The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Hour 1 - The Lakers and the Knicks

Episode Date: March 7, 2025

The Lakers and Knicks are heading in opposite directions after LA's wild OT win over New York. Steph Curry continued his marvelous road trip in the Warriors win over the Nets in Brooklyn Colin doubles down on his opinion of Jayson Tatum Thoughts on Mark Cuban's comments on the Mavericks trading Luka Doncic   Guest: Ric BucherSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Radio app by searching Fox Sports Radio or FSR. You're listening to Fox Sports Radio. Here we go. It is a Friday, another amazing night for LeBron James, Luca, Steph Curry. You're trying to put the old guys to bed. They're staying up late. They're closing up shop late.

Good show today. Buckeye coach Ryan Day next hour, Dionne Dawkins, Rick Buecker. We got a lot of stuff going on today. So, yeah. You know where they care about the NBA? L.A. and New York. That's pretty good last night, right? Pretty good.

Yeah, that was pretty good. Well, we had said yesterday this was going to be one of the 10 to 12 games during the regular season that's going to feel like a playoff game and that's what it felt like. And it really was kind of symbolic of where both teams are at. The Knicks lost even though they outplayed the Lakers. So now the Knicks are 0-10 against Boston, Cleveland, Golden State, Lakers,

and OKC, and they outplayed them, and they get beat by about 50 in the game. Now, last night, Rui didn't play. Austin Reeves, not 100%, so they were more fully staffed in New York, and they outplayed the Lakers. But Jalen Brunson had to play out of his mind. All your starters for the Knicks are playing 40 minutes, and the Lakers didn't play particularly well, and they won. And this goes back to something we've talked about Tibbs and the Villanova guys and Jalen Brunson.

culture only gets you so far. I mean, Harbaugh created a new culture with the Chargers, and then they went to the playoffs. Pittsburgh Steelers last decade. Great culture. Can't score in big games. Culture has limitations. And Carmelo Anthony talked about something last night.

He said basically what Luca is providing for LeBron now, these great up-the-court passes, is what LeBron was doing to AD. So it's really freed LeBron James games. up last night. Only Luca and LeBron played particularly well. But I just think Austin Reeves, Luca, LeBron, you have three play initiators. One can be bad every time. In New York, Jalen Brunson's bad, good luck winning. Jalen Brunson's great, good luck winning against good teams. And the sign of a very good team, and you can no longer deny it, sorry Charles Barkley with the Lakers, you don't even have to play well to be a good team. And LeBron makes

Everybody better. I mean, Jackson Hayes does not have an NBA move. He does not have an NBA post move. He's a lob guy, and he's shooting 73% since the All-Star game, the deadline. 73%. He's an NBA guy. He, to me, he's a skinnier version of DeAndre Jordan. He's a lob guy.

And when you get LeBron and Luca, who are tremendous passers, there is great value there. But he's not a true big. How about Gabe Vincent? Who? Gabe Vincent. It's huge threes in overtime. Again, what you watched last night is really the truth about both these teams. The Lakers now are so good and have so many offensive weapons that Rui cannot play.

Austin Reeves doesn't play well. Team doesn't play particularly well. Luca didn't shoot that well. And they beat a very good Knicks team where all their starters played 40 minutes and Brunson was unbelievable. So I think, you know, and JJ Reddick, clearly, J.J. LeBron, and Luca are speaking the same language because it's very much a team that goes with a hot hand. It's very much a team offensively that is tweaking and kind of going with the flow.

This thing, it was a great, great NBA regular season game, and it was a team that absolutely can get to the finals. I don't think they can beat Boston. We'll see Saturday night in a preview. Laker Celtics. We'll see. I don't think they can beat Boston. I don't think they can beat Cleveland. Maybe, but I don't think so. Two best teams in the east. West is much, much better top to bottom. But it was a game between a team, I think, can get to the finals and challenge for a title against a team that needs another big piece to even get to the finals. Let's be honest. Last night, Nick shot 23% from threes. The Nick shot 39% from the floor. And that's with Brunson going off and a healthy, unit. They're just missing a piece. And again, I said this yesterday, it's great clarity if you're a

Knicks fan. I don't want to hear about officials. You're 0 for 10. It'd be one thing if you were five into five against the best teams. You're 0 for 10. And the Lakers are just getting better. I wonder if the Knicks are getting slightly worse because of all the minutes Tibs has the starters playing, and here's the coach after. Came down to the stretch, you know, a lot of tough plays that we couldn't get to a loose ball, you know, things like that. And oftentimes that's the difference. So, but overall, I thought, you know, the first three and a half quarters, I thought, very, very good. So obviously we have to close out better.

Yeah. And the other thing is the Knicks really fight, scratch, and claw for baskets. They really do. They work their tails off. They play hard every night. Did you notice last night how often the Knicks? the Lakers, they get kind of easy hoops. Like it's not a very good set.

They don't quite look organized. And they just get baskets. And again, last night, just like, hey, Gabe Vint, it's open. Take a shot. LeBron talked about that after the win and overtime about just everybody on this roster. Luca and LeBron are the stars. Everybody matters, though. There's no such thing as non-key players on this team.

