The Herd with Colin Cowherd - HOUR 2 - Kevin Durant, Panthers, Green

Episode Date: July 8, 2022

The Nets are not going to get the picks they want for Kevin Durant How the Baker Mayfield trade to the Panthers happened Colin's thoughts on Draymond Green defending Kevin Durant Guest: Joe PersonSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. Another podcast from some SNL, late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter.

Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque.

Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win.

I don't care which I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, my basketball and college football journey, or my career in sports media. Well, now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifers Show. This is a place for raw, unfilled conversations with athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard,

but celebrated. So let's get to it. Listen to the Clifford show on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok's podcast network on TikTok. On the Look Back at it podcast. From 1979, that was a big moment for me.

84 was big to me. I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick a year, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. With our friends, fellow comedians, and favorite authors.

Like Mark Lamont Hill on the 80s. 84 was a wild year. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Thanks for listening to The Heard podcast. Be sure to catch us live every weekday from 12 to 3 Eastern, 9 to noon Pacific on Fox Sports Radio and FS1. Find your local station for the herd at Fox Sports Radio.com or stream us live every day on the iHeartRadio app by searching Herd. You're listening to Fox Sports Radio. Here we go. Hour number two on a Friday, live in Los Angeles.

It's the herd, wherever you may be, and however you may be listening. IHeart Radio, Fox Sports Radio, FS1, and's out of town for a week. Oh, so you're on like a little mini-vay. Are you cooking? No. Am I cooking? No. That's why you were in on a beach last night going out to dinner.

I tuna salad for lunch today. That'll be it. That's my cooking. No, it's a, it's a, I work out a lot. Yeah. I read a lot. I go to bed earlier. I'm very boring.

That's, of course, the voice of Alex Curry for those on radio. She's with us today and then Joy's back next week. So one of the things I believe in if you do this for a living is you have to have your own opinions and you can't worry about the noise on the outside. I always say, I'm a shooter. I'm Steph Curry. I shoot. I miss a lot, but I shoot.

I'm not going to worry about my critics. I'm not going to worry about the noise. boys. Everybody loved Baker-Mafew. I did not. I took nothing but crap for years. Nothing but crap. I was right. I never cared. I never been into Westbrook. When he won the MVP, I said it's a joke. He doesn't make anybody better. It's a stat award. It's a good narrative because Katie bailed on him. He's not an MVP. He's not MVP of his division. Forget the league. And I took a lot of hit. I was right. He's not an MVP. He's never been the most valuable player. I would argue, I'm not sure he's been the most valuable player of any team he's been on.

It could be the most talented. But, you know, there's a reason he's going to get traded for the fifth time in five years. So what I'm about to say will probably get massive pushback. But I absolutely believe it is that we overvalue the individual talent. Now, there are guys like LeBron for about 10 to 12 years in his prime. I would have traded, you know, I would have moved Earth to get him. But LeBron's a very stable personality. Steph Curry, Michael Jordan, Kobe Bryant.

Kevin Durant's not that. He's impulsive. He's a wander. He doesn't let you put his arms around you. So I would be very reluctant to move a lot of pieces for him. And there's a story today, and again, I'll get pushback on this. There's a story today that the market form is very small. And so I said, I saw a story where Brooklyn wanted Minnesota to give up Carl Anthony Towns, Anthony Edwards, and four picks.

I wouldn't give up Anthony Edwards for Kevin Durant straight across. You're out of your mind. And so here's four young players that I wouldn't trade Kevin Durant for today, and I'll explain each one. I wouldn't trade Anthony Edwards, aunt for him. I wouldn't trade John Mrant for him. I wouldn't trade Yonnes for him, and I wouldn't trade Luca for him. So let's start with Anthony Edwards. First of all, look at the kid's body.

His body, Chet Holmgren, we worry about his body. Anthony Edwards has a perfect NBA body. He looks like a linebacker. That kid has not gone into his prime. When he does in two years, he'll have 10 years minimum of prime. He doesn't cost me anything now. He just averaged 25 a game in a playoff series. Minnesota's been a nightmare forever.

