The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Hour 1 - The face of the league

Episode Date: May 27, 2025

Colin points out the major difference between the NBA's MVP Shai Gilgeous-Alexander and the potential "Face of the League" Anthony Edwards as the Thunder take a commanding 3-1 lead in their Western Conference Finals series against the Timberwolves He doubles down on why he believes Shedeur Sanders fell in the draft Thoughts on the recent comments from Aaron Rodgers about potentially retiring from the NFLSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What's up, fam? It's Isaiah Thomas. And I'm C.J. Toledano. It's our favorite time of the year on our podcast point game, the playoffs. We're digging into the biggest surprises of the season, and I'm looking back on some of my greatest playoff moments. If we didn't talk ever again,

I was part of you. You just understood. That's how personal it got. Wow. Then after that game seven, Marquis coming to you, he's like, you know I love you, dog. You know it's all love. This was just playoffs. This was just basketball. So listen point game on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Every family has its secrets. But what happens when you discover that your dad has been living

a double life? That is not the look of an innocent man. Is everyone lying to me about who they are? I felt such desperation. I felt it was what I had to do. Listen to deep cover the family man. on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Thanks for listening to The Heard Podcasts. Be sure to catch us live every weekday on Fox Sports Radio in noon to 3 Eastern, 9 a.m. to noon Pacific. Find your local station for the herd at at foxports radio.com or stream us live every day on the IHeart Radio app by searching Fox Sports Radio or FSR. To Fox Sports Radio. Here we go. It is Tuesday, Tuesday, we are live. It is the herd. Wherever you may be, however you may be listening.

Thanks for making us part of your day. Nick Wright, one hour. Jaymax, there is something to be said about consistency, and I thought, I thought Minnesota gave it everything they had. Minnesota actually, J-Mack, won the box score. Field goal percentage, three-point percentage, assists, rebounds, fast break points, points in the paint, all Minnesota. Oklahoma City won the game. Oh, is this going to be a coronation? Is that what we're doing? We're just, hey, OKC is the best. They're going to start a dynasty. SGA for president is what we're doing today? Well, let's get down to what is the difference in the series.

They're both led by a significant talent at guard. The two best players in the series are SGA for OKC and Ant for Minnesota. Ant has more flash. He's more athletically dynamic. He's more vertical. We kind of want him to be MVP. SGA is the MVP, and you get the same game every night. That's why Oklahoma City, in these late game clutch time stretches is very, very good. SGA scored less than 20 points one time in the regular season. Ant 15 times. And they're both the centerpiece of the offense. and part of it is Ant is 23 and SGA is 26. Ant isn't as refined.

SGA is more focused, more refined, more consistent. You know what you get. He doesn't fall out of his game regardless of what you throw at him. He makes great decisions. He's older. The foot's on the accelerator. SGA averaged 33 a game. Why?

Because he mostly scored 33 a game. Ant averaged 2080 game. 39 one night, 22 the next night. That's what his game is. It takes a while. I mean, Tom Cruise is obsessed with movie making. Later in life, last six films, five films, Tom Cruise has realized, I'm an action star.

No more Rock of Ages. No more eyes wide shut. No more Vanilla Sky. I do action movies. the more I run, the more people go watch. And that's what he is. And that is great. Older athletes could be a quarterback, could be a point guard.

They're more consistent. You don't get the highs and the lows. SGA, I mean, Ant still has volatility to his game. SGA is oatmeal for breakfast. He's a BLT for lunch. And those puppies last forever. All this criticism of SGA is laughable. The guy can hit freeze, great ball handler, uses his length brilliantly, can hit mid-range.

There was a play, I think it was in the second quarter, where he bodied a guy a foot taller, Rudy Gobert, and used the left hand, his off-hand to score off the glass. It was an incredible move, but he wasn't dunking over anybody. He was using his body and using his length, and that's what he does. And it's not SGA's job to entertain us. That's not his job. This whole free throw merchant, he averages 8.8 free throws a game as an MVP. I went and looked this morning at LeBron's MVP seasons. You know what he averaged?

Eight free throws a game. Be honest. This is about SGA's game isn't fun. And the media and the fans, they prefer a Westbrook or a Derek Rose or a Stevie Francis or a Marbury or a John Waller and Iverson. Those are fun and they're dynamic. So is aunt. SGA's not. He's just consistently great.

The tool belt is completely full. I see a pro. It's like the quarterback who stepped to the line and is great at pre-snap. He's done his homework. This guy has a left hand, a right-hand, range, ball handling, consistency machine, and talk about a guy that uses his length. Yesterday, SGA passed Michael Jordan for the most 30-point games in his season in which you were the MVP. And his scoring isn't just about him.