Everybody is key. You know, and everybody steps on the floor as a role. And they go in and match that. and I thought our bench gave was a great lift once again. And Gabe was, you know, single him out. He was spectacular. You know, his play both on the defensive end, and obviously with a shooting, and we need it. So we'll get a little bit of a preview, potentially, of the NBA finals.

I have Boston. I think they're going to meet either the Lakers or O.K.C. in the finals. But this idea, Charles Barkley, I'm sorry, Lakers are good. They're more interesting. LeBron and Luca is magical. It's only getting better. Luca is still not shooting great. He's still, he was so inactive for so long,

I don't think he has his legs quite under him yet. He looks a little lighter, a little quicker than he did a week ago. That's what I can see. Not shooting great. He's having trouble first step, getting quite as open as he used to, but he's Luca and he's a savant offensively. But this thing's only getting better. They're going nowhere.

I mean, again, Rui's not playing. Austin Reeves, not 100%. It's working. Okay, so I feel like I've led with these two guys for the past week. So now let's get to Steph Curry. And this is the way, you know, don't forget, you want to know the tours that made so much money last year, Bruce Springsteen, Madonna, and the Rolling Stones. You guys can put the old ones to bed.

But once again, there's a reason that when LeBron and Steph play on like Christmas or in a big Saturday night game, it's the highest rated game of the year. These guys are still great. Sometimes they get bored. Sometimes they're not pushed. I felt LeBron and AD kind of like treadmill to nowhere. But now you give Steph Jimmy Butler and the show is back. If you didn't see it last night, he had 40.

They won again. Third game four nights. Steph with a bad ankle. But he still put on a show. You do have it at single digits. That was the goal when you were down 22. Steph from mid-court. Oh!

Did he ghost him on that too? Oh, my goodness. He's cutting his curry from 45 feet. Yeah, this dude is an A-Bee. What did he just do? Every night this week, different city he's putting on a show. And listen, the showmanship warriors are back. Oklahoma City's really good.

It's about defense. Boston's really good. It's about roster construction. The nuggets are about fundamentals. And the calves are about efficiency. Warriors are about the show. And the NBA's always been better when it's got. a show. It can be the Healds. It can be Shaq and Kobe. Katie and Steph. But when you go to watch

Steph play halfway through that game last night, those Brooklyn fans, they weren't rooting for the Nets. They were Steph fans. And fans show up early to watch his warm-ups. That's what a star is. You always feel like you're two to four seconds away from seeing one of the greatest plays in basketball history. And, you know, I'm watching him last night. And we love to bury the old guys, and they always have something left in the tank. They always do. I mean, Jason Tatum had 34 points last night, and nobody outside of Worcester cares.

Steph's playing Brooklyn, and New York City's a buzz. And here is Steve Kerr after. Steph just had an incredible trip, put on a show in every city. What he does, It's amazing. Just the show that he puts on,

the joy that he brings to so many fans who are coming to see him play in all these different cities. You know, every fan base loves Steph, you know, and there's a reason. He's an incredible performer. It's very rare. Here's the Michael Jordan quality

with Steph Curry. Everybody love Michael. I mean, yeah, in Detroit, maybe, your primary rise. but I covered him when I was in Portland. I saw him play live four or five times. I saw his last game in Portland as a wizard. Halfway through the game, you were just rooting for Michael to do something amazing.

And that's what Steph Curry is. And that is absolutely what Steph Curry is. You just feel like you're a moment away from an all-time YouTube clip. And both LeBron and Steph have been energized because of smart moves by the front office, just like the NFL, the great play. are largely beholden to the guys upstairs, making sure they construct a real team, additives, not liabilities. It is great for the NBA. J. Mac, we were going to go to that thing.

I had a little meeting, but I got to watch it. And the show is back for the Warriors. You know, it's funny, a month ago, before the Jimmy Butler thing, I had said on the air, I'd said, if Steph's not on the floor, they're one of the most boring teams in the league. Isn't it amazing by just adding one player? And by the way, Butler's not necessarily assimilating, but he has created this sort of joyfulness for Steph. Now they're back to being the show that you can't wait for the games.

It is nice to see a rejuvenated Curry, a rejuvenated LeBron. They're probably both going to be first team all NBA again this year. Like, LeBron is legitimately in the MVP discussion. He probably won't win it because the media loves SGA and Oklahoma City's winning like 70 games. But LeBron and Curry just, it's just fun, man. It feels like an extension from the Olympics. Remember how they were like the superstars on the team, the old guys? It feels like an extension.

I think they could probably get both going to meet in the Western Conference Finals. And this is a prime example. We've talked about this, the Jason Tatum stuff this week. When you put Jason Tatum around all those old stars, he shrinks. When you put LeBron and Steph around the stars, pow, they're motivated. They want to show off to the kids. So a lot of times with these older star players farved this in Minnesota, he just, needed to be inspired. You know, you forget these guys, an NBA life is not just the games.

