The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Hour 2 - John Calipari

Episode Date: April 10, 2024

More college athletes are deciding to stay in school because of NIL John Calipari is officially out as the Kentucky head coach   Guest: Ethan StraussSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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However you may be listening, thanks for making us part of your day. Best coaching college basketball, certainly an argument, Dan Hurley last hour. And before we get to Ethan Strauss, who does remarkable work, Substack and Podcast, he's going to talk about House of Strauss is what it's called. I'm a diehard. He's going to talk about Caitlin Clark, the rise. of women's basketball. By the way, men's basketball did not get the women's number,

but men's college basketball had a very good tournament as well. It was the rise of college basketball, which certainly on the men's side feels like sort of a lighter, diminished, diluted product since one and done where he took over the sport about 10, 15 years ago. So we'll get to that in a second. J. Mack, so you and I remember that dynasty of which, for the record, Ethan Strauss wrote that book, The Victory Machine, the making and unmaking of the world. champion warriors dynasty, right? Oh, the KD. So he knows all about it.

Well, KD had that year, about 20, was it 19, when he was fighting through all those injuries, and then they got him back. He had a bunch of injuries, lower body, you know, injuries. They got him back into the playoffs. He tore his Achilles, and that was the beginning of the end of KD. So I just want you to think about because what was happening before that? He was bristling a little. There were some personality conflicts.

There was a lot of pressure now to win another championship. sort of like Yanos, who this year has had several lower body injuries. They rush him back. He got injured last night just walking up the floor. And you only get to be Superman so long in this league. Okay, he gave us eight years of the cape, or he was never hurt. So this year and last year, Janus is getting banged up. Like KD, he's got a title.

Like KD, feel like they're forcing him back. And remember, this. This team may be a two seed in the east. They're 15 and 14 against the West, and they're trying to get titles. So I'm going to throw it out there. They've given up their first round picks, either because of pick swaps or they had to get Dame or Drew Holiday. So they don't really have first round picks. And it's an old roster where Bobby Portis is the kid and he's 29.

So let me ask you again. The Sixers get Embed. They're not beaten Boston. The Sixers get in beat. I take the Sixers. They hopefully get the Cavs. They don't want Miami. so does it look like a little like KD

where we perceive it nice guy ascending player gets a title or two and then there's pressure his personality a little snippy not necessarily comfortable you're hearing things they rush him back in a very pivotal year gets hurt and

it all changes there's probably something there I just, and Strauss can talk about it at length, but the Kevin Durant angle that he couldn't deal with was he went to a team that had beaten him the year before and it wasn't quote unquote his team. They were Steph Curry's team. And KD has those rabbit ears where he hears

and reads my Instagram stuff and has issues. I don't know that Janus is letting the fans. I would say Janus hears things too. Oh. Remember when he came Greece, he's a good kid. He just, he'll see him. McDonald's on the IG, he's one of the people, and then he gets coaches fired, and another, and they move Drew Holiday, the Hail Mary for Dame. I like Janus, but he's now been westernized.

He wants titles. They have no first-round picks. It's an old roster. How do you do a reboot? Nobody wants old, average, expensive guys. The only way out to get more titles for Janus, to me, is leave. This roster needs remaking. They don't have the picks. Who are they going to move outside of Yannis to get anybody? Nobody's giving anything up for Bobby Portis, older dame. So, I mean, you're in that you're trapped. I would agree.

Yeah, he needs to get out to win. And if they get bounced early by Philly or Miami, then it gets louder. DefConn won for sure in Milwaukee. Listen, the Warriors will take him. You can have five first round picks and Jonathan Camingo. My Knicks have them put together a better package. No, I think if I was New York, I would go all in New York. And then you've got Brunson, Anerobie, and Janus as like a big three.

No. I don't disagree with it. All right. He wrote the victory machine, the making and making of the Warriors dynasty. House of Strauss is his podcast. Ariadite, smart, self-aware. We love Ethan Strauss. So let's go to that because you were covering that Warriors team.

And you could feel it before it happened. Draymond, first of all, is confrontational. KD's not. So that wasn't perfect. Kerr can use volume. He can be confrontational. So before, do you remember that 2019 year? Did you feel like there was pressure and they were rushing KD back a little?

