The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Hour 1 - What are Knicks thinking?

Episode Date: June 4, 2025

Jason McIntyre fills in for Colin reacting to the Knicks firing their head coach Tom Thibodeau despite New York having their best season in over 2 decades He believes Kevin Durant is no longer a winning player in today's NBA as the offseason approaches and the Suns are looking to offload the 36-year-old former MVP Jason also talks to NBA analyst Mitch Lawrence about what led to Thibodeau's dismissalSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Radio app by searching Fox Sports Radio or FSR. You're listening to Fox Sports Radio. Hello and welcome back to the herd. It's me, Jason McIntyre, here in L.A. On a Wednesday. And boy, do we have a spicy show ahead. I'm joined, as always, by Alex Curry. Alex, I had several people ask me about the ghost topic yesterday.

I brought up a ghost. And I know you're fired up about ghosts. No, okay. J-M-I-I-it. The way you see it. is like you think like white cheat scary no I'm talking about like energy so you can feel energies and it's funny because a lot of people bring it up to me too and it's all women who can feel it you see it we can't see anything no but women have like strong intuition I mean we're basically like

goddesses great life pretty much yeah I don't see the paper towel being empty the toilet paper I don't even see that stuff it's not like what you see cartoons and movies scoooooes terrifying uh all right so listen obviously obviously We got to start the show with the big news in the NBA yesterday. My New York Knicks, who finally seemed to get their act together, right? Greatest season this century. And they fire their coach, Tom Tibido. He gets fired yesterday and what, like the middle of the show?

Alex and I were stunned. That was closer to the end of the show. And one interesting nugget trickled out overnight regarding how this happened. Because remember, a lot of folks, myself included, thought maybe you just bring Tibur back and you run it back. You know, you guys, two games away from the NBA finals, took down the defending champion Celtics. Why not run it back?

But this nugget trickled out of the exit interviews. Apparently, when the Knicks were interviewing Josh Hart, Mikhail Bridges, Jalen Brunson, one certain person in the organization happened to sit in on those exit interviews. And that was James Dolan, who's largely been a ghost the last five years. You like that play on words there? Dolan has not been around the Knicks because he's been running the sphere in Vegas and getting that off the ground. And obviously that's a great win for Mr. Dolan.

But sitting in on the exit interviews and all of a sudden, boom, the head coach is gone. You have to wonder, did he hear something he didn't like? Well, we know that that something did not come from Jalen Brunson, who staunchly defended his coach after the Knicks were eliminated by the Pacers. We had a reporter say, well, what do you think about Tibbs? is he going to make it back? And Brunson was like, is that a real question? We know Brunson likes Tibbs. He's known Tibbs since he was a young guy.

Rick Brunson, his father, who's down on the Knicks staff, played for the Knicks. And like, there's a lot of internal stuff. Brunson and Tibido were copacetic. But what we do know is that Josh Hart had beef at points this season with Tibido. And McHale Bridges, as recently as the middle of March piped up, why aren't we playing our bench? Why are we playing so many minutes? What's going on here?

I mean, and the numbers bear it out. The Knicks starters average more points per game than any other starting unit in the last 45 years in the NBA. Tibbs does not trust his bench, right? That's very well-known. Happened in Chicago, unfortunately after that, you saw Derek Roseware down, you start Joe Kim Noah. Like these guys' careers, L. Dang, their careers kind of ended early because Tibbs ran him into the ground. And the next players clearly pushed back on that. Bridges actually mentioned in March.

Yeah, we got Landry Shamet. Why is he playing more? Well, Tibbs, I guess, saw the light and started playing Landry Shamet in the Pacer series. But unfortunately, it was a little bit too late. Landry Shamet couldn't save the day. So now you have to wonder, like, does this change the trajectory of, say, Carl Anthony Towns? Now, we know he is a Tibbs guy dating back to Minnesota. Is he all of a sudden on the trading block?

What happens? Michael Bridges, who has had for five first round picks and is looking for a big money extension. Do you pay him? Do you try to get three guys to create him in the aggregate next year? Does this mess everything up? But most importantly, where do the Knicks head for a head coach? And I do want to quickly defend Tibbs. Just give me a second.

There was a 19-year stretch where the Knicks won one playoff series, okay? Tibido has won four in the last three seasons. He has been successful. Look at this. Under Tom Tibido, five seasons, four playoff appearances. And you see that winning record there? I know this is going to be surprising. He has more wins with the Knicks than Pat Riley.

