The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Hour 1 - Where will Shedeur Sanders land?

Episode Date: April 3, 2025

Colin understands why Colorado quarterback Shedeur Sander is falling down draft boards but believes NFL teams would be making a big mistake if that ends up being the case. He explains why he continues to root for Shohei Ohtani as a Dodger following another walk off homerun from the superstar Thoughts on the Lakers-Warriors game tonightSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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It is a very good Thursday show. Yeah, Lakers Warriors tonight, actually a huge regular season game. Things are cooking in L.A. where Shohei O'Donnie pulled off his magic again last night. Dodgers, once you get to the seventh, eighth inning, you better have a strong bullpener. It's over. It doesn't matter what the score is. J. Mack is joining me on a Thursday today.

So the story, you know, whether it's politics or sports or the Oscars, keep your eye on the betting odds. because it does always feel like people in Vegas or people overseas have a little bit of insight. They're in the rumor business, but a lot of times where there's smoke, there's fire. So J-Mack, Travis Hunter has moved ahead of Shadur Sanders, the Colorado quarterback, in the betting odds to be the number three pick. So we know Cam Ward's going one, and it looks like Shadur Sanders is falling, which is generally the closer you get to a draft, quarterbacks, they move up. Last year, remember, Mel Kuyper said a week before the draft, Bo Nix and Michael Penix are high second round picks.

Well, Pennix went eight, and Bo Nix went 12 to Denver. So, you know, a lot of times you hear as the draft gets closer, and this year we have a scarcity of good quarterbacks, and Cleveland, and the Giants look like they really need them. So people aren't into Shador Sanders. I think there's two things. I think number one, there's enough video out there like you have. had with, you had this with Caleb Williams, where there's some stuff where old school general managers are not going to like it. You know, you've got a little bit of immaturity. There's the watch pose against Arizona State and a couple teams. Old school guys won't like that. And there's

not enough wow like Caleb Williams had. There's not enough wow to go, okay, forget about it. You know, he's young, NIL money, little into himself, whatever. So I think there's not enough wow, and there's a little bit of the Caleb immaturity stuff that old school GMs don't like. But I will say this, I go back to something that I think is really important. Colorado had very weak talent, and even though Shadour is one in seven

against ranked teams while at Colorado, he was wildly productive. 19 touchdowns, four picks, 300 yards a game, completed 70%. So he was swimming in mediocre teammates, and yet he was creating offense on his own, running and moving. Everybody tells me I can't move. He's not athletic. Well, I watched. He moved. I mean, he at least moved as well as like Bo Nix, who I think moves better than people give him credit for.

So no support in college didn't win games necessarily. Eli Manning wasn't dominating in college football. Patrick Mahomes wasn't winning games in college football. Josh Allen wasn't winning games in college football, but they were creating offense out of thin air with very average teammates. That is. impresses me. I'm not saying he's Allen or Malhomes. I'm saying I don't look at wins and losses. That's not what I look at. John Elway didn't win a lot of games in college. Okay. You know, Trevor Lawrence won almost all his games. So did Tua. So my track record on quarterbacks, I think I'm pretty good at the quarterback thing. Here's quarterbacks who people liked much more than me. Zach Wilson. You know, I didn't like Zach Wilson, Daniel Jones,

Mitch Trabesky, Tim Tebow, Tua, Johnny Manzell. I was like, I'm not high on these guys. I don't see great first-round talent. I did like guys where there were a lot of skeptics. I like Justin Herbert. I like Bow-Nicks. And I think I've been proven right to some degree on Sam Darnal. You know, you all think I hated Baker.

No, I said Baker is a franchise quarterback. I wouldn't draft him at number one. And I think I've been proven right. He's probably not a number one little immature at the time. He's grown up. He's now good. So I would draft Shadour Sanders if I needed him. I think you have to reach most of the time on quarterbacks.

I also think where you land, if you're kind of a B-plus prospect, which Shadoor is, has a lot to do with it. And Brian Daibald's an offensive coach, and Kevin Stafansky's a good offensive coach. I think he would do well with both of those. Here's what Todd McShay said yesterday about it. I like Shadoor Sanders a lot. Doesn't have a huge arm, does not have mobility. I think that's the biggest mistake in the evaluation, at least early in the process. His instincts in terms of the pocket and kind of extending and drifting

and always looking for the home run and not taking the short change, those sorts of things he'll manage through. And if people don't like him, what they say is he has some of the bad habits that Caleb Williams had to cause him problems as a rookie. But he doesn't have the arm and he is a fraction of the athleticism. But the people who love him love the fact that he's the best pure passer in terms of touch, timing, layering the football, and he's the fastest processor in this class.

Yeah, those matter a lot. Upstairs, processes fast, and he's accurate. Isn't that the Brock Purdy story? Isn't it? Well, Colin, he went, that's the story. It's the guys that struggle processing quickly and are kind of so, so accurate. It's why I'm not a big fan of Jackson Dart.

