The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Hour 2 - Don't sleep on the Pacers

Episode Date: May 20, 2025

Nobody thought Jalen Brunson would turn out to be this good Previewing the Easter Conference Finals and why people shouldn't take the Pacers lightly Caitlin Clark continues to bring huge ratings to the WNBAGuest: Ric Bucher See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human. Hey guys, it's us. The Jonas Brothers. I'm Joe. I'm Kevin. And I'm Nick. And guess what? We created our own podcast called, Hey Jonas.

We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to it. We're the first people to do podcasts. We get to ask other people questions because we're sick and tired of being asked questions. Well, sick and tired is a strong way to put it. But, you know, tired and sick. Tired and sick.

Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you. you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy. Not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and Friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier.

This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the ice. Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind, and nobody's

telling you exactly what happened. That's where SportsSlice comes in. I'm Timbo, and every episode, we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the biggest moments in sports and giving you the real story behind the headline. And we're going straight to the source, the athletes themselves, their locker room stories, their reactions in the moment, and the stuff nobody gets to hear. Listen to Sports Slice on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slicalife-Life 12 in the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. I'm Michelle McPhee, and I've been unraveling the strangest criminal alliance I've ever reported on. A Mormon polygamist and an Armenian businessman.

Multi-million dollar house, Ferraris and Lamborghinis, private jets, a billion dollar fraud. But how long can this alliance last? Tell me what you know. Is somebody coming after me? Listen to Kingdom of Fraud on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Thanks for listening to The Heard podcast. Be sure to catch us live every weekday on Fox Sports Radio in noon to 3 Eastern, 9 a.m. to noon Pacific. Find your local station for the herd at Fox SportsRedio.com or stream us live every day on the IHeart

radio app by searching Fox Sports Radio or FSR. You're listening to Fox Sports Radio. Here we go. It's our number two. We are live. This is the herd. The Western Conference Final. Feels like the Eastern Conference Final should start tonight,

but it's the Western Conference Final starting tonight, Jay Mack. You know, I'm going to get Rick Buechard in a couple of minutes, but it's interesting that I was listening to during the break. I was listening to a soundbite from Jay Wright, who's a CBS broadcaster, who's the great coach at Villanova forever. And when I got a job in Vegas, he was, Tark was replaced by Roli Massimino and Jay Wright. He was the assistant.

So he struck a friendship. He's a great guy. But in his bite, he was saying, I had no idea Jaylen Brunson was going to be this good of an NBA player. So like when people project, you just don't know. And I've said they have totally different games. But Brunson is Steve Nash. I watched them in college, really good college player.

good, not superstars. Then they go to an NBA, and they've got, one's got Luca, one's got Dirk as the best player, they're the two. And then one goes to Phoenix, gets the perfect coach Mike Dan Coney, one goes to New York and gets a defensive coach, Tibbs,

and they totally pop. Nobody thought Nash was going to be a back-to-back MVP or he won two MVP's. Nobody thought that. And nobody thought Brunson, even if you thought he was a one, you didn't think he was like a one-one, like the great closer in the fourth.

and it just goes to show. If you give people opportunities, you give them the right fit, you give them the right guidance and the roster. Now, Brunson's also lucky because it's not the star-studded league now. The final four teams we have, their best players are all guards. So because of the CBA and all the multiple aprons, you can't stack the rosters. So guard play, high IQ, EQ, distribute the ball, Halliburton, Jalen Brunson, that. kind of, that really is what the league is trying to do right now. So sometimes the sand moves in your favor beneath your feet. So I just think it's really interesting. In fact, let's go to Rick

Buecker with that. He's joining us now live. Rick Buecker, as we get ready for the Western Conference Finals tonight, Rick, we were saying this is that I, I always thought Brunson was a soft one, probably a two. Yeah. His shot making against Detroit and Boston, and I'm like, well, you can't have stack rosters. Like those days are over. Do you view him now as a legitimate big-time one? Legitimate big-time one. Do I see him as a guy who could possibly win a championship as a guard?

That to me is the question because I've consistently said no. We've never seen a guy that size, that limited in athletic ability, be able to be the best player on a championship team. But as you noted, we're in different times right now, and there's going to be a guard-led team that is going to win a championship this year by default. And I think some of it is just because of the way that the game has changed, at least for what we're seeing right now. It reminds me of a conversation I had four or five years ago with Sam Presti, the GM of the Oklahoma City Thunder. And he felt then that because of the way the game was being played, that it was being played more up-tempo faster, that it was no longer going to be a star-driven league in terms of playing for a championship,

that depth and versatility was going to be the key to be a contender. And I think that's exactly what we're seeing. With all three teams, all four teams, including New York, the reason New York is where is where it is, is because Tibbs has come off of his, I'm only going to play five and a half guys. Having Mitchell Robinson in the rotation, Miles McBride getting regular minutes, all of that has expanded their rotation, and as a result, they've survived to this point. So I've had to amend my perspective as I have had to a couple of times over covering the league, where there's a big enough shift where you say, you know what, we've never seen this before,

but we may see it for the first time. So I actually think OKC is going to, they're kind of built to give Ant a little bit of trouble. They got length, they got versatility, they got a lot of guys, they have a lot of bodies. I think it's a seven game series. I'll take OKC, home court advantage. Minnesota didn't have as much rest,

has more rest than I. I don't think it matters with OKC's versatility. But I do think Ant has been a big star slayer. It can be Luca, it could be LeBron, it could be Steph. This is what he's done. Durant and Booker. I think OKC is kind of built to give Ant a little trouble. What say you?

