The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Hour 2 - Greg Olsen stops by The Herd

Episode Date: May 28, 2025

Colin talks to Fox Sports NFL analyst Greg Olsen about the expectations for Bears quarterback Caleb Williams under new head coach Ben Johnson He also talks to Rachel Nichols about the Pacers on the verge of going to the NBA Finals to most likely play against the ThunderSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Indiana Pacers have taken control of the series. Indiana has played 14 playoffs games. They're 0 and 3 in game threes when they lead 2-0. When they've taken control of the series, winning on the road, at Milwaukee, at Cleveland, at New York, they go into the other team's place, steal both games. They come home, foot on the gas, let's off a little, and they've lost one game in each series, game three. That's it. Otherwise, they're 11 and 0. In the urgency games, games one and two, four, five, six, they're 11 and oh. And Halliburton's stat line last night, maybe the most impressive thing I've ever seen in my life. 32, 15, 10, and no turnovers. That is beyond hyper-efficiency.

That is insane. That'd be like an NFL. That's what Jaden Daniels did last year, when he would go like 30 of 34 with no turnovers. What? It's just, it's against the defensive coach and a defensive team. And the other thing is, and you saw this with Magic Johnson, you see this with a truly great point guard. You see this with Chris Paul. Remember when Chris Paul was in L.A.? Like Blake Griffin was like, is he a top three or four player in the league?

And D'Andre Jordan was nothing but buckets. And then Chris Paul leaves those two players and they're not the same players. You see all the holes in their game. I like Pascal Seacom. He looks all NBA first team. playing with Halliburton. 32, 15, 10, and no turnovers. Here's Hallie after.

I feel like we're making up stats at some point to make me look better. I was just trying to be aggressive, man. I just trying to play my best. You know, I feel like I let the team down in game three. I felt like I could have been so much better. So I felt like I responded the right way today. The only time I haven't liked Indiana in this series was when they had Halliburton off the floor, end of the third quarter in game three, and the start of the fourth.

And they lost their rhythm. And this is a rhythm team. And it's a rhythm team because of Halliburton. And then he came back in. He got him back on track, but it just, it felt like they lost their mojo. So like every time he goes to the bench, if Brunson goes to the bench, cat can score more. The Knicks don't necessarily go into a cave. Halliburton's off the floor. It's like, it's like white knuckle time. You're like, okay, all right, let's make sure this thing works. He is all-time special. I love watching him play. And I think he's a great personality.

With that, Greg Olson, joining us live, 14 years in the NFL, Fox Sports Analyst. Great, great broadcaster. By the way, Tideon University is back. It's fifth year in Nashville in June 23rd to the 26th. I want to ask you about that because part of what you do, which I think is the most under-discussed part of your sport, is film study. And Caleb Williams was recently quoted talking about the bear. is a team you played for and loved playing for. He's like, yeah, I'd watched film alone.

And I don't, you know, I'm not in those rooms. When you hear that, he watched film alone. What was your interpretation of that? How's that land for you? Yeah, it lands, as you would expect. It's just, it's hard for me to believe that that was the case. And I'm not saying he's not being genuine. I've been in three different organizations,

multiple different head coaches, multiple different quarterback. I've never heard of a guy not having the opportunity to watch film with his position coach, let alone the quarterback, not, you know, between the quarterback coach, the offensive coordinator, someone there. It's hard for me to believe that the organization would let their young rookie watch film by himself. But with that being said, yeah, it is, though, an element of the sport that there is a little bit of a learning curve. I don't think most young guys coming out of college unless you just happen to be playing for, you know, the right coach, the right position coach coordinator, whoever at the college level to teach you the art of film study. I think we just have a joke like we're not in here watching movies, right?

There's a lot of guys that put the game on, play one, and they just go play one, play two, play three, and they just go through the sequence of a game. You know, yes, you're watching film. Are you really getting the tendencies and really know what you're looking at to see? study. My experience is most guys have to learn that. Most guys have to learn that over the career. How I watched film in my 14th year was wildly different than how I watched it my first and second year. And I think it's up to the organization. It's up to the coach, especially at the quarterback position where there is no greater responsibility than understanding not only everything of what your team is doing, but of course what the opposing team is doing defensively. So I can't

imagine Ben Johnson's going to let that go on at all. So I think for Caleb Williams and his development, the right guy now is in control in Chicago, both over the team and then obviously offensively with what Ben Johnson can do. But yeah, when I read that report, I kind of did a ooh, like true, not true, scales of truth, whatever. There's always probably two sides to every story. But just the fact that that was even suggested is not a great, is not a great reflection of the organization for sure. By the way, did you and Cam, for instance, film study, would you sit down with Cam and go, dude, this guy in the flats week? Is that a real thing? Oh, absolutely. So we had a great routine. So it was actually kind of fun. So most of the meetings from when we got there in the