I think he's accurate. If you're not super accurate with Lane Kiffin as your coach in college, I do not trust you in the NFL. So, Shadour Sanders, his dad was a DB. Okay, he didn't have all Americans outside of Travis Hunter. He was really productive, like Josh Allen or Patrick Malmes with average teammates. I like him. I'd draft him.

Okay, so it was Shohay Otani Bottlehead night. People got in line like, you know, 8 in the morning and sat there all night. And of course, he delivered eventually. So one of my favorite trends by stars in sports is I know money matters. I'm not naive. They want to play for winners. Shohay wanted to play for a winner. You know, Mike Trout is an all-time talent, but he currently leads all active major league baseball players.

Mike Trout does in home runs in losses. He's invisible in Anaheim. I think he should have gone years ago back to the East Coast. Shohei deserved the Dodgers. Big brand, iconic, well-funded, they can put great batters around him. LeBron deserve the Miami Heat. Stafford deserve Sean McVeigh. Sequin Barclay had earned the right to play with a great bad guy.

O line in the Philadelphia Eagles. So the Dodgers lineup, this is really interesting, folks. They are so good once they get to your bullpen. Dodgers don't necessarily lead all the time. You can keep the Dodgers' bats at bay with strong starting pitching. Garrett Cole did this a couple of times in the World Series. But they will eat your bullpen alive, especially if you get to your second reliever. So last year they led baseball in comeback wins.

Last year, nobody in baseball scored more runs. inning or after. So, you know, yesterday is typical. Dodgers fall behind and they just start chipping away and chipping away and then they tie it in the eighth and then they win it in the ninth with Shohei. And here is the walkoff by the legend. Harris is back. Makes you say how much fun is this? You just feel that he's going to do something special and I just like the way he's not pressing. He's in the strike zone and when he does that, you know, There's just not, there's no one better.

Yeah, great players, in my opinion, deserve the right for great moments. You see these iconic photos of De Wade and LeBron or Luca and LeBron on the dunks is that that's what they deserve. And, well, Colin, you're for big brands. Cooper flag could play anywhere. But at Duke, you can't triple team him.

There's other players. And like Shohei Otani with the Angels, if he would have hit a home run for the Angels last night, it probably comes in a 7 to 4 loss, right? And so, like, to me, part of going to Ohio State for football is that if you're a running back, you know you'll have NFL offensive linemen, a highly compensated coaching staff. It doesn't mean you chose the easy route to play at Georgia or Michigan

or Notre Dame or Ohio State or Texas. It means you don't have to carry. the entire franchise. The late Kobe Bryant, you know, people, he didn't mind being the man. He threatened to go to Chicago. He didn't want to be the only man. He's like, you got to give me somebody else. And so I get when five-star recruits in high school go to like big brands, it's not just the money. It's I'm playing with other great players. And in baseball, what you don't want is a Joey Votto in Cincinnati where Votto gets the bag, but who's hitting in front of him. Who's hitting after him? Can you afford pitchers or is Votto just

homering and driving in four runs and another eight to five loss? Like great players want to play with great managers and the Dodgers are so well funded like, you know, he could have homered last night, but who would hit in front of him or behind him? And if you were paying O'Tonnie what the Dodgers did and the Angels wouldn't have deferred payments, you'd have to have, you'd have no bullpen. It would be in a loss and we wouldn't talk about it. So another great moment for him And another good night in sports Tonight Warriors Lakers

Yep, it means a lot It's a regular season game There's about a half dozen to a dozen All season that you're like Oh, this is about seeding Late in the year Sometimes those Saturday night games You know, the Celtics will be hosting the cabs

Or the Celtics are playing in Golden State Against the Warriors get those Saturday night ABC games You're like, oh, it's a big NBA game This is a really big one. This is for seating Nuggets lost last night Which helps the Lakers, they're now third in the West. That's right. They win this. They put some separation between themselves and the Warriors. It's a big Laker game tonight. And Lakers have OKC coming up with two games and OKC's

going for 70 wins. It's getting heated in the West, Colin. And I like the Lakers chances tonight. All right. Rocket mortgage is giving every home one address. Rocket.com. It's a single, seamless home ownership platform to help you find buy and sell finance, even refinance your home. Everything you need under one roof. Just go to rocket.com. Rocket.com for the new home for all things, home ownership. Rocket, own the dream. Be sure to catch live editions of the herd weekdays in noon Eastern, 9 a.m. Pacific on Fox Sports Radio, FS1 and the IHeart Radio app. Hey, it's us, the Jonas Brothers, and guess what? We have some big news.

What's the news, new? Huge news. We created our own podcast called, Hey, Jonas. We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to a podcast. We're the first people to do podcasts. Pretty, yeah, pretty wide range of podcasts throughout there. But this one's extra special. So how do we actually come up with the name, Hey Jonas, guys? I honestly don't remember. I think it was on a call about what we should call it.

