The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Hour 2 - Browns may have solved their problem

Episode Date: June 12, 2025

Rachel Nichols joins The Herd in studio to talk about how the Pacers are leading the Thunder in the NBA Finals 2-1. By drafting Shedeur in the 5th round, the Browns weren’t necessarily trying to solve their long-term problem…but they might have done itSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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And I'm C.J. Toledano. It's our favorite time of the year on our podcast point game, the playoffs. We're digging into the biggest surprises of the season. And I'm looking back on some of my greatest playoff moments. If we didn't talk ever again, I was crying. You just understood. That's how personal it got. Wow. Then after that game seven, Marquis keep coming to you. He's like, you know I love you, dog. You know, it's all love.

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iHeart Radio app by searching Fox Sports Radio or FSR. You're listening to Fox Sports Radio. Here we go. We are live in Chicago. It is the herd, wherever you may be, and however you may be listening. J. Mack, I think one of the things last night that was really interesting is that generally in the NBA finals or the conference finals, you don't have a bench player that takes over the arena. And T.J. McConnell did last night. I mean, he's just a spark plug.

But one of the reasons I love Halliburton so much, it's not just that he's a smart player. It's not the IQ. He's secure in himself. It's got an incredibly high EQ. And so as McConnell is going off, it's Halliburton's not, he's not bothered by it. He can read the arena. He is seeing the energy. And I think this is a big part of Carlisle and Halliburton.

This is why Halliburton is such. a unique player. Basically in the NBA, you got to have a bag. You know, everybody's banging on LeBron. LeBron doesn't have a bag. He's the all-time leading score. He's got more than one bag. Halliburton is totally comfortable with other players taking over a quarter. He wants to win. I listen to Halliburton and just his thoughts on T.J. McConnell taking over the game in the second quarter. His energy is unbelievable. You guys know he's definitely a crowd favorite. I joke with him. I call him the Great White Hope. He had a couple unbelievable steals. I think in the series like this, what's so important is the margins.

You've got to win in the margins. It's not necessarily who can make the most shots or anything. He's taking care of the ball, rebound in little things like that. I thought he does a great job of just giving us energy plays consistently and getting downhill and operating. I mean, nobody operates on the baseline like that guy. So I thought he did a great job of consistently getting there and just making hustle play after hustle play. I thought the game last night came down to blocks.

Ched Holmgren blocked several times. Pacers had 11 blocks. Steels. Pacers had double. Assists Pacers. And that's what he's talking about, winning on the margins. It's not just getting yours. So so much of the NBA culture, and I get it, and I kind of like it.

It's like, what's your bag? How are your handles? There's a certain aesthetic to the league. It's not just, you know, scoring. It's like Alex English led the NBA in scoring in the 80s. not Michael Jordan, Alex English. But, you know, he was like Kiki Vandoah. You'd look up, he had 28 points.

You know, their elbow, you know, free throw line, elbow extended. SGA's got a little bit of that. Like SGA, he flops, his game isn't. Halliburton is so good in the clutch, so good in late game threes. But I think the thing that jumps out to me is his ability to let others flourish and have the self-awareness to really. read the room to read the building. Remember years ago I complained that Carmelo Anthony

was he was threatened by Jeremy Lynn for two weeks. And I'm like, dude, you got to let others flourish. Team leaders are, I mean, Brady O is new. Give me a run game. I don't need to throw 48 times. Like Halliburton is just so okay other players having their moment. And boy, did several guys did last night. With that, Rachel Nichols is joining us.

live in studio. And, you know, Rachel, it is, I love watching Indiana play. But, you know, I think we all look at, oh, the Celtics are coming back and Oklahoma City's future and watch Wemby. If they resign Miles Turner, they have a lot of ascending players. I think people are forgetting, this team got to the Eastern Conference finals last year and was bad defensively. I mean, my take is, I think Indiana's talent, Rachel, doesn't take a back seat one through eight to anybody right now in this league.

Certainly not in the Eastern Conference, right? I mean, especially with Tatum out all next year. They have to be the favorite going into next season, no matter how this finals plays out, because look at what they have done, to your point, and they're going to have more confidence going into next season. And again, even if they lose the finals, they will now have a team full of players who have been to the NBA finals, who are hungry to get back to the NBA finals and who have the wherewithal to know that they can finish games even when they're behind.

And that's really the strength of this Pacer's team. They play for all 48 minutes. There have been team after team after team that keeps falling into this trap, and I don't understand it, but we see teams let up on them. And sometimes it's exhaustion. The Thunder looked tired last night, Colin,

and it's going to be interesting with only a day off between games to see how they come out on Friday. You know, we're going through era. I grew up in the 1970s, which I reference all the time, much of the chagrin of J. Mack, is that I grew up with a Walton, Jeff Petrie, Maurice Lucas Blazers, and then the downtown Freddie Brown, DJ, Gus, Williams, Sonics, and then the Rick Berry, Clifford Ray, Al Adel Warriors, and Dr. Jay and the Sixers, everybody won one. Everybody won one. And people

say, what the league was, my great memories of the NBA as a kid are all from the 70s. And we're going through the same thing where every year it's a different team in the NBA. And last night was a real moment for me because I looked at myself and I thought, man, is this team going to run off multiple titles? And they do have a little bit of a kryptonite. They need the whistle. And when SGA doesn't get the whistle,

Rachel, you saw it last night. Their shot creation, the last six minutes was bad. So I feel like you can kind of look and go, everybody's got like, Yokic wasn't a great defender. That was their kryptonite. Like you could attack Yokic. Do you think, do you think Indiana looks the small? morning at O KCN thinks, we found a little bit of their kryptonite, which is attack SGA.

