The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Hour 1 - Trouble for the Thunder

Episode Date: June 12, 2025

Colin identifies the major issue the Thunder are struggling with in the NBA Finals after a game 3 loss and dropping to 2-1 in their series against the Pacers He gives the latest numbers from Shedeur Sanders at Browns mini camp & OTAs and why it appears he's on a path to winning the starting jobSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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And at the French Open, only the toughest survive. I'd know. I competed there for decades. Join me, Renee Stubbs, on the Renee Stubbs tennis podcast for no nonsense breakdowns of the biggest matches, the toughest players, and the moments that define Roland Garris. Jen can win. She's an outsider to win the French fame. And she likes Clay.

Listen, Lina Rubakina is arguably the best player in the world right now. And I actually can win on any service. Listen to the Renee Stubbs tennis podcast on the IHart Radio app. Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHart Women's Sports. What's up, fam? It's Isaiah Thomas. And I'm C.J. Toledano. It's our favorite time of the year on our podcast point game, the playoffs. We're digging into the biggest surprises of the season. And I'm looking back on some of my

greatest playoff moments. If we didn't talk ever again, I was crying. You just understood. That's how personal it got. Wow. Then after that game seven, Marquis keep coming to you. like, you know I love you, dog. You know, it's all love. This was just playoffs. This was just basketball. So listen to Point Game on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Thanks for listening to The Heard podcast. Be sure to catch us live every weekday on Fox Sports Radio in noon to 3 Eastern, 9 a.m. to noon Pacific. Find your local station for the herd at

Fox SportsRedia.com or stream us live every day on the IHeart Radio app by searching Fox Sports Radio or FSR. Listening to Fox Sports Radio. Here we go. It is a Thursday. We are live. It is the herd. Wherever you may be,

and however, you may be listening. Thanks for making us on a Thursday part of your day. The Pacers with 13 steals, the Pacers with 11 blocks. Who is the great defensive team in this finals? I can't tell the difference. I have no idea at this point.

We got ourselves Jamek, we got ourselves a little NBA finals drama. I think somebody on this show gave out Pacers' money line yesterday. I don't remember. You know, but we loved Indiana. I think they're at control of the series.

The way they locked up SGA, oh, love it. Yeah, so we have found O KC's Kryptonite. You send this young team on the road and that defense isn't nearly as dumb. prominent and they make more mistakes 19 turnovers and they don't get to the free throw line.

The Thunder or an average team, four and four in the playoffs, when their star, SGA, has eight free throw attempts or fewer. They're 500. That's all they are. And remember we told you if Celtics were a better road team because they live on the three. You don't need the whistle when you're shooting threes. The three travels well. Yeah, OKC does not travel well. And they're young rotational players, and we know this, we've told you this, you know this, young rotational players and bench players like Indiana's are always better at home than they are on the road. And they get a little tight, they don't get the home cooking, they commit a few more turnovers. OKC is just okay. Through the last three series, they're two and four on the road.

And because the Thunder didn't play a lot of close games, remember, they won by an average of 12.9 points a game. The downside of that is they didn't play a lot of close games. And the best clutch team in the NBA is Indiana. They're nine and one in the playoffs in clutch games. So in close,

tight games, the last six minutes of the game last night, the Thunder had one field goal. They weren't even good at the free throw line. So their youth and their depth is a huge, huge edge during the regular season.

right but they just have huge energy and the regular season it's not about preparation sometimes it's a back-to-back you're watching film in the locker room where you put your uniform on it's about bodies it is about energy and okay sees the best in the league at that but the playoffs everybody is equally rested and you face the same team over and over and Rick carlyle is sitting there thinking okay I'm starting to figure this team out a little bit I'm starting to figure this out late in the fourth quarter. It was Oklahoma City that was gassed. Indiana was getting great looks. They shot 52% for the game. So we have ourselves a series now. I mean, think about the regular season. The only teams that have ever won as many games is the thunder in the regular

season are the early warriors with Stefan Clay, the best team ever, Michael Jordan's Bulls, and the Wilts-Elgin Baylor, Jerry West Lakers. You've got to go, you've got to go way, way back. Those are the only teams that were ever better. And they are built perfectly for the regular season and they're a very good playoff team and they may win the finals, game sevens in O KC, but today they are mortal. They have a kryptonite. That youth on the road allows 117 points a game. That's not all time stuff. Here's SGA after. They were aggressive. They were hiring the pick of rolls. Um, they really were just like court said, more aggressive, more forceful.

Yeah, we got to, it starts with me, but we got to apply that pressure back. Um, especially if you want to beat the team like that on the road. You got to be the more forcible team for sure. All right, let's talk Pacers. And they are, and we've said this, they're a lot of fun to watch. I thought they'd beat Milwaukee. I didn't think they'd beat Cleveland. I didn't know about the Knicks.

And I took O KC and six. I got to tell you, they have so many different types of players. Forget the fact that seven different pacer's are averaging double figures in the finals. Forget that. But I mean, they can put crazy length on the floor. Halliburton's the longest point guard in the league. Put him on the floor with Obie Toppin, Seaccombe and Miles Turner. They're one of the longest teams.