It's shoot around. It's at the hotel at 3 a.m. It is slogging in a winter league to a hotel, trying to get sleep. You get up, shoot around, breakfast, it's repetition, it's tedium. It's getting taped. It's a lot of film. It's a lot of tape. It's a lot of boring. It's like being an attorney. You know, you watch Perry Mason or you watch LA law Corbyn Burnton. You're like, I want to be an attorney. 90% of cases don't go in front of a judge. You're settling out of court? That would be boring? No, I mean, being an attorney, it's not like on television.

It is a lot of, it's accounting, it's just a lot of minutia. And that's what the NBA stars. They love, they love playing. But 90% of this league is not playing. So the LeBron's and the staffs, it's tedium. It's a lot of boredom. And if you give them jet fuel, it's like, they're like different players in the last three weeks. Imagine if the Lakers came to you and said, Colin, we want you to experience 72 hours with the Lakers.

You're on the flight, you're in the film room, nutrition, weightlifting, shoot around. Would you do that? I think that would be like the most fun thing ever. Try doing it for 22 years in a row, right? You're not digging ditches, that's for sure. I'm not relative to the average person, but for superstars, it is hard to get on that treadmill every day fighting for a playing game. Yeah, no, for sure. If you feel like owning a home is out of reach, Rocket is here to give you the keys back to that dream.

They think everybody deserves a shot at it. Own the dream, visit rocket.com and call 800 for Rocket. Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays in noon Eastern 9 a.m. Pacific on Fox Sports Radio, FS1, and the IHeart Radio app. Hey, it's us, the Jonas Brothers, and guess what? We have some big news. What's the news, name? Huge news. We created our own podcast. called Hey Jonas.

We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to it. We're the first people to do podcasts. Pretty, yeah, pretty wide range of podcasts. We're starting a trend. But this one's extra special. So how did we actually come up with a name, Hey Jonas, guys?

I honestly don't remember. I think it was on a call about what we should call it. Oh, we were thinking I'm originally calling it one of the early names of our band. Before Jonas Brothers was... This is how you guys remember it going to. don't? Yes. I have a very different memory of this. We were talking about a thing, a bit for the podcast, people could call in and say, hey, Jonas. And then I

wrote down on my little notepad, Hey Jonas, and offered it up as a potential title for the podcast. But thanks for remembering that, guys. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier.

This week, my guest, S&L's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged.

It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the IHard Radio app,

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learn the hard way. Open your free, our heart radio app. Search Learn the Hardway and listen now. All right, welcome back. Finally, Mark Cuban is addressed. the, you know, disastrous trade that Nico Harrison, the GM made to, you know, Nico Harris and the GM of the Mavs should get consideration to the basketball Hall of Fame for special contributions to the game.

I mean, the Lakers now have revitalized the NBA, which had gone through a couple of years of soft ratings and uninteresting, a lot of international stars. Who's the face of the league? Well, now the Warriors, the Celtics, the Knicks, the War, you know, you got big cities. now engaged. And here's Mark Cuban on the trade. If the Mavs are going to trade Luca, that's one thing, just get a better deal. You know, no disrespect to Anthony Davis, but, you know, get three, if I still firmly believe if we had gotten four unprotected number ones in Anthony Davis and Max Christie, this

would be a different conversation. Would you ever have traded Luca Donchich? I'm not going to go there. It's not. It doesn't matter. Okay. So when Jimmy Johnson won the trade, trading Hershey, Walker to the Vikings. It wasn't just that they gave up Hershal Walker. They got eight draft picks. So it's not just about the haul. It's the yield. And they hit on their draft picks. I have no problem selling the mansion. You got to get a windfall back. You got to get flexibility. Oklahoma City moved off Hardin and Westbrook. They get

draft picks. That's why Oklahoma City and Sam Presti for the last several years have had the most flexibility in the league. You have to move off stars. The Chiefs moved off Tyreek Hill. It happens. Bengals are going to move off an edge rusher. I wouldn't, but if you're going to do that, you want to put yourself in a position to get flexibility. I have no. I mean, when the Pelicans moved off AD, they got Brandon Ingram, they got Josh Hart, but they got three first round picks, and one of those was Zion. If Zion would have remained healthy, because he was great when he entered the league, he had Wilk Chamberlain numbers.

If he would have remained healthy and had his diet and body together, you wouldn't even remember A. because Zion's game's more exciting. So I don't mind moving players. Three first-round picks. AD Austin Reeves, I wouldn't do it, but I don't think it would get lamented because, you know, I mean, Luca wasn't in shape. He was hurt.

He'd missed back-to-back camps. He's an awful defensive player. You're even seeing now. He's still not in great shape, but he's been in Los Angeles, kind of the tutelage of J.J. Reddick and LeBron guys who have always been in great shape when they played or if they're coaching. So it's just you've got to get to,

up. Danny Aange has moved off stars. Always gets flexibility. Sam Presti. Same thing. That's because now they have the, I think the Mavs are best off not playing AD, not playing anybody, and just getting a better pick. Try to get a top 10, 12 pick. You're not going to get into the lottery. You got too many wins. But I would just try to get, try to salvage it. Because you don't control a lot of your future picks. You got your one first rounder this year. And it's a pretty good draft. It's a very domestic. draft. I mean, by the way, you tanked a couple years ago and got the kid from Duke, who's a very good player. Now, you got fine for it, but you did a

soft tank. So, I mean, it happens in the NBA. But to get no flexibility and less of a player, that's how you get fired. J-MAC with the news. No, no, no, turn on the news. This is the herd line news.