It's just a mind-blowing stat. Like Tom Tibto has been great. And we should also add, before Tibbs came on board, 18 seasons, 12 different head coaches. So they finally get their act together, and now we're back in the head coaching cycle for the Knicks. Who's going to be the next head coach? Well, you know, at the top of next hour, I'm going to reveal my five top names to replace Tibido and then a really spicy name that I haven't really seen Bandied about. It doesn't seem realistic, but I think there could be some potential there. What's going to happen next with the Knicks? Now, I do want to pivot to a really explosive report

in the athletic about Kevin Durant. And oh boy, folks, it don't look good for Kevin Durant. Let me start here by saying Kevin Durant is one of the 15 greatest players in the history of basketball, full stop. We all agree the guy won an MVP, carried OK seed to the finals, goes to Golden State wins two finals MVP's. His resume speaks for itself. Kevin Durant has had an incredible career.

It's inarguable. That being said, we know sports are, what have you done for me lately? And in some ways, you know, Kevin Durant is the guy who used to be an A-list actor and get all the first look at scripts. And now he's not getting any looks. I mean, Nick Cage comes to mind, you know, won an Academy Award for leaving Las Vegas. What has that guy done lately? Where's Nick Cage the last 10 years?

Can he open a movie? No shot. I mean, Will Smith. Will Smith has an unbelievable movie resume. I mean, I Am Legend is like probably one of my top 10 movies of all time. I love Will Smith as an actor. Again, is he getting any good looks anymore? What are they starting filming Bad Boys 4?

You know, like that's where Kevin Durant is in his career. I don't know if anybody wants them. And I know at the trade deadline. There were teams involved and talking to the Sons. You had reports, I'm going to put those in air quotes, report that five teams wanted Kevin Durant. Well, the latest report in the athletic is that the Phoenix Suns keep calling the Houston Rockets and the sons keep lowering their asking price.

Kevin Durand is 36, and we know he's still a bucket. Okay, that's obvious. Kevin Durant, he can give you 25 points a night. That's great. Yeah, so can Mo Wagner and Jalen Green. I mean, these guys are 10 years younger, and they can score almost what Kevin Durant does. And Kevin Durant is also kind of an order. prickly fellow who, oh, by the way, has not been great in the playoffs lately.

Guys, the Super Team Sons, yes, DeBook, Durant, and Bradley Bill qualifies as a Super Team. That's three all NBA players joining forces. They didn't even make the playoffs this year, okay? Kevin Durant has been swept in two of his last three trips to the playoffs. And yes, both were with super teams. Need I remind you, the Super Team fiasco in Brooklyn. which is really deserves its own 30 for 30. It was a Hindenberg, okay?

They got swept in his last playoff appearance by Jason Tatum in the Celtics. Like Kevin Durant in the postseason is not what he used to be. Again, you could love KD, and he's a bucket, but he's turning 37 in September. Here's Rick Buechre earlier this week talking about the trickiness of how to move Kevin Durant. The tricky part is, are you just getting him as a one-year rental? or is he going to sign an extension? Do you want to sign him to extension?

What does that extension look like? There's a lot of tricky parts to that, to your point, because of KD's age. I just don't know what the market is for Kevin Durant. So I started looking at the standings and teams that could be close and looking at Kevin Durant's $54 million contract next year. And yeah, okay, sure, he's going to give you 25, 27 points a game. He don't want to be a leader.

So if you expect Kevin Durant to go to a young team and maybe be that leader, be that agent of change who's going to take them up the next step, and I'll toss one out there. We know Kevin Durant went to the University of Texas. He loves Austin, has a very big affinity for the city. Hey, the San Antonio Spurs. Could that work?

Wembe Nyama, Deeran Fox, Kevin Durant, maybe that's something? And then you look at what the Spurs are and you're like, okay, well, We're not giving up Stefan Castle to rent Kevin Durant for one year. Is Wembe Njama and KD? Is that doing anything in the West? And I look around, the Houston Rockets, folks,

they would rather chase Janus than go after Kevin Durant. I mean, I don't, you know, a couple years ago, Kevin Durant, you know, he grew up in the D.C. area. It's a legend in Maryland growing up. And I floated the idea, why wouldn't he go to the Wizards, you know, and join forces with like John Wall and Bradley Beale. This is way back. And it's like, Wizards are one of the worst.

teams in the league right now. I mean, is that the kind of thing where we're going to see Kevin Durant end up on a bad team? Somebody in our morning meeting floated. What about the Atlanta Hawks? KD, Trey Young, Jalen Johnson coming back from me. I don't know. And again, I'm a huge Kevin Durant fan. Yes, we've had our online beefs a few times over the years, but I love him as a basketball player. I don't love the, I just want to hoop. I don't want to be a leader thing. I mean, could we see him in Detroit to help the Pistons get over the top? But then you look at the Piston salaries, and it's like, okay, are we dumping any of our good young players? Hey, we need Ansar Thompson.