I'd say that they're built to give him a lot of trouble. And his performance during the regular season is a reflection of that. He averaged five points below his average against OKC, only shot 36%. They've been, the OKC has been, without question, the number one defense in the post-season. in the postseason to this point. As you said, they have a lot of different bodies that they can throw at him, but they can also kind of confuse the floor. And that's where Ant traditionally has problems,

where he has to kind of figure out exactly what is the defense doing in these situations. It tends to make him tentative. So when I look at the combination of the two, along with the fact that I believe that OKC has had to play, the Denver Nuggets did them a big favor. They had to play consistently good to great basketball in order to get through that series. They've had to play playoff basketball.

I would argue that Minnesota is a bit delusional in terms of the level of basketball that they've played. They've had two gentlemen sweeps, and that might lead them to believe that they're playing great basketball. I haven't seen that, and I certainly haven't seen it consistently over the course of a game.

I think they've played hard maybe 38, 39 minutes out of every 48. And that's not going to cut it against Oklahoma City. From a talent perspective, I believe that Minnesota can go toe to toe, and I'm hoping that it'll be a seven-game series. But if OKC makes short work of Minnesota, I will not be surprised. So, you know, there's a lot of yonest discussion, and we don't know where he's going to go. but I said Denver feels like they're in danger of becoming the Bucks

where they have one great player and they get old and expensive really fast. And I said the other day, I said, I don't think the Warriors are. First of all, they've drafted two guys, pods and post, who can both play in that ecosystem. Butler and Curry's history is, and Dremont, they're generally good playoff performers. And Comingo was good enough without staff that there is a market for him. I'm not sure what it is, but if they can get a big that's reasonable, I don't think they're a championship team. I think Denver could be Milwaukee if they don't make moves.

Where are you on the Warriors and the Kaminga trade piece? Because we got, I mean, somebody said, oh, let's go get Brooke Lopez. I'm like, time out. We don't need another mid-30-year-old guy. That's not the answer. Right? And they may have to give up Kaminga. They may have to give up Moody and Kaminga, another young, you know, fairly,

productive guy. Where are you on the Warriors today going forward? I think they'll still be competitive. I think they'll be kind of where they've been, which is they're a playing team, fringe, grabbing that last playoff spot, but not necessarily, or by any means, quite honestly, being a playoff contender. They're not going to fall off the cliff the way we saw the Lakers with Kobe toward the end, because to your point, the supporting cast is a little bit better than that. And I just, don't think that Steph and Draymond are going to stick around that much longer. I think we're going to see a year or two of them being very competitive or as competitive as they've been,

and then it'll be time for the Warriors to turn the page and go in another direction. With Denver, I'm with you there in terms of if I'm looking at them, I clear the decks. I'm looking at, I've got Nikola Yokic and I am redoing the rest of that team, even if it means that I have to sort of take a step back for a year or even possibly two in terms of restoring my ability to play for a title. I want to go back to Indiana and the Knicks. Indiana plays fast. In fact, the last three years, fastest-paced team in the league. The Knicks, conversely last two years are the slowest-paced team. But again, I think the NBA, you know, the Knicks' slow pace benefited them against Boston, may have hurt them a little against Detroit because they kind of played into Detroit's hands.

hands, but what do you see as you, you know, juxtapose these two, fastest pace, slowest pace. Yeah. And I think the key to Indiana has been through the playoffs. They've controlled the pace of all the games they've played. Yes, they have. Where do you think it lands with the Knicks? Physicality and the ability to control the tempo is going to mean everything in that series. There's no doubt about it.

Indiana, I just believe that people are really sleeping on how good they are. They are legit. Andrew Nemhart, Aaron Neesmith, they just have a bunch of guys on the perimeter that most people don't know about who are legit players. And then Pascal Seacom, probably the most understated star that you can have. So it really is going to be a matter of matchups and pace. I have the Knicks coming out of that series, but I think that this is going to be a real dogfight. And again, this is what's kind of entertaining about these playoffs in general is I can't wait to see. these first game ones, much like some of the previous series.

It's like, I think I know where these teams are, but the styles are so different. I need to see who's able to impose their will on the other team to really have a feel for which way the series is going to go. So David Stern inherited the league from Larry O'Brien, and it didn't have Star Appeal. It wasn't dynamic. And so I understood he wanted collections of stars together. It was great for him. In fact, in fact, the Duncan dynasty hurt them.

