but just so you're just so you're not. But just so y'all know. I mean, at this point, this is the second episode where we've discussed correct. So I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now. Thank you finishing that sentence. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really?

Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Dana Jeremiah, of course, move the sticks to the podcast. You'll hear him on Fox Sports Radio on our local affiliate AM570 in Los Angeles. Of course, he's the analyst for the L.A. Charger Games. DJ, who's the lead draft analyst for the NFL network, has his new mock draft out. And he has the Chicago Bears drafting Caleb Williams.

And he says, quote, there'll be a lot of debate on what the Bears should do with this pick leading up to the draft. But I still think it makes sense for them here. Look, I could talk myself out of Caleb Williams and found the Bears. I definitely think they could talk themselves out of it. Didn't have a great year. Had some immaturity stuff, right? He's got a lot of footwork stuff to clean up. Tries to make the home run throw.

And honestly, there hasn't been, the development he's had has been in-game. He hasn't, remember, he went to Oklahoma and he didn't have, I don't believe he had a senior year and then he goes to Oklahoma halfway like a couple games in the season he becomes a starter and he just kind of takes off like a rocket ship and there's no real kind of development

slowly but surely so it's going to take a little bit and you could talk yourself out of it. You could say hey man this is Caleb Williams huge hype machine behind him he's from D.C. The commanders obviously

want him. You could get whatever it says on that card trading for a guy, you get that plus one. You may be able to get a Herschel Walker type of trade for Caleb Williams. And you can rebuild your entire franchise. And you can do what hell the Niners did, which is you get kind of any accurate, smart, solid, athletic quarterback in the draft.

And then you put an all-star team around him and you're going to have great. You could do all those things. And it probably makes more sense considering like, look, the Bears, they sort of fix their offensive line late. They fixed the defense some with one with one trade, but man, you could just load up, load up. And have guys under rookie, instead of just having a quarterback under rookie catch. Plus you have another pick in the top five that you could keep ordeal or whatever. You could still get, there's plenty of elite process.

Jane Daniels is still a hell of a player. But the Bears are going to draft Caleb Williams. Do you know why? Well, obviously it's kind of, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, just read the list of bears starting quarterbacks in our lifetime. I'll just give you the ones in my lifetime. Bob Avellini? No idea.

Mike Phillips, Vince Evans. Jim McMahon, of course, famously led them to the Super Bowl, but that team is not known for Willie Galt. team is barely known for Walter Payton. That team is known a little bit for Richard the refrigerator Perry, but mostly because they had the best defense most of the world has ever seen. That in the 2000 Ravens, two best defenses you've ever seen. And probably Leeds in a Boom when they just dismantled and dismembered Peyton Manning

in New York. Like those are the best defenses. That's why they won. So Jim McMahon, Mike Tomzak, Jim Harbaugh, Peter Tom Willis. Yes, that's right. A guy named Peter Tom Willis was quarterback, starting quarterback for the Chicago Bears. Steve Walsh, Eric Kramer, Dave Craig, Rick Meyer, Steve Stenstrom, Moses Marino, Cabe McNown, Jim Miller, Cordell Stewart, Kyle Orton, Rex Grossman, Jay Cutler, Jason Campbell, Matt Barkley, Jimmy Closson, Mitch Trubisky, of course. But Mitch Trubisky is essentially the reason.

They had a chance of Pat Mahomes. They didn't take him because the ceiling was high, but so was the floor. Mechanical cleanup, some immaturity issue. sound familiar? Because they missed on Pat Mahomes, there is 0.0.0% chance they're going to trade, and instead they're going to draft Caleb Williams.

More radio genius like that. Come up up next in the hurt. Another podcast from some SNL late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and headwriters

Street or Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque.

Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's superhuman documented it all. Embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, this is Robert from the Stuff to Blow Your Mind podcast. Joe and I are both lifelong Star Wars fan, so we're celebrating May the 4th with a brand new week of fun,

thought-provoking Star Wars-related episodes. Join us as we tackle science and culture topics from a galaxy far, far away, such as the biology of taun tons and wampas on the ice planet hot, or the practicality and corporate business sense of the Sith rule of two. Listen to stuff to blow your mind on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed human.