You're not getting him. Not for Kevin Durant for one freaking year. And the more we talk about KD and you read stories about the son's lowering their asking price, you start to wonder like, geez, are the son's going to have to attach a draft pick, assuming they have any left, to get off Kevin Durant? Are we in a world where Kevin Duran is close to ending his career like Patrick Ewing did with the Seattle Sonics? You guys remember Olajewan wearing a Raptor's jersey? I mean, Carl Malone's sitting on the bench with the Lakers?

Like, we're not, and this is like a year or two away maybe for Kevin Duran. He's either going to have to have a big reality check and understand, dude, I'm not that guy anymore. Or Kevin Doreen's going to have to change his ways and say, you know what, I will be a lot. I will be a leader for a young team. Because if I need 25 points, I'll go get Tyler Hero. Sorry, I don't think Kevin Durant's defense is that superior to what you're getting at $54 million playing the position he does. And I'll leave you with this. Like, again, I don't want to be seen as taking jabs at Kevin Durant.

But at this stage in the game, like, what do you do with him? Is there a world where nobody wants Kevin Durant? As shocking as that sounds, I think we're getting close to Kevin Durant not really getting the interest that he thought he would. So he goes super teams, and now he goes kind of out with a whimper. All right, coming up next here on the herd, an NFL star, yes, star, is throwing around the R word. Retirement. We'll tell you who that is next here on the herd. Be sure to catch live editions of the herd weekdays in noon Eastern 9 a.m. Pacific on Fox Sports,

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We just contributed to a... We're the first people to do podcasts. Pretty, yeah, pretty wide range of podcasts. We're starting a trend. But this one's extra special. So how did we actually come up with a name, Hey Jonas, Jonas, guys? I honestly don't remember. I think it was on a call about what we should call it.

And, well, we were thinking I'm originally calling it one of the early names of our band before Jonas Brothers. This is how you guys remember it going down? Yes. I have a very different memory of this. We were talking about a thing, a bit for the podcast, people could call in and say, hey, Jonas. And then I wrote down on my little notepad, Hey Jonas, and offered it up as a potential title for the podcast. But thanks for remembering that, guys. Listen to Hey Jonas on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your

podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are

trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves, their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context and ask the questions everybody wants answered. SportsSlice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to SportsSlic on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever

you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slices Life 12 in the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. The French Open is one of the toughest tests in tennis. And I know firsthand because I competed there myself. I'm Renee Stubbs, and on the Renee Stubbs tennis podcast, I'm breaking down everything happening at Roland Garris. Every match, every upset, and what it really takes to win on Clay. Jenchian won. I mean, she went down at three to Rabakina, but I'm delighted.

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Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHeart Women's Sports. Back here on the herd, Jason McIntyre in for Colin Cowherd. I don't know about you guys, but I know a lot of dudes who do this. You know, you're on a vacation and you instantly think like, oh man, I can't wait to retire. hire. And you start bandying about retirement plans where you go. Obviously, you've got to be in a nice area, ideally near an airport, because you want to travel a lot in retirement. But everybody loves thinking about retirement, but not quite like NFL players do. Sequin Barclay, who is just coming off like one of the greatest running back seasons we've seen. Two thousand yards,

goes to the Super Bowl, wins a Super Bowl. He went on a podcast this week with Chris Long, the Greenlight podcast. And out of nowhere, Sequin Barclay starts talking about retirement. Here we go. I'll probably one of those guys that it would be out of nowhere. Like, I'll probably just wake up one day, whether it's next year or two years or four years. Like, and it's like, yeah, it's over. One of my favorite plays of all times is probably my favorite play at all time is Barry Sanders.

So probably similar to that. Maybe one day, like, it'll be out of nowhere. I'll probably be bawling and just be like, yeah, call it quits. Now, I will say that sounds pretty amazing. Obviously, Sequan Berkeley's made generational wealth in, you know, just a small run here in the NFL over the last decade. And we've seen other big-time names retire early. Barry Sanders, obviously, as Sequin alluded to, Aaron Donald, Calvin Johnson. And you never know how, like, a franchise is going to shake out.

So I'm sure some Eagles fans heard this and we're like, oh, we might lose Seiquot. Oh, it's going to be okay, guys. Take a deep breath. I did not realize this. I had to look it up. So the Philadelphia Eagles from 2018 to 2024 have the fifth most wins in the NFL in that span. The only teams of more wins, the chiefs, obviously. The Baltimore Ravens, who, let me see here.

No, they haven't made a Super Bowl in that duration. The Buffalo Bills, have they made a Super Bowl? No, they have not. the Green Bay Packers and the Philadelphia Eagles. Eagles at five. Guys, in the last eight years, the Eagles have made the Super Bowl three times. Two with Jalen Hertz and one with Nick Foles. Nick Foles obviously filling in for the injured Carson Wentz. I guess what I'm getting at here is I get it.