The Thunder are now 13 and 1 this season when he scores 40 plus points. That wasn't the case with Kobe. Sometimes with Kobe, the more he scored, the less everybody else touched it and was involved. His scoring connects with winning. And the whole free throw merchant thing. You just don't like what it looks like. I understand. It's not flashy.

It's not cool. But it wins, and it's consistent. And here's SGA after. I try not to worry too much about scoring or making plays or whatever it was. I tried to just, like, lose myself in the competition, be aggressive, pick my spots. And he does pick his spots. Series is now over. It's three to one, but it's over.

Okay, so I thought this was interesting. I have said this is the hill I'm going to die on that Chodor Sanders over the course of the next 10 months will be the starting quarterback for the Cleveland Browns. I thought he was underdrafted. I don't think he's John L. Way. I don't think he's Peyton Manning or even Eli. But I think he's the best quarterback they have and it'll just take him time. And I think he's a good kid. By and large, good kid.

But he said something yesterday to Cleveland.com. He said, 99% of the online scrutiny is because of my dad. And he is exactly right. That's why it was really a mistake when dad went on shows and said things like this. Have you told him privately who you would like for him to play for? It's not like that. It's not like who I would like for him to play for. It's a couple teams that I won't allow him to play for.

So it's not like that. But this is my profession. I know what's behind the curtain. We ain't got to get back there for me to understand what's behind the curtain and what's not prominent for my son. I'm not doing it. And if he doesn't listen to you. Who?

Yeah, bad. NFL owners see that. GM see clips of that. And they're like, no thanks. Well, what about John Elway? His dad wasn't on TV telling teams. Don't draft my son. Okay.

And John Elway is the greatest quarterback prospect out of college ever. To this day, ever. The more talent, the more leverage in every walk of life. Watching the NFL draft this year on both ESPN and the NFL network was maddening. I can understand why he's dropping. What in the world is happening? Dad is happening. That's why I like the tact that Arch Manning and his family's doing.

they're staying in the shadows. That's where all the real power is in life. Get out in the sun and get burned. Dion was in the sun. Dion spent too much time on television talking. Doesn't mean Dion's a bad guy. He's a great recruiter. He's done wonderful things for Colorado.

He's an all-time great player. But I have said this over and over, and I will repeat it. Dad's, stop talking. Nobody cares. Quarterback Dad has become pageant mom. your heart is in the right place you have good intent you are hurting your sons

Nico Iamaliava remember that Tennessee he cost his son millions of dollars and now he's at a second tier college football program instead of the Tennessee volunteer so it's this is a cautionary tale

the NFL controls television networks it's the only sport that tells the networks what they will pay for the rights and then has the right, mid-contract, to step in and change it. Yeah, they're not going to have dads tell them where their son's going to play. And so this is not, I understand the devotion, the love, and the 15 years you've put into your

son, pageant mom quarterback dad. But he's got it right. Shadoor's got it right. It's dad. It's pops. He got in the way. And I also understand the heart and affection. and the loyalty of the dads.

Like, I get it. I've said this before to people. I think I am, I can be really objective about everything in the world, except my kids. I can be objective, I think mostly about my wife, about my life, about my career, about, not my kids. It's just different. And I understand it's tough. But I like that Shadur knows, it's kind of pops. And we'll see it more and more and more and more.

And I know, I hear, what about Eli Manning? A, Eli Manning was a better prospect. Also, his brother was in the league as an MVP at the same position. And, oh, yeah, his dad had, you know, been a brilliantly talented, albeit in a horrible franchise quarterback. The Manning's a royal family in America, certainly at the quarterback position. And I don't remember Arch Manning going on TV. They did a lot of their stuff behind the scenes, which I'm always okay with. stay out of the sun you're going to get a sunburn but on the SPF 50 do your do your maneuvering behind the scenes where people can claim you said things but you have culpability but when you go on television and exclaim not doing that we're not going there you are talking directly to the people the companies the corporations the owners and gms who are going to draft you and i think it just did not play well at all all right so

J-Mack, we got a lot of things going on. Ant did not play. I mean, mostly was invisible. Also, we did something yesterday at the end of the show. I talked to the staff after the show, and I said, I want to work on something tomorrow. Aaron Rogers on our show yesterday had a really interesting moment where he was outside talking to a bunch of people.

And I think sometimes you have to be careful about those soundbites because sometimes it's performative. If you're like outside, you and I are doing an outside show, you start playing to the crowd, and you say things that you probably that are in ballet, You're kind of performing for the crowd. But Aaron Rogers did say something recently to a group of people that's on tape that hinted to me that the retirement thing is a greater than 50-50 chance.

And we played that bite yesterday. I want to get to that and other things when we come back. Be sure to catch live editions of the herd weekdays in noon Eastern 9 a.m. Pacific on Fox Sports Radio, FS1, and the IHeart Radio app. Hey, it's us, the Jonas Brothers. And guess what? We have some big news. What's the news, name? Huge news. We created our own podcast called Hey Jonas. We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to it. We're the first people to do podcasts.