He arrived. They get to the playoffs. There's no way I'm trading Kevin Durant for that. Who's got injury issues, is wildly expensive. You never know if he's really. committed, I would not trade them straight across. I would trade Carl Anthony Towns for him. I'd trade draft picks for him, a lot of draft picks. Straight up, I would not trade Anthony Edwards for him. Minneapolis loves this kid. It's not a great basketball city. He's going to make it a

great basketball city. He's a great young player. He's vertical. He's physical. He's committed. He can do things on both ends. He's marketable. He was just in a movie hustle. He's no way. He's I trade. Okay, let's go to Jah Morant, who I've been critical of. Jah Morant, I would not trade for Kevin Durant. He's a more exciting player, so he's more marketable. Again, he's totally committed to Memphis. The city's in love with him. He just averaged 27 points a game, and he's an ascending shooter. So I've had my issues on Jah Morant. I do worry about his physicality because he weighs 175 pounds, and he drives to the basket. He reminds me very much of Derek Rose. So this is one of these where I would do it, but I'd be a little nervous because I do worry about Jaws' physical future going

forward. But the kid is dynamic. He's the most talked about kid in the league. There's no flaky to him. There's no impulsive to him. He's a great player. I'm not trading Kevin Durant straight up for him. I know I'll get pushed back.

Janus, no way. No way. Better defensive player. He can be a more dominating offensive player. He is completely committed. Milwaukee loves him. they would have, they would be outraged in Milwaukee if you move Janus for Kevin Durant. People would be furious if you made that move.

And I wouldn't trade Luca for him. Folks, Luca is going to average 28 points a game or more for 12 straight years. He's got a big thick body. So injuries are probably not going to be a big issue. He is the next great score in this league. Luca's going to have games in his career and you can just write it down. He's going to have multiple 50 point games. games. He's going to have a Kobe night. He's going to have a 60 or a 70 or an 80 point game.

I absolutely believe it. Luca is the next great score in the NBA. Doesn't mean he'll be the best player. That may be Janus. He's the next great score in the NBA. We saw Michael was the score. At one time, Wilk was the score. You know, Kobe was going to be the score. Here's the next great one. I would not straight across pay these guys or trade these guys for Kevin Durant. absolutely no way would not even take the phone call now let's go to some young guys i we'll call it i'd sleep on it these guys i take the phone call jason tatem zion devon tray young and donovan mitchell so let me explain each i would sleep in it with jason tatum i think the answer would be no now jason worries me because he didn't have that alpha that sort of you know mama mentality

thing where he verbalizes sometimes his lack of confidence but he's a 24-year-old kid. Again, athletes now in this generation, he's got 10 years minimum of prime. Minimum. 10 years. Kevin, you can argue, because of his injuries, is at the end of his prime or out of it. Jason Tatum played Kevin Durant in a playoff series this year. I watched it.

I thought Jason outplayed him. Jason doesn't have an ego. Jason's all in. Jason's committed. Jason's not impulsive. Jason, I think when he wants to, he's a better defensive player. Jason gets along with everybody in Boston.

They love Jason Tatum. I'd sleep on it, but I wouldn't make the move. Now, Zion, I'd make the move. I like Zion, but his injuries freak me out, and now he's going to be super expensive. Zion, I would make the move. I'm just worried. Now, when Zion's healthy, his numbers were wilt.

His numbers are outrageous. he's wildly marketable. And I don't think the Pelicans would make that move. I think I would. Devin Booker, I would make the move. Again, I think Devin is a really good player. But he's not like the alpha leader. I don't think he's a great defensive player.

He's a good shot maker. He's not Durant as a shot maker. If I had to make the move, Devin Booker for Kevin Durant. So Phoenix would have Chris Paul, Kevin Durant, McHale Bridges, DeAndre Aiton. I think you'd be a better team. I'd make that move. And I like Evan Booker.

Trey Young is one we argued about this morning. You think I'm nuts on this? I'd have a hard time moving Trey Young for Kevin Durant. And I'll tell you why, because he's a shooter. Westbrook's an athlete. He ages poorly. He ages quickly. Steph Curry can play forever.

Trey Young has 12 years left of being a great score in this league. 12 years. He's a shooter. So he doesn't play any defense. I'm not sure what kind of leader he is, but I think people would be ticked off in Atlanta if you moved him for Durant. I really do. I think people love him there.

And again, if you look at where the league is going, it's a shooter's league. This kid is magic. And he's got an attitude on him that I love when he goes to New York. So I don't think I can make the move. Donovan Mitchell, I'd probably make the move. And I like Donovan. But he doesn't play much defense anymore. He had the Gobert situation, which was an ideal.

I like Spida. I think I like him a lot. But I think Anthony Morant, John Morant, Janice, Luca, wouldn't take the call. Tatum, Zion, Booker, Trey Mitchell, I would take the call. I don't think I'd make the move for Jason Tatum. And I don't think I'd make it for Tray Young. And I know I'll get crushed for it. But basketball's culture is weird.