morning were all controlled by the coaches. It was small group meetings, offensive install. Then we'd have practice. Then we'd have post practice review where we'd watch the practice film. So there was opportunities to, you know, okay, coach, take. a second, Cam, here's why I ran this flat, here's why, and you're watching practice film or you're watching and the opportunity to go. But there's 35 guys in the room. It's not really the opportunity for the two of you to have your own conversation. But then at the end of the day, when everything officially with the coaches ended, the tight end in the quarterback room in Carolina were right next to each other. We literally shared a wall. So he'd be in his room with some of the quarterbacks

and I'd be doing, sometimes I liked being by myself at the end of the day just for my own prep and notes and whatnot. And I knew he was right next door. So I would pop over and be like, hey, I need you to come take a look at this and say, hey, look at the way the safety's hips are. Are you okay if I take this a couple yards deeper? Am I going to throw off your timing? And most of the time, Cam was just like, get open. I'm good. But then sometimes he'd be like, I can't hold it that long or it messes up with my timing of my footwork. Or I don't like the way your body language looks on there because you kind of fooled me. I wasn't sure when you were going to come out of your break. I need less at the top. So like that dialogue in meetings on the field

was nonstop. And when you can play with one guy for as long as we did, over time, I knew his answer before I even had to ask him and vice versa, because we had talked through so many scenarios over so many days, you know, for those nine years together. So Cam was a mover. Caleb's a mover. Cam Ward is a mover. Like I like Cam a lot and I think Tennessee could be a playoff team. team tell the audience when you do have Caleb Williams and he can add lib now i think the bears online is better he won't have to do it as much but some of these guys like cam cam ward and Caleb they're just naturally gifted it's like if you have a great voice you sing in the shower like that's just the reality of their game when you have a mobile quarterback does it make it harder for tight ends

and does it make it harder in film study so much as ad lib you know that's a great question so I think what we're seeing right now in the NFL is you can't play. I should say with uncertainty. The vast majority of guys cannot play NFL quarterback if you don't have some level of improv, right? Some level of playing off script, off platform, all the words, the buzzwords that get thrown around. But the ability to buy time, escape pocket pressure, and still stay active as a quarterback and not always just rely on being a runner. Stay active as a passer, I mean.

Now, you also can't only play off script. You can't only play improv quarterback at the NFL. There's no timing. There's no rhythm. The tackles don't know your depth of your drop. The guards don't know the depth of the pocket. Am I blocking for you to be at five and a half yards? Or are you going to be outside the hash marks running with your life?

If I'm a quarterback, if I'm a wide receiver or a tight end, I need to know at the top of my break when I get my head around, am I looking to find you behind the center at seven yards? Or is there a chance that you've already broken, contain and you're outside the pocket and now I need to get into scramble drilled. So there is a balance to it all. You can't just stand in one spot and be a statue in today's NFL. And you also can't just play recess football running around. It's not sustainable. So I think that blend of don't take what's special out of these guys. Don't take it out of their game. If you have the ability to

move and improvise, encourage them to do it, but just give them boundaries, give them parameters of saying, okay, I need you to hit your fifth step of your drop and it's a progression pass or it's a half field read or whatever the play calls for. After you've exhausted all of that, if the opportunity there is to extend and create plays outside the rhythm of the game, we're never going to take you away. But it can't be hit your back foot and run around because we can't support you doing that every single play from a protection and a route concept. So there is a little give and take. And I think. think that's something that Ben Johnson has proven. He's coached multiple different types of

quarterbacks. He had a guy in golf who really was stationary in rhythm, in timing, get the ball out of his hand. He will have a little bit of a different flavor for a guy like Caleb, where he does get that rhythm progression passer in the offense because you need it. But then also encourage him to use his athleticism because it is very challenging for defenses to play off script and defend that long. Before I get to the tight end, you, the tush push, you know, as a guy that was a willing blocker, my guess was you like it. Do you like the tush push? I do.

I think it would be an extremely unfair and wrong to Philadelphia, who has really, some teams have done it here and there. No one has even come remotely close to doing it as efficiently as often and used it as such a fabric of their offensive philosophy from how they manage third downs knowing they got a yard and a half in their back pocket, how they call first and second down plays knowing they have a fourth down in their back pocket. Goal to go situations. Like it is a not just a play. It is really a centerpiece of the entire fabric philosophy that Siriani has built with that offense in Jalen Hurd. So I think to remove that from a team who has found a play that they're uniquely good at,

just because the rest of the league is tired of trying to find ways to defend it. I don't agree with. My gut tells me they are going to eventually ban it. I think it came so close this year at the owner's meeting. Typically those things don't come back. They typically continue to move forward and getting the other side to flip. I hope I'm wrong because I think Philly has earned the right to use that in their offense. I don't think the linemen love doing it.

I don't think they love being at the bottom of the pile on, you know, seven times a game, five times a game. But when you're winning Super Bowls and you tell me I got to mush a guy out of there and get my back right, I'll do that. I'll do that to win the Super Bowl. So I'll be curious to see how it plays out. Finally, I think, you know, people were complaining a couple of years ago about, you know, running backs don't make any money. It's unfair. And my take has been well, tight ends have been underpaid my entire life. They have to block the best athlete on defense and they have to catch. They have to do most of the dirty work.