Pretty, yeah, pretty wide range of podcasts throughout there. But this one's extra special. So how do we actually come up with a name Hey Jonas, guys? I honestly don't remember. I think it was on a call about what we should call it. And, oh, we were thinking I'm originally calling it one of the early names of our band before Jonas Brothers. This is how you guys remember it going down? Yes. I have a very different memory of this. We were talking about a thing, a bit for the podcast,

where people could call in and say, hey, Jonas. And then I wrote down on my little notepad, Hey Jonas, and offered it up as a potential title for the podcast. But thanks for remembering that, guys. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it.

Another podcast from some SNL, late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and Friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter.

Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. The French Open is one of the toughest tests in tennis, and I know firsthand because I competed there myself. I'm Renee Stubbs, and on the Renee Stubbs Tennis podcast, I'm breaking down everything happening at Roland Garris. Every match, every upset, and what it really takes to win on clay. Jenchian win.

I mean, she went down at three to Rabakina, but I'm delighted. She's an outsider to win the French for me. And she likes Clay. Listen, Lina Rabakina is arguably the best player in the world. right now and I actually can win on any surface because if she's serving, well, good luck. Consider this your court side seat to the French Open. Listen to the Renee Stubbs tennis podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHeart Women's Sports. Imagine an Olympics where doping

is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Nick Wright, 45 minutes from now. So Anthony Edwards had one shot in the first quarter, 13 total shots in the game. And he said after, you know, I didn't remember, get enough shots to judge my game. Listen, Jaden McDaniels or the T-Wolves had more shots than Ant. That can't happen. You can't be the face of the league and get one shot in the first quarter of the biggest

game of the playoffs. Can't do it. Not interested in excuses. Michael may have been getting tackled by the Pistons. He didn't have one-shot quarters, even when he had good teammates. Because basketball players enter the NBA at 18, 19, 20 years old, you just have to wait. There are stages of maturity, and I think personally and professionally, Ant, I'm kind of waiting for him to graduate to the adult consistent stage.

He was mostly a non-factor last night. So you can take him out of his game. Everybody knows it. Throw a bunch of bodies at him and make him make kind of advanced reads, and he's going to struggle. It's a lot like a young star quarterback who's not great at pre-snap stuff. Like it takes Brady six, seven, eight years. Mahomes admit the light didn't go on until year three.

So you can just throw a bunch of stuff at SGA. He's 26, and he sees it, and he can read it. You can throw anything now at Mahomes. Four years ago, he was a little confused. Four years ago, he had to add lib instead of getting pre-snap blitzes out of the way. And so I think sometimes Ant relies too much on these sensational plays in his athleticism. And he's great, but he's not consistently half-to-half-great. And I'm looking at some of the numbers this morning.

The other thing that really hurts is that Oklahoma City's defense is not only great, it's historically great. It's deep, it's young, it's twitchy, it's almost collegiate and it's energy, and they throw a bunch of bodies at him. But let's defend Ant here. Yokic at 23. That's what Ant is. Ant's 23. Yokic at 23 got his first MVP. Ant at 23.

Played for a losing team in Oklahoma City. So Michael Jordan, in the 80s, before his game was more than just raw scoring, Michael Jordan was having some really bad halves and quarters against the pistons. Like it happens, it's just in the NFL, a guy comes in with three, four, five years experience. He's got a more refined game. Ants isn't. And so he talked about his night only 13 shots after. I don't really look at it like I struggled. I didn't get enough shots to say I struggled.

So that might be how you guys look at it. But yeah, I don't struggle at all. It's just I make the right play. I guess I urge that I want to get the ball in the rim, put it up there, but don't want to take bad shots and get your team out of rhythm. So just playing the game the right way. Yeah, I mean, and LeBron said that. I'm playing the game the right way.

But LeBron would end up with 34 points and 13 assists and occasionally pass up big shots because he was playing the game the right way. And it's not the distributor of LeBron, and LeBron wasn't settling for 13 shots. You may not have trusted LeBron in his prime at the free throw line or even when he was young, but you trusted the productivity. And it's not there. He is a highly athletic, a lot of fun, super dynamic, unlimited ceiling,

but at this point, we're all kind of waiting, and it will come, and it will come soon, but he's not quite there yet. He's 23, SGA is 26, and you can see the difference in consistency. J. Mack with the news. Turn on the news. This is the herd line news. All right, Colin, let's bust right into it. Knicks Pacers, big one tonight, game four,

and you saw Rick Carlisle starting to plant some seeds, maybe some playing some mind games with Tom Tibino. Interesting down the stretch in game three, Colin. Jalen Brunson was benched due to foul trouble. The Knicks had to play Dilan Wright-Landry sham at two guys who only play in blowouts. Listen to what Rick Carlisle said about the Knicks down the stretch in the press conference. Well, they had a lot of their better defenders in the game in the second half. And that makes it harder.