All we talk about is talent, as if chemistry and coaching don't matter. The Brooklyn Nets were no better with Kevin Durant, Kyrie Irving and James Harden in the playoffs, than Kenny Atkinson and Spencer Dinwiddie in their bench in chemistry was. They're one and done. So, you know, I feel strongly about Baker Mayfield was a reach. Westbrook was never really an MVP level player. I like Kevin Durant.

I'm a fan of Kevin Durant. And most players in the league, you know, I would give stuff up for him. But the idea that I, this Minnesota discussion, they wanted Carl Anthony Towns, four picks, and Anthony Edwards? I mean, you're just delusional if you're the Nets. There is no, and I'm not even a huge Carl Anthony Towns guy. He's a little flaky for me. And I don't get the Rudy Gober move.

Really, I don't. But I think people would be outraged in Minneapolis if you traded straight across. Forget the big trade. If you did Duran for Anthony Edwards, people would be pissed in Minneapolis. That would not sell. at all. I think we've overvalued the individual star. Yes, Steph Curry is the motor that makes Golden State go. But guess what? Steph Curry also got a great break. It's called Clay Thompson and Draymond Green because they can hide his defensive limitations and liabilities.

I mean, Clay Thompson's the perfect player alongside Steph. He doesn't need the ball. He's a catch and shoot guy. And he's a, in his prime, he was a great defensive player. So Steph could not play with Damian Lillard. They'd score 70 and they'd give up 70. I mean, and I love Dame, but Dame and Steph both need the ball, both need their shots, and neither plays great defense, although Steph has his moments. So Clay Thompson and Draymond Green have been invaluable to Steph Curry. Now, obviously, Steph is the straw that stirs the drink. He's the engine. But some of the stuff, like the story out today, the Kevin Grant trade rumors, there's not a big market for him. I get it. You know, I've said this about Aaron Rogers, is that there was a big

market for Matt Stafford. So a big market. Like everybody wanted Stafford and the Rams out bid people. So there was, I mean, the people I talked to when Matt Stafford said he wanted out, almost the entire league called for Matt Stafford, why? Because he'd been a good soldier in a dysfunctional mess. And people are like, we can build around Matt Stafford. He's a good dude. situation, good dude, great talent. If Aaron Rogers went to the market today, I do not, I think it would be a lot like Kevin Durant. There'd be teams that would want him, but the good teams would be like, you can't, Aaron never let you put his arms around it.

Matt Stafford is like, I'm a ram, I'm here, I want to be on the team, put your arms around me, lean into me, I'll be there for it. Matt Stafford is like, I'm a ram. This is where it's ending. that's very easy for fans, advertisers, owner, GM, coach locker room to put your arms around him. Kevin Durant does never allows that. Aaron Rogers never allows that. Maybe I'll play a year.

Maybe I'll play three. Here's my tattoo. It's cryptic like my personality. That's who Aaron is. It's just like dating. You know, all you single people out there dating. You know, you want people that can be vulnerable and lean into you and are there for you. You start dating the best looking person in the world and you need the,

like a favor and yeah i'm not available today oh it's that kind of relationship all right yeah some you marry some you date like erin feels kevin durant and aaron feel like you date you're you're never going to get the lean in from them and so i think in sports we're just enamored with talent is everything yeah matt stafford's talented but the market was massive for matt stafford it was huge for him because you know by the way it was gigantic for russell wilson but russell had a no trade clause so russell shut everybody down and said, this is where I'm willing to go. But half the league would have wanted Russell Wilson. Over half the league wanted Matt Stafford.

You got to give to get. Aaron doesn't give. Kevin doesn't give. They want. They don't give. And if that's your personality, there's limitations on how many people they're going to commit to you. And I'm a Durant fan. I'm not anti-kevin.

But you ask yourself today if you covered the Minnesota T-Wills. If you made a Kevin Durant for Anthony Edwards trade today, I think it would be panned in that city. Now, maybe the basketball slam magazine would tout it as the greatest move ever. But if you ask fans, totally against it. Then I don't want Kevin Durant. They want Ant. They want their guy who's into them and they're into him.

That stuff matters in sports. Want more herd? The herd streams 24 hours a day, seven days a week within the IHeart radio app. Search Herd to listen live or on demand whenever you'd like. Imagine an Olympics. where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque.

Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast, Superhuman, documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win.

is a win. I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated.

One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the big. biggest moments in sports and entertainment. And the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be.

Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tapped Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do with Little Kim? Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast.

I'm Sam Jay. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick it here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill, waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 is big to me, not just because of crows. crack. I'm down to talk about crack on day, but just so y'all know. I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack.

So I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now. Thank you finishing that sentence. Yes. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really? Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history.

Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hardway with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kear Games. And in recognition of Mental Health Awareness Month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field

and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking, Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing. And we're still chasing it. And we don't know when we've done enough. Because people scoreboard watch.

Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross, because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth? Are you a good person because you're afraid? Because that's two different intentions, bro. Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person.

Join me, Kear Gaines, as we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, learn the hard way. Open your free, our heart radio app, Search, learn the hard way, and listen now. You know, I was reading something the other day, and nothing is good for you, right? I used to have a high school basketball coach, and he got it right.

He used to always say moderation in life. I was reading a story the other day. In my entire life, first, it was good if you had a glass of wine. It lowers your, you know, your anxiety. And it's bad because you could drink too much. And then for about 20 years, wine is good for you. And now they're back to saying no good, no alcohol is good for you. Even a glass of wine is no good for you.

And my takeaway is, I like a glass of wine. I'm drinking it. I'm going to die at about 87 years old anyway. Whether I drink it or not, it doesn't matter. I'd rather go out with a wine buzz than be a bitter old, angst-ridden guy that never had a glass of wine. I'm reading stuff about coffee now. And they're like, I like coffee.

Yeah. So I drink a lot of coffee. Espresso, ice coffee, whatever. I have a few a day. And now they're like, well, you can drink too much coffee. It's not good for you. The key in all this, it appears to me, is just moderation. Now, that's not always easy.

You put chips around me. I can't moderate. It's very ugly. But the truth of the matter is that the media does not report plain landings. They report plane crashes. And so any time there's a little concern or a little worry, it becomes a story. I am here to suggest that multiple cups of coffee are good for you. And since 90% of you thought you were epidemiologists during COVID,

I am going to be a general practitioner during this show today. Drink coffee. It's good for you. Now, 13 espressoes? Well, they have about nine a day in Italy, and those people are very happy. So I think you can do as many espresso as you want. You guys were all epidemiologists during COVID. I can't be a general practitioner today on coffee.

Drink as much coffee as you want, Alex, with a news. No, no, no. Turn on the news. This is the herd line news. I will tell you, Colin, though. It took me probably about a month. gain at my tolerance of the espresso that they have in Italy when I studied abroad. I tried to have like three my first day there. I was like bouncing off the walls. It's, it's normal for them.

Oh, it's just part of their life. Yeah. In fact, you have, three or four stops throughout the day. Yeah. And double espresso's three or four times a day. Your body gets accustomed to it. Oh, yeah. No, now I wake up with a quad. So I'm my caffeine level is next level. All right. Well, Paula Benkerro made his summer league debut last night, and he did not disappoint helping lead the magic to a 91-77 win over the Rockets. Following the game, he talked about facing pressure as the number one pick. I got it tattooed on me, you know, no pressure, literally. So I just always, I've always dealt with pressure well, you know, and been able to handle it. And I mean, at the end of the day, it's just basketball. Like, it can be all the pressure, all the noise in the world. But at the end of the day,

you got to go out there and hoop against five other guys. So it's like, I mean, at the end of the end of the day, it's Like, what really is it if it's just basketball, you know? To thine own self, be true. Be authentic. Be yourself. Don't worry about the noise. Be true to yourself. He's a good player, a good kid.

He'll be a nice NBA player. We have no idea if he'll be a star. Yeah. But he has the NBA body. I mean, sometimes in life it's, you know, DNA helps. He's got an NBA body this morning. Like he looks like an NBA veteran this morning. And he has the right attitude.

He said he wants to be the go-to guy on the team. He had 17 points, four rebounds, and six. assists in 25 minutes last night. So he came out. He's not letting the noise get to him. So what you said, he kind of got to block it out. So he's going to be exciting. Exciting to watch what he can do.

All right. Well, there have been talk that Donovan Mitchell might be traded from the Jazz is off season. According to multiple reports, though, the team had been shutting down teams that called and asked about acquiring him. And according to Brian Winhorse, Mitchell and his team are going to stand pat for the time, being an. not force any action regarding a trade. Now, this could change down the line. Obviously,

the Jazz just traded. Rudy Gobert to the Timbalt, Timberwolves for four first round picks. So it sounds like he's just going to kind of wait and see what Utah is going to do. He's entering his second year of his five-year contract, making $163 million guaranteed. Next year, he makes $30.4 million. Well, Danny Aange's history in Boston was he collected draft picks. but built a solid team while doing it. So is this possible? After getting five draft picks for Rudy Gobert,

he no longer is in a crisis mode to get picks. He got double what people probably would suggest or submit to you they would get for Rudy Gobert. So once I get five draft picks, I don't need four more draft picks. No. What I need is good players in Utah. and he is now easily our best player.

