The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Hour 2 - Kirk Cousins ISN'T making sense

Episode Date: July 9, 2025

Doug looks at Kirk Cousins claiming he regrets signing with the Falcons who ended up drafting his replacement in Michael Penix Jr and why this feels like revisionist history Chet Holmgren agrees to max extension   Guest: Keith Law   #douggottliebshowSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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This is The Hurd, wherever you may be, or however you may be making this part of your day. Thanks so much. I'm Doug Gottlieb in for Colin Cowherd. Collin's back next Monday after a good old-fashioned week off. Keith Law is going to join us. Senior Major League Baseball, MLB Senior writer for the Athletic. We get his thoughts on what's wrong with the Dodgers. And how about this Mizorowski thing?

Pretty amazing stuff. And what about the guy leading the bigs in home runs? He plays in Seattle. Dead ballpark. A dead ballpark of all places. Plus, we got Major League Baseball draft upcoming this weekend as well. A lot to get to with Keith Law. I want to start with this.

So there's a new season of the quarterback on Netflix. And a guy who I do think that America sort of fell in love with. watching this series going back two years ago was Kirk Cousins. And we talked to start the show, if you're just joining us, Doug Galdi, in for Colin. We talked about how WNBA players, I think the best term would be felt disenfranchised by mainstream fans and media for so long. Now they're like taking it out on Caitlin Clark.

I think Kirk Cousins is a guy that's had a lot of ammo, picked in the fourth round, from a team that drafted a first round starting quarterback who was rookie the year that year in RG3. And then when it became his franchise, felt like they didn't like him there. Heck, the president of the team in an interview kept calling him Kurt Cousin when his name is Kirk Cousins. Like, again, you're showing somebody disrespect if he don't even know their name. Repeatedly, yes, I know I screwed up last hour. But my point is when it's, and again, it was like, like Bruce Allen was like eight times.

I want to talk about Kurt Cousins. Kirk Cousins. Like, name's Kirk Cuck. And I work for you. And I'm starting quarterback. So Kirk has spent time exacting his own personal revenge for people who didn't think he was good enough,

got the fully guaranteed contract, got the extension of Minnesota, won a road playoff game in New Orleans, proved on some level that he's better than advertised in primetime games. and then departs at the end of last season. Now, full disclosure, end of last season, he had torn his Achilles tendon.

He was on his way to an unbelievable year in the neighborhood of 6,000 yards passing that season. But Kirk Cousins struggled from about the midpoint this year and ultimately got pulled for Michael Pennix, who was the top 10 pick of the Falcons, to many people's surprise. Like you're going to sign Kirk Cousins, then draft her first round pick quarter.

That seems weird. So in that season of the quarterback or the new season, the quarterback, here's what Cousins had to say about if he could do it all over again. I wasn't expecting us to take a quarterback so high. At the time, it felt like I had been a little bit misled, or certainly if I had the information around free agency, it certainly would have affected my decision. I had no reason to leave Minnesota with how much we loved it there

if both teams are going to be drafting a quarterback high. But I've also learned in 12 years in this league that you're not entitled to anything. It's all about being able to earn your spot and prove yourself. Yeah, so he like backtracks. He's like, hey, you know, you're in your spot, you prove yourself or whatever. But had I known, look, this one seems pretty obvious. I get that he likes it. But the buyer's remorse that Cousins has,

I keep in mind that, again, Cousins has won in the business of sports. He's the guy who's done no extra years. Just give me the years, give me the money, make it all guaranteed he did. And that worked for him in Minnesota. But Minnesota was moving on. Make no mistake about it. They were moving on. They had allocated their resources towards their wide receiver and other pieces,

and they had made the decision, hey, we're going to go get a first round pick. and then they signed Sam Donald as a placeholder or just in case. And remember, he had worked in that offensive system when he was in San Francisco the two years previously. This is one of those things that it sounds really good in documentaries. He's like, man, if I knew they were taking a first round pick and Minnesota's taking a first round pick and I love Minnesota, I would have stayed in Minnesota. Like, what are you talking about, Kirk? They weren't going to pay you what Atlanta pays you.

You know? They just weren't. You know, it's like, yeah, I totally would have stayed there, would you? Really? Again, that's a cow, that's fertilizer. That's what that is. Remember, he essentially signed a two-year deals. Four years, 180, okay, 90 million guaranteed at signing.