You can go small and quick. T.J. McConnell. Naismith. They got small quick guys. They got long guys. They have ascending players. How about Ben Mathern? How about that guy?

How about that young guy? Got a little Westbrook, right, with a little more refinement. He was a hockey and a football player in Canada. He goes to Arizona. One year in college, dominates. Next year, he's going to be one of the best players in the league. You're going to talk about Cooper Flagg, and that kid's going to give you 22 a night.

He has wild confidence. And per minute, I think he made me the Pacers' leading score per minute. So they've got ascending players, veteran players like Seahawker. them, rim protectors. There are so many levers for Rick Carlisle to pull. They're unselfish. I don't see ego. They have the requisite three-point shooters. I mean, last night they had 11 blocks. They had like double the steals. I was saying this on my podcast after is that they stole about eight points last night on like inbound plays or an offensive rebound or a steel or a block. They were just stealing points throughout the game.

And remember, this is a really bad, here's something that's really bad news for Oklahoma City. So Oklahoma City played the fewest clutch time games in the league, right? And all the pressures on Oklahoma City because they're the favorite. And they're one of the youngest teams in the league. And the Pacers are the best clutch time team probably in the NBA. That's a bad combo. a young team with more pressure that hasn't played a lot of close games against the best close game point guard and team in the league.

And if you go look at the by quarter scoring, Oklahoma City's best quarter is the first, the Pacers is the fourth, which one would you take as a head coach? Now, game seven's an OKC, but the pressure is all on the thunder. The best thing they got going for them, They're at home and they're good at home.

But last night, I thought Indiana got better looks. They played more efficiently. They were less sloppy. They were more composed. They were the much better team at the end of the first half and at the end of the game. Remember, the Pacers got to the Eastern Conference finals last year. We forget this. We paid so much attention to the Celtics and can Denver get back?

And we're always talking Lakers. Kyrie Irving and Luca, this team got to the Eastern Conference. conference finals last year, but they weren't very good defensively. Now they're much better defensively with the same great pace and all these ascending players like Halliburton's getting better. You can see this Naismith. I mean, like, see Aukham's always been good, right? But this is a team that's getting better and has more confidence, not only year to year, but series to series. And here's their coach after. This is the kind of team that we are. You know, we need, we need everybody to be ready.

It's not always going to be exactly the same guys that are stepping up with scoring and stuff like that. But, you know, this is how we got to do it. And we got to do it as a team. And, you know, we got to make it as hard as possible on them. It really matters that Rick Carlisle is a good coach because I don't care if it's football, basketball, hockey, or baseball. The better the manager, the better the coach.

They're better at pulling the right levers. Spolstra, Steve Kerr, the more levers you can get them to pull in a series. And I also think we're overstating. It's bad on me. But I think I kind of felt like going into the series, you know, like, O KC's got a better roster. I'm not so sure of it. I'm not so, I think Indiana plays pretty good defense. And I think they have so many different types of players, small, quick, long offensive. I mean, Halliburton, Obie Toppen, Miles Turner, this team had 11 blocks last night. So, you know, we're all talking about what the Knicks are going to do

and wait till Tatum's back with the Celtics and who are the Lakers going to land. I don't know. I look at Carlisle, an ascending roster, all sorts of shapes, styles, and sizes, and levers to pull. Got ourselves some NBA drama, J. Mack. This was fun. Last night was fun. And I'll tell you what, if you start looking at what Indiana does in the fourth quarter this year, there was a video that was out. I was introduced to it probably about three weeks ago,

and they showed Halliburton, who you were on like two and a half years ago, but they showed Halliburton every shot he took, like a minute or less, left in the basketball game to lead or tie. It was like 12 of 13. Like, there's always been this feeling among the analytic mavens, that there's no such thing as clutch shooters. Like, it all works out with a math. That's not true.

But when you watch Indiana and Halliburton play, that guy is so good and so confident in big clutch moments. At some point, we have to acknowledge. Halliburton is now one of the NBA's elite closers. It's not always scoring, but from three-point shooting to driving and dishing, he is one of the league's best closers. He was tremendous. I'm surprised you did 10 minutes, and we really did not go after SGA, the MVP, the free throw. merchant who somehow escaped criticism for a fourth quarter when he had one turnover and one basket. Colin, they wore him down seven different defenders on SGA.

And if you notice, when the Pacers were running offense, they were attacking him the same way the Pacers attacked Brunson. Remember Brunson was just getting abused? They went out SGA. He had nothing left in the tank. Colin, I don't know how the Thunder changed this. I'm shocked that the line is OKC minus six for game four on the road. covered a road game this postseason.

O and eight against the spread. How is OKC favorite here? I don't get it. Well, I mean, it's pretty clear. If SGA doesn't get to the line, they are an average playoff team on the road. And overall, they're four and four when he's not getting to the line over eight times.