So I think the deal for Rudy Gobert was so sensational and such highway robbery that you have to recompense, you know, if you would have gotten five picks for both of them and players. But when you got five for one, it's the second best player that you got five for one, you've got to recalibrate your idea of what you're going to do with Donovan Mitchell. Danny Aange rebuilt Boston, and they were never awful. They were always competitive. A steal for Utah. That was an insane deal that you could not turn down.

That big off for Rudy Gobert. Donovan Mitchell's a better player. Yeah. He wouldn't get four first round picks from 90% of the teams in the league. I don't know if he would get three first round picks. That was a home run deal. I mean, Donovan Mitchell, if you traded Donovan Mitchell for a good player and three first round picks, some would push back.

Rudy Gober got five and another four or five guys. Crazy. Yeah. So build around Donovan. All right. Well, switching gears, Baker Mayfield was traded to the Panthers this week. And much like relationships after the divorce comes the stories that might have led to the breakup. And according to Jason Lloyd of the athletic, there were issues between Baker and Kevin Svansky that were building under the surface.

Last season, Lloyd described it as a case of a quarterback who didn't trust his coach and a coach who didn't trust his quarterback. Now, if you have two of the most important roles on a team, not trusting each other, you're not going to have success. How you win is everybody buys in and believes. So what's not talked about in this story is Andrew Barry. So I know somebody in the NFL who's an executive and is good friends and knows Andrew Barry. And I said this on the air and I'll say it again. Halfway through the season, I was told by somebody who knows Andrew Barry that he would

be shocked knowing Andrew Barry's personality and history if he went long term with Baker. So we'll talk about Kevin Stefansky, but upstairs, the GM was not a Mayfield fan. He didn't draft him. He didn't want him. So we can bang on this and people can send their agents to the athletic to protect their side of the story. Andrew Barry, and he's a really classy guy, and he'd never say it publicly, Andrew Barry was not into Baker Mayfield. He was not into the constant snarkiness, the constant fires he set during press conferences. So Stafansky, by the way, would never fire a GM.

GMs fire coaches. GMs do the work trading quarterbacks. So Andrew Barry was not into Mayfield. Stefansky was much more tolerant. I was told of it because it was a starting quarterback. You have to. But Barry was out, didn't like his personality. And midseason, there was a blow up. And somebody told me they're like, I know Andrew, I know his history. I've been around Andrew. It's not going to work. This is not his kind of quarterback. And it wasn't working in the locker room either. One of the quotes was Baker was widely viewed. as childish and immature, his behavior, annoyed teammates, and divided the locker room. He was often difficult to coach, and obviously this is not what you want to hear as he's now going

into Carolina trying to win a locker room and learn a whole new playbook. That'd be interesting. Alex with the news. Well, that's the news. And thanks for stopping by. There is an interesting story here. And I don't want to beat up on Baker. Like I said to start the show, I just know he's good enough to overcome dysfunction.

and dysfunction is all over the NFL. If I said to you, how many great teams are in the NFL? Rams are great. I think Buffalo is great. I think Kansas City is really good. That's about it. I think Tampa is really good. There's about four.

If I said who's dysfunctional in the NFL, you could literally list 10 teams. Easily, maybe 12. So the idea that, well, come on, Colin, Cleveland was dysfunctional. So was Buffalo before Josh Allen, the Saints before Drew Brees, the Bengals before Joe Burrow. If you're great, you overcome that stuff. stuff. But there's an interesting story here from Joe Person of the Athletic. And he kind of talks about how the deal came down between Cleveland and Carolina. This is interesting. So the Panthers owner is David Tepper.

And again, we all think it's the coach and this. The owner, David Tepper, is going to make the decision on anything that goes on in Carolina. He's the big dog there. Legendarily impatient at times volcanic. He was determined. The owner, David Person, was determined. Deppard, I'm sorry, David Tepper, I'm sorry. He viewed Baker as a depressed asset.

This is a financial guy. That's how he viewed him. And so he viewed Baker Mayfield as a depressed asset. I'm not overpaying for him. And according to this story, the Panthers were the only serious suitor. So Ian Rappaport had come out and said, the Seahawks are not interested at all. Josina Anderson said that's not true. According to this story by Joe Persson, the Panthers were the only serious suitor,

which I believe to be true because of how little Carolina paid for him. So basically, over the last month, now Cleveland was going to be very rigid initially, but in the last month, they were willing to give him away, and nobody wanted him. So it doesn't mean he can't succeed in Carolina. I'm not here to, you know, bully Baker. I do think he throws a pretty good ball when you give him protection. What's interesting is Carolina's offensive line is, now it may be better this year. They drafted a left tackle.