Shaq and Kobe was great. The Bulls, the best team ever. The stacked Lakers or Celtics. But that's because he inherited a league that didn't have that. The 70s NBA was a collection of good players of mostly not playing together. Silver inherits the NBA off of David Stern's League, which is stacked rosters. So I've argued this is finally with a new CBA. This is Adams League.

This is exactly what he wants. Do you think it works? Because Stern knew the 70s didn't work with all the parody. Do you think this works going forward? Yeah, but it's a brand, we're in a totally different place. I think what David Stern did, what David Stern needed to do was he needed to get America to watch the NBA. And the way to. attract the mainstream audience in America was to have recognizable names and a recognizable team

that everybody was interested in watching. But while dynasties have worked for the NBA, parody has not over the last 20 or so years, the fact is that they've never worked better than they did with Michael Jordan and the Bulls. It's been diminishing returns as ever since. Still better than the parody years, but nonetheless, not quite as good. The zenith was with Michael and the Bulls. What Adam has inherited is a league that is looking at it

and saying, okay, we've gotten the most we can out of the American audience. Where are, and we're never gonna beat the NFL, where can we expand in a way? Where is our sweet spot? And it really is globally. And so parody works on that. If you're selling a product to an audience that by and large isn't necessarily going to be watching games,

and if they are, they're going to be streaming them, then you want an array of flavors. It's a little bit like having, they've been the convenience store, and they wanted everybody come into the convenience store when David Stern was running it. Now it's like we want to appeal to everybody for everything. we got to build target. We got to build our big box building and draw an audience that way

because that's our advantage over the other professional leagues in the United States. That's what Adam Silver is doing. So if I can sell a million OKC jerseys this year and I can sell a million Timberwolves jerseys next year and I can get that global audience to be buying into all the different teams that I have, I have a better chance of expanding my audience

than simply having everybody wanting to watch LeBron. I'm going to take Indiana in six, OKC in seven. Where are you on that? That's not a bad call. As I said at the very beginning, I'd like to see, I think OKC is coming out of the West. That's probably my prohibitive favorite. And I'm leaning New York,

but as I said, I would not be the least bit surprised if the Pacers pull off what I consider it upset. All right, Rick Buecker, as always, buddy, great seeing you. You got it. Yeah, I mean, not all dynasties work for the league. You know, the Tim Duncan,

Manu Genoblee, Tony Parker, Dynasty didn't work, and it wasn't really a market size. Duncan was sort of personalityless. Man who was off the bench. And it was just they weren't high draft picks. You know, Manu, I think, was second round. Tony Parker, ended the first.

And Duncan's nickname was the big fundamental. It doesn't, it doesn't, Tom Cruz or Denzel. He was the big fundamental. So I've said this. Alabama's dynasty, I didn't think helped college football. It made it too regional. You know, you're not going to get a dynasty in a small market in baseball. I think the NFL, it doesn't really matter. I say that. I do think the chiefs have a big enough brand that are in the middle of the country. I don't think Jacksonville as a dynasty would be great for the league. I don't. I think they're not as popular as the Buccaneers or the dolphins in their own state.

So I'm not even that popular in their own town. They can tarped off the upper deck and portions of it. So I do think in the NFL, you don't need New York. In baseball, you do need New York. In the NBA, you don't need New York. I don't think Utah, OKC, being the reigning dynasty in the NBA, would necessarily help, but don't forget. Remember this.

Jordan against the Jazz, is that still today the highest-rated NBA finals? It may be. So Utah's got a basketball brand. It almost feels collegiate, as does OKC with her fervor and it's a small town. We'll see how it plays out. One more herd? The herd streams 24 hours a day, seven days a week within the IHard Radio app. Search Herd to listen live or on demand whenever you'd like.

Hey, it's us, the Jonas Brothers, and guess what? We have some big news. What's the news, huge news? We created our own podcast called, Hey Jonas. We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to it. We're the first people to do podcasts.

Pretty, yeah, pretty wide range of podcasts throughout there. But this one's extra special. So how did we actually come up with a name, Hey Jonas, guys? I honestly don't remember. I think it was on a call about what we should call it. Oh, we were thinking I'm originally calling it one of the early names of our band. Before Jonas Brothers was... This is how you guys remember it going down?

Yes. I have a very different memory of this. We were talking about a thing, a bit for the podcast, where people could call in and say, hey, Jonas. And then I wrote down on my little notepad, Hey Jonas, and offered it up as a potential title for the podcast. But thanks for remembering that, guys. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,

or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL, late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman, help make you funnier. This week, my guest, S&L's Mikey Day and headwriter, Streeter Seidel,

help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind.

Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where SportsSlice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise. Breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves. Their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear.

The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context and ask the questions everybody wants answered. Sports slice brings you closer to the action. with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to SportsSlice on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slic Life 12 in the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. The French Open is one of the toughest tests in tennis.

And I know firsthand because I competed there myself. I'm Renee Stubbs. And on the Renee Stubbs tennis podcast, I'm breaking down everything happening at Roland Garris. Every match, every upset, and what it really takes to win on clay. Jensian went. I mean, she went down in three to Rabakina, but I'm delighted. She's an outsider to win the French for me. And she likes Clay. Listen, Lena Rubakina is arguably the best player in the world right now.

