The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Hour 2 - Bill Belichick Future in Question, Greg Cosell Breaks Down NFL Game Tape

Episode Date: December 22, 2022

In this hour of The Herd, Colin wonders if it's the right time for Tennessee Titan head coach Mike Vrabel to trade workhorse running back Derrick Henry. Also, Greg Cosell of NFL Films drops in to share his weekly observations from the league's game tape. Finally, Colin ponders New England Patriot head coach Bill Belichick's future under franchise owner Robert Kraft.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Wherever you may be, and however you may be listening, IHeart Radio, Fox Sports Radio, and FS1. Great to be here. Sunny Dykes TCU coach. He plays Harbaugh in a week. He's going to be joining us. He, by the way, coached Jared Gough in College. So he's turned around TCU. We got four big games.

TCU, I don't know if they match up with Michigan, but they can score. Have an NFL quarterback. Max Duggan's going to go pro. Greg CoSell is going to be joining us in five minutes. So I'm going to throw something at you, J. Mack. Fire away. So my opinion is Mike Vrable is one of the smartest guys in the National Football League.

And I'm counting coaches, coordinators, general managers, presidents. Mike Vrable, to me, is one of the smartest ex-players that the sport has. I think Mike's already smart. The GM of Tennessee got thrown out of the building. Mike's going to run the building. So Mike Vrable's smart. He had Tom Brady. He knows the value of a quarterback.

He's built one of the best defenses. He's a tough guy. really smart. Tanna Hill now is in year 11. He's 34 years old. He's now going to miss the rest of the season. Malik Willis may be good. Not close to beating a Lamar Jackson, a Herbert, a Mahalms, an Alan, a Burrell.

Not close. Not close. Totally raw. Like he's a year of backing up again. I'll just throw this at you. This team is running back centric. Think Herschel Walker trade. They have to pay Derek Henry a ton next year.

Keep your eye on the Aaron Rogers thing. They have three people they could move. The Titans could. Taylor Luan, the tackle. They're going to owe him a fortune. He's now hurt a lot. But he is a left tackle. He's got value.

Robert Woods, a number two receiver. They can kind of release him, save money. I think it's time to consider privately trading Derek Henry. Okay. he's got 1,700 carries in his career, 125 catches. Three of the last four years, he's led the NFL and carries. Folks, first of all, run-centric teams don't win Super Bowls. Ask Nick Chub and the Browns.

How many playoff wins for Zeke? How many playoff wins for the Titans? They don't win. You've got to have a guy. Tanna Hill's now in his 11th year. He's average, slightly above average, and now he's getting hurt more often. Malik Willis isn't ready. Vrable's one of the smartest guys in the world.

Everybody freaks out, but Derek Henry got to sell at the high point. He came into the league, didn't play a ton early. Over the last four or five years, he's like a pitcher throwing 300 innings. You've got to get out of the deal before the deal gets into you. And I just look around at run-centric teams. They don't win Super Bowls. Hell, they struggle to win playoff games. Nick Chubb and Cleveland.

Cleveland's got a great O line, great running back, offensive coach. Zeke, one playoff win. Who's the other one? Christian McCaffrey. How many playoff wins do he have? Okay. I don't hate this strategy, but I've got to ask, what's the next step?

Because you are no longer attractive to Aaron Rogers. You don't have Derek Henry and you have no receivers. No, no, no. So what you do is you get draft capital for that left tackle. Derek Henry's going to fetch something on the market. You're now going to have some cap space because your defense is excellent. Aaron's played with a great defense one year. He won a Super Bowl.

So this is a great defense. You're getting rid of a running back and a left tackle and a receiver. Okay. Then you'll have money to spend on the market. You already have a young receiver you like a lot at Arkansas. Berks is very good. Very good. Yes.

You could keep Woods if you wanted and renegotiate the deal so you'd have a solid two. You draft another receiver. You go on the market. They've done a good job of just plugging in tight ends, random guys you've never heard of and they deliver. I just, I think it's one of the... I'm a little leery of dumping the left tackle, Taylor LeWan. He's heard a lot. You need an offensive line.

I know. He's hurt a lot. Let me counter this. Is there a strategy where the Titans say, you know what, that model that the 49ers had, build up a formidable defense, plug in a quarterback who can just get it done and have a good offensive line? Yeah. But the difference is Shanahan's an offensive genius. Brable is just a really smart dude.

The second thing is they have made a – San Francisco takes six round running backs like Elijah Mitchell and gets the Super Bowls. I mean, they vote – Kyle Shanahan – I mean, Christian McCaffrey's a good. great piece. Why? Because he's a receiver. Yeah. And Shanahan loves that. What do you think the market's like for Derek Henry? A guy with a lot of miles on him? No, no, no. But he's I mean, for a team that needs a running back, you'd give a third round pick maybe.