Minnesota wasn't giving you that. Like, what are you even talking about? Yeah, hey, had I known that they were going to do that? Like, I didn't know they were going to do that. And again, does it look great for Atlanta to draft a quarterback? Actually, now it really does because Kirk Cousins, who apparently got hit and, you know, decided to play while hurt because he knows that, you know, one of the biggest lies, there's lots of lies told in the NFL, but the old, you don't lose your job to injury.

Like, what? Did Drew Bledso lose his job to injury? Of course he did. Lots of guys had lost their job to injury. So Kirk Cousins apparently took a hit to his shoulder and didn't tell any, you know, now he's, I didn't tell anybody that I was, I was hurt. Like, yeah, dude, you were playing, you're playing well. And then all of a sudden your production fell off a cliff.

He played 14 games. Let's not act like Atlanta did you wrong. Oh, man, Atlanta, they did me wrong. They gave you 14 games. And the last couple of which were bad. You threw 18 touchdowns and 16 interceptions. Like, I can't believe they drafted another quarterback. Why?

Because you're coming off of an Achilles tendon tear. And they gave you 90 guaranteed. So you're going to get paid this year. They'll probably trade you when somebody else's quarterback goes down. And you'll get a chance because you'll get, you know, Nobody's going to pick up that option, and you'll get another contract next year. I just don't lie to us and go like, hey, if I knew that Atlanta was going to draft the quarterback, I would have stayed in Minnesota. No, you wouldn't because they weren't going to give you $90 million.

Stop lying. Also, NFL players stop lying about we don't have guaranteed contracts. You do. They're just not all fully guaranteed, and the ones that are fully guaranteed aren't the amounts that you won't read in the paper. That's really it. I don't know. Just the manipulation or. some of it is, again, this is how any athlete.

Kirk Cousins can think that way because the whole world has done me wrong, and I prove them wrong time and again is how he's made it. Okay. But again, let's not kid ourselves. Okay. That he wasn't staying in Minnesota. And he was coming off at Achilles' Tenantare. And if you think that Minnesota, where he'd had sort of not.

up and down run there. Ended on the up. He was playing really well in that system. But if you think they were going to give him a four year, two years of a guaranteed contract. And oh, yeah, by the way, when a guy stays, he wants to get paid more, not less. There's no home ground discount in the NFL. I think Kirk Cousins is trying to rewrite history and get a sympathetic year. And no one's really sympathetic.

Not because we don't like him. Just because, dude, you're still getting paid. You're going to get another contract if you want to do so. Don't tell us that Minnesota was going to keep you. when they didn't put that money towards quarterback at all last year. Their GM comes from San Francisco. They want to operate under the San Francisco model as long as they can. Get as many players with as cheap a quarterback as possible.

That's the San Francisco model. Okay, coming up next in The Hurt here on Fox Sports Radio. What is the matter with the Dodgers? What's wrong? Swept by the Astros on the brink of being swept by the Brewers. We'll discuss that. Upcoming next. Be sure to catch live editions of the herd weekdays in noon Eastern, 9 a.m. Pacific.

Hey, what's up, everybody? It's me, three-time Pro Bowl of LaVar Arrington, and I couldn't be more excited to announce a podcast called Up on Game. What is Up on Game, you ask? Along with my fellow Pro Bowler, T.J. Hushman Zada and Super Bowl champion. Yep, that's right. Plexico Burris. You can only name a show with that type of talent on it.

Up on Game. We're going to be sharing our real-life experiences loaded with teachable moments. Listen to Up On Game with me, LaVar Arington, T.J. Hushmanzada, and Plexico Burris, on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast from. Hey, it's us, the Jonas Brothers, and guess what? We have some big news. What's the news, new? Huge news.

We created our own podcast called, Hey, Jonas. We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to it. First people to do podcasts. Pretty, yeah, pretty wide range of podcasts. We're starting a trend. But this one's extra special.

So how do we actually come up with a name, Hey Jonas, guys? I honestly don't remember. I think it was on a call about what we should call it. Well, we were thinking I'm originally calling it one of the early names of our band before Jonas Brothers. This is how you guys remember it going down? Yes.

I have a very different memory of this. We were talking about a thing, a bit for the podcast. we could call in and say, hey Jonas, and then I wrote down on my little notepad, Hey Jonas, and offered it up as a potential title for the podcast. But thanks for remembering that, guys. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite.

Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, S&L's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the I-Heart Radio app,

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The French Open is one of the toughest tests in tennis. And I know firsthand because I competed there myself. I'm Renee Stubbs. And on the Renee Stubbs tennis podcast, I'm breaking down everything happening at Roland Garris. Every match, every upset, and what it really takes to win on clay. Jen she won. I mean, she went down in three to Rabakina, but I'm delighted. She's an outsider to win the French for me. And she likes Clay. Listen, Lena Rabakina is arguably the best player in the world right now. And I actually can win on any surface.