I felt like they were. I felt like he wanted to come back because if you remember Colin, what happened when he was out, certainly they wanted him to return. But the warriors just got more beloved without him. It was what so many basketball. fans wanted. They wanted a team where it didn't feel stacked, where it didn't feel decadent. And I believe if they had pulled it off and they had won without him, which they still could have done potentially, if not for Clay Thompson tearing his ACL, it would have been a bit of a

mark against him. So there was this external pressure. I know he would disagree. I know he would say that we're full of it, that he just wanted to return because he wanted to return. But there was a lot of outside noise. And it's very difficult to know what the right decision should have been, but it did not feel like the right decision, even if when he had just drained a bunch of three-pointers and the Warriors were up on the Raptors in his return game, a championship felt so inevitable. And man, I've never seen a stadium more despondent than that Toronto crowd at that moment before it all came undone for the Warriors. So we both watched women's college basketball. Now, I've made the argument that the ratings were massive in 83, but the quality of

the product was not as good. So when Cheryl Miller jettison college basketball, it went back to being really a second-class citizen compared to other basketball like NBA or men's college basketball. But the quality of women's basketball now is very good, generations of young ladies being encouraged to be athletes, the system is better, the play is significantly better. But it is a phenomenon. Caitlin Clark is a phenom, and phenoms like Tiger and MJ, trees don't grow to the sky. I think it will come down. Let's start with this, though, Ethan, because this is the kind of thought piece that you specialize in. Why did we see such a massive surge this year with Caitlin? Well, I think they were in the right position for it to happen. It was it was Caitlin Clark.

What did you say that it wasn't that she was riding a wave or they were riding a wave? Or they were riding a wave, she was the wave. I mean, it's incredible. Those final four games, the one that featured her, got twice as many viewers as the other one against it. So there's a huge component of it being her. But if you look at women's college basketball, it's been very stable in its viewership, where the final gets around $5 million, $6 million for years and years and years, as a lot of other properties and leagues are declining of popularity. I think it has an advantage over some of these other leagues. One of them is the familiarity factor, where the women stay four years because the salaries in the WMBA are comparatively meager, and then we get used to them,

and they become these brands. And that's something that you don't even see certainly as much in the men's college game because of won and done, but also obviously in the NBA in the player empowerment era, where we've seen so many guys, Kyrie Irving, what team Zion, James Hardin, bouncing around. Kauai Leonard. They're all men without a country. And then speaking of country, column, I think this is the most underrated factor in my opinion. I think it's underrated because the people who make decisions, executives, they're not the most nationalist people. They travel a lot. Their passports are well used. But a lot of people in the United States, the country, nationhood, these things matter to them. And these players in women's college basketball are by and

large from America. And there are tradeoffs. It's no slight. It's not Yokic's fault that he's a prodigy and he's from Eastern Europe, but there's a barrier of entry. It's harder to get to know him for the American customer than it is to get to know Caitlin Clark. So I think those factors, the familiarity factor and also just the American factor. Those are two that are differentiating it and helping it have this huge moment with Caitlin Clark. Yeah, no, we largely agree. It's, you know, it's interesting how NIL and the transfer portal were seen as sort of enemies of college sports. I would argue, I saw a story today where the Ravens General Manager, the Baltimore Raven GM, Eric Dacosta said the NIL is actually going to keep college players in college longer. And I thought, what a win for college football that NFL guys are going to stay in college.

And I think actually, and this is the way the world works, change freaks people out. And so initial reaction to changes, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, I don't like. I can remember when the speed limit changing was a national discussion for a year and a half. And so when you look at the transfer portal in the NIL, could you argue the NIL will save college basketball, not hurt it? I think you could certainly argue that. You want it maybe to be a little less player empowerment-esque in the NBA. You don't want guys changing teams all the time. But I think the payment, I think, has been good.

I think it's professionalized it. I think a lot of people, as you were saying, were freaked out about the whole thing and it was all going to come unraveled. It's been the opposite. Nobody, Colin, five years ago, would have predicted this college football boom. I don't think anybody was saying, you know, the sport of the future, it's college football. And yet it seems to be happening. Even with the dissolution of all these conferences and things people hold dear, they're really into it. And I think the increased professionalization for whatever reason has worked for college football.

It's worked for women's basketball. And I do think it's worked for men's basketball as well. I think the narrative is a little bit off. Yeah, the women's game got viewed more than the men's game. It means something. But then again, the men's game was on cable TV. The women's game was on network TV. I think college basketball right now, it's fine.