And then they're one of the last positions. I guess this has changed that you can really take a shot at as a defensive player. So when you have your Nashville Tide-end University and you have all these young guys in, what is something you preach to young Tide-Ns, a high school tight end? It's not all catching. Like, is there something that, do you deliver a message, a harsh message to all these young tight ends that I wouldn't think about? Yeah, and it's actually a very simple message.

And, you know, we get into route running and we got Kelsey given, you know, really high level coverage recognition and how to use leverage and breaking and finding space. And a lot of this stuff I kind of look and I laugh and I'm like, Kelsey, like not everyone can do what you're talking about right now because it's, it's super advanced and him and Mahomes. And then you got kiddle talking run game and footwork and hand placement and fight. And, you know, these guys are just so unique. but obviously they have a lot of experience and a lot of understanding of the position. But the message that we try to deliver, at least the one I try to deliver to all of our guys, to your point is the best opportunity to have success at tight end,

especially at a higher level, is to be able to be trusted to be on the field on every snap. And that's going to be your best case for production, catches, yards, opportunities, how much you get paid, the impact on the offense, all of it. If you, you could be the best past catching tight end in football or the best run blocking tight end in football. But if I can only use that, I can only use you in package of the offense at times where those skill sets are warranted, you still are going to play in the NFL. You are still going to be able to find a roster spot because those skills have value. But if you want to be a legit guy, you want to catch 80 balls, you want to have 1,000 yards. The only reason I ever caught a thousand yards, Colin, was because I knew I went into every game.

And there was like four to six real routes downfield, 20 plus yards that were designed for me. But of that four to six, I needed the right protection, the right play call. Did the play ever get called in the first place against the right coverage? And then did I catch it? Was the throw? There's so many factors. Of those four to six, if I got two or three of those, that was a great day. But now you got three catches for 55 yards, but now I caught a flat route.

I caught a first and second down checkdown because I'm on the field. I caught a short yardage, a short yardage pass, a goal line pass. And next thing you know, I'd finish with seven for 90. And it wasn't a flashy play. So if I'm only on the field for the flashy plays, I never catch the easy ones. And if I'm only good enough to be on the field and goal line and short yardage, because I'm a blocker, I don't catch a third and eight dig across the middle for 25. So being on the field and providing value to your team, no matter the down and distance,

you're not looking to the sideline, what personnel package are they calling? If I'm on the huddle every single play, even if I'm not the best at anything, my ability to raise my value and raise my earnings, my production, all of it, go up. So that's our message to them. Be good enough at everything. and it's a much easier road. Great stuff. Great broadcaster.

Fox Sports. It's tight end to you. It's in Nashville, the 23rd to the 26th, a great American city in Tennessee. Good seeing you, my man. Good seeing you, man. Have a great summer.

Yeah. See, J. Mack, if you did more than just jack up threes, if you could defend a little, if you could occasionally screen like Greg Olson talked about, you could be on the floor in key spots, not just jacking up threes when your team's down. You do?

I know you like to take jabs at my hoops game. but I'll just say I've signed up for the most competitive hoop league I've ever joined. There's a large money to the winner in this league this summer. My wife doesn't even know about it. I'm just telling you right now.

Yeah, because money is a real issue for you. You're not compensated. Well, listen, you know, everybody could use a little raise every now and then, Mr. Coward. You're ridiculous. All right. I want to thank Greg Olson for stopping by.

It's the herd. One more herd? The herd streams 24 hours. Today seven days a week within the IHeart Radio app. Search heard to listen live or on demand whenever you'd like. Hey, it's us, the Jonas Brothers, and guess what? We have some big news. What's the news, name?

Huge news. We created our own podcast called, Hey Jonas. We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to it. We're the first people to do podcasts. Pretty, yeah, pretty wide range of podcasts throughout there. But this one's extra special.

So how do we actually come up with a name, Hey Jonas, Jonas, guys? I honestly don't remember I think it was on a call about what we should call it And we were thinking I'm originally calling it One of the early names of our band Before Jonas Brothers This is how you guys remember it going down

Yes I have a very different memory of this We were talking about a thing A bit for the podcast People could call in and say hey Jonas And then I wrote down on my little notepad Hey Jonas and offered it up as a potential title For the podcast But thanks for remembering that

guys listen to hey jonas on the iheart radio app apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcast just listen we don't care where you hear it another podcast from some s nl late night comedy guy not quite unhumored me with robert smigel and friends me and hilarious guests from bob odenkirk to david letterman help make you funnier this week my guess s n l's mikey day and head writer streeter sidel help an acapella band with their between songs banter where does your group perform we do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending,

opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves. Their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context and ask the questions everybody wants answered. Sports Slice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to Sports Slice on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever

you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slices Life 12 and the tick TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. The French Open is one of the toughest tests in tennis, and I know firsthand because I competed there myself. I'm Renee Stubbs, and on the Renee Stubbs Tennis podcast, I'm breaking down everything happening at Roland Garris. Every match, every upset, and what it really takes to win on clay. Jen she won.