I think I'd rather have Derek Henry than a third round pick. Well, but Derek Henry's expensive. So if you get Derek Henry, going to have to give up somebody else. He's not cheap. Running backs, he's been in this league now a lot of years and a lot of innings pitched. I mean, to me, Mike Frable's a smart guy. He's looking around at Burrell, Mahomes. Alan. Now Trevor Lawrence in his own division. I got to go toe to toe with 11 year Ryan

Tannehill or Malique Willis out of liberty. That being said, they were the number one seed last year in the AMC. I know they lost. And they are still ahead of Jacksonville in the division this year. I mean, I think there's, we could probably meet a middle ground, you know, J&C consulting to deliver something for Tennessee to get them out of it. They're not a fun watch, Colin. Like nobody wants to see that team in the playoffs. Well, Rable doesn't care about that, but he's too smart not to see the reality is now he has one of those stars. quarterbacks in his own division. It was one thing when they were all out of division.

Now he's got to face Trevor twice a year. I'm just, and by the way, here comes Bryce Young to Houston. Maybe Malik Willis had something we haven't seen yet. He's got to look very limited and green in a couple of appearances. All right. Greg Co. Sells probably listening to us, Jabber shaking his head, 43 years NFL films. Well, let's talk about quarterbacks in the league. So here's what continues to bother me.

about Buffalo. I thought they were out-schemed, outside of center. I don't love their offensive line. They bail on the run and continue to be ridiculously Josh Allen dependent, which, by the way, I get. He's amazing. On film, I thought it was one of the best losses of the year. I thought Miami had a good plan.

They were physical. They ran the ball. What did the tape say about Buffalo and Miami? Well, I thought that Miami's offense played well. I thought that, you know, when you run the ball effectively, there's not a lot of mystery as to why you run the ball effectively. They moved the interior tackles of the Bill's defense, which normally doesn't happen. Ed Oliver's had an outstanding year. He did not have a very good game.

That allowed them to work to the second level where they were able to block Milano and Edmonds. So they ran the ball well. And I thought Tua threw the ball well, he looked like Tua, you know, those quick rhythm throws. Yeah. Although I thought there were a couple of plays in critical situations where the bills had a really good feel for the concepts and they took away throws. But I agree with you about Josh Allen. We've talked about this. This is not a great offensive team.

They do not run the ball particularly well or often. Their O line, you're correct, is probably average. at best. They've not really had a second receiver, Colin, step up after Diggs. So they're kind of struggling there. So it's a very Josh Allen-centric team. And I've been doing this a long time, as have you, when teams that have flaws end up getting beat in an important playoff games, I'm not surprised by that, because those flaws can crop up any time. Now, last year, Josh Allen had two amazing playoff games. Obviously, they lost to the chief. You almost have to have him play at that level anytime you get to the playoffs.

If he's not quite at that level, you wonder if their flaws are going to just bring them down. You know, it's interesting. Let's move to Kansas City. I want to talk about this. Yeah. So we kind of feel like Buffalo, Kansas City, right or wrong. They were in that Ollie Frazier bout last year, and I have a feeling they'll meet again. And it's really remarkable.

I said this the other day. Like Mahomes completed like 20 straight throws against Houston, and in high school, that's absurd. I mean, from his temperament to his armed talent, to his mobility, to his playmaking, he's about as good as anybody I've ever seen play this. But the offense now, because Tyreeks gone, is different. Totally.

What is the Chief's offense for somebody that lives and watches film? What's different about this Chief's offense? Dig deep and tell me what you see. Okay, here's the difference. It's a major difference because what they have done over the course of this season, they have evolved into being a multiple tight end offense team. They now play with two tight ends, three tight ends, as much, if not more than any team in this league. Now, they did not do that previously. They were much more of an 11 personnel offense with three wide receivers.

They don't play like that now. They play with 40% multiple tight ends, maybe more depending on the game. And the other player who are looking at right now, who has become a really critical piece of what they do is Jerich McKinnon. Over the last month, five weeks, he has really become important, particularly in the red zone. I mean, last week, Colin, McKinnon played 62% of the snaps, but Checo only 35%. McKinnon had 10 rushes, eight targets, eight receptions. So that fits because their past game is much more condensed. Last week, Mahomes was 36 for 41 with a long completion of 21 yards.