And it might be in a good spot currently to grow and to harness some of this new world order that they've created with NIL. You know, Michael Jordan smartly or not was apolitical. Whereas LeBron, and maybe it's a cultural change or just his personality, he was very reticent to go into politics. If you read early book, Jeff Benedict, a book, Don LeBron. He didn't want to go into politics. And then the Trump stuff happened. And he did. But he's a little more political, more willing to engage in.

racial discussions. And because that's polarizing, he'll never be quite as popular or worshipped, I believe, as MJ, although I think he basically, as a basketball player, does virtually everything better or at a higher level. And it's interesting. So there's this polarize, magic wasn't polarizing. I don't think Dr. Jay was. MJ wasn't. Shack wasn't. LeBron is. And so when his son announces he may enter the NBA draft, there's pushback. And my argument this week is, you ever seen a plumbing truck? They always say Johnson and Sons, this is what we do. When I started a business, I leaned into friends and people I knew. I'm not bothered in the weakest draft in years taking brawny, if you're the Lakers at 55, an athletic young guy who can shoot a little.

How do you think it'll play if it happens? Yeah, I think that's a great point, by the way. And I think the media hasn't exactly been honest. And this is going to be the theme of our discussion, Colin, is tradeoffs, right? You can internationalize your game as the NBA and MLB have and get more popular around the world, but the tradeoff is maybe Americans aren't going to like it as much. You can be political. Maybe that's what you fervently believe, and you feel like it's your moral duty.

But the tradeoff is you might not be as popular. I don't think the media has been honest about it. And that's a factor we didn't even mention with Caitlin Clark, where she's been tap dancing through a rainstorm without getting wet, being a neutral party and not commenting on anything particularly fraud. and it seems like there's a hunger for that out there, and a lot of people want that kind of thing. LeBron wasn't that exactly.

He got into the culture war at a very heightened time. And I think even worse than that, this is a subtle point. I just don't think he was very good at it. I think that other people who got into that space just seemed like they were more authentic and they had more to say. And it almost seemed like it was a way of trying to leapfrog Mike by being more important and being more like Ali. And this is what I heard from people around Nike.

and it seemed like a marketing ploy. And so not only did you have people offended because they're just going to be offended on the basis of politics, there was an aspect of fakeness to it. And then it leads to what you're talking about, which is people start getting mad at you for things that ordinarily they might shrug off and not care about, such as your son being a second round or whatever and joining the team. Look, it's weird. I don't think it's any occasion to be angry about it.

I just think it's a very odd story if his son isn't up to the NBA level and he's on an NBA team, but it certainly doesn't morally offend me. I want to go back finally because you're really good at Kevin Durant, and Kevin would get upset with you, but I always feel like Kevin actually is paying you respect when he acknowledges you, because that means he read you and he's not brushing you off. And Durant is often said he likes to go into battles on Twitter. He likes to connect with people. And so last night, the sons were down 35 to 4 at home.

That's like a high school mismatch. And years ago, when people got into this, KD is better than LeBron, I said, timeout. To me, LeBron is foundational, whereas KD is just a beautiful new kitchen. They're both great. But one guy I can build completely around offense, defense, coaching, leadership, calling you at home, leader on the plane. Another guy is just a shot maker. The Phoenix story for both J. Mack and I, we both whiffed on it. Did you have a sense that despite Booker and Beal and KD, did you have a sense it wouldn't be as rosy as many of us projected it would be?

It's funny. In a way, it's even rosier than I thought it would be. I thought it would be far more contentious. And there would be a lot more drama. In a way, it just seems like there's not a lot of drama. The OnCourt product is what's disappointing out there. And yeah, it's one of these mercenary squads. And this gets into the broader conversation about the NBA. Not only do the organic teams, the drafted cores, that's what people want to see. I also think that's typically what's better. You know, there are exceptions.

We can find them. But the Suns squad, it just feels a little bit too much like pickup basketball. Yeah. I don't know. Nobody held a gun to my head and asked for any sort of prediction on the Suns, but I would say that I am not surprised by the difficulties they're having. And if anything, they've exceeded expectations in certain respects, such as Kevin Durant's level of play at this age after the injuries.

It's incredible, but it's no surprise to me that the whole is not greater than the sum of its parts. I think that was almost guaranteed even this whole thing came together. So it's called House of Strauss, Google it, look it up. I am a listener regularly, always engaged. very thoughtful. We love bringing him on. Ethan Strauss, who is a guy that never stops working or thinking, and it's good seeing you again, my man. Oh, it's excellent seeing you, Colin.

Thanks so much. Ethan Strauss. It's interesting. Sometimes we believe that all great athletes are great leaders, and I always felt like Jeter had great leadership skills. A-Rob was just a great athlete. Doesn't mean he couldn't lead, but it never felt quite nice. natural or organic to him. May have been if you went and looked at how they were raised, their families.