They made an upgrade on the interior. It was garbage last year. Every pass, Donald's running for his life. There is no comfortable pocket ever, any passing down. So it was the second worst ranked offensive line in the league. The Giants offensive line is brutal. You know, it's funny. I can't give, well, I can give the source away.

Now, Jason Garrett no longer works for the Giants. So I have a, I talk to Jason Garrett occasionally with the New York Giants. And I asked him last year when he was with the Giants, I said, what do you make of your offensive line? And there was a pause on the phone. He didn't say anything. I was like, all right, next question. There were two or three really bad offensive lines in the NFL.

And the Giants was pretty bad outside of Andrew Thomas and the Carolina Panthers may have been worse. So there's sort of your update. Joe Person, is he ready to go? Not yet. Oh, the other story I saw before we get to this is that Brian Winhorst, who's getting a lot of free publicity these days on Twitter and my show, basically said Kyrie Irving absolutely wants to be a Los Angeles Laker. I doubt Kyrie will be back in Brooklyn.

I think he'll be on the Lakers. I don't know when it's going to happen. Well, the reason this is going to work is simply, If you look at Kyrie Irving's brand right now, it's talented crazy guy who only works with LeBron. That's it. That's why he has no market. Brooklyn, disaster.

Boston, disaster. Duke only played eight games. Cleveland before LeBron. Do you remember? Couldn't stay healthy and nobody liked him. So the reason Kyrie is going to be a Laker is his brand is around the league is it's only worked once. Super talented, very difficult, but it works with LeBron.

Even LeBron, where it worked, it tailed off in the end. So there's just, you can't build around Kyrie Irving. Do I think he works with the Lakers? Absolutely. They need a shooter and a point guard. He's both. But again, if LeBron was in his prime, knowing what I know, I wouldn't make the deal. But LeBron now is not in his prime.

LeBron's got two years probably left that he can give you high-end games and stay mostly healthy. Well, then I'd run a little risk with Kyrie Irving. If it was eight years ago, I wouldn't do it again, knowing what I know with Kyrie's personality. So Joe Person covers the Panthers for the athletic. I think we had Joe on before. So I'm reading your story this morning here. It sounds like, from what I'm reading here, that the Browns General Manager and the Carolina General Manager, they kind of had a deal, but the owner's like, I'm not giving up much for Baker Mayfield. So that's my interpretation of what I read.

Is that true? Yeah, that's right on the money. David Tepper, despite being the NFL's richest owner worth $16.7 billion, he did not want to lose the negotiations, lose the deal, so to speak. In part, because I think he very correctly and astutely figured out the Panthers were bidding against themselves. We heard some talk, you know, I know you were mentioning this a minute ago. some talk about the Seahawks. That was never really serious. The Panthers general manager, Scott Fitterer, he spent two decades in Seattle, the last 12 or so with John Schneider. He had a sense that he had a sense that the Seahawks weren't interested. So the Panthers were able to kind of wade it out. Matt Ruh was ready to do this deal. Scott Fitterer was ready to do this deal, you know,

six weeks ago. But the owner was like, come talk to me when we get it at a decent number. And finally they did well there's a couple of dynamics here joe that are interesting matt rule has to win so he's going to choose whoever can help him win but because they're not paying baker any money there's no need to play him like if he doesn't beat out darnald you're not paying him 40 million bucks a year you just whoever wins the job wins the job that's my takeaway or do you believe baker's coming here to be a starter and that's kind of the lean by the staff i think they're trying to paint it as an open competition. And I, listen, Sam Darnold did some good things before Christian McCaffrey got hurt last year and before the line became a disaster. He had a decent spring, actually a good spring

with Ben McAdoo and learning that new offense that McAdo brought in. But they went out and got, they went out and got Baker to be a starter. There's no doubt about it. I mean, I think the only way he wouldn't start week one, as if he is somehow just, one, injured or two, having trouble in six weeks of training camp picking up the offense. But interestingly, during OTAs, when all this was bubbling, I asked Matt Rule. I couldn't use Baker's name for fear of tampering, et cetera, but I said to rule, if you guys went out and got a veteran quarterback prior to training camp, But after OTAs and minicamp, would that be enough time for him to get comfortable in the offense? And rule unequivocally said, yes, it would.

Yeah. Baker's personality is a backup. It would be ill-fitting to me. He's not really a back-up. You know, Cam Newton in New England, they're like, listen, Cam's a starter, or we're going to move off him and do Mac Jones. So, you know, I always said Tebow is a tough guy to be a backup because he's so popular. whether, you know, just some guys, I always say a backup quarterback, Joe, should be able to put a hat on in sunglasses, walk through a local mall and nobody knows who he is.