I mean, she went down in three to Rabakina, but I'm delighted. She's an outsider to win the French, me. And she likes Clay. Listen, Lina Rabakina. is arguably the best player in the world right now and I actually can win on any surface because if she's serving, well, good luck. Consider this your court side seat to the French Open.

Listen to the Renee Stubbs tennis podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHeart Women's Sports. Tyrese Halliburton. I know it's hard to say superstar in this league if you're not jumping over people

or you're not 32 a game, but he feels like an emerging superstar to me. Here's J. Mack with the news. No, no, no, no, turn on the news. This is the herd line news. So you know I picked the Buffalo Bills, Colin, to get to the Super Bowl and win it. Well, some bad news.

Already new edge rusher, Joey Bosa, is sidelined to start OTAs, and worse yet, James Cook is a no-show. He's been asking for a new contract entering the final year of his rookie deal. this isn't great. Okay, Bosa already hurt Chargers fans. That's familiar sounds to their ears as they've seen him always injured.

He has a calf injury. Colin, they said Bosa is expected to miss off-season work until the summer. What is that, July? And Cook was a stud. Second-most T-Ds in the league tie with Derek Henry. Not a great start to OTAs for the Buffaloville. I have no fears. Running back needs the least.

practice of any position in football, offensive line usually needs the most practice along with quarterback. And pass rusher is another position. If you're in shape, you'll be able to rush the passer. It's not like Joey Bosa is going to forget how to rush the passer. I actually think it's one of the better pickups of the year. Bosa? Yeah, I mean, he can be banged up.

Listen, the Chargers didn't want to pay Khalil Mack and Joey Bosa. They just couldn't pay both because of what they're paying Herbert and they're going to have to pay their left tackle. So there were just, there were limitations on, you know, they had to move off at one point,

Mike Williams and Keenan Allen. And so they're going to pay Kaleo Mack, who's been more available. Joey Bost is going to go in there and have double-digit sacks for the bills. Oh,

what? Remember, they also lead in 14 to 15 of their games. They'll lead in the fourth quarter, meaning the opponent's passing. So he's going to get, this is not a team that's going to be, let's be honest. This is not a team.

it's going to be trailing late. They're favored in every single game, including the Eagles game. What does that mean? I learned this years ago from Bill Paulian. When they drafted Peyton Manning, his takeaway was, we're going to be leading most of our games. Let's go draft pass rushers. And that's, by the way, Bill Belichick,

we're going to be leading with Brady. Now, they always didn't have sack leaders, but they always led or were near the top in hurried and rushes. So once you get the great quarterback, By the way, what do the Chiefs pay on defense? They let a lot of people go. They don't let Chris Jones go because they're going to lead games. So Joey Bosa is a must for this team.

He's going to end up with 11 or 12 sacks. You know what we're going to need this summer. We need Ryan and Jay have a board next to you with our bets because that is insane. You think Bosa's going to have double-digit sacks? I don't even think he plays double-digit games this season. This guy is a walking injury. Honestly, listen, he'll make a big.

I would just say put him in bubble wrap and unleash him in January. Just save him for the playoffs, honestly. Like, that's crazy. I do want to just repeat the bills are winning the Super Bowl. All right, next story, Colin is my next. Man, this is tough. It's just a difficult, it's a difficult day for me, man. Brunson and company could not get it done.

Josh Hart was freaking terrible. I don't know. I don't know what to do. Let's just hear what Kat has to say after the Pacers took a 3-1 lead in the series. We've been a team that has. kind of found a way to do the impossible when it always seemed impossible. You know, we just keep fighting. So it's going to be a testament to our whole playoff run.

You know, now we have to be in one of the biggest fights of our lives. Well, it's been, listen, it's been fun, but the Pacers are 11 and O in playoff games that aren't game three. And, like, by the way, they took a lead last night. I felt like last night they controlled the game. They had a lead early. They had a late in the fourth quarter. I felt like, and a lot of it was the Knicks. The defense was lacking.

They had no defense. And they had turnovers. I mean, if you go look at the turnovers, they almost had twice as many turnovers as Indiana. So a lot of it was misfiring by the Knicks. But I felt last night when I watched that game, I felt like Indiana was in control of it, most of it. No, they definitely were.

I don't think the Knicks led in the second half. I'm, you know, this pains me to say even more. I want a competitive NBA final. right? Who do you think matches up better with the OKC Thunder? It's not the Knicks. I think it's a Pacers, right? Yeah, I don't think anybody matches up perfectly with OKC. I think Indiana, because of Halliburton and their pace, they can run with anybody. They're not as good defensively as OKC,

but generally when you get to the NBA finals, remember, Oklahoma City would go in as a big favorite. the pressure would be on Oklahoma City. So that is something, and remember, their big is Chet Holmgren. I get Miles Turner and Pascal Seyakum. I get two veteran bigs. They're big as young Chet Holmgren.

So I feel like I have a big advantage. Now, SGA is a better score than Halliburton, but Halliburton plays with great, much better pace, much better full court. And so, I mean, a lot of people don't think it's a great matchup. I think Indiana matches up with everybody. Indiana matches up. They can match up really well.