And he was efficient. So this offense has evolved in recognition of their talent. So it's a tribute to Andy Reid and the staff and to Mahomes, who was an incredibly smart quarterback, very aware, very instinctive, understands. He can play any way you want him to play, any way that's necessary. So now I want to bring up a team that may be better. than both Cincinnati. And I've said this multiple times this year is we tend to think, when we think of great defenses historically, we can name like Dick Butkus or, you know, Richard Dent for the Bears. But with Cincinnati, they don't really have a star, but every time I watch them, they make

changes at half and just shut teams down. They do this all the time. So is it schemer talent? because I, this Cincinnati defense, I don't know what the stats say, is the best second half defense I've seen in the league this year. Well, it's funny you say that because when I watched the tape this past week against Brady and the Bucks, my mind immediately went back to the AFC championship game against the Chiefs. You probably thought the same thing. I mean, it was evident they made some adjustments at halftime. They started playing with 7 dBs.

They started rushing 3 with 8 in coverage. They had multiple pressure schemes, better around, recognition. And you're right. There's not the one player you say, wow, that team, that one guy is really dominant. They've got good players, though, at all three levels of their defense. I know Hubbard's out now, and I guess he'll be out for a number of weeks, but they've got really good players at all three levels. And I think the rookie corner, they play Cam Taylor, Britt from Nebraska. He's a really good player, and he brings an attitude, a swag, or a competitiveness to this defense. And so, but you're right, Lou Anorama does not get enough credit.

They're de-coordinator because he does a really good job in game of understanding what he's seeing, what's hurting him, and then how to take it away. Before I get to Cowboys Eagles, I want to give a tip of the cap to Brian Daibble. And I said, the fact that Brian Daible is getting strong consideration for coach of the year is an indictment of what he's working. working with. So it's easy for me to say that outside of left tackle. I don't see a lot of talent, Barclay in the left tackle. You tell me, because I think I would, I think dable's in a short list of coach of the year. Do the Giants have much offensive talent? No. And in fact, they have to play a certain way. They don't score a lot of points. Daniel Jones this year has the fewest 20 plus yard completions in the NFL, only about 20. Think about that. That is a very,

very small number. So they play close games. So when you play close games, your defense has to be a factor. This is a very aggressive defense. It's Wink Martindale. They blitz a lot. They play a lot of man. That's the way he plays. That's what he believes in. So what they have to do, Colin, is they've got to run the ball. And there have been games this year where they've gotten to the second half and they've had a lead and they've not been able to run the ball. And then they, they lose. This week, they were able to run the ball. They got the ball with six minutes remaining in the fourth quarter and a five point lead. And Barclay had three consecutive runs for 41 yards. Now, that hasn't happened very much this year. Barclay is a very up and down back. He's not really a sustainer. He's not really

a grinder. He's a big playback. But he's not really a guy that gets hard yards. And this week, He had some tough runs, but they need him to be that guy because they're not going to be ahead in games, 2710 in the fourth quarter. Yeah, as we thought, there's not much talent. All right, let's talk Eagles and Cowboys. I think Jalen Hertz has exploded as a talent. Many subscribe to the theory that it's mostly the people around him, the O lines, the D lines. So Gardner Minshu is, to me, has kind of a Baker-Mayfield skill set, can move a little, can throw a little, but there's some talent here that you could win games with him.

I wouldn't build around him. Can Gardner Minshu with his talent? Is there a massive gap between him and Hertz? Or can they be effective moving the ball at all against Dallas's defense with Minshu? Well, those are two separate questions. I think that there's a pretty significant talent gap there, but they can be effective moving the ball. This is a team with arguably the best offensive line in football.

Yes. They've got Brown and Smith on the outside. going to get Goddard back this week, who's a top five tight end in this league. They've got good running backs. So what they will be missing, and it's significant, is the run game that involves hurts. And when I say the run game that involves hurts, I don't mean where he's running. Don't forget he changes the way defenses have to play because of the run threat, whether he runs or not.

So when he's in the gun, which he is almost all the time, Colin, you have to think zone read, you have to think quarterback power, you have to think quarterback power, you have to think quarterback draw. You have to be aware of all these design quarterback runs that impact how you line up and how you play. You're not going to have to think about any of those things with Gardner Minchew. So can Gardner Minchew execute the offense in a more conventional way? Yes, I believe he can. But there is a meaningful drop off not only in talent, but in how defenses prepare and have to play. And I think that's something that should not be overlooked at all. Yeah. A little betting advice there for those of you who have, and it's very interesting.