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Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The French Open is one of the toughest tests in tennis. And I know firsthand because I competed there myself. I'm Renee Stubbs. And on the Renee Stubbs' tennis podcast, I'm breaking down everything happening at Roland Garris. Every match, every upset, and what it really takes to win on Clay.

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athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. You're now entering the No Bull Zone, Sponsored by Credible Great Rates, None of the Bull. So Carmelo Anthony was elected to the Hall of Fame yesterday.

He was obviously a first ballot Hall of Famer. But I was at the gym yesterday, and somebody came up and asked me, it was a Laker fan. He goes, why is Lucas so bad defensively? I mean, he's a great athlete. Why is he so bad defensively? And I said, well, it's like Carmelo Anthony. I have a belief that when you're so gifted early, and you can identify it and everybody else can identify it, you're so gifted early.

You know, 13, 14 years old in basketball, which is, let's be honest about the basketball culture in America, go get buckets. You get paid and you get scholarships for getting buckets. And Carmelo was so gifted offensively at 1314, Lucas, similarly, that it can stunt growth elsewhere. Both are bad defensive players. It's like the running quarterback. Why develop into a pocket quarterback in high school or college? You can just run and be successful. Sometimes running quarterbacks often never become great in the pocket or it takes them a while.

Jared Goff knew that was his only way to succeed. So Luca and Mello were so gifted. You know, both were averaging 21 a game in the NBA as rookies. I mean, I mean, Carmelo won the dunk contest, high school McDonald's, Natty, 22, a game, unstoppable at college, 21 a game in the NBA. You don't really have to develop into a great defensive player. You're going to get paid, you're going to get attention, you're going to get a shoe off the offense. Now, D. Wade played great defense. Why? Because he wasn't as gifted offensively. He was a grinder, because he knew that was his way to attention, money, and scholarships.

D-Wade to the end was never a finesse, smooth, offensive player. Not a three-point shooting guy. He got his points on defense and toughness and playing bigger than his size. Now, you could say, well, what about LeBron James? LeBron James was not as gifted offensively as Luca or Carmelo Anthony at 16 years old. He was a better athlete. But LeBron James could not shoot a three-pointer for years. He was just a freight train.

He was a locomotive. You couldn't stop him physically. He scored at the rim. He scored mid-range. but he wasn't as smooth as Luke at 1415 offensively. He couldn't shoot like Carmelo Anthony at 16 or 17 years old. And so I think a lot of times you see this, and that was always my thing with Carmelo. It's the burden of early greatness.

When people can spot it in the basketball culture, like, go get buckets is how you get shoes, fame, and attention. Tony Allen and Ben Wallace are great defensive players. I didn't have shoe deals, not that I know of. So I think, you know, at 18, Lucas winning the Euro Cup MVP against older guys. And so you don't have to be as well-rounded once offensively you are identified, really in all sports. If you're identified, if you're known as a great hitter, people stick you in right field, first base, DH, right? You can hit your way to the bigs. There's been a lot of guys who have had great Major League baseball careers that are reliability defensively.

put him at first, de-h-em. And so that's always my take on Carmelo is he and Luca, that was always my comp, is that Luca is like a better version of Carmelo. I think he's a better passer, and I think he's even a more natural score. He's a better outside shooter.

Carmelo's an all-time offensive score, but never in the best shape. You know, didn't take a step back, but you couldn't stop him. It got him 26 a game. There's nothing you could do. Couldn't stop him in high school, couldn't stop him in college,

couldn't stop him in the NBA and his prime. J. Mack with the news. No, no, no, no, no. Turn on the news. This is the herd line news. All right, we got that big Lakers Warriors matchup tonight. Big one. Crypto, we have not seen Luca Donchich face Jimmy Butler

since Luca went to the Lakers and Butler went to the Warriors. Steve Kerr, very excited talking about the impact Jimmy Butler's had on the Warriors. Jimmy saved our season. the trade saved our season. Everybody knows that. Playoff Jimmy, you know. It's a real thing. I mean, he's a big-time, big game performer at both ends.

Yes, he is. Who do you like tonight, by the way? Lakers. Warriors are 18 and 2 when Curry and Butler both play. At 12 and 0 when they go with a small lineup where Kaminga comes off the bench. So how do you figure they defend? So Butler against Luca or LeBron? I would put Butler on Luca.

And then that means Draymond on LeBron? Yeah. Now I will say... Jackson Hayes is going to eat on the Alley Oops tonight. You know, Luca just drive and toss it up. You'll get his 10 points. Warriors, I don't think, have as many playmakers as the Lakers. Austin Reeves is playing great.

Oh, yeah. But Warriors have a better bench. I don't know how that plays in the regular season. It could play tonight. No, this is a game where Curry will probably log 40 minutes. This is like, this is a huge game. I'm trying to think of a bigger regular season NBA game than tonight. I think this is the biggest regular season game.