Neesmith, you see him bodying Brunson. By the way, the other things, the Pacers are young. Colin, the oldest guys on their roster are T.J. McConnell at 33 and Seacom at 31. And if you look at OKC, their oldest guy, Caruso, 31. This is a young, all of a sudden, there's a young finals. And I know it's not like the sexiest matchup, but I do think the Pacers can push them. I'm not seeing anything from the Knicks that legs me to do. The Thunder's identity is they force a lot of turnovers,

and the Pacers don't commit turnovers. Halliburton, are you ready? Halliburton has six turnovers in four games against the Knicks. Six in four games. That's like playing 40 minutes a night. That's crazy. Halliburton has been sensation. Final story, Colin, is, oh, Aaron Rogers.

The rumors continue about him in Pittsburgh. Well, let's talk about the current starter right now. And that's Mason Rudolph. You know, this guy's been around the league for a minute. bounced over to the Titans last year, and he was asked about how it felt to be back in the black and yellow. It's great. I've been a part where you jump on the moving train late in the spring,

and then you're also here from the jump. So I've learned to adapt to both, but it's obviously good to be won. You know what? There's a lot worse jobs in the NFL than being mostly a career backup with 20 starts in your career. He's had a really, nice and I remember when he played at Oklahoma State. He's hung around. He's a good guy in the room. I mean, what does it tell you that Pittsburgh brought him back? He's a good guy.

People, when you start bringing guys back, they're good in the room. That's why Chase Daniel, that's why he lasted forever. Guys want Josh McNow. People want him, they want him in the room. Yeah. Is that why I'm still here? You just want me to hang out. I wouldn't say that's your strength. We keep in your around. There's budget concerns, so we'll just keep you around for a while. Oh, wow. Okay. All right. I hear you. Jay MacKlin News. Well, that's the news.

And thanks for stopping by. The Heard Lye News. I think this is interesting. There's obviously, there's a lot of pushback on Caitlin Clark walking into the WNBA and easily being their most popular player. Popularity is hard to explain. I've said this before. Taylor Swift is brilliant and she's gifted and she's amazing.

Do I think she has the best voice? No, no, I don't. And I don't know music. But, but, you know, I've heard lots of singers who, to me, there's some sort of visceral connection, male and female. But she's universally accepted as the musical artist star. There's been a lot of action heroes. Is Tom Cruise the best actor? I don't know. He's the biggest star by a mile. Steph Curry's never been the best player in the NBA. I think he's more popular than LeBron. Why? I don't know. So for any of the WNBA players that want to make it about anything other than it happens. John Daly was kind of a mess personally, was wildly popular on the PGA tour. He was in every man.

Brett Favreve, I would argue, was more popular than Tom Brady. Brady was a much more successful quarterback, but people connected with Brett Fav and sometimes maybe Tom was austere and he was he was sort of the gold standard and you know he wasn't highly emotional and whatever who knows but i do think it's possible diana tarrossey knows her stuff she said that dallas wings rookie page beckers the ucon player who was drafted number one she said she'll become the best player in the league for sure so she's been a phenom since she was in the sixth grade she's not the playmaker of kately clark but she's a better pure score eventually better shooter, well, just better pure score. So it's very possible in back-to-back years, you're going to get

the two most popular WNBA players ever. Happened with Magic and Bird in the NBA. It just different players, big brands, it happened. Listen, Mahomes got drafted in 2017. Josh Allen got drafted in 2018, both in the AFC. I'd argue two most popular players in the NFL. So Paige Becker was, when she was at Yukon. She was the women's college basketball player of the year as a freshman. She was much better than Caitlin Clark, much earlier in life, much better. Caitlin Clark, however, played for a college program that we didn't watch or care about until she arrived. Paige Becker has Gino Oriema's brand, the UConn women's basketball brand, the greatest of all time. Gino's the best coach. That's the biggest brand. It's like being a quarterback at Alabama with Sabin. The quarterback kind of gets lost behind

Sabin, the brand, the defense, you know, just the factory that is Alabama. And so Page Beckers will probably never be quite as popular because of her route and because Caitlin Clark also has a unique game where she's shooting from 38 feet. Caitlin Clark's more of a comet. But if you're talking about who's the better player, there's an argument Paige Beckers will be the better player. And I'll say it again, it is, it's hard to explain popularity. big guys like Shaq and Yanis have never sold shoes.

Yolkich can't sell shoes, right? Like some guys can sell them. I don't know. I mean, I look at it. Nick Wright stopped by yesterday talking about Caitlin Clark and her effect around the NBA. I would encourage people who are big time pre-Katelyn Clark, WMBA fans or women's basketball fans, to embrace this rather than push back.

against it. Do you know who the biggest beneficiaries of Tiger Woods were? Other golfers. I think, you know, one of the biggest winners from Caitlin Clark is going to be Asia Wilson, who is still the best player in the sport. I think Paige Beckers, who it could be a real rivalry with Caitlin Clark over the next decade. She's a winner from this. Yeah, it's, I mean, if you look at the history of superstars in sports, they almost always have. have, they're, they're kind of the same in age, like Messi and Ronaldo, Peyton Manning and Brady, Mahomes and Josh Allen, magic and bird. I mean, you, you know, I don't know their exact ages, but I, you know, I grew up in the, you know, the Ollie and Frazier, Sugar Ray Leonard,

and Hagler, is you generally need a conflict. It doesn't matter if one's a villain. You just, it didn't matter if magic or bird were more popular. They were both popular. and both had very parochial tribal followings, Lakers, and Celtics. So if you look through five WNBA games, Paige Becker's very close to Caitlin Clark. Now, Caitlin's scoring more, but again, she's been in the league, and it's very hard at any level to go from college to professional in your first five games. I don't care who you are. But Paige Becker's is in the sixth grade.