And I actually can win on any surface. Because if she's serving, well, good luck. Consider this your court side seat to the French Open. Listen to the Renee Stubbs tennis podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHeart Women's Sports. So here's the official story. Caitlin Clark in the Indiana Fever Against Chicago drew 2.7 million viewers. It's the most watched WNBA regular season game in 25 years.

You know, don't listen to the grifters out there that want to make this like a racial story. The bottom line is her game pops. She's a combination of Steph Curry and Jason Kidd. She's making 60-foot passes and 29-footers. Frankly, she plays a little bit like a guy. We've never seen a woman shoot 28-footers. Her passing, it looks like an NBA Jason Kid in his prime. It's just a different-looking game.

It doesn't matter if it's Lamar Jackson or Josh Allen. They both look different. I don't care if it's Morgan Wallin or Beyonce. They both sell out a tour. Who cares? People want unique. They want different. Her game pops.

Well, the racial component, Diana Tarossi, Sue Bird, didn't pop. Cheryl Miller did. It was her game. Cheryl Miller, what were the discussions for years about Cheryl Miller? Could she play in the NBA? She was their first star. Like Cheryl Miller was like, that was a discussion. Well, she beat Reggie one-on-one in the backyard.

So this whole thing, when I watch her play, it doesn't look. like anybody else. The WNBA's always had this fan base before Caitlin Clark where the people who were fans knew everything about the league. And then other, Rester Sports fans didn't know anything about it. Very niche, very garage band, very independent movie fan base. But she play, it just jumps off television. And people want to make this into anything other than that. I called her a year and a half ago. I said she's Taylor Swift and tennis shoes. Is Taylor Swift? the most talented musical artist. No, but she does something emotionally.

She's good enough, and she connects with people. And is Caitlin Clark the best player in the league? Well, she's the best guard. Asia Wilson is the best player. Some people just pop. I mean, Lamar Jackson cannot win a playoff game. I'm sorry when he's on. I can't turn the TV off.

Josh Allen can't get to a Super Bowl. I can't turn the TV off. Too many people are trying to divide in my space. she's dynamic. 60 foot passes. It's Jason Kidd. 28 footers. It's Steph Curry. The only other player in my life

in the WNBA that felt like this, women's player, and there's been a lot of great ones, is Cheryl Miller. And it was her game. It was just different. We had discussions back then. I think she could play in the NBA. Whether she could or not, it was a discussion.

And you look at Caitlin Clark's rank. It's NBA range. She is a better shooter from 27 feet than most of the NBA. And when you add that to a league that was already growing, that's what it is. I mean, the rivalry is great with Angel Reese because it was born in college, like Magic and Bird. So that helps. But Angel Reese is a really good player and a great rebounder. She doesn't jump off the TV.

She's just a really good player, and the league's got a bunch of those. But 2.7 million viewers, regular season most viewed gave ever in 25 years. Here's J. Mack with the news. No, no, no. Turn on the news. This is the herd line news. All right, let's start with the Raiders. Got a lot of Raiders fans out here, Colin.

And understandably so, they're excited. They got Ashton Genti with the sixth overall pick. They got Gino Smith as their new quarterback, and your guy Chip Kelly is the new OC. Interesting on Ashton Gentis. Remember at Boise, he had that upright backfield stance. He just stand up and kind of look like, I think they were comparing him to Michael Myers, the character on Friday the 13th who chased people with a knife. Well, Chip Kelly has got him to tweak it, and here he is talking about,

Gentie talking about his new backfield look. What's crazy is, man, Chip Kelly, he comes up to me the first day of rookie minicamp. He's like, you play basketball? Like, you ever play basketball? I'm like, yeah, I played basketball. Like, you know, I could dunk all that. He was like, show me how you would guard me. Like, he acting like he holding the ball.

He, like, show me how you regard me. He's holding the ball. Like, act like you holding the ball. Okay, got it. And I'm boom. I'm like, I'm here. You know what I'm like? And he was like, that's exactly why you got to be down and you're running back stands.

There he is standing up. Right, right, right. I mean, listen, it was funny at Boise State. I get it. But I think Chip Kelly's on to something. You've probably got to. Well, get it. It takes,

like a running guy. If you're standing and I told you to run, you need a step to start running. Yeah. If you're leaning forward in the chair, that basketball is called the chair stance, you don't need a step. You are running.

So the truth is you get off to a quicker start, crouched over standing. And also, he's already a small running back. Crouching makes him harder to see for safeties. So there's an aesthetic to it as well. Yeah, It's interesting.

Gentie, I don't know what to make of him, Colin. Again, he was like a transformative player in college football. I just, is he going to really pop and be like a Barry Sanders time? I mean, obviously that's a crazy. I think he's going to be really good. I think it was a great running back class. And every single scout I talked to had Gentie above the class. They like Hampton a lot as well.