I was saying this. We're in year seven with DAC. They have the second most pro bowlers, a pretty profound run game. They have a CD Lamb has established himself as a go-to number one. And in the three losses, Dax completed 60% of his throws, pass a rating in the 70 and like six touchdowns, five picks. I've never been in love with Dak. I like his intangibles more than his tangibles. But how is he playing football this year? I didn't think Jacksonville's loss was on him. How is he playing this year? You know, I like Dak overall. I mean, I think, Dak, when you watch him and study just him, he knows how to play quarterback.

He's a pocket quarterback. He goes through progressions. He understands the offense. He knows where to go with the football. I think this year he's had some bouts of inaccuracy where the ball placement hasn't been as precise as it needs to be. You know, it's funny you mentioned C.D. Lamb. I think C.D. Lamb is their number one. I'm not sure C.D. Lamb is one of those big time number ones, the way we talk about other number ones.

And I think since Gallup has come back, he's not been the same guy. They don't really have a number three. Yeah. You know, I think Schultz is a nice tight end, but not a special tight end. So I don't really think the Cowboys have a lot on the perimeter. So, you know, they obviously have two good backs, although Elliot is certainly not the back he was. The tape tells you that immediately. All you have to do is put the tape on.

He does not move like he used to. Pollard's definitely got juice. But this team, to me, is not as talented on offense when you watch tape as I think the narrative is, Colin. All right. Zach Wilson and the Jets against the Jags. So let's talk Jets. Zach threw for over 300 yards.

Have you seen since he was benched? Did you see a little growth? Little growth? Maybe a little. You know, it's funny. I finished watching that tape and I said to my, myself, this is where I think they would have hoped he would have been last year after four or five starts. You know, you see the snaps in which he has light, athletic feet and the live loose arm

with the easy ability to throw the football. That's evident. We knew that even before he came out. You know, the problem that he has, and it's going to need to be cleaned up or it's going to be a struggle every week, is he has significant ball placement issues, even on some completions. I mean, he just does not place the ball where it needs to be. And he is consistently, Colin, late on throws. He's a beat late. And he has to become quicker mentally. He has to become more precise. I think there's not the needed sink between his lower body and upper body when he delivers the football. So there's still a lot of work to do. That's why he said, you would have liked to have seen him be at this point last year in his rookie year. But he's always going to make a few plays that

get people excited. He doesn't make the easy plays, the routine plays. And those are the plays that have to be made. Yep. That is what we've said from day one. He misses the layups. You got to hit the layups before you shoot. You got to hit the layups.

Yep. The great ones do. Okay. Trevor Lawrence, we're going to close with this. Eventually you'll get to the big play. But you know I loved him. I'm a little crazy. Over the top.

I would have picked him number one years ago. He's starting to play pretty well, Greg. Yeah. You can see he's much more decisive, Colin. And I think now there's a good marriage brewing between the offensive scheme and Lawrence. Because Lawrence is a long body, long-legged. You need it to speed him up. Just everything he does need, he did need it to be quicker.

And it is now. And you know what? The ball comes out, which tells you that he's far more confident in the scheme. He knows where to go with the football. You know, don't forget, Doug Peterson comes from the Andy Reed School. That's how we grew up in the game as a coach. even as a player. He was in Philly as a player. And he's been in that offense from basically his whole life. So he understands that offense. And that offense is really well-schemed. It defines throws for

quarterbacks. We've seen that through the years. And you can see Lawrence really taking to it now. He's not getting stuck in the pocket. So the ball comes out. And I think one of the most overlooked things about Lawrence, maybe it's not overlooked, but it shows up all the time, is he's a very good throw her on the run, Colin. That may be what the thing he does absolutely best is throw the ball on the run. And actually, that's where we go, you know, with the big play this week because he was forced to throw the ball on the run on this touchdown that we're going to show where he threw it to Zay Jones for, you know, a long touchdown of 59 yards. So this was last week against the Cowboys. This was not a designed movement play. He moved out of the pocket in response to pressure.

And obviously you see the great throw. So what this is is, is this. This is just a play action type shot play. He's under center, and I like under center play action a lot more than I like shotgun play action. So you're going to see the play action element. And then Zay Jones down below is number one. He's the outside receiver on the trip side of the formation and look at the corner playing soft off coverage. And normally, you don't get over the top of corners who are playing soft, but this is a double move. It's basically an out and go.