Because if she's serving, well, good luck. Consider this your court side seat to the French Open. Listen to the Renee Stubbs tennis podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHeart Women's Sports. Doug Gottlieb in for calling this to heard, Fox Sports Radio, IHart Radio app. Welcome in. Sunday is the Major League Baseball draft. I know that because dear friend of mine, Matt Holliday's son, Ethan, is getting ready to be drafted likely on Sunday.

Now, his brother Jackson, two years ago, was the number one overall pick, but that was a bit of a surprise. Ethan may be the number one overall pick this year. I bring it up because our next guest, Keith Law, longtime writer and baseball analyst for the athletic. He just put out his top 100 prospects list, and you had Ethan number one. Keith, does that mean that Ethan will go number one? Does the number one prospect go number one in the baseball draft? No, quite often he does, and he didn't last year. Number one prospect was Charlie Condon who won the Golden Spikes Awards.

he went third. Travis Bezano went first. He was, I think, one of the runners-up, actually, for the Golden Spike. So it wasn't a crazy pick, but it is often about money in what a team believes, how much a team believes they can maybe save, taking a slightly lesser player that would allow them to then spend over the slot recommendations for later picks and get players they think are first-round talents instead. Do you think Holiday goes number one?

I don't. my answer might have been different on Saturday, but Washington's decision to fire Mike Roso, who I actually think did a great job for them on multiple fronts. You know, I understood Rizzo's drafting preferences, just particularly in the first round, pretty well, and he had an amazing relationship with Scott Boris Holiday, the whole holiday family. They're all Boris clients. And Mike really liked to take the sort of premium, most famous, so to speak, players on the board. You know, his belief is what they're famous for a reason, even the holiday.

is famous for a reason. He's super talented. Now I have a feeling they'll do something a little bit more conservative, which is not to say it'll be the wrong pick. There's plenty of good candidates this year. But I don't think they'll go high school. I think they'll go college now. Speaking of college, Paul Skeens continues, ERA is ridiculous,

but his team stinks, and their farm system isn't particularly good, right? Other than that, Mr. Lincoln, how is the show? I know ownership came out and like, we're not trading Paul Skeens. Is there a world in which they replenish their farm system by moving schemes? I don't think so.

Nobody I've talked to and this is totally my beat. But nobody I've talked to has really brought this up as a possibility. Like I think they would trade Mitch Keller and I think they should trade Mitch Keller because I'm just doing with pitchers. You just worry you're going to hold on too long

and they're going to get hurt or lose their stuff and not be so effective anymore. But I think they look at schemes. Like he's profitable. We don't really talk about players that way specifically, but when schemes is pitching, right? Everyone's tuning in. People want to go to the ball.

park is, I'd say it, someday he's the only reason you might buy a ticket to go see the pirates. I'm not trying to be mean. He's just that good. No, you're not saying anything that, even pirate fans are like, yeah, you're right. You're right. Yeah, right. So I think he stays.

If I'm them, though, I'm like, anybody else here is available. Like I've seen Cabrion Hayes, who signed a very, very long extension. They're shopping him. They should. I like Cabrian Hayes. Maybe he'll be better somewhere else, but he's not helping the pirates. and they need to replenish. Like you said, they need to boost, particularly the hitting talent in the farm system.

Misarowski, after giving up a 02 curveball to Shohei, was outstanding again last night. He had maybe two bad at bats as a pitcher against the Mets, maybe three in one inning. Outside of that, he's been outstanding. It's early. He's got great stuff. But as you pointed out, right, you're always worried about the young pitcher getting in too soon. because injury or, you know, second time through, you know, against teams, they get a book on him. What is the league saying about, about Mizorowski and his ability to maintain this level of dominance?

So the pure stuff, if we're just talking, even if we're just talking, even if we're just basketball and slider, elite, always have been, even when he was a junior college prospect a couple years ago, and Burroughs took him, think of the second round. Stuff was elite. never threw a lot of strikes. That has gradually gotten better. And, you know, there's always been a concern he's going to get hurt because it's a violent delivery and he throws so hard, so consistently.