So that's sort of the key if he does not get the home whistle. And when you and I talked about this yesterday on the show, we both liked Indiana. And our takeaway was, and you saw it last night, bench players and young players at home are unbelievable. Indiana's bench last night. It's one of the great bench. The second quarter was insane.

They just, they put starters on the bench, brought the bench guys in, and they were dominating OKC. Indiana's bench is not going to look like that in the road, and OKC's bench isn't as dynamic on the road. So this is something we, with stars usually you get your points from your star.

Halliburton is going to be good, usually all the time, Yokic is, Yonis is. But those rotational and bench guys, home is a different environment completely. They get confidence. They get energized. And the Pacers win this in six? Because if they win, they got to win game four.

I don't think they're taking two of three from OKC on the road, right? They're not going to win game seven in OKC. They'll get run off the court. I took OKC in six. I would adjust it to OKC and seven. I think they're going to be tough to beat at home to game seven. Yeah, Pacers got to win this in six. That's why they got to win game four.

Ben Matherin, by the way, what a stud. I saw you call him Russell Westbrook? last night? No, he does. He's a machine. Oh, no. So I went and I looked up his Wikipedia stuff. He was a hockey guy and a football guy and a basketball guy. He goes to Arizona is a dominant college player. And, you know, he's a one and done guy. But he's a guy that what he's on the floor is just instant energy for them. I mean, you can see, folks, you can talk about all these players. We're going to pay attention to Cooper flag next year and Wemby and the young players. This kid is dynamic. man, he was like that in college. I bought him like twice in college. Super confident player.

And he's confident defending SGA. Game 1 and game 3. He did a great job. He's like a physical dude. You can't just push him off like SGA normally does. I'm all about the series, Colin. It's fun. Be sure to catch live editions of the herd weekdays in noon Eastern 9 a.m. Pacific on Fox Sports Radio, FS1, and the IHeart Radio app. Hey, it's us to Jonas Brothers. And guess what? We have some big news. What's the news? huge news. We created our own podcast called Hey Jonas. We invented a podcast. Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to it. We're the first people to do podcasts.

Pretty, yeah, pretty wide range of podcasts. We're starting a trend. But this one's extra special. So how do we actually come up with a name Hey Jonas, guys? I honestly don't remember. I think it was on a call about what we should call it. And, well, we were thinking I'm originally calling it one of the early names of our band before Jonas. brothers. This is how you guys remember it going down? Yes. I have a very different memory of this. We were talking about a thing, a bit for the podcast,

where people could call in and say, Hey, Jonas. And then I wrote down on my little notepad, Hey Jonas, and offered it up as a potential title for the podcast. But thanks for remembering that, guys. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL, late-night comedy guy,

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The French Open is one of the toughest tests in tennis. And I know firsthand because I competed there myself. I'm Renee Stubbs. And on the Renee Stubbs tennis podcast, I'm breaking down. on everything happening at Roland Garris. Every match, every upset, and what it really takes to win on Clay. Jen she won. I mean, she went down at three to Rabakina, but I'm delighted.

She's an outsider to win the French for me. And she likes Clay. Listen, Lena Rubakina is arguably the best player in the world right now. And I actually can win on any surface. Because if she's serving, well, good luck. Consider this your court side seat to the French Open. Listen to the Renee Stubbs tennis podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHeart Women's Sports.

You are now entering the no bull zone, sponsored by credible great rates, none of the bull. Storytime, Uncle Colin. So there were these two scientists back in like the 60s for 3M, the company 3M. And they were trying to create this super strong adhesive for the aerospace industry. But even though they're scientists and smart guys, they ended up creating a much weaker adhesive that was very removable. And that became Post-it notes, which are probably more important anyway. But the point being is they stumbled into wild success. And I think that's what the Cleveland Browns have done.

the coach and the GM did not want to they didn't want to draft shedur Sanders and they did in the fifth round two rounds after Dylan Gabriel and he's crushing it he's their best quarterback in camp Colin he's facing backups yeah he's throwing to him as well sometimes just stumble into success it's not a straight line it's not linear Brady with the Patriots Brock Purdy to the Niners Kurt Warner to the Rams it's not always a straight line. So the staff because they picked and the GM because they picked Dylan

Gabriel third round and Shadur fifth they're given Dylan Gabriel most of the first team reps but not all of them now. Not all of them. The coaching staff cannot deny what's happening and here's the difference. Let's forget

Flacco for a second. He'll probably start and Kenny Pickett's not the future. Let's concentrate on the two kids. Shadour Sanders. is 34 of 44. Nine touchdowns, one pick. The most accurate quarterback easily in camp, 77%. Dylan Gabriel is the least of the four accurate quarterbacks.

54%. Okay, so I'm sorry, they're all thrown to the same guys, same protection, same coaching staff. And that's why you've got to be careful about Dylan Gabriel. If you just talk about Shador Sanders and Dylan Gabriel, they did not have similar college experiences. Kishadur Sanders has Travis Hunter and a bunch of non-sunday players. Dylan Gabriel went from Powerhouse, Oklahoma

to Powerhouse, Oregon. And Oregon, outside of Ohio State, Texas, and Georgia, Oregon had the most guys drafted. They had 10 guys drafted, NFL receivers, left tackles. Right? So, Dylan Gabriel's playing with pros. Pros everywhere.