And you can see the corner Joseph, who ended up getting benched in this game, by the way. You see that he is beat. So now what we're going to do is take this back and you're going to see Lawrence because, as I said, this play was not meant for him to leave the pocket, but he's going to get pressure from the outside rusher who's going to work inside against his right tackle and he's going to force Lawrence to leave the pocket. And Lawrence does. And he's an excellent thrower on the move.

the coaches who've coached him, and they say that's one of his absolute strengths is that he can make throws on the move. And I think that's an element of his game that's really important because Lawrence is a good thrower from the pocket, but he's not a special thrower. He's a good thrower. So now that he has this element to his game, that really enhances it. And I think you and I would probably agree that in this league now, your quarterback is going to have to make second reaction plays where he has to move due to how to do the pressure. And if you can't do that, it's tougher to play in the league. Good stuff. Greg CoSell, NFL films. Thanks, Greg. Thanks, Colin. The two takeaways I had in that segment, the Cowboys offensive personnel is

overvalued because they play for the Dallas Cowboys. C.D. Lamb, he says, is not a number one. When you look at elite number ones, Schultz is a good tight end, but not special, not Travis Kelsey level. Obviously, Zeke doesn't have the burst. The second thing I took away is what we've been saying for years. Zach Wilson on the tape, he misses too many layups. You got to get seven to eight layups completed in this league. You just have to. If you can't do the layups, you don't have the guy.

Back in a second, live in Los Angeles, it's The Herd. Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays in noon Eastern, 9 a.m. Pacific. On Fox Sports Radio, FS1, and the IHeart Radio app. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all,

embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying.

Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment.

And the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to the Clifford Show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast.

And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tap little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do with Little Kim? Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam Jek.

And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick a here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill, waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 is big to me not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack all day, but just so y'all know. I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack.

So I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now. Thank you for finishing that sentence. Yes. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really? Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history.

Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Pyes. or wherever you get your podcasts. Saturday, it's a special day of football on Fox featuring the biggest game of the year as the Eagles fight for the NFC East Crown against Dak and the Cowboys. It all kicks off Saturday. Christmas Eve at 4 Eastern One Pacific on Fox and the Fox Sports app. Greg CoSell. He's getting into the gambling space now. I can sense it.

Well, his whole takeaway is Jalen Hertz is way more valuable than people think. and Dallas's skill people and offensive perimeter people just aren't that special. It's interesting because the market disagrees with that. Remember, the Cowboys were one and a half-point favorites when it was Hertz in. He's out now and it's about six. So he's only five and a half. We know Aaron Rogers and Mahomes is like nine points in the spread. Well, Mahomes the best quarterback ever.

Okay. Jalen Hurts being... MVP in the league? Yeah, that's an award. But I mean, if Mahomes is worth 10 to 12 points, he's the best quarterback ever. I think if you're worth five, you're a franchise quarterback. Remember, Zach was Wilson, Mike White,

there was like no difference whatsoever. Okay, how about Dak and Cooper Rush? At least four and a half, right? Five? But it looks like Jalen Hertz is worth... My thing with Hertz is their offense has made the jump to light speed this year. They are incredible. Now, a lot of it is schedule-based,

but they're incredible because Hertz can beat you on the ground. That's right. That's right. Minsu ain't doing that. Right? It's going to be a drop-back passing offense. I'm wondering if there'll be... Shouldn't it be a Dallas blowout?

Can't run the same offense? Can't run the same offense? I mean, if Hurt's the MVP, MNchu can't even run the offense, Dallas at home. Okay. But is that an offense that Dallas is ready for? How much tape is there on Minchu? One and a half games last year? It's all very interesting.

Without A.J. Brown? And that's a problem, Colin. You can go back and forth on all these games and make cases for both sides. I was going to be a lawyer back in the day. I don't know if you knew that. And so I'm good at making cases for both sides. But the problem is you got to, you know, poop or get off. the pot, as they say. Yeah. I don't know. It's a stayaway game right now. Dallas, in terms of betting,

it's a stayaway game. I already took the six, so I'm pot committed, unfortunately. J. Mack with the news. No, no, no, no, turn on the news. This is the herd line news. We have a benching in the NFL. The Colts officially benched Matt Ryan for the second time. Second time this season. I feel kind of bad for Matt Ryan. Come on. The GM did not want Carson Went to be. To be. be jettisoned. He didn't remember. This was the owner that wanted to get rid of 27 touchdown, seven picks, very mobile Wents. Now, we were all over this when they benched, when the owner said, let's turn to Sam Ellinger, who by the way has not stiffed the field. Is this Jeff Saturday going Nick Foles or is this? I think Urse. Arseh runs the franchise now.

Dangerous. Erseye got rid of Wence, made no sense. Wendt had 27 TD seven picks. The Urseye got rid of Frank Reich and his play caller. Made no sense. Frank Reich's going to get a job. He's getting a job somewhere next year. One of the better ones. So, I mean, this is an organization now run by the owner.