But I didn't talk to. I talked to one executive in the league who I respect who thought, was the best player. Because of Travis Hunter having to play both, he goes, you have to pick what he has. He goes, if you are telling me positionally, what player is best at his singular position? He said, I would take Ashton Genty. And by the way, everybody else I talked to had him like four, three, six. Yeah.

So I think he's going to pop. Pete Carroll knows personnel. So does Chip Kelly. I think he's going to pop. So I'm just curious, this offensive skill position guys, right? They got Genti in the backfield. their receivers are Jacoby Myers, Trey Tucker, and then the young kid, Jack Beach,

tight end is Bowers. Yeah. It feels like they're going to be defended in a box because they don't have really a stretch-the-field guy unless you think that's Tucker. So they could be easy to defend if that makes any sense. Yeah, I think any team, I mean, I don't think they're a great team,

but I think they will be so much better at quarterback and so much better at running back popping and head coach. I think they're, I said this last year, if the Vikings finished fourth, they didn't. It would be the best fourth place team ever. The Raiders last year, and they were as bad as any team in the league of quarterback, gave the Chiefs fits twice. They will be, the Raiders, if they finish fourth, will easily be the best fourth place team in the division. I don't think there's any question in the league.

Let's stick in the AFC, talk about another rookie. And that's the Jags trading up for Travis Hunter. The second overall pick now, that gives Trevor Lawrence a pretty nice weapon on the outside to pair with Gamebreaker Brian Thomas Jr. Hunter and Lawrence are now practicing together and Trevor Lawrence took to the podium to break down his thoughts on Mr. Hunter. He's got a lot of juice. He can run all day. A lot of energy. I love it.

Good energy. Always dabbing guys up, just bringing juice every day. And like I said, high motor can just go. It's like a kid just runs around all day. He doesn't get tired, it seems like. So you can't have enough of that. And then as far as just talent, I mean, kind of speaks for himself.

Ball skills, run after the catch. He's very explosive. She didn't realize how explosive he was, in and out of cuts. He's impressive to watch. And we've gotten to connect a couple times. It's only going to keep getting better and better. You know, we've only worked together for a couple days now.

So we've got some time to really dial in on the details. Another reason I want Travis Hunter to play offense, you've got to validate that Trevor Lawrence contract. Honestly. Like, you've got to, you got to, now, listen, at this point, he hasn't earned the money. At this point, he hasn't been worth it. It's some, I've always said this about DAC. The reason that George Pickens move works, if you're going to pay DAC that kind of money,

you've got to get something out of it. You've got to get good numbers out of it and picking his short term works. So I think Trevor Lawrence, and I was a huge fan out of college, I think it's fair to say he's been a big disappointment. I think he's plat. I think he is what he is and what he is just isn't good enough when C.J. Stroud's in your division. Well, when you compare to like Andrew Luck, you know, it's, you know,

generational talent. Yeah, you've been a look down. But regarding Lawrence, Colin, like, he's been pretty solid. He just hasn't been otherworldly. I mean, how many coaches does the guy have? Like, what great receivers has he had? Like, again, he hasn't been put in a position to succeed and ask for the contract. I thought you always said with contracts, you're paying for what you think he'll deliver in the future, not his past. Right.

And, like, I think he could easily be a $55 million. You don't think so. Well, he's been dinged up. He hasn't won a lot of big games. He had to come back against the charges. You've got to be honest. It's probably arguably the weakest division in football, and you can't let C.J. Stroud come in and own it,

who came into a terrible organization. Last year, had the worst old line in the league, and won the division again. You put him in the AFC West or NFC North. Trevor Lawrence is finishing four. So you have to add context to all this stuff. He at this point, and I'm a fan, has not been worth the money. I think he's a great kid.

Who do you think has been better so far? And who do you think you would trust more going forward? Trevor Lawrence or Jordan Love? Jordan Love. No. Wow. Okay, all right. My fair.

I'm not even going to argue. That's crazy. But let's go to baseball, college. We haven't talked Dodgers in a minute, and they're kind of on the struggle bus. They got a home run from Motani last night, but they still lost to the Diamondbacks, and L.A. now has a first four-game home-losing streak since 2018.

Dave Roberts addressed the skid afterward. It's hard to start, you know, games behind, you know, before you're taking it bad. And I think the last week we've been, we have given up run to the first inning. So it's just, you know, we've got to flip that zero and kind of get a chance to get the game going. But it does show something about our offense that we continue to fight. Are you worried about your guts? Diamondbacks have a good batting order and the Dodgers can't get anybody out. It doesn't.

They've had, they can get ugly like everybody else. Baseball is so long, they're fine. When they're healthy and their pitching comes back and O'Tonnie starts pitching, they'll be fine. One of my buddies out here compared them a little bit to the Boston Celtics, who won the title last year, had a stack roster, everybody loves them, and then Boston kind of went through the motions, didn't even win the East in the regular season and now got bounced in the second round. Is there a parallel there, you think, Dodgers and Celtics? No, I don't. I think you have to look at baseball and just the really good teams with the really high payrolls.