Jeter came from a very formidable background. Maybe that helped. Same with, you know, I do think it matters. Peyton Manning's one of the great leaders of all time. Dad played in the NFL, very close family. Some of that stuff I think really matters. But like not all great players are great leaders. They can just get your buckets.

And I always felt KD is that. It's not a criticism. It's a reality. And he doesn't, you know, maybe he doesn't even watch me. He does DM J-Mack, but do you also, what do they call that? Oh, you tag him. You put the little. When I talk about him on the podcast, I'll tag him and, you know, give quick preview for everybody.

And then within like 30 minutes, KD's like, what the hell are you talking about? You're a buffoon. But you know what? He actually told me I looked like a drama major. I was like, I'm never acted in anything, but I love sports. Well, I saw the picture of you with two earrings. Just relax. That was, you know, it was like 10 years ago in college times two.

Was that in college, by the way? Of course, yeah. Come on, you've got to look the part. You were unhirable at that point. Listen, I went to spring break with the family last week. Spring break in college, I can still vividly remember like 10 hours of it from the whole week. You came back shockingly disappointed with vacation. I don't want to talk about it.

No, vacation was fine. There was a certain individual there who's famous and an idiot. And I'm just disappointed that I had to almost share a hot tub with this clown. But overall, it was a good vacation. That's going to aggregate. Don't say that stuff on hair. Come on. I got way too many people who, well, we know the audience is growing for the show,

but I got a lot of family members who listen, and I don't need to answer these questions. You put it off. Long it off. One more herd? The herd streams 24 hours a day, seven days a week, within the IHard Radio app. Search herd to listen live or on demand whenever you'd like.

Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth.

Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skis. the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined.

And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So, if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to The Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Hey, this is Robert from the Stuff to Blow Your Mind podcast. Joe and I are both lifelong Star Wars. fan, so we're celebrating May the 4th with a brand new week of fun, thought-provoking Star Wars-related episodes. Join us as we tackle science and culture topics from a galaxy far, far away, such as the biology of taun tons and wampas on the ice planet hot, or the practicality and corporate business sense of the Sith rule of two. Listen to stuff to blow your mind on the IHeart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. By the way, we were talking about this with Ethan Strauss. Eric DeCosta, the GM of the Baltimore Raven said the NIL and the NCAA rule changes mean more draftable players are staying in college.

That is really good for college football. That means guys that could play in the NFL will stay in college so you get quality, better product. I mean, if more guys in college, if Zach Edy was coming back for another year of college, that would be a big win for college basketball. Caitlin Clark coming back. She was good enough last year to play in the WNBA. then she comes back and dominates the sport another year. So college football, and this is sort of a cautionary tale, don't overreact to stuff. Like just don't overreact as a general rule.

The last 12 months of college football have been great for the sport. Texas, Oklahoma, going from the smaller profile of the Big 12, joining the bigger profile of the SEC is great for the sport. USC, Washington, Oregon, UCLA, smaller profile. profile pack 12 dissolving into the big 10, a much bigger profile. Great for the sport. Four team playoff about to be a 12 team playoff. Even the transfer portal. Ooh, bad for the sport.

About 8 to 10 guys per team transfer. You have 85 scholarships. 75 guys stay. The bottom line, it does allow big brands like an LSU to rebuild more quickly than years previous. That's a good sign. The NIL is now becoming good news. Everybody's fearful of change.

College football, according to the people of this network that are paid to predict the ratings, they're telling me next year is going to be up 10 to 15 percent. Now, Michigan won't be as good. Ohio State, though, will be better. Maybe Oklahoma's not as good. Texas should be better. Maybe Washington's not as good. Oregon, USC should be better.

So it's, you know, everybody, nobody likes change and everybody freaks out. But if you really look at the NIL, the transfer portal, the playoff, PAC 12's top four brands moving into the Big Ten, Texas, Oklahoma moving into the SEC. These are not killing college football, which many of you claimed. They are going to elevate it by 10 to 15 percent minimum in the ratings. By the way, the women. ratings as Ethan Strauss said. Why did they go up?

Continuity. Big brands. Like Texas and Sark this year. Sark got close. Here comes Sark again. That's going to be a big story. All right? Take a deep breath.

Everything new isn't bad. College football's had a great 12 months and you're going to see it pop by Labor Day. J. Mack with the news. No. No. Turn on the news. This is the herd line news. Let's start with somebody who left college football for the pros.