If he doesn't get the whistle, they're four and four and eight playoff games when he doesn't. Yeah, I mean, to your point, this is a nerdy stat, but Chez-Jolz Alexander was actually the closest defender on the most amount of Indiana shots. I think 23 shots. So that tells you that they were involving him. They were going at him. And what happened, the result was that they were scoring. So yes, I think that is a little bit of it.

But big picture, I guess my thought is that we are so quick in sports today to rush to be like, they're amazing or they're trash. And in this case, it was the Thunder are one of the best teams ever. The Thunder were one of the best teams this season. They're one of the best teams of the last few years. The point differential. The way they won games was historic. But this team is not the 86 Celtics.

This team is not the 2001 Lakers. This is not Steph Curry's Golden State Warriors in their prime. It is a team that is young. as you say, has some flaws here and there, and we'll still have to see with SGA. I mean, look, if he wins this finals and wins finals MVP, he will already have the accolades to get into the Hall of Fame, just off this one year, scoring title, regular MVP, finals MVP if he gets it, title, that kind of thing. But he's not there yet, they haven't won yet, so we just have to see how good this Thunder

team is. And what I love is that the Pacers are showing people they are better than people thought. The gap is smaller than people thought, and they are going to be able to be able to be test the thunder yeah okay let's talk nix um i'll just i'm going to leave the the the dance floor open here um james dolin was gone for a couple years you know creating the sphere and they became very pragmatic and they were very patient i mean they were like not the nicks and this is not a shot at dolan but he fashions himself as an artist and a friend of artists and all the names i see as the next coach or all star coaches like phil jackson is gm

I'm telling you, it feels like they're kind of bailing water here, or do they have a plan? Well, they clearly don't have a plan. I mean, that's obvious. And you can quibble about the Tibbo thing. I would never have fired him after he led the Knicks to their best season in 25 years after all he has done in the five years. He has been there has won. And by the way, I've covered Tibbs on three different teams. I've known him for 20 years.

I understand that the Tibbs experience wears on people. I'm not saying that he was a perfect coach or there weren't probably. problems. But this is a results-based business. And he got the results. And some of the complaints I've heard coming sort of in the reporting from players has been like, oh, we didn't have enough scrimmages in the preseason. What? That's what you're talking about now? There's some complaints about, oh, we didn't practice end-of-game situations enough. I don't know. You won enough end-of-game situations that you got to game six to the Eastern Conference finals. And by the way, the longer the Pacers extend this finals, they don't even have to win it. The longer they extend it,

the more losing to the Pacers in six games feels like, is that really a fireable offense? So I had a problem with the decision to begin with and to do this and not know who your next coach is is just a little bit insane. And then to really ask around to six different teams if their coaches are available is a lot insane. And the line out of Madison Square Garden is

they're just trying to assess who is and isn't available. That is not how you do this. And by the way, who thought Ime Udoka would be available? Who thought that Chris Fitch, who just left, led Minnesota to two back-to-back conference finals and has a great relationship with his star, would be available. I mean, just my 13-year-old could have told you that. I just, it shocks me the way they're going about this. It really does. So I want to talk about Janus.

KD fits almost everywhere. I think San Antonio is a bit of a weird fit for him, but he fits in Houston, he fits in Miami, he fits in New York. To get Janus, you have to give up draft capital. And I think I've told you this, Rachel, I think that NBA draft is going to get better going forward because more players are staying in college basketball with NIL, and they're also stealing top European players from Spanish leagues. So college basketball, that Kentucky, that Yukon team two years ago, that's like seven NBA guys. Like we're going back to a time when Ewing and Georgetown and Duke, it was like those teams had NBA guys that could play. So I don't think giving up draft picks, which 10 years ago, I mean, you were getting 18-year-olds. Right.

I wouldn't give up draft picks. How big do you think the Yonis market is? We know KD you don't have to give up as much. But you're changing the ecosystem with Yonis. I saw a story yesterday. Nope, he won't leave. this roster is not good enough to compete. I mean, outside of Yonis, who on this roster could play for Indiana?

So what is your gut feeling on Yonis and Milwaukee? Well, look, I think there is a good chance that he stays, and I think it is about more than winning. I mean, guys who have been around the league for a long time understand that to win a title, you have to have not only the roster, not only the players, not only in the chemistry, you have to have a tremendous amount of luck. The wrong guy can't get injured at the wrong time. Janice himself has been on the other end of that three years in a row now, who you run up against in the bracket.