There's a legendary picture of her in the sixth grade, where she was the best sixth grader in the country. There's an argument. She is the better basketball talent. And I think it's very possible. Yeah, there's the, that's funny. I think it's very, very possible that we've got a Brady Manning thing here or a Mickelson Tiger thing here. In tennis, men's tennis, you had three.

You had Nadal, Fedder, and Joachvich. So that was rare when you had three greatest players, probably of all time. Fedder, I think,'s a little older, but all playing, all rivals, all kind of got along. But I think, and let's not make it more than it is. like, well, why are they the two most popular players? They're new. Who can explain popularity? It's impossible to explain. It's like the Rock didn't go to Juilliard School of Acting. He demands the biggest paycheck in Hollywood. He's a pro wrestler. Arnold was the governor of California. I can't explain it. You would have never.

a guest, Arnold Schwarzenegger, as an action star. You would have laughed if I suggested, yes, he will be as a moderate to a conservative, the governor of California. Sometimes he can be hard to understand. He's got a lot of alpha. He smokes a lot of cigars. Maybe the governor of California. Who can explain it? It's like I tell my kids, like, don't wake up seeking happiness. It's a rainbow. You could be happy. One minute, sad than next. Wake up with a purpose. find happiness or happiness will find you. Being popular, I can't explain it. There are politicians I love. They can't win elections or lose elections regularly. I can't explain it. But I do think Paige Becker's and Caitlin Clark, I think it's very possible in two years. They're the two most

popular players in the WNBA. And not necessarily the two best. Asia Wilson is a better player right now for the Las Vegas A's. Be sure to catch live editions of the herd weekdays in noon Eastern 9 a.m. Pacific on Fox Sports Radio. FS1 and the I Heart Radio app. Hey, it's Steve Kavino. And I'm Rich Davis. And together we're Kavino and Rich on Fox Sports Radio. You can catch us weekdays from 5 to 7 p.m. Eastern, 2 to 4 Pacific on Fox Sports Radio,

and of course the I Heart Radio app. Why should you listen to Kavino and Rich? We talk about everything, life, sports, relationships, what's going on in the world? We have a lot of fun talking about the stories behind the stories in the world of sports and pop culture. Stories that, well, other shows don't seem to have the time to discuss. And the fact that we've been friends for the last 20 years and still work together, I mean, that says something, right? So check us out.

We like to get you involved too. Take your phone calls, chop it up, as they say. I'd say the most interactive show on Fox Sports Radio. Maybe the most interactive show on Planet Earth. Be sure to check out Covino & Rich live on Fox Sports Radio and the IHeart Radio app from 5 to 7 p.m. Eastern, 2 to 4 Pacific. And if you miss any of the live show, just search Covino and Rich, wherever you get your podcast and, of course, on social media.

That's Coveino and Rich. Hey, it's us, the Jonas Brothers, and guess what? We have some big news. What's the news, new? Huge news. We created our own podcast called, Hey Jonas. We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it.

We just contributed to it. We're the first people to do podcasts. Pretty, yeah, pretty wide range of podcasts throughout there. But this one's extra special. So how do we actually come up with a name, Hey Jonas, guys? I honestly don't remember. I think it was on a call about what we should call it. And we were thinking I'm originally calling it one of the early names of our band before Jonas Brothers.

This is how you guys remember it going down? Yes. I have a very different memory of this. We were talking about a thing, a bit for the podcast, where people could call in and say, hey, Jonas. And then I wrote down on my little notepad, Hey Jonas, and offered it up as a potential title for the podcast. But thanks for remembering that, guys. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it.

Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy. Not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel. Help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the Iheart radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Last night, a blown

call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines.

We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves, their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down,

give you context, and ask the questions everybody wants answered. SportsSlice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to SportsClace on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slices Life 12 in the TikTok podcast network on TikTok.

The French Open is one of the toughest tests in tennis. And I know firsthand because I competed there myself. I'm Renee Stubbs, and on the Renee Stubbs tennis podcast, I'm breaking down everything happening at Roland Garris. Every match, every upset, and what it really takes to win on Clay. Jenchian win. I mean, she went down in three to Rabakina, but I'm delighted. She's an outsider to win the French for me.