Jim Harbaugh. He is now with the Chargers. And according to a pretty cool report, he's bringing some college tactics with him. So, Colin, apparently Jim Harbaugh has made some changes to the Chargers locker room adding each player's recruiting level from high school to their nameplates, ranging from unranked to five star. The pushback has been that this is only going to work in college. This won't work in the pros where guys make a lot.

lot of money. But Harbaugh has been with the Niners before. I just like different and change. And anything Harbaugh is doing that wasn't what his predecessors were doing, for me, is a big one. We know Staley Struggle and Anthony. Why wouldn't that work at the pro level to college? Are players not inspired or driven? Well, you know that whole theory that you can do the raw, raw stuff in college that works to get teenagers and 21-year-olds all excited. That don't work with 25-year-olds. They want to be shown the money in the pros. Well, college football increasingly. Guys want to be shown the money. So college football, the NBA looks like a different sport than college basketball.

By the way, that's a great point. Did you see that Purdue game? Purdue, Connecticut? That was not what the Warriors and Lakers were playing. That's a totally different sport. College baseball doesn't look anything close to Major League Baseball, which is highly international. College football in the NFL are very similar. Many of the same offenses, many of the same schemes.

Because you stay in college for three and four years, you walk into the NFL and are immediately productive. when you watch Texas play Washington or you watch, you know, Alabama play Michigan, you're looking at 20 guys they're going to play in the NFL the next year. In college basketball, we're not sure Zach Eadie's going to get drafted in the first round. So the truth is, the stronger or closer your college system looks compared vis-a-vis to your pro system or pro league, the more popular it is. In college football, stuff that works at college works in the NFL. Andy Reid steals stuff from college all the time.

Yeah. Well, plays are one thing, letting the whole locker room know, hey, this guy was a five-star. Imagine, listen, how's a guy like Bosa? Gonna handle some of this? Like, five-star, one of the highest paid, and dude. Stop being so fragile. Always hurt. Play hurt.

Well, I'm... We'll see. I think Harbao's going to rankle some people. This is not going to be for everyone, right? You know this. Yeah, but this is... New Sheriff in town. It's not the NBA.

Players get rankled. Players get removed. The coach runs the show. Successful. NFL coaches run the show. Mike Tomlin's running it in Pittsburgh. It's not the players. So, yeah, Doc Rivers takes over in Milwaukee. Biron Fist. Yeah, that's not working, Doc. It doesn't work. Jim Harbaugh comes in. He's had a lot of success everywhere he's going. I've seen his contract. I mean, you've read it online. They moved off Keenan Allen and

Mike Williams. They're not moving off Harbaugh. Let's stick heading into the draft here. Next story. A lot of noise that the Giants are going to draft a quarterback at 6. So they're bringing in guys. They're talking to guys. But according to friend of the show, Albert Breer. He spoke to Giants GM, Joe Shane, who says New York is not locked into drafting a quarterback as they have many other needs. If the quarterbacks go one to four,

then we're getting the second best position player, not a quarterback. I was told by an NFL person, Friday or Saturday, that the New York Giants, more than any team in the top 10, had the most situational draft, that if Drake Mayer,

or Jaden Daniels falls to them, they suspect the Giants would take them. If both are gobbled up and Marvin Harrison fell, they would take him. They need a receiver. Also, if the top two receivers and the two quarterbacks they like are gone or three, they will move down potentially. He said the New York Giants are going to be patient and just watch the first five picks in front of them. They have not, he was told this, in the room in New York, they have not made a decision. They are open to anything. It's all circumstance based, which for the giants, which

have multiple needs, is the way to approach this draft. So here's how I viewed this, Colin. A lot of, this is the silly season, smokescreen season, right? A lot of rumors or this person said this, a source here, this is the GM coming out and saying quotes. Like, you don't see that a lot. I wonder, I'm going to bounce this off you. A lot of quarterback smoke around the Giants. Daniel Jones, what the heck is going on here? I'm injured for one year and they want to move. Do you think there's a little job of appeasing Daniel Jones here?

Hey, we invested in you. Don't listen to all this stuff about a quarterback. We're going to handle the draft like grown adults. We're not just going to reach for a quarterback. What would you do? You run the Giants. What would you do? Wait, was I the one who gave Daniel Jones.

Well, I would move back and get a quarterback. I think you can move back and still get Bo Nix or Michael Pennick. Sure, but who's trading up for Joe Alt or Romadoo? I don't know that you trade up for Romadou. All right. I don't know that Giants are in a great spot. But I do think that they have three needs. They have three to four needs just on offense.