Colin, I haven't talked much about Aaron Rogers in the last 48 hours. What's You say? Well, apparently he really wanted to go to the Rams if they had lost Matt Stafford. Now L.A.'s off the table and Adam Schaefter reports there is not an abundance of options for the 41-year-old quarterback. Now, Rogers has been linked to the Giants, the Raiders, the Steelers, Titans, Vikings, but that's simply because there's been openings in most of those places. And, Colin, there's conflicting reports everywhere.

It's almost like nobody knows what Rogers is doing. you know, he's like that weirdo, who's like doing darkness or treats. Wall Street and NFL GMs don't like mystery. Yeah. They want certainties. They want guarantees. You know, when Russell Wilson, every time Russell Wilson has been in limbo, he makes sure he releases all those videos of how hard he's working out.

Remember Cam Newton did that a few years ago. Hey, man, I'm working out down here in Charlotte. Grinding. People want certainties. Nobody likes mystery. Aaron does, but teams don't. So let's go through them real quick. Do you see Aaron Rogers going to the Raiders?

Pete Carroll returns to coaching. You think they're in play. Because we had the odds. The Raiders are second. Giants are first. I'm not really buying the Giants anymore. I feel like it would have happened, right? Yeah, I just, I don't know.

Everybody on the Internet thinks this is going to happen, and I just don't see it. It doesn't feel right. It feels, again, once again, Aaron Rogers going to a team where he's the savior trying to save Dayball's job and Joe Shane's job. We just did that with the Jets, and it didn't work. Yeah.

Okay, so by the way, what worked? Brady going to actually a very, good roster in Tampa. That wasn't being a savior. Stafford coming to LA. He wasn't being a savior. Gop was good. It doesn't work. Well, if you get Rogers and Devante DeVante, and all of a sudden you've got Rogers, Devante Adams, and Malik neighbors, that's kind of spicy, and you're selling tickets with that trio, right? Now, I don't know about the offensive line. You know, we know the back end of the defense is terrible. Ask yourself this, when you think about a quarterback, is it any time an older quarterback past their prime has gone to a team as a

That's why I defended Kirk Cousins to Atlantic. He wasn't a savior. What he was trying to do is by stability for a year until Pennix was ready to play. He wasn't a savior. Nobody looked at him like that. So if the answer, Aaron to the Giants, he's trying to save the GM and the head coach's job. That is not a good fit.

Give me a percentage on chance that Aaron Rogers will not be on an NFL roster week one. Zero to 100. Oh, I think it's 50-50. Wow. Aaron's not going to go to a bad team. You think you're too. walk away from football?

He's got $300 million. What about that ego? You think he could walk away from football? No, I think he'll, I think, you know, I think that will be placed somewhere else. I mean, Aaron, you know the old saying, listen to people, they'll tell you who they are and what they're thinking. Aaron has told us that he loves football, but he's got a lot of other interests. And the minute the season is over, Aaron Rogers disappears. He goes up to Thousand Oaks and he works out in a training facility.

He's in shape, but he's got, I mean, I watched that documentary. He's reading about Greek mythology and Roman mythology on his deck. He's got a lot of interests. So is this 50-50 that nobody wants him or he says I'm walking away? I think Aaron controls this completely. And if he doesn't have good options, he just walks away and looks like I'm not done. And he'll be a first ballot hall of famer that had a really bad last landing spot. First ballot.

Yeah. He'll be a first ballot hall of famer, an all-time great Green Bay Packer. I don't put him top 10 quarterback all time, but I think he's very close to that. Not top 10. I thought he was on the top-five trajectory when he was stacking MVP awards. A lot of people are on trajectories. He may be top 10. I think he's somewhere around 8, 9, 10 probably.

But again, Aaron's got fame. He's happy. He's older. He doesn't want any more rehab. He's got a beautiful place on the beach in Malibu. like what does Aaron Rogers need to be happy? He seems happy to me. I think you just gave producers a segment.

Aaron Rogers are top 10 quarterback all time. I think MVP's alone? Probably not definitive. Maybe he is. I always liked him more than Favre, so he probably is, because Farr's probably in there. All right, next story, more negative NFL news, and that's Miles Garrett.

We know he requested a trade out of Cleveland. Well, he apparently requested a meeting with the owner of the Browns, Jimmy Haslam, to talk about the situation. Haslam reportedly turned down the idea and said, I'm not meeting with you. Now, Miles Garrett's campus saying, hey, he's prepared to miss some games. If he's not traded, the GM and the coach have been steadfast. We're not trading him.