Sequin will be a huge loss. Like, you know, you saw Christian McCaffrey go down for the Niners last season? They were kind of lost because McAfree does so much. Sequin does a lot of that with the Eagles and did it this past year as good as you can imagine. But if he leaves, are the Eagles in like rough shape? I like to say running backs matter. We've gone back and forth on the show over the last couple of years. Like running backs are back.

They matter. They're almost undervalued. I mean, there's tight ends in the league. And I'm not talking the elite guys. I'm not got second tier guys who were making Sequin Barclay money last year. Like, you know something's up with that. tight ends are getting like maybe eight targets a game maybe 10. Sequo starts with the ball 20 to 30 times a game.

And the idea of losing him probably scares some Eagles fans. But I'm going to remind you, they got to the Super Bowl with Nick Foles. You can't even name the running backs that they got to the Super Bowl with the first time with Jalen Hertz. And so now they get Barclay and yes, they win the Super Bowl. Obviously very, very nice. But let's not act like it's the end of the world if Seekoine Barkley wants to I don't know, enjoy a media career down the road. I'm sure he'll start a podcast.

Everybody does. But I think the Eagles are going to be just fine, and I've got to give Howie Rosen's some credit. I will say one of the bigger whiffs I've had in the last 15 years was Chip Kelly ascends to the Eagles, and right out of the gate, they're really good. Remember Chip Kelly, Mike Vic, I still remember that first game together.

Mike Vic throwing an unbelievable bomb. I was like, ah, this is going to be the greatest show. And then Chip Kelly had like that war in the front office with Howie Roseman. And Chip Kelly for a minute won that battle. And I was like, Team Chip Kelly, he's a football guy. The guy was a genius at Oregon. I'm all in on Chip Kelly. It petered out pretty quickly.

Howie Roseman gets back in good graces and whatever he learned during that time of being jettisoned by Chip Kelly, Howie Roseman figured things out. I mean, this guy has clearly become one of the sharpest minds in building a roster in the league. And I looked at the Eagles roster. You could go pro football focus wherever you want. They got young studs everywhere. Cornerback, defensive line, linebacker. This team is stacked. Remember when they lost their center? There was some concern. Oh, you know, Kelsey, one of the best centers in the league. Didn't miss a beat. They just seemed to find guys everywhere. And a lot of that goes to Howie Rosen. So I know Sequin would be a huge loss to the Eagles.

And obviously the NFL. He's fun and exciting. He's on the cover of Madden. Had this seminal move in the NFL last year jumping backwards over a dude. But I think the Eagles are going to be just fine because they're built for the long haul. Let's go to Alex Curry with the news.

No, no, no, no, no. Turn on the news. This is the herd line news. J. Mack, I also don't have a problem with guys going out at the top of their career. Hell, right? That's like, that's legendary. Yeah.

It's legendary. Okay. Well, it's efficient. Especially the summer of soccer on Fox and US men's national team head coach Mauricio Pucatino was on the podcast recently and made some bold claims about American soccer star Christian Polisik comparing him to one of the best soccer players of all time. Take a listen. I think Christian in the last year, I think it was showing a great quality and he's performing, you know, in Europe

and also he's performing here in the national team. He is a very talented player that can help us to win. Of course. I don't want to be respectful with Messi or with Pursy or Pooly or Pooleu or with Macy, but I think in this country, police should be our message. Because it's an iconic player and the kid on the street, for sure if you ask one soccer player in this country, it's police. So yeah, obviously this is what the U.S. has been struggling with for decades.

We don't have a superstar and we're not winning at the international level at these international tournaments. And if you want to be a popular team across any sport in the United States, you're going to win. That's what people follow. They follow winners. And I think that's that's what needs to happen. It sounds like they got the right guy. And he put, uh, Puchatino has coached like Bapet, Messi, Namar, Harry Kane, Paul Palmer, like he's coached some of the biggest names. They just hired him last September. And he's, I mean, he's, I mean, he's, done a lot of great things for other teams. He led Tottenham to Champions League Final in 2019, PSG to League of one title in 2021. So, like, he has a track record of taking teams

and taking them to the top. But the one thing the United States, the US-Mes national team has lacked is the results and the talent to compete with the rest of the world. And that's what you need. I'm always reluctant when guys are going to invoke, like, the greatest of all time. can't. I mean, but then again, it gets pickup when he says messy. If he says, oh, he could be our Harry Kane. Yeah. I don't, we're probably not doing the segment.

No. However, you know, I'm a soccer guy. I know. I made sure we got Alexi Lollas on the show, so he's coming in later. I'm not sure when this podcast was recorded. Yeah. Because there's a lot of holistic stuff right now that is not good. Like, he's not going to be playing with us in summer.

But there's also, like, a lot of their key players aren't playing with the team this summer. So it's not just politic. It's, there's a handful of guys. And I think it was like, well, if they're all not going to be there, like, why do I need to be the one of the team? They're not the face of the team. Lallis is probably going to go in. Oh, yeah. We're going to dive into that.