And she likes Clay. Listen, Lerabakina is arguably the best player in the world right now. And I actually can win on any surface. Because if she's serving, well, Good luck. Consider this your court side seat to the French Open. Listen to the Renee Stubbs tennis podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHeart Women's Sports. Well, Rachel Nichols has been covering the NBA since 1993, and we are watching an Indiana team fly through Milwaukee, Cleveland, the Knicks, and Rachel's now joining us live. Rach, I've said, I don't think this is an anti-Nicks series. I think what we're watching is an ascending superstar who put up a line last night that only Oscar Robertson is rivaled. I think we're watching the next great NBA player and because he's not vertical or doesn't drop 42.

We're not quite sure what to do with it, but it's a lot of Magic Johnson to me. Yeah, look, he is so much fun to watch, right? First of all, and he's the kind of guy that if your team wasn't playing against him, you'd want Tyrese Halliburton on your team. He plays the right way. Obviously, that stat line he put up last night to be able to do 30, 15, 10, no turnovers. I mean, it really is just absolutely crazy

what he was able to do. Plus, he's got the bravado, right? He's got the swag. He's got everything you want if you are a fan of basketball. And you're right. He makes the right plays. He does it the right way. He's not dropping 40 or 50 every night.

But if you like the game, you like the way Tyreys Halliburton plays ball. You know, one of the things, the advantage to losing a series is that you know your deficiencies. Okay, we don't do this well. And the Knicks front office has been really patient in this rebuild. And I don't think they need a ton, but it's pretty clear that Kat and Brunson, you know, many of Kat's best moments and when Brunson's not on the floor, because I think Brunson plays better with a catch and shoot guy like Kevin Durant.

So my take is it's nothing wrong with Cat and Brunson, but we do have a minus 24 when they're on the court together, and they're not great defensively. Do you think the KD thing, which it feels like he checks boxes, I get length, I get experience, I get catch and shoot. What do you make of the, just a suggestion of that? I mean, look, I assume then you mean you're swapping him out for Carl Anthony Town, so I'm not sure if the Knicks are going to want to do that,

just the year into the cat experiment. I think you hit it on the head when you talked about the plus. minus. The issue to me of Kat and Brunson on the floor together is not so much offensively, it's defensively. You've got two targets out there. I mean, you get to this level of the playoffs. When you get to the final four, this elite, elite level of basketball and shot making, you cannot have two targets out there at the same time. And that is the biggest lesson. I think the Knicks are going to learn from this as they go into the offseason. I would expect them to pursue guys who maybe aren't as big fancy names, but like a Walker Kessler from Utah,

somebody who can give them a little bit more of that presence without having to tear up the team they have because they like this team and they should like this team. This team got to the conference finals for the first time in that city in 25 years. I would not make huge changes, but I would clean up around the edges and that is one of the biggest places to me to clean up. So, listen, OKC is going to win this series. I don't think there's any question.

I said this yesterday. We forget that Ant is 23 years old and SGA is 26. and you can see it. It's like seeing Mahomes as a rookie and Mahomes in year five. He's way better pre-snap. He sees the field. I don't think, I think sometimes Ant can be a little collaborative. I think he should be a bit more aggressive. But what is your sort of take and what you're hearing about this series where he feels like, you know, not in SGA's league. Well, look, you nailed it. He's got two or three more years before he is where Seagel's Seagos-E-Gildress-Alexan. I should just say SGA, too, right? I'm going to say that.

he's got two four years before he's where SGA is as well. And we see it. And I think that he's going to learn this offseason to work on things like moving without the ball, right? More catch and shoot. Yes, you do have to be more aggressive to your point, even when the defense is smothering you and playing the anyone but you game. I think we are seeing Anthony Edwards develop. And the reason we are so excited about him is that he has the talent, he has the drive, He has all of the moves in his bag, and he obviously has the personality to be a huge superstar in this league. And our excitement about that, we can't forget that he is not yet where we are projecting him to be. The reason we're excited is because he's not there yet, because we know he can do more than this.

So let's let him do it before we declare a kid who's 23 years old and has been in the Western Conference finals now for two consecutive seasons of failure in some way, which is what you're starting to hear around the sort of blogosphere. And I just don't get it. This kid has delivered everything you could ask for. And I promise you he will get better. I promise you he is going to continue to grow. So I want to go, I want to segue back to the Pacers and the Knicks because, listen, the Pacers are 11 and 0 in every playoff game, not game three, meaning they go into Milwaukee,

win two, lose game three. They go into Cleveland, win two, lose game three. Same with New York. So to me, game three when you're up to O, when you've stolen two road games, it's, it's, foot off the gas. Like this team, to me, in the most important games, starting a series and ending it, they're undefeated. It's insane what they're doing.

And I look at outside of Miles Turner, their cap sheet, very clean. And, you know, is Indiana a team? I mean, I got to tell you, when I watch Halliburton, he doesn't even lead the Pacers in usage rate, like totally attractive if I'm a shit. shooter to play with Halliburton. Will they be active, you believe, in a trade or free agency? Look, they've done a great job building that team around him. So I think, yeah, they will continue to try to do that. But what we're seeing with all of these final four teams now is really smart front offices that have built teams the right way. We killed the Knicks for years, right, about all their

bad free office, front agency and front office moves. Leon Rose comes in. They've built a very smart team. Tim Conley in Minnesota, one of the best team builders out there. Sam Presti, Oklahoma City, won executive of the year multiple times. These are well-built teams and organizations. And for all of the chatter that you and I are going to talk this summer about trades and free agency and all of that stuff and the big names and who goes where, it's the organizations who know how to build a complete squad, a squad that can go 10-deep the way the Pacers can legitimately, not like fake 10-deep. You'll see that in Oklahoma City, too, if these are the two teams that get to the finals. These are teams, man.