I just looked up Miles Garrett's last contract. Day signed. Four years, $137 million. He's got money in the bank. This is not some first-round pick who's sitting out. This has got a lot of money who can just say, I generally am not for players doing this. I am. But when a franchise is so perpetually poorly run, I'm not blaming the coach or the GM.

I'm blaming ownership. Then I believe any employee in any state has a right to leave or break a contract. If the organization does not live up to the standard you have delivered as a player. At some point the Browns have to answer Miles Garrett's questions, right? What are we doing a quarterback? What the hell is going on here? Why can't we win? We've got good player.

They got a good roster. They were in the playoffs, I think two years ago with Joe Flacco, right? Coming off the bench? Does that happen? Yeah. So it's like, I don't know, disappointing for Miles Garrett at the end. He's been amazing. And I hope he gets trade.

Final story, Colin is, speaking of premium edge rushers, how about Trey Hendrickson? He's demanding a trade for the second straight season. But this time, Cincinnati's actually saying, sure, go out there and test the market. Hendrickson led the NFL in seven. with 17 and a half. He has one year left on his deal. And the Bengals are allowing him to seek out a trade partner.

Now, there's a report, Colin, that once the Bengals saw what Max Crosby got, they were like, oh, we can't handle that. We're out. We're out on paying Trey Hendrickson. Once again, another team waiting too late to pay their guy. Pay early. Beat everyone else. Well, pay early if they're legitimately elite and Trey Hendrickson has been for several years.

So yes, they should have paid. That doesn't mean you pay Brock or DAC early. If you think you have a star, Lamar Jackson, by all means, pay them early. If you have a B-plus guy whose agent wants to lecture you that he's a star, do not pay early. You push it off until the last day. I'll focus on Hendrickson here and not take the Brock Purdy bait. But Colin, I heard a really sharp gambling guy say, listen, you look at that defensive roster. Go look at the PFF grades for a lot of those guys.

They don't have any dudes on defense. And I just wrote this up. They gave up 38 to the commanders, 41 to the Ravens, 37 to the Eagles, 35 to the Ravens. Who's that? The Cincinnati defense. They can't stop anybody.

They give up over 34 points seven times a season. Despite having the league leader in sacks. I think it's time to consider moving off Trent Hendrick. No, I think it's time. This is what I said about Joe Burrell. Joe Burrell was cranky all season. All season long he was upset. This is why.

Is that he watches Lamar's roster. Josh's roster, Mahomes roster, Stafford's roster, Goff's roster, Goff's roster, Hurts roster, C.J. Strouds, getting better roster. And he looks at his and thinks, how does Philadelphia, do they use a Swiss bank? How do they have a loaded roster? We can't keep anybody. They moved off Jesse Bates. Remember him in the safety a couple years ago? He's dominant in that. Joe Burrow is trapped. He is trapped.

I mean, listen, you can't pay Higgins, Chase, Burrow, and Hendridge. You're not going to have a roster. They're going to have nobody on offensive line, nobody on defense. Look at their defense. It's called having a bigger scouting department and being better on draft weekend. You don't think four scouts is enough for whatever. Go look at the Bengals website and go look at the Eagles scouting departments. You can pay all four of those guys if you have, you know, the Niners scouting department or the Eagle scouting department, and you hit on your draft pick.

I take what I can get for Trey Hendrickson right now. I mean, I know he's awesome. I would want to keep him. But you need dudes and they don't have any. Their safety stink. Cornerback struggled all season. Jay Mack with the news. Well, that's the news.

And thanks for stopping by. The Hurd Lie News. So sometimes it's funny. So yesterday I saw that I was trending, and I laughed. Of course, I was trending because of what I said about Jason Tatum. So I've never had a topic where I just give you data and facts, and one city is more outraged.

I don't even understand it. yesterday I said, you know, they're 10 and 2 when he doesn't play. That's not an opinion. I said they score eight points more a game when he doesn't play. That's not an opinion. The field goal percentage, the net rating, the three-point percentage all goes out when Jason Tatum doesn't play. Those aren't opinions.

In the Eastern Conference finals and the NBA finals, Jalen Brown was the MVP, not Tatum. That's not an opinion. In the Olympics, the second to last game against Serbia, coach's decision, they wouldn't play him. In the gold medal game, he had two points. These are not opinions. You are trying to make him, Yokic, Janus, Stefan, LeBron, and Luca. I'm not. I'm just saying he's not in that class, and all the numbers prove it.

I mean, and by the way, you know who else proves it? Shoe companies. LeBron, Steph, Katie, and John Morant have their own brand. Tatum doesn't. He's got a shoe under Michael's brand. So the Olympics, what did it prove? He shrinks against with great players around it. Eastern Conference finals.