Receivered. Rams drafted their tied end. The receivers, their left tackle. pros everywhere great staff one of the highest paid staffs in the country Shadur Sanders had Travis Hunter who got doubled and tripled so it's just like you and not you can't compare a Yale GPA to a community college GPA but if you give them a standardized test or they're taking the bar to be an attorney okay now it's fair so that's why I think I don't want to hear about what what Dylan Gabriel did in

college Shadur didn't have that experience the OTA and the mini camps, that's the standardized test. That's same guys, same staff, same calls. One guy's complete and almost 80%, one guy 54%. And, you know, again, I go back to what the scouts say, like Lance Zerline. If you go back and look at the scouting report, you know, they acknowledge that Shadur didn't have a great arm, but Dylan had size, arm, release, mobility, as all sorts of questions.

So I don't care that he dominated at Oregon. You know, it's like a lot of quarterbacks crush at Oregon. They've got great. They've been a powerhouse for 20 plus years. Shador Sanders on just, you know, humbly trying to work his way up the depth chart. You could view things as you're not getting reps in a negative way, or you could view it as, okay, when it's my time to get out there, let's be proactive and let's get warm, let's get it going.

So there's no excuses. because when you get out there, nobody cares how many reps you got. Whenever you get in the game, nobody cares if you took a snap before. You know, like they care about, everybody cares about production. So that's the main thing. When you get out there, you've got to be able to produce. Sounds like a franchise quarterback to me. Like what I'm hearing.

But again, same plays, same receivers, same tight ends, same protection. put that graph up again. The numbers are the numbers. Shadour is crushing it. 34 of 44. His balls aren't hitting the ground. J-Mack with the news. No, no, no, no.

Turn on the news. This is the herd line news. About taking the debate, buddy. Let's go to Justin Herbert, Colin. The last time we saw him play an NFL game, he threw four interceptions. against the Texans. The worst game of his career, essentially. The Chargers enter the season looking for their first playoff wins since 2018. Oh my gosh. Herbert is trying to move on from that

poor performance. Just like every other loss, you know, you take a look at what you did wrong, what you did, you know, right, and you try and improve. And if I spend any more time, you know, worrying or focusing on a, you know, a loss like that, I think I'm doing a disservice to my teammates. You know, obviously it didn't go the way we wanted to. Like I said at the end of the year, but you've got to move on. And you have to take a look at all you did wrong. Be honest with yourself. Be critical. But you can't let it take it too a few times.

11 wins, win the division, chiefs are the wild card team, and Broncos a wild card team as well. I feel pretty strongly about that take. I don't disagree. They were like a year ahead of schedule anyway, right? Nobody expected them to get to the playoffs in year one with Harbaugh. That's right.

And they upgraded the receiving core, added Tray Harris. Mike Williams is back. You know the running back room is formidable. with Nasi Harris and the kid Hampton from North Carolina? Harbaugh's history is by year two, it feels like a Harbaugh team. Year one at Michigan, you're trying to catch up on recruits from Brady Hoke or year one in San Francisco. Year two in Jim Harbaugh's career, usually the running back room is settled,

he's got his O line fixed, the culture has been built. So I think year two, I can tell you in the building, there's a feeling they're going to make a significant leap from last year. Yeah, I don't doubt that at all. And I just, anybody who's like, whoa, is Herbert any good? Just go look up Peyton Manning's like first four playoff failures. Okay, he started his career going to the playoffs and they just flopped. He could not get a win.

So just relax. Herbert's going to be fine. Next story, Colin is Sequin Barkley. Last month, Seiquant talked about flirting with retirement. I don't know if you remember that. But he has since backtrack saying he doesn't plan on retiring anytime soon. Instead, Seekwon has his eyes on, instead on becoming one of the greatest running backs of all. time. The thing that drives me is the same thing that has been driven me since I was a little kid.

And I've said it since I got into the league. And I don't mean it in an arrogant way. I want to be the best running backs ever play. Or at least one of the best running backs ever play. I don't think there's actually a way you can prove who's the best. But that's always been my motivation. You know, to be the best running back of all time or the best receiver, you have to have iconic moments. And when Barclay jumped over that player backwards, like, that's never been done by a running back. I mean, that's what Barry Sanders has. He has two or three of these iconic moves. Like Barry Sanders has two or three. Walter Payton's got a few of those. Marcus Allen's got a handful. Earl Campbell does. Bow Jackson does. Marshaun Lynch, that Beast mode run against the Saints in the

playoffs in Seattle. Like to be an all-time running back, it is such a unique position, all shapes and sizes and styles, that you have to have iconic moments. I think that when he leapt over the defender backwards, it was like, okay, that's never been done by a running back. I do think he has a chance to be two or three more years in Philly and a few more of those. I think he's in a very, very rarefied air. I don't think that's been done by anyone. I mean, they're putting it on the cover of a video game. It's crazy. I'm looking up lists of the best quarterback or best running backs ever. This isn't like an NBA discussion where you can stack, hey, all NBA, MVP, finals, all that stuff. I don't know. A lot of them have Jim Brown number

one. Now, I wasn't born. I don't even know if you were. It's tough for me to put a guy from the 1950s, early 60s on the list. But Barry Sanders is considered up there. Walter Payton, Emmett Smith, Ladani and Tomlinson, Adrian Peterson, Marshall Falk. I certainly think Seekwark could be a top 10 all time. The best running back I've ever seen, I've said it, multiple times was Walter Payton. You got the shiftyness. I would say pound for pound. He may be one of the strongest players in league history.