Well, did you see the report that Darren Waller now may just retire? Apparently he wants to go into music? Well, if you even consider that, I'm moving on at tight end. I would draft another tight end. I mean, so now you got another need. I mean, they got needs all over the place. If I considered acting, if I started talking about acting, Fox should probably find another hope. I've been talking about screenplays for a while.

Well, that's different. You can do that at home. That's different than like going to acting class. In my spare time, yeah, yeah. All right, final story is, let's go to what are your favorite players in the league. Jalen Brunson, dropped 45 last night. He is so good. 40-point game and the next one over the Bulls.

Oh. With the win, the Knicks are in third in the east. I know it. Third. Well, that tells you what a great leader is. Because they don't have, this team is a lot of just guys and Jalen Brunson. Now that Randall's out. Yeah, it's kind of a bummer Randall's out because we know their ceiling is limited without him.

But this is Brunson's 10th 40-point game of the season. Joining Bernard King and Patrick Ewing is the only Knicks players with multiple streaks of 40-point games in a season. I told you, when I went and saw him Friday in Chicago, when you go to NBA games, you do notice little things that you wouldn't notice watching on TV. He is even quicker in person. You can't stay in front of him. He's so, he's got great, great finishing package, great handles. Excellent first step.

He is really clever in person. Easy to root for. I'm surprised. We're joining Bernard King and Patrick Ewing. No Carmelo Anthony, huh? Bernard King, arguably second most underrated player in league history after Gus Williams. Gus Williams and Bernard King. Excuse, Gus Williams, a point card?

Oh, he was great. Settled down. What? Oh, he was unbelievable player. I mean, Jalen Brunson or Gus Williams. Don't you dare say Gus Williams? Come on. Gus Williams won a title.

For two years. Was he the best player on that team? I don't know if I was born yet. Gus Williams was the best player on that team. The 70s NBA count? Lonnie Shelton, John Johnson, Marvin West. It's not even the modern error. Did they have three pointers back there?

Come on. Was there a shot clock? Lenny Wilkins, Wally Walker. Lenny Wilkins is a coach? Downtown Freddie Brown. Oh, I know that name. Yeah, and by the way, the ball went through the net. It wasn't a basket.

It wasn't a peach basket. It was a net. Jeez. The Knicks aren't the biggest threat to the Celtics in the East right now. No, but Brunson's fantastic. He's fun to watch. Okay, if I gave you the four, okay, I'm going to give you the five biggest stars in Nick's history.

In order or no way? No, no, I'm going to give it. And then you give me in order. Sorry to bother. Just give me four because Patrick Ewing's in there. Walt Frazier. Clyde Frazier and? Walt Frazier.

Who was better than Monroe? I'm not going to do Willis Reed. Walt Frazier, Ewing, Mello, and Jalen Brunson. Wait a minute. Who are they? In order. Jeremy Litt. He was good for an hour.

The Charles Brewell? Come on. Okay. I'm trying to joke around. There's other, Larry Johnson was there. I'm talking the foremost. So if I said Frasier, Ewing, Mello, and Brunton in order. I would go Ewing, Brunson, Frazier, Mello.

What about Bernard King? Let's do five then. I mean, just hyping up Bernard King's game was great. How about this, Trent Tucker? Oh, gosh. I love it. Okay, so what would you do?

You know, I'm telling you. I love Mello. I was the biggest Mello fan when he was in Syracuse. Didn't love what happened with the Knicks, so I would have him later in the top five. I think Ewing has to be won into just a force of nature. After that, Bernard King was the best pure score to meet. Mello left so many points.

He didn't make anyone else better. That would hurt the most. But I got to tell you something. Jalen Brunson now. Brunson over Mello. For me, absolutely. Yeah. Sorry.

Trent Tucker. It's funny. The NBA, like, former players love Carmel. I saw a video some guys like, Carmelo Anthony is a better score than KD. That's why players aren't general managers. Players love a lot of players. They're into a lot of guys.

Kyrie Irving and Carmelo Anthony. That's who they love. Jay Mack with a news. Well, that's the news. And thanks for stopping by. The Herd Lye News. Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays in noon Eastern, 9 a.m. Pacific on Fox Sports Radio, FS1, and the IHeart Radio app.