And so, you know, you've got to grind defensively to get rebounds, and there's a different element of grinding when you're going against their better guys. And so we're going to have to do better. in a lot of those situations. That's good stuff. That's like Phil Jackson level chess right there. Basically, hey, hey, they were playing good defenders down the stretch. What do you want us to do?

Jailin Brunson was on the bench. That's what he's alluding to. I mean, Kyle, that is a major shot at Tibado. And you wonder, you know, Tiburl has lost a bunch of big games in his career, never really broken through and won the big one. And you wonder if he's going to think, hey, we can't get stopped. We've got to pull Brunson. I can't imagine that.

But everything's got to be in play, game four. You can't lose this. Your game is your game. And we talked about this at the end of yesterday's show. Halliburton's a better defender than Brunson, a better distributor, not the closer. But when Halliburton's not playing for the Pacers, they're not the same offense. They can disintegrate very quickly. There are moments fairly irregularly.

When Brunson's off the floor, the Knicks defend better and Cat flourishes. So the point is the Knicks are not a championship team. They have two major flaws. They're not a championship team. You can't have your two stars be bad defensively, especially when OKC defensively is maybe the best team ever. They're not a championship team. So what you have to do, because Brunson is your quarterback,

is to find a better complementary piece. This is all a lesson. You have to learn the NBA is steps. Last year, the Knicks weren't close. This year, they're kind of close. they need another tweak because it's real clear what Carlisle is saying and what teams are doing. Listen, they're more than close, Colin. They're in the final four here. They got a legitimate shot. Should be up to one, but I won't go there with that freakish game one collapse.

Listen, man, they went out and got Mikhail Bridges, who's a very good wing defender. They got O. O.G. Anerobie, who's a very good wing defender. They've got guys. Brunson just has to not foul. And, you know, as a defender, I know you're saying he's terrible, but we saw this with Steph Curry and that Warriors were able to get through and win two titles without Kevin Durant, right? 15 and 22. Steph's better than Brunson. You know, there's a gap between Steph's game and Brunson's game.

Okay, he's a little better, yeah, but like... Yeah, I know. He's a top 10, 12 player of all time. Brunson's not a top 40 player of all time, 50 players. Young, come on. I can't believe you've gone from loving Brunson to, well, he's a terrible defender. I can love Joe Burrow and say one more big injury and I have to draft another quarterback. I'm a grown-up.

I can contextualize stuff. I can think two things. I love Caleb Williams, but he better be good by mid-October. Two things can be true. I don't have to take a side on Brunson. He's the best quarterback in New York. I love him, but he doesn't defend. You can pick on him.

And he needs the ball. He's not an off-ball player. SGA's big scoring, everybody feels like they're touching it. Halliburton doesn't even have to score. He creates pace and touches. Brunson's game is his game. He's got to score. He's got to have the ball.

Therefore, you have to figure out guys that play. We've seen this before, by the way. Westbrook needed the ball. OKC. Eventually, Durant said, I can't play with this. I can't do it. So, like, everybody's got their game. Brunson has his.

It's the front office's job to find the right pieces. James Harden, not a great defender, an elite offensive talent. Right? there was another one that I had thought of, but essentially you've got to just figure it out as a coach, that's your job. Hey, we got here, we won 50 plus games. We're in the Easter conference.

Also, also, remember, Brunson's not a baby. He played significantly in college, big minutes playing defense. He came out as an old college player, and under Tibbs practice time in minutes, he's an old 28. He's 28 going on 30. Between Villanova and New York,

those are hard grinding minutes, practices in games. So Brunson's 28, but he doesn't have, this is not like Mike Dan Tony's offense where you don't even practice defense. That's not what the Knicks are. People don't want to hear this, but Luca Donchitz got to the finals as a terrible defender.

They just got him room protectors. You know, I don't want to be smarted the name of Isaac Thomas. Luca Donchage is a much different level player than Brunson. Like, Lucas is going to go down, yeah, he's going to go down arguably the top five score of all time. He's a totally different player. Isaiah Thomas of the Pistons, remember. It wasn't a great defender, but Joe Dumars, they paired him with Dumars,

who would then lock up clay covering up for Steph. Like, it can be done. Knicks are fine. They're winning tonight, by the way. Just want to put that on your radar. What's the line? Plus two. I got Knicks plus two, and I am back betting on this one. I like the Knicks in this one, Colin. I'll take the Pacers minus two. All right, let's go on to the next story. Let's go to baseball again. Show Hey, Otani. Boy, Colin, look what he did last night against the New York Mets. First pitch of the game. bow gone Otani now with 19 home runs

leading the league Aaron Judge with 18 Otani's on pace for 55 homers and 35 steals last year he had 54 homers and 59 steals I mean I don't see who's more valuable

than this kind of he's like the LeBron you should just give him the MVP every single year and nobody's going to say it damn the crowd shots are interesting I'm always kind of fascinated to watch him. He's in Cleveland. So I'm fascinated to watch how many Dodger jerseys there are.