I mean, think about it. If the Lakers can solidify the three, Colin, the two seat is Houston. So the Lakers would open against the six and then play Houston second round. They're going to the conference finals if that happens. And that means SGA plays Yokic in the second round on the other half of the bracket. Lakers need this one bad. This is an empty-the-tank game. Austin Reeves.

Who's guarding Austin Reeves? Don't scoff at Austin Reeves. Moses Moody. Stop. What's wrong? Moses Moody can defend. Hey, hey. He's a good defender.

Staff here's like thumbs up. Good call. You want to go head to head on this one? You take your Warriors? I, I think the Lakers. I'll take the Warriors. You've got to give me, what's the line? Lakers, two and a half?

Lakers minus two and a half? Yeah, I don't love that. Okay, if you give me two and a half, I'll take the Warriors. Deal. Okay. I don't feel great about it. And you're going to discipline. appear to parts unknown with the Lakers win.

Next story is the Baltimore Ravens owner, Steve Beshati, spoke with the media at the NFL meetings this week. He was asked about his vision for the Ravens for the next 30 years. Here's what Pashadhi said. Impatience is good for you. I don't like waiting 12 years. I want to win now. I know what we can do. I know that we work to put ourselves in.

position to win. And we all get credit for that. And that's all you can do. And I hate it that every year you just have to start back over again. But you know what? This is not for the meek. Yeah. I mean, it would be a shame if they are this good. They have been, is there an argument they have been the best regular season team in the NFL for three straight years. I mean, they have blown, I'll say this, they have blown out more top 10 teams in the league than anybody else the last three years. In the regular season. I mean, they blew out Detroit. Remember a couple years ago when they just, they blew out Miami and Detroit and San Francisco, they blow out in the regular season, very good playoffs teams. Why don't they do that in the playoffs?

Well, they're just, it's just they outthink the room sometimes. I mean, don't blame Lamar. Oh, it's funny. A couple of drops by his. Reliable weapons. So we have a chart. I don't know where they came up with this column. Where did the chart come from? Seasons with multiple playoff wins for quarterbacks who have multiple MVP. Now, this is crazy.

I didn't know this. Lamar Jackson's never had a postseason where he won two games, ever. It's win, loss, or losing the first time. Listen, I have no argument here. You win the argument. This is obscure, but it's like, why can't you just back-to-back playoff with? He's also the youngest quarterback on that. list. He is a very young kid.

Yeah, Patrick Mahomes is a young kid. Well, Patrick Holmes is older than him. I think what is Lamar Jackson? 26 years old. He's like one of the, it's incredible how young he is. He is, yeah. It is. It's funny where this chart came from.

I did not ask him to build it. I don't know, you can find out during the next commercial break. But, uh, it is a. So he's 28. So he's just entering his prime. He's got two MVP's already. He's been in his prime. You would say you enter your prime in the NFL at like 20?

Is it? Well, because you go to college longer. Probably 25 is your athletic prime to 33. I mean, you can't just blame Lamar, right? You can't just blame Harbaugh. Like you said, Mark Andrews had a brutal drop, or who knows how that game ends. Yeah. That's a rough one.

Final story, Colin. Let's go back to the Cleveland frowns. I'm sorry, Browns. Owner Jimmy Haslam, he made some interesting comments the last couple of days. First, he admitted the Deshawn Watson deal was a mistake, and now he's sending a message to the highest paid player on his team. Here's what he said about Miles Garrett. We've challenged Miles because we want to see his practice habits, his actions,

and become a real leader of the team. And he has said he'd do that and we're hopeful he will be. So you pay him all the money and then you challenge him to be a real leader? What are we doing? Well, first of all, what I don't like about that is you are insinuating, which nobody outside the building knew that he's not. not currently a leader. Also true.

If my bosses came out and said, you know, we just, we gave calling a new contract, we're hoping now that he becomes more of a leader. Well, so you're saying I didn't have any leadership qualities? Like, why would you say that publicly? It's not like Miles Garrett is combative or disruptive. Some guys are not big talkers. Aaron Donald was not a big talker. Like some, I mean, would Jeter a big talker?

Like, I know what I get with Miles Garrett. A transformational rush in. Everything else, I'll let Lawrence Taylor, was he a great leader? I don't know. I mean, I do think Max Crosby does feel a little bit like the heartbeat of his defense. Your boy, yeah. Well, he's great. Yeah.

I think, you know, there are certain defensive guys. Kalee Mack has a reputation with the Chargers. He is good in the room. Like, he is a guy that, like, they guys rally around him. Derwin James has that. German and Khalil Mack for the Chargers. Those guys, they are very respected and willing to share some thoughts in the locker room. Doesn't it feel like another jab at Deshawn Watson, calling it a mistake and now basically saying your quarterback's not a leader?