Guys like that just don't have a great track record of staying healthy. I can't predict an injury. Yeah, I look at him and I say that guy looks riskier than most. The thing I'm most curious to see is what you just said. As hitters get to see him again and again, are they going to start to lay off a lot of that stuff? He can get guys out in the zone, but I don't think he can locate. in the zone consistently enough, and they're going to try, especially that slider. If they're going to lay off the slider out of the zone, maybe even try to cheat on the

fastball a little bit, and that's kind of what the Mets did. The Mets, especially second time through the order, it looked like they made an adjustment. So as he gets around the league, do we start to see that happen? And you know what? If he keeps getting guys out the second time through, I will gladly sort of, you know, shake my hand and say, yep, okay, he's good. He's a number one starter because it is, at least those two pitches. You do not see many guys in baseball, rotation or bullpen who have two pitches that good.

The Dodgers have lost five in a row. And like, look, again, they were coming off of a run where they won, I don't know, 13 out of 16. But these are playoff teams, Astros and Brewers. And in four of those five games, they've only scored one run. I know their pitching is yet to be healthy, but what's happened to the Dodgers' bats? I wonder of a little bit, even coming into the year, we just sort of all thought they would bludgeon everybody, right? The offense looked like it was going to be, if not the best, among the best.

And they were still second in the National League and run scored per game, but just slightly behind the Cubs. So I don't think there's reason to panic. The offense is on the older side. Do they start to see some fatigue over the course of a long season? Is this an opportunity maybe for the front office to say, let's go get another, or maybe a bat with some versatility, just to give some guys days off so that they're a little fresher into September and October.

I'm just speculating. It could just be a bad couple of weeks for them against some pretty good competition, as you said, because even with the offensive struggles the last week or two, they are still among the best offenses in either league so far this year. No question. I look at that National League, right? You've got the Mets have 53 wins, the Phillies 53 wins, the Cubs 54, the Brewers 52.

You know, the Giants, they went on a walk off inside the park. That's nuts. Nuts. But it's still the Dodgers and everybody else, assuming Blake Snell is back in time that they're healthy. If I were to say, Keith, put your life savings on one team in the National League being the biggest challenger to the Dodgers. What would your answer be?

Oh, that's a good one. I think I'd still say the Phillies. Because even though their offense, my worst is a Philly fan, so I see a lot of Phillies games when I'm not actually out. And their offense can be really frustrating. But they're going to make the playoffs. Their rotation may be the best in baseball. They could carve their way through October just on pitching. I think back to those six Cardinals who weren't that good of a team, but their pitchers got real good, real fast in October.

And they more or less just pitch their way to the World Series championship. and I think the Phillies, they're just such a good rotation on paper. I think they could do that. I'd like it even more if they went out and acquired a little more bullpen help. But Dave Dombrowski always does stuff like that. Like they'll be active, they'll be buyers, they'll identify something they can fix at the deadline. And the bullpen is generally the easiest thing to do in July. The Detroit, I'm just trying to figure out, I mean, obviously Riley Green and Spencer Togerson are amazing.

Yep. But, I mean, the Tigers, on paper, look awesome. And it's just so hard to comprehend, you know, a team that, you know, what was it, 19, they lost 114 games to begin, the slow bill back. But, you know, four years ago was 96 losses. Is this real what we're seeing? 59 and 34. Great run differential.

Is this real? Yeah, I think it is. I think they're helped by a weak division, right? Nobody else in the division is over a five hundred. So that boosts them a little bit. it. But they got, they had one guy in the whole lineup before about two weeks ago, who was a below average hitter. And that was Trey Sweeney, and now he's out in the minors. They got Parker Meadows back. They're trying Javier Bayez back at shortstop. They can roll out. Maybe it's not the

best lineup, but it has no holes one through not. And I think that's a big part of why they've been one of the better run scoring teams in the league. Also, it's not just Tarek Scouble like it was last year. It was like, you know, Scouble and pitching chaos was AJ Hinton. his term for it and it worked, but no one, you can't do that for a whole season. And school school, is just as good. Casey Meis looks like he's finally turning into the guy. I thought he'd be eight years ago when he was the first overall pick. They've gotten great work out of Reese Olson.

Jack Flaherty has at least taken up some innings. They should go get a starter. And I think they're going to do something. They're definitely buyers at this point. They've got a great farm system. I would like to see them go get one more playoff worthy starter for October. But I do think they're very real. I don't just think they're going to the playoffs.

They'll probably end up with home field for at least a round. Yeah. Well, Zand, and Will Vest has been awesome, right? Yes, yes. That helps. Yeah, I mean, but when you have somebody that can close the door, and he's doing so incredibly well, it's just crazy to see the Tigers.