So changing and uprooting your whole life to be like, oh, maybe with this team I could get a title, there are players who will do that every time, and then there are players who think twice about that sort of thing. And I think that is what Janus is doing right now. If he does decide to leave, if you know what, I need a second ring, I'm going to chase it, I'm going to see where I can go. If you are a team that is close, I disagree with you, Colin.

I would give up the farm for Janice Antis Ducupo. I would give up anything that they want that would still keep me with enough of the championship core because the future is the future. If you win a title, maybe even two titles, because you added Janice and Tukupo to an already stacked roster, which are the guys, those are the teams that are really most in the market for him, right, where they really feel like they have something already and they're one Janus away from a title. He is not only one of the best players in the league, if his numbers had been in a vacuum

this year, he would have won MVP. If Yokic and SGA didn't exist and weren't dueling the way they were, Janice absolutely would have won MVP. He's only 30 years old. He's still at the top of his game. He's so dominant. I would absolutely tear things up. Certainly my future picks.

If I could get Janus and I was a team that was close-ish to a championship, close-ish, I would, I'd do it. By the way, before we go, Malone from Denver, I know he runs hot. I know he runs hot. but he's considered a very good scheme coach.

Like he knows his stuff. Is he in the running? Like, why isn't he being mentioned? I think just because he and Tibbs are so alike, and I think some of the reasons Tom did get fired from New York is being a bit set in his ways, of being a bit obstinate about things. Michael Malone is known for both of those things.

You know, the latest reporting is that they are now, now that they've moved on from asking other guys for their wives, basically, asking other teams for their head coaches. They are now talking to Mike Brown. They're looking at Taylor Jenkins. Those names are the names I would have expected them to start with. And, you know, they could be good fits there. We'll see.

I mean, they're both excellent coaches. But I still, you know, they've set such a bar with firing Tom after game six the Eastern Conference Finals. Whoever comes into that job, if they don't want a title, the Knicks have already told all of us that that's a failure. And that's quite a strange thing to do as a franchise. Yeah, whenever I hear that coach runs hot, Steve Kerr runs hot. Yeah.

Oh, absolutely. I mean, there's some broken clipboards, yes. Yeah, like these guys all run hot. It's an intense league. Rach, great seeing you as always. Thank you. All right. Yeah, I think Malone's pretty good.

I thought he got kind of a raw deal in Denver. So he wanted to play Westbrook and the GM wanted to play the draft picks. But if you watch the playoffs, Westbrook was incredibly important for Denver's energy. So Malone is like, I want to play Russell Westbrook more. Well, you watch Westbrook in the play. playoffs. I've been a Westbrook critic. I thought he was great. I think he was unbelievable for Denver. So I side with Malone. I would hire him. The whole he runs hot. Steve Kerr is a barker. Like, I mean, Steve Kerr is intense. Spolstra is super intense. He and LeBron had multiple

engagements that weren't pleasant. Pat Riley was intense. I don't worry about that stuff. One more herd? The herd streams 24 hours a day, seven days a week within the I-Hard app. Search her to listen live or on demand whenever you'd like. Hey, it's us, the Jonas Brothers, and guess what? We have some big news. What's the news, name? Huge news. We created our own podcast called, Hey Jonas. We invented a podcast. Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to it. We're the first people to do podcasts. Pretty, yeah, pretty wide range of podcasts throughout there. But this one's extra special. So how did we, how do we actually come up with a name Hey Jonas, guys? I honestly don't remember. I think it was on a call about,

what we should call it. Well, we were thinking I'm originally calling it one of the early names of our band before Jonas Brothers. This is how you guys remember it going down? Yes. I have a very different memory of this. We were talking about a thing, a bit for the podcast,

for people could call in and say, hey, Jonas. And then I wrote down on my little notepad, Hey Jonas, and offered it up as a potential title for the podcast. But thanks for remembering that, guys. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast. or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it.

Another podcast from some SNL, late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, S&L's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel help an a cappella band with their between songs banter.

Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel. Michael and friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in.

I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves, their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context and ask the questions everybody wants answered. SportsSlice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to SportsSlice on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slicelife-12 in the TikTok podcast network on TikTok.

The French Open is one of the toughest tests in tennis. and I know firsthand because I competed there myself. I'm Renee Stubbs, and on the Renee Stubbs tennis podcast, I'm breaking down everything happening at Roland Garris. Every match, every upset, and what it really takes to win on Clay. Jenchian won. I mean, she went down at three to Rabakina, but I'm delighted. She's an outsider to win the French for me.

And she likes Clay. Listen, Lena Rabakina is arguably the best player in the world right now, and I actually can win on any surface. Because if she's serving, well, good luck. Consider this your court side seat to the French Open. Listen to the Renee Stubbs tennis podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHeart Women's Sports. On Jay Mack, a lot of things going.

I want you to keep your eye over the next couple of weeks, Jay Mack, on that Seder story. Because, you know, I'm busy. I'm not sure if I can get to it. But the numbers coming out of Ohio. So you want me to monitor what she does against the backups? Hold on. I got a plug it. I did plug it.

I can't hear you. I can do that. Go ahead, Jamack. I can monitor the reps against number twos, the FedEx drivers. Sure, I can watch those numbers. Jamak with the news. No, no, no, no. Turn on the news.