Hey, we're Kavino and Rich. Fox Sports Radio every day, 5 to 7 p.m. Eastern. But here's the thing. We never have enough time to get to everything we want to get to. And that's why we have a brand new podcast called Overpromised. You see, we're having so much fun in our two-hour show. We never get to ever. everything. Honestly, because this guy is overpromising things we never have time for. Yeah,

you blubber lips. Blame and me. Well, you know what? It's called over-promise. You should be good at it because you've been over-promising women for years. Well, it's a Kavino and Rich after show, and we want you to be a part of it. We're going to be talking sports, of course, but we're also going to talk life and relationships. And if Rich and I are arguing about something or we didn't have enough time, it will continue on our after show called Over-Promised. Well, if you don't get enough, Kavino and Rich, make sure you check out Over-Promise. and also uncensored, by the way. So maybe we'll go at it even a little harder.

It's going to be the best after-show podcast of all time. There you go. Over-promising. And remember, you could see it on YouTube, but definitely join us. Listen to Overpromised with Kavino and Rich on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games.

Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's super. Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win.

A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement

to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life,

mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space. for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,

or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Hey, this is Robert from the Stuff to Blow Your Mind podcast. Joe and I are both lifelong Star Wars fan, so we're celebrating May the 4th with a brand new week of fun thought-provoking Star Wars-related episodes. Join us as we tackle science and culture topics from a galaxy far, far away,

such as the biology of taun tons and wampas on the ice planet hot, or the practicality and corporate business sense of the Sith rule of two. Listen to Stuff to Bo Your Mind on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Saturday on FS1, a bitter rivalry is brewing in the lone star state. Now Corey Seeger and the reigning champion Rangers battle Jose Altuve and the Astros. It all begins at 4 Eastern on F.S.1. Best coach, Arbubli, in college basketball.

College sports is Dan Hurley at Yukon. He'll join us next hour. So John Calipari is officially out at Kentucky, his choosing, although nobody in the booster or athletic department is probably losing sleep. He was very successful early, not as successful as many thought he should be, but he was successful. You know, if you go back through the years, I've always had sort of a mantra. It's not about being right. It's about getting it right. So if I find new information, I've got new opinions. But there have been five or six athletes that I have gone against

the grain of public sentiment. Y'all love Carmelo Anthony. And I'd said from the very beginning, he's not a winning player. I was right. He's not a winning player. I said, Johnny Mansell, who was on Skip today. I said, that's not an NFL quarterback. Nick Sabin said he was. I said he's not. Tim Tebow, the country went bananas. They went nuts. They went crazy. I said, it's never going to last. You know, Baker Mayfield, I thought was a draftable quarterback. He was a reach. I wouldn't have drafted him because I thought he wasn't ready for the NFL, kind of the maturity stuff. But he's a good football player. But I thought he was a reach at number one, and it would sort of unravel. His personality would unravel. And I was right. Russell Westbrook,

when he was winning MVP, I said, that's all stats. He doesn't make teammates better. he's hard to play with. So I think eventually on the five or six or seven times that I've been against the grain, I think mostly overwhelmingly I've been right. I've had bad days, bad segments. I've been wrong individually on stuff. But I spent a lot of time on all those athletes. Somebody else I've pushed back on is John Calipari.

In recent years, I called it John Caliponzi. It feels like a scheme. And the reason I said that was, is that when there's a fine line. between salesmen and coach in college sports. Every coach, every level, softball, swimming. You got to be a salesman because the players are selecting you. You're not drafting them. Coach K, Dan Hurley, Bill Self, Jay Wright, Tom Isso.

They all got to sell. But at their core, their coaches, 75%, and salesman, 25%. I felt with Calipari, the scales were the opposite. Everything was a sales job. Every press conference, pregame, post game, losing. And I really felt strongly about my position about five years ago when I thought he couldn't even get his sales pitch right. Because he was struggling in the tournament, he started downplaying it. Hey, I'm not here just to win.

Winning is not why I'm here. I'm here to make these kids rich. Excuse me? No, Nick Saban made the money because he won titles. When you lose, when you're not a great coach, you're fine. and you're a salesman and you can't get the sales pitch right. You know, it's not about March. Yes, it is completely.

That's why you're leaving a better job for lesser job. If you were winning in March, you wouldn't be leaving. It's about winning in March. Stop projecting that you're making kids rich. You're a pit stop in their life. They'd get rich without you. You can be better than other coaches, but when he got the sales pitch wrong, then I knew he was in trouble.

Because that was always his strength. He had a pitch. He had a pitch. And now he's leaving a great job for an okay job. Arkansas basketball is, you know, radar barely picks it up. It is what it is. It's okay. It's not top 10.