I'm looking forward to that. But I want to give this coach a chance, so I'm not going to make a big deal out of this. No. Let's just win some frigging games. How about that? We need to see results. We need to see results at the international level at these big tournaments. Yeah.

That's what we need to see. And then let's have a conversation about it. Like our U.S. women's national team. Back-to-back World Cup champs, Olympic gold medal champions. Like, that's what you need to do if you want to gain some traction and a fan base and a face of the country and superstar, like a messy. That's what you need to do. All right, let's transition to the NBA. Adam Silver was on breakfast ball this morning, and he addressed the conversation around small markets like OKC and Indiana, making the NBA finals.

Here he is earlier today. It's been intentional from our standpoint to create a system. a collective bargaining agreement that allows more teams to compete. And just by way of background, you know, we're going to have to go through a process of getting to the point where people are accustomed to tuning into the finals because the two teams that deserve to be there and it's the best basketball. Similar to, again, with the Super Bowl, if I asked somebody if they were going to watch the Super Bowl, they wouldn't say who's playing.

It's a national holiday. And now that's Nirvana. But the Super Bowl, every team has superstar players. These small market teams in the NBA don't necessarily have that star power that's going to drive ratings. And it's going to drive people to plan their days and plan their events around these NBA finals. Like, I hang out with a lot of casual sports fans, 50-50 sports fans. And I've named off like a couple of the stars in the finals. And I saw blank faces.

I'm like, okay, this is going to be a situation where if it's on, if you're somewhere and it's on the background, you're going to turn around like, Oh, cool. NBA finals. Not playing your whole day around. Okay, let's get together. Let's get here. Let's go here. And make sure we're sat for this game.

So you've seen the movie, Karate Kid, obviously, legendary movie, definitely top ten. So after, sorry for the spoiler alert on a movie from the 1980s. But Daniel uses the crane kick, takes down Johnny. Yeah. And then they show Pat Marita, aka Mr. Miyagi, just kind of nodding his approval. You know, that's like a meme. Yes. When I hear Adam Silver saying, it's been intentional.

Uh-huh. Uh-huh. That's what I said. That's what all these people yelled at before. Oh, that's not, yeah, I'm sure the league wants Indiana and OKC. Adam Silver is saying that's what we want. That's why we have new rules. I was frigging right.

I'm sorry. I had to do that. No, you were. It's interesting because you think it's what you want. And then when they see the ratings and the results, you're going to have to kind of rethink that. So we, I've been workshopping something, um, Major League Baseball. Yeah.

Has not had a back-to-back champion in like 24, 20, something like that. So a long, over two decades. Yeah, back to the Yankees? Uh, yeah, the Yankees were the last. Early 2000s, yeah. Yet somehow in the last few years, they seem to be going back toward super teams. Yeah, Yankees and Dodgers, World Series. They're going towards super teams.

Yes. The NBA is saying we don't want super teams. Alex. It's going to hurt you on my run. I'm just telling you. I said it yesterday. Yeah. Give me super teams or give me death.

And I'm just telling you right now, we need stacked teams in the NBA with stars merging to get the polarization going. I know the diehard fans are going to be like, oh, Jason, this is going to be great basketball. Man, nobody cares. You have to remember, sports are entertainment. People want to be entertained. And the way you draw in the casual fan is big names and superstars. You see this in movies and TV shows. It's the same thing with sports.

When you have a recognizable name and a big face of the league or face of the franchise or a super team, it's going to draw people to watch the game, to create their events around the game. Like you're going to get the ratings. You're going to get the viewership. You're going to get the jersey. sales right there. Oh, okay. What?

I just thought of this. So the Pacers are huge under them, right? Yes. I think Indiana is, sorry, OKC is like minus 700, 800, you know it would be great for the NBA? Yeah. If the Indiana Pacers won the series. Yeah.

And then OKC said, we gotta go get Kevin DeWry. Bring him back. That's the kind of thing that would be freaking amazing. It would be. Because the fans hated Katie for losing. And now they need him. Well, if they lose to the Pacers, they need something. You can't run it back losing to Indiana as heavy favorites.

Okay. Yeah. Not. Hot take. Very. It's a hot take. Plus, he needs a home. He does.

And bargain price is going down. Okay. Last story here. Austin, Angi has hired a new president of basketball operations for the Utah Jazz. He comes from Boston, where he started his NBA career in both cases. Austin's dad. Danny played a prominent role on the team that hired Austin. So I don't care what you say.