And I think especially in an age with, you know, multiple aprons and salary caps and CBAs, you need a full, complete team because you can't just build on stars in the same way anymore. Finally, Austin Reeves agent came out and said, you better stop talking about trading him for second-tier centers. Obviously, the game playing, you know, is starting for, but it does lead, it does lead me to believe that his agents talking about it, so he's come to terms with they are considering moving him. Yeah. What are the chances? Would they, you know, these days, the free agency feels more dead.

Everybody gets traded. They sign the max, then you move them. If Austin Reeves, do you believe he'll be a Laker after the trade deadline next year? After the trade deadline next year? Look, I think they're going to have to probably give up Austin Reeves to get what they need, which is an interior defense presence, preferably someone who can rim run, right, the way Derek lively did with Luca when they were in Dallas. And they also need more 3-&D wings.

So to get all of that stuff, I don't think that, Austin Reeves can stay in your asset coffers, but I don't know if it's going to happen this summer. We'll have to see what Rob Polinka can do. There was a lot of criticism sort of of the Lakers and the Lakers construction and the way the team was after that first round series and the way they lost that series. I don't think that's fair because when you get the chance to make the Luka Dantja trade, and then you make the Luka Dantza trade and then you figure it all out later. Well, the figuring it all out later comes this summer. It didn't come a few weeks ago. It didn't come at the trade deadline. That was just about getting Luca. But this summer, they have got to.

figure it out and they have to put players around him, around Luca that fit better, that fit around an aging LeBron and Austin Reeves, unfortunately, as well like to see that organization and they love him there. I do think he will probably end up having to give him up to get the other pieces you need and you need him. You can't waste this. You got Luca Donchitz dropped in your lap. Yeah, and you can have Janus in the West as well. Rachel Nichols, as always great senior age. Thanks. Thanks. Yeah, you know, it's we've done this before where we watch. watch, like I watched the Denver Nuggets. I was a total sucker. I'm like, they're going to reel off four.

Like I, there are certain teams like when the Warriors won with Andrew Wiggins beat the Celtics, you're like, that's the last one. They're not going to win another one. Um, love Jimmy Butler, but they're not built to win a championship. But I watched the Celtics with Tatum and I'm like, oh, they got a couple in them. And then they don't. And then all of a sudden they have a new owner and they're up against the cap. And you're like, yeah, that this thing may not end as well as we think. I watched Denver. I fell for it. I don't look at OKC. think they're going to win six because I think eventually Janice is going to go to Houston or San Antonio and block that or Golden State.

But I look at Indy and I'm like, yeah, I can see Halliburton putting up Oscar Robertson numbers. Everybody's looking at OKC, but Boston's not going to be as good next year. New York isn't clearly as good. Cleveland isn't good. Milwaukee isn't good. How do we know that Indy from the much easier east isn't the dynasty team. I'm watching them. Guys, they're 11 and 0. To Milwaukee, 2-0. To Cleveland, 2-0.

To New York, 2-0. That's unheard of. That's not the way it works. And Halliburton's putting up Oscar Robertson numbers. We all believe like Oklahoma City is going to win seven. What if Wembe goes to San Antonio? Or Houston. Or Golden State.

Well, then Oklahoma City, it's just going to be really, really good teams. Very good teams, each getting a shot at it. Like Denver, very good deep. Minnesota, I can see them all winning one. In the East, I could see Indy ruling it for a while. That's how good Halliburton is. Hour three, Bruce Feldman stops by. Hey, guys, it's us.

The Jonas Brothers. I'm Joe. I'm Kevin. And I'm Nick. And guess what? We created our own podcast called, Hey, Jonas. We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to a...

We're the first people to do podcasts. We get to ask other people questions because we're sick and tired of being asked questions. Well, sick and tired is a strong way to put it, but, you know... Tired and sick. Tired and sick. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, S&L's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel, help an acapella band with their between songs banter.

Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What's up, fam? It's Isaiah Thomas. And I'm C.J. Toledano. It's our favorite time of the year on our podcast point game, the playoffs.

We're digging into the biggest surprises of the season. And I'm looking back on some of my greatest playoff. on this. If we didn't talk ever again, I was finding it. You just understood. That's how personal it got. Wow. Then after that game seven, Mark keep coming to you. He's like, you know, I love you, dog. You know, it's all love. This was just playoffs. This was just basketball. So listen to Point Game on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Every family has its secrets. But what happens when you discover that your dad has been living a double life? That is not the look of an innocent man. Is everyone lying to me about who they are?

I felt such desperation. I felt it was what I had to do. Listen to Deep Cover the Family Man on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed human.