That's what you want a backup quarterback to be, Colt McCoy. So I think Baker has to be the starter or it'll be weird and it won't feel right. I think Darnold would be more capable, personality-wise, of being a backup. But my guess is, is that Darnold, because he knows the offense and has friends in the room, will be hard to unseat in the first week, but eventually will make mistakes. because Sam does, he's kind of reckless. Baker will take over. And then by the end of the year, they'll move off both.

That's what I view. Your takeaway on that. I think you're right. I think Matt Rule will give Baker, excuse me, we'll give Sam the first snaps at their training camp in Spartanburg, South Carolina. I think from there, I don't know how long it'll be until Baker jumps in there. But I think you're right. This feels like a one-year rental.

This feels like an opportunity for Matt Ruhl to try again at that quarterback position, which he's missed out on two different times now with Teddy Bridgewater first and then Sam. He's trying to do anything to coach a fourth season here. I mean, he very much enters this year on the hot seat. The GM here, Scott Fitterer, he came a year after. rule. But if the Baker thing doesn't work out, it might be that they all kind of go down together as David Tapper. He bought this team. It's now been four years ago. He has yet to sniff a playoff birth. And they're all getting a little antsy from the top of the ownership chain all the way

through the coaching staff. Yeah, that's interesting. I don't know David Teper. I know people who know David Teper. I think Matt Rul's a good coach, but he's a college coach. And the The success rate college to pros is about 30% max. It just doesn't work a lot. Most of these guys that work in the NFL, they have, you know, Pete Carroll was in the NFL before college, so that works. Tom Coughlin had been a position coach in the NFL before college. You know, Matt, did Matt do something in New York?

Matt's got a little NFL blood, if I recall. So do you, when you cover Matt Rule, I like him. He's got a little NFL blood. Do you feel like from presence to brain to personnel, you know, understanding, does Matt feel like he's going to survive and he can be a big time coach in this league? He doesn't lack the confidence, not at all. I mean, I think he feels like if it doesn't work out in Charlotte that he will be hired somewhere else, be it maybe another big-time college job or another NFL job.

I mean, confidence is not his, you know, he doesn't, as I said, he does not lack for that. I think with Matt, he's got to get the quarterback right. He hasn't done that yet. He did come into a situation, you know, just for him, where Cam Newton was sort of beaten up at that point of his career. they had to make a decision on whether to cut ties with Cam. They did that, obviously. Tried to bring them back last year and kind of recapture that magic. But, you know, rules a smart guy.

Like, you know, listen, I don't think there's any question that he could do this. But one thing where they've lacked is they've been really bad coming out of halftime, like really not very good with halftime adjustments. I will say this. his first staff here was really filled with Baylor, former Baylor and Temple guys that he knew and was familiar with. He went out this offseason. I mentioned McAdoo. He brought a bunch of guys in here with NFL experience onto his staff. Steve Wilkes, he's been a head coach. Obviously, McAdu's been a head coach. Even their special teams coordinator now, Chris Tabor, very well-respected guy who has worked in the NFL forever. So I think probably needed a couple of those guys on his first staff,

but at least he's got him here now. Good stuff. Joe Person, The Athletic covers the Carolina Panthers. Good to seeing you again. I hope you're having a nice summer and thanks. Thanks, Colin. You bet. So, yeah, they brought Baker in to start.

I don't think it'll be that easy because I think Darnold is an impressive guy in terms of big, strong, athletic. And it should be noted, Sam was actually pretty good last year to start the season when McCaffrey was healthy and the line was not as beat up. But once the line was compromised and they had no run game, you just, not a lot of guys in the league can win. Maybe Josh Allen, Mahomes, you know, a handful of guys. That personnel last year, once McCaffrey went down,

that's just not good enough to win a lot of games in the NFL. Be sure to catch live editions of the herd weekdays in noon Eastern 9 a.m. Pacific on Fox Sports Radio, FS1 and the IHeart Radio app. Mike check. If you want exclusive insight, from the biggest names in the sports game. What's good? This is national champion

and former pro baller Chris Johnson. Let me tell you a little bit about my new series, KJ Live. KJ Live is the only show featuring me going one-on-one with the brightest basketball minds on the planet to get the real. And when I say real, I mean that real. I got legendary Hall of Famers,

elite coaches, and the top basketball insiders bringing you a unique perspective on all things hoops culture that you will not find anywhere. To make your next move, your best move. And tap in with me on KJ Live, wherever you get your podcast from. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged.