They're all aiming for September. That's what they care about. They want to be healthy in September. They just want to get through. You know, they're just trying to get through it healthy. Get your arms healthy. I don't take anything from it. They've just fallen behind and they can't get anybody out.

Jay Mack with the news. Well, that's the news. And thanks for stopping by. The Hurd Lie News. I saw, this is interesting. So in the history of the NFL, I don't remember a quarterback room that was weirder than the Cleveland Browns. So it's Deshawn Watson who's hurt, nobody likes and won't play.

Two rookies drafted Dylan Gabriel and Schuhrer Sanders. Sort of a cast off who was a whiff in Pittsburgh, didn't do much. in Philadelphia, Kenny Pickett, and the likable aged Joe Flacco, who's at the end, the twilight, the very twilight of his career, but he wins more games than you think, and he's got big size, big arm, really good for the locker room. So it just, to me, so they have OTAs in a week, they just had minicamp. And I saw a story this week, I thought was odd, where Kenny Pickett we'll take first team snaps. And I thought, timeout.

I don't think he's as good as Flacco. Recently he hasn't been. Kenny Pickett's been bad as an NFL quarterback against good teams. Like, not even backup bad. Can have him in the building bad. And I'm going to, I'll lay it out there. There are five quarterbacks for the Browns. I'm going to argue Flacco starts,

Shadour Sanders, wins the job. The one thing I've always said about Shudur Sanders is he didn't win a lot in college, but if you look at the ranked opponents they played and he had a terrible O line, 19 touchdowns, four picks, completed 70% of his throws for almost 300 yards a game. He was a good big game player. He couldn't win because he was overwhelmed and running for his life with no run game. this whole Kenny Pickett story the hard part about this story is I think the owner who wanted to draft Baker, Mansell,

and signed to Sean Watson. I think the owner like Shadur more than Stafansky wanted to draft him. That's why they drafted Dylan Gabriel two rounds before so they wouldn't have to draft and get into the Shador sweepstakes. But Dylan Gabriel is not going to get cut at OTAs and either is Shadour.

Jeff Schwartz talked about the Brown situation, and he's probably right. There's just not enough reps, Colin, unless Chatur is that good early on. He's that much better than Flacco, which he probably won't be in practice, right? Flacco's done this a long time now. So you basically would have to give him the job saying, hey, man, we just see so much in practice. There's not a lot to see in games yet. We'll give him jobs. I think early on it's probably Flacco Pickett, whoever wins that job,

and then the primary backup will just be the winner of the Sanders-Gabriel. Well, if that's the case, Shador Sanders is a much better pro prospect than Dylan Gabriel. So my money is Flacco beats out Pickett, and then Shadur is the backup, and becomes the starter very quickly. The other reason that Shadur is safe is that the owner likes him, because we're not talking about the Cleveland Browns

with Joe Burrow and Lamar Jackson and the Steelers brand without Shadour Sanders. So it's really weird. You never have this many quarterback. around. You know, the kid they drafted Dylan Gabriel, I showed you a picture last week. I just I don't think he's a starting NFL quarterback. I don't think Kenny Pickett is. And at this point, Deshawn Watson's not. So to me, Flacco and Shador Sanders are your options.

So that's my bet. Flacco wins the job. Shadur wins the backup. And you don't have to like Shadur Sanders. But if Dion would have never spoke, would have never said the things he said during Super Bowl week. There's no way Chador Sanders drops past the middle of the second round. You don't have to love him, but a fifth round quarterback is viewed solely as a backup. I can't believe everybody in the league thinks he has no chance to be a starting quarterback. I just don't believe it.

Go look at Chador's numbers against ranked teams with a pretty modest supporting staff on the O line in the run game. It's the herd. Be sure to catch live editions of the herd weekdays in noon Eastern 9 a.m. Pacific on Fox Sports Radio, FS1, and the IHeart Radio app. Hey, it's Steve Kavino. And I'm Rich Davis. And together we're Kavino and Rich on Fox Sports Radio.

You can catch us weekdays from 5 to 7 p.m. Eastern, 2 to 4 Pacific, on Fox Sports Radio, and of course the IHeart Radio app. Why should you listen to Kavino and Rich? We talk about everything, life, sports, relationships, what's going on in the world? We have a lot of fun talking about the stories behind the stories in the world of sports and pop culture. Stories that, well, other shows don't seem to have the time to discuss. And the fact that we've been friends for the last 20 years and still work together, I mean, that says something, right? So check us out.

We like to get you involved too. Take your phone calls, chop it up, as they say. I'd say the most interactive show on Fox Sports Radio. Maybe the most interactive show on Planet Earth. Be sure to check out Kavino and Rich live on Fox Sports Radio and the IHeart Radio app from 5 to 7 p.m. Eastern, 2 to 4 Pacific. And if you miss any of the live show, just search Covino and Rich wherever you get your podcast and of course on social media. That's Covino and Rich. Hey, it's us, the Jonas Brothers, and guess what?

We have some big news. What's the news, news? Huge news. We created our own podcast called, Hey Jonas. We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to a... We're the first people to do podcasts.