It's a Caitlin Clark effect where it's like when Otani goes on the road, I think the Dodgers leave the baseball in road attendants. It used to be the Yankees for years and years with Arod and Jeter and the bombers. But it's interesting when you watch a Dodger Road game. Look at how many Dodger blue jerseys are in the crowd. It's crazy, even in Cleveland. Remember Curry? Back when I lived in Pennsylvania,

We went to a Sixers Warriors game. This was before, like, this was 2014-15. I was in on Curry then. I had my kids outfitted in Steph Curry jerseys. I thought they would be like standing out. Tons of Curry jerseys everywhere in the Lower Bowl in Philly. And it's like Curry, Caitlin Clark, and I would agree with you, Otani, just transcendent superstars, Colin. Final story is C.D. Lamb is on the Cowboys, obviously, in the superstar.

And Jerry Jones has paired him with George Pickens. Cidie and George Pickens are now working out in OTAs, and Lamb talked about how the new edition has been. We compliment each other very well. Obviously, he's a tall figure, obviously. His ability to go up and get the ball at the highest point is amazing. I don't think anybody in the league that can really, I mean, he's up there with the guys in the league, you know,

as far as 50-50 balls, deep threat, anything as far as running routes, it's pretty good. It's good to see. Listen, he'll be a great receiver on a six-win team. Whoa, whoa, whoa. Wait, Colin, I thought I changed your mind last week. I don't know if we could pull up the Cowboys schedule. It's favorable enough early.

No, it's not. C.D. and Pickens can start to cook. And I'm not changing my tune and saying they're going to go to the playoffs or anything, but they're more than a six-win team with that offense. Now, the defense, the offensive line, there are still some lingering questions. But the schedule early is favorable, Colin, for the Cowboys. Let's not write them on. It was favorable last year for the Steelers early, and then what happened to the Steelers late.

The truth comes out. In the NFL, the truth, the truth is Thanksgiving on. By the way, Tua, sunny weather looks like a different quarterback. Tua in December, January on the road, is a different quarterback. The truth of the NFL. In the NBA, the truth is the playoffs. In the NFL, the truth is post- Thanksgiving. I would agree they're not going to the playoffs, but they can, again, from a gambler's perspective,

I think there's going to be some value on Dallas early because everybody's down on them. The national narrative is they're not going to the playoffs. We would agree. But the schedule early, you're going to surprise some people. You know Pickens playing for a big contract, right? Yeah. Yeah, they're young. Six and 11, but a lot of fun to watch in October is what they'll be.

J. Mack with the news. Well, that's the news. And thanks for stopping by. The Herd Lie News. So this is something I find really interesting. So Cam Newton, who by the way, I like him as a podcaster more than I did as a quarterback. I think he's a really good podcaster. He was fine at quarterback.

He was just a little flashy and too inconsistent. But he's a good podcaster. He says interesting things. He doubles down on the criticism of Caleb Williams being entitled. Now, Boomer Ossiason, as a former excellent NFL quarterback, got to a good podcast. The Super Bowl was an MVP at one point. Boomer Ossison had called him on New York Radio. Caleb Williams, he said, you know, the entitlement is breathtaking.

And so Cam Newton said yesterday, it's a strong take, but he's not wrong. We're living in the golden era of entitlement. So coming from Cam, it's kind of funny, but I'm not going to take any shots, whatever. Can we just be totally honest about Caleb Williams? If he got Sean Payton as a coach as a rookie, none of this story was. would be here. If he got a competent, offensive staff,

this wouldn't be a story. I do not see entitlement with young quarterbacks. Even Shador Sanders, it's more his dad. Bo Nix, Jaden Daniels, Drake May, Michael Penix. I'm blown away

by how lucky the NFL is at the focus, the commitment, and the maturity of all these young quarterbacks. I'm blown away by it. I mean, I certainly was this mature at 23 years old. You go look at Mahomes and Alan and Burrow

and Lamar and Herbert and Tua. They're like grown-ups in their early 20s. It's amazing. Yes, Caleb Williams and his father were deeply concerned about the Bears' historical offensive ineptitude. I don't know if you watched the Bears last year, but they were proven 100% correct

on all of their concerns. That's not called entitlement. That's called doing your homework, assessing accurately an assignment, understanding the temperature of the room. Even the bears, by firing people through the season, acknowledged, we're not doing this kid any favors. The bears acknowledged by all their firings, it's not the kid. It's the grownups around the kid.