Good luck. Nick Foles is going to be the starter. I was reading up on this during the commercial break. Always looking for an edge. You know, Nick Foles was with the practice team for most of this season? Not even like the backup throwing two guys during the practice week. This is kind of a dramatic

change. Chargers, Monday. night football? Is that a watch? Is that a must watch for you? Is this back to the slopes? Chargers are always a must watch because of Herbert. Because of Herbert. You have a man crush on him. Next up, Baker Mayfield is only with the Rams for a couple weeks. Boy, he's enjoying his time.

Spent with Sean McVeigh. Ahead of Sunday's matchup with the Broncos. Baker spoke about what he has noticed about the teaching style of his new head coach. Just how detailed he is. I mean, talking about, you know, even when a play looks good in practice, somehow fine-tuning it afterwards to the, you know, the what-if look.

What if we get this certain look? How do we want to teach the guy? I mean, it's pretty special to watch how detailed he is and just getting to know him and, you know, how he wants to put guys in good positions. You know, not to ask anybody to do something they're not capable of and just making sure he's putting guys in a great spot. That's an interesting hat from Baker.

I'm looking at it there. I'm like, what is that? Does he have his own logo now, Baker Mayfield? Well, because he didn't look like his initials. He's very much into that. Yeah, he's pretty much. entrepreneurial. I thought maybe it was the Yellowstone. Are you watching that show, by the way? I've watched every year of Yellowstone. It's great. It's really good. I like it. I thought that was a

Yellowstone hat, but no. Anyway, Baker Mayfield is still playing quarterback. Now, to a great story. Colin, this is just breaking here in the last hour. According to NBA insider Chris Haynes, rival execs believe Trey Young could be the next player on a rookie max extension to request a trade if the situation does not improve with the Atlanta Hawks. I love this team this year, Colin. They felt the 16 and 16 last night. They lost at the buzzer to the Chicago Bulls, which is embarrassing. They are ninth.

Atlanta is in the east. When you add to Janta Murray in the offseason, he's a nice player. They have a great back court. The good pieces, but the coach and Trey Young are budding heads. Young is currently in the first year of his extension that goes through 26, 27. Okay, I'll just tell you this right now. You already got a team? I don't want him to leave.

But he already had one coach pretty much run out in Atlanta. Like you're running again, Trey? This is troubling. You know, the Knicks have their guards now. James are playing well. So the Knicks are playing well. They have their guards. Who needs to shoot first point guard?

How about this? Clippers get Trey Young, give them Paul George, maybe Reggie Jackson, a Terrence, man. They can retool. Paul George, by the way, both ends, still a top 15 player in the league. Absolutely. Regular season, Paul George. Well, whatever. That's all. Whatever. Playoff P is a thing. He cannot deliver in the postseason anymore. How about this? Clippers go out because you can't depend on Kauai and Paul hasn't been great in the playoffs. Trey Young is a big city fun star. You get Trey Young. You give him Paul George, like a Reggie Jackson, the draft pick. That's a win now roster.

That's not terrible. I haven't not running through the trade machine. I mean, at some point, point, whether it's Paul George's inefficiency in the playoffs or Kauai Leonard's unavailability, Los Angeles is built for Trey Young. That's a great point. Yeah, he is a prime time guy. Star, good-looking, fun, cocky, I mean, very cocky. I would Tray Young to the Clippers and Paul George is still elite. Give him a draft. Reggie Jackson can score.

Maybe, I mean, Terrence, man. Look over your roster. What matches up? That's interesting. I like it. Ding, I wish I had a better one. And the only one I can think of is what team would be looking to unload a point guard and bring in another good point card. And if I'm the Nets, can I unload Kyrie Irving and get Tray Young or does Atlanta want another?

I'd never make that trade if I was Atlanta. I don't want Kyrie Irving. I would not either. But at anyway. He's got 10 more years dropping 25 a night. And I know all these people are like, oh, he's just Steph Curry Light. He's not good. Let me remind everybody he went to an Eastern Conference finals, something Joel Embedithes never done in his career.

And he's also, Trey Young is a. like Steph Curry, he's a showman. Remember taking the bow at Madison Square? It's something I would do. I love it. I'm a big Trey Young fan. I know he doesn't play a lick of defense, Colin.

It's like... Either as Kai Reid. Most of your great guards aren't great defenders. Hardin didn't play it for eight years. Luke is playing D yet or no? No, no. But you do like Trey Young, like you would want to add him. Yes.

You know, listen, people say he's got some attitude. Guess what? You know what? You know what he needs a strong coach. You know who you don't screw around with? Tyloo. Tyloo didn't take any of that. He's confrontational.