I mean, Watts, it has to be over, which leads me back to Shador. I'm sorry to keep coming back to it. But how are they not taking him? Who's their guy? Jackson Dart, Kurt Cousins? Kirk freaking cousins, Colin? I don't get it. Maybe they're going to get Travis Hunter at two and then trade back into the first at the back of the first round against the door.

I don't know, but they need a quarterback. How many teams where the defensive end or pass rusher is the leader of the team? Well, Raiders. That's it. And they're not great. So, yeah, you'd like your quarterback to be. Paying him the franchise money. J-Mack with the news.

Well, that's the news. And thanks for stopping by. The Hurd-Lie News. So we're just giving you on a daily basis. I like to just give you an update on the last, quote, great quarterback in the NFL still on the market. So there's a report now. The Steelers have gotten some sort of fairly loose assurance from Aaron Rogers.

Fairly loose actually describes Aaron over the last several years. What I'm really interested in is the Steelers over under on wins next year is eight and a half. Where does it go when he's officially a stealer? My guess is nine and a half, or it's possible the people in Vegas have already baked it in. So eight and a half, Mason Rudolph, nine and a half, Aaron Rogers. I mean, that kind of tells you where he's at. So, you know, it's interesting is Brett Farve had a very good second act in Minnesota. Brady had a very good second act in Tampa.

Peyton Manning had one in Denver. Matt Stafford's had one with the Rams. Joe Montana was a pro bowler with the Kansas City Chiefs. Aaron's career, kind of a slow regression in Green Bay, and it appears to be a very messy end. As the kids say, he messed around and found out. And I will say this, there are two Hollywood endings for older actors. You get a couple of great roles, you're right off into the sunset as an icon.

Or a box office bomb and, It's kind of sad. Kind of a sad trombone of an ending. You know, I will say this. It's not really a criticism. It's a reality. This is not a criticism. I think there is a cost to being a free spirit in a very corporate world.

I mean, if you go look at Hollywood and music, you know, music's the arts, Hollywood's the arts. Who's aged well? Jagger, Bono, Hanks, Denzel, Cruz, and Morgan Freeman, Merrill Streep, they're artists but they're like and they may be you know again all artists

are kind of independent personalities but they'll play the game they understand the corporate reality of the world and there is a cost associated with being really independent in a corporate world music a lot of

burnouts Hollywood a lot of ugly endings and you look at all these great quarterbacks they all had really good second acts. Montana and Peyton and Brady, even Farr. They had really, really good second acts. And Aaron's is, you know, it does.

I mean, I just think Pittsburgh's going to be a mess. I don't, you know, and I'll just put it out there. I have defended Aaron. I thought his last 10 games last year. Some of it was stat padding, but I thought he was pretty good. He didn't move very much anymore. But, you know, I think Pittsburgh looks, it feels like. like hard knocks is coming around the corner between D.K. Metcalf, lost their left tackle,

Naji Harris came out and said a couple of weeks ago they have no identity. The Steelers don't have an offensive identity. But apparently he's given loose assurances that he'll be a stealer. And again, they're eight and a half win total. Let me ask you this, J. Mack. Steelers are eight and a half. You know, they do halves on over and unders, obviously. You bet the over the under. Today, would you go over under eight and a half Steelers with Mason Rudolph today? Under.

So would I. Aaron Rogers, let's say it stays at eight and a half. They already baked it in. Aaron Rogers, eight and a half. I'd want to see the schedule, but I would lean under. So would I. I mean, what if they open with Ravens, Bengals? If it moved at nine and a half, it's one of the better underbass.

No, no, it would probably go the other way, right? It's not going to nine and a half. that much respect for Mike Tomlin, then he can move mountains and get a team over 500 again? I mean, I will say this. Every year, like last year, you did a good job on this. Every year you can kind of see train wrecks coming. And Chicago Bears were a great example last year.

You had a defensive coach on the hot seat. You had Caleb Williams coming in. The division was really good. And the front office, we didn't really trust. The Bears, I think I picked him for third or fourth. you could see the mess coming. Did they start 2-0 or something? They started good three-one.

Well, Levis gave them a win. So, but you can see, generally in the NFL, you can see the mess coming. Right? Like, and that was it. If I said to you, because Chicago's not going to be a mess next year, they may not be great, but they- The schedule is absolutely brutal for Chicago. We'll see the order, but it looks very treacherous. There's not a lot of great, there's not a lot of great defense.

on their schedule. There's some good teams. I've backed off bears in the playoffs. So, if I said to you, oh man, that thing got ugly, I feel like Pittsburgh's it. Pittsburgh or Dallas, right? Yeah, D.K. Metcalf, Pickens, older Aaron Rogers, shaking at left tackle, no nausea Harris, defensive culture.