It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard radio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care which I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media.

Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment,

and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast, it's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So, if you've ever supported me, or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right what you need to be. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeard radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes,

follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tap Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do with Little Kim? Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam Jek.

And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick it here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill, waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 is big to me, not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack all day, but just so y'all know. I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack. So I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now.

Thank you for finishing that sentence. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really? Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hard Way with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kear Games. And in recognition of Mental Health Awareness Month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests.

I'm talking. Trip Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing and we're still chasing it and we don't know when we've done enough. Because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses.

Steve Burns, Dustin Ross, because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth, or are you a good person because you're afraid? Because that's two different intentions, bro. Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person.

Join me, Kear Gaines, as we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, learn the hard way. Open your free iHeartRadio app. Search Learn the hard way and listen now. Fox Bet Super 6 is giving baseball fans

a free chance to win $10,000 of big poppy's money. Scan the QR code. Download the Super 6 app and enter your picks into the baseball contest for your free shot at the jackpot. Dremon Green is a podcast that just happens to be on my company, The Volume. I agree with him mostly. I don't agree with him here. He is

defending Kevin Durant. Dremont says people are calling Kevin Durant weak. He's not weak. Here's Draymond Green supporting Kevin Durant. People can't accept the fact that athletes are now businessmen

and no longer just playing basketball. And at some point, have to realize and be able to accept the fact that athletes are businessman and we make business moves and business decisions because you are operating a business. I am operating Draymond Green, Inc. So why if Draymond Green makes a move, a business move, is it not viewed as just that? But to start calling somebody weak and they run from challenges, that's baffling to me. Well, let me explain it.

In Oklahoma City, he ran from a challenge of building a relationship. He got to a finals. He couldn't win. He joined the Warriors who were already a championship team. Then he got into a fight with Draymond Green. He bailed on that, wouldn't fight through it. And now in Brooklyn, four years left in his contract, he's bailing on that. He won't fight through it.

Basketball players are businesses. but the Draymond Green business has been work hard, chip on his shoulder, overlooked, but yet over delivers. And willing to fight on the court, fight for his teammates, fight with his coach, fight his way through it. Kevin Durant is a business. His business, let's be honest right now, Kevin Durant's problem is perception. His perception is bailed on Oklahoma City because he couldn't grab the franchise from well. Westbrook, bailed on Golden State when he couldn't get along with Draymond Green, bailed on Brooklyn, four years left.

So that is his brand, and every business has a brand. Draymond's brand is different. Draymond's brand is tough guy, second round pick, great work ethic, undervalued, earned every penny he's ever made. That's your business and how it's viewed. That's your brand. Kevin's a business. His brand is he bales, and it's hard to argue because he's done it three,

times. So I don't think fans have a problem with players being like Tom Brady's a business, Peyton Manning's a business. I don't think fans care. I also think fans, although sometimes it makes them uncomfortable when it's their guy that leaves, fans also embrace mobility. Now, again, Cleveland was really distraught when LeBron left them, but they like getting them back. They supported getting them back. So I think fans understand mobility. They understand off seasons and trade deadlines. They get it. And fans totally understand that players are businesses. But every business has its own brand.

Fox's brand is different than Disney's brand. And the Draymond brand is tough guy who fights his way through things. He fought his way through a bad early series against the Celtics. He was really bad early. He fought his way through it. He fought his way back from injury. And he fought his way to the NBA as a second round pick. Dremon's brand is tough guy, got your back, all in,

speak in his mind, we'll argue, we'll guard the best player, will be the tough guy. That is a great brand. That's his brand. Not the most gifted offensive player, but that's his brand. And Katie's got a brand. And three times he's bailed. And so that's what people have a problem with. Nobody coerced you when to sign a contract with Brooklyn.

It wasn't like there was, you know, you grabbed a pen and signed the contract. And now you don't like it. Which, by the way, I get it. I wouldn't want to be connected to Ben Simmons for the next four years of my NBA. career either. But fans are okay with guys being brands. But Kevin's perception of his brand is ugly right now. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smigel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel help an

a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque.

Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win.

A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, my basketball and college football journey, or my career in sports media. Well, now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifers Show. This is a place for raw, unfills of conversations with athletes,

creators and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. So let's get to it. Listen to the Clifford Show on the IHeard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok podcast network on TikTok. On the Look Back at it podcast. From 1979, that was a big moment for me. 84's big to me. I'm Sam J.

And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick you here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. With our friends, fellow comedians, and favorite authors. Like Mark Lamont Hill on the 80s. It was a wild year. It was a wild year. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.