That's a good point. I was off on Tyloo. I thought he was overrated. He's done a good job. I know a couple guys on the Clipper staff. Tailu's good. He's confrontational. He's the opposite of Mike Dan Tony.

He'll get right in your kitchen. Tailu, Trey Young, Kauai Leonard. I like that a lot. Are we going to charge the Clippers a fee for that one? You're just giving out advice. Our consulting firm? Yeah. I don't know.

It's not terrible. I mean, it's interesting. And that's what the NBA. is. Now people are going to spend the next few weeks. Remember, it was Carl Anthony Towns for a minute. Are we going to trade him? Where's he going? By the way, Timble will stink. This Moody-Gobert. Things don't work. I'm not done. We'll get to the NBA in January. Yeah, NBA playoff. Jay Mack with the news.

Well, that's the news. And thanks for stopping by. The Herd Lie News. Be sure to catch live editions of the Herd weekdays in noon Eastern, 9 a.m. Pacific. Hey, I'm Doug Gottlie. The podcast is called All Ball. We usually talk all-bub. We usually talk all basketball all the time, but it's more about the stories about what made these people love their sport and all the interesting interactions along the way. We talk to coaches, we talk to players, we tell you stories. You download it, you listen to it, I think you like it.

Listen to All Ball with Doug Alib on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. it grotesque, others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth.

Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me. Clifford Taylor the 4th. might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger

than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations,

stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So if you've ever supported me, or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to The Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes,

follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tapped Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do a little kill? Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam J.

And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick a here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill, waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 is big to me, not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack on day, but just so y'all know. I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed correct.

So I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now. Thank you for finishing that sentence. Yes. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really? Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history.

Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Boot the losing team. Go with the winner. Switch to Consumer Cellular for Tech. talk data starting at 20 bucks a month. Consumer cellular.com slash the herd promo code to hurt. Listen, part of the fun of this job is predictions and trying to kind of see around corners and a lot of times you'll get labeled, oh, that's a hot take.

So I had said before this season, I think this is Belichick's last year in New England, is that I think Robert Kraft is going to sit down with him and say, Bob, we both own homes in Jupiter, Florida. We'll still golf together. I'll write you big check, but it's time. You're in your 70s. It's time. That was viewed by some as crazy, a hot take, but Andy Reid was fired.

Okay. So everybody has, you know, like Pat Riley used to say, you got about 10 years, and then, you know, it's white noise. Your voice just, people are just tired of it. And so it's interesting. Robert Kraft owns the Patriots. If you've read many of the great books, Jeff Benedict, Ian O'Connor, great writer, Seth Wicker, Sham. I've read every single Patriot book. All of them, there have obviously been some craft family leaks and then not always been

complimentary of Belichick, who is prone to dismiss the media and not talk to them. And so Greg Rosenthal is another member of the Boston media. He had tweets this week saying, how does he read all the Patriots coaching staff buzz? The crafts want to send a message to bill through the media. I've now counted five reporters alluding to Kraft asking Belichick what changes he'll make, meaning basically the crafts are sending messages to Bill through the media. It's not the first time the crafts have sent messages to Bill through the media. So I think Bill's rigid.

It's hard to take power from him at this point. I think he's tone deaf on offense. And I've said this. Bobby Knight would not embrace the one and done. Shashefsky did. Calipari did and they won titles. Bobby fought it, career over. Mark Zuckerberg, Metaverse. You can be brilliant and tone deaf. Nobody wants to stay online all day and pretend they're in a playtown. Nobody with a social life.

So the NFL is obviously pivoted very, very quickly to offense. And the other thing is, I think you could masquerade some of this. if you were in the NFC. But I think the offensive coaching and the quarterback play in the AFC is so substantial. Now it's, and a lot of these great quarterbacks have great

offensive coaches. Burroughs got an offensive coach from Sean McVeigh. Mahomes has Andy Reed. Trevor Lawrence now has a guy that beat and out dueled Belichick in a Super Bowl, Doug Peterson. The only coach in the AFC two of them have great quarterbacks,

chargers and bills, both have defensive coaches, and Buffalo's O-line and run game is a weakness, and the O-line and the offense, despite Herbert's a weakness with the Chargers often. So what happens if a Sean Payton took the job with Herbert? Now it's Reed and Mahomes, Zach Taylor and Burrow.

Harbon-Lamar, despite their lack of weapons, is already pretty dynamic, right, in most years. So I think what's happening is the AFC, you're getting these young coaches and these superstar quarterbacks. And in comparison in the AFC, New England just looks like a BB gun offense. It's embarrassing. They can't throw the ball down the field.