What did it prove? What's production data prove when he doesn't play? I'm not saying he's not a star. The NBA at any one time has two superstars, maybe three, and then about 12 stars. I'm just saying he's not in the three. He's in the 12, and people are outraged by it. I think it's, you know, that's why this all started with the face of the league stuff. And I think in terms of face of the league, he's more Tim Duncan, where he's efficient,

productive, good guy, excellent player, can win your championships. But there's not a lot of aura there. There's not a lot of personality. I don't think that's a criticism. So you're the one trying to get me to compare him to superstars. There's a lot of good soccer players and not a lot of Messies and Rinaldos. At any one time, the world's got two of them. Now, the world's got 50 other great soccer stars,

but at any one time, Mbapé, Messe, Rinaldo, it's got about three superstars, global stars. And this is a global league, and Tatum's not a global star. I said this before, is that we talk about Michael Jordan, he hasn't played forever. We talk about magic and Byrd and Dr. J. You know who we don't talk about? Tim Duncan, Carl Malone.

They're great players. Jason Tatum's going to run. retire, four years later, there'll be no Jason Tatum talk. Doesn't mean he's not great. You're the one jamming him in to this global elite group, and I'm just saying, numbers don't prove it. Do you know what his nickname is? So the NBA Twitter is a thing. And they make up nicknames all the time. This year, they've given seven new players nicknames. I didn't. I'm just going to tell you what the nickname was. His nickname, Tatum's nickname, the anomaly. That's the nickname they gave him. The anomaly. Does that

that sound like it would sell shoes? So, so, so, so I think his nickname should be the password because he's commonly forgotten. But I'm going to get shots for that. I throw a couple up there.

All right, we're being snarky. But it, I would, we're just being snarky. We can have fun, right? It's an entertainment show.

Wait, you need to read those out loud for the radio audience because they're so disrespectful. The Miss Army knife. The last one is terrible. 75 cent. He misses in the fourth,

you know, missing a fourth quarter. I know who's work that is. I'm familiar with the ball. Somebody in our staff thought they were funny. I know. He's a funny guy, but listen. Whatever, you can take that. That is so disrespectful. No, but I guess,

people are putting him in this Rinaldo messy class. I'm just saying he's more Wayne Rooney. Okay, I'm just saying he is great. Wayne Rooney was the biggest star in England, but he's not messy. So he's a second tier star, is you what you're saying? My whole life. The NBA's had like, When I was a kid growing up, Dr. Jay was a star.

George McGinnis was, I mean, I can name 20 guys that were great. And by the way, Shaq and Kobe were stars. Okay, those were superstars. Okay, so your top tier of stars right now, Janice, Curry, LeBron. No, the top superstars globally, Steph and LeBron are one and two. Right. I think Luca, now that he's with the Lakers, that elevates his brand, probably 25, 30 percent. That's a superstar.

Yonis is classic. Janice is much more like Duncan where the NBA playoffs four years ago when he was the best player in the league they put him on a noon game The NBA shoe companies tell you if you're a star shoe companies tell you

He doesn't have his own brand So okay Joe Morant does Now John Morant blew it Because of his immaturity But the league All these shoe companies are like Steph LeBron

MJ They saw John Morant go That is a sizzle So So Anthony Edwards is a bigger star than Jason Tatum. Is that a fair statement? No. They're both stars.

Neither one of those are global icons. They're not. Yeah, I would agree with they're not global icons. And by the way, Yokic is closer to Tim Duncan than LeBron. If you're Jason Tatum and I say, you're not a global icon. Who cares? I'm a winner. I go to the Easter conference finals or the NBA finals every damn year.

That's what every guy in Wusta is saying today, and I'm good with it. Yeah, and you know what else? 95% of the league would kill to be in the playoffs like Jason Tatum. I agree with. I agree with. I agree with that, too. Yeah, yeah. The argument is people are offended when I give them actual data that the team is 10 and 2 without him.

And offensively, net rating, field goal, three point, point. They're better. That might be that he took off games against crap teams and the Celtics are going to smoke him anyway. Or it could be the truth. I mean, what about his 51 burger in game six? Seven. You forget about that one? Game six in Milwaukee at like 45. I'll never forget. And listen, I don't even like the Celtics. In fact, I hate all Boston teams because I'm from New York. I love Jason Tatum. A lot of Lakers fans, by the way, thought Jason Tatum would be a Laker at some point because he's like Mr. Kobe. This is the classic. I'm adding contextualization. You view it as hate. Like I said, Brock Purdy. I'd pay him 40 million. Well, wait, don't you think you were trending yesterday because of the hate?

Yeah, that's not my issue. I'm just reporting. If you were glazing Jason Tatum, it would not have gone viral and got two million views or whatever, right? If you're saying he's really great. But if you're taking some shots at him and saying he's not a global icon. No, like I said, there are no shots. There are no shots. He's closer to Duncan Carl Malone, who we don't talk about.

They retired two minutes later. They're not a topic. Dominique Wilkins retires. By the way, Dominic Wilkins never made the dream team. great player never made the dream team everybody the unbelievable but scotty pippin did because scotty pippin was robin to batman on the world's best team scotty i mean so again scotty pippin is one of those players

he's not as good tatum taitom's better than scotty pipp oh no no well scottie's good but but the difference is michael they were the rolling stones that the bulls were this un they're the biggest basketball brand i think in my life lifetime. They were, the only team that surpassed any Celtic team or any Laker team was Michael Jordan's Bulls. Well, you could argue the modern teams right now with the global reach of social media and TV games that the teams now are way more popular than they were in the 90s. I'm just saying relative to the era. And so this idea about Jason Tatum, I'm just giving you data. Don't let facts get in the way of feelings. I'm just giving you the data points.