You're like, is that? Wait, the Tigers? The Tigers. Yeah. They got good really fast. It's unusual, but it's also, like, she'd give a lot of other fans. hope. You can turn things around really quickly. And the Tigers, you know, bad for a lot of years,

a lot of high draft picks. Several of those guys just kind of broke out all at once in like a year and a half span. They waited for a while in Torkelson. He broke out. Mize. They waited forever and through a Tommy John surgery. He broke out. Riley Green, I agree with you. He's a superstar. All those guys kind of hit around the same time. And that's how they went from, you know, 100 losses to, they could win 100 games this year. The big dumper. I just, I can't say it. I can't say it. I can't say it. And try and not chuckle. You got to say it.

The big number, Cal Raleigh. It's one thing to have 36 home runs, have a 1.029 OPS, which is second best in the league. So the other thing to do it as a catcher. And then the third thing to do it in Seattle, where balls do not fly out of Seattle at all, right? Dennis ballpark for home runs in the league. How sustainable is this? All those things considered that he's a catcher and that he's playing in Seattle. I believe in the old scouting axioms that catchers often develop later because there's so much wear and tear on their bodies and because we ask them to do basically two full-time jobs.

Well, he's 28. That's kind of peak years anyway for a lot of hitters. So I'm not shocked he's taken a step forward. I am probably most, maybe not shocked, amazed. He's become a way more disciplined hit. He's hit 30 homers before. He's going to hit 55 this year. That's another level.

but it's that his at best or better. He's walking more. He's making more contact overall. That's the thing that I think is so amazing. When we've seen guys do that, more often than not, it is just painful. So we might see a couple of years of Cal Raleigh doing his best Johnny Bench impression before, look, it happened. I don't care of the big dumper or the medium dumper or the little dumper. Eventually, it catches up to you.

It's hard to be a catcher in the big league. Eventually it'll fade, but to me, I say enjoy it. And by the way, CBS News had me on. You're damn right, I said Big Dumper on national television. Hey, it just came down that the MLB is going to use the ABS challenge system and the All-Star game. Granted, it's the All-Star game. They'll probably just do it to bring attention.

But it seems like a precursor for what's going to happen next year in the Bigs, right? Yes, absolutely. I love it, by the way. I've seen it in the Arizona Fall League. There's been a couple AAA games this year to see, like, Andrew Painter, and Cam Schlitler just pitching tonight for the Yankees. I was at his AAA start last week. I love the ABS, and the fans get into it because they don't know if you've seen it,

They put it on the jumbotron and they show a computer graphic of the path of the ball and people cheer or boo or whatever. But it adds an excitement to what would otherwise be. Like, nobody likes replay. That's basically what this is, another kind of replay. But instead they make it fun. And also I think it makes things more accurate. So I'm a big thing. Keith, great to catch up, man.

Enjoy the draft. I know it's like your personal Christmas because it challenges the depth of your knowledge, which is outstanding. Check his work out in the athletic. It's got the top 100 prospects, the MLB draft. is, what is it, 6 o'clock Eastern time on Sunday. It lasts essentially in perpetuity, but it's still amazing stuff because that's how that top all teams are made. Keith, thanks for joining us.

We appreciate it. My pleasure. That's Keith Law from The Ethnic. Let's get to Ryan Music with the news. No, no, no, no. This is the herd line news. Hello, Ryan. What do you got for you today?

Oh, Doug. Always good to be listening to two seam heads, talk about, America's pastime, summertime, good stuff there between you and Keith Law, but we are going to turn our attention to the association, the NBA, the Knicks. They officially introduced Mike Brown as their new head coach, and here's what he had to say about the massive, perhaps unrealistic, expectations that he's facing in New York. Nobody has any bigger expectations, first of all, than I do. My expectations are high. This is the Knicks. I talked about Madison. the square garden being iconic.

I love and embrace the expectations that come along with it. Do you? I'm sure. What are you supposed to say? No, for sure. What are you supposed to say? Absolutely. No, I get it.

I'm not blaming my Mike Brown here. So here's my Mike Brown then. I know Mike, I think it to be an exceptional human being. Like, he's a legit good dude. Okay. And all of us, I would hope, have learned from our past successes, but also our past mistakes. I think trying to run Princeton offense when you have Kobe Bryant and Dwight Howard and those guys,

and Eddie Jordan running it when you were in L.A. That's a mistake. It is firing, right? But we need to remember that he did help. Like the LeBron team that went to the finals that had Boobie Gibson as his starting, you know, guard opposite him. Mike Brown was the coach. Yeah. So you couldn't hire somebody.

to replace Tibido who hadn't done as much or more than Tibbs had done in the playoffs. Mike Brown checks that out. He comes from very good stock, right? You got Spurs and, of course, Steve Kerr. He's been a head coach. He's been a fairly less successful head coach. Do I care that he's like, yeah, I run towards X-Bit? Like, that's great, dude.

