The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Hour 2 - Caleb Williams

Episode Date: May 15, 2025

Colin talks about the news story of Caleb Williams' father not wanting his son to be drafted by the Bears  Many believe the Browns owner pushed for Shedeur Sanders to be drafted    Guest: Albert Breer  See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Find your local station for the herd at Fox SportsRedio.com or stream us live every day on the IHeart Radio app by searching Fox Sports Radio or FSR. You're listening to Fox Sports Radio. Welcome in. It is hour two in Chicago. It is the herd. So, J-Mack, a year ago, a little more than a year ago. I went on the air before the draft. And I said I have a pretty good contact with Caleb Williams. He's going to be the number one pick.

But there are concerns about the Chicago Bears. it would not be his first pick because of the history of the franchise. And I think it's, I've said this before. The harder you work, the better you are as a college athlete, the worst team you go to. If you're a young lawyer, a young architect, a young tech star, you can go to a better company. Kevin Durant's going to a worst team out of college or John Wall or whoever is the best player. So I said there's real, there's some real concern. about Chicago, but my source told me he doesn't want to be a bad guy. It's a great city.

He's just going to make the most of it. Well, I got assailed. I got ripped by Chicago. Radio personalities. Very sad, very hurtful. Well, what do you know? Seth Wickersham, who is one of the best at what he does in the country, a journalist for ESPN reports that Caleb and his family, Wade blowing up the entire draft, consulting with lawyers to figure out a way around the league's collective bargaining agreement. Considered signing with a UFL just not to go to Chicago. Caleb told his father he wanted to play for the Vikings after meeting Kevin O'Connell. I would as well. Aaron Rogers rumored wanted to play for Kevin O'Connell, the guy they call the tall Sean McVeigh.

Now, one of the reasons I was told, and now it comes out in the story, he had looked, it was a defensive coach, the coach was on the hot seat, he just did not trust the organization to help him. In the Wickersham piece today, Caleb said he often watched film alone last season. No instruction, no guidance from the coaches. That's what he was afraid of. Now, I do think it all worked out. If you could pick a coach to have in year two, you'd want Ben, Ben, Johnson. They've spent money on the offensive line. And by the way, we said this last year, it's better this year. They have in the NFL top six or seven running back tight end wide

receiver talent. They have really good talent. So it's worked out. And now it's on Caleb. And I'm sure everybody will deny it. Ben Johnson's on our show later. And I don't think it's a big deal now because he's got, it took a year, but he got the right people. I mean, if you're a young quarterback, Ben Johnson, Drew Dalman, Joe Tunney, DJ Moore, two good tight ends in a division without a great defense. I think it all worked out for him. But this just goes back to the story that I had reported based on my sources at the time in Los Angeles near USC said, yeah, he was worried about it.

And I defended him if he didn't want to be a bad guy. But if you looked at the Chicago Bears, I think this is true. I don't think they've ever had a quarterback throw for over 4,000 yards. That is virtually impossible. That's driving through a car wash and not getting the car wet. How in the NFL can you not eventually have a 4,000-yard quarterback? And a lot of it's because the brand of the Bears has always been defense. And, I mean, they still celebrate the 85 Bears.

I always gave Andy Reed credit when he was in Philadelphia. Andy Reed in Philadelphia is a tough working class, tough town. They love a run game and a defense. And Andy Reid on third and two started passing. And I was like, who is this guy in Philadelphia who has turned third and two and third and three into a passing down? And I don't even love Donovan McNabb. Andy Reid really changed the way we looked at third and three in this league. And until he got Mahomes, he couldn't get the trophy.

But Andy Reid was the first guy that, like, he had. had to change Philadelphia's brand from tough in your face to we're going to do a little clever and finesse on third down right like that that was not easy i think ben Johnson is going to do an andy read i think he's going to take this defensive brand in this tough guy town and he's going to say no we're going to be fun we'll be a little finesse we'll run and i think he's on our show today i think they'll be great but my point is this story is out there and i don't think it's controversial now because in the end, it all worked out. And no reasonable, I mean, listen, John Elway didn't want to go to the Colts.

And Eli Manning, his family, did not want him to go to the Chargers. And in both instances, they were right. And if Caleb Williams would have forced the issue to go to Minnesota or somewhere else, I'd argue, I'd do it too. Every one of us comes out of college, the harder we work, the more options. In pro-spect, I've defended athletes on this forever. whatever. In pro sports, the harder you work, the lousier franchise you go to. And until recently, wherever you landed, you were stuck. Now, it's just recently that Baker Mayfield, Sam Darnold, and Gino Smith have been able to get a third team or a fourth team and kind of restart their career.

Before that, it was like we always used Drew Breeze as the exception. Starts bad, team moves off him, and he ends up being a Hall of Famer. But it used to be wherever you ended up as an NFL quarterback, because there was only so many good offensive coaches in the league. Now there's this breadth, there's this layering of tremendous young offensive coaches sprinkled all throughout the NFL so a quarterback can have a bad opening spot. And that is second or his third coach. I mean, Sam Donald got Kevin O'Connell.

Okay, all right, it's going to work. Or Gino Smith gets a coordinator he likes. Oh, it's going to work. Baker Mayfield gets Liam Cohen and Sean McVeigh. Oh, this is going to work instead of Freddie Kitchens. So now, quarterbacks, if their first landing spots a mess, there's a greater chance with all the excellent offensive coaching to turn your career around. But most of my life, until the last five or six or seven years, you were stuck.

It was over. And I'll defend Caleb forever. We talked about this. Chicago's history is they don't get quarterback right. They do a lot of things well. That's not one of them. So Albert Breer is joining us and he's joining us live. Yeah, that's interesting.

Staff just pointed this out. Chicago produced a Pope before they produced a 4,000-yard pastor. Yeah. By the way, Albert, just some thoughts on, I don't think it's a big deal today because I think it all worked out for him. But what did you make of the story?

I mean, Seth's an excellent reporter, so obviously, you know, I think getting it dug out, first of all, great job by him. You know, my primary thought is this is a lot of the stuff that we were hearing over the couple of years that led into Caleb going into the draft, right? Like that they were thinking outside the box. He and his dad, his dad's a very smart and accomplished businessman and, you know, taught his son to think differently. And the reality is, like, this is something that all teams were looking into. And anybody that was going to be in a position to draft him was concerned about

this. Like, is he going to want to come play for us? And so I think, like, those thoughts on Chicago are the manifestation of what a lot of people were talking about across the NFL in the couple of years that led into Caleb becoming a pro. So you can understand his concern, certainly. you know, I think this is something that more and more athletes think about. And, you know, it's something we heard about with Chador a lot, you know, going into his draft year was, would you rather go to an ideal situation or just get drafted as high as possible? And I think more and more athletes are starting to look at the bigger picture of this, especially with the explosion of second contracts, what those are worth now, you know, and the

quarterbacks are into the 60s now. You know, a lot of times, you know, I think these. guys were able to take a bigger picture view of it. The bigger picture view of it would show that going to the right place is absolutely more important than the game drafted as high as you can. Yeah. And I think I remember talking with somebody in the NFL and they said, I was a big Bo Nix fan. He said, Bo boy.

And he knew he was a listener. He said, I know how much you love Bo Nix. He's like, perfect coach. Sean P. Because remember, Jaden Daniels, defensive head coach, Caleb Williams, defensive head coach. Caleb Williams defensive head coach, Drake May defensive head coach, and there's Bo Nix. He goes to Sean Payton. Well, what a shocker.

Now, Bo, Jaden Daniels got Cliff Kingsbury, but it does, I will defend these young kids. Where you land when you're walking into this league is huge. It's a great point, too. And I think, like, I was saying this to somebody yesterday, like, I think too often we undersell the importance of environment. We undersell, like, how a guy's success is tied to where he lands. We've seen it over and over and over again. In a lot of cases, like, you know, when you have these private conversations with people that are involved with the young quarterbacks,

situations like Chicago last year where, you know, maybe the head coach got a stay of execution. And if you're looking forward, a guy could be going through a coaching change after just one year in the NFL. That's something that these guys are looking to avoid for sure. So, you know, I think, you know, you can look over the course, the history of the NFL. how environment can swing things one way or another. You brought up Baker-Mayfield, what a great example. That is, I mean, look at Jared Goff, right? Like, he goes to the Rams with the first pick in the 2016 draft.

They're back in L.A. Jeff Fisher gets the stay of execution because they had him in place to be the coach that was going to usher them to Los Angeles, and he couldn't have had a worse rookie year in L.A. And I think a lot of people gave up on him. And then Sean McVeigh steps in in year two, and now 10 years later, here we are. He's still playing at a really high level.

So I think too often we look at, I just think too often we don't account for the importance of environment and a young quarterback's performance. I've seen there are very few cases, Colin. I don't know how many you can come up with. How many guys, and I'm not talking about a guy 30 or 35, how many guys at 22, 23, 24 years old at that position are overcoming bad environments?

I mean, maybe the only one, I can think of as Andrew Luck. Other than that, it's really hard to find examples. That is literally it. Andrew Luck, who won 11 games with a moat outside of a good corner. I think a decent kicker. They didn't have much to work with. Okay, so, you know, I said a couple things jumped out to me in the schedule,

but when Albert Breer looked at it, what did you think the league was prioritizing when you looked at the schedule? You know, it's funny. I talked to Ani Bose, who's the VP of Broadcasting last night, And he kind of took me through the openers of the last few years, right? So two years ago, they took a chance in the Lions, rolling the dice there, and it wound up working out for him. Then last year, they went the other way, and they put Baltimore and Kansas City in that slot as a rematch of the AFC title game. And they really felt like that worked.

And then they looked at this year's schedule, and they saw some of the divisional matchups. The NFC East is playing the NFC North. The NFC North is playing the AFC North. And they saw this just deep inventory of games. and the idea this year was we are going to go big in as many big slots as possible. In other words, they weren't going to use the big slot to elevate a young rising team the way that they did two years ago with the Lions. They were going to use the teams to amplify the slot.

And so I think that's why you see Eagles Cowboys there in that kickoff game, right? Like they could have used that slot maybe to amplify the Bears. No, no, no. They're going to put the Cowboys in that slot against the Eagles. oh, that's going to do a huge number. They're going to use the teams in that slot to amplify the stage that they've created there. Same thing on Thanksgiving, right? That 4 p.m. window is huge for the networks on Thanksgiving.

One of the most viewed windows, if not the most viewed window of the entire regular season, they make it Cowboys Chiefs. So that was the whole idea. That was the overlying thing, was like, they had this deep schedule because of the division matchups, and they took advantage of it by trying to go big in the biggest slots. Yeah, the, you know, I look up and down, I will say this. The San Francisco 49er schedule, if you take out Matt Stafford twice and C.J. Stroud, it is the weakest schedule I've ever seen. They don't play a single team off a buy.

It is just a, now there's J. Mack made the point that they have a rigorous road schedule, Rams at Tampa at Houston over a month's stretch. you look at this it's a lot of travel but my takeaway is I want to sign Brock Purdy before this season because he could have locked 12 wins on this thing

wow yeah I'm like looking at it right now and you have it here in front of me and thank you for putting it up for me but I mean it's really easy to see them you know going to Los Angeles in week five at 4 and oh right and I think so much of it with a lot of these teams is sort of the spot that you're in, right?

Like, are you a team that's established that's bringing a lot of veterans back, or are you going to be breaking in new players in key spots? If you're a team that's breaking in new players in some key spots, then this is the sort of schedule you want, right? Like, build some momentum, get some confidence, and then by the time you get to the bigger games, you're ready to roll.

And that just so happens to be the position the Niners are in right now. With all the guys, they offloaded it in the offseason, bringing in guys to play key roles their first round pick. McKell Williams is obviously going to be in a really big spot. Their offensive line is going to have to come together. Christian McCaffrey is going to be working his way back. The receiver group is reconfigured with Debo Samuel out the door.

All of that now, they've got like a month to bring all of that together. And as well coach as that team is, especially with Robert Sala coming back, I don't know, man. I look at this and I'm with you. I think this is a double-digit-win team easy. Finally, I've given up guessing what Aaron Rogers is going to do. I did say if you're a Steeler fan and you could pick a year to be bad, it's a pretty tasty quarterback draft next year and you don't have one.

If Aaron doesn't sign with you, it's the worst quarterback room in the league. Hands down, it's as bad as the cowboy running back room last year. My take is Aaron is just contrarian to a point that he gets satisfaction out of being contrarian. I wouldn't be shocked if he retired. If I said, where is he going to be in three weeks? I'll give him a big long tarmac. Where do you think he is? Retirement, Pittsburgh, what?

I think Pittsburgh's where he winds up. I don't know if it's going to be in three weeks, though. And I think I said this to you last week, Colin. I would take the personal issue that he's been dealing with, take that at face value and respect it. And like, that's something that's there for him. here's part of, I think, the logic for the Steelers, right? Let's just say to just satisfy everybody, you do a contract the first week of April. Aaron Rogers is on the roster.

Then you say to everybody, look, like Aaron's going to be taking care of a few things over the next couple of months. Let's just, you know, cool our jets on this. He'll be here when he can be here. What do you think that's going to look like for the Steelers? What do you think that's going to look like for Aaron Rogers? You're going to get to the start of the offseason program. Where's Aaron? Where's Aaron? Where's Aaron? Start OTA, same thing.

Start a minicamp, same thing. So instead of doing that now, you have Aaron Rogers out there. You know, you're still communicating with him. There's a respectful relationship. He's taking care of his personal situation. And the other players, the coaches, Aaron himself, they don't have to hear that. Like, where's Aaron? Where's Aaron? Where's Aaron?

At least not in the volume they would if he was under contract. And then, you know, then, then whenever he's ready to go and be all in, he can be all in. I think that that's a piece of the logic here. I think that's a big piece of why you would do it this way. Now, that said, the flip side is you don't have him under contract. And if he does change his mind, then the Steelers, if you're the Steelers, you're kind of in a tough spot. So, you know, I think the likelihood, the overwhelming likelihood is still that he winds up playing for the Steelers. but I still would not rule out the idea he could retire,

and who knows what other opportunity could come up if there's an injury somewhere else. So there is some risk in doing it this way, but I think for everyone involved right now, it's probably the best way to handle it. Albert Breer Monday morning quarterback as Owens. I even shocked him when I showed him that Niners schedule. He couldn't believe.

It's a bakery. It's just cupcake after cupcake down the conveyor. It's really amazing. It's CJ Stroud, Matt Stafford twice, and I'm dead serious. Thank you for the graphic, by the way. It's hard when you got 32 of them rattling around in your head. So that graphic really helps.

All right. Thanks, buddy. Albert Breer. All right, thanks, going. Jemak, it does make you think, though, does it not if you're San Francisco? I mean, Brock Purdy next year is like, if he's coming off a 13-win season, you have no leverage with Brock Purdy. Because that means also if he wins 13 games, you don't have a draft pick.

You're down at the bottom of the first round. So, like, if I'm San Francisco, he's coming off a losing season, I may be able to get him to 48. You're not getting him anywhere near that off that schedule in a division crown. You are trapped. You can have a bad first round pick. You have an old offensive line. You're smiling about this.

I'm John Lynch. I'm like, yeah, let's get this thing wrapped up, can we? Look at that schedule. Kyle, why are you being so negative with the Niners? I don't get it. You really become a Niners hater. Are you, like, just very anti-Brock party? I don't get it personally.

I need to know. Well, I think they really had a lot of things they had to solve, secondary linebacker O-line, and they went all in on solving the defensive line, which I think the first couple of picks I like, but I just think they have holes in the roster, and I think what's happening in the NFL, and you're seeing it now in the NBA, the construct of the overall roster, and taking a smaller than you'd like, marginally athletic guy with a bad O line is trouble. Sean Payton, the first thing he did in Denver when he had Bo Necks, fix the O line. Detroit, the front office,

Gough, fix the O-line. I think that, I think if you look at Sean McVeigh, the only time he's lacked success, the O-lines off. I think, and this is not a shot at Brock Purdy, Josh Allen is one-of-one. Bad O-Lines, he'll get you to win playoff games. Lamar Jackson probably fits into that.

I've seen Patrick Mahomes twice in Super Bowl's get destroyed. For one reason, bad O-Lines. I do not like the Niners are a Trent Williams injury. That's true. From having a bottom 10-0 line. Yeah, just like the Chiefs were a left tackle issue away from getting blasted in the Super Bowl twice. I mean, again, I get it. Josh Allen and Justin Herbert are unicorns.

You can't find those everywhere. But Brock Purdy has more playoff wins than Lamar Jackson. Okay? I don't want to hear it the roster. Brock Purdy has more playoff comebacks in his short career than Lamar Jackson does. Like, you've got to get off this. He's small. He was a seventh round pick.

It just, it... All right, I'll stand down. I know it's your shtick, and you've gone to, but I got some Niners fans. It's not a shit. Why does he hate Brock Birdie? One in six against playoff teams with Kyle Shanahan

in kind of an average division last year. Everybody was heard. Come on. You know, Lamar never has those years. Josh never has those years. He just fails in the playoffs. One more herd? The herd streams 24 hours a day,

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Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slic Life 12 and the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. New Bearhead coach Ben Johnson stopped by later. It's interesting on a day the story broke. So Seth Wickersham works for ESPN. He's a great author, great journalist, writing a book, author of American Kings, a biography of the quarterback.

And he talked before the draft. So Seth has had this for a while. This is sort of what I wrote. It's not sort of. This is what I had talked about before the draft, that his dad wasn't in love with the idea of his son wanting to play for the bears. The dad really drove it. And so his son is like, well, yeah, I'd rather play for Kevin O'Connell,

but his son eventually said, I don't want to go out publicly. This is exactly what I was told by a source very close to Caleb Williams. And when I reported this, Chicago media didn't want to hear it. But I'll just read you this. Chicago is a place quarterbacks go to die, said Caleb's dad, Carl Williams. told Seth Wickersham, I don't want my son playing for the Bears. Williams told several agents last year.

May have been where I heard it. The rookie cap is just unconstitutional. So Ryan Poles, who's still the Bears GM, told Caleb's dad, we're drafted him regardless, and that left one option for Caleb Williams to publicly go out a little bit like John Elway had done with the Baltimore Colts in the 80s and just ripped the franchise and say, I don't want to play.

And Caleb came out and said, I'm going to do it. I can turn this puppy around. I've got confidence in myself. But Caleb worried about the city, the franchise's history. He worried about Shane Waldron and their offense. Caleb's a bright kid. He'd done his homework. He knew what he was getting into.

I have no problem with any of it. The bears aren't going to comment on this stuff because all those guys, you know, the coaching staff is gone. Shade Waldron's gone. But this is exactly what I was told. There was agents talking and confidence to Caleb. and the dad, a businessman, you know, kind of spearheaded it. It's like, I don't want my son playing for the Bears.

It's a mess. And it was. And everything you worried about happened. So I think sometimes, you know, you need people like Seth Wickersham out there to tell you the stories of sports. There's a lot of phone calls being made. And John Elway just said, I'm not doing it. And the Manning family said, no, we're not doing the Chargers. and Caleb didn't want to go there.

And he had confidence in himself, but he had every right to be worried about Iber Flus, who was over his skis, Shane Waldron, who didn't work, and the history of the franchise. All of those were totally legitimate concerns. I don't have a problem with any of them. And I've said until recently,

I think there's so much good offensive coaching in the league that if you go to a team and it's really bad, Jared Goffson example, the coaching staff was a mess, Deshaun McVey, it all worked out. I think Sam Darnold, Gino Smith, and Baker, Mayfield. Eventually, they got the right coaches, the right staff, the right mentor, the right Kingmaker, and it all worked out.

It didn't feel like it used to work that way. If you got a bad opening spot, part of the reason that you can land with a bad staff, which is what Caleb Williams did last year, now to a good staff, is because there's so much money to the ownership groups now in the NFL, they'll blow out bad coaches much sooner than they used to. I mean, $40 million to blow out a head coaching contract and a coordinator contract. It's a rounding air for these owners now. So that's the benefit is if the coach is a stinker, all right, let's just blow out the staff. So Caleb's going to be fine.

I think this thing's built for him to win. His coach is on next hour. But this was all true. This is exactly what I heard. And I think all the concerns by Caleb Williams' father were legitimate. J-Mack with the news. No, no, no, no. Turn on the news.

This is the herd line news. All right, NFL schedule released was last night, and Fox has an amazing lineup, led by Eagles at Chiefs in week two, rematch from the Super Bowl when the Chiefs got their teeth kicked in. Both teams will be coming off playing early the prior week. Eagles play on the Thursday before the week two matchup on Fox. Chiefs play on Friday, but in Brazil.

So technically the Eagles will probably get. an extra travel day. I like the Eagles in that game. But then again, I don't like the Chiefs next year at all. I know that's, oh, like, how can you say this about they have Andy Reed and Mahomes? Colin, I liked your opening rant, knocking the Chiefs down a peg. I don't think reality has set in for those folks yet. And we could talk about Taylor Swift in the schedule.

But this Fox matchup in week two is enormous and we'll go a long way because we know the Chargers have fared well against the Chiefs. The Chargers somehow win in Sao Paulo, and the Chiefs are staring at 0-2 against a defending champs. That's a humongous matchup on Fox in week two. Well, and also, offensive lines are the one unit that it just takes time. Bears' offensive line, I think, is going to be eventually great, but it'll probably be week 12, 13, 14, when they get Dolman and Joe Tuny and the rookie from Boston College. It just takes time. Kansas City, week two, I mean, in week one, Kansas City's got Khalil. Mac. In week two, it's the Eagles. And in week three, by the way, the Giants now with

Abdul Carter, Dibb it on the other side, that's not a great team. It's an elite pass rush. So the Chargers and the Ravens Pass Rush. Jacks have a good defensive front. Aidan Hutchison comes back. Then it's Max Crosby. So my take is offensive lines, and by the way, older offensive linemen no longer play in the preseason. The coaches don't. Now, Andy Reid will play some guys. Bruce Arrino, Bruce Ariens, do a little bit of that where he would play some of his older guys in the preseason. McVeigh won't. A lot of the young coaches won't. But their offensive line, they got to solve that thing, and they got either elite pass rushers or great pass rushes in their first six or seven weeks.

Yeah, and just real quick on the Chiefs before we get back to Fox. So that game against the Giants in week three, you see it on the screen? That is the ultimate sandwich spot, Colin. You face the defending chance who destroyed you in February. And oh, by the way, week four, your nemesis in the playoffs, who you love to face, Lamar and the Ravens. So they can overlook the Giants in that spot. And as you said, that Giants pass rush is nasty. I'm just telling you, that schedule is tough, Colin. Now, could we get the Fox games on the screen real quick?

Because in week three, there is a matchup. Cowboys at Bears on Fox. I'm sure you'll be going to that game, obviously. Maybe your boy, maybe I'll join you at that one. I haven't been to a Bears game ever. But that is a great matchup. Fox's got a lot of good games this season, as is to be expected, right? Well, what's interesting is,

look at who Dallas is playing in a lot of their matchups. High-powered young athletic quarterbacks. The first Fox game, oh, it's Caleb Williams with Ben Johnson. The next Fox game, Jaden Daniels with Cliff Kingsbury. The next Fox game, oh, it's Jalen Hertz, Sequin Barkley. Look at those cowboy games. And then at the end of the year, you know, they get the Giants. the first three Fox Cowboy games, you better drop 30 points.

You are facing clever coaches, athletic quarterbacks with DAC coming off a second lower body injury. So those Dallas matchups, you better get your offensive line fixed in Dallas. You are facing, you could have three of the highest scoring NFL teams in your first three Fox games. Yeah, and a quick note on the Eagles, I know they won the Super Bowl and they returned almost everybody on offense. I do want to point out their offensive quarter. coordinator situation. If you start, you guys start reading about that. It's too early for us to drill down. But there's something going on there. And look at their schedule is very difficult, Colin. They got to visit the chiefs and visit the bills. It's one of the tougher schedules.

I'm not saying a major pullback, but all of a sudden, I think Washington has a chance at that division. I'm just putting that out there. It's a lot will change. All right. Next up, Anthony Edwards and the Timberwolves, they're going to the conference finals again. Minnesota lost last year, 4-1 to Lucca and company. Rudy Gobert was asked after last night's game about if the team was satisfied and Anthony Edwards jumped in. Check this out. With all of the ups and downs that you guys went through that you stayed together and you're right back where you were last year. There's no satisfaction. We just got here. We haven't done anything yet, so no. He's not satisfied. That's exactly how it feels. You know, it's, it feels good to get to that step, but it's, stomach is not full. Not at all.

I think the story of this team has been the ascension of Ant, but I also think it has been the reboot of Julius Randall. He was dominant last night. And we talked about this yesterday. You got to give Julius Randall credit because he has been coachable. But you got to give Chris Finch and his staff credit because early in the year, Randall was an awkward fit. End of the year he's perfect.

So Julius Randall has, and we've talked about this. We always do he's a good player out of Kentucky when he came to the Lakers. But when he came into the league, Julius Randall felt like the league was changing and his game didn't match it. Now you watch him and I'm like, oh, if the NBA is going to allow this physicality in the postseason, well, Randall's always been a bully. He is, like the Knicks. Julius Randall is built for this kind of officiating. He is benefiting greatly.

Now he can hit threes as well. So it's a weird roster that shouldn't work as well as it does. young, old, go bear, Conley, Randall, I think the staff's done a great job. Real quick, two things on Anthony Edwards. I know you love him face of the league. So Zach found this youngest players to score 1,000 points in NBA history. Colin, Anthony Edwards is on the list. And he's in some hallowed company here.

Kobe Bryant, Tony Parker, who's a Hall of Famer, Tatum, of course, LeBron, KD, and Anthony Edwards. Now, I bring that up, Colin. I've been percolating this hot take for a little bit on Anthony Edwards. I know you've kind of owned the face of the league corner. How about this one? In the years before Anthony Edwards got to Minnesota, they had two playoff series wins. Kevin Garnett was the greatest player in franchise history.

I'm ready to go on record and say Anthony Edwards, who's already accomplished more with the Timberwolves as a team than KG, is now the greatest player in Minnesota Timberwolves franchise history. This kid is young and a superstar. Colin, if they make the finals, if they beat O KC, we're looking at a historic run for Anthony Edwards. And I think he's overtaken KG and Minnesota to the world for already. And the other thing is, I mean, you can make the argument that Anthony Edwards has a better coaching staff. And you can also make this argument, like a Michael Jordan or a Kobe Bryant.

As a wing player, he handles the ball more. So the advantage is, now you can get an occasional Kevin Durant. or Wemby, who is a big that can handle the ball, or Janus. But the advantage he has over Garnett is that you've got the ball in his hands all the time. And more and more. And also, also, Kevin Garnett wasn't shooting three. So what Ant gives you, he provides you, he has the ball in his hands more. He's a better long-range shooter in the analytic world.

So there's no question he should be over time a better score. Garnett is one of the great high school players of all time. I think he's from Chicago. Yep. One of the great high school players, nobody disputes what Kevin's done. but there is an advantage to be an MJ Kobe your aunt and you got the ball in your hands all the time. Do you see, again, small thing,

Anthony Edwards, the way he had his hat in that interview jumping in to steal a question from Rudy Gobert, why is Gobert dressed like a Bond villain? I don't get that. But Anthony Edwards is basically taking over. He's the man right now. And I think I like Minnesota over O.K.C., but we'll get there.

Final story, Colin, is, you know, the Miami Heat have been quiet for a couple years down. However, two big names on the NBA market this summer, Janice and Kevin Durant. And according to a report out of Miami, that he are interested in making a move on one or both players, Kevin Garant is the guy to keep an eye on. His odds to land in Miami are the fourth best. This would stun me if Kevin Durant heads to Miami. I don't think they're close, but going to the east is smart.

Yeah, going to the east with Janus potentially moving west. I also think, I don't think they have the ammo to get Janus. I don't think they have Oklahoma City's war chest or Houston. So if you're Miami, it's how can we get better when we have limited resources? I mean, they just, and Pat Riley's brilliant, but they just don't have the ammo that Sam Presti has in Oklahoma City. Now, if I'm Oklahoma City, I'm not sure I'm going to go with Janus. I think Chet Holmgren is a cheaper. ascending version of Janus.

He's not as good as Janus, but he'll be an excellent. By next year, he'll be a great two. Jalen Williams now is a two, probably drops to a three Swiss Army knife. But I do think the West is getting better. The East will get weaker. Boston won't be nearly as good next year. I think over the course of a season without Tatum, they won't have Porzingis, Horford, Drew Holiday.

Boston's going to make a lot of moves. I think Durant to Miami feels like it is a 26 point a game. catch-and-shoot guy without having to give up all your draft picks for the future. I just don't know what's the seal. Can they make the finals with Bam out of bio and Kevin Durant? No. But they can win a playoffs soon. Yeah, so why would you, if I'm KD, I would send me to the Rockets?

Kevin Durant on the Rockets without losing Amman Thompson. Like, that's interesting. I think KD is going to be fascinating, Colin. His stock to me is a little down. Don't tell him I said that, of course, because he's very sensitive. Yeah. Jay Mack with the news. Well, that's the news.

And thanks for stopping by. The Herd Lye News. A couple years ago, a couple years ago, I made a prediction. I said, and Lamar Jackson is going to eventually replace Joe Flacco in Baltimore. I said, I'm going to pick Week 11. And we got really lucky. It was Week 11. So I think Shadoor Sanders is eventually this year going to be the starting quarterback for the Cleveland Browns.

And I'll give you the schedule and I'll tell you when I think he's going to start next. Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays in noon Eastern 9 a.m. Pacific. on Fox Sports Radio, FS1, and the IHeart Radio app. Hey, Steve Kavino. And I'm Rich Davis. And together we're Kavino and Rich on Fox Sports Radio. You can catch us weekdays from 5 to 7 p.m. Eastern, 2 to 4 Pacific on Fox Sports Radio, and of course the IHart Radio app. Why should you listen to Kavino and Rich?

We talk about everything, life, sports, relationships, what's going on in the world? We have a lot of fun talking about the stories behind the stories in the world of sports and pop culture. Stories that, well, other shows don't seem to have the time. to discuss. And the fact that we've been friends for the last 20 years and still work together, I mean, that says something, right? So check us out. We like to get you involved too. Take your phone calls, chop

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That's Cabino and Rich. Hey, it's us, the Jonas Brothers. And guess what? We have some big news. What's the news, new? Huge news. We created our own podcast called Hey Jonas. We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to it. We're the first people to do podcasts. Pretty, yeah, pretty wide range of podcasts throughout there.

But this one's extra special. So how do we actually come up with a name Hey Jonas, guys? I honestly don't remember. I think it was on a call about what we should call it. And, well, we were thinking I'm originally calling it one of the early names of our band before Jonas Brothers. This is how you guys remember it going down? Yes. I have a very different memory of this.

We were talking about a thing, a bit for the podcast, where people could call in and say, hey, Jonas. And then I wrote down on my little notepad, Hey Jonas, and offered it up as a potential title for the podcast. But thanks for remembering that, guys. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel, help an

a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves, their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear.

The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaders to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context, and ask the questions everybody wants answered. Sports Slice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to Sports Slice on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Sliced Life 12 in the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Jacob Kingston grew up in an isolated polygamous sect. We were God's chosen kingdom on earth.

He felt destined for greatness. So when a swaggering Armenian businessman catapults Jacob into an extraordinary world, he doesn't look back. Ferraris and Lamborghinis, private jets, meeting the president of Turkey. I'm Michelle McPhee, and this is one of the most shocking criminal conspiracies I've ever come across. When Jacob met Levin this went to a billion dollar fraud. But with two kings from entirely different worlds, just how long can their empire survive? The largest tax investigation in American history. You need to tell me what you know.

Is somebody coming after me? Jacob told Levan, you're ruining my life. Listen to Kingdom of Fraud on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Sunday, the NASCAR Cup series, All-Star Race takes center stage at the legendary North Wilkesboro track. It all begins with the open races at 5 Eastern. Then the best of the best, battle for the crown at 8 all Sunday on FS1. So if you look at strength of schedule, the Cleveland Browns have the second hardest schedule. So this draft, they moved down to go get a second first round pit.

So it's a very, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's always been a problem with Cleveland, the owner. So this team's not going to win many games. They didn't love the quarterbacks in this class. So they moved down to get a second pick. They would like to get arch manning. The mannings have a history with jimmy haslam, Tennessee guys. So, um, Cleveland's not going to win a lot of games. So the question is, Jimmy haslam, many believe, forced Andrew Barry and Stefanski to draft shader Sanders. They drafted Dylan Gabriel probably a round or two early, hoping to get out of the Shadur sweepstakes. So the question is, at some point, Haslam's going to come down and say, play Shador Sanders. Because this is not a great team. So my guess is Joe Flacco wins the starting job. He's the most NFL ready to play. Joe can win a game or two. And the first four weeks, the staff is going to tell him, Shador's not ready, Shadur's not ready.

My guess is they go 0 and 4. Maybe they go 1 in 3. Haslam's going to come down on Sunday, October 5th. And he says, I want Shadur to play against Minnesota. And the staff's going to say, we're in London. It's rough. Just give us one more week. We don't want Shadur having to go overseas.

It's a big ask. And so they stave off the owner for a week. Flacco loses that game. I believe Shadur is. start Sunday, October 12th. If Flacco wins that game, he'll get another start October 12th against Pittsburgh, and he'll win that game. I do think he'll lose to Miami in New England. They'll have a buy, and then Shadour, the staff won't be able to hold it off any longer. We'll play Sunday, November 9th at the Jets. By the way, some tough teams down the stretch for Shadour. But I believe, if you

believe, and many do that the owner, he's the one that wanted Mansell. He's the one that wanted Mansell. he's the one that did Deshaun Watson. He's the one that wanted Baker Mayfield. This is an ownership group that likes headlines at quarterbacks. Shadoor's a headline. Dylan Gabriel's not. I mean, look, we're paying attention to the Cleveland Browns. Like Jerry Jones, they love their team, their logo, they love everything on TV.

So my take is Sunday, October 5th in London, after they start 0 and 4, 1 and 3, the owner's going to say, that's what I want. And the staff's going to say, give us one more week. let's not start him in London. If Flacco loses that game, my guess is, Shadour starts October 12th against the Steelers. That's a rough defense, but it's a winnable game. If Flacco wins that game,

and I don't think Minnesota is going to be very good. I think letting Sam Darnold go, they're going to be less of a team at quarterback. I think Seattle's going to benefit. You know, I love Darnold. Minnesota's going to pull back significantly with J.J. McCarthy. But if Flacco does beat Minnesota, I think he would also beat Pittsburgh,

who could have the worst quarterback room in the league. And then he'd lose the next two, by week, let's go with a kid. So I'm going to put it out there. I got lucky years ago. I predicted week 11, Joe Flacco, isn't that ironic? Joe Flacco would get seated behind Lamar Jackson. I think it'll be either Sunday, October 12th or Sunday, November 9th. Because the Brown schedule is brutal.

By any account, giants, and again, a lot of it's brutal because they're not very good. A lot of the Giants' problems are they're not very good. It's not like they played teams with 75% winning percentage. The hardest schedule in the league, like the Giants and the Browns, played teams with a winning percentage last year of like 54%. So it just depends on how good your quarter. Your schedule feels a lot weaker, mostly, if you have a really good quarterback. And the Browns don't, and the New York Giants don't.

J-MAC, you're looking under right now. If you had to guess, Jay Mack, Shadour starting. Um, 2000, 26 with another team. No, I'm just kidding. I don't see it.

I'm not seeing what you're seeing. I am, however, seeing love for Dylan Gabriel, Oregon's finest quarterback. They love him. Stefanski loves him. I think he's going to get all the opportunities.

And frankly, Stefanski's in a great spot, Colin. Because if the owner keeps pushing Shador on him and you don't want him, I'm going to do my thing. I'm going to do what I want to do. And then when Haslam fires him for not playing Shador, Stafansky could come out and say, hey, man, I was coach of the year. I wanted Gabriel.

He's a better fit for what we want to do. I didn't want Shador. Blame it on the owner. And Stafansky comes out looking clean. I would go under one and a half starts for Shadour Sanders this season. Wow. You're forgetting about the immortal Kenny Pickett, my friend. Bears coach, Ben Johnson, going to be stopping by next hour.

A lot of fun today. Schedule, release. Warriors are done. T-wolves moving on. Nuggets O'KC tonight. It's the hurt. Hey guys, it's us. The Jonas Brothers.

I'm Joe. I'm Kevin. And I'm Nick. And guess what? We created our own podcast called, Hey Jonas. We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to it.

We're the first people to do podcasts. We get to ask other people questions because we're sick and tired of being asked questions. Well, sick and tired is a strong way to put it. But, you know, tired and sick. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL late-night comedy guy, not quite.

Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and Friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple

podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Winning on Clay is an art. The rallies are relentless. And at the French Open, only the toughest survive. I'd know. I competed there for decades. Join me, Renee Stubbs, on the Renee Stubbs' tennis podcast for no-nonsense breakdowns of the biggest matches, the toughest players, and the moments that define

Roland Garris. She's an outsider to win the French name. And she likes Clay. Listen, Lina Rabakina is arguably the best player in the world right now. And I actually can win on any surface. Listen to the Renee Stubbs tennis podcast on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHeart Women's Sports. I'm Michelle McPhee, and I've been unraveling the strangest criminal alliance I've ever reported on.

A Mormon polygamist and an Armenian businessman. Multi-million dollar house, Ferraris and Lamborghinis, private jets, a billion dollar fraud. But how long can this alliance last? Tell me what you know. Is somebody coming after me? Listen to Kingdom of Fraud on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed human.