You're getting worked up over it. I'm just saying he's not LeBron. He's not Steph. He's not messy. He's not Ronaldo. He's not Pele in his prime. You know, I mean, he's not Madonna or Bruce or the Stones. What band would he be? He would be a multi-Grammy winning band. Weezer?

I love Weezer. First band I ever saw. He's better than Weezer. Weezer's really, really good. Okay. Come on. I love Tatham. And yesterday I said, he reminds me a little at Clay Thompson.

Again, he's better than Clay Thompson. But Clay Thompson played alongside a player who often in the biggest games, Clay Thompson felt like the second best player. Good God, every time Jalen and Tater Murray's big series last year, it was Brown taking the shots. Now, I think Tatum's better than Jalen Brown. Not as much as people think. I think it's closer than you think, but Tatum's better.

But just, it's not perfectly analogous, but I do think he's got more of a Carl Malone, Tim Duncan. Yokic is fascinating because he's easily the best player in the league. And he has no brand and doesn't want it. So Tatum wants it. Well, how do you know he wants it? Tatum has said, I check all the boxes.

Like last week in a story, he said, well, I could be the face of the league. I mean, you know what's funny about it? I'll give you an example. Go back to Duke. So when he was at Duke, Jason Tatum, did he lead him in scoring? No, wasn't it at Luke Conard? What was he the most talked about player? No, that was Grayson Allen.

Well, who was the star, Mike Schoefsky? He was the four on Duke. No, I mean, no, no, no. Grayson Allen was the most controversial and talked about. I don't think he was the leading score, and Shechewski was always the star of Duke. Yeah, I don't totally, all I remember is Coach K is the last guy to stop Jason Tatum, basically.

Couldn't get out of opening weekend in the NCAA tournament. I remember that brutal loss. Take a break. More on this next to Herd. Be sure to catch live editions of The Hurd. weekdays in noon Eastern 9 a.m. Pacific. Hey, it's Steve Kavino. And I'm Rich Davis.

And together we're Kavino and Rich on Fox Sports Radio. You can catch us weekdays from 5 to 7 p.m. Eastern, 2 to 4 Pacific on Fox Sports Radio and of course the IHeart Radio app. Why should you listen to Kavino and Rich? We talk about everything, life, sports, relationships, what's going on in the world? We have a lot of fun talking about the stories behind the stories in the world of sports and pop culture. Stories that, well, other shows don't seem to have the time to discuss.

And the fact that we've been friends for the last 20 years and still work together, I mean, that says something, right? So check us out. We like to get you involved, too. Take your phone calls, chop it up, as they say. I'd say the most interactive show on Fox Sports Radio. Maybe the most interactive show on Planet Earth. Be sure to check out Covino & Rich live on Fox Sports Radio in the IHeart Radio app

from 5 to 7 p.m. Eastern, 2 to 4 Pacific. And if you miss any of the live show, just search Covino and Rich, wherever you get your podcast and, of course, on social media. That's Coveino and Rich. Hey, it's us, the Jonas Brothers. And guess what? We have some big news. What's the news,

huge news? We created our own podcast called, Hey Jonas. We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to it. We're the first people to do podcasts. Pretty, yeah, pretty wide range of podcasts throughout there. But this one's extra special.

So how do we actually come up with a name, Hey Jonas, guys? I honestly don't remember. I think it was on a call about what we should call it. And we were thinking I'm originally calling it. one of the early names of our band before Jonas Brothers was... This is how you guys remember it going down?

Yes. I have a very different memory of this. We were talking about a thing, a bit for the podcast, people could call in and say, Hey Jonas, and then I wrote down on my little notepad, Hey Jonas,

and offered it up as a potential title for the podcast. But thanks for remembering that, guys. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen.

We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL late-night comedy guy, not quite on Humor Me with Robert Smygel and Friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform?

We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get. your podcasts. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque.

Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Last night, a blown call changed a game.

This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves, their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear.

The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context, and ask the questions everybody wants answered. SportsSlice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to SportsClyce on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slices Life 12 in the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Yeah. Let's start Rick Bukers joining us.

Let's start. Lakers didn't play particularly well. Rui out, Austin Reef still not 100% clearly. What did the win prove last night for the doubters of the Lakers? Number one, it proved that the guy that LeBron wanted Anthony Davis to be and that he has always had when he has played for titles, he has in Luca Dachich. He has that closer.