This is the herd line news. We're going to start here with an established quality quarterback, and his name is Brock Purdy. He has a lot of pressure on. on him this season, you know, you get the bag, and all of a sudden you got to deliver. Bertie is now the highest paid niner, and Trent Williams is ecstatic for his quarterback. It's super, super fulfilling just to watch a guy like Rock. And, I mean, you talk about a Cinderella story. I think it's the epitome of that, you know, got from going, making, you know, a few hundred thousand a year to making 50 million years.

It's astronomical. And it couldn't happen to a better guy. He is the guy for this team. He is a guy for this franchise. He will. I mean, this is just a tip of iceberg. He's going to get another contract. He's going to win a lot of football games.

He's that good of a player. We could talk about the American dream, Cowherd. The American sports dream is what happened to Brock Purdy. Right? Last pick in the draft, Mr. Irrelevant. Literally called Mr. Irrelevant. And then next thing, you know, he's got the Niners in the AISNNNNNNN-C title game, and then the Super Bowl, and he goes from making, like, I think it's $700,000 to $53 million.

Like, that is the American sports dream. Well, Kurt Warner wasn't drafted. Either was Romo. The key is... Well, Romo never got to the Super Bowl. But let's not pretend you can duplicate this. Sometimes stuff is lightning in a bottle where it's a one-off. You're not going to find Kurt Warner, who's a top 20 quarterback I've ever seen play.

Like, Kurt Warner was... I don't care what the numbers are. He was a great quarterback. is that sometimes you're not going to find Yokic in the second round. Don't get used to that. We're never going to find, in the history of the NBA, we'll never have the best player taken from the second round. That will never happen again.

Probably not. But, you know, the Yokic was found in, like, the mountains of wherever he's from. Janus was also found in, you know, BFE, Greece. Like, you're finding these guys, you've got to scale the globe. I mean, NFL teams, maybe they've got to look harder to find the next Kurt Warner. He's out there somewhere. You know that. Well, I think what NFL scouts do almost to a fault is they fall in love with traits. So if you're not 6-2, if you're not 2-18, if you don't have a big arm, you get knocked off boards.

And I think, now, I do think that stuff matters. There's a reason. I mean, people can say the NFL doesn't know what they're doing with quarterbacks. Yeah, they do. Marino first round, Peyton first round, Manning first down. I mean, just go through all these guys. Lamar first round. Allen first down. Mahalms' first round.

The great quarterbacks of all time overwhelmingly. It's just that Montana and Brady did not, and Kurt Warner was undrafted. But there's a reason players drop. I mean, Jalen Hertz is great, but he's still not a great pocket passer if you talk to Greg Sorry, sorry. That's inaccurate.

Greg CoSell wins on our show. Greg CoSell's been telling me for two years. And he said it about Russell Wilson at the time. Because of his height, he misses throat. Tua acknowledges. I can't see everything the big guys can. So you can win all the games you want, but when Greg Kosel says, like, he misses throws. So there's a, but there are traits that NFL guys look for, and Brock doesn't have a lot of them. In fact, you said yesterday, well, his, his brain's the key. Hard to see the

brain. Like, like, Iowa State, you're like, yeah, I mean, I guess, but is it coaching or is it, so I mean, I think there's a reason he dropped. I mean, there's a reason Tom Brady dropped. You could say he dropped or teams whiffed on him, including the Niners in the draft. But to go back, just to be clear, the numbers from PFF say Jalen Hertz is one of the best pocket passes in the league, 77%. He's awesome. But I know he doesn't have the hype. So maybe that's the issue.

And there's so many first round quarterback whiffs. I mean, obviously there are a lot of hits in the first, but there's a lot of wiffs. Maybe it's because people see, oh, he's 6'4 with a cannon arm. We got to bring this guy on. I mean, look at James Winston. That's a massive whiff. Well, but I mean, you have to take a quarterback if you need it. Like next year, Cleveland, if Shadour Sanders doesn't hit, I think he will.

I mean, like Tennessee this year had to take a quarterback. The coaching staff's going into year two off a losing season, and Will Levis isn't the answer. So you do get trapped. It's the one position that I think we should allow for overdrafting. Never overdraft a wide receiver. There's a million in the NFL. Don't overdraft for interior offensive linemen or offball linebacker.

safeties, don't over draft for that stuff. But a great center, I would get him in the first round. A great tied end, Brock Bowers, draft him in the first round. But I do think quarterback is, if you need it, draft it. Okay, so let's do the Saints real quick. I know nobody cares about the Saints. We never talk about him on the show. They drafted the kid Tyler Shuck.

And everybody's like, what are you doing? Because he looks the part, six foot seven, big arm. Meanwhile, he's like 26, 27 years old. Shadour was sitting out there, he would have sold tickets. Shadur would have sold tickets in New Orleans. Ain't nobody showing up to see Tyler Shuck. I don't understand that right there. I think what people say, the NFL doesn't get quarterbacks in the first round and early.