This is an M-O-Baby situation. He was hired by his dad in Boston, now in Utah. But again, like, it's not necessarily a bad thing, right? He grew up around the game. He worked his way up, but he got his foot in the door and got an upper hand because of his dad. His dad played a prominent role in both of his hires. similar situation when everyone was getting mad at LeBron James

for Brony getting drafted. So I want to see that same kind of energy and that same kind of fire in this situation because it is. Like you got into a certain situation because your father was also involved in that situation. And again, I don't think

Nep- Like, Neppel baby is necessarily a bad thing in all situations because you grew up in that setting. You are probably more prepared and suited for a lot of these situations like this. And you're still putting in the work and you're still working your way up. But yes, this is a nepo baby situation on the executive side. So by the way, did you read that article in the New York magazine like, I don't know, three years ago about nepo babies? It's like a lot of them have actually done good things after given the opportunity. Yes.

Shocker, how that works out. It's just you just get a foot in the door, but then you have to do the work. Yeah. You have to do the work. So like Brani had his chance up and down, whatever. I don't think it's a bad thing. Yeah. So now.

You grew up in the situation. Your article Monday was he's going to be maybe a rotation. Yeah. Okay. You've got a chance to prove yourself. Good for him. Yeah. Now, I will say this about age.

If he was so great in Boston. Yeah. For I think I saw 16, 17 years. Yeah. Why did nobody else make a run at it? And then his dad hires him in Utah. Again, I'm not saying he's not worthy. No.

And Danny Aange is a legend. He went to BYU, like, multiple sport athletes. Like, really, one of the greatest athletes in the state's history. He's going to be able to call his shots. So, I'm with you. Yeah. If you want to bash Nepo Babies, you've got to go after Danny. You got to do this, too.

Yeah. But, Alex, I'm going to go ahead and guess. Yeah. That nobody gives a flying, you know what? Yeah. About the Utah Jazz. Yeah. And, you know, if we're being real here,

uh, the jazz were the worst team in the league. They tanked. They wanted the number one pick. They ended up at $5. Like, you can't tank again. Yeah. Like, what's a point? So you're going to have to actually do some work.

I'm wishing this guy the best. Again, I'm not bashing it. He was at, what, championship team? Like, he's been around. Yeah, he was with the Celtics. Yeah, so it's, he's been in the game for a while. He knows what he's doing. So, you know, prove yourself.

Can he make a big move and say, hey, I have a great relationship with Jalen Brown. Let's trade for Jalen Brown. I'm just spitballing. I'm not going to. Obviously, they're not going to get jay. I'm not going to say. Anything could happen in summer, but it just feels like maybe something is afoot. Utah's going to make a big splash.

Yeah, it should. Alex Curry with the news. Well, that's the news. And thanks for stopping by. The Herd Lie News. Wow, how about this tease? Who was behind the ouster of Tom Tibido in New York? We head to the Big Apple to find out next what happened to Tom Tibido.

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Huge news. We created our own podcast called, Hey Jonas. We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to it. We're the first people to do podcasts. Pretty, yeah, pretty wide range of podcasts. We're starting a trend.

But this one's extra special. So how do we actually come up with a name, Hey Jonas, guys? I honestly don't remember. I think it was on a call about what we should call it. And we were thinking I'm originally calling it. one of the early names of our band before Jonas Brothers was...

This is how you guys remember it going down? Yes. I have a very different memory of this. We were talking about a thing, a bit for the podcast where people could call in and say, Hey Jonas. And then I wrote down on my little

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I'm Renee Stubbs, and on the Renee Stubbs tennis podcast, I'm breaking down everything happening at Roland Garris, every match, every upset, and what it really takes to win on Clay. Jenchen win. I mean, she went down at three to Rabakina, but I'm delighted. She's an outsider to win the French for me. And she likes Clay. Listen, Lina Rabakina is arguably the best player in the world right now,

and I actually can win on any surface, because if she's serving, well, good luck. Consider this your court side seat to the French Open. Listen to the Renee Stubbs tennis podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHeart Women's Sports. Welcome back into the herd. We've got to go to New York now to figure out who put the knife and Tom Tibuto's back. It's got a Mitch Lawrence, who's covered the Knicks forever.

NBA writer, host Sirius XM. He's got an amazing background there, as you could see. see. All right, Mitch, so we were talking during the commercial break, and you described the garden as a pit full of vipers. Can you kind of break down what happened? Because Tippino just led the mix to their best season this century, and then he gets axed. Yeah, I mean, he had their best playoff run since 1999, and the fans were partying like it was 1999, and all of a sudden, he's the guy who's the scapegoat. It is, listen, the garden front office is, full of vipers.