So I get to regularly meet these young football players, these quarterbacks, a Bo Nicks, I'll meet or a Caleb Williams. I never think of them as immature and entitled, ever. In fact, I would say the last entitled quarterback, and you know who it is because I said he was undraftable, was Johnny Mansell. I said I wouldn't draft Baker Mayfield,

but I didn't say he was undraftable to the league. I said, Baker needs to grow up. Baker is a top 20 quarterback since he arrived in this league. He's talented, and he's matured. I didn't think Baker was entitled. He was a hard worker. Johnny Mansell's the quarterback that was entitled. He now admits it as he's matured.

Johnny Manzell, the money signed, didn't do the homework, not watching film. That's entitled. Caleb Williams and his dad had concerns. And I also think you have to consider culturally what has happened. Caleb Williams was our first collegiate NIL superstar. He was making more than everybody on. USC staff not name Lincoln Riley. Do you think at 22 if you were making five million dollars a year you would always make every day the best decision? Or maybe

Caleb Williams and his dad saw what Matt Stafford went through in Detroit and how it would have crushed an otherwise brilliant career. Can you imagine if Stafford went to McVeigh or a shatahan or an Andy Reid out of college? We wouldn't now be debating if he's a top 20 quarterback ever. He would be a top five quarterback ever. So where you land matters, it is not entitlement to be deeply concerned. Now, I do think, and I know this because I reported a year ago, he and his dad were thinking of figuring out a way not to go there. But in the end, Caleb didn't want to push the nuclear option. Put his head down, I'm going to work my way through it. But I've seen it. I've seen

entitled. I've seen entitled. I've seen Johnny Mansell. I've seen over the top. I just disagree with Boomer Osceyeson and Cam Newton. I regularly get opportunities to meet these young professional college to professional quarterbacks. Even Baker Mayfield, though I thought he needed to grow up, Baker's a good guy, hard worker, some real leadership moxie. And that was a guy I was critical of. Tim Tebow was a guy. I didn't like his gang. but he was mature and focused and committed. So I don't buy the entitlement thing. I've seen an entitlement.

That's not it. I think multiple times over my career, I've said this, we're very lucky how often the star of the NFL is a Brady, is a Manning, is a Mahomes, what looks like a Jaden Daniels. like you'd want them to be your son. You'd want them to be part of your family. They're so committed, so driven, despite the fact they're getting ridiculed, hot takes, the culture of opinion.

I don't see the commitment. Cam Newton, though, he sees it. We are living in the golden era of entitlement, and I hate that for sports as a whole, right? Whether it's the parent or the player. You may not like the words, but behind what Boomer Assison is saying is some truth. And that's a lot of merit to the thinking of how a lot of guys who have came through this league are in the league feel about guys coming into the league. Yeah, I mean, if the culture of the NFL has always been, the league is bigger than any player, including Brady.

Brady left, ratings run out. far left ratings went up like i i do not see football culture in america you are coached hard basketball culture aAU culture can be a little you know get your thing get your bag get your stuff a little bit too much for me and and and and and really great coaches like cur have question if aAU makes our basketball players better but football culture in america is not about entitlement. It's about putting in the work, putting in the time, being kind of strangely obsessed, and I don't see it. Coming up next, Aaron Rogers, it sounded like retirement is on the table. That's coming up. Be sure to catch live editions of the herd weekdays in noon Eastern 9 a.m. Pacific.

Hey, it's Steve Kavino. And I'm Rich Davis. And together we're Kavino and Rich on Fox Sports Radio. You can catch us weekdays from 5 to 7 p.m. Eastern, 2 to 4.5. 4 Pacific on Fox Sports Radio and of course the I Heart Radio app. Why should you listen to Covino and Rich? We talk about everything, life, sports, relationships, what's going on in the world? We have a lot of fun talking about the stories behind the stories in the world of sports and pop culture. Stories that, well, other shows don't seem to have the time to discuss. And the fact that we've been friends for the last 20 years and still work together,

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And if you miss any of the live show, just search Covino and Rich, wherever you get your podcast and, of course, on social media. That's Cabino and Rich. Hey, it's us to Jonas Brothers, and guess what? We have some big news. What's the news, huge news? We created our own podcast called, Hey Jonas. We invented a podcast?

Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to... We're the first people to do podcasts. Pretty, yeah, pretty wide range of podcasts throughout there. But this one's extra special. So how did we actually come up with a name, Hey Jonas, guys? I honestly don't remember. I think it was on a call about what we should call it.

Oh, we were thinking I'm originally calling it one of the early names of our band before Jonas Brothers. This is how you guys remember it going down? Yes. I have a very different memory of this. We were talking about a thing. a bit for the podcast for people could call in and say, hey Jonas. And then I wrote down on my little notepad, Hey Jonas, and offered it up as a potential title for the podcast.