It's New York. They're crazy. Owner is crazy. But, again, it's opening press conference. let's just take a beat and see how it plays out. Doesn't have a perfect roster, got to be improved, and then they got to figure out, really it feels like, you know,

is the owner going to let the basketball people do their job? And then, oh, yeah, by the way, does Rick Brunson help them or hurt them as it appears? Again, this is just based on what I've heard and what we've seen with some former players. Does he have too much say with the coaching staff as an assistant, but also the father of your best player? I have a couple of points on this, which almost kind of conflict with each other, but I want to throw him at you.

Okay, so with Mike Brown, it's hard to say that he is a definitive upgrade over Tibido. So that's where the questions come into play and you start to go, why are you getting rid of a guy like Tibido when you don't have that absolute known coaching candidate? and obviously the way that they went about this whole process, essentially trying to poach all the top coaches that are currently already under contract with teams and got like EMEUDoka a huge raise and tried to go after Chris Finch and all this stuff. So you have a lot of questions about their approach.

Now, what I will say is with the Warriors, when they were coming up and they had Mark Jackson at their head coach, it had a lot of the same reaction, which was, how could you be getting rid of Mark Jackson? This team is finally having postseason success for the first time in a long time. And they ended up with Steve Kerr, who clearly did become an upgrade. Now, I know those aren't exact comps because Steve Kerr coming out of broadcasting, whereas Mike Brown is a lifelong coach with a somewhat proven track record.

But it just sort of feels like there is proof of concept that these teams have shown improvement, have gotten close, and it really is that one head coach move away from putting them over the top to get them to where they want to go. Yeah, I mean, I also think there's some personnel stuff. They've got to kind of figure out, right? No doubt, yeah. You know, I mean, Carlinthe Towns, we talked a little bit earlier about the NBA. We're talking about the Lakers, how the Lakers three best players are their three worst defenders.

Yeah. Can't do it, right? You can have one. Well, the Knicks, they're two best players. or two of their three best players if you put OG and Ninobe in there. Like Brunson struggles to guard because of his size

and, you know, he carries so much to load offensively. And then Carl Towns struggles to guard because it just doesn't move that well. Like, it's not what he does. He's a stretch five who can really pass and shoot. So, again, he's brought in

to improve their defense. And, you know, Tibbs is known as a defensive guy. I do think at some point in time, you are what your personnel is and are you going to move that personnel. Anyway, what were the other bullets you want to get to? Well, just that it, embracing the expectations to your point is it's sort of what you were saying is that I think the expectations are outweighed by their roster limitations. I don't think. Yes, yes, but here's the thing, okay.

Like Eastern Conference finals feels about the cap for this team. Now maybe next year because of the Halliburton injury and the Tatum injury, they actually do have a window where they can get in there. But it does feel like this team has basically capped out based off of realistic expectations for what they have.

No question. Again, I think Tim's got fired for a couple reasons. One, he doesn't play his bench. Now, it does. And then when he did play his bench, they played well. but again, whether or not that actually means anything, right? Because, you know, guys go by data and a long term that data would have played out. But whatever.

I think Tibbs, they struggled, he struggled to work in a group and to make the owner feel like he was at all even part of it. Right. I'm sure there were some players that they had that it didn't feel like they were part of Tibbs plans. And they can stab you in the back in terms of exit meetings and whatever. And then I think a lot of people thought, okay, the Celtics, Tatum gets hurt, and all we had to do is beat the Sixers, and we can't beat the Sixers. I mean, the Sixers, excuse me, the Pacers to get to the finals. And the time is now. The expectations are high, not just because they went to the finals, but because the Celtics, the Pacers, and the Bucks are at least a year away from competing because they've all lost one of their best players to an Achilles tear.