These are guys who have their own agendas, whatever they are. They leak stuff to the media. They want certain people and certain people out, and they add it in for Tom. It goes beyond basketball. Jason, it goes beyond he didn't develop a bench. It goes beyond guys didn't know their roles. It goes beyond, you know,

he didn't have an offensive imagination. This goes beyond all that stuff. And now we're going to see who Jim Dolan, the owner, you know, who gets his ear and who he talks to and who they set a lot of. as the next coach, it's a this is what I, when I was, you know, based in New York and at the New York Daily News doing 21 years of NBA columns,

this was familiar ground for anybody who dealt with the Knicks and dealt with Jim Dolb. It is a, it's a treacherous place if you're a coach because you're the guy who's the face of the franchise. They don't let Leon Rose talk. Dolan doesn't talk. So Tom Tivito was the guy who had to talk. They don't help, nobody's held accountable

in terms of Leon Rose or Jim Dolan. and stuff like this happens. It's a very, it's run differently than any other organization, and it's been unsuccessful in a lot of ways. You know, it's the anti-Spers, anti-Maiami, whatever you want to call it, they do things their own way. And for the most part, before time came on board, they were irrelevant and a dumpster fire.

And they, I think Nick fans probably fear now, that's the road they're headed back on. Yeah, especially if you don't make the right hire. So who would you say has the biggest pull or the most pull in making the higher? Is it Dolan who's kind of been out of the mix? You know, he was with the sphere in Vegas building that. Is it Leon Rose? Do the players have a say here?

We know it's a player's league. I mean, Jalen Brunson couldn't save Tibbs. But how do you break that down? Jailen Brunson liked Tibbs. And they didn't listen to him. So you also have to wonder what that means for him, especially if they get rid of his father who's on the bench. I think that has to be a concern for Nick fans too.

Listen, I think it's going to probably be a few people. It'll be Leon Rose. They'll run it by Dolan. Dolan will do his checks. It's hard to tell. It's because nobody really talks publicly. What they should do is have Leon Rose out there today to say, this is why we fired Tom Tivit.

I'm going to take questions and answers. And by the way, this is what we're looking for in our next coach to give people an idea of what they're going for but the nicks don't do things like that like other teams they don't make people they know the pat riley goes public after his team gets wiped off the court against cleveland and he owns up to stuff the nicks don't do that so you never know their game plan so it's very hard to say exactly how it's all going to run or who's going to have the power who's going to you know who wants who out there it's oh you're always dealing with a lot of mystery at the guard.

Yeah, and it feels like, I don't know if you use the word accountability, but like, Leon Rose, like, shouldn't you step up and meet the media and talk about this? I mean, that seems like the way we should do it, no? Everybody does it that way in the league. I mentioned Pat Riley, Brad Stevens, when thing went south for Boston for this year, the standing champs, he met with the media. I think you had Darry and Nick Nurse meeting Philadelphia. Nobody had a worse year expectation-wise than probably Philadelphia.

you. Jen Dolan doesn't want his people like Leon Rose and other GMs before him to speak publicly. You kind of has an, you know, you hear teams having a media policy. He has an anti-media policy. That's for as long as I, you know, for the longest time. And a lot of it dates back to that sexual harassment case and, you know, post that in 2007. That's already 18 years where Isaiah Thomas and the Knicks got in big trouble, cost Dolan $12 million. After that, the least, the least league basically held sway David Stern over the Knicks. That's when they hired Don't Walsh. Jim Don't listen to the NBA then.

But since then, he does things his way. He's not going to have Leon Rose at all talk to the media. The next coach will be the face of the franchise, just like Tom was, Tom Tibido, which adds to the pressure of the job in New York. Now you're the coach, not only you have to coach the team, prepare the team, now you're also the face and the voice of the franchise. It puts a lot of pressure on that next coach. Besides the fact that obviously the next coach has a very high bar,

you've got to come in, you've got to win 11 playoff games. Because Tom is just one of your ten. I'm going to throw some names at you. You tell me your thoughts. But first, the Phoenix Sons have just announced that they have hired Cavs assistant Jordan Ott, you know, whoever that is. I don't know that that is a move based on what the Knicks are doing, but there is a guy Johnny Bryant

whose name is being bandied about as a potential Knicks candidate. I don't think you go from Tom Tibido to Johnny Bryant, do you? Well, I don't think so either, but that doesn't mean it can happen, and he seems to be the front runner right now. He was

in New York. Now, you mentioned Jordan not getting the Phoenix job. Johnny Bryant was also up for that job. So now he works in Cleveland for Kenny Atkinson, but he had been in New York he's familiar with the front office people are familiar with him he's got he's got people who hope he gets his job you have people who from my understanding who hope he doesn't get the job

listen if you think you're a championship contender and i don't think the nix are i think they're a decent cut below with that roster with their two best players being one-way offensive players and defensive liabilities i'm talking about jalen brunson and carl anthony towns you've built around those guys. I don't think you can bring in a guy like a Johnny Brian who's never been a head coach, certainly, you know, and all of a sudden entrust him to actually exceed what Tom Tibito did. I think that's an impossible spot for him,

and I think that's a thing that I think Nick fans have to be worried about. Yeah. Michael Malone was fired by Denver maybe two months ago. Yeah. He feels like Tibado 2.0 doesn't like to play young guys, rides his starters. That was an issue for Tibbs. I would cross Michael Malone off the list.