But thanks for remembering that, guys. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman helped make you funny. This week, my guest, S&L's Mikey Day and headwriter, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform?

We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The French Open is one of the toughest tests in tennis, and I know firsthand because I competed there myself. I'm Renee Stubbs, and on the Renee Stubbs tennis podcast, I'm Bray. breaking down everything happening at Roland Garris. Every match, every upset, and what it really takes to win on Clay. Jen she won.

I mean, she went down at three to Rabakina, but I'm delighted. She's an outsider to win the French for me. And she likes Clay. Listen, Lina Rabakina is arguably the best player in the world right now, and I actually can win on any surface. Because if she's serving, well, good luck. Consider this your court side seat to the French Open. Listen to the Renee Stubbs tennis podcast on the

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stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Sunday, the fastest racing on Earth, gets the streets of the Motor City for the Detroit Grand Prix. The IndyCar season continues Sunday at 1230 Eastern on Fox. So Matt Hasselbeck yesterday on our show

assured us that Aaron Rogers is going to be a Pittsburgh Steeler. May very well be a Pittsburgh Steeler, I don't know. He was, recently he was doing a Q&A in front of people, Aaron was. And again, when you're performative in front of people, you may say things that in the moment gets the crowd worked up, or I'm not holding Aaron to every word of a public podcast or a public talk. People say things. But it does sound like there's a story out there.

I think Aaron said he would play for $10 million. That tells me that money's not driving him. He also said recently, I'm not going to play for the Saints. I don't want to live in Indianapolis. That tells me where he plays matters. And this sounds like he's not that far from retirement. I've thought about that.

And I don't understand what the reason for that is. You know, at the same time, I grew up a Niner fan, and most of my favorite players retired as a Niner. So I understand the cool thing about it. But if I didn't do it, would that make a difference in how I'm viewed in the Packers' eyes? There's a lot of love for me and how I feel about the team. If I do or if I don't, I don't think it should make a difference. I'm not sure yet.

If they approached me about it, I probably would. Yeah, Aaron's saying, you know, if they approach me about playing, I probably would. Well, they have Jordan Love. So you're saying you'd be a backup. And so you're saying you would close your career, and you're still a starting quarterback in this league. you've aged, but you're still a starting quarterback. So you're basically saying is I'd go be a backup for Green Bay. Wow, that's something.

You'd play for $10 million. That's something. I don't want to play in Louisiana. That's something. These are your words. But I was saying when the show ended yesterday, I said, you know, there's two quarterbacks in the history of great quarterbacks. I've never quite known what to do with, Dan Marino and Aaron Rogers. Because whereas baseball is about stats, stats are really important for baseball people.

and basketball style and culture is really important. In football, it's about winning big games. That's why Elway, who didn't throw as pretty a ball as Marino, is here, and Marino's much lower. John got to the big game more, even if he lost it. And to me, there's always been four or five things when you start counting everything for the great quarterbacks. I want to know your Super Bowl appearances and wins. Don't have to win all of them. I'm not looking for six for six.

I want division titles. So you at least dominate your division. You may have somebody like Brady or Peyton Manning in your conference, but you at least dominate your division. I obviously want a lot of productivity. I want your playoff record. Those are your biggest games, whether you win all of them, but I want you to have some impressive playoff resume stuff.

And I'll count MVP's which are a personal award, but they mean something. It means a high level of play amongst your peers. I will not count passer rating. Tua and Jimmy Garoppolo, Deshawn Watson and Russell Wilson, have a significantly higher passer rating than Tom, Brady, Peyton Manning, and Josh Allen. I know Aaron has the best passer rating of all time. I do not care. Passer rating does not matter. It's like NBA coach of the year.

Phil Jackson has won. It's an irrelevant award. I think the people who win it put the plaque in their garage behind the rakes and the brooms. it just doesn't matter. And pass-er rating means nothing to me. MVP's signify amongst your peers. You are the best that season. So that matters.

But when you look at Marino and Aaron Rogers, they're not close. Aaron's been to one Super Bowl, had one great playoff run, 11 and 10 in the playoffs. Division titles, yes. MVP's impressive. But what do I do with that? Where do I put that?

Because when you put him in that group of all-time great quarterbacks, Brady, Montana, Elway Mahomes, Peyton, Bradshaw, Farr, Aikman, Young, not even Marino matches up. And I've said this before. Well, Marino and Aaron are the same. Really talented. may have the two best releases I've ever seen. Aesthetically pleasing.

But relative to talent, they didn't win enough. I mean, Dan Marino had Don Shula, arguably the best coach of all time, still didn't dominate his division. One great playoff run and had good teammates. Aaron always had a good old line, always had an offensive coach. In much of Aaron's career, the lions were awful. the bears were egregiously bad and Minnesota was never great. Although they had some great players, they were kind of good. And yet Kirk Cousins went 500 the minute he got into that division against Aaron.