I mean, all of a sudden, you get a T.J. Watt injury. He's out for four weeks. they start bleeding a little bit on defense and it's like he's got a throw you've got two receivers that want it metcalf's now one of the highest paid guys in the league he's going to demand the ball pickin's not making anything because he's a kid on a first average contract so he's going to have a chip on his shoulder like pittsburgh is a better version of the mess that was the bears last year potentially yeah and there's the then there's the reports about the prickly OC and Aaron rogers personality and that could be kind of an oil and water deal where it just doesn't go well so There's a lot of, yeah, I think that's, that might be a good bet right now if you're headed to Vegas this weekend.

Just take the under blindly, regardless of what Rogers does. So it's eight and a half right now on the Steelers. That's steep. It's my guess, if Aaron moves it up to nine and a half, it is one of the better underbets. Yeah, I would ride with the under. And remember, you say, well, I mean, there was drama with the Steelers with Lavian Bell. Big Ben was in his prime. Aaron is not in his prime.

Big Ben was still at that point able to move. I mean, Antonio Brown and Lavin-Belt, there was drama, but Big Ben was playing at such a high level that you can overcome some of that. That Aaron could overcome some of that six years ago. He's not going to overcome that stuff now. By the way, the Cowboys are weird. So they did something again yesterday, and somebody has to explain it to me. I don't get it.

Diana Rusini, top of the hour, on the very latest stuff, musings around the NFL. Live in L.A., it's The Hurt. Be sure to catch live editions of the Horde, weekdays in noon Eastern, 9 a.m. Pacific. Hey, Steve Kavino. And I'm Rich Davis. And together we're Kavino and Rich on Fox Sports Radio. You can catch us weekdays from 5 to 7 p.m. Eastern, 2 to 4 Pacific on Fox Sports Radio, and of course, the IHeart Radio app.

Why should you listen to Kavino and Rich? We talk about everything, life, sports, relationships, what's going on in the world? We have a lot of fun talking about the stories behind the stories in the world of sports and pop culture. Stories that, well, other shows don't seem to have the time to discuss. And the fact that we've been friends for the last 20 years and still work together, I mean, that says something, right? So check us out. We like to get you involved too.

Take your phone calls, chop it up as they say. I'd say the most interactive show on Fox Sports Radio. Maybe the most interactive show on Planet Earth. Be sure to check out Kavino and Rich live on Fox Sports Radio and the IHeart Radio app from 5 to 7 p.m. Eastern, 2 to 4 Pacific. And if you miss any of the live show, just search Covino and Rich wherever you get your podcast and of course on social media. That's Covino and Rich. Hey, it's us, the Jonas Brothers, and guess what? We have some big news.

What's the news, dude? Huge news. We created our own podcast called, Hey Jonas. We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to a... We're the first people to do podcasts. Pretty, yeah, pretty wide range of podcasts throughout there.

But this one's extra special. So how do we actually come up with a name Hey Jonas, guys? I honestly don't remember I think it was on a call about what we should call it And we were thinking I'm originally calling it One of the early names of our band Before Jonas Brothers This is how you guys remember it going down

Yes I have a very different memory of this We were talking about a thing A bit for the podcast For people could call in and say hey Jonas And then I wrote down on my little notepad Hey Jonas and offered it up as a potential title For the podcast But thanks for remembering that

guys listen to hey jonas on the iheart radio app apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcast just listen we don't care where you hear it another podcast from some s nl late night comedy guy not quite on humor me with robert smigle and friends me and hilarious guests from bob odenkirk to david letter help make you funnier this week my guest s nl's mikey day and head writer streeter sidel help an acapella band with their between songs banter where does your group perform we do some retirement homes those People are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The French Open is one of the toughest tests in tennis. And I know firsthand because I competed there myself.

I'm Renee Stubbs, and on the Renee Stubbs Tennis podcast, I'm breaking down everything happening at Roland Garris. Every match, every upset, and what it really takes to win on clay. Jenchian win. I mean, she went down in three to Robocchio. but I'm delighted. She's an outsider to win the French for me. And she likes Clay. Listen, Lena Rubakina is arguably the best player in the world right now.

And I actually can win on any surface. Because if she's serving, well, good luck. Consider this your court side seat to the French Open. Listen to the Renee Stubbs tennis podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHeart Women's Sports. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only. only legal, but encouraged.

It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast, Superhuman, documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts,

or wherever you get your podcasts. As he leads the defending champion Dodgers, in a must-watch early-season showdown against Bryce Harper and the Phillies Saturday at 4 Eastern on FS1. That's had Philadelphia. That's going to be great. So this is weird to me. We all know somebody said something this morning during our kind of staff prep meeting that I thought was interesting. That Jerry Jones was threatened by Bill Parcells and Jimmy Johnson.

You know, they were getting, the star coach was getting attention. and they've only had really one star first round quarterback since Jerry's been there. And that's Troy Aikman, obviously. And Troy Aitman's closer to Jimmy Johnson than Jerry Jones, from what I can tell. But Diana Rusini broke this story. Now, I like Joe Milton, the third. I don't think he's a franchise quarterback, but I think he has some real talent. The Patriots are trading him.