I think that Tyler Shuck is kind of one of the examples. Well, I think, don't the Saints have Spencer Rattler? And I think if you go back and look at both of them out of college, I think Rattler had a higher ceiling than Shuck. So to me, I didn't get what New Orleans is doing. I don't trust New Orleans since Sean Pays. and Drew Brees left. I just don't like the direction of the franchise and their hires.

But I'll push back that the NFL doesn't know what they're doing. I'm sure there's, I mean, you go look at the NBA draft. Did Steph Curry go number one? No. There's a lot of, where did Halliburton go? Like there's a lot of dudes in the NBA. The best defensive player of all time, Draymond Green went in the second round.

The best player in the world went in the second round. I think Tony Parker went late first or second round, Manu Genoobli. So it's inexact. When you're drafting young people, it's just in exact. Baseball, Mike Piazza, wasn't he like a 60-second round pick or something crazy? Like, there's examples of it in every sport.

I agree. Let's go to the New York Giants in their quarterback room features Russell Wilson, Jackson Dart, James Winston. But, Colin, there seemed to be some issues. According to the New York Daily News, the Giants offensive operation with Russell Wilson at the helm has not been smooth, consistently productive, or explosive. I have been saying from the moment Jackson Dart got to the podium, he won over the media. I'm just telling you, he looks the part, he sounds it, he's like asking guys their name, the little things. And then Jackson Dart, is there a world where he takes his job from Russ like early in September?

I would not be shocked. Russell Wilson, another guy, by the way, as Brian Davel will find out, that doesn't always see open receivers because of a height issue. I know we love the short quarterback thing, but it does matter. Joe lineman 6-6 to 6-7. So I think I never saw Jackson Dart as a first-round quarterback, but I will say this. We look at New York as a tire fire,

but Brian Daibble, as a coach, is a pretty good opening coach in the NFL. Like, we looked at Washington as a mess. Remember last year with Washington, we were like new owner, new GM, new coach, new coordinators, but all the new guys were good. I think you can do a lot worse than Brian Daibol as your first coach in the NFL.

So I think we're going to see the best of Jackson Dart. Whether he's good enough, I don't know. I thought he was more of a second, third-round pick. But we'll get the best of him. And I think Russell Wilson, I mean, Pittsburgh last year, at the last five games, he was just ineffective. So, and I think, you know, Pete Carroll moved off him, Sean Peyton moved off him. Mike Tomlin moved off him. Yeah.

We have a, we have a, Mike Tomlin always says two is a trend. Well, Russell's on a three-team team trend, which is, High profile coaches, Pete, Peyton, and Tomlin have all moved off Russ. So that tells me Jackson Dart's going to get looks. So I just went to the NFL draft combine measurements. Jackson Dart, 6-2-223. J.J. McCarthy, 6.2.5, 219. So almost identical, hand-sized similar, and Brock Purdy 6-1-212.

So all those guys are kind of in the same space size-wise, Colin. And, you know, to go back to Russell Wilson, some stats on the screen here, he's not been very good in the last three years. You know, he's down there. Well, I mean, just, I mean, seriously. Oh, my God. Three straight Hall of Fame level coaches have moved off Russell. That's, that's, I mean, Pete couldn't get him out of town fast enough, and Sean Peyton, and he just did not, we're not compatible, compatible. And I, Tomlin, according to his story last week, J. Mack, the Steelers wanted to resign Justin Pee.

They didn't want, Russ. Yeah, they wanted fields. So, I mean, Tomlin, even though he benched him by the end of the year, wanted to work with him. So I think the trend is Russell Wilson will not start 17 games. Yeah, I agree. Final story, Collins, Bill Belichick, you know, things have died down with the Jordan Hudson matter lately. However, yesterday Belichick conducted a rare press conference and addressed the issues. I'm just going to call them issues

that have emerged outside of the product on the football field. Here we go. Is there noise out there? We've always dealt with that. Really, you know, our job is to build the football team and for the team to, you know, help build the team and also build their individual careers.

No, she doesn't have any role in the UNC football program. But, again, there's been, you know, noise out there about a lot of different things. Again, our focus is, you know, day-to-day, getting better, stacking good days together. I like that he addresses it. You know how I feel about this relationship. Some people can't spot true love. Others can.

Oh, come on. So, Colin, I know you're, I don't want, that's probably making it too personal. I was going to say your daughter comes home and she's like, I met a 70-year-old guy. I want to date. Yeah, yeah, let's see how you take that one of the guy. I know, I mean, my daughter's way younger than that middle school. But that would be a little like, where have I failed as a parent? Like, how does that happen, man?

Well, I, you know, you got to admit something's a little off. 24 or whatever and 70? A 50 year age gap? Well, I'm not a moralist on this stuff. I'm not judgmental. It gets to be a moralist. I think it's just common sense. What do they have in common?

Give me one thing they got. They have in common. They're both aspirational-driven people. Well, what's wrong with that? I love it. You know, I did not know you would be so good on this topic. When it came out, I was like, ooh, this is a no-fly zone. Jay Max, stay away.

I'm going to say something I regret. And Cowher's just diving in, like, I mean, he's Michael Phelps. Just because something, I wouldn't do something, I don't invest in Bitcoin. I think there's Grifters everywhere. Missing out. But I know smart people that, you know, are given, they're not putting their portfolio in it. I think it's Gryfter Paradise. It's unregulated currency.