I think you could get away with it more. I mean, Brady right now is having a bad year. But in that horrible NFC division, he'll probably win the division. You can't hide in the AFC if you're tone deaf to offense. you're exposed every weekend. Let's spin this forward. End of the season. Patriots missed the playoffs.

Crafts sit down. Bill, you got to work on this. Bill says, bleep you, I'm out of here. I don't need you guys. You guys, I know football. You guys don't know anything. Does Belichick retire? Or does he go to another job the same way Tom Brady went to Tampa to win a Super Bowl? I don't think Brady wants to end his career with like some struggles.

I think Belichick largely considers retirement. Interesting. I just looked it up. He's 70 years. old. Nick Saban coaching into his 70s. Yeah. No, I think he, because I think Peyton, here's what's interesting. To show you how much

we all know awards are overrated. Like people win awards in every industry. They're not really bad. The funniest is the sports media, the awards. Whatever. So let's talk right now, if Belichick was on the market and Peyton was, you'd hire Peyton

in a second because he's an offensive coach. I mean, if I own the Chargers and state daily doesn't get to the playoffs. And I have Belichick who's rigid and a defensive coach or Peyton. It's not even close. I'd hire Sean Payton who younger. Sean Payton had a great relationship with the Benson family and Mickey Loomis.

He's his best friend. I mean, I wouldn't be shocked, honestly, if Sean Payton in three years was back coaching the Saints. Like his best friend's the GM. He loves the, I'm just guessing, I have no insight. But the point being is, Peyton works with people. He's come to Fox. He gets along with everybody. Everybody loves Sean.

along with everybody. He's hanging out in Manhattan Beach at the restaurants, the restaurant. Everybody knows Sean Payton. Everybody loves Sean Payton. So if you're giving me shot or Belichick, rigid defense, my way, awful with media, wants control over personnel, no thank you. No thank you. No thank you to Bill Belichick. I'm just telling you with Justin Herbert. No, I'm watching the Mac Jones thing. It's embarrassing. Mac Jones is not this bad. So I'm just, Ben Volan, who covers the Patriots, was on our show yesterday. Talking about New England and a potential coaching change. There is no way that anyone here in New England is accepting of Matt Patricia as the offensive coordinator.

There's a groundswell, I think, still a minority, but I think people are ready to slowly starting to move on from Bill Belichick, that if this is what it's going to be, it's time to start over. And then this loss against the Raiders, obviously the final play, just one of the dumbest plays you'll ever see in football. But the whole loss was dysfunctional. They couldn't score a touchdown on the goal line. They're burning two timeouts down there. Mack Jones is once again, you know, yelling at his teammates and brushing off his coaches. And it's just a mess right now.

They also had an issue on a punt block. You know, it's one of those things where Belichick years and years ago, I always watched for this with people like CEOs. What got you there and what are you now? So Belichick for years, no days off. Belichick for years, all about winning. And then Urban Meyer about four years ago said that Belichick had told him that at this age, I only want to coach and work with people I like.

That's not the Patriot Way. The Patriot Way was whatever it takes to win. That means you bring in Randy Moss who could be different. difficult. That means you bring in Aaron Hernandez was difficult out of college. You bring in egos. Remember the Patriot way, whatever it takes to win. That's not what they are now. We've got kids on his staff. We've got guys who have failed massively, but he likes Joe Judge. He likes Matt Patricia. Those aren't the best guys on the market. It's who he wants to coach with. He's changed. Belichick, the net worth going and he's a legend.

But everything with Bill early was all about winning. It's not, and Bill verbalized it to Urban Meyer. It's not all about winning. It's about who Bill wants to work with now. It's not the way it works. Andy Reed drafts guys and acquires guys and coaches guys

that probably drive him crazy. That's how you win. Can I float a team to you? All right. So they're really good this year. Let's say they lose in the first round and Mike McCarthy, Jerry He says, I've had enough.

And Bill Belichick is on the market. No way. The selling point, Bill, no way. You win a Super Bowl. We haven't been to a Super Bowl forever. Can you get us back there? Belichick's tight with Jimmy Johnson. He's heard all the stories.

No way. No way. Hour three. Fun though, the Hurd. One more Herd? The herd streams 24 hours a day, seven days a week within the I-Heart Radio app. Search Herd to listen live or on-demand whenever

you'd like. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel

help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth.

Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. On the Look Back at it podcast. From 1979, that was a big moment for me. 84 was big to me. I'm Sam Jay. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick a year, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we

survived it with our friends, fellow comedians, and favorite authors. Like Mark Lamont Hill on the 80s. 84 was a wild year. It was a wild year. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Listen to Look Back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast.

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