He had a good preseason last year. He was a seventh round pick. he's going to Dallas now for a fifth rounder. So he's gone from a seventh rounder to a fifth rounder in a weak draft. And I like the kid. And Dax 32 second surgery. He brings athleticism to the locker room, I guess. But they gave up a fourth rounder for Trey Lance,

which I did not think at the time was a brilliant move because Kyle Shanahan makes everybody work a quarterback. And Kyle Shanahan knew it would be embarrassing to bail. on Trey Lance, and they did. And then Jerry gave up a fourth rounder. And then Jerry gave up a fifth rounder for Joel Milton, who's a clear backup, and he gave up a fifth rounder for Mingo, the wide receiver from Carolina. It's like, time out.

Time out. You understand the Rams, Pooka Nakua, their star receiver, and Kairn and Williams, their star running back were both fifth rounders. Fifth rounders can be star. George Kittle in this league is a fifth rounder. The Niners, Joanne Jennings, wide receiver. I think he's a sixth rounder. Brock Purdy, seventh rounder.

There's a lot of talent in this league. You can't just give out fourth and fifth round picks for receivers who are not only backups. They're borderline non-NFL players. I mean, I'm not even sure. Trey Lance, not really an NFL player. Mingo. I'm not sure he is. So the Cowboys, it's weird since 1990.

So this is a pretty big sample size. It's 35 years. The Cowboys have only drafted seven quarter. quarterbacks, none in the first, one in the second. This is the biggest brand in the NFL for most of my adult life. They just don't draft quarterbacks. Now, Tony Romo was successful and undrafted, so they did hit an undrafted home run. They deserve credit for that.

But it's, I mean, I didn't like the Mingo draft pick giveaway, the Lance draft pick giveaway, and now a fifth rounder for a guy that's not going to play, hopefully. And this is not the Philadelphia Eagles or the Lions where you got kind of a stacked roster. Like the Cowboys need to hit on fourth, fifth, sixth, and seventh round picks. They've got a hit on some of these because we got a story this week that the Cowboys are going to pay Mike a $200 million. Or that's kind of the number. So it's just, I will be honest, it's they're strange. The Cowboys are strange.

here's something else I saw so they just had the NFL meetings Ben Johnson is the new coach of the Bears and he was doing some talking and one of the things he brought up it's a very confusing analytic so I'm going to try to simplify this as much as I can

it's called EPA expected points added so Ben Johnson the Bears coach was talking about he thinks it's the number one quarterback stat in the league now it used to be turnovers like if you turn the ball over you lost the game. And he said, that's not really, that's not really true anymore. He said, this is a very complicated analytic. And the way I would describe the EPA analytic is, as a

quarterback, do you put your team in a position to win? In this analytic, quarterback sacks are a killer. Get rid of the ball. And just not turning it over, that's not it. If you're throwing 42 times a game, you can have an interception as long as you don't throw it in the red zone. So here's Ben Johnson talking about the improvement of Caleb Williams. You go back to the basics, and so it's the fundamentals of the quarterback position. What's our footwork going to look like under center from the shotgun? What are we calling the formations? We've got to get on the same page because it'll be a little bit different for him

than what he experienced last year. And if we can mesh together and start speaking the same language, that's when things will really start to take off. So the Bears, interestingly, the over or under on the Bears is eight and a half wins, and that's what it was last year. So I don't know what they're going to be, but here's why the Ben Johnson hire is really important. If Caleb Williams doesn't look like a franchise quarterback by early October, then he's not going to be.

They have a really nice offensive line now. They've got really good weapons. They may pick up a running back in the first round. So they have a competent offensive coach who is cerebral. Like I don't love Justin Fields, but he went from Bears, Steelers to Jets. Defensive coach, defensive coach. I don't love Justin Fields, but he never found his guru. You'll know within four to five games if Caleb Williams is the guy.

It doesn't take long. I mean, remember, Sean McVey went to the Rams. Gough looked like a bust. and through the first four weeks, Goff had a 112 passer rating. Jaden Daniels, it wasn't even a head coach, had a really good coordinator, and not a very good O-line,

and not much of a run game, and one receiver, and not great tight-end production, and Jaden Daniels, in his first four weeks, had a 107 passer rating. Sam Darnold finally got an offensive coach in Kevin O'Connell, first four games in Minutes,

Minnesota, 119 passer rating. So by October 1st, I'll know, you'll know, Ben Johnson will know, everybody in the Bears will know if Caleb's going to be the guy or not. It does not take a long time. If you get a very erudite, smart, offensive guy, we knew with C.J. Stroud and Bobby Sloak, we knew in the first month, Burrow in the first month, golf with McBay in the first month. Darnold with Kevin O'Connell first month. Jaden