So I've never understood exactly if Aaron retired today, it's, again, this is not basketball. It's not about style. It's not about culture. It's winning big games. If you think about Aaron Rogers, all-time great. playoff moments. One jumps out. The Jared Cook throw against Dallas. It may be as good as anything I've ever seen. But Eli Manning, who I didn't put on that board, has two of those, David, Tyree and Mario Manningham, and he's got two Super Bowls over Brady and Belichick. Manning's also got,

what do I do? What do I do with Eli? He's like, Philip Rivers, if Philip Rivers won Super Bowls. What do I do? So, and I've said this with both Marino and Aaron Rogers. It's hard to quantify. Super Bowls, division titles,

productivity, winning big games, iconic moments. They're everything else. I'll give them the MVP's. Those matter. But I was looking at passer rating this morning. I just, it's nonsense. And this is,

And I've always, my belief has always been Aaron at the end of his career played to protect his passer rating. If he threw an interception or two, he shut it down. He played to protect that all-time number one passer rating. And it's great. It's just an inch above Mahomes and Lamar Jackson. But Peyton Manning's is 16th. Kurt Warner's is 19th. Josh Allen is 23rd. In fact, Derek Carr and Josh Allen are neck and neck on passer rating. I can't count that. That can't be a thing. If you don't have, if you have one NBA finals appearance as a coach,

but you've won the coach of the year four times, I'm putting you below Phil Jackson. I'm sorry. I got to put you below. Well, Phil had Michael Jordan. Doug Collins had him. Stan Ulbrook hit him. Well, I mean, Phil had Kobe Bryant.

So did Del Harris. I don't want to hear it. His New York next day may have been a mess. I don't want to hear it. All right, Jay Mack. So Nick Wright is on at the top of the hour. I will. Hold, hold.

I cannot let some of that slide. You know I'm out on Rogers because he screwed the jets. He was terrible. He got it. Blubble. That's all right. But I do have to put in some context. Like, Eli Manning was great in two Super Bowl games.

Two games. Aaron Rogers has been great for seasons. Yes. What matters more to you a 16 game season sample size where he won four MVP? or a game for Eli Manning where he won one Super Bowl. Well, it's obvious. Aaron is rated, and I would rate him higher than Eli Manning as a quarterback. And that's where it gets difficult because it's like, are we dinging Rogers too much for not getting to enough Super Bowl's not winning enough and pumping up Eli because of, you know, three playoff runs?

I think Eli Manning is absolutely fairly categorized as a Hall of Famer, but not a top 50s. quarterback. Nobody thinks he's a top 15 quarterback, but you can't beat Belichick and Brady in their prime twice, have two iconic throws and go, well, I don't know he's Philip Rivers. No, he's not. So nobody is saying, I would never insinuate that errands below Eli. So obviously, regular season MVP's and stats and productivity matter a lot. But again, we're talking all time top 10, 12 guys. everything is something. Nothing's everything, but everything is something. So, I mean, my take is with Aaron and Marino,

if you're going to count them up against Brady and Montana and Elway and Mahomes, and you're going to get dinged for getting to one Super Bowl. So do you have Elway above Aaron Rogers? Yes, yes, yes, yes, absolutely. I think, yeah, I don't even, again, I grew up, you know, I'm watching John Elway's career. I was a Seahawk fan, right? Like I saw him live.

I saw John Elway leadership, fourth quarter comebacks. I think he's one of a short group. Back, our two next. Hey guys, it's us. The Jonas Brothers. I'm Joe. I'm Kevin.

And I'm Nick. And guess what? We created our own podcast called, Hey, Jonas. We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to it. We're the first people to do podcasts.

We get to ask other people. people questions because we're sick and tired of being asked questions. Well, sick and tired is a strong way to put it, but, you know, tired and sick. Tired and sick. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite.

Unhumor me with Robert Smigel and Friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel helped an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the Iheart radio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What's up, fam? It's Isaiah Thomas. And I'm C.J. Toledano. It's our favorite time of the year on our podcast point game, the playoffs. We're digging into the biggest surprises of the season. And I'm looking back on some of my greatest playoff moments. If we didn't talk ever again, I was fine. You just understood.

That's how personal it got. Wow. Then after that game seven, Marquis coming to you, he's like, you know I love you, dog. You know, it's all love. This was just playoffs. This was just basketball.

So listen to Point Game on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Every family has its secrets. But what happens when you discover that your dad has been living a double life? That is not the look of an innocent man. Is everyone lying to me about who they are? I felt such desperation. I felt it was what I had to do.

Listen to Deep Cover the Family Man on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed human.