Like, stay away. There's a lot of people that think it's great. So that doesn't mean. I am not comfortable at this point putting, you know, my equity portfolio there. But I'm not anti. It obviously has made people a lot of money. You can put 5% of your portfolio. Yeah, I don't have a problem with it.

I'm just saying my take is just because somebody does something that it makes me a little squeamish or not something I would do. That doesn't, that does. I'm not going to jump out of a plane. My son did. Okay. I'm not doing that. I'm not swimming with sharks. but I had a friend who did.

Have you talked with Anne at all about Belichick dating this young woman? Well, she doesn't like it. Interesting. I found Anne very sharp and smart, very wise individual every time I've talked with her. You are too, except when you talk Jalen Hertz. No, she doesn't like it. And it's, you know, I try to avoid topics that get her riled up. She's an artist and she's emotional and I don't need to rile her up.

So if she gets, if she's unhappy, let's wrap it up. We don't talk a lot of politics. J-Mack with the news. Well, that's the news. And thanks for stopping by. The Heard Lye News. Eric Mangini's around the corner. It's interesting to me that, you know how when people were saying, you know,

and this was on the liberals kept saying, follow the science, follow the science. A lot of Democrats were preaching to Republicans. Follow the science. Follow the science. And then they didn't follow the science. Right? Like, you know, see, be careful what you lecture. But everybody's always telling me, this is your opinion.

You have a bias. You have an anti-Shaduer Sanders bias if you don't think he's the best quarterback in camp for Cleveland. Look at the numbers. You're telling me to follow the data, to not be biased. The numbers dictate that clearly Shadur is the most. most accurate by a long shot in Cleveland camp. I'm following your orders. I have no bias.

You know, it's, I mean, I criticized Dion for his Super Bowl proclamations that he didn't want to go to certain teams. And I didn't like draft day war room by Shadour. I thought it was cringy. These numbers. Sorry for the radio audio. These numbers. 3444.

Dylan Gabriel's 38 to 70. Eric Mangini and I'll talk about that next. Be sure to catch live editions of the. heard weekdays in noon Eastern 9 a.m. Pacific on Fox Sports Radio, FS1, and the IHeart Radio app. Hey, we're Kavino and Rich. Fox Sports Radio every day, 5 to 7 p.m. Eastern. But here's the thing. We never have enough time to get to everything we want to get to. And that's why we have a brand new podcast called Overpromised. You see, we're having so much fun in our two-hour show.

We never get to everything. Honestly, because this guy is over-promising things we never have time for. Yeah, you blubber lips. me. Well, you know what? It's called overpromise. You should be good at it because you've been overpromising women for years. Well, it's a Kavino and Rich after show and we want you to be a part of it. We're going to be talking sports, of course, but we're also going to talk life and relationships. And if Rich and I are arguing about something or we didn't have enough time, it will continue on our after show called Overpromised. Well, if you don't get enough, Kavino and Rich, make sure you check out Overpromised,

and also uncensored, by the way. So maybe we'll go at it even a little harder. It's going to be the best after show podcast of all time. There you go. Overpromising. And remember, you could see it on YouTube, but definitely join us. Listen to Overpromised with Kavino and Rich on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, it's us to Jonas Brothers, and guess what? We have some big news. What's the news, dude? Huge news. We created our own podcast called, Hey Jonas.

We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to a... We're the first people to do podcasts. Pretty, yeah, pretty wide range of podcasts around there. But this one's extra special. So how did we actually come up with a name, Hey Jonas, guys? I honestly don't remember. I think it was on a call about what we should call it.

Well, we were thinking I'm originally calling it one of the early names of our band. Before Jonas Brothers was... This is how you guys remember it going down? Yes. I have a very different memory of this. We were talking about a thing, a bit for the podcast where people could call in and say, Hey, Jonas. And then I wrote down on my little notepad, Hey Jonas, Jonas.

and offered it up as a potential title for the podcast. But thanks for remembering that, guys. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smigel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman

help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise. breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves, their locker room stories, their reactions,

the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context, and ask the questions everybody wants answered. Sports Slice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to Sports Slice. radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slicelife 12 and the TikTok podcast network on TikTok.

The French Open is one of the toughest tests in tennis. And I know firsthand because I competed there myself. I'm Renee Stubbs. And on the Renee Stubbs tennis podcast, I'm breaking down everything happening at Roland Garris. Every match, every upset, and what it really takes to win on clay. Jen Chinchin win. I mean, she went down in three to Rabakina. But I'm delighted.

She's an outsider to win the French for me. And she likes Clay. Listen, Lernerabakina is arguably the best player in the world right now. And I actually can win on any surface. Because if she's serving, well, good luck. Consider this your court side seat to the French Open. Listen to the Renee Stubbs tennis podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHeart Women's Sports. Jets, Cleveland Browns. Now he works for Fox Sports. Former NFL head coach, Eric Mangini is joining me live. And we got stuff to talk about. So you still have a place in Ohio. You know the Browns. You know the personnel well.