And, you know, who are the other teams, right? The Sixers who are held together by Scotch tape with Joel Embed. Right. And then there's the Knicks. So there are gargantuan expectations. Some of it's because of this year's success. But a lot of it is because I think most people think next year, the East really is wide open for a team like the Magic,

a team like the Knicks, a team like the Sixers. All right, we'll wrap up here with some NFL. The Denver Broncos, one of the support. prize teams last year getting into the playoffs with a rookie quarterback despite having to pay out that large dead cap hit for moving on from the Russell Wilson contract. Well, their wide receiver Marvin Mims, he says he's telling Sirius XM NFL radio, things are feeling different in the Mile High City these days. You can really feel that like the times are like changing for us, you know, and we're kind

of like people always like to say like a win now mode and, you know, with the way that things went last year. I mean, we were projected to be last in the league last year ended up making their wild cards. So the guys are here last year, they believe, and the guys are coming in, they want to make an impact too. So I think everyone's hungry. You feeling things are different for the Broncos this time around? Well, can we be honest about... Can we be honest about the AFC West, right? Who they cross over against is like... Okay. I'm a charger fan, you're a charger fan, right? But last year was supposed to be kind of a rebuild, reload, sort of year,

and they end up making the playoffs. Why? Well, because look who they crossed over against. You know? I mean, your schedule does matter. Yeah, Denver was at a last place schedule, so they benefited playing, you know, I think teams that were down in terms of their crossover.

So this year, I think it's going to be different. I think it'll be harder for that. division as a whole, right? There's when one division has three playoff teams and two of them, nobody thought would be playoff teams. Right. Totally. I think it tells you a little bit about who they crossed over against schedule-wise.

And you look at Denver, and I completely understand. I'm not going to be scheduled guy because we don't know who they play against, because you don't know who's going to be healthy when they play against them. And sometimes, you know, preseason predictions for whose good doesn't really fit. I will go against that And I will play the role of Schedule Guy for you There are just some teams on here On its surface

That look like they have some real soft spots They have the Titans and the Colts early You have to start the season Again should be you'd think 2 and 0 to start the year Exactly Take on the Chargers But then you get Chargers, Bengals, Eagles Again you get Jets and Giants at home

You get both New York teams right, then you go towards the back end of the schedule, maybe the Jags at the end of the year, who knows where they'll be at. So they're outside of, we know the division games are going to be tough, not just because they're division games, but we expect the division to be incredibly competitive this year.

But some of their non-division games, they were given some breaks, and it looks like it could be right in the mix for another 9-10 win season and we'll see if that's enough to get them back into the playoffs for a second straight year. Yeah, that's fair. But again, look at last year, okay, and be honest with yourself, right?

They beat Tampa. Tampa is a playoff team. But outside of that, they beat, this is all their wins. The Jets, the Raiders, the Saints, the Panthers, the Falcons, the Raiders, the Browns, the Colts, and then last game of the year when nobody played for Kansas City, they beat the Chiefs. Right? So what you're saying is.

They beat one good team all year, and then they beat the Chiefs at the end of the year when the Chiefs played their backups. Right. Again, so it doesn't mean that we diminish what they did, especially considering where they were, and you have a rookie quarterback. But it does paint kind of proper context

for what they're actually going up against. And that's Ryan Music with the News. Well, that's the news. And thanks for stopping by. The Heard Lye News. Chad Holmgren just signed a new Max extension. How big a risk is this for Oklahoma City? We'll discuss next.

I'm Doug Gottlieb. This is The Herd. One more Herd? The Herd streams 24 hours a day, seven days a week, within the IHeart Radio app. Search Herd to listen live or on demand whenever you'd like. Hey, it's us, the Jonas Brothers, and guess what? We have some big news.

What's the news, new? Huge news. We created our own podcast called, Hey, Jonas. We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to it. We're the first people to do podcasts.

Pretty, yeah, pretty wide. range of podcasts throughout there. But this one's extra special. So how do we actually come up with a name, Hey Jonas, guys? I honestly don't remember. I think it was on a call about what we should call it. Well, we were thinking I'm originally calling it

one of the early names of our band before Jonas Brothers. This is how you guys remember it going down? Yes. I have a very different memory of this. We were talking about a thing, a bit for the podcast, where people could call in and say, hey Jonas. and then I wrote down on my little notepad, Hey Jonas, and offered it up as a potential title for the podcast. But thanks for remembering that, guys.

Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and Headwere writer Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between

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lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise. Breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves, their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear.

The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context, and ask the questions everybody wants answered. Sports slice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to Sports Slice. radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slicelife 12 in the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. The French Open is one of the toughest tests in tennis.

And I know firsthand because I competed there myself. I'm Renee Stubbs. And on the Renee Stubbs tennis podcast, I'm breaking down everything happening at Roland Garris. Every match, every upset, and what it really takes to win on clay. Jen Chinch win. I mean, she went down at three to Rabakina. But I'm delighted. She's an outsider to win the French for me.

And she likes Clay. Listen, Lina Rubakina is arguably the best player in the world right now. And I actually can win on any surface. Because if she's serving, well, good luck. Consider this your court side seat to the French Open. Listen to the Renee Stubbs tennis podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHeart Women's Sports.