Daniels with Cliff Kingsbury. We knew in the first month. I mean, I was never a huge Cam Newton fan, but we kind of knew five games in. Yeah, that doesn't look like everybody else. So this, you know, this idea that it's like, let's look over the course of a season. And for

me, it's not a win-loss thing. Again, the Packers have better players and a better culture, and the Lions have way better players, and a dominant offensive line to control the games. And Minnesota is now got like between Brian Flores

and Kevin O'Connell, that's one of the best staffs in football. So if the Bears finished fourth and won nine games, it's like that just may be what it is. But you're going to be able to, when you listen to Ben Johnson talk about EPA and stuff like this, and what that EPA basically

is, over the course of a game, if you look at individual plays, are you getting rid of the really negative plays? sacks are a killer. Caleb Williams got sacked too much. So Ben Johnson, who clearly now is running the show, comes in Pro Bowl Center, Pro Bowl Guard,

starting left guard. Like, they made the O line the priority. And my guess is, and this is why I think it's important sometimes to just do something. Like sometimes in life, you're like, I don't know if I should do this. I don't know if I should. Just do it because it'll create clarity.

Like sometimes you're like, I'm not sure if I should take this job. I'm not sure if I'm really. ready for this job, take the job. Because if you're not ready for a tough job, it's better to know now so you can start building toward it. Go for it. Three words that generally solve puzzles. Go for it. Do things. And you'll find out if you're over your skis. So Ben Johnson, every time I've heard him talk, I'm like, this guy's really smart. It does not take long. I mean, you go back to what McVeigh took over. The Rams were a mess, and McVeigh got a left tackle, better coaching.

First month, you're like, yeah, Goff works. And I think Caleb Williams is significantly more firepower athletically than Jared Goff. So you've got a dimension, you'll have a third of a playbook you can't use with Goff. So, you know, but it is interesting. I mean, for the record, you know, you think I'm critical of Baker Mayfield. when Baker Mayfield got Liam Cohen the right offensive coordinator. First four games in Tampa, 101.5 passer rating. Or Dave Conallis, my bad.

So it's like it doesn't take long. You're speaking the same language. You'll know by October 1st. The Bears will know, you'll know, I know. We'll know if it works or not. It's not going to be a slow growth thing. You're going to need like 13 games. No, it's not.

Because there is such a gap in this league. and I always use Belichick and Brady as an example. I don't think people understand it. There is such a gap in this league between offensive coaches and how they understand quarterbacks and all lines and defensive coaches. If you go look at offensive line rankings, the bottom five to six teams the last several years are almost all defensive coaches. If you go look at the top seven to eight offensive lines the last half decade,

They're almost all offensive coaches. So it's not just going to be Caleb Williams. Ben Johnson's going to fix the O-Line, which wasn't it weird last year with Iber Fluse? We thought going into the year it was okay, to maybe slightly better than okay. It was a disaster. It got worse. Tomlin can't figure out the O-Lines. In Seattle, Pete Carroll, struggled what unit?

The offensive lines. So it's taken a while for Sean McDermott outside of left tackle to get the O-Lines right in Buffalo. Dionne Dawkins has been great, but it's been a little musical chairs and they can't quite get it. They finally got the run game in the O-line right after years and years of struggling. So I'm with you on Ben Johnson. Genius mastermind, I like it. Colin, I looked up the opponents. Are you ready for the Bears' road games this season? I am. Let's go. Obviously, Detroit and Green Bay in the division will get. They'll split with those teams. And Minnesota, they'll win. We'll see. They also have to go to Baltimore. That's a loss.

To Cincinnati to face Joe Burrow. Yeah, probably a loss. To the Eagles, the defending Super Bowl champion. To your boy, Jaden Daniels and Washington. And, oh, by the way, to Kyle Shanahan and San Francisco. Colin, the other road game is against the Raiders. I don't know if they're going to win two road games this year. Okay, let's say they don't.

Let's say they lose all those games. And give me one win there. I'll give you the Raiders. And the Niners. And who? The Niners. I'll give you the Vikings instead. Fine.

Two road games. Okay. So if they win their home games, that's a 10-win team. Okay. So the home schedule is favorable. They do get Dallas at home. Win. It should be a win. The New York Giants. Win. Cleveland frowns. Pittsburgh Steelers. Win. New Orleans Saints. So that's favorable. And then the three in the division. So you're right.

With a lot of stacking home wins, maybe there's a chance they get to 500 or above. I don't think this is a playoff team. Close. Yeah. They're going to lose to Philly and Baltimore without question on the road. everything else is winnable. Niners lose home games all the time. And remember, it's overcast, W for the Bears. It's a little sprinkly. Give me a W. This guy.

Diana Rusini's around the corner. I still can't get over Otani. Hey guys, it's us. The Jonas Brothers. I'm Joe. I'm Kevin. And I'm Nick. And guess what? We created our own podcast called, Hey, Jonas. We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to it. We're the first people to do podcasts. We get to ask other people questions because we're sick and tired of being asked questions.

Well, sick and tired is a strong way to put it, but, you know, tired and sick. Tired and sick. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smigel and Friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter.

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