I'm a big fan of Kevin Stefanski and Andrew Barry. I don't always love the impulsive nature of the ownership, but I think they accumulated a second first round pick. So they're going to go out for a quarterback next year. And my take is I think they got one in Shador Sanders. So I know it's OTAs and I know it's mandatory camp. and I can't take a ton from it. But when you look at Shadoor's numbers,

he's duplicating what he did at college. Whenever a college quarterback, like when Tim Tebow ran around in college, you're like, what an athlete. He got to the NFL and you're like, yeah, he's not an NFL athlete. Same with Johnny Mansell. Jaden Daniels ran in college.

You watch him in the NFL and you're like, oh, that translates. Shadur's accuracy, 74% in college. He's now at 77% in camp. And you could say, well, it's just camp. Well, why are the other quarterbacks in 58% for the Browns? It means something, does it not? Yeah, it means a little something, but I wouldn't read too much into it.

I feel like you might be a bronze beatwriter, Colin, because this hype train in Cleveland is so ridiculous right now. And I get it. There is a desperation coming off with Deshaun Watson for some quarterback to emerge, for someone, hope to be there for the franchise. And they thought Chodor could potentially be a, you know, a high-pick form. And then they get him in the fifth round. So it's just, it exploded in Cleveland the second that he got here. And what Kevin Stefansky is trying to do is he's trying to tamper it down.

He's trying to push it down. And you see, all of his reps have been with the back-end guys. He hasn't gotten any reps with the ones. To me, that's a good decision because as soon as he gets in with the ones, then the hype train is going to roll even further. I'd say the numbers have to be taken with a gigantic grain of salt. There's a lot of learning going on for him, and to see the numbers, that's positive,

but he's also working versus the back end of the roster, so his numbers should be a little bit higher just based on that as well. The other issue with Shador, it's not accuracy. It's how well he can deal with pressure in the pocket, the constant need to extend plays, the unnecessary sacks he took. And you're looking at an offensive line and a team in Cleveland had one of the worst percentages of sacks giving up last season of anybody. So I just say you can get excited, but don't be too excited.

All right. That's how I feel about Pittsburgh and Aaron Rogers. He is now a pocket quarterback. Arthur Smith can be pretty inflexible. they lost their left tackle, Naji Harris, and their top receiver. I don't have high hopes for it. I said, eight wins, 23 touchdowns, 11 picks. I think that's being, and yesterday I went out and I looked at this.

I took the nine older quarterbacks past their prime to went to new teams. Brady, Manning, and Stafford won Super Bowls. They all won that Super Bowl with an offensive coach. Philip Rivers, by the way, with Frank Reich, had a terrific one year in Indianapolis. If you remember that, he was like a 97 passer rating 11 wins, went toe to toe with Josh Allen in Buffalo in the playoff game. The guys that don't work, the older quarterbacks, defensive coach, defensive culture, inexperienced coach.

And my takeaway, Eric, is as a quarterback gets older, he doesn't want to get hit, he's got to have the right left tackle, you can't just bulldoze through problems with your athletic ability. And I think Aaron's at a point now, he don't want to get hit. They don't have a strong left tack. I don't think it's going to be a dynamic year for him. Thoughts from you.

Yeah, it may not be a dynamic year, but can we give the Steelers credit? They had Justin Fields, Russell Wilson, and now Aaron Roger, for two years, and it cost them only $20 million. That's unbelievable. And when you look at what happened last season with Justin and Russell, they weren't great, but they were a lot better. than their last stop. They were a lot better than, you know, Justin was a lot better than when he was in Chicago and Russell was a lot better than when he was in Denver. So you would think that Aaron's

going to come in and be better than he was in New York. And his numbers weren't terrible in New York. What do you have 27 Tyson's and 11 picks? The picks were a little bit high, but you've got a chance. He gives you a chance. And that's really what this is about. There weren't great alternatives for Pittsburgh in the draft. There weren't great alternatives for Pittsburgh. in free agency. So this is somewhat of a marriage of necessity and convenience that's inexpensive. And here's what I'll say about the offense and dealing with an older quarterback. I had Brett Farr in New York.

And if you're going to make those guys work, you better do what they do well. So for Arthur Smith, you can be inflexible, but you're going to be inflexible to the detriment of your offense. Give Aaron whatever he needs to be successful, understand. you may not love it. It may not be what's your ideal. But if you're going to bring in a 41-year-old quarterback, do what he does well and do a lot of it. And you can readjust next season. But that gives you the best chance to make this work right now. So I like mystery with my true crime series.

I like mystery on movies. I do not love mystery with quarterbacks. I didn't like when I didn't get footage of Jordan Love for three years. And everybody's telling me, oh, the practices at Minnesota with J.J. McCarthy. And my take is they flirted with Donald, reportedly wanted to resign. They flirted with Daniel Jones. There's some that say they looked at Aaron Rogers. I feel like there's a lot of flirting.