It's not top 15. You know, it is what it is. And John, who's no dummy, who's not a terrible coach, who is an elite recruiter, although I would argue, is he developing players or recruiting. You can argue both sides. Here was his pitch on leaving Kentucky. This is a dream job. It was my dream job. The last few weeks, we've come to realize that this program probably needs to hear another voice. And the fans need to hear another voice. We've loved it here. But we think it's time.

for us to step away. For the record, he will succeed at Arkansas. He will win at Arkansas. He'll land top recruits at Arkansas. There's a lot of money in Arkansas. There's a lot, two or three major corporations. There are a lot, they've got three mega boosters in Arkansas. Two you've heard of, one you haven't.

The one you haven't had a falling out with Musselman, the previous coach. He ended up at USC. So that's why Musselman left. It wasn't because he wasn't winning or wasn't a great coach. He had a falling out with one of the big basketball. basketball boosters. And John can schmooze, he can recruit, it'll be great, he'll win games. But again, the reason the great coaches like Sabin, Dabo Sweeney, the reason they endure and last because they're more coach than sales guy. It is okay after you lose a game to say, this hurts,

I'm paid to win in March, and I'm losing to St. Peters. This is totally on me. It was a bad coaching job. No need to project. No need to say it's, I feel bad for the kids. No, you don't. You feel bad for you because you're going to get heat from your athletic director and your boosters. It's bad for you, not the kids. The kids are going to go on to the NBA and get rich. You losing in March is not bad for the kids. It's bad for you. And it's okay to say that. It's okay to show pain. It's okay to to hurt. It's okay to lose, but acknowledge it. Don't come up with a sales pitch eight minutes later in the post-game press conference. I'm not anti-Calapari,

but I think he tips the scales on the salesman stuff to the coach stuff. And if you want to endure at any level of college coaching, coaching is number one. Salesmanship has to be, it does. Pete Carroll could sell, Mac Brown could sell. Pete was a great coach.

And to this point at USC, all these years later, they've never found a coach as good as Pete Carroll. All these years later, Sark, Kiffin, Lincoln Riley, not bad coaches. They've never found. found another Pete. They could all sell. Pete may have been the best at selling, but he was also

the best coach. All right, Jay Mack. I'm not being too harsh. I don't think I'm being, but, but, you know, on this one, about six years ago, I stopped buying all the ESPN fluff on Calipari and said, this thing ain't working. This shtick ain't working. And it's more schick that it is structure. If we're ranking nicknames, you know, I love a good rank. Calipanzi may be number one that you've ever come up with. I don't know if that was yours or you got that from a source or somebody. But that's phenomenal. Every time you say it, I laugh over here and I'm sure you see me laughing. I just think it's funny. He will win at Arkansas. Win what?

Games. Well, I would hope he would win some games. What does that matter? He'll get into the tournament and win he'll win games. Can he get to a final four? Nope. Damn. All right. By the way, Alabama now has a great coach. Nate Oates is good. Oh, man. They're going to. Nah, I don't want to go overboard.

All right. How much time do we have a minute? We have a minute left. Go ahead. Let me ask. Masters is this weekend. Yeah. You know, I'm a big college basketball gambler.

It's over now. Nothing to gamble on. But the Masters is here, and I got invited to some pools where you invest in golfers. Do you have any golf intel? John Rom. Who? No, I'm just kidding. I know who he is.

But that's somebody you think has a shot. We need the world's best golfer now on a consistent basis. That's the problem. I'm so locked in on hoops. So you are going to bet on stuff. follow. No, I'll go to trusted people that I know who follow golf and bet on golf. I have a friend that bets on golf and I'll trust him. He says Rom. Well, that's his favorite golfer and he's great. So is this your son? It's his favorite

golfer John Robb? No. No, of course I'll watch. NBA season wraps up Sunday. Playing starts Tuesday. Hey, I can get you some of my tickets next week if you want. He had the old bonox up last night. He was text messaging me. They could barely transmit through to my phone he was so far away. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends.

Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes.

Those people are starving for banter. humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me, Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, my basketball and college football journey, or my career in

sports media. Well, now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfilled conversations with athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. So let's get to it. Listen to the Clifford show on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes,

follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. On the Look Back at it podcast. From 1979, that was a big moment for me. 84 is big to me. I'm Sam Jay. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick a year, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it.

With our friends, fellow comedians, and favorite authors. Like Mark Lamont Hill on the 80s. 84 was a wild. It was a wild year. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed human.