Doug Gottlieven for calling this to heard. Fox Sports Radio, Iheart Radio app. So the big news today in the NBA so far is Chet Holmgren agrees to a max extension for the 2025 NBA champion, Oklahoma City Thunder. Remember, this is Chet, of course, who had a good, not great playoff run, right? he average 15 a game of the playoffs, nine rebounds, two blocks, which obviously kind of plays to the real strength of what he does defensively. Offensively, he struggled to

shooting the ball at times, right? Shot below 30 from three. But kind of figured it out as he went, and they end up, they end up winning in game seven after Tyrese Hallburton goes down with a torn Achilles tendon. Now, For his career, Holmgren's been in the league technically three years, but he's only played one full season. That was going back to last year. This year, hurt his hip and only played 32 games.

So you have a guy who's 7-1, 210 pounds, three years in the league, only played one full season, and he just got a max extension. Earlier in the show, we were joined by Anthony Sondon. later from the athletic. He said this about what Chet's contract means to Oklahoma City. I mean, I think it's just checked the box that you knew was coming. But, you know, you're getting the next six years of Chet Holmgren's early prime into his prime. Sure, he's not your, you know, prototype number two certainly is a score. I think he's got higher upside there. But, I mean, he's a rim-protecting three-point shooter at seven feet tall. To me, like, you know,

that is a very valuable piece for a team that wants to win. with defense first. And you saw it in the play, you know, we can kind of at times, I certainly did, you know, their first playoff run together when they lost in the second round, even though they're the one seat. I kind of wondered if Jayley Williams and Chet Homer could be a legitimate number two, number three on a title team. Well, that question kind of was answered a month ago.

Well, yeah. I mean, yeah, I mean, they won. So it was answered. And I love the fact that Anthony knows what I've said on my show. Doug Gottlieb and for Colin have the Doug Gottlieb show that follows this one. It's like a lot of people talk about the offensive pieces and the spacing like, dude, Oklahoma City was built to be the best defensive team in the league. And then they have one great offensive player who kind of carries them,

a secondary, really, really good offensive player. And then they just kind of try and figure out the rest. And they run good offense. But personnel-wise, some of it's. because of youth and some of us just because they're made up of a defensive first mentality, they're never going to be at times the most beautiful offensive basketball, which don't have to be. Win with your defense.

So look, do I think Chet checks those boxes as a defensive weapon? He only protects the rim, but he's not perfect at it, but he can switch and guard the perimeter as well. Yes. And my guess would be his three-point shooting. should at some point in time improve over time and regain his confidence. Yes. But the fear is the injuries.

Right. Fear is the injuries. And you can say, hey, man, he's getting stronger and he's getting bigger. This is after being in a league three years, he weighs 208 pounds. Like you can try and throw weight on dudes, but it doesn't mean that it sticks. And you can say, eh, he's not going to get hurt, but he did. The other part to it, and this is really important, is I legitimately think that the guys in Oklahoma City love playing Oklahoma City. You don't have to worry about some of the other stuff.

You worry about in other places, right? The players are close. They are all about the same age. There is a great kind of unifying spirit. And Oklahoma City knows they can't go out and get big-name free agents because they won't stay. They got it. They're very understanding of who they are. franchise and where they are in the grand landscape of things.

Some guys just don't work there, but they won't ask for a hometown discount. Because really what they should go to, you'd think, you go to Jayla Williams, you go to Chathamonger and go, look, dude, you guys are going to be superstars. You're going to stay here forever. How about you save us some money? Because the production has been good and you think we'll get better. But when you only play a season and a half of three years, do you reward that with a max? You kind of have to if you're Oklahoma City, but should you have to?

I guess we'll find out. These are the things. His health is probably going to be the first determinant as to whether or not they can be a champion several times over. Okay, coming up next in the herd. Guess who's on the WNBA 2K cover? No, not her. We'll discuss next. I'm Doug Gottlie.

This is The Hurt. Hey guys, it's us. The Jonas Brothers. I'm Joe. I'm Kevin. And I'm Nick. And guess what? We created our own podcast called, Hey Jonas. We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it.

We just contributed to it out. We're the first people to do podcasts. We get to ask other people questions because we're sick and tired of being asked questions. Well, sick and tired is a strong way to put it. But, you know, tired and sick. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite.

Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and Friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the IHeart Radio app.

Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds.

I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app. Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, what's good, y'all? You're listening to Learn the Hardway with your favorite therapist and host, Kear Games. This space is about black men's experiences, having honest conversations that it's really not safe to have anywhere,

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