Flirting leads the trouble in all aspects of life. What do you expect from J.J. McCarthy? I got one preseason game, Vanilla defenses. backups hurt to surgeries. What are you expecting? Yeah, I'm a little bit like you, Colin. It's the old May West phrase. If you've got to tell people you're a lady, then you're not. If you've got to constantly tell everybody how great your quarterback is, how wonderfully, you start to worry that they're doing it to pump him up, to give him confidence. And I didn't love him coming out in the draft and now we're a year removed he's coming off of an injury he has no experience the

good news is at least he's over a lot of the rookie things he he's got the background of the offense he's been through a lot of the things that rookies go through that make it really challenging but he hasn't been through the most important thing which is which is multiple defensive looks and and all the things happening in real time and now he's doing it coming off of an injury i know they went and got sam howell as a backup i could see this being a landing spot for for kirk cousins at some point as an insurance policy if this doesn't work because atlanta i think is going to have to wants to move off from him and he wants to to move on and he has a good relationship with that staff and that city uh so so yeah they they want to make this work

they've invested a lot in him i don't know if they have a real conviction uh with it or if they're just trying to build up everybody's confidence. Okay, finally, Caleb Williams, Ben Johnson's been outspoken. Ben said a couple of different times, we're not there yet. He's been tough on him at practice. My take at USC, Lincoln Riley didn't trust the O line, Caleb's last year in USC, and he let Caleb do a lot more ad-libbing and running because he kind of felt guilty that I'm not, he's going to be the number one pick.

I'm not going to get this kid hurt and ruin his NFL prospects. So the last year at USC, it was a lot of hero ball. I think Caleb got into some bad habits. Iber flu staff didn't know how to corral him. I think he's got bad habits, but great talent. What do you expect Ben Johnson? Some of the comments are Ben's like, hey, we're not there, we're doing this wrong. And I understand it.

His last year at USC was a little ad-lived, and I think you get into bad habits that way. Yeah, you're absolutely right. What you saw with Caleb was a lot of the same things that you saw with Shadour, where he's running around. He's extending plays. But with Caleb, you saw these wow plays time and time again when he was doing that, which excites you. And you saw the overwhelming talent. So then he gets into pro football. He's drafted where he's drafted.

There's so much hype around him. He doesn't do anything to tamper down the hype. He, if anything, continues to build the expectations. So now we're a year removed. and Daniels ends up being the star of last year. And I'm sure this for Caleb, now there's probably a level of openness to coaching that maybe wasn't there when he first got into pro football, that maybe wasn't there when he was at USC, where he's thinking, okay, I know what's best.

So now he's got an offensive coordinator and a head coach that can really help him take the next step, provided he's willing to listen very carefully, to do the things that they're asking to do, to be patient with the things that they're asking him to do. And I think he should have as good a situation as you can have with the change in coaching staff as long as he's open to holding up his end of the bargain. Yeah.

Eric Mangini undisclosed location, I can assure you, though, it's nice and semi-tropical. Great to see you, Colin. great to see you um by the way jemak i want to go back to this remember the saquan barclay leads the nfl and lights licensed merchandise sold right micha parsons is ninth yep no other cowboy in the top 15 and i think a lot of this is um are you winning football games in january and february and i think the more games you win like saquan barclay and patrick mahomes and jaylon herds and jaden daniels and josh allen and the detroit lions i i do think it matters Travis kelsey's up there

do you know in the last 10 years January-February football games where the Dallas Cowboys are in the NFL winning percentage January and February football games last 10 years last 10 years 2 and 8

3rd worst in the league the Cowboys have the worst record 9 and 23 in the NFL in January and February since their last Super Bowl win 96 oh goodness now think about that the worst record in the the league. That's worse than

everybody in the NFC South. And the AFC South. Not great. They have the worst record in the league, 9 and 23, in January and February, since their last Super Bowl win in 96. And I think if you look at that list, there's a lot of guys that win then. Hey, guys, it's us. The Jonas Brothers. I'm Joe.

I'm Kevin. And I'm Nick. And guess what? We created our own podcast called, Hey, Jonas. We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to it. We're the first people to do podcasts. We get to ask other people questions because we're sick and tired of being asked questions. Well, sick and tired is a strong way to put it, but, you know, tired and sick.

Tired and sick. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel. Help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes.

Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Winning on Clay is an art. The rallies are relentless. And at the French Open, only the toughest survive. I'd know. I competed there for decades.

Join me, Renee Stubbs, on the Renee Stubbs tennis podcast for no nonsense breakdowns of the biggest matches, the toughest players, and the moments said to find Roland Garris. She's an outsider to win the French for me. And she likes Clay. Listen, Lerner Rabakina is arguably the best player in the world right now. And I actually can win on any surface. Listen to the Renee Stubbs tennis podcast on the Iheart Radio app.

Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHeart Women's Sports. What's up, fam? It's Isaiah Thomas. And I'm C.J. Toledano. It's our favorite time of the year on our podcast point game, the playoffs. We're digging into the biggest surprises of the season. And I'm looking back on some of my greatest playoff moments. If we didn't talk ever again, I was hungry.

You just understood. That's how personal it got. Wow. Then after that game seven, Marquis come in too, he's like, you know I love you, dog. You know, it's all love. This was just playoffs. This was just basketball. So listen to Point Game on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed human.