Your thoughts? Just based on that, well, I will say this. If you go back to his Denver team, and he had Yokic. I know SGA is the MVP, but this is like back in the Michael Jordan era. Well, Carl Malone won the MVP. We all knew that Michael Jordan was the best player in the world.

Just like now, we know that Yokic is the best player in the world. He only had a bench of basically three guys. Jeff Green, Bruce Brown, Bruce Brown and Christian Brown. That's it. They won the title that way. So if you're hung up on this bench nonsense that he won't play your bench. I mean, think of it this way.

Tom Tibado, is he really the first coach in the history of the NBA and maybe sports to get fired? Because he didn't develop a bench. It's absurd. It's absurd. Look who's on his bench. Mike Malone had a great bench with those three players versus what Tom Tibido had to work with. But anyway, that's a whole different story. I would hire Mike Malone.

He knows New York. His father coached in New York. I knew Brendan Malone when he was an assistant in Syracuse when I started out in the newspaper racket in 1980. I go back that far when Michael Malone was running around and basically diapers. Yeah. I think he's a hell of a coach.

Now, 10 years in Denver, long time. Won a title? Maybe got a little full of himself. That's what people say. I don't know. I haven't talked to Mike since then. But he's a very good coach. and let's not forget,

where was he before he landed in Denver and did a great job, their first title ever? He was in Sacramento. He did a great job there for a franchise that continues to, you know, I mean, that's just like total dysfunction out there, except for a few moments, right?

Except for a very few moments. And Mike Malone did a good job there. I think Nick fans would actually say, you know what? If we got Mike Malone, yeah, we can go places and not worry about what he did with his bench in Denver. look at his accomplishments. The only thing though, Jason is, is he going to come in? You're going to

say, well, you know, let's see how he does without Yokin. That's fair. Yeah, that's that. All right, let me throw one more. He's currently coaching the Dallas Mavericks, and his name is Jason Kidd. He played with the Knicks, obviously. He was not brought in to talk about the Luca deal. He looked shell-shocked at the press conference afterward. Are the Nixon upgrade from the Maths? I don't know. Jason Kid's an interesting name. It is an interesting name. You know, if you look at the Knicks in terms of where they are in the east, you know, Indiana is there. Now Boston's not going to have Tatum for probably a year, but they're going to be back. You've got Detroit on the rise. Orlando. We'll see what happens in Milwaukee with Janus.

The Knicks, you know, they're probably going to take a step back with a new coach. I don't know how Jason, First of all, he has a job in Dallas. Like, you raised the point with his roster. He's not going to have Kyrie Irving for a while. He'll have Anthony Davis. We know that Anthony Davis cannot stay on the court at points. But he's going to get Cooper Flagg, right? It sounds like they're going to keep that draft pick

and they'll pick Cooper Flag. So it would have to be some sort of a trade to get Jason Kidd. They're going to have to get some sort of compensation. And who knows what Nico Harrison and Patrick Dumont, the owner, are thinking these days about Jason Kidd. I have no idea. All I know is that the Maverick fans are still irate that Luca Dantzsche's a Laker.

That has not gone away. Yeah. Mitch Lawrence, NBA writers, serious XM host, great stuff. I like the blue Knicks shirt, Turtleneck. Nice job, Mitch. Thanks a lot, man. Thanks for having me, Jason, enjoyed it. Yeah.

Interesting stuff. He's bullish on Michael Malone. Listen, I was pushing Michael Malone's name a month ago when the Knicks were struggling against Detroit. And I was like, I don't know, if they, if they can't get by Detroit, just get tips out of here bringing them alone. Then they beat the Celtics. And I'm like, just keep tips. So coming up next, I will give you my top five Nick's Coaches wish list and a special bonus.

That's next to you. I'm going to. Hey, guys, it's us. The Jonas Brothers. I'm Joe. I'm Kevin. And I'm Nick. And guess what?

We created our own podcast called, Hey, Jonas. We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to it out. We're the first people to do podcasts. We get to ask. other people questions because we're sick and tired of being asked questions. Well, sick and tired is a strong way to put it, but, you know, tired and sick.

Tired and sick. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smigel and Friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel.

Help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in.

I'm Timbo, and every episode, we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the biggest moments in sports and giving you. you the real story behind the headline. And we're going straight to the source, the athletes themselves, their locker room stories, their reactions in the moment, and the stuff nobody gets to hear. Listen to SportsSlic. On the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slicalife 12 in the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. I'm Michelle McPhee, and I've been unraveling the strangest criminal alliance I've ever reported on, a Mormon polygamist and an Armenian businessman. Multi-million dollar house,

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