Walter Payton was insanely strong. I think Barry Sanders is second. And then I think there's about 12 guys, which includes, by the way, a healthy Christian McCaffrey. When Christian McCaffrey's healthy, he could be a slot receiver in the league. Let me ask you, you remember this guy, Thurman Thomas from the 90s, Buffalo Bears.

He did everything. He was like receiving, rushing. Like, Sequin better than him? It's really tough to quantify these things. And Sequin said that in his quote, like, I don't know how you judge that. Some of it is subjective, but I think Sequin certainly can be a top 10 all-time, maybe top five. Adrian Peterson, although he had many lists. Peterson could fumble it, wasn't great out of the backfield as a, you know, catching the ball.

But in terms of raw speed and power, I think Adrian Peterson's probably one of the top five I've ever seen play. And it helps Sequin's argument that he goes to the Eagles and they win the Super Bowl and he rushes for 2,000. right that matters kind of like Terrell Davis and John Elway final story Colin let's go to the Pittsburgh Steelers this is interesting so Arthur Smith is the OC and historically they've been a run-first offense but when you get D.K. Metcalf and Aaron Rogers do you still run it? Well here's Arthur Smith talking about merging those offensive philosophies. You'd love to be more balanced, you like obvious depending on how you want to attack this defense where you think their strengths witnesses are I mean that's the game he's played every Sunday

And obviously as your roster evolves, I mean, obviously we didn't bring Aaron in here and sign DK for all that money to go run the wishbone. So, you try to play to the strengths of your team. We'll see. Six years as a coach or a coordinator, one top 10 offense. I'm going to try to be, I'm going to be fair, fair-minded, but I'll stick with my 8-9, 9, and 8. I think it's going to be turbulent and rocky. Anybody who thinks Aaron Rogers is going to Pittsburgh to take his cues from Arthur Smith, hey, we're doing this.

You got another thing coming, okay? That's not how Aaron Rogers operates. Yeah, that's going to be an interest. Breer was the one who told us about this six months ago. He's like, yeah, I don't know how much sense that makes. Like, is that going to work? Arthur Smith, prickly guy. I'm not going to talk about him off the field,

but historically has clashed with coaches and quarterbacks. We'll see, Aaron. We'll see. Yeah, no, Arthur is very strong-willed. Arthur Smith is a very strong-willed coordinator. I'll just leave it at that. J. Mack with the news. Well, that's the news.

And thanks for stopping by. The Heard Lye News. So we were talking about this this morning about the New York Knicks and Charles Barkley kind of eviscerated the Knicks for their lack of a Tom Fibodil plan. They fired Tibbs. He was a really good coach. A bit of a grinder.

You know, he, you know, he's kind of got a Mike McCarthy feel to him. Like, you know, he's a competent coach. but, you know, he's not the sexiest hire. And the Knicks, you know, they fire him and don't have a replacement. But it is interesting. John Calapari's name came up yesterday. You know James Dolan loves stars. He's gone after Jason Kidd and IMA Aducah and Quinn Snyder and Billy Donovan.

And, you know, you're hearing Jay Wright. It's a lot of star coaches. And we were talking about this. New York sports teams, there are more bad decisions between the Jets and the Jets. Giants and the Knicks firing Tibado with no plans. The Brooklyn Nets, that silly Kyrie Hardin, KD. Mess. The Mets in 2020, we had the biggest payroll, could not make the playoffs. And I think a lot of it, I've always wondered, why do New York GMs, owners, and teams make such

awful decisions? A lot of smart people in New York. And my take is it's a very impatient market because it's got a very loud, relentless high volume media. And GMs and owners listen to it. You know, newspapers have died in this country, right? But not in New York, where you've got the Times

and the Daily News and the New York Post. It's still a great newspaper town. Sports Talk Radio. It is still, you know, WFAN. It's a loud, relentless, opinionated media, and it becomes, I think GMs overreact, and I think owners listen to it. And I mean, in like Los Angeles, I mean, I can only think in the last seven, eight years, one move that was a head scratcher, and that was Rob Polinka signing Westbrook.

Now, Westbrook worked for Denver. It did not work for the Lakers, and they quickly backed out of that. It did not work. But that's an exception. It's almost shocking if New York doesn't screw things up. And so when I look at what the Knicks created when James Dolan was distracted, building the sphere. Vegas or managing it or you know overseeing it they became very patient and very dedicated to their vision and their plan and then they just blew it up with no backup plan it's like what

what are we doing hello I mean it was a very clear culture uh crash the boards play defense Villanova pro style uh and get the ball to Jalen Brunson one great shot maker crash the boards be physical it it has It had a Villanova field to it. One's in Philly, one's in New York. That's what it felt like. And they blew it up. Now it's just, you might as well be the 2003 Knicks, 2008 Knicks.

It's just chaos. There's no vision, no plan. Tibbs was the culture creator. And again, that doesn't mean Tibbs is the most creative coach. That's not, that's not, I don't think he's the most creative coach. but I didn't look at their issues as a coaching issue. I looked them as personnel. They've got a lot of guys who are now increasingly expensive with holes.

Brunson doesn't defend. Either does cat. Robinson doesn't score. McHale Bridges is hot and cold as a shooter. So here's Charles Barkley from NBA TV last night, hammering the Knicks who fire a coach and a culture creator and have no plan afterwards. The Knicks got to be the stupidest damn people in the world. you don't fire no good coach like that and don't have a plan.

I mean, Tips did a hell of a job. Obviously something's going on now, but you don't have a plan. And now the three coaches turn you down, you've got to have a plan, man. And they don't have a plan. Now, I mean, I don't know what the hell they're going to do. You know what it reminds me of? Tibbs reminds me a little bit of Dan Campbell. Dan Campbell, I mean, the Parcells guys, the Jimmy Johnson guys, got loyalists.

And there are guys all over the NBA that love tips. You don't have any championships, but they go to these losing franchises with big brands. I mean, the Lions have been playing on Thanksgiving forever. It's a big brand. One of the first teams. You go back to Bobby Lane. I think that's who it was. You know, the Stafford years.

The Lions have had Barry Sanders, Calvin Johnson. They've been great, great players, right? And same with the Knicks. But you're always kind of thinking they underachieve as a franchise. And then they bring in a culture creator. You know, you don't have to love Dan Campbell. The guy, that team plays harder than any team in the league. And Tibbs' team, practice harder and played about as hard as any team in the league.

If you got rid of Dan Campbell and didn't have a replacement, be like, okay, you don't have to love Dan. He may not be the best schematic coach, and he's not. But if you take Dan out, you change the culture. culture. Tibbs is not the greatest schematic, offensive, creative guy, but if you take him out, your culture's gone. And that's what made the Knicks special. And it's actually what makes, along with their offensive line, it's what makes the

lion special. I remember Jay Mack and I talked about this about three years ago. They weren't winning yet. And they lost a game. I think they lost at home. Detroit did to Baltimore, a very good Ravens team with Lamar Jackson. And I remember their defense was awful. Detroit's defense was just awful.

And I'm thinking, this team plays so hard and they're so flawed. Jared Goff was finally getting a little time to throw. They'd hit an offensive lineman. And you're like, man, they are running through a wall for Dan Campbell. It was a personnel issue. And I think the Knicks is more of a personnel issue than anybody wants to admit. They've got a lot of lobsided players. Brunson, you know, he's taking the air out of the ball, can't really defend.

But he's a great shot maker. And Carl Anthony Towns wildly skilled, can't get him on the floor defensive. against the pick and roll. And Robinson, everybody loves Robinson, but he's useless late in the game offensively. So you have all these guys with, you know, limitations and ceilings, and we're blaming Tibbs. It would be like blaming Dan Campbell a few years ago. Like, you know, somebody told me this not long ago.

When you hire an NFL coach, you occasionally will get a guy like Andy Reid, who's a CEO and is good with schemes. But that's rare. hiring CEOs. That's what an NFL coach is. Occasionally, you get Shanahan, who's got his running theory, and he's the CEO. McVeigh, but you're really hiring CEOs. Big broad guys aren't necessarily on the headset, like Jimmy Johnson. Jimmy Johnson's a CEO. He's a walk-around coach. He's watching the receiver coach and the offensively. He's a walk-around coach. That's really what you're hiring. Sometimes you get lucky and you get both. But there's a

a lot of these culture guys don't ask culture guy to always be brilliant scheme guy. That's not what Vrabel is. That's not what Dan Campbell is. It's not that Vrable doesn't know schemes, but you know, Jim Harbaugh is a great example. Harbaugh's maybe the best culture guy in football in America in the last 20 years. He's an unbelievable culture guy. You know, Belichick was great defensively. He didn't know anything about offense.

Brady makes fun of his offensive knowledge or lack thereof. He's a culture guy. So I just, I don't, I don't get it. But I do think that the New York media is loud, it's present, it's opinionated, it's relentless. And I think it, it changes opinions, GMs and owners listen to it and make really bad decisions. And this was a really bad decision. At least have somebody in the offing, in the waiting. If you're going to get rid of them, you've got to have a deal basically an hour done, EMA, Oduca is at the airport and can come in for the press conference.

You've got to have some plan. to catch live editions of the herd weekdays in noon eastern 9 a.m. Pacific. Hey, we're Kavino and Rich. Fox Sports Radio every day, 5 to 7 p.m. Eastern. But here's the thing. We never have enough time to get to everything we want to get to. And that's why we have a brand new podcast called Overpromised. You see, we're having so much fun in our two-hour show. We never get to everything.

Honestly, because this guy is over-promising things we never have time for. Yeah, you blubber lips. Blame and me. Well, you know what? It's called Overpromise. You should be good at. because you've been over-promising women for years. Well, it's a Kavino and Rich after show, and we want you to be a part of it.

We're going to be talking sports, of course, but we're also going to talk life and relationships. And if Rich and I are arguing about something or we didn't have enough time, it will continue on our after show called Over-Promised. Well, if you don't get enough, Kavino and Rich, make sure you check out Over-Promis, and also uncensored, by the way. So maybe we'll go at it even a little harder. It's going to be the best after-show podcast of all time. There you go. Over-promising. And remember, you could see it on YouTube, but,

Definitely join us. Listen to Overpromised with Kavino & Rich on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, it's us to Jonas Brothers, and guess what? We have some big news. What's the news, huge news? We created our own podcast called, Hey Jonas. We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it.

We just contributed to it. We're the first people to do podcasts. Pretty, yeah, pretty wide range of podcasts throughout there. But this one's extra special. So how do we actually come up with a name, Hey Jonas, guys? I honestly don't remember I think it was on a call about what we should call it And we were thinking I'm originally calling it

One of the early names of our band Before Jonas Brothers This is how you guys remember it going down Yes I have a very different memory of this We were talking about a thing A bit for the podcast For people could call in and say hey Jonas And then I wrote down on my little notepad

Hey Jonas and offered it up as a potential title For the podcast But thanks for remembering that guys listen to hey jonas on the iheart radio app apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcast just listen we don't care where you hear it another podcast from some s nl late night comedy guy not quite unhumor me with robert smigel and friends me and hilarious guests from bob odenkirk to david letterman help make you funnier this week my guess s nl's mikey day and head writer streeter sidel help an acapella band with their between songs banter where does your group perform we do some

retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves. their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real.

From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context, and ask the questions everybody wants answered. SportsSlice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to Sports Slice on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slices Life 12 and the TikTok podcast. network on TikTok. The French Open is one of the toughest tests in tennis, and I know firsthand because I competed there myself. I'm Renee Stubbs, and on the Renee Stubbs Tennis podcast, I'm breaking down everything happening at Roland Garris, every match, every upset, and what it really

takes to win on Clay. Jenchian win. I mean, she went down in three to Rabakina, but I'm delighted. She's an outsider to win the French for me. And she likes Clay. Listen, Lerner Rabakina is, arguably the best player in the world right now. And I actually can win on any surface. Because if she's serving, well, good luck. Consider this your court side seat to the French Open. Listen to the Renee Stubbs tennis podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHeart Women's Sports. Rachel Nichols, top of next hour. So, J-MAC, this headline came down today. W.N. NBA television ratings down more than 50%.

We should probably do a study on that. I'm not sure why that would be. Oh, oh, wait since Caitlin Clark's injury. Okay, hopefully this is good news that she's coming back, and it's a reminder, ladies of the WNBA, she is the rising tide. This is not fever games just down. This is league ratings since she got hurt down 55%.

So she is essentially the sun at the beach. If she's not out, nobody else is. And by the way, there are great young players. Page Becker's dropped like 35. She was banged up. She's back. Asia Wilson. It's not a lack of talent.

Popularity in production are hard to measure. Remember how popular John Daly was on the tour? smoking and 16 Diet Coke today. He was wildly more popular than every golfer not named Tiger Woods. Alan Iverson got to one finals. He was wildly popular. He had cultural significance. I'm not here to tell you why.

And Caitlin Clark, like Iverson's a great player. But she equals ratings, revenue and relevance. And those three things the WNBA is dying for. So pro sports, I mean, even our business is an attention economy. And some people just get attention. And everybody's trying to grab their slice of equity or space. So be nice WNBA players to the lady that currently has her leg up because she's giving the league a leg up.

55%. And you know what that is, that's Jordan leaving the NBA. That's what it is. Jordan left the NBA. They lost 50% of their numbers. I mean, when Tiger left golf, the masters in the U.S. Open were still popular. This is different. This is like this is kind of unprecedented territory.

And again, you don't have to be the best player to be the most popular. I've said this before. I got nothing against Taylor Swift. Very pleasant. Seems adorable. Talented. I'm not disputing it. But her music doesn't move me.

But I mean, I'm watching the guy that won the Oscar last year. I think he won like his second Oscar. in acting, he doesn't move me, right? Like, whoever, whatever moves you, I can't explain. Generally, there is production behind popularity to some degree. And Caitlin's great. But, like, it's time to get over the angst. Like, she's changed the league.

She doesn't show up. It's like the sun going behind a cloud at the beach. It's not the same environment. You just got to come to terms with it. By the way, I saw this little note talking about. about Sequin Barclay. Remember a couple years ago, people were freaking out. Mostly the young media.

Nobody's running backs aren't getting paid. This is outrageous. We said, timeout. Running backs have value. Always have, always will, especially for young quarterbacks. The great thing about a running back, I'd actually rather have a great running back than a great wide receiver because, especially if you have a quality quarterback and a quality team, you're going to be at the end of games in the last couple of drives trying to get

first downs and eat the clock. Also, running backs are not affected by weather. You know, a great Tyreek Hill is wonderful, but do you have a quarterback that I can throw it deep? Who's really throwing it deep in January and February if you're playing outdoors and windy weather? Running backs are all-weather tires. Okay, you get them, it doesn't matter. And they also are great at preserving leads. Also, I don't have to have my quarterback to anything, but turn around and hand you the ball. So running backs were never going anywhere. And another example of that, Sequin Barkley, just unseated Patrick Mahomes as the leader in merchandise sales, officially licensed product sold. The leader in the NFL is a running back.

Now, after him, it's a quarterback, a quarterback, a quarterback, a quarterback, a quarterback, a quarterback, a past rusher, a receiver. Do you notice, do you notice America's team? How many, how many cowboy players do you see in that top of seven? Oh, they got one in the top 15. One. We've been on this now, Jay Mack, for two years. The Cowboys are not America's team. And a lot of that is TV ratings and merchandise sales.

They got one guy in the top 15. And their quarterback is nowhere to be seen in the top 20. Well, Eagles have two in the top three. Should they be America's? Just kidding, obviously. That is interesting. Two Detroit Lions in there? Yeah.

And not a quarterback. Wow. That list is certainly interesting, Calh. Where's my guy, Brock Purdy? He's not moving merch? Where is he? Oh, I think you have to be 6-2 to be on this list. Sorry, a cheap shot.

Cheap? I was joking. That's a low blow, coward. No, no. No, he's probably somewhere. He's probably 18, 20, something like that. I notice this is what's great about the NFL.

Look at the market sizes. You got a Cincinnati guy, a Green Bay guy, a Kansas City guy, another Kansas City guy, Buffalo guy, Detroit guys. You know the name that's not on there? Let me just double check before I sound like an idiot. Lamar Jackson, where's he? We had a guy here on the show yesterday

saying he's the best player in the league. He's got two MVP's. What's going on? It's really fun. money. I, I, I, that was my, my first person I looked for was Lamar. He is not on it. Now, I mean, Justin Herbert, who basically hides from the media, he's in the LA market. He's not on a neither. But Lamar, Lamar's had so much success. I don't, I can't really explain Lamar. I've said this before. Lamar, like I like watching the NFL. There are very few players

in the NFL. When their side of the ball is on the field, I can't turn the game off. He's electrifying. A totally electrifying talent. He's not as good, but I think he's more electric than Mahomes in terms of just a television product. I don't think there's any argument there. Of course. I mean, listen, let's be real. The Chiefs made the jump to light speed when Travis Kelsey started dating Taylor Swift.

They were not even close to Americans. You would admit that, right? And then as soon as Taylor Swift enters the chat, boom, they're on like every channel, streaming, TV, primetime, everything. So, you know, this Lamar thing's puzzling. It deserves further in-depth probing by you. He's a quarterback, he wins a lot, and he's dynamic. Why is he not in the top 15?

I don't have an idea. That's that's really interesting. Hour two, Rachel Nichols, it's the hurt. Hey guys, it's us. The Jonas Brothers. I'm Joe. I'm Kevin. And I'm Nick. And guess what?

We created our own podcast called Hey Jonas. We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to it. We get to ask other people to do podcasts. We get to ask other people questions because we're sick and tired of being asked questions. Well, sick and tired is a strong way to put it, but, you know. Tired and sick.

Tired and sick. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite. on Humor Me with Robert Smygel and Friends, me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier.

This week, my guest, S&L's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Winning on Clay is an art. The rallies are relentless. and at the French Open, only the toughest survive. I'd know. I competed there for decades. Join me, Renee Stubbs, on the Renee Stubbs' tennis podcast for no-nonsense breakdowns of the biggest matches, the toughest players, and the moments that define Roland Garros.

She's an outsider to win the French for me. And she likes Clay. Listen, Lerabachina is arguably the best player in the world right now, and I actually can win on any surface. Listen to the Renee Stubbs Tennis Podcasts on the I-Hart Radio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHeart Women's Sports. What's up, fam? It's Isaiah Thomas.

And I'm C.J. Toledano. It's our favorite time of the year on our podcast, Point Game, the playoffs. We're digging into the biggest surprises of the season. And I'm looking back on some of my greatest playoff moments. If we didn't talk ever again, I was finally. You just understood. That's how personal it got. Wow. Then after that Game 7, Marquis keep coming to him.

He's like, you know, I love you, dog. You know, it's all love. This was just playoffs. This was just basketball. So listen to Point Game on the Eye Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed human.