LeBron has closed at times, but it's not what he prefers to do, and it's really not his strength. He can, but you saw it with Luca, Luca's not asking for permission. You don't have to convince Luca to take over a game. That's right. He's going to. And look, if Luca doesn't have it going on,

it's not like LeBron didn't do the work in the fourth quarter, but what we saw time and time again against Denver Nuggets is that LeBron had to be in that closer role, and he would just run out of gas. And so now you have a guy in Luca who, LeBron can do it at times, but Lucas is willing, able, and wants to be that guy and has that capability. So I saw that, but I also saw the vulnerability of the Lakers,

which Jalen Brunson was able to dribble, penetrate, and get inside, and then the Knicks were winning as long as that happened. I just wonder how we would look at this game if Jalen Brunson hadn't gotten hurt and had been able to finish, and the Knicks had wound up winning, because I think that was a possibility, and obviously, had the chance on the last second shot. Yeah, they outplayed the Lakers for three and a half quarters. Right. And so I don't know that we would be looking at this quite through the same lens if they had lost. I'm not trying to be definitive, but at O and 10 against the best teams

is pretty definitive, even if some of them are close. Now, they're losing big to Boston. Cleveland, they can't hang. Well, the Lakers aren't Cleveland or Boston. So that's my whole thing. Because yesterday on one of our other shows, I was asked to give my top five contenders. And I had the Lakers at five. So I have them in that mix. And this is generally the feeling around the league right now, which is the Lakers are for real, but when you get a team like Boston, we get a team like Cleveland, when you get a team like Oklahoma City, who have multiple dribble penetrators and guys that are bigger and more athletic than Jalen Brunson, now you're talking about a different thing. So what you're saying is what I believe. The Lakers are closer to the Knicks than the Celtics,

because I believe that, and I think you'll see it Saturday night. There's somewhere in between those two. That's right. That's right. Yeah. And I will say this. I do worry about this, is that I think even the Knicks know they need another guy. Yeah. I think the Carl Anthony Towns move has always felt like it's a move to get another player,

and they would have to move an OG, a cat for the first round, whatever they do. As long as you get flexibility and you make that move. And, you know, I've said this about, you know, Nico, which is, I don't mind the move if you had more flexibility with the move. because Sam Presti's moved off stars, but he always has a haul. Jimmy Johnson for Herschel, he got eight draft picks. You can leave the mansion. You better get a check for it, right, if you're downgrading home. So the Knicks, here's what I worry about.

Not that they're losing to these teams. It's that 40 minutes for all the starters. Jalen Brunson has to put on a clinic is that you do feel like are we seeing their best punch because of the way they're constructed and the way they're coached. Thousand percent. Because Jalen Brunson, you're asking him not only to be your go-to clothes, you're asking him to be your playmaker. You're not even asking that as Steph Curry at his best. Because you've got Dramon Green who's playmaking. You've got Jimmy Butler who can play

make now. So you're not asking him to play both of those roles. And when you ask a guy who is six to 190 pounds, we've simply never seen a guard. The most recent one that I thought might be able to do it was Derek Rose. And even that was too much for him, right? So you're asking a less athletic guy in Jalen Brunson, and I don't want to bag on him at all. I mean, he's a massive success story, and I love everything about how Jalen plays. But it is, to your point, it's the construction of the team. You're asking Jalen to basically be your offensive coordinator. It's James Harden. And by the end of the season, completely. He was shot. And he doesn't have. have James Hardin's size. Right, right. And so it's, and then you have a coach, at least with Hardin,

you had Mike Dantone, who's a pretty good offensive coach. And not the most grinding practices. And not the most grinding practices. As opposed to Tom Thubedo, who you're going to practice two and a half hours every day, and is not known as a very creative, offensive coach. How about this? Even Steve Kerr is surprised by Steph right now. Do you think he is a little bit? To be doing, continuing to do this at his age. On the road, bad ankle, three games, four nights. And just, no, the point that Steve was making is that we, especially with Shaq, you know, bringing it up that he should be in the goat conversation,

which is going too far. But you look at everything that Steph has done. And to what we're just talking about with Jalen, he's basically the same size. Like, it is all, the window that he has, to be able to get the shots off that he does and to be able to finish at the rim and do all the things that he does for his size and his athleticism.

LeBron, Luca, like, we're talking about all guys that are 40, 50 pounds and genetic 4 inches bigger and stronger. Like, it is just astounding that he does what he does. Rick Bueger, Good Stuff, Hour 2 next. Hey, guys, it's us. The Jonas Brothers. I'm Joe. I'm Kevin. And I'm Nick, and guess what? We created our own.

called Hey Jonas. We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to it. We're the first people to do podcasts. We get to ask other people questions because we're sick and tired of being asked questions. Well, sick and tired is a strong way to put it, but, you know, tired and sick. Tired and sick.

Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and Friends. me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, S&L's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel,

help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Winning on Clay is an art. The rallies are relentless.

And at the French Open, only the toughest survive. I'd know. I competed there for decades. Join me, Renee Stubbs, on the Renee Stubbs tennis podcast for no-nonsense breakdowns of the biggest matches, the toughest players, and the moments that define Roland Garris. She's an outsider to win the French name. And she likes Clay. Listen, Lennar Rabakina is arguably the best player in the world right now, and I actually can win on any surface. Listen to the Renee Stubbs tennis podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHeartWartW.

women's sports. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an I-Heart podcast, guaranteed human.