Pretty, yeah, pretty wide range of podcasts are out there. But this one's extra special. So how do we actually come up with a name Hey Jonas, guys? I honestly don't remember I think it was on a call about what we should call it And we were thinking I'm originally calling it One of the early names of our band Before Jonas Brothers

This is how you guys remember it going down Yes I have a very different memory of this We were talking about a thing A bit for the podcast For people could call in and say hey Jonas And then I wrote down on my little notepad Hey Jonas And offered it up as a potential title

For the podcast But thanks for remembering that guys listen to hey jonas on the iheart radio app apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcast just listen we don't care where you hear it another podcast from some s nl late night comedy guy not quite unhumored me with robert smigel and friends me and hilarious guests from bob odenkirk to david letterman help make you funnier this week my guess s nl's mikey day and head writer streeter sidel help an acapella band with their between songs banter where does your group perform we do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and

friends on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves. their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real.

From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context, and ask the questions everybody wants answered. SportsSlice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to Sports Slice on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slices Life 12 and the TikTok podcast. network on TikTok. The French Open is one of the toughest tests in tennis, and I know firsthand because I competed there myself. I'm Renee Stubbs, and on the Renee Stubbs Tennis podcast, I'm breaking down everything happening at Roland Garris, every match, every upset, and what it really takes to

win on Clay. Jenchian win. I mean, she went down in three to Rabakina, but I'm delighted. She's an outsider to win the French for me. And she likes Clay. Listen, Lerner Rabakina is, arguably the best player in the world right now. And I actually can win on any surface. Because if she's serving, well, good luck. Consider this your courtside seat to the French Open. Listen to the Renee Stubbs tennis podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHeart Women's Sports. It's hard to figure out. Too many people, you know, want to get, you know, they want to create this Caitlin Clark drama that doesn't really

exist. The reason she just broke a WNBA ratings record. And it's interesting what pops in America. I'll give you an example. My son started playing Minecraft, you know, back in about 2014. And the movie, if you take out Minecraft the movie

right now from Hollywood, it's been a terrible year. Like Minecraft is saving Hollywood, like Oppenheimer and Barbie did a few years ago. So Minecraft started in Sweden. And my son was on it, like every day. He and his buddies were on Minecraft.

From Sweden, I can't explain it. I think Caitlin Clark, her only comp is Tiger Woods. People were not watching golf, and then Tiger Woods doubled the numbers. I mean, they were watching the Masters and Jack and Arnie, but like he brought a whole new audience. And now you could say Michael Jordan, but Michael Jordan took a few years. You know, people forget this about Michael Jordan. He won a Natty at Carolina his first year. He stayed in college for two more years.

he didn't get the he wasn't winning championships his last two years so you kind of forgot about him I remember when he didn't go number one he went number three remember Portland had Clyde Drexler and passed on him there wasn't a national outrage for Michael Jordan and then he went to Chicago and the Bulls were a mess Orlando Warridge Quentin Daly they're a mess of a franchise Jordan didn't take over the league at that point the Celtics were popular and the Lakers were popular Michael Jordan took time to become like this the fervor around him. You know, LeBron, the NBA was already established on TV. He didn't save the league.

He didn't double the ratings. Connor McGregor was more gasoline on the fire for UFC, but it was already the fastest growing sport. You had Chuck Liddell. You had people that knew about UFC. Now, Connor McGregor became their rock star, but it was already growing like wildfire. There have been a couple of musical acts that were just immediate hits.

At least they feel immediate. Garth Brooks, I can remember. Now, you two in Rolling Stones, the Eagles over time sold out, but Garth Brooks got hot fast. Beyonce, hot fast. Taylor Swift, little slower growth, but there's not a lot out there. Like Tiger Woods and Caitlin Clark, that's the comp. Where we didn't watch something and now we watch it all the time. I never talk WNBA.

the people who are opinionists in this country. You didn't talk WNBA. It was nothing against the WNBA. It wasn't interesting enough. It just didn't have superstar players. It just had a bunch of good players. The game wasn't that fascinating. It's really something to watch the merchandise sales.

I mean, to be able to take a league that flew commercial and get it on private flight first year, that's Tiger. That's not LeBron. That's not Connor McGregor. That's not even Taylor Swift. So what we're seeing here, and I'll give the WNBA credit, they had no idea how popular she was going to be. Even Steph Curry, as popular as he was, there was a real argument in the Bay Area whether to keep Monta Ellis or Steph Curry.

People talked about that. Like Jerry West was like, if you don't keep Steph, you're out of your mind. But Monta Ellis was hyper athletic. He was fun to watch. I think they were a playoff team. Like people were watching the Warriors. Michael Jordan, when Michael last two years in the tournament, people were more enamored with, if I recall,

NC State and Jim Volmano. They weren't the best team in his college state in one of his last years, if I recall. So there's nothing like this. And again, Connor McReyer was big, but the UFC was growing and had a rabid fan base and will sell out arenas. So I don't even, I don't know how to explain it.

It's like, it's mine, Minecraft worldwide gross box office is nearly a billion dollars. It's in the top 75 of grossing movies of all time, and it was a video game. And if you had a young son, I can't, I can't, my daughter didn't play, if you had a young son in the last 10 years, they had to be on Minecraft. My son was easily distracted, except for my son. Minecraft. So I think the WNBA, to their credit, they were overwhelmed the first year. They just, it was like ticket master not having enough tickets for certain acts. Sometimes things pop in this country, and I can't explain it. Like I'll say this about Taylor Swift.

She's great. My daughter years and years ago, it's weird happenstance. My daughter 15 years ago, I said, who's your favorite musical act? She goes, oh, I love Taylor Swift. and I said, you know, it's funny. Her dad works with a friend of mine in Nashville, and she sent an autographed picture with a pick. I'm not really into that stuff, but my daughter had it in her room. She probably still has it somewhere.

And that was like, oh, because, you know, I didn't, but I didn't know who Taylor Swift was. And even when I listen to Taylor Swift now, it doesn't, it doesn't, like, move me. Like, it's not, and it's, it's, it's, it's, there's been a lot of Amy Weingarten. I was like, oh, Lady Gaga. I mean, there, there have been, uh, is that Amy Weingart? Amy Winehouse, my bad.

There's been music I've listened to. A lot of Morissette came out. I was like, oh, that's gravelly. That's rough. That works for me. I don't really get the Taylor Swift thing. I think it's a movement. A lot of stuff I don't get, and it pops.

I'll tell you with Caitlin Clark, I don't think it's that hard. She's shooting 28-footers. Women didn't. She takes NBA three-pointers, and she passes like Jason Kidd. And I think whether it's some emotional connection, she played in the Midwest, I don't know if that's it. A lot of people played in the Midwest. I do think what has helped women's basketball and has hurt men's basketball is that women stay in college for three or four years and develop rivalries. So we have some level of emotional attachment.

And, you know, the NBA, every other NBA draft is all European guys at the top. I didn't watch them play out of them. I'm not watching Dusseldorf on YouTube. I don't know who they are. This year's draft with Cooper Flagg and the Rutgers guys will be more domestic. But we don't get these a lot. It may be every half decade in America. I remember Sopranos.

Sopranos hit. And there are very few TV shows that change my lifestyle. But Tiger Woods got me to a TV on Sundays. Sopranos got me to it. I like mob stuff. Very few TV shows have ever changed. remember when I was in college. I think it was Cheers on Thursday night. Everybody, because y'all went to bars in college. Cheers got me to a TV. Sopranos got me to a TV. Caitlin Clark does. She's got that

sticky quality. Yeah, no, for sure. There is a parallel to Curry that I think you brought up. Curry went to Davidson, small college, was slaying the big dogs. I know Iowa's not small, but in the college basketball world, they're small. Caitlin Clark was taking down all the big dogs and taking down records, and I think people got behind that. We love an underdog in this country, Colin. You know that. Yeah. Okay. And Caitlin Clark with the ball in her hands all the time was doing magical stuff. And that's one of the things that like, you know, some of the Angel Reese, for example, she doesn't have the ball in her hands all the time. She needs to get the ball to do something. Caitlin Clark always has the ball dribbling circles around everybody. Phenomenal story.

I'll tell you, I, you know, my daughter plays some hoops. As soon as the WNBA schedule came out, my wife and daughter were like, when is Caitlin Clark coming to play the L.A. Sparks? We want to go to the game again this year. So like that's not happening in W. That's never happened before in our family. Like we just haven't gone to a WNBA game before Caitlin Clark. Well, I remember when Taylor Swift was in Los Angeles. I think she played six or seven shows at SoFi all sold out. You would go to restaurants in L.A. that week. And you would see tables of eight to 10 to 12 women having dinner before they went to the show all dressed up. Middle age women, young women, I'm like, okay, I've never seen this. This is a phenomenon. I don't even know how to explain it.

Our freedom. Hey guys, it's us. The Jonas Brothers. I'm Joe. I'm Kevin. And I'm Nick. And guess what? We created our own podcast called, Hey Jonas.

We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to it. We're the first people to do podcasts. We get to ask other people questions because we're sick and tired of being asked questions. Well, sick and tired is a strong way to put it. But, you know. Tired and sick.

Tired and sick. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you. hear it. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smigel and Friends. Me and hilarious

guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for

banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you Get your podcasts. I'm Michelle McPhee, and I've been unraveling the strangest criminal alliance I've ever reported on. A Mormon polygamist and an Armenian businessman. Multi-million dollar house, Ferraris and Lamborghinis, private jets, a billion dollar fraud. But how long can this alliance last?

Tell me what you know. Is somebody coming after me? Listen to Kingdom of Fraud on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you Get your podcasts. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where SportsSlice comes in.

I'm Timbo, and every episode we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the biggest moments in sports and giving you the real story behind the headline. And we're going straight to the source, the athletes themselves, their locker room stories, their reactions in the moment, and the stuff nobody gets to hear. Listen to Sports Slice on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or,

wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